WHAT IS GUTEBAG'S BIGGEST MISTAKE/S SO FAR AS OUR GM ????

[Bretsky]

OK, so I have read an article rating Gooters one of the top 10 GM's in the NFL. I am luke warm, not really a buyer or a seller on Gutebag.

Life is about Championships. So far in Green Bay from what I have witnessed

Ron Wolf has 1
Ted Thompson has 1

And so far the other GM"s are irrelevant.

On one hand, our record over the past 10 years is among the best in the NFL, probably the best.

On the other hand, we've pissed away the last 10 years with a HOF Karen for QB and no Super Bowls to show for it.

So it's time for a poll to pick at the GUTE

[Joemailman]

I voted not trading Rodgers, although I'm not sure it was all Gute's decision.

[Bretsky]

I voted not trading Rodgers, although I'm not sure it was all Gute's decision.


Thst is a very valid point as I've heard many imply MM had a huge say in not allowing Arod to be traded

[texaspackerbacker]

I didn't vote for the trade being the biggest mistake since it hasn't happened and ideally will not happen. I voted for drafting Love, as THAT more than anything else led to the shitstorm going on now. That applies either way, if Love is a total flop or if he is a decent QB. His absolute ceiling is well below what Rodgers has been and would continue to be.

As I've said many many times, nobody except the worst imbeciles and haters would be ranting against what I call THAT GLORIOUS CONTRACT if last year hadn't gone so bad with the injury(s) to Rodgers himself as well as most of the Packers receivers for significant chunks of the season, and throw in injuries to the O Line too for those who think O Line play is all that important, even throw in injuries on defense along with general underperformance thanks to Joe Barry. If the Packers had a great record and/or Rodgers played again at MVP level, only total dumbasses would not be thankful to have him locked up with that glorious contract.

Overall, Gutekunst has done a very decent job as a GM. However, if he ends up losing Rodgers with the subsequent dark age that results, that overshadows all the good things he has done in the past and probably future too.

[red]

tough to choose just one

in you list, each one seems worse then the previous (except for the last one)

maybe there should be another one. allowing karen to become the GM jr in the first place

to me, gutey is like the 3 stooges, and he's playing all the stooges

[Deputy Nutz]

Before the Draft in 2021 when Rodger's team leaked that he would refuse to play for the Packers any more and that he was at odds with the franchise the Packers should have immediately moved on from him. I would have forced him to either sit on his ass or I would have traded him for as many picks as I could have gotten. I would not have handed over the keys to the franchise by validating his opinions on the roster, ripping up his final year of his contract, and then extending him to a ridiculous contract. The Packers have fucked up this entire process with Rodgers.

[RashanGary]

Before the Draft in 2021 when Rodger's team leaked that he would refuse to play for the Packers any more and that he was at odds with the franchise the Packers should have immediately moved on from him. I would have forced him to either sit on his ass or I would have traded him for as many picks as I could have gotten. I would not have handed over the keys to the franchise by validating his opinions on the roster, ripping up his final year of his contract, and then extending him to a ridiculous contract. The Packers have fucked up this entire process with Rodgers.

Yep. At the time we had some hope for a sb, so I kind of understand. But they botched it. Could have gotten 2 firsts and 2 seconds and had a swipe at an elite QB in one of the next couple drafts. Botched.

[Fritz]

I voted not trading Rodgers, although I'm not sure it was all Gute's decision.

To me, this is his biggest mistake - an error of omission, as it were - although I understand the reasons he did not move on from Rodgers. Surely we can see the logic of wanting to "run it back" with the same crew that had had so much success the previous three years, and had gotten so close to the SB. Now, that's coming from someone - me - who was on record last offseason of wanting Rodgers gone, since he seemed to be turning into that old HOF QB who thinks he's always the smartest guy in any room.

So while it was the biggest mistake, it's an understandable one, and one that cannot be laid entirely at Guter's feet, as Mark Murphy is the one who created the dumb "silo" system and apparently, like some kind of hyper-involved NFL owner, also decided HE should have a hand in player personnel decisions and pushed Guter to NOT trade Rodgers.

But we can say with some certainty that Guter is in charge of the draft, and his third round selections range from "meh" to "Jaysus that sucked." His first draft? Oren Burks, a decent special teams guy and nothing more - no instinct for the game, bad angles. So - a third round pick for a ST guy. Next year? The mighty Jace Sternberger, who apparently recently caught a touchdown pass for some XFL or USFL team in Alabama or something. Sheesh. That guy was never right, not from day one. But in 2020 Guter redeemed himself with the mighty Josiah Deguara. I know KYPack liked the guy, but he's just a blocker who occasionally catches a pass, and is he THAT good of a blocker to be worth a third? He's a guy. But Guter had the next year to make up for that one, so let's move on to Amari Rodgers, perhaps the worst third round pick since Brett Conway in 1997. But if you thought Guter couldn't top that shit-stained bed, then take a look at last year's third round pick . . . wait, what was his name again? You know, that guy who disappeared the minute he got to camp, and only re-emerged when he got suspended for six games later in the season. You know, that guy who, I think, didn't play a single minute in a regular season game. Yeah, that guy. Sean Rhyan.

[MadScientist]

I said not trading Rodgers, because that contract is so shifty for the Packers, but Gute's failure to address the receiving corps for years, when everyone here could see the problem looming was a huge failure.

[Fritz]

I said not trading Rodgers, because that contract is so shifty for the Packers, but Gute's failure to address the receiving corps for years, when everyone here could see the problem looking was a huge failure.

In that regard, Davante Adams was a safety net not only for Rodgers, but for Gutes.

[George Cumby]

They could've fleeced Denver instead of the Hags.

I wish we had Schneider as our GM.

No brainer on this one.

[SudsMcBucky]

I voted for the drafting of Love. And this is not a "hindsight" situation, either. I nearly ripped my TV off the wall and threw it on the ground when that pick was made. Did AR have some mediocre seasons prior to the Love pick? Yeah, sure. But this wasn't a situation at that time like Favre, where AR was threatening to retire every single year. At that point, he had repeatedly stated his desire to retire a Packer and not until at least 40. That pick was so fucking stupid I still steam about it years later.

[ThunderDan]

I voted for the drafting of Love. And this is not a "hindsight" situation, either. I nearly ripped my TV off the wall and threw it on the ground when that pick was made. Did AR have some mediocre seasons prior to the Love pick? Yeah, sure. But this wasn't a situation at that time like Favre, where AR was threatening to retire every single year. At that point, he had repeatedly stated his desire to retire a Packer and not until at least 40. That pick was so fucking stupid I still steam about it years later.

So you were that guy in the YouTube video. :-D

[SudsMcBucky]

So you were that guy in the YouTube video. :-D

Ummmm, I can neither confirm nor deny that.

[call_me_ishmael]

Who's trading an MVP? That MVP then went on to win another MVP. The biggest mistake they made was clearly drafting Love when they did as it stands today. It won't be a mistake if he turns out great but that action ended up walking out Rodgers. They probably would have won a super bowl if they took Higgins.

[Fritz]

Thing is, Ish, by that logic it's the Packers' fault for making Rodgers uncomfortable? Geez, better not draft a left tackle, or Bakh will get pissed!

I disagree with you. I think it's the constant swings and misses on third round guys that cost this team a SB. Or maybe not drafting the right guy in the second round of a draft, like NOT Josh Jackson.

[Bretsky]

i struggle with my own poll :)

And I almost added making Bach the highest paid in the NFL as option 5 :)

I agree that drafting Love was our 1st and 4th rounder was a huge mistake and had we stayed put and drafted Tee Higgins it might have means another championship

Also think not resigning Devante when he still wanted to stay in GB was a huge mistake. Many in the know blame Gute for not offering the 2MIL more per year to get it down. In the end, one year later, Devante got a lot more. Rodgers or not, with Adams leaving and Gutebag's failure to get another legit talent at WR to go with Devante screwed us royally last year

But in the end, while I feel the two above points are were serious fuck ups (one could add not ever getting a legit #2 WR in the poll as well), when Aaron turned KAREN we had a huge opportunity to get a kings ransom from Denver.....the motherload of all f'ck ups was not trading Karen Rodgers, and instead giving him a ridiculous deal for the "Green Bay Packers' that we will regret for years and years to come. And we gave him that AFTER Devante left, when we had no real chance at a championship anymore anyways. We overestimated our own talent, ignorantly thinking bringing a Karen back could take us the the Big Show without the WR that helped him shine

[King Friday]

The failure to me is twofold. Losing Adams and choosing to keep Rodgers was beyond dumb. The GM should’ve made sure he had both onboard when Rodgers was given the massive extension. Otherwise, it should not have been signed. The Packers had struggled to get over the hump with Adams. The team had no chance without him.

If there was no way to keep Adams, then Rodgers should’ve been traded.

[Deputy Nutz]

Who's trading an MVP? That MVP then went on to win another MVP. The biggest mistake they made was clearly drafting Love when they did as it stands today. It won't be a mistake if he turns out great but that action ended up walking out Rodgers. They probably would have won a super bowl if they took Higgins.

I think Rodgers is too egotistical to think the Love pick was anything but a backup option, if anything he viewed it as a wasted pick. He wanted to be the highest paid QB in the League, and he wanted older veterans to live in fantasy land in the NFL and have jobs for ever and have the red carpet brought out each time a veteran walked into the Packer locker room. He couldn't win a championship being the MVP so he wanted his contract extended to make him the highest paid player. Obviously he refuses to be compared to Favre or handle the situation publicly in any way shape or form the way Brett handled it. Rodgers was of course about the drafting of Love. Love also posed no threat to Rodgers until now, and of course he wants to play for another team now, similar to Favre.

[run pMc]

I don't think it was a mistake drafting Love, it likely lit a fire under Rodgers and led to 2 years of MVP play.
I have said several times they needed to draft a QB eventually, I just felt they took one a year too early. I wanted a WR that draft. Trading up for Love meant they had to give up a R4 which resulted in them taking Deguara a round early (at least). Not great, but they have a succession plan from Rodgers.

The biggest error was giving up power and that structure of the contract extension -- the longer it goes, the more expensive it gets. Many contracts have decreasing cap hits as they go... this one increases and paints the team into a corner. That's bad cap management.
Maybe that's on Russ Ball or Murphy and not Gute.

Gute's made plenty of mistakes, but he's done some good things too.

[texaspackerbacker]

Do you seriously think THAT - to light a fire under Rodgers - was the reason they drafted Love? Seriously? Granted, it seemed to work out that way, but an NFL executive thinking like that? Come on, man hahahahaha.

The contract was DESIGNED to assure that there would be such a big price to pay for either Rodgers or the team if Rodgers left that it wouldn't happen - the reason I did then and still do call it a Glorious Contract. If he continues to play for the Packers (still doubtful, I suppose) and that contract is part of the reason why, then anybody calling himself a Packer fan will be thankful. If he goes, either by trade or retirement, it's doom and gloom for all of us who claim to be Packer fans.

"Many contracts have decreasing cap hits as they go" - that's just factually wrong. Almost all have a small hit at the beginning with a big load at the end which is expected to result either in a restructure or a cut.

[run pMc]

Lighting a fire under Rodgers was NOT the reason they drafted Love, but it was the result.

Slight clarification to earlier comment: The cap hit (savings) improves as a contract goes on, even if the cap space used for the contract that year goes up. It's usually because signing of prorated bonuses and how that money hits in year 1 vs. Year 3 vs. Year 5.

In fact, Rodgers contract is so bizarre that several people have written in-depth articles explaining it, and they agree it's bad for the team's cap. What contract do you know of causes a 99M cap hit?

[Harlan Huckleby]

I voted for drafting Love, as THAT more than anything else led to the shitstorm going on now. That applies either way, if Love is a total flop or if he is a decent QB. His absolute ceiling is well below what Rodgers has been and would continue to be.
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3xfwHB5Nm1Y/Vs8jszFffNI/AAAAAAAABb0/Cn7Das7kNMI/s1600/reaction%2Bgif%2Bfirefly%2Bfunny%2Blol%2Bwtf%2Bmem e%2Btrolled.gif

[Harlan Huckleby]

Lighting a fire under Rodgers was NOT the reason they drafted Love, but it was the result.

It was a routine move that every other NFL GM would have done.

Tex was right that Love is not likely to be as good as Rodgers, a hall of famer. so what

[Harlan Huckleby]

I voted for the drafting of Love. And this is not a "hindsight" situation, either. I nearly ripped my TV off the wall and threw it on the ground when that pick was made. Did AR have some mediocre seasons prior to the Love pick? Yeah, sure. But this wasn't a situation at that time like Favre, where AR was threatening to retire every single year. At that point, he had repeatedly stated his desire to retire a Packer and not until at least 40. That pick was so fucking stupid I still steam about it years later.

Teams ALWAYS seek plan Bs for the QB position - actually for every position. Remember all the promising QBs that Ron Wolfe drafted and later traded?
It's true that Love was a #1, but he dropped to the end of the round and was seen as an irresistible value.

Packers were not pushing Rodgers out the door. They were just covering their bases. AR had every opportunity to play well and keep Love on the bench or on the trading block.

[run pMc]

Teams ALWAYS seek plan Bs for the QB position - actually for every position. Remember all the promising QBs that Ron Wolfe drafted and later traded?
It's true that Love was a #1, but he dropped to the end of the round and was seen as an irresistible value.

Packers were not pushing Rodgers out the door. They were just covering their bases. AR had every opportunity to play well and keep Love on the bench or on the trading block.

This. There is nothing wrong with drafting a QB when your starter has had 3 straight seasons outside the top 5 QBs (he went 23-16-1, all 3 seasons w/ passer rating below 100) and just finished his age 36 season. That's covering your bases.
As players age they become more susceptible to injury.
What's wrong with having a good backup at QB? Now, maybe they didn't need to take one in R1, but Love was likely too good a prospect -- some had him in the top 10 -- to pass up.

I don't consider it a bad or wasted pick, not yet anyway. If he stinks it up I might change my mind, but all he is then is a bridge to the next QB they'll take.
Also, if MLF is any good with QBs and the Shanny/McVay offense is QB friendly he should at least be ok. Maybe never Rodgers good (Rodgers is possibly the most talented QB ever) but plenty of lesser QBs have taken their teams to SBs.

[texaspackerbacker]

Picking Love, even trading up for it was not a huge mistake because Love is crap - he may be, or he may be good. The reason it was a huge bad move is that it triggered the whole shitstorm of events we see nowadays. And as I said, as Harlan said, and probably some others who aren't totally out of it also know, Love's absolute ceiling is nowhere near as good as the average of Rodgers' years in his career, maybe not even to the level of Rodgers' "bad" years like last year.

IF Rodgers is indeed gone - hopefully not but probably yes, and iF people are willing to settle for that level of a replacement, then whatever. Love probably ain't complete crap. He might be fairly good, but that plus everything else adds up to what I consider mediocrity for the foreseeable future.

I'd rather have several more years of greatness with Rodgers at QB. It's downright weird how so few of ya'all don't see it that way.

[RashanGary]

You’re not one of the good, normals Tex. You’re an odd ball with odd ball ideas!

[run pMc]

I'd like several more years of greatness with Rodgers at QB.

Except he almost retired or demanded trades the last 3 years, and even Woody Johnson is scared he's only playing one more year... so the "several more years" part is wishful thinking. There's a better than 50/50 chance by Rodgers own admission (if we believe him) that he's done after this year. He's 39, even he doesn't think he has several more years. I don't know why you do.

The "greatness" part might also be wishful thinking, if you watch the last 21 games of Rodgers tape. The moments of greatness are fewer and fewer. That, combined with his cost, are why people don't see it the way you do.
($60M for 8-9 or 10-7 and a WC loss? yuck.)

[sharpe1027]

If Rodgers couldn't handle that a rookie QB, unproven but with some upside, came into camp and that caused all this...where to begin?

[RashanGary]

If Rodgers couldn't handle that a rookie QB, unproven but with some upside, came into camp and that caused all this...where to begin?

Yep

[NewsBruin]

An undervalued first-round pick drives the gripey veteran to New Jersey...man, we need better writers.

[texaspackerbacker]

You’re not one of the good, normals Tex. You’re an odd ball with odd ball ideas!

Where does that come from? Have you checked comments in other forums or Facebook or Yahoo articles or just talked to people in general about Rodgers and if he is gone? It's a lot more like 50/50 or more outside of this forum - where inexplicably, the haters, etc. are close to 100%.

[Deputy Nutz]

I try to take things for face value, so when Rodgers says he intends to play for the Jets in 2023 I believe that is his intent.


Also when it come to Rodgers, I can't put it all on the shoulders of Gute. I think a lot of this falls on Murphy and Russ Ball. You know, the triangle of sadness.

[run pMc]

Where does that come from? Have you checked comments in other forums or Facebook or Yahoo articles or just talked to people in general about Rodgers and if he is gone? It's a lot more like 50/50 or more outside of this forum - where inexplicably, the haters, etc. are close to 100%.

Maybe in TX, not in WI
I've heard it's more like 70/30 in favor of a Rodgers trade. Murphy was getting a lot of "when?" questions he had to shut down on his Tailgate Tour; there wasn't much trade-hate out there.

[texaspackerbacker]

I'm tempted to just settle for your 70/30 figure, because it's a lot worse for the side of Good in here hahahaha.

I'm not talking about TX. The only Packer fans I know here are relatives, and of course, they are pro-keeping Rodgers. I'm talking primarily about the "groups" in Facebook that pop up in my FB - "Diehard Packer Fan Group", "Green Bay Packer Fans", "Wisconsin Sports 24/7 Group", etc.

[Deputy Nutz]

I'm tempted to just settle for your 70/30 figure, because it's a lot worse for the side of Good in here hahahaha.

I'm not talking about TX. The only Packer fans I know here are relatives, and of course, they are pro-keeping Rodgers. I'm talking primarily about the "groups" in Facebook that pop up in my FB - "Diehard Packer Fan Group", "Green Bay Packer Fans", "Wisconsin Sports 24/7 Group", etc.


All those groups sound horrible.

[Fritz]

I try to take things for face value, so when Rodgers says he intends to play for the Jets in 2023 I believe that is his intent.


Also when it come to Rodgers, I can't put it all on the shoulders of Gute. I think a lot of this falls on Murphy and Russ Ball. You know, the triangle of sadness.

And of coure the very existence of said "triangle of sadness" (great description) falls on Murphy.

[texaspackerbacker]

All those groups sound horrible.

Most of their articles are in fact pretty horrible - not much different from any other media crap. I was referring, however, to the comments, likes, etc. from people reading them.

These as well as the also horrible articles in Yahoo and other venues - the comments by people and thumbs up or down, etc.

All of those comments and reactions by regular people have been pretty well mixed, a very decent percentage pro-keeping Rodgers along with, of course, ignorant shitheads who want him gone with the subsequent long period of mediocrity or worse.

[sharpe1027]

There was a online poll I saw from a Wisconsin television station about Rodgers saying he intends to play for the Jets with about 1000 responses. It was something like 60% just glad it was over, 35% very happy and 5% upset.

[Rastak]

There was a online poll I saw from a Wisconsin television station about Rodgers saying he intends to play for the Jets with about 1000 responses. It was something like 60% just glad it was over, 35% very happy and 5% upset.


Ding dong is the 5%.......

[call_me_ishmael]

Y'all know JLove is going to cost basically as much or maybe even more than Rodgers next year if he is pretty good, right? To me the cost is irrelevant to the discussion. He got a market rate contract. I don't think the contract was foolish. The Packers wanted ARod to sign an extension - what other number would a back-to-back MVP sign for? That's what QBs cost these days.

[sharpe1027]

Y'all know JLove is going to cost basically as much or maybe even more than Rodgers next year if he is pretty good, right? To me the cost is irrelevant to the discussion. He got a market rate contract. I don't think the contract was foolish. The Packers wanted ARod to sign an extension - what other number would a back-to-back MVP sign for? That's what QBs cost these days.
We can only hope we're lucky enough to have a third great QB in a row.

[ThunderDan]

Y'all know JLove is going to cost basically as much or maybe even more than Rodgers next year if he is pretty good, right? To me the cost is irrelevant to the discussion. He got a market rate contract. I don't think the contract was foolish. The Packers wanted ARod to sign an extension - what other number would a back-to-back MVP sign for? That's what QBs cost these days.

Love will make nothing close to what ARod will make unless we go 10-7 and make a deep playoff run. He will make good money but not ARod and Mahommes money.

I don't think the overall money was the problem but how it was structured.

[call_me_ishmael]

I don't even think he needs to be great. ARod is already the third highest paid QB behind Hurts and Wilson, arguably Watson too. I suspect that Kirk Cousins (leverage), Joe Burrow, Lamar Jackson, and Justin Herbert will exceed or be in the same ball park as Rodgers in annual compensation rate in the next 12 months. Looking at 18 months, I suspect Love, if he doesn't totally bust, will be right there, along with Trevor Lawrence, Tua, etc.

So, it's not like he's crazy out of whack. The *structure* of the Rodgers contract is more than outlier than the money, and that is 100% due to covid and the Packers cap situation than leverage or maliciousness on ARods part, etc.

[Tony Oday]

Drafting Love, good thing this will be his last draft, Love will be benched week 10. I 100% hope I am eating crow next year!

[Fritz]

Here's what would be wild: if the Packers surprised everyone and took that Hendon Hooker guy out of Tennessee. That would set the town abuzz. Maybe even the NFL. It would give the talking heads something to yammer on and on and on about.

[sharpe1027]

Here's what would be wild: if the Packers surprised everyone and took that Hendon Hooker guy out of Tennessee. That would set the town abuzz. Maybe even the NFL. It would give the talking heads something to yammer on and on and on about.

What's wrong with lining up a backup for your starter as insurance? Are we worried Love will threaten to retire?

[call_me_ishmael]

Here's what would be wild: if the Packers surprised everyone and took that Hendon Hooker guy out of Tennessee. That would set the town abuzz. Maybe even the NFL. It would give the talking heads something to yammer on and on and on about.

They is going to happen. Not only is it going to happen, it is the right thing to do. Hendon Henderson is going to be a good player IMO. He has a great arm and seems like a great kid.

[Joemailman]

Just keep in mind that Hooker tore his ACL late in the 2022 season, and played in a spread offense very different from anything in the NFL. He's a developmental player who likely would not be able to be the backup in 2023. How high of a pick do you want to use on a guy who figures to maybe be your backup in 2024 by which time he will be 26 years old?

[call_me_ishmael]

Henderson could be a 5 year great starter. Maybe longer! I see a lot of talent there. Of course, I’m the same guy that insists that Chase McSorley would be a good NFL QB if he was a few inches taller so ymmv.

[red]

heard demovsky mention on the radio today that the same year they gave the keys to rodgers, they took brohm in the second and flynn in the 7th. brohm was pretty highly touted

so its not unheard of to draft a QB in the first year of a new QB reign and we do need a backup