Love’s first game as El Hombre…

[King Friday]

Time to see who has faith and who thinks Aaron Rodgers is the only player who was worth anything on the roster.

What kind of game does Love put up in game 1?

I won’t predict a 300+ yard coming out party, but I feel confident he will look the part of a starting QB and do well enough to guide the Packers to a close victory.

[Joemailman]

He'll be running an offense built around his skills, not Rodgers'. But I might want to know who the opponent is before making a prediction.

[run pMc]

Waiting to see who they play, what the roster looks like, and the team in general after about 2 games into preseason.
I don't think they'll ask Love to air the ball out 40 times unless it's some kind of shootout, though.

[MadScientist]

I just want to see him run the offense efficiently. Let the scheme create open receivers and have Love hit them in stride. 300 yards is not what I want to see, but rather an efficient 225-250 and have him get the first win under his belt.

Also 300 yards is something Rodgers reached only 4 times in each of his last two MVP seasons, with two of those 8 games being losses and one an overtime win. So if Love hits 300 yards, it either means the defense is failing and Love has to chuck it, or the other team is just letting Watson run free.

[call_me_ishmael]

Keep in mind ARod, with a team that went 13-3 the year before, went 6-10. I suspect Love will be around that, maybe 7-9, maybe 5-11. I'd be pretty happy with 8-8. We shall see.

[MadtownPacker]

They will start slow then finish competitive barely missing the playoffs. This will be followed up next year with a playoff win.

[run pMc]

Keep in mind ARod, with a team that went 13-3 the year before, went 6-10. I suspect Love will be around that, maybe 7-9, maybe 5-11. I'd be pretty happy with 8-8. We shall see.

Reminder: seasons are 17 games. :)

[jklowan]

I am expecting 9-10 wins, this current team is in way better shape talentwise than when Rodgers took over.

[Joemailman]

Keep in mind ARod, with a team that went 13-3 the year before, went 6-10. I suspect Love will be around that, maybe 7-9, maybe 5-11. I'd be pretty happy with 8-8. We shall see.

But Rodgers wasn't the main problem. The Packers offense declined only slightly in 2008. The biggest problem is that the Packers went from the #6 defense in 2007 to the #22 defense in 2008. Rodgers' stats in 2008 were very similar to Favre's in 2007. How well the defense plays in 2023 will be as big a factor as how well Love plays.

[RashanGary]

I am expecting 9-10 wins, this current team is in way better shape talentwise than when Rodgers took over.

The Packers had a great playoff run with Favre the year before Rodgers took over.

[RashanGary]

When Favre left he had like 9 sacks in 2007. Rodgers had like 40 behind the same line. Favre was a field general who functioned at a torrid pace in 2007 and it always seemed like the defense was on its heels. Rodgers was slow and gave the defense time to set up. He eventually became good at his style, but early on it hurt us. Aaron Rodgers averaged 10 interceptions a year for his first three years before becoming the goat of interception percentage.

If the Rodgers transition is a decent indicator, Love will take a couple years to master his style and there will be a big drop off from a veteran HOFer even if Love is a future HOFer.

[jklowan]

The Packers had a great playoff run with Favre the year before Rodgers took over.

Player for player I think the roster that Love is inheriting is better excluding the receivers, hopefully a short term issue. Most sane people will admit this current team severely underperformed last year and I expect a bounce back to the norm this year and hopefully a flood of talent from this upcoming draft as well to help.

[jklowan]

I also think Love's style is going to rely less on the hero ball antics of Rodgers and Farve and hopefully he surprises alot of people

[Fritz]

But Rodgers wasn't the main problem. The Packers offense declined only slightly in 2008. The biggest problem is that the Packers went from the #6 defense in 2007 to the #22 defense in 2008. Rodgers' stats in 2008 were very similar to Favre's in 2007. How well the defense plays in 2023 will be as big a factor as how well Love plays.

Oh Cripes, you mean we have to count on Joe Barely?

Shit.

[Joemailman]

Oh Cripes, you mean we have to count on Joe Barely?

Shit.

Just gotta hold down the fort until your boy Gary gets back. Then they'll be unstoppable.

[run pMc]

Oh Cripes, you mean we have to count on Joe Barely?

Shit.

In my dreams, Aaron Rodgers and the NYJ disappoint Woody Johnson enough to get Robert Saleh fired, and he joins his best buddy MLF in GB to be the new DC for 2024.
The door can't hit Joe Barry in the backside fast enough.

[RashanGary]

The over/under for Jordan Love is 3400 yards and 22.5 touchdowns. 5 teams threw for less than 3400 yards. That’s bottom 15% numbers. 15 teams threw for under 22.5 touchdowns. Thats bottom half type numbers.

If the Packers didn’t have some confidence in Love, they’da kissed 12’s ass again. Gotta think they think he’s better than bottom 15%

Imma be betting on over 3400 yards. I think that’s a safe bet if he stays healthy.

[Joemailman]

I suspect a lot of people think the Packers will run the ball more and throw the ball less. I suspect they're wrong.

[texaspackerbacker]

I agree that they will probably stay a pass-first team. The question is, though, is Love up to it? Talent-wise, the team is loaded enough that if he can even come close to that 3,400 yards/22 TD passes and do it without more than a few picks, they really should win at least the 9-10 games somebody speculated. Can he do it? Optimist that I am, I still can't be confident of that.

[MadScientist]

The Packers passed 53.6% of the time last year. I suspect they will be around that again this season.

[sharpe1027]

I agree that they will probably stay a pass-first team. The question is, though, is Love up to it? Talent-wise, the team is loaded enough that if he can even come close to that 3,400 yards/22 TD passes and do it without more than a few picks, they really should win at least the 9-10 games somebody speculated. Can he do it? Optimist that I am, I still can't be confident of that.

Loaded? I thought the offensive line was terrible? How can a loaded team have a losing record and not make the playoffs? Adding some rookies can't be enough to go from a losing team to being loaded with talent. Are you now saying Rodgers played that badly?

[RashanGary]

Loaded? I thought the offensive line was terrible? How can a loaded team have a losing record and not make the playoffs? Adding some rookies can't be enough to go from a losing team to being loaded with talent. Are you now saying Rodgers played that badly?

Haha! True, how could this loaded team with the goat at QB not win more than 8 games last year :lol:

[texaspackerbacker]

Loaded? I thought the offensive line was terrible? How can a loaded team have a losing record and not make the playoffs? Adding some rookies can't be enough to go from a losing team to being loaded with talent. Are you now saying Rodgers played that badly?

hahahahaha I appreciate the fact that you read and remember my posts so well. Keep up the good work, Grasshopper. If you recall, though, I also said, O Line beyond the bare minimum, is not very significant as a factor in a team's success. Based on his own standard of greatness and with the extenuating circumstances of injuries to himself and the receivers, of course Rodgers played bad last year. We can only hope Love plays up to that level of "badness". If he does, and the receivers stay relatively healthy, and Barry can get his head even halfway out of his ass with all that talent on defense, then hell yes, they are a loaded team - just like anybody with a lick of sense thought the Packers were last season, and they woulda been if not for most of the receivers and Rodgers getting hurt and Barry shitting the bed as a DC.

[sharpe1027]

So a team like the 49ers can go 13-4 with Jimmy G. and Brock Purdy, but a loaded Packers team with Rodgers couldn't make the playoffs?

No. The Packers simply aren't loaded with talent ignoring the QB position. I'd not argue with them being average, but they're not loaded.

[run pMc]

O Line beyond the bare minimum, is not very significant as a factor in a team's success.

Some might call that a dumb take, but I'll just say it's a take any GM or QB or RB would disagree with. There's a reason most elite tackles are taken in the Top 10, and more are taken than WR or TE, or punter. If you think OL doesn't matter, I'd refer you back to early last season when they decided to trot out Hansen and Newman on the right side. Can't blame Rodgers performance on injuries and then turn around and say OL doesn't matter beyond 'bare minimum'. You also don't have Aaron Jones running for 1000 yards without a decent OL.

As for the packers roster, they have talent. A LOT of it underperformed last year: Myers, Dillon, Stokes, Savage, Devondre, et al. Even Jaire and Kenny Clark had decent if somewhat down years (for them). Are they loaded?
SF has more talent and are at the top along with PHI in the NFC. GB's roster has some holes and warts but could compete for a wildcard spot. They shouldn't go 3-14 like the Bears did last year. That team had so little talent it tried to build a roster from other teams' training camp cuts.

I will say with something like 25 drafted players in the last two years, GB has a lot of young but unproven talent. A lot of it won't pan out, but even if they hit on 30% of the picks they're doing ok.

[sharpe1027]

I think the Packers are setup with the potential to have a real good group of players in two or three years. They have shifted younger over the past two years and it's likely they will have some struggles this year. Hopefully, it pays dividends in a few years.

[texaspackerbacker]

Some might call that a dumb take, but I'll just say it's a take any GM or QB or RB would disagree with. There's a reason most elite tackles are taken in the Top 10, and more are taken than WR or TE, or punter. If you think OL doesn't matter, I'd refer you back to early last season when they decided to trot out Hansen and Newman on the right side. Can't blame Rodgers performance on injuries and then turn around and say OL doesn't matter beyond 'bare minimum'. You also don't have Aaron Jones running for 1000 yards without a decent OL.

As for the packers roster, they have talent. A LOT of it underperformed last year: Myers, Dillon, Stokes, Savage, Devondre, et al. Even Jaire and Kenny Clark had decent if somewhat down years (for them). Are they loaded?
SF has more talent and are at the top along with PHI in the NFC. GB's roster has some holes and warts but could compete for a wildcard spot. They shouldn't go 3-14 like the Bears did last year. That team had so little talent it tried to build a roster from other teams' training camp cuts.

I will say with something like 25 drafted players in the last two years, GB has a lot of young but unproven talent. A lot of it won't pan out, but even if they hit on 30% of the picks they're doing ok.

How many of those top ten picked O Linemen over the years have flopped? I'll suggest it was a large percentage of them - all the way from Mandarich to the present (I'm sure if I'm wrong, one of these whiny fact checkers in here will look it up and say otherwise hahahaha).

Which teams had the highest reputed O Lines over past years? One of them that I can think of was the Lions, and it didn't keep them from being bottom-dwellers.

I stand by what I have said 100% - Rodgers and Favre MADE the reputation of the Packers O Lines as being above average, some would say excellent. What I saw over the years/decades was consistent heavy pass rush pressure on Packer QBs that Favre and Rodgers got away from. The few games they missed, guys like Seneca Wallace and Tolzien were literally running for their lives. And did the Packers have a top flight running game over those same times. Sometimes yes, but arguably, that was MADE by the Rodgers/Favre passing game and would not have stood by itself with a mediocre passing game.

What do we have now? Potentially great pass receivers, Aaron Jones who as a change of pace RB is as good as any in the league. I don't think he could handle a true run-first offense, carrying it 25 or 30 a game. And Dillon got kinda exposed as not so great last season except as a change of pace guy. Our D could certainly be near the top of the league if Barry is any kind of a decent DC. It all comes down to Love.

I said previously, it could be anything from 5 or 6 wins if Love flops to 13 or 14 if he is good. If by some miracle, he reaches Rodgers level, the sky's the limit. My guess too would be 8 - 10 wins with Love being a half step above the pits.

Who in here can honestly say they didn't thoroughly expect the Packers to be just about the best team in the league going into last season? I certainly did.

[run pMc]

You'll stand by what you said even after you've been proven wrong.

There have been surveys of picks by position and showed the vast majority of Pro-Bowl and All-Pro tackles are taken in the first round, most often high in the first round.
Of course some R1 picks will bust out, that doesn't change the fact that if you want a good pair of tackles, you'll probably need to draft them early.

Say whatever you like about Rodgers and Favre, the GB OL has received very high pass blocking grades on a consistent basis for many years. There are football analytics sites that prove this, and believe it or not the eyeball test supports it as well. Watch some other teams' OL.

The Lions and Philly probably had the best OL in the NFC last year, and both beat GB. Neither team was a bottom-dweller last year and actually finished better than GB.
Jared Goff was patting the ball waiting for guys to get open, he had so much time. Would you say Jared Goff made his line better?

I've long ago come to the conclusion that you're either (a) fairly ignorant about the game and just a blind fan, or (b) you're a troll. Hard to say, your posts seem to ignore objective facts.

[sharpe1027]

Tex doesn't give a shit about anything that doesn't fit his predetermined narrative. It's a fun diversion to engage the stupidity, but ultimately pointless.

[texaspackerbacker]

You'll stand by what you said even after you've been proven wrong.

There have been surveys of picks by position and showed the vast majority of Pro-Bowl and All-Pro tackles are taken in the first round, most often high in the first round.
Of course some R1 picks will bust out, that doesn't change the fact that if you want a good pair of tackles, you'll probably need to draft them early.

Say whatever you like about Rodgers and Favre, the GB OL has received very high pass blocking grades on a consistent basis for many years. There are football analytics sites that prove this, and believe it or not the eyeball test supports it as well. Watch some other teams' OL.

The Lions and Philly probably had the best OL in the NFC last year, and both beat GB. Neither team was a bottom-dweller last year and actually finished better than GB.
Jared Goff was patting the ball waiting for guys to get open, he had so much time. Would you say Jared Goff made his line better?

I've long ago come to the conclusion that you're either (a) fairly ignorant about the game and just a blind fan, or (b) you're a troll. Hard to say, your posts seem to ignore objective facts.

Proven wrong huh? hahahahahahahaha

There's somehow proof that the line was great and they didn't just have good stats because of the QBs? Yeah right to that hahahahahahahaha.

I'll give you that it could somehow be the way ya'all want to believe, but cause and effect just can't be proven. Analyzing how good a block is? Nothing subjective about that hahahahaha - the QB doesn't get sacked and gets the pass away, and wow, it's great blocking, even though it sure as hell didn't look that way according to how the play went. Other teams? Oh, how about Brady's Patriots for many years and then at Tampa too. I think it's safe to say he didn't have the mobility to make his lines look overly good. I don't know, were they loaded with high draft picks?

The Lions have had that great reputation O Line for a long time, and they still manage to be losers. The Bears have had above average O Lines throughout their years as chronic losers. Philadelphia? I honestly don't know who or what kind of draft picks their personnel are, but it's a safe bet that Jalen Hurts had a lot to do with the perception that they were so good. You got any counter examples? Winners with mediocre QBs and "great" O Lines?

What I said is that a bigger percentage of O Linemen drafted early in the first round are busts? Do you seriously dispute that?

I've tended to give you the benefit of the doubt as fairly competent and civil - unlike the fool who posted just below yours, but sometimes I wonder about you too. Swallowing shit doesn't somehow make that shit not shit.

[sharpe1027]

See, pointless. Civil? After calling people shithead and similar names for months ya don't like when some so much as says the word stupidity?

[texaspackerbacker]

I expect that shit from a lowlife imbecile like you, sharpe, but runpMc has tended to have a fair amount of competency and decency in the past.

[King Friday]

I don’t think they will pass that much, mainly because I expect Love to run the ball at least 4-5 times a game.

[sharpe1027]

They'll probably pass more if the get behind often and have to play catch-up.

[sharpe1027]

I expect that shit from a lowlife imbecile like you, sharpe, but runpMc has tended to have a fair amount of competency and decency in the past.

Hey, being called a lowlife seems like an improvement over all the name calling you've been dishing out for months. What did I do to get in your good graces?

[run pMc]

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2020-offensive-line-rankings
https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2021-offensive-line-rankings
https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2022-nfl-offensive-line-rankings
https://lombardiave.com/2020/08/05/packers-david-bakhtiari-pff-tackle-rankings/

https://www.si.com/nfl/packers/news/grading-the-packers-on-salary-cap-curve-offensive-line
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32176833/2021-nfl-pass-rushing-run-stopping-blocking-leaderboard-win-rate-rankings
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/34536376/2022-nfl-pass-rushing-run-stopping-blocking-leaderboard-win-rate-rankings-top-players-teams

These are rankings and grades over the last three years that maybe 5 minutes of Googling got me.
They consistently list GB OL as being above average if not top 5 either overall or in certain categories like pass block win rate.

Those numbers are graded out independently of the QB, i.e., they measure things like whether the pass rusher is blocked for 2.5 seconds or longer, etc.

2021 was actually a down year for GB because they didn't have Bakhtiari or Jenkins (after the ARI game)...and they still graded out decent.

Bottom line: the GB OL has been good and still is. Disputing that is like disputing GB won 8 games last year - the numbers don't lie.
This will be an offense with a developing passing game with JLove and young receivers, but a very good veteran OL and run game. We'll find out not only if JLove is any good, but also how good of a coach MLF really is. Should make for some very exciting if unpredictable Sundays.

Love's first game will be quite interesting - on the road vs. CHI and Justin Fields. He might outplay Fields and GB still lose because they can't stop the run.
Very curious to see how the rookie receivers look in preseason in pads.

[texaspackerbacker]

Good job of researching hahahahaha. It's about like I woulda expected - as you say, not top five, but fairly good/above average. I do wonder, though, whether a. that 2.5 seconds is until the pass is thrown or contact with the QB is made by a pass rusher OR b. until the QB is flushed from the pocket. It kinda makes a difference. I also am not surprised that the level wasn't much lower without the sacred cow, Bakhtiari.

I did NOT blame the O Line for the Packers' mediocre record last year (I can just see these whiny "fact checkers" scrambling to find that I said otherwise - I don't think I ever did). It was, of course, the D as well as Rodgers and the receivers not playing up to the standard of previous many years that primarily caused the badness - and that primarily being caused by injuries and inexperience in the receivers.

I also substantially agree with your last paragraph, except you need to substitute "if" for "because". If Barry's competence as a DC is still where it was last year, they're in trouble - against RB runs and especially against QB runs. At this point, though, I'm optimistic that with all that outstanding talent, even Barry can put together a top flight D. As for Love, outplaying Fields is not all that high a standard, so he just might meet it. And if he does, I say again, the Packers are pretty much a loaded team otherwise - WRs, RB, hopefully now TE, hopefully the D, and yeah, even the O Line being above average (which as I said and some whined about, shouldn't make that much difference anyway hahahaha).

[run pMc]

You didn't look at it though, did you? 2020 they were ranked #2, 2021 #14 (because of Bakh and Jenkins injuries), 2022 #3 overall by PFF. That would be top 5 twice in 3 years, with an explanation for the other year. Individually, Bakhtiari (your so called sacred cow) was the #2 tackle in the league at pass block win rate, Njiman #1 in run block win rate.
if the QB isn't throwing the ball within 2.5 seconds, it's NOT the fault of the OL. They are metric independent of the QB -- in other words, your (a) or (b) does NOT make a difference. If the QB is not getting rid of the ball in 2.5s it's because he isn't doing something right, or nobody is open (i.e., the receivers fault), or both.

You continue to push false narrative about the OL being mediocre in the face of facts. It's dishonest and makes you less credible.

I agree the OL was not the reason the team missed the playoffs, at least not once they got their preferred lineup of Bakh, Jenkins, Myers, JRJ, Njiman going. Starting Hanson and Newman in the early games before Bakh and Jenkins could play cost them, but over the course of the season it was the D and the QB.

Re: the defense. Did you not notice they swapped out two veteran DL (Reed, Lowry) for a pair of smaller rookies, while basically forcing two unproven young players in starting roles? Has Devonte Wyatt proven he can stop the run? The Eagles ran for almost 400 yards on GB, do you think they will do better with rookie DL Day 3 picks? It doesn't matter if they can rush the passer when it's always 3rd and 2.

I suspect your level of understanding of the DL matches that of the OL. Maybe you don't understand line play, or don't care to. If that's the case you might want to not give an opinion you're willing to die on a hill for unless you actually have some data to back it up.

[bobblehead]

Love's best and worst games this year will be better than Rodgers best and worst games last year. His season overall will be better than Rodger's 2022 season.

[King Friday]

They'll probably pass more if the get behind often and have to play catch-up.

We were behind a lot last year.

[texaspackerbacker]

You didn't look at it though, did you? 2020 they were ranked #2, 2021 #14 (because of Bakh and Jenkins injuries), 2022 #3 overall by PFF. That would be top 5 twice in 3 years, with an explanation for the other year. Individually, Bakhtiari (your so called sacred cow) was the #2 tackle in the league at pass block win rate, Njiman #1 in run block win rate.
if the QB isn't throwing the ball within 2.5 seconds, it's NOT the fault of the OL. They are metric independent of the QB -- in other words, your (a) or (b) does NOT make a difference. If the QB is not getting rid of the ball in 2.5s it's because he isn't doing something right, or nobody is open (i.e., the receivers fault), or both.

You continue to push false narrative about the OL being mediocre in the face of facts. It's dishonest and makes you less credible.

I agree the OL was not the reason the team missed the playoffs, at least not once they got their preferred lineup of Bakh, Jenkins, Myers, JRJ, Njiman going. Starting Hanson and Newman in the early games before Bakh and Jenkins could play cost them, but over the course of the season it was the D and the QB.

Re: the defense. Did you not notice they swapped out two veteran DL (Reed, Lowry) for a pair of smaller rookies, while basically forcing two unproven young players in starting roles? Has Devonte Wyatt proven he can stop the run? The Eagles ran for almost 400 yards on GB, do you think they will do better with rookie DL Day 3 picks? It doesn't matter if they can rush the passer when it's always 3rd and 2.

I suspect your level of understanding of the DL matches that of the OL. Maybe you don't understand line play, or don't care to. If that's the case you might want to not give an opinion you're willing to die on a hill for unless you actually have some data to back it up.

It's kinda hilarious that you seem to think you or others in here somehow have better understanding of line play than I do. I'll maybe defer to Nutz and anybody else if they are or have been coaches. It was just junior high and a long time ago, but I actually have. Aside from that, though, as I said in an earlier post, shit swallowed is still shit - in other words, just because there is some media report or website or subjective way of judging things, that doesn't make it not still shit. Bakhtiari #2 at pass blocking at any time, before or after the injury, that just defies anything I have ever seen. And outside of here where there is this clique of true believers, most people I talk to see the same.

I guess it went over your head what I said or asked about the 2.5 second thing. The question is, are they counting until their is a sack or throw? OR are they counting until the pass rusher bolts past the lineman and forces the QB to get mobile - which happens over and over and over and over against the Packers O Line?

You, with your great understanding of D Line play shouldn't need this explained, but I will anyway: In Barry's D - for better or worse, and most D's these days are the same, run stopping is mostly the job of the ILBs. The linemen have a couple of gaps, but mainly they need to keep the O Line off the backers. They say it generally takes a few years for a D Lineman develop the strength and technique to be a good run stopper. Wyatt was good at a very high level in college, so there's strong reason to hope he will get good sooner rather than later. Slaton too should get a lot better. Lowry was never any good; Neither was Lancaster; Reed was a disappointment. I don't think those two new supposed D Linemen are meant to be replacements in the rotation for Lowery and Reed. The new guys seem more like pass rushers. I'm expecting Ford and maybe Slayton with a Y to be in the rotation along with just two big interior D Linemen being used a lot of the time. The goal is to not get to 3rd and 2 very often, and maybe sub in some bulk when you do. The hope for better run stopping ultimately is Walker getting better and maybe Campbell returning to form, that and maybe Barry figuring something out better than last year.

BTW, in case you missed it, I grudgingly agreed with you in my previous post that the Packer O Line is fairly good. What I stand by, though, is the relative unimportance of that one way or the other. As for dying on a hill, I'll do that every time for what I actually see, but NOT for bogus stats and shit opinions that some like to swallow.

Back to the thread topic, Love, if he is only marginally decent, they should dominate the Bears and Lions, and they should win more than they lose against everybody else. But will Love be decent? We can always hope.

[run pMc]

LOL yeah, you're wrong.

[Fritz]

I don’t think they will pass that much, mainly because I expect Love to run the ball at least 4-5 times a game.

Okay, this is how that first game is gonna go down:

Packers offense looks kinda disjointed - like it always does in the first game. But Love plays pretty well. Throws one pick in the first half, but mostly looks the part, though he does play it mostly very tight to the vest - doesn't take a lot of chances, lots of check-downs.

Packers in a tight game. Second half, Love looks more confident. Starts looking the part. Overall, he's having a pretty decent game, and Packer fans are encouraged. Joe Barely's defense plays kinda lousy - the usual defensive backs pointing at each other after broken plays, running backs gashing the Packer defense. But the game is close, but at the end of the game, at a key moment, Love throws a dumb, dumb pick and the Packers lose.

Packer fans panic after the game, despite the fact there were encouraging signs.

[RashanGary]

Okay, this is how that first game is gonna go down:

Packers offense looks kinda disjointed - like it always does in the first game. But Love plays pretty well. Throws one pick in the first half, but mostly looks the part, though he does play it mostly very tight to the vest - doesn't take a lot of chances, lots of check-downs.

Packers in a tight game. Second half, Love looks more confident. Starts looking the part. Overall, he's having a pretty decent game, and Packer fans are encouraged. Joe Barely's defense plays kinda lousy - the usual defensive backs pointing at each other after broken plays, running backs gashing the Packer defense. But the game is close, but at the end of the game, at a key moment, Love throws a dumb, dumb pick and the Packers lose.

Packer fans panic after the game, despite the fact there were encouraging signs.

It’s gonna be overreaction Monday for sure, no matter how it goes. But after half a season, with him being in his 4th year, we’ll have a good idea. I won’t overreact on one game, but I better see something good in 8.

[bobblehead]

Tex, I played OL (albeit D3). Im 5'10" tall and was 245 at the time. I understand leverages and footwork involved. The OL we have had the last 3 years is really good with the exception of injuries and especially mid game injuries. If they are healthy this year it will again be a top 5 OL.