What is the Main Reason GB has not won a Super Bowl in the past 12 years ?

[Bretsky]

Thoughts Rats ?

[Bretsky]

Lack of Talent to get us to the next level ?

Lack of coaching/leadership ?

Lack of quality QB play in incredibly key playoff games ?

[NewsBruin]

I went with the highest on the orgy chart.

My transcontinental thought is that we lost some key years with Ted in cognitive decline and no one on the tiller to get top-of-the-league drafting and manage QB and head coach's head games. There were a lot of repeated frustrating instincts that got worse and worse over the seasons. Mike turtles on playcalling, so Aaron takes it upon himself to chuck the ball over the mountains. I wish there were someone who could have gotten them to change their approaches.

Also i believe (without any good stats to back me up) we overachieve on our OL drafting and development and underachieve on our DL drafting and development.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

I went with the highest on the orgy chart.

My transcontinental thought is that we lost some key years with Ted in cognitive decline and no one on the tiller to get top-of-the-league drafting and manage QB and head coach's head games. There were a lot of repeated frustrating instincts that got worse and worse over the seasons. Mike turtles on playcalling, so Aaron takes it upon himself to chuck the ball over the mountains. I wish there were someone who could have gotten them to change their approaches.

Also i believe (without any good stats to back me up) we overachieve on our OL drafting and development and underachieve on our DL drafting and development.

How you manage to move your mind from one continent to another without physically moving it from one continent to another is puzzling me. Are you an offspring of Professor X, and you’ve inherited his transcontinental mind mutant “disorder”?

[texaspackerbacker]

How about "none of the above" or maybe "all of the above"? Probably "luck" should also be a choice.

Whoever gets the blame probably should also get the credit for having such an overall great record over the same time period - which to me is infinitely more important.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

How about "none of the above" or maybe "all of the above"? Probably "luck" should also be a choice.

Whoever gets the blame probably should also get the credit for having such an overall great record over the same time period - which to me is infinitely more important.

“If you ain’t first, you’re last.” - Ricky Bobby

Sometimes playoffs heartbreaks fuck with the mind moreso than missing the playoffs altogether. Sometimes it is better to tank a season for the rights to draft a difference maker than to lose in the NFC Championship game.

That being said, Thompson’s incompetence at upgrading the D prevented the Packers from winning another ring during Butte’s prime years. Perry instead of hip hop safety Harrison Smith. Peprah, Jennings and Dix all couldn’t hold Collins’ jockstrap. Claymaker was forced to play ILB. Gunter covered Julio Jones.

Gutekunst’s refusal to draft diva rock catchers with premium picks, especially Metcalf and/or Brown prevented the Packers from winning it all during Butte’s “back nine.” Furthermore, the German Shepherd failed miserably to acquire OBJ. And, making matters worse, German Shepherd couldn’t draft a tight end worth a fuck.

Suffice it to say, Polar Bear and German Shepherd are the perpetrators behind the shameful nonexistence of a glorious Butte Dynasty.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

Talent, coaching, and luck..

[Bretsky]

How about "none of the above" or maybe "all of the above"? Probably "luck" should also be a choice.

Whoever gets the blame probably should also get the credit for having such an overall great record over the same time period - which to me is infinitely more important.



Tex Tex Tex. You know my polls don’t throw fluffy slow pitch softball questions out there like Pattycakes questions he tosses out to the media whore :))

[run pMc]

Main reason? It's really, really hard to do.
And yes, requires luck with injuries and matchups.

Marino won zero. Brees got one. Kelly got to FOUR and won none. Rivers never got there. And yet Eli Manning.
There are plenty of franchises who have had great QBs and either never went, never won, or only won one SB.

[ThunderDan]

As I look back at it, in the beginning I think it was luck. Towards the end of ARod's career, I think it is all on TT/Gute.

[call_me_ishmael]

Well if they had superior talent to everyone else, they'd have won, no, so it falls on the GM in my opinion. Organizations win super bowls - and they do so by putting great players at the important positions and largely going all in when the talent is close.

I think the Packers have been really close several times but always a player or two away. Why didn't they go and get that player? The 2014 and 2021 (the one that lost to the Bucs) teams were absolutely good enough to win it all. 2014 especially. I'd like to see the Packers be more aggressive in player procurement. I do think they're more aggressive under Gooter but still not as aggressive as I'd like when there close. It is insane to me we started Dynamo Dean Lowry when we were so close to two super bowls, and never had a #2 to Adams during that time. They probably would have won a Super Bowl and possibly two if they had difference makers at those spots.

Take Robert Quinn on the Eagles. He didn't cost much, yet made an outsized impact. Why are the Packers always asleep instead of making those moves?

[bobblehead]

Bad luck and the perfect storm. I mean, I blame fat mike for the seattle loss where he went into a shell and counted possessions. I put the majority on fat mike, but there is other blame to be shared. TT drafted poorly in his latter years. I think Rodgers has shrunk in the MiLF years, especially in clutch moments. Officials really fucked us against TB. We lost several NFCC games with fluke plays. Micah Hyde letting a pick 6 through his hands against Kapernick. Guys fumbling who never fumble seems to be a regular theme.

I would like to see a marquee DC who preaches fast physical football instead of worshipping at the religion of "being in the right spot". We have hired retread after retread for DCs. Not retreads who had dominant defenses either, but retreads who had "ok" seasons to go along with bad ones.

Again, I put a lot at M3s feet, but just a combination of things, and rarely the same thing twice. Its frustrating.

[bobblehead]

As I look back at it, in the beginning I think it was luck. Towards the end of ARod's career, I think it is all on TT/Gute.

Did goot NOT call PI on that pick at the end of the half vs. TB? Did Gute go into a shell and NOT run for the endzone against TB? That was a championship team that got fucked for reasons that are NOT gutes fault at all. Gutes has been GM for a very short time and he inherited probably the leanest of TT teams due to TTs decline. I'll write him off if we trade Rodgers and don't have a winning record (because he picked Love, and there is enough talent to win 9 games without Rodgers.)

[bobblehead]

Well if they had superior talent to everyone else, they'd have won, no, so it falls on the GM in my opinion. Organizations win super bowls - and they do so by putting great players at the important positions and largely going all in when the talent is close.

I think the Packers have been really close several times but always a player or two away. Why didn't they go and get that player? The 2014 and 2021 (the one that lost to the Bucs) teams were absolutely good enough to win it all. 2014 especially. I'd like to see the Packers be more aggressive in player procurement. I do think they're more aggressive under Gooter but still not as aggressive as I'd like when there close. It is insane to me we started Dynamo Dean Lowry when we were so close to two super bowls, and never had a #2 to Adams during that time. They probably would have won a Super Bowl and possibly two if they had difference makers at those spots.

Take Robert Quinn on the Eagles. He didn't cost much, yet made an outsized impact. Why are the Packers always asleep instead of making those moves?

But in your last sentence you negate your point. The eagles had superior talent and still lost. And they made a couple moves like Quinn, while the Chefs made none.

[MadScientist]

TE's dogshit for a decade. Almost no draft capital for WR. The problems start at the top. There was some bad luck with the injuries to Collins and Shields, and bumblefuck on the onside kick, but the main issue has been talent acquisition.

[Fritz]

I went with the highest on the orgy chart.

My transcontinental thought is that we lost some key years with Ted in cognitive decline and no one on the tiller to get top-of-the-league drafting and manage QB and head coach's head games. There were a lot of repeated frustrating instincts that got worse and worse over the seasons. Mike turtles on playcalling, so Aaron takes it upon himself to chuck the ball over the mountains. I wish there were someone who could have gotten them to change their approaches.

Also i believe (without any good stats to back me up) we overachieve on our OL drafting and development and underachieve on our DL drafting and development.

Lots of good posts here, but I think this one hits on one of the big reasons that, over time, the Packers were not more competetive in terms of the playoffs: Ted Thompson's cognitive decline. APB and a couple others are crass in simply saying Ted sucked, but his cognitive decline over the last few years led to the issues you mention above. As Bobble I think points out, in individual games - like the 2014 Seattle loss - it's not on Ted, but in terms of organization, his cognitive decline really caused problems.

Which leads me to my bigger point: that the real responsibility rests with Mark Murphy. He's the person who really ought to have gently encouraged Ted to go back to scouting much earlier than he did. He's the one who's supposed to see how the GM is doing and to make corrections if there is a major problem - and there was. And it was not that hard to see, if you look back over some of the Packerrat threads of those years.

So I blame him. He chose stability and not making any changes when it was becoming readily apparent TT was no longer at the top of his game. And to win in the nfl, most everyone, especially the GM, has to be at the top of his game.

So I vote for Mark Murphy.

[run pMc]

I actually don't blame Gute. TT had some bad drafts that set them back, but they have had plenty of talent with one recent exception.
The WR talent went dry after they stopped picking WRs higher - Adams was the last Day 2 pick until Amari. I think with the how the FA market is for WRs you have to draft them constantly, just like you do with secondary and trenches.

All that aside, they have had enough talent to get to the NFCCG multiple times with M3 and MLF, including two in a row with MLF. ST cost them against SF, and even this year people were talking about this defense being Top 5 in talent.

What jumps out to me are individual games, or moments in those games... which falls on either the coaches or the players. They have failed to rise to the occasion in clutch moments. Game 17 vs. DET, win and you're in, and the visiting team is the winner. Not blaming just Rodgers, it's the whole team.

I still think it's really really hard to reach and win a Super Bowl. So much has to go right for it to happen in terms of injuries, unheralded players stepping up, star players playing like stars, coaches pushing the right buttons, lucky bounces, etc.

[texaspackerbacker]

“If you ain’t first, you’re last.” - Ricky Bobby

Sometimes playoffs heartbreaks fuck with the mind moreso than missing the playoffs altogether. Sometimes it is better to tank a season for the rights to draft a difference maker than to lose in the NFC Championship game.

That being said, Thompson’s incompetence at upgrading the D prevented the Packers from winning another ring during Butte’s prime years. Perry instead of hip hop safety Harrison Smith. Peprah, Jennings and Dix all couldn’t hold Collins’ jockstrap. Claymaker was forced to play ILB. Gunter covered Julio Jones.

Gutekunst’s refusal to draft diva rock catchers with premium picks, especially Metcalf and/or Brown prevented the Packers from winning it all during Butte’s “back nine.” Furthermore, the German Shepherd failed miserably to acquire OBJ. And, making matters worse, German Shepherd couldn’t draft a tight end worth a fuck.

Suffice it to say, Polar Bear and German Shepherd are the perpetrators behind the shameful nonexistence of a glorious Butte Dynasty.

You make a good case for the GMs to blame/deficient talent in some positions. I still say a lot of that is luck - blame based on hindsight. I wasn't gonna vote in this poll, but now I might for the GMs.

The bottom line, though, is that it's the SEASON - the RECORD that is important, not the damn Super Bowl. Today, just like every Wednesday all season, the game is history, rapidly getting out of people's minds whether you're for the winner or the loser or in our case, neither. Another week or two, and people will have a hard time remembering who won the damn game or even played in it. Going 13-4 or 14-3 or whatever is far better and more significant than one great day then mostly forgotten - which is the Super Bowl.

[The Shadow]

Defense.

[call_me_ishmael]

But in your last sentence you negate your point. The eagles had superior talent and still lost. And they made a couple moves like Quinn, while the Chefs made none.

They lost true, but at least they got there. Can't win if you don't get to the game and the Packers never get there. I disagree the Chiefs didn't make any moves. They totally revamped their OL and DL a few years back after losing the super bowl. In addition, Frank Clark was a trade, Tyrann Mathieu was an FA, Frank Brown was a trade, etc etc.

The other thing worth mentioning is the Chiefs just drafted better. Instead of taking Myers who sorta sucks, they took Creed Humprey who was an second team all-pro. I don't know the inside and out of their roster but they aggressively went after players that would help them. Granted, they had Mahomes on a rookie deal so they had flexibility.

It's not as simple as either of us are making it out to be, but I think the stark reality is a combination of ARod choking paired with they were just outmanned come playoff time. The GMs just weren't good enough outside of 2010 and 2014.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

You make a good case for the GMs to blame/deficient talent in some positions. I still say a lot of that is luck - blame based on hindsight. I wasn't gonna vote in this poll, but now I might for the GMs.

The bottom line, though, is that it's the SEASON - the RECORD that is important, not the damn Super Bowl. Today, just like every Wednesday all season, the game is history, rapidly getting out of people's minds whether you're for the winner or the loser or in our case, neither. Another week or two, and people will have a hard time remembering who won the damn game or even played in it. Going 13-4 or 14-3 or whatever is far better and more significant than one great day then mostly forgotten - which is the Super Bowl.

What kind of twisted logic are you chirping? According to your logic, going 17-0 in the regular season and laying an egg in the playoffs is superior to winning the Super Bowl with, say, a 9-8 regular season record.

Trust me, no one here, except maybe you, remembers the Packers going 15-1 in 2011.

But we all have not forgotten 2010: Packers won in the City of Racist Italians in week 1 for the first time in eons; Donald Lee’s fumble in Washington costed J-Mike his season; Butte stupidly did not slide at Detroit, costing Pack that game and the next one against New England (although Flynn played well); D-Jax’s walk off punt-6 allowed Pack to control its so-called destiny; The Lost City of Atlanta suffered its biggest defeat since Sherman marched there and burned it to the ground; Butte and Claymaker rising the lame WWE Championship belt. Etc.

In the end, it’s all about the ring.

[bobblehead]

So the one case if the center proves they draft better? I won't delve into myers being a ZBS center vs. creed being a power gap center. I'll just ask you to compare sky moore to christian watson.

[Joemailman]

The issue as I see it is that the Packers have invested much more on the defensive side of the football than on offense with relatively little to show for it. Of the 13 1st round draft picks since 2011, 11 were on defense and 2 on offense.

Of the 14 2nd round picks, 6 were on defense and 8 on offense. In addition, most of the key FA additions were on defense. Whether the biggest issue has been talent evaluation or coaching is hard to say. I don't think it skews heavily in one direction.

[Sparkey]

In the McCarthy years, it goes down to the head coach. But, not because of conservative play calling. It goes to the HC because of his inability to hold coaches accountable. Dom Capers should have never lasted as long as he did in GB. Also, the crap coaches trotted out on special teams for years on end is utterly unfathomable. The difference between winning and losing in the NFL is so small that coaches can make all the difference.

[call_me_ishmael]

So the one case if the center proves they draft better? I won't delve into myers being a ZBS center vs. creed being a power gap center. I'll just ask you to compare sky moore to christian watson.

Sure, Watson is better. What about the rest of the draft picks? I broke it down the other day. Gooter is largely sucking at drafting aside from R1. He needs to do better. Let's frame the discussion like this? What teams have worse GMs than Gooter? Shoot, if we're being honest, I think he's in the bottom half certainly.

[ThunderDan]

Sure, Watson is better. What about the rest of the draft picks? I broke it down the other day. Gooter is largely sucking at drafting aside from R1. He needs to do better. Let's frame the discussion like this? What teams have worse GMs than Gooter? Shoot, if we're being honest, I think he's in the bottom half certainly.

Before you make silly blanket statements like this you need to look at every team's roster and draft. The average NFL player doesn't make it 3 full seasons. I remember a long time ago trying to show how great TT was at drafting verses other teams. I gave up after looking at 3 NFL rosters. NFL rosters churn constantly. You just gotta hope you can catch 2 or 3 draft picks a year and that can be the difference between the Super Bowl and 8-9.

[call_me_ishmael]

Before you make silly blanket statements like this you need to look at every team's roster and draft. The average NFL player doesn't make it 3 full seasons. I remember a long time ago trying to show how great TT was at drafting verses other teams. I gave up after looking at 3 NFL rosters. NFL rosters churn constantly. You just gotta hope you can catch 2 or 3 draft picks a year and that can be the difference between the Super Bowl and 8-9.

I agree but I don't think Gooter is even close to 2-3 contributors per 7 picks. It is closer to 1 to 1.5.

[Fritz]

The issue as I see it is that the Packers have invested much more on the defensive side of the football than on offense with relatively little to show for it. Of the 13 1st round draft picks since 2011, 11 were on defense and 2 on offense.

Of the 14 2nd round picks, 6 were on defense and 8 on offense. In addition, most of the key FA additions were on defense. Whether the biggest issue has been talent evaluation or coaching is hard to say. I don't think it skews heavily in one direction.

I suppose you could break down the picks themselves and see who panned out and who did not. But you'd think that at least part of this is coaching. But maybe not. Maybe the guys they picked did not pan out often enough.

Damarious Randall and Quentin Rollins in 2015 were two of the worst. Kevin King, not so good. Josh Jones blew chunks. Montravious Adams in the third round, a big nothing-burger. Kenny Clark was a very good pick. Ha Ha Clinton-Dicks flamed out after about two years, a big mystery there. Datone Jones sucked ass. Nick Perry was pretty okay but not great, Jerel Worthy also sucked ass, ala Datone Jones. Casey Heyward was good but they let him walk. Mike Neal never emerged as a difference-maker. Morgan Burnett, a third-rounder, was good. BJ Raji was good but only for about two or three years. Clay Matthews was great.Pat Lee from 2008 is well, not remembered, so clearly he sucked. Justin Harrell never did get un-injured so he never did a thing. AJ Hawk was a disappointment as the #5 overall pick, at least to me. Nick Collins was great.

Hmm. Having looked them all up, I'd have to conclude Ted's acumen in drafting defensive players was less than stellar.

[King Friday]

My thought is that the GM position is most responsible. While the talent on the roster has been better than most in the league on a consistent basis, there always seemed to be a gaping hole somewhere that did not get plugged over the past decade. Ted refused to utilize free agency, and Gute has not proven himself to be as capable of a drafter as Ted. Neither were poor performers, but you need to be very good over a period of time to build a championship roster.

[texaspackerbacker]

What kind of twisted logic are you chirping? According to your logic, going 17-0 in the regular season and laying an egg in the playoffs is superior to winning the Super Bowl with, say, a 9-8 regular season record.

Trust me, no one here, except maybe you, remembers the Packers going 15-1 in 2011.

But we all have not forgotten 2010: Packers won in the City of Racist Italians in week 1 for the first time in eons; Donald Lee’s fumble in Washington costed J-Mike his season; Butte stupidly did not slide at Detroit, costing Pack that game and the next one against New England (although Flynn played well); D-Jax’s walk off punt-6 allowed Pack to control its so-called destiny; The Lost City of Atlanta suffered its biggest defeat since Sherman marched there and burned it to the ground; Butte and Claymaker rising the lame WWE Championship belt. Etc.

In the end, it’s all about the ring.

Maybe I'm getting old, but I'm kinda hazy on any of that - water over the dam IMO. Hell yeah, I'd take 17 wonderful satisfying wins and just one shitty loss over 9 satisfying wins plus maybe several in the playoffs but 8 miserable losses. And yeah, 15-1 was great. Fuck the damn ring.

[run pMc]

Sure, Watson is better. What about the rest of the draft picks? I broke it down the other day. Gooter is largely sucking at drafting aside from R1. He needs to do better. Let's frame the discussion like this? What teams have worse GMs than Gooter? Shoot, if we're being honest, I think he's in the bottom half certainly.

Look at the drafts for Chicago and Minnesota. Detroit has had plenty of whiffs too. Disagree that Gute is "bottom half certainly".

Remember that this team recently had the #1 seed in the playoffs and still lost. I don't think the GM is the biggest problem.

[run pMc]

Maybe I'm getting old, but I'm kinda hazy on any of that - water over the dam IMO. Hell yeah, I'd take 17 wonderful satisfying wins and just one shitty loss over 9 satisfying wins plus maybe several in the playoffs but 8 miserable losses. And yeah, 15-1 was great. Fuck the damn ring.

Wow.

GB has the Titletown nickname for a reason. Wolf's "fart in the wind" quote lives on for a reason too.
I'd take a 'riding a tidal wave of momentum' to a SB win season over a 15-2 first game upset/flop anyday. Imagine Rodgers gets hurt in Game 1, Love comes in and keeps them in the hunt at 4-6 and Rodgers comes back to get them to 10-7 and they cruise thru the playoffs to be NFL Champs. You're telling me you wouldn't take that? Mind boggling.

Racking up wins with no playoff success has been maddening and is basically what we've seen for 13 years. I guess you have nothing to complain about then.

[SudsMcBucky]

It's all 'bout the Ships!!! I'll take a 10-7 or 9-8 regular with an Owl over 15-1 and no ship EVERY SINGLE TIME.

[texaspackerbacker]

I never said I wouldn't be pleased to go all the way - to the SB and win it. I just said I'd be MORE pleased to have 17-0 or close to it in the regular season. One bad day in the playoffs or SB to me is no worse than any other bad day i.e. a loss during the season.

I can see how "racking up wins with no playoff success has been maddening" to some people. I suppose on some level it is to me too, but I'm more of a "glass is half full" kind of guy - I prefer the long pleasant journey - even if it goes off the cliff at the end hahahahaha.

Not to channel APB or aanything, but that's life. I prefer being a little bit lazy and comfortable and never getting rich to working my ass off most of my life to get rich. I can see and even respect others having the opposite attitude, but it's not that way for me.

[call_me_ishmael]

Look at the drafts for Chicago and Minnesota. Detroit has had plenty of whiffs too. Disagree that Gute is "bottom half certainly".

Remember that this team recently had the #1 seed in the playoffs and still lost. I don't think the GM is the biggest problem.

Yeah, it's fair. When you actually go through the list of GMs, I agree he probably isn't the bottom half.

I think these peeps are better:

Bill Belichick - Better than Gooter (championships)
Eric Decosta - Ravens are a consistently equally good org despite never having a QB
Howie Roseman - Eagles are consistently one of the best teams in the league over many, many years now.
Les Snead - Took over a team without a QB and made them consistently successful. He is willing to mortgage the future to win and is aggressive about it.
Brandon Beane - Put together a great team in Buffalo and has drafted very well
Brett Veach - 6 straight AFC championship games, has taken the old Packers dude roster and has continued to maintain/improve it
Chris Ballard - Put together a great team around Andy Luck set up for years of success and then had the QB leave in the middle of it. Tough to recover from but I 100% believe this dude can really draft
Jon Robinson - Put together a deep TEN team despite a subpar QB
Jerry Jones - No QB but that team has way more talent than the Packers and drafts much better
John Lynch - Best roster in football by far despite no QB

In the same class at Gooter:
John Schneider - I don't know how I feel about this to be honest. Maybe it's a push? John got his team there twice and did a super quick rebuild.
Joe Douglas - Jets looking formidable for years to come now

I guess that's probably it. I think Gooter is like ~10-14 in that range I guess.

My view of Gooter is this:
1. Great at first round of draft
2. Ass at other rounds
3. Great with FA signing (How rare is it that 4 premium FA signings last 3 years with the team and 2 last 4+ years, very very rare)
4. Probably too quick to play his guys, paying Campbell was a mistake IMO

[texaspackerbacker]

"No QB" in Dallas? I guess you don't like Dak. In his first couple years, he was almost like Rodgers for being careful not to throw picks. Then he degenerated - my suspicion on that is Kellen Moore told him - stupidly - to take more risks. Without Moore, maybe he will get back to damn good - maybe that's McCarthy's thinking too in letting Moore go.

I suspect LUCK has more to do with who is good and who is not as GMs.

[run pMc]

Not disagreeing, but I have some comments:

I think Belichick is a fantastic coach but a below average GM. (Look at his drafts)
Jon Robinson got fired mid season.
A lot of people don't think much of Chris Ballard, Indy is kind of a mess
Ravens most definitely have a QB, assuming they pay him. Their FO has been very good for decades IMO and are probably Top 5.
Snead went for it and won, but the Rams are going to be a dumpster fire for years between cap space and no draft picks. Worth it for the ring if it's a not deep hole to dig out from. I'm not convinced the stars-and-scrubs formula works if your stars are well into the aging-stage.

Agree that Dak is at least an average to above average QB. I don't think he's elite or can carry a team but he's good enough to win with. Jerrah used to be bad, he's gotten better. Sucking enough to get players like Ceedee Lamb and Micah Parsons helps.

Gute has had some draft missteps -- as any who are a GM for years will -- but consider he's done pretty well in FA (Smiths, Amos, Turner) and picking guys off other teams -- DeVondre, Rasul, Jarren Reed was ok, Rudy Ford, etc.
There are definitely better GM than Gute, but I think he's upper half, not bottom half.

[call_me_ishmael]

I don't think Dak is very good, no. I think Jerry will look to move on when there is a good QB available. I would be shocked if he didn't put in a call to Brady and probably a few to the Black Birds in Maryland.

I go back and forth on Rodgers. The Packers didn't move on from Favre for just another guy, they moved on for a guy they were damn sure was going to be very, very good. Would they have done it if Rodgers was just another middle-of-the-road guy? I honestly don't think they would have. Would the Niners gone to Steve Young if his last name was Burleigh? Shoot I don't think they would have done that either. Would the Colts have moved on from Peyton if they didn't get the best prospect at the position since Peyton? I don't think they would have and I think that was a very difficult choice for them to make even so.

I also think an interesting case study is the Saints. They had a back-up that had some pretty good success as a starter in Theodore Bridgewater. They had him as the back-up for multiple years. Did they move on from Brees for him? They did not, because he was not a stud despite being a young guy with a somewhat good track record.

I guess what I am ultimately saying is to me it seems more like the deciding factor in if a team moves on from a great player is the potential and quality of the next guy more so than the age or annoyingness or the current guy. That's a long winded way of saying that unless the Packers think Jordan Love is going to be really good or great, and not just pretty good or middle of the road, I don't think they will move on.

Maybe Gooter really was speaking the truth when he stated that Rodgers (which I assume encapsulates the entire package of Rodgers, the money he is due, the craziness, etc) gives them a better chance to win than Love (and his entire package heyyoo I heard it when I said it)

We shall see what happens, but right now I am currently leaning towards Rodgers returning.

[Tony Oday]

Run Defense

[SudsMcBucky]

I don't think Dak is very good, no. I think Jerry will look to move on when there is a good QB available. I would be shocked if he didn't put in a call to Brady and probably a few to the Black Birds in Maryland.
.

No, Jerry is NOT moving from Dak this offseason, even IF a good QB is available. If he cut or traded Dak, they would take an $89 million dead cap hit. If they wait til next year, it's much more manageable, although not ideal, at almost $40 million.

[Joemailman]

Run Defense

Some games. But in the games that eliminated the Packers the last 3 years, the run defense has either been very good (2020) or decent (2021, 2022). The failures of the Packers passing offense, especially in the 4th quarter, has been a bigger problem.

[MadtownPacker]

Gaslighting, fuken poll by a bathwater sipping cretin. Where is the D. ALL OF THE ABOVE option?

[mgordo]

Brandon Fucking Bostick

[bobblehead]

I agree but I don't think Gooter is even close to 2-3 contributors per 7 picks. It is closer to 1 to 1.5.

If thats what you think you should back it up by breaking down the drafts. You should explain how having 2 starters from each of his drafts while winning 13 games 3 years in a row equates 1-1.5 contributors.

[bobblehead]

Brandon Fucking Bostick
New guy with a great post. I put that on M3 as well though.

[texaspackerbacker]

A lot of good reasons hahahaha. I say again, though, you can boil it down to L U C K - anytime a few plays in a playoff game go bad, you can call that L U C K. Doing well enough to get to those rotten losses in the playoffs, on the other hand, that takes good personnel - a competent (more likely LUCKY) GM, a GOAT QB, at least borderline competent (often lucky there too) Coach and his assistants. In other words, the big deal is the 13, 14, whatever regular season wins that get you into position that counts.

[Bretsky]

F'ck Luck ;)

Luck is nothing but a cop out reason to be able to say you are never wrong

[Bretsky]

I am happy my poll is seeing so much action. I enjoy arguments and entertainment in here.

I honestly don't know what to think.

On one hand, I think there were a couple years where we had the best all around team in the NFL. I'd probably look at those two years and say one was sub par coaching and they other was shit QB play as main reason's we underachieved

But y'all also know me well enough to know I've pounded the table year after year after year after year to draft a WR in round two because the motherload of F'ck ups was not giving Devante Adams a legit number two WR to work with. Think Tee Higgins as well as many more we failed to get when we just needed one more weapon to get open when we had 4 shots against San Fran. For that I say nice job Gutebag....welll bad QB play in second half there too.

That's what makes this a Pot Stirrin Poll; it's a toughie

[call_me_ishmael]

If thats what you think you should back it up by breaking down the drafts. You should explain how having 2 starters from each of his drafts while winning 13 games 3 years in a row equates 1-1.5 contributors.

http://packerrats.com/showthread.php?32568-Official-Superb-Owl-LVII-Discussion-Thread&p=1131396&viewfull=1#post1131396

[NewsBruin]

Not disagreeing, but I have some comments:

I think Belichick is a fantastic coach but a below average GM. (Look at his drafts.

I remember reading at least a decade ago about some consolidated scouting service that all but four NFL teams subscribed to. Two of the four were the Raiders and the Patriots, and that joke just writes itself.

Bill has always seemed bullheaded about taking the non-consensus small school reach in the first round. With the exception of Randy Moss, he's never wanted to take an "athletic" WR (until Tyquan Thorton). He'd rather scrap with a twitchy-small white guy like Amendola, Edelman, Welker, or Woodhead. Maybe he doesn't want egos. Maybe it's exploiting market inefficiencies. Maybe it's just "sportsmanship" or not having a #1 for other teams to gameplan. Maybe they'll just do things that other receivers won't. Don't ever pick up a New England offensive player for your fantasy roster.

[HarveyWallbangers]

F'ck Luck ;)

Luck is nothing but a cop out reason to be able to say you are never wrong

Not really. It takes luck to win a Super Bowl. Almost every year the Super Bowl winner had luck go there way in the playoffs. Brandon Bostick vs Seattle, questionable non-defensive holding calls vs Tampa Bay (not so much the call on Kevin King, but the numerous holds against our guys), and blocked punt vs San Fran is where things went against us.

[MadScientist]

Not really. It takes luck to win a Super Bowl. Almost every year the Super Bowl winner had luck go there way in the playoffs. Brandon Bostick vs Seattle, questionable non-defensive holding calls vs Tampa Bay (not so much the call on Kevin King, but the numerous holds against our guys), and blocked punt vs San Fran is where things went against us.

None of those are luck. Those are a mix of bad players and bad coaching. Bostik was told to block a guy and let the good hands guy behind him get the ball. He didn't. King and others needed to play the way the refs call the game. They study the refs every week, and know the tendencies. Blocked punt and the rest of the special ed teams that year was also on the coach and players. Talented and well coached teams create their own luck.

[bobblehead]

http://packerrats.com/showthread.php?32568-Official-Superb-Owl-LVII-Discussion-Thread&p=1131396&viewfull=1#post1131396

Gee, you proved we weren't the ONE team that won the owl. I guess that proves Gutes drafts suck and he is shit.

[bobblehead]

I'll do it one more time for those who pretend I never have before.

2018 Jaire and MVS. 2 starters. Plus added 2019 draft capital
2019 Gary and Jenkins. Savage as well. Savage disappointed this year, but thats 3 starters on teams that won 13 games.
2020 Love, Dillon and Runyan. A good starter, a time share RB and the future QB. Love will tell the final story on this being either slightly below average or great.
2021 Stokes and Myers both started for a team that won 13 games. Other contributors still on roster.
2022 imo the best draft yet. Time will tell how good. Solid contributors with a decent future are Wyatt, Walker, Watson, Doubs, Tom and Enagbare. Overall just too early to grade though.

[sharpe1027]

The GM controls the coaches and players. If the coaches or players are responsible, that's still on the GM for chosing them in the first place.

[call_me_ishmael]

I'll do it one more time for those who pretend I never have before.

2018 Jaire and MVS. 2 starters. Plus added 2019 draft capital
2019 Gary and Jenkins. Savage as well. Savage disappointed this year, but thats 3 starters on teams that won 13 games.
2020 Love, Dillon and Runyan. A good starter, a time share RB and the future QB. Love will tell the final story on this being either slightly below average or great.
2021 Stokes and Myers both started for a team that won 13 games. Other contributors still on roster.
2022 imo the best draft yet. Time will tell how good. Solid contributors with a decent future are Wyatt, Walker, Watson, Doubs, Tom and Enagbare. Overall just too early to grade though.

We few things differently for certain but I do believe that 2022 has the potential to be the best one. I like to use "agreed to second contract" as the metric as teams normally don't let good young players go who have been established in their progrem for 4+ years. That is highly unusual that someone worth getting a contract doesn't get one. Which is why FA is almost always dudes that are cut.

[Joemailman]

The GM controls the coaches and players. If the coaches or players are responsible, that's still on the GM for chosing them in the first place.

The GM doesn't control the coaches. Gute doesn't have total control over the football operations that Thompson and Wolf did. He can't fire MLF. And all indications are MLF hires his assistants.

[run pMc]

The GM doesn't control the coaches. Gute doesn't have total control over the football operations that Thompson and Wolf did. He can't fire MLF. And all indications are MLF hires his assistants.

This is true. Gute and MLF report to Murphy, i.e., MLF doesn't report to Gute. Gute is responsible for acquiring the players, MLF is responsible for his coaches and the execution of the players.
MLF was likely "encouraged" by Murphy to keep Pettine, but aside from that it's been his guys. Whether it's the coaches or the GM who is more responsible for the last few seasons of 13+ wins is not an either-or thing. I think it's a team with talented players.

FWIW, I'm not a fan of the current structure. HC should be hired and report to GM IMO, but whatever.

[Fritz]

The GM controls the coaches and players. If the coaches or players are responsible, that's still on the GM for chosing them in the first place.

And it's on the team president to make sure the GM is doing the job. Murphy turned a blind eye to Thompson's cognitive decline. That cost this team for a few years.

I think the poll needs an option to vote for Mark Murphy as the reason for the lack of SB's in the Rodgers era. Not all on him - that Seattle game sits with Fat Mike - but a few years after that it was becoming clear, even to the public, that TT was slipping, and Murphy waited and waited and did nothing until things got pretty damn bad. And it wasn't as if he did Ted any favors.

[call_me_ishmael]

This is true. Gute and MLF report to Murphy, i.e., MLF doesn't report to Gute. Gute is responsible for acquiring the players, MLF is responsible for his coaches and the execution of the players.
MLF was likely "encouraged" by Murphy to keep Pettine, but aside from that it's been his guys. Whether it's the coaches or the GM who is more responsible for the last few seasons of 13+ wins is not an either-or thing. I think it's a team with talented players.

FWIW, I'm not a fan of the current structure. HC should be hired and report to GM IMO, but whatever.

Murphy is the general manager of the football org. Gooter is the roster guy. GM in name only.

[King Friday]

I agree entirely on the second contract really determining if a drafted player was impactful and a great draft pick…at least for most positions. RB is a tough call, as few players at that position will be worthy of a second contract. To me, a guy like Dillon can be a great pick even if he is only around for 4 years.

If you say that a team needs 2 great/impactful picks a year, Gute’s drafts have been lacking. I’ll give him a slight pass in that he’s been picking very late most of the time, which certainly adds to the degree of difficulty. I’ll say that Jaire, Jenkins, Gary and Dillon were all great picks. Jury is still out on Runyan, Stokes and Love. To me, Love is going to have to become a Pro Bowl caliber starter to justify his selection given what it has now cost the Packers in cap space issues and opportunity cost in immediately improving a title contender. I don’t see Myers or Savage as being great picks. They are both reasonable contributors, but those are picks that any GM can fall into by just throwing darts at a board.

2021 was a poor draft, and that more than anything else is what caused the team to regress when some FAs flew the coop.

[call_me_ishmael]

I just stumbled across this on Reddit. Somebody else did a data analysis on Gooter that concluded he is the worst drafter. I wouldn’t go that far as when he hits, he gets a home run.

https://www.reddit.com/r/GreenBayPackers/comments/1155ewn/analyzing_brian_gutekunsts_performance_compared/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

[ThunderDan]

I just stumbled across this on Reddit. Somebody else did a data analysis on Gooter that concluded he is the worst drafter. I wouldn’t go that far as when he hits, he gets a home run.

https://www.reddit.com/r/GreenBayPackers/comments/1155ewn/analyzing_brian_gutekunsts_performance_compared/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

From the article you quoted.

TLDR

Who knows if this means anything. It's all pretty contingent on how much stock you have in this wAV metric from PFR. But at least based on this data and methodology, Gutey has performed worst than most other Packers GMs and is tied for worst among GMs in the NFL with a similar tenure.

[sharpe1027]

The GM doesn't control the coaches. Gute doesn't have total control over the football operations that Thompson and Wolf did. He can't fire MLF. And all indications are MLF hires his assistants.

I didn't realize this. Thanks!

[bobblehead]

I just stumbled across this on Reddit. Somebody else did a data analysis on Gooter that concluded he is the worst drafter. I wouldn’t go that far as when he hits, he gets a home run.

https://www.reddit.com/r/GreenBayPackers/comments/1155ewn/analyzing_brian_gutekunsts_performance_compared/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

I could spin this 10 ways. I could also simply say its a miracle they won more games than all those other GMs.

[call_me_ishmael]

I could spin this 10 ways. I could also simply say its a miracle they won more games than all those other GMs.


Aaron Rodgers.

[bobblehead]

Now you're starting to sound like Tex. When we win, its all Aaron Rodgers, when we lose its because no one got Rodgers enough help.

[Bretsky]

Now you're starting to sound like Tex. When we win, its all Aaron Rodgers, when we lose its because no one got Rodgers enough help.


I admit I give Rodges a ton of Credit for putting the team on his back with the MVP seasons and that blew our record up

and

I give him a ton of blame for his shit play when we needed him most on several, several playofff losses.

I don't think it's that off to say Rodgers took at 9=10 win team to 13 wins. Add in often our division is complete shit and maybe our "regular season" record was way better than our overall talent

[call_me_ishmael]

Now you're starting to sound like Tex. When we win, its all Aaron Rodgers, when we lose its because no one got Rodgers enough help.

Aaron and Devante then. They stunk this year because the top heavy team lost a top heavy player and another fell off among several other reasons off course. But those are the big ones.

[bobblehead]

I admit I give Rodges a ton of Credit for putting the team on his back with the MVP seasons and that blew our record up

and

I give him a ton of blame for his shit play when we needed him most on several, several playofff losses.

I don't think it's that off to say Rodgers took at 9=10 win team to 13 wins. Add in often our division is complete shit and maybe our "regular season" record was way better than our overall talent

A 9-10 win team is a far stretch from "worst drafting GM in the league"

[texaspackerbacker]

As so often happens, you're both pretty much correct/the truth is somewhere between the extremes. Hell yeah, Aaron Rodgers, the GOAT, indeed is primarily responsible for the greatness generally over the past decade and a half, just as Favre was primarily responsible for the greatness the decade and a half before that. And Gutekunst indeed is far from the worst drafting GM. I'd even put him pretty far up into the upper half. LUCK, however, has a lot to do with that. Hardly any Super Bowl wins in that thirty year period? A big whatever about that. LUCK had a lot to do with that too.

[sharpe1027]

Crap teams have more opportunities for mediocre draft picks to play. Teams with a decent existing base of talent will have a higher bar for immediate contributions from draft picks. This skews analysis based on early player production towards shitty teams.

[call_me_ishmael]

A 9-10 win team is a far stretch from "worst drafting GM in the league"

Not my words, to be clear, but I think you are ignoring that analysis and not doing basic finger counting. The second contract guys aren’t there. The girls never came, the girls never came.

[bobblehead]

As I said, I'm not going all in on gutes. Just don't get the hate. Bottom line 2023 will likely tell the story

[call_me_ishmael]

As I said, I'm not going all in on gutes. Just don't get the hate. Bottom line 2023 will likely tell the story

I mean you’re totally right that if Love is a stud he will get extended and remain in GB for quite a while. But if he’s a bust or not great I think there is a very good chance the next owner wants to bring in their own guy. Thus my grand theory of then keeping ARod through Murphg’s last two years.

[texaspackerbacker]

Keeping Aaron Rodgers, yes, THAT will be the thing that Gutekunst will be remembered for - that glorious contract that will keep Rodgers in Green Bay for the rest of his career and make sure that career goes on at least a couple more years. Love is irrelevant - a drafting mistake probably, but not one that will mean much one way or the other long term. Good point that Packer drafting has been dampened over the years by the outstanding records that the team has had most years. I for one wouldn't want that any other way. Beyond that dampening from the great records, it's primarily about LUCK - who falls to you, who develops in a good way, who gets injured, etc.

[call_me_ishmael]

It is about luck but there are clearly some teams better at evaluating players than others. Baltimore is the first one that comes to mind. Ozzie and now DeCosta really know how to draft.

[Joemailman]

It is about luck but there are clearly some teams better at evaluating players than others. Baltimore is the first one that comes to mind. Ozzie and now DeCosta really know how to draft.

Yet they've missed the playoffs 5 of the last 10 years and have won a total of 2 playoff games in that time. Perhaps there's a tendency to overrate how other teams have done in relation to the Packers?

[texaspackerbacker]

I found this on the internet:

"Pro Football Debate
4d
·
Aaron Rodgers has called out all the news circulating about him fake.
He never said he wants out of Green Bay and he never told his agent he prefers the Raiders to name some of the big things said.
He even called out Adam Schefter and Ian Rapoport.Over the years they’ve been considered the NFLS most trust worthy insiders.
“I have no problem with Ian Rapoport…Schefter…I think they’re really good at their jobs. When it comes to me, they don’t know (expletive). They really don’t. They don’t have people in my inner circle who are sources, I can promise you that. And anybody who would talk to them is not in my inner circle. It’s that simple.” - Aaron Rodgers
- Lukas"

I don't know who this Lukas is, but this makes infinite sense.

[ThunderDan]

I found this on the internet:

"Pro Football Debate
4d
·
Aaron Rodgers has called out all the news circulating about him fake.
He never said he wants out of Green Bay and he never told his agent he prefers the Raiders to name some of the big things said.
He even called out Adam Schefter and Ian Rapoport.Over the years they’ve been considered the NFLS most trust worthy insiders.
“I have no problem with Ian Rapoport…Schefter…I think they’re really good at their jobs. When it comes to me, they don’t know (expletive). They really don’t. They don’t have people in my inner circle who are sources, I can promise you that. And anybody who would talk to them is not in my inner circle. It’s that simple.” - Aaron Rodgers
- Lukas"

I don't know who this Lukas is, but this makes infinite sense.

So you trust a not known media puke asshole that supports your point over all of the known media puke assholes that don't support your point.

Good to know and not a surprise.

[Fritz]

I found this on the internet:

"Pro Football Debate
4d
·
Aaron Rodgers has called out all the news circulating about him fake.
He never said he wants out of Green Bay and he never told his agent he prefers the Raiders to name some of the big things said.
He even called out Adam Schefter and Ian Rapoport.Over the years they’ve been considered the NFLS most trust worthy insiders.
“I have no problem with Ian Rapoport…Schefter…I think they’re really good at their jobs. When it comes to me, they don’t know (expletive). They really don’t. They don’t have people in my inner circle who are sources, I can promise you that. And anybody who would talk to them is not in my inner circle. It’s that simple.” - Aaron Rodgers
- Lukas"

I don't know who this Lukas is, but this makes infinite sense.

He's a goodamn media puke, Tex. You can't believe a word of their bullshit, those goddamn media pukes.

[red]

It’s called hypocrisy fellas

[texaspackerbacker]

He's a goodamn media puke, Tex. You can't believe a word of their bullshit, those goddamn media pukes.

Undoubtedly he is. Directly quoting Rodgers makes this different, although I suppose he's misquoting him the same as the shitheads do. What's funny/ironic/whatever is that the haters and fools in here choose to believe the irrational negative shit and disregard this quote which is as Mr. Spaak would say, eminently logical.

[Bretsky]

He's a goodamn media puke, Tex. You can't believe a word of their bullshit, those goddamn media pukes.



Is Rodgers also a media whore, or just his GD tool every Tuesday who throws him the softballs while giving him a handie ?

[Bretsky]

None of those are luck. Those are a mix of bad players and bad coaching. Bostik was told to block a guy and let the good hands guy behind him get the ball. He didn't. King and others needed to play the way the refs call the game. They study the refs every week, and know the tendencies. Blocked punt and the rest of the special ed teams that year was also on the coach and players. Talented and well coached teams create their own luck.

agree with this more than the luck

[Bretsky]

A 9-10 win team is a far stretch from "worst drafting GM in the league"


Perosnally I never said worst drafting GM. I think he's fine. There are far greater issues than Gutebag IMO

[Fritz]

Bretsky, I really think Mark Murphy should've been one of the choices in this poll.

[RashanGary]

TT brought in two HOF players (Rodgers and Woodson.) It looks like Gute is on pace for zero. It’s not going to work out without great players. Gute is to blame.

Alexander is his best pickup and he’s on the level of Thompsons 3rd best (clay matthews)



Gute needs to do better or we lose.

[call_me_ishmael]

TT brought in two HOF players (Rodgers and Woodson.) It looks like Gute is on pace for zero. It’s not going to work out without great players. Gute is to blame.

Alexander is his best pickup and he’s on the level of Thompsons 3rd best (clay matthews)



Gute needs to do better or we lose.

He actually brought in three. Peppers made the 2014 team significantly better. And Nick da Pick was a special, special dude. And Bakhtiari.

Gooter has room for improvement but I would say his hit rate is pretty darn good for top picks.

I personally believe the reason they haven’t won another Super Bowl in this late stage of Rodgers career is largely him not getting it done in the big game. He did play well enough to win it in 2014 though.

[run pMc]

https://www.dailynorseman.com/2022/4/26/23042105/nfl-draft-pick-bust-rate-remains-very-high?_gl=1*5g37a2*

only about 8% of draft picks are players that really make much of a difference beyond replacement value, and only about 30% see much playing time or make a significant contribution to the team.

Gute's not awful, he's not Executive of the Year either. He's done ok.
He takes more risks/bigger swings than TT did and that includes FA spending.

[Deputy Nutz]

Defense wins championships, or loses championships. I just don't think the Packers have had an elite defense for decades. Rodgers takes up way too much of the salary cap for the last 10 years for them to go out and sign quality free agents to fill gaps. The Packers franchise is obsessed with being quality year in and year out. They are not obsessed with winning Super Bowls. If you can't get in early on difference makers or even fill ins in free agency, then you better hit in your drafts, something the Packers haven't been great at in the last 10 years.

[bobblehead]

It is about luck but there are clearly some teams better at evaluating players than others. Baltimore is the first one that comes to mind. Ozzie and now DeCosta really know how to draft.

The first one to come to mind is a team with an MVP on a rookie deal that has won far less games than Gutes has?? That is kinda blowing up your own argument isn't it?

[call_me_ishmael]

The first one to come to mind is a team with an MVP on a rookie deal that has won far less games than Gutes has?? That is kinda blowing up your own argument isn't it?

Look at the last 25 years? They are probably the best drafting franchise. They are consistently successful and one of the top tier organizations IMO. Great owner, great coach, great GM, etc.

I'm not really sure what you mean by my argument, though. What are we discussing here? I don't recall but it if it's about Gooter's drafting record I think most people are generally aligned that he needs to do better.

[Jaire]

Not a little is bad luck. That TB team was the best defense in a decade, right with the SB championship Broncos and LoB. Without Bakh, they still almost won and gave the Bucs their only real competion in that post season. They were really banged up against San Fran the next year and were easy favorites if healthy. That was not like the 2015 debacle, which was 80 percent coaching errors. 2020 and 2021 were their years. Last year, neglected holes caught up with them, and the coaching proved middle of the road. If they have a future, the coaching needs to improve.

Still, I gotta put it on the FO for not getting a WR sooner and 2020 was the obvious year to grab one. No way to look at that draft and not be disappointed top to bottom. Also, Gute has very few of his picks still playing with the team.

[call_me_ishmael]

I do wonder a lot if the Packers won a super bowl or two if they drafted Tee Higgins. Dude is a stud, and we were one player away ish both times.

I do kinda wonder if that haunts Gooter. There is a reasonably good chance he never gets back.

[Bretsky]

I do wonder a lot if the Packers won a super bowl or two if they drafted Tee Higgins. Dude is a stud, and we were one player away ish both times.

I do kinda wonder if that haunts Gooter. There is a reasonably good chance he never gets back.

:bclap::bclap::bclap::bclap::bclap:

[Joemailman]

I do wonder a lot if the Packers won a super bowl or two if they drafted Tee Higgins. Dude is a stud, and we were one player away ish both times.

I do kinda wonder if that haunts Gooter. There is a reasonably good chance he never gets back.

If you're talking about 2020 and 2021 the one player they were short was Bakhtiari, and in 2021 also Jenkins. OL was a bigger problem than WR.

[Fritz]

I wonder if the loss to Tampa Bay a few years ago in the NFCCG haunts Rodgers?

I know it sill haunts me. They had the ball and the lead with six minutes left.

[Joemailman]

I wonder if the loss to Tampa Bay a few years ago in the NFCCG haunts Rodgers?

I know it sill haunts me. They had the ball and the lead with six minutes left.

You're confusing the Tampa Bay loss with the 49ers loss. Packers never had the lead against Tampa Bay in the 4th quarter. They had the lead in the 4th quarter against 49ers until the blocked punt with 4:50 left.

[Jaire]

I wonder if the loss to Tampa Bay a few years ago in the NFCCG haunts Rodgers?

I know it sill haunts me. They had the ball and the lead with six minutes left.

nah. I know the 2015 haunts him (he's said so) and probably the fiasco last year with San Fran. Overall they played very well against TB, a game they needed to be perfect in to win and they nearly pulled off. The late first half TD was on the refs, and coaches for not calling time out. It's the ones you should have won that haunt. TB was the best team in maybe seven years since Denver 2015.

[red]

I wonder if the loss to Tampa Bay a few years ago in the NFCCG haunts Rodgers?

I know it sill haunts me. They had the ball and the lead with six minutes left.

well it sure as shit haunts me, i was one of the 2,000 asshole or whatever it was at that game

at least i got to flip of brady when he looked up at me after a TD

[Deputy Nutz]

When you throw a terrible pass on 3rd down when you could have just walked the ball into the endzone sure as shit would have haunted me if I was Aaron Rodgers. Probably the beginning of the end for him when it came time to winning games with the season on the line.

[Fritz]

You're confusing the Tampa Bay loss with the 49ers loss. Packers never had the lead against Tampa Bay in the 4th quarter. They had the lead in the 4th quarter against 49ers until the blocked punt with 4:50 left.

You're right. I'm getting them mixed up. The San Fran game was the one in which they had the ball and the lead with about six minutes left. The Tampa Bay game was the one in which on third down Rodgers could've scored if he'd run it in instead of throwing a low-percentage pass. And let's say he gets tackled three yards short. Then you've still got fourth down.

Rodgers has screwed up in a couple of big games, right when you need him most. No wonder I'm getting mixed up.

[call_me_ishmael]

When you throw a terrible pass on 3rd down when you could have just walked the ball into the endzone sure as shit would have haunted me if I was Aaron Rodgers. Probably the beginning of the end for him when it came time to winning games with the season on the line.

Man, I love me some Aaron Rodgers the same way I loved Brett Favre, but even I can admit that a young, hungry, JLove probably would have scored and taken the hit. That's the difference right there.

[Joemailman]

Rodgers would not have scored on the 3rd and 8 play. 2010 Rodgers maybe, but not 2020 Rodgers. But I've watched that play a lot, and I think he could have gotten close enough that MLF might have gone for it on 4th down.

[Fritz]

I agree. I've watched that a few times; I think defenders close in pretty fast, and realistically I think Rodgers would've been stopped around the five or so. But that sets up so many short TD pass possibilities - remember what they did to Jalen Ramsey in the playoffs, when Davante Adams just slipped right into the end zone, and bam, the ball was there. The throw Rodgers tried to make was more a desperation throw - not as productive as getting the ball down to the five or so and going for it from there.

[bobblehead]

You're right. I'm getting them mixed up. The San Fran game was the one in which they had the ball and the lead with about six minutes left. The Tampa Bay game was the one in which on third down Rodgers could've scored if he'd run it in instead of throwing a low-percentage pass. And let's say he gets tackled three yards short. Then you've still got fourth down.

Rodgers has screwed up in a couple of big games, right when you need him most. No wonder I'm getting mixed up.

The truly awful thing is that 2nd down was similar. He could have got to the 1 at least on EITHER down and failed to put his body into it. Then he whined when MiLF kicked the FG.

[MadtownPacker]

I had not voted on the poll yet. After reading all your comments I became enraged JustinHarrell style at all the opportunities missed. Yes Rodgers was at fault many of the times when he could’ve been the difference. He has more responsibility because he is paid more than everyone else and failed when given several playoff opportunities. The TEAM has been in the playoff hunt almost every year so it is hard to give alot of the blame to management. Had the puke shithead who made this poll not been a dumbass he would have put an option for head coaches and Rodgers because that’s where about 80% goes.