How long does Gutey get?

[red]

honest question

love is his pet project. if love looks great, then gutry will go down as a packer legend for drafting him and getting rid of rodgers

but what happens if love sucks this year?

is this a make or break year for gutebag, or does he get a couple years to see if love recovers?

or do we keep him for a few years after his mind and body breakdown and he hasn't been able to do his job for a few seasons?

[Joemailman]

Gute has hitched his wagon to the Love Train. But I think he gets a couple of years. But if 2 years from now Love isn't very good and the Packers are looking at 3 straight losing seasons, it could be over.

[MadtownPacker]

This year and next year maybe a third. That’s the new world.

[red]

i was thinking this year and next, unless love looks really really bad

then the pitchforks will be out midseason

[RashanGary]

I’d give him another shot at a QB :lol:

[RashanGary]

I don’t know, I don’t love Gute. I feel like his drafts are just so/so. I don’t mind if we go another direction.

[red]

I don’t know, I don’t love Gute. I feel like his drafts are just so/so. I don’t mind if we go another direction.

thats kind of what got me thinking about it

his drafting isn't all that special, so if his biggest gamble doesn't pay off, do we have any use for him?

i say no

[RashanGary]

thats kind of what got me thinking about it

his drafting isn't all that special, so if his biggest gamble doesn't pay off, do we have any use for him?

i say no

This is pretty much it. I guess there’s a case to be made if last years draft and this years drafts are big hits in the long run. You can make
The case that he’s settled in and got his staff pulling in the right direction.

If these last two drafts are home runs, I wouldn’t mind him staying. But if these guys start falling off like all his other drafts and Love stinks, it’s over. Csnt do much worse.

[Fritz]

This is Guter's sixth draft. He's had some hits - about two a year, maybe three - but last year's class could be good. I'm not sold on the guy. I think we'll get a real read on him now that he doesn't have Rodgers here.

I do think Love is going to be his legacy. If Love turns out to be really good, then Guter's going to be around for a while. If Love turns out to be mediocre, then that pick will define him and I don't think he'll get more than a couple more years after this one.

I also think the Darnell Savage pick was one of his worst. Gave up, what, two fourths to move up? And took a guy who had never developed into a consistent, high-level safety.

So I think his reputation and career are based on how Love turns out. That wouldn't be so if he'd killed his other drafts, but he hasn't. Maybe last year's but the jury is still out. The other drafts show him getting two starters, sometimes three, but outside of Alexander, Gary and maybe Jenkins he hasn't hit any big home runs, I don't think.

[Bretsky]

Look at ALL this round 2 and round 3 picks. Not too improssive IMO

[Fritz]

Outside of Deguara, who isn't exactly a world-beater, Guter has absolutely shit the bed with his third round picks:

2022 Sean Rhyan
2021 Amari Rodgers
2020 Josiah Deguara
2019 Jace Furburger
2018 Oral Burks

Hell, you couldn't man an XFL team with that crew.

[Bretsky]

Outside of Deguara, who isn't exactly a world-beater, Guter has absolutely shit the bed with his third round picks:

2022 Sean Rhyan
2021 Amari Rodgers
2020 Josiah Deguara
2019 Jace Furburger
2018 Oral Burks

Hell, you couldn't man an XFL team with that crew.



Josiah is a nice 6th round draft pick. in round 3 he's a mistake. But he's still our best.

[Freak Out]

If Love and Watson sync up Gute is safe.

[run pMc]

Look at some of the other NFCN GMs. They aren't doing so great either. MIN jettisoned several R2 and R3 picks last year with the new regime. Talk about wasted draft picks.

I think Gute gets this year and next, same as MLF. If Love stinks and they can't at least be competitive they are gone.
Not sure what their contracts are like, but I'd expect that plays into it as well.

[smuggler]

I would think if the team improves from last year, even if Love isn't particularly good, he's fine. If the rest of the team looks bad, he could be in deep doodoo even if Love is good.

[King Friday]

I think he has 2 years to prove he can turn over the offensive roster successfully. In that time, pretty much all talent from the Rodgers era will be gone on that side of the ball. Gute has to prove he can maintain the OL and skill positions. This years draft seems especially big in that regard. If half of these picks pan out into above average starters, Gute will be safe. If a majority crash and burn, he’s in trouble.

[call_me_ishmael]

Murphy will give him an extension and new ores will give him one year and more if he does well. Eventually new guy will probably want to bring in his own people. They always do.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Gute has hitched his wagon to the Love Train. But I think he gets a couple of years. But if 2 years from now Love isn't very good and the Packers are looking at 3 straight losing seasons, it could be over.

Well, that cunty Gute just did it again. Stabbed LOve right in the back. A veteran Packer QB has earned the right to be consulted before the drafting of another QB. It's just a question of respect and good communications.

[jklowan]

Look at ALL this round 2 and round 3 picks. Not too improssive IMO

After this draft I'd let him go tomorrow :)

[jklowan]

No saftey, no OT and question d line players for our scheme and wtf on the QB

[Bretsky]

No saftey, no OT and question d line players for our scheme and wtf on the QB

There will be OT prospects in round 7

[King Friday]

There will be OT prospects in round 7

Not for the Packers…but we are now 27 deep at WR. Gute is really hoping some of these pass catchers pan out.

[Joemailman]

Packers went into the draft with 13 OL on the roster and 5 WR. So this isn't a huge surprise.

[Bretsky]

We need the numbers at WR; I normally don't like GB"s drafts.

But we have a shitstock of holes on our roster and I like this draft's ability to fill a lot of them.

[Joemailman]

Seems Gute trending up.


Tex Western
@TexWestern

Never forget that Gutey turned pick #45 into Reed, Wicks, and Brooks

Lily Zhao
@LilySZhao

Brian Gutekunst delivered with this #Packers draft class

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GDVRW3wXgAAcybs?format=jpg&name=360x360

[run pMc]

2023 looks like a really really good draft class. 2022 wasn't a bad class either.

The Jordan Love draft pick is going to be remembered as his defining one.

[Joemailman]

United States Sports Cards
@USSportsCards1
While I am happy for Lazard this is WILD!#GoPackGo

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GDclxAvXMAAXRbU?format=jpg&name=small

[King Friday]

Is that part of the BS that Rodgers needs the Jets to get rid of?

[Upnorth]

United States Sports Cards
@USSportsCards1
While I am happy for Lazard this is WILD!#GoPackGo

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GDclxAvXMAAXRbU?format=jpg&name=small

Now do one for mvs

[Sparkey]

I think Gutekunst, with his 2023 draft and how Love has blossomed, will be there a long time.

From a cap perspective, that will soon be cleaned up as best you can by 2025.

One more year in 2024 if eating some dead money for Gutes. Currently projected 5.8 million cap space for 2024.

2024 possible trade/cuts:

Bahktiari DM - 19 mil SAVE 21 mil
Campbell DM - 3.6 mil SAVE 10.75 mil (post 6/1)
P.Smith DM - 4.1 mil SAVE 12.4 mil (post 6/1)
A.Jones DM - 5.7 mil SAVE 11.4 mil (post 6/1)


I don't think they cut Preston Smith, he is too consistent and all around too good to get value on his cap savings. I think Bahktiari and Campbell are as good as gone although I could see them keeping Campbell just so you dont add dead money to 2025. Hardest one will be Aaron Jones. When healthy he is a huge difference maker, but you need guys more than 4 or 5 games a season when paying that much $$$. Never easy to find a RB with the balance and vision that Jones has.

[MadtownPacker]

After this season and how his picks are looking great he has a 5 year window.

[MadtownPacker]

United States Sports Cards
@USSportsCards1
While I am happy for Lazard this is WILD!#GoPackGo

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GDclxAvXMAAXRbU?format=jpg&name=smallGute should get a extra year just for this alone.

[RashanGary]

After this season and how his picks are looking great he has a 5 year window.

I count 14 good players in two drafts. I’ve never seen that. I guess if you csnt have a QB on a rookie deal, 14 good players on rookie deals is good too.

[call_me_ishmael]

I think there is no way they cut Aaron Jones. He is such a dynamic player. He will be back. I don't think he's fallen off at all. Why would they let an all-pro type guy go even if he is getting up there and injured a bit? He is a special player, just pay him appropriately.

[RashanGary]

I think there is no way they cut Aaron Jones. He is such a dynamic player. He will be back. I don't think he's fallen off at all. Why would they let an all-pro type guy go even if he is getting up there and injured a bit? He is a special player, just pay him appropriately.

Agree. Jones and Preston.

[run pMc]

I think they will do everything they can to keep both. I also think they will lean heavily into the draft for the OL and at RB to improve the run game. Keeping Jones would benefit them since he'd be a great mentor but also would be able to play early while the rookies figured out the offense and how to pass protect. I'd rather they keep Jones and draft two good backs than keep Dillon or Taylor.

Preston has one less sack than Gary, and he's been on a tear in recent weeks. He's been really great for the young EDGE players from what I've heard as well. I think he's still got something in the tank.

[RashanGary]

I think Preston plays a really good game between the ears. When he came out, he was an ELITE athlete for the position. Big, long, explosive, fast… He can decline physically and still be an NFL caliber athlete.

I cant find a stat that shows 4th quarter sacks, or sacks in key moments. I wish someone charted that, because I think Preston waits and waits on his best pass rush. He keeps setting it up and setting it up. Because that guy has a knack for bursting right past LTs at the best possible time right when it matters most. His sacks seem to be the game changing type more often than not.

[RashanGary]

I remember Reggie being like that. I was a teen ager and didn’t know shit, but I remember he was quiet for a bit and then layed down the damn hammer when it really matter most.

[Fritz]

I'm on board with the above priorities - keep Jones and Smith around next year. I just love Smith. He can set an edge and play the run, but dammit, he can get after the QB, especially, as RashanGary points out, in key situations. And Jones - I love to watch him run. He's got vision. Vision. He's a good, good cutback runner. Sure, draft a couple of RB's, but let them learn from the master next year.

And with injuries in the NFL, I doubt you're going to hamper Engabare's or Van Ness's development by keeping Smith around one more year. There'll be enough snaps for everyone.

We are in tune on those two guys.

And yes, I can see no reason to keep Dillon. Great guy, but he'll have to go be the mayor of someone else's county.

Boy, it sure looks like Guter hit it out of the park with the Love pick (didn't he even trade up to get him? I can't remember), with his last two drafts, and with the Rodgers trade. So I'd say he's probably getting free BJ's all over Green Bay right now. But you know how quickly public opinion can change - so he'd better take advantage of those while he can.

And Brestsky - you were vocal about the Pack passing on Tee Higgins to take Love. How you feeling about that now?

[RashanGary]

LVN - 5 sacks

Luke Musgrave - 352 yards, 1 TD

Jayden Reed - 912 total yards, 10 total TDs

Tucker Kraft - 355 yards, 2 TDs

Tay Wicks - 581 yards, 4 TDs

Karl Brooks - 4 sacks, 25 pressures

Carrington Valentine - 12 starts, 5 PBU

Gutey cooked

That’s 7 guys from one draft. I’ve never seen that.


Quay
Wyatt
Watson
Rhyan (let’s count him as a half)
Doubs
Tom
Enagbare (let’s count him has a half)
Rasheed


Another 7 last year. 14 in two years. I’ve never seen it

[Fritz]

That's a large part of the reason they're in the playoffs already.

That, and Guter (finally) trading Rodgers away and clearing the decks of whatever bile there seemed to be. The team just looked grim all the time - not a lot of fun being had, even when they were winning.

And the coaches, developing these young players. Though I'm disappointed with Wyatt - I thought he'd be much better than he has.

[RashanGary]

That's a large part of the reason they're in the playoffs already.

That, and Guter (finally) trading Rodgers away and clearing the decks of whatever bile there seemed to be. The team just looked grim all the time - not a lot of fun being had, even when they were winning.

And the coaches, developing these young players. Though I'm disappointed with Wyatt - I thought he'd be much better than he has.

Not to be a butt-hole, but I just saw this…. I don’t think he plays nearly the snaps of the guys he’s bunched with and doesn’t see nearly the doubles. Further, his pressures, just off impression don’t seem to really be noticed. But……

https://x.com/light_2610/status/1745656916712329527?s=46&t=nQImf8h3Oxzq2_jOx_kBGw

[bobblehead]

Not to be a butt-hole, but I just saw this…. I don’t think he plays nearly the snaps of the guys he’s bunched with and doesn’t see nearly the doubles. Further, his pressures, just off impression don’t seem to really be noticed. But……

https://x.com/light_2610/status/1745656916712329527?s=46&t=nQImf8h3Oxzq2_jOx_kBGw

My impression has been that Wyatt doesn't get enough credit or snaps. Maybe he blows vs. the run. But then so did most of the DL for the first 10 weeks.

[Joemailman]

Wyatt is good at creating pressure. However, he hasn't been able to turn pressure into QB hits and sacks consistently. He had the highest missed tackle % among front seven guys on the Packers. He needs to play a little more in control. He's close to being really good.

[RashanGary]

I know we all know the limitations of PFF grades, but they’re usually pretty reasonable.

Lukas Van Ness a respectable 64 pff grade for a rookie and 4 sacks, another respectable number for a rookie. Honestly, that being his starting point, it gives him pretty good odds to be a Rashan Gary level player. Maybe a little worse and maybe a little better.

Karl Brooks has been an absolute surprise coming in as a 23 year old 6th round rookie. He has an average starter PFF grade in his first year (67) to go along with 4 memorable sacks.

Devonte Wyatt is a little older for a 2nd year player (25) so maybe his upside isn’t much higher, but he posted an average starter PFF grade of 63 to go along with 5.5 sacks from the interior. He probably doesn’t see many doubles and he doesn’t play a ton of snaps so he’s fresh and can make those splash plays. Regardless, he’s a starting level player inside.

TJ Slaton has a respectable 65 PFF grade. I don’t care what his sack numbers are, not even gonna look. He’s a non factor as a pass rusher. But he’s a snap eater who has a respectable game on early downs and short yardage.

Enagbare has 5 sacks in two years from the edge position, which isn’t very good. He posts a respectable 65 pff grade. When you cross check his grade with the impression watching him, he does seem active and does a pretty good job being a bit of a hassle in the run game and as a pass rusher. It’s nice to have a guy who’s not a total dud to rest up the top 3.


You add the 5 young guys to Clark and Gary and it’s been a respectable front this year with potential to be pretty darn good next year. Preston has one more year of quality play. And you know what, I wouldn’t be shocked if he’s got 2 or 3.

If we get best case scenario growth from LVN and Brooks, we probably have a top 5 front next season.

[run pMc]

Wyatt struggles vs. the run. He was bad last year and better this year.
He's pretty good as a pass rusher as the chart shows. The other charts in the thread are interesting too.

I would guess being doubled would affect your pressure rate if not your grade.

[RashanGary]

Best case scenario next year

Clark - Very good
Gary - Very good
LVN - Very good
Let’s call Slaton/Brooks one guy - Very good

Preston - Good
Wyatt - Good

Enagbare - serviceable


I don’t think anyone’s a world beater, maybe LVN, but you’re looking at deep, strong group that’s really hard to account for because every one of them can win and they’re all rested. Where do you slide protection in this best case scenario. As an offense, you kind of always lose unless you have 5 really good starters.

[RashanGary]

That’s best case. Reality this year is they’re an average group. Barry’s best unit is average and his worst unit was disgusting. So back to the most important topic, Barry has done a good job.

[run pMc]

I know we all know the limitations of PFF grades, but they’re usually pretty reasonable.

Lukas Van Ness a respectable 64 pff grade for a rookie and 4 sacks, another respectable number for a rookie. Honestly, that being his starting point, it gives him pretty good odds to be a Rashan Gary level player. Maybe a little worse and maybe a little better.

Karl Brooks has been an absolute surprise coming in as a 23 year old 6th round rookie. He has an average starter PFF grade in his first year (67) to go along with 4 memorable sacks.

Devonte Wyatt is a little older for a 2nd year player (25) so maybe his upside isn’t much higher, but he posted an average starter PFF grade of 63 to go along with 5.5 sacks from the interior. He probably doesn’t see many doubles and he doesn’t play a ton of snaps so he’s fresh and can make those splash plays. Regardless, he’s a starting level player inside.

TJ Slaton has a respectable 65 PFF grade. I don’t care what his sack numbers are, not even gonna look. He’s a non factor as a pass rusher. But he’s a snap eater who has a respectable game on early downs and short yardage.

Enagbare has 5 sacks in two years from the edge position, which isn’t very good. He posts a respectable 65 pff grade. When you cross check his grade with the impression watching him, he does seem active and does a pretty good job being a bit of a hassle in the run game and as a pass rusher. It’s nice to have a guy who’s not a total dud to rest up the top 3.


You add the 5 young guys to Clark and Gary and it’s been a respectable front this year with potential to be pretty darn good next year. Preston has one more year of quality play. And you know what, I wouldn’t be shocked if he’s got 2 or 3.

If we get best case scenario growth from LVN and Brooks, we probably have a top 5 front next season.

Top 5 is a little optimistic, it depends on the fronts etc. they use too. I will say the arrow is pointing up. Not a lot of good DL coming out of the college ranks outside of those Georgia guys lately. The Newton kid from IL this year is decent but a bit undersized (6'3" 295). Brooks looks like a steal to me.
LVN has a long way to go on his developmental curve, from having a pass rush plan to getting used to a 2 point stance to more pass rush moves. He's built-in-a-lab athletically though.

Slaton is fine for what he does. He's easily their largest DL and pretty athletic for his size. Pass rush never was his game, but if he can hold up against a double and stay out of Quay's lap when he's trying to fill then you have something. I actually think TJ is a keeper. It's his first year as a starter.

Wyatt I feel like has less developmental runway because of his age, but you never know. He's gifted and he hustles, I'll say that much. I'd rather have him that Dean Lowry for sure.

Kingsley is EDGE depth. I don't think you want him starting, he gambles at times and isn't great against the run, but he has a knack for getting after the QB. He's fine as your ED3 or 4 for sure.

60 is considered approximately 'average' NFL for PFF score, it's not a bad grade at all. Most rookies don't score much above 60 if they get there.

Gute's done well lately. A lot of it is opportunity. The team was forced by the cap (and having all those picks) to play rookies, but I give him and the scouts credit for not picking a bunch of Ricky Elmores and J'Mon Moores.