Official 2023 Bury Joe Barry Thread

[Joemailman]

Dead or alive. Who cares?

https://fishofgold.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/200563630-003-man-burying-body-in-shallow-grave-in-gettyimages.jpg

[Bretsky]

he's just junk; but he's Matt's Friend so he still has a job

[texaspackerbacker]

Yeah, for one week, there seemed to be hope that he and the Packers D had taken it up a notch, but today it was the same old shit.

I watched the Cowboys game, and good as they are, I really don't think they have significantly if any better overall D talent than the Packers. The massive difference is in the scheme.

[Fritz]

I want that dude gone. A twelve point lead going into the fourth quarter, and you don't adjust anything to try to stop the run that was clearly gashing them over and over. Could he at least teach Rashan Gary not to bite so often on all those inside fakes?

Please ditch this guy. Supposedly him sitting upstairs was allowing him to see what was happening and diagnose things more quickly. So what did ya see in the fourth quarter, Joe? Your defense getting gashed again and again by Robinson, yes? Yet you kept those two safeties out there instead of going one-high and making Ridder beat you.

[run pMc]

Was it the play calling or the execution? I have to go back and watch again, but I knew going in ATL was a very good running team.
Missed tackles are still a thing, and there were questions about the run defense (at least I had some) coming into the season.

One thing I was curious about: isn't big Johnathon Ford on the PS? Why wouldn't you elevate him against a running team? (Unless he's also bad vs. the run)

Honestly, I thought the fact that GB's offense crapped out did more harm. Another FG would probably have been enough.

[Joemailman]

Was it the play calling or the execution? I have to go back and watch again, but I knew going in ATL was a very good running team.
Missed tackles are still a thing, and there were questions about the run defense (at least I had some) coming into the season.

One thing I was curious about: isn't big Johnathon Ford on the PS? Why wouldn't you elevate him against a running team? (Unless he's also bad vs. the run)

Honestly, I thought the fact that GB's offense crapped out did more harm. Another FG would probably have been enough.

I think a lot of people are wondering why Ford wasn't elevated. If he's bad vs. he run, he shouldn't even be on the PS because he's sure not a pass rusher.

[King Friday]

Barry has never led an elite defensive unit at any point in the NFL. That would tend to tell me he never will. The talent is available on this roster to achieve it. Go get someone who can.

As much as I hate Jim Schwartz, he would turn this into a top five defense overnight.

[run pMc]

Schwartz is the DC of the Browns.
Even if he were canned by CLE, he might not get an interview with a team like GB after his shenanigans as the DET HC back in the day.

Agree Barry has never done it, which isn't a great predictor that he ever will. He's had a few years with GB now, with a good amount of talent, and has been middling at best. IIRC this is the last year of his contract, so I think they'll give him the Pettine treatment - not renew the contract as opposed to firing him. Someone will likely shake loose at end of year who is a better candidate to take over. I hope.

One thing that would need to be a consideration is not making such a big change that your players don't fit the new scheme. There are probably some Staley/Fangio acolytes that could do as well as Barry who will be available.

[RashanGary]

Gary, VanNess, Clark and Slaton fit in any scheme.

[Joemailman]

Schwartz is the DC of the Browns.
Even if he were canned by CLE, he might not get an interview with a team like GB after his shenanigans as the DET HC back in the day.

Agree Barry has never done it, which isn't a great predictor that he ever will. He's had a few years with GB now, with a good amount of talent, and has been middling at best. IIRC this is the last year of his contract, so I think they'll give him the Pettine treatment - not renew the contract as opposed to firing him. Someone will likely shake loose at end of year who is a better candidate to take over. I hope.

One thing that would need to be a consideration is not making such a big change that your players don't fit the new scheme. There are probably some Staley/Fangio acolytes that could do as well as Barry who will be available.

Maybe Staley himself if Chargers keep struggling.

[Bretsky]

we have some stellar options at DC last year but kept the clown. Disappointing

[bobblehead]

I've had the hole in the Vegas desert for decades. I'm just waiting for the body to put in it. I mean, 8 miles from the city limits they don't dare start looking for bodies....it would create way too much work.

[bobblehead]

Schwartz is the DC of the Browns.
Even if he were canned by CLE, he might not get an interview with a team like GB after his shenanigans as the DET HC back in the day.

Agree Barry has never done it, which isn't a great predictor that he ever will. He's had a few years with GB now, with a good amount of talent, and has been middling at best. IIRC this is the last year of his contract, so I think they'll give him the Pettine treatment - not renew the contract as opposed to firing him. Someone will likely shake loose at end of year who is a better candidate to take over. I hope.

One thing that would need to be a consideration is not making such a big change that your players don't fit the new scheme. There are probably some Staley/Fangio acolytes that could do as well as Barry who will be available.

Speaking of assholes who are good coordinators, what is Greg Williams up to now days?

[Joemailman]

Speaking of assholes who are good coordinators, what is Greg Williams up to now days?

The guy you're talking about, Gregg Williams, is the DC of the DC Defenders of the XFL. Greg Williams is the Packers current Defensive Passing Game Coordinator.

[texaspackerbacker]

Is he Forest's illegitimate son? hahahahaha

I wouldn't mind bringing him in.

[run pMc]

They won't do anything with Barry unless the defense goes completely in the dumper, which I doubt happens. They have a soft-ish schedule. This is the last year of Barry's contract, they'll let him go and move in a different direction then ( i.e., "Pettine him")
I don't think Gute is impressed with what Barry has done with the defense so far, and MLF is a bit irritated with their underperforming as well. They aren't going to can him mid-season unless it's bad though. It's not the way they operate.

Also, no to Gregg Williams. That dude's time has come and gone, and I suspect there are still a lot of people who remember him from BountyGate and would rather not see him back in the league. There will be better hiring options available at end of season

[Freak Out]

Lead...on the road....against a rookie QB and he blows the lead. FIRE THE GUY ALREADY!

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Lead...on the road....against a rookie QB and he blows the lead. FIRE THE GUY ALREADY!

In defense of Barry, Riddler is actually a sophomore.

[bobblehead]

The guy you're talking about, Gregg Williams, is the DC of the DC Defenders of the XFL. Greg Williams is the Packers current Defensive Passing Game Coordinator.

Ha....didn't even know we had a Greg Williams already. Now I really want to hire the asshole just to confuse everyone.

[bobblehead]

Lead...on the road....against a rookie QB and he blows the lead. FIRE THE GUY ALREADY!

Worse, he blew the lead by not even forcing the rookie QB to pass the ball. But he is actually 2nd year, not rookie.

[Freak Out]

My bad. Still a horrible job. D needs to step it up with the #1 WR and RB gonzo.

[Joemailman]

Ha....didn't even know we had a Greg Williams already. Now I really want to hire the asshole just to confuse everyone.

I think he might be blacklisted from the NFL.

[Fritz]

I think he might be blacklisted from the NFL.

Joe Barry should be blacklisted.

Most people here are saying that they'll let him ride out the season, then fire him, and they are probably right. What that means, to me, is that the team knows it will not contend this year. If they thought they had a real shot at the playoffs if they had a better coordinator, you'd think they'd strongly consider canning Joe Barely now.

[NewsBruin]

I think he might be blacklisted from the NFL.

Possible bounties set on him.

[bobblehead]

Joe Barry should be blacklisted.

Most people here are saying that they'll let him ride out the season, then fire him, and they are probably right. What that means, to me, is that the team knows it will not contend this year. If they thought they had a real shot at the playoffs if they had a better coordinator, you'd think they'd strongly consider canning Joe Barely now.

Between rookies specialists, 1st year starter at QB, and Joe Barry we should get a top 10 pick even with a talented roster.

[run pMc]

This offseason Gute made a point of saying expectations were high for the defense this year, given the talent and draft investments made there the last X years. In fact, he said it several times.
I think that's more than fair for him to expect. I also think it publicly put Barry on notice that his job is very much on the line.

Firing your DC every other year is a bad look and will scare away prospective coaches, so I can see having some patience. Firing him now would be a weird look also - they've allowed 45 points over 2 games. They'd have to pay out the rest of his year AND find a replacement. Good luck with that. Nobody is going to be able to come in and institute a new scheme mid-season.

Barry wasn't a good hire to begin with (imo) and I don't think many outside the building were that surprised that the team has largely underperformed.
They'll let his contract lapse, bring in someone better (presumably can't do much worse) and hope they can get more out of the talent than Barry has.

I don't root against Barry or wish him ill. I just think he was a bad hire and I haven't seen enough to convince me otherwise.

As for drafting, based on the way the team has played I think top 10 pick would be a mild disappointment. I think they'll be picking between 10 and 18. (That would imply having between 7 and 9 wins.)

[SudsMcBucky]

Barry wasn't a good hire to begin with (imo) and I don't think many outside the building were that surprised that the team has largely underperformed.
They'll let his contract lapse, bring in someone better (presumably can't do much worse) and hope they can get more out of the talent than Barry has.



And pretty much all of Packerrats never understood the pick of Barry to begin with, so it's not like we're all reacting in hindsight. Just a terrible decision by MLF from the jump. It almost seems to me like MLF made a panic pick. He got fed up with Pettine and fired him. Then, Jimmy L turned him down. I don't know if he really had a plan B at that point and just went................Oh fuck!!!

[Fritz]

Evero was available, and several of us here were advocating for him. So he was a known possibility. MLF just made a poor choice.

I have been calling the FBI to see if they would raid Joe Barely's house, like they did the Bears' D-coordinator's house, but so far, no soap.

[Fosco33]

Matt Canada got fired mid season from the Steelers as OC.

Just sayin…

[Bretsky]

Matt Canada got fired mid season from the Steelers as OC.

Just sayin…



He was the best OC I ever witnessed for the Badgers. SO creative and innovative at a time when offenses were bland

[run pMc]

45 games of Matt Canada in PIT, 0 games of 400 yards of offense or more. Every other team in the league had at least 4 in that time.
Canada wasn't getting the job done.

Joe Barry have actually had a few good moments, but they are outnumbered by the bad. He's been given a lot of defensive talent and they are repeatedly ranked in the 20's. I think they should move in a different direction at end of season.

[bobblehead]

Matt Canada got fired mid season from the Steelers as OC.

Just sayin…

Didn't he put up 200 on the ground against Joe just a couple weeks ago??

[texaspackerbacker]

I'm just getting into the forum after the game, so I haven't seen other posts yet, but I would think some of the heat may be off of Joe Barry. I still probably would prefer a different DC for the Packers, but I'll give Barry credit for putting together a decent D game plan today and doing so without a lot of first string personnel.

[bobblehead]

I'm just getting into the forum after the game, so I haven't seen other posts yet, but I would think some of the heat may be off of Joe Barry. I still probably would prefer a different DC for the Packers, but I'll give Barry credit for putting together a decent D game plan today and doing so without a lot of first string personnel.

One game against a real D does NOT excuse nearly 25 games of blowing chunks.

Part of me wonders if he schemed better and played more aggressively because of all the young players in the lineup due to injuries. If so, he is an idiot for not playing his best schematic football at all times.

[MadScientist]

I'm just getting into the forum after the game, so I haven't seen other posts yet, but I would think some of the heat may be off of Joe Barry. I still probably would prefer a different DC for the Packers, but I'll give Barry credit for putting together a decent D game plan today and doing so without a lot of first string personnel.

The defense looked better in some ways but they still gave up 460 yards. Forcing turnovers and actually stepping up on 4th downs made the difference. An improvement, but not so dominant that it makes Barry look that great.

[texaspackerbacker]

My prediction before the game in one of these threads was that Love would be more good than Barry's D was bad. That pretty much came true, although the D was at least a little better than the worst it has been. I'm gonna double down and predict something similar against the Chiefs, although Mahomes' mobility will be a helluva lot harder to deal with than piece of crap Goff.

[Fritz]

One game against a real D does NOT excuse nearly 25 games of blowing chunks.

Part of me wonders if he schemed better and played more aggressively because of all the young players in the lineup due to injuries. If so, he is an idiot for not playing his best schematic football at all times.

I grudgingly must give Barry credit for the job the defense did in Detroit. He had a second-string secondary and the Lions only scored 22. That’s a good job, like the guy or not.

But like you, I did wonder where the hell this scheming has been all year long. So I agree with your post.

[Joemailman]

I grudgingly must give Barry credit for the job the defense did in Detroit. He had a second-string secondary and the Lions only scored 22. That’s a good job, like the guy or not.

But like you, I did wonder where the hell this scheming has been all year long. So I agree with your post.

His tendency is to play cautious, but he's shown the ability to come up with aggressive game plans. Maybe MLF needs to carry a whip to coaches meetings.

[Fritz]

It's weird that he only seems to scheme aggressively when pushed to do so by MLF or by circumstance, yet it generally seems to work.

Is it NOT being conservative, though, when he finally, finally lines up lots of big bodies instead of playing the dime when it's third and two? I'm confused about that bit of it.

[run pMc]

Barry is slow to adjust, but he will adjust. I'll give him that. They played surprisingly well vs. DET and looked like an inspired defense. I wonder how much of that was Rashan Gary playing out of his mind. He was very emotional for this game and is widely viewed in the locker room as being an emotional leader, so maybe that gave them a little extra fire today. The Week 4 whipping probably had something to do with it too, along with DET being national writer darlings.

There are whispers that the Fangio defense is being figured out by teams, and that many teams who have adopted it aren't successful because you really need specific playmakers to make it go. I suppose that's why Staley looked great with Aaron Donald and Jalen Ramsey.

I'm not convinced the way Barry calls the defense is smart given the Lions and Bears are run-heavy offenses. Why would you trot out 2 DL and leave the C uncovered to run up and block your ILB? That's just asking to get run off the field. I understand the idea is to make the other team walk down the field by playing soft zone and keeping things in front of you, but GB doesn't tackle well and can barely hand off covering routes that cross from one player's zone to another.

I am starting to have serious concerns Barry will be brought back. He seems tied to MLF's hip and the fact that they have held a lot of team's garbage offenses to 20 points or less is going to be a selling point. They still allow a lot of rushing yards and are a middle of the road defense statistically, and that's after playing bad-to-middling teams like CHI, DEN, LV, and ATL.

[bobblehead]

I grudgingly must give Barry credit for the job the defense did in Detroit. He had a second-string secondary and the Lions only scored 22. That’s a good job, like the guy or not.

But like you, I did wonder where the hell this scheming has been all year long. So I agree with your post.

He also put up a monster effort in the playoff game against SF when our ST allowed a blocked punt to lose it. He has had a few inspired efforts, but again, I can't get behind keeping a guy based on a good game here and there. Coaches preach "consistency" and rightly so. The plays where Myers gets blown up, and the lapses Yosh has tend to kill entire possessions. The game plans Barry has put together have lost us games. If they can demand it of the players we can demand it of the coaches.

[bobblehead]

Barry is slow to adjust, but he will adjust. I'll give him that. They played surprisingly well vs. DET and looked like an inspired defense. I wonder how much of that was Rashan Gary playing out of his mind. He was very emotional for this game and is widely viewed in the locker room as being an emotional leader, so maybe that gave them a little extra fire today. The Week 4 whipping probably had something to do with it too, along with DET being national writer darlings.

There are whispers that the Fangio defense is being figured out by teams, and that many teams who have adopted it aren't successful because you really need specific playmakers to make it go. I suppose that's why Staley looked great with Aaron Donald and Jalen Ramsey.

I'm not convinced the way Barry calls the defense is smart given the Lions and Bears are run-heavy offenses. Why would you trot out 2 DL and leave the C uncovered to run up and block your ILB? That's just asking to get run off the field. I understand the idea is to make the other team walk down the field by playing soft zone and keeping things in front of you, but GB doesn't tackle well and can barely hand off covering routes that cross from one player's zone to another.

I am starting to have serious concerns Barry will be brought back. He seems tied to MLF's hip and the fact that they have held a lot of team's garbage offenses to 20 points or less is going to be a selling point. They still allow a lot of rushing yards and are a middle of the road defense statistically, and that's after playing bad-to-middling teams like CHI, DEN, LV, and ATL.

Our D looked good against detroit for 2 reasons. We did use 3 down linemen most of the game. We also played with a lead and forced a running team into passing situations. Clark is still good at pressuring the QB when he isn't getting gashed for 10 yard runs because his only one of two down linemen. Gary was in absolute beast mode. Let me see them slow down KC before I get too excited.

As I have said many times, its symbiotic. When the offense keeps the D fresh the D looks better. When the D gets stops the offense plays with more confidence. When you complete passes it opens the run, and vice versa. On and on it goes.

[Fritz]

I really wish he’d play three down linemen more often. He did though at least play to Jonathon Owens’s strength by putting him in the box. The guy tackled well. He probably couldn’t defend my mom on a pass route, but he seemed good against the run that day.

[Upnorth]

10th in league points allowed. With 0 starting secondary....
Last year d came on second half.
I might like Barry right now. Chargers and Detroit are goodish on o...

[bobblehead]

I really wish he’d play three down linemen more often. He did though at least play to Jonathon Owens’s strength by putting him in the box. The guy tackled well. He probably couldn’t defend my mom on a pass route, but he seemed good against the run that day.

He would let your mom use the walker to gain separation. A good safety wouldn't let that happen.

[run pMc]

Hate to say it, but unless the D collapses down the stretch I think they bring Barry back next year.

They've done well in terms of scoring defense with a lot of starters hurt and a secondary consisting of who-dat's.

If they can him, who would they bring in? Evero? Staley? They run the same scheme... would be the same things. Maybe they play more 3DL or adjust faster, but a big chunk of the league currently runs Fangio stuff; it would just be more of the same.
Hiring Wink Martendale from the NYG would be problematic also, his scheme is aggressive but GB might not have the players for it. Not sure if Sean McDermott is on a hot seat. Saleh is probably safe bc Rodgers injury.

Gregg Williams is persona non grata in the NFL and Jim Schwartz is happy where he is.
I don't like Barry's performance overall but I'm not sure MLF is going to let him go for an unknown given their background, and if GB finishes top 12 in scoring D they will keep him. :(

[Upnorth]

If he shuts down kc, we have a bunch of wins ahead against teams that generally will make d look good.

I say we are definitely seeing Barry in 2024 unless d melts down sunday

[Upnorth]

3 top 10 o, 3 20 points allowed. That is not horrible.

They can't carry us, but aren't as bad as we worried

[Joemailman]

Seems the crowd is torn.



Bill Huber
@BillHuberNFL
Writing about the defense now and am wondering:

Let's say the season ended today. And let's say you were running the Packers. Would you fire Joe Barry?

Yes 49.5%

No 50.5%

[RashanGary]

Seems the crowd is torn.

I never said a bad word about Barry. I think it’s 90% players and 10% coaching. Dom Capers coached top 3 defenses and bottom 10 defenses. Depends on personnel.

[bobblehead]

I never said a bad word about Barry. I think it’s 90% players and 10% coaching. Dom Capers coached top 3 defenses and bottom 10 defenses. Depends on personnel.

It took him way too long to start using 3 down linemen. We were getting our 2 DL double teamed and crushed up the middle for 10 yards a pop all fucking season until Love started letting him play with a lead more. I fear that the first time we are down a score we will see the D getting run on again. He seems to need weeks, not halves to adjust. Same shit happened during our mid season losing streak last year.

[Fritz]

MLF had to basically tell him he needed to blitz more - was that last year, or two years ago?

And I fear you're correct - he seems to default to his two DL scheme once the pressure's off him. Weird.

[run pMc]

I think he gets better as the season goes on, maybe that's schedule helping. It's almost like it takes him half the season to remember how to call a defense. I saw someone post a theory that he's just good at copying from others, and it takes about that long into a season for him to see what is working around the league and copy/apply it to GB's defense. Not sure that's 100% off base.

The 2 DL thing is pretty maddening. Who cares if they aren't throwing it down the field if they can run it for 6-7 yards a clip every time (a la PIT)? You can still cover 75 yards in 11-12 plays and score that way. If I was an opposing team I'd call mostly runs inside the RZ, maybe include something that is a zone buster or will confuse the backup safeties/corners.
Agree they should use 3DL early, even if they are in nickel (I guess that would be a 'penny' front - 3DL, 2 OLB, 1 ILB, 5DBs). When you have 2 DL and the offense is running at you, who cares if you have two ILBs? Their angles to the ball carrier are shot to hell because the DL are getting pushed into them. Quay ends up with 17 tackles 5 yards downfield. (See also: AJ Hawk, Blake Martinez, etc.) At least with 3DL you can hold up at LOS a little better. Thing is, it puts a lot of pressure on the ILB to cover a lot of ground, but Quay is supposed to be rangy.

IDK, I just think there are holes in what/how Barry calls things. He's not a tire fire, but I'm not a fan. I will say they are playing what MLF calls "complimentary football" which matters. The D was supposed to help keep the team in games, and early they weren't great but overall they've largely done that. Most of their losses have been close. If he started out the year on fire and kept it going maybe I'd feel differently.

[RashanGary]

Gary, Preston and LVN are 280. Those are legit DEs. Except for the instances where it’s Enagbare or the other 5th string smaller guy that was playing, your whole 2 DL thing is kinda bullshit, ya’ll.

[Joemailman]

Gary, Preston and LVN are 280. Those are legit DEs. Except for the instances where it’s Enagbare or the other 5th string smaller guy that was playing, your whole 2 DL thing is kinda bullshit, ya’ll.

That's true, but they're standing up which is a less advantageous position for taking on a run block as opposed to a 3 point stance.

[run pMc]

It's also less advantageous when they are lined up as wide 9 techs, and the 2 DL are basically lined up over the guards. The center has an easy path to one of the backers. You're just asking to get run roughshod up the middle like PIT and DET did.

Also, Gary isn't exactly known for setting an edge against the run, or his run stopping ability in general.

[ThunderDan]

It's also less advantageous when they are lined up as wide 9 techs, and the 2 DL are basically lined up over the guards. The center has an easy path to one of the backers. You're just asking to get run roughshod up the middle like PIT and DET did.

Also, Gary isn't exactly known for setting an edge against the run, or his run stopping ability in general.

That is exactly what I was going to say. Having 2 of your DL standing in 9 or wide 9 leaves the whole middle open.

If you look at the film, we have 3 guys inside the tackles and are getting gashed up the middle.

[texaspackerbacker]

The problem with the Joe Barry D is not so much the 2 man line in his base D. It's the way they use the D Line - instead of stuffing RBs and plugging gaps, they are acting like O Lineman, trying to clear out and let the ILBs make the tackle. That basically gives the RB a running start and a wider area to juke and run through. That's a waste of Kenny Clark and Slaton, and it places too much reliance on Walker and Campbell. I was surprised to see that Quay Walker was in on 13 tackles, but where were they? Too often too many yards down field.

[bobblehead]

Gary, Preston and LVN are 280. Those are legit DEs. Except for the instances where it’s Enagbare or the other 5th string smaller guy that was playing, your whole 2 DL thing is kinda bullshit, ya’ll.

Its where they are lining up yo. If you have two guys weighing 700 pounds lining up at the 7 they aren't stopping the run if you have 2 interior guys at the 2's or near there. The C/G double one of them and the other G just has to wall off a guy. The RB is 8 yards up field before anyone can hit him.

[bobblehead]

It's also less advantageous when they are lined up as wide 9 techs, and the 2 DL are basically lined up over the guards. The center has an easy path to one of the backers. You're just asking to get run roughshod up the middle like PIT and DET did.

Also, Gary isn't exactly known for setting an edge against the run, or his run stopping ability in general.

Yea, what we said....But I don't think we are wide 9 with them very often. Close though.

[Joemailman]

Get Joe Barry!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLvGnro4Cgw

[run pMc]

^ accurate

[pittstang5]

With the winning streak over and last nights debacle, I'm hopeful Barry getting canned is back on LeFleur's radar. I was afraid that if the team, specifically the defense kept playing decently, Barry's job was safe. To have the stats or rather lack there of on defense against one, if not the worst offense in the NFL, I'm surprised Barry wasn't told to just stay in NY.

[run pMc]

4 games of over 200 yards rushing allowed. Supposedly no other team has allowed more than 2.

You can get away with letting the other team run the ball if you're up 14 with 8 minutes left in the game, but you can't get away with that if you are playing at SF or Philly in January. They will stomp you into the turf.

Barry does not have a track record of being an above average DC. Never has. Even a 'good' season for him is middle of pack.
There are times when he's had a good gameplan and players executed poorly, sure. From what I've heard he's regarded as a nice guy without an ego, not some kind of defensive genius. You can find better, but MLF won't.

[Bretsky]

4 games of over 200 yards rushing allowed. Supposedly no other team has allowed more than 2.

You can get away with letting the other team run the ball if you're up 14 with 8 minutes left in the game, but you can't get away with that if you are playing at SF or Philly in January. They will stomp you into the turf.

Barry does not have a track record of being an above average DC. Never has. Even a 'good' season for him is middle of pack.
There are times when he's had a good gameplan and players executed poorly, sure. From what I've heard he's regarded as a nice guy without an ego, not some kind of defensive genius. You can find better, but MLF won't.


Barry is junk; and as several have pointed out in here it was sickening how Flower immediately annouced JB was back last year and 2 weeks later Minnesota hired Brian Flores and 1 week after that Miami hires Vic Fangio.

Draft picks aside, the greater good...E.T.T. was a legit consideration ......if you want GB to ever win a Super Bowl getting rid of Barry was worth losing a couple more games in itself.

He is who he is, and so is Flower. Flower doesn't like making the hard calls. Think MAURICE DRAYTON, about the worst, yes, the worst ST ever to come through Green Bay. And even when firing him, Flower offered him a spot with GB in another capacity. Dang, he was so qualified, now he's stuck coaching college at the Citadel.

Odds are BJB (and that's Bring Joe Back) is happening and much frustrtion is ahead

[Fritz]

With the winning streak over and last nights debacle, I'm hopeful Barry getting canned is back on LeFleur's radar. I was afraid that if the team, specifically the defense kept playing decently, Barry's job was safe. To have the stats or rather lack there of on defense against one, if not the worst offense in the NFL, I'm surprised Barry wasn't told to just stay in NY.

Packers' special teams units had to be nearly historically bad to force MLF to can his last two ST coordinators; the odds are that he'll keep Joe Barely again. Maybe an epic fuckup - giving up a two-touchdown lead in the last three minutes of a game? - will push MLF to reconsider, but tht's not sure thing. I mean, giving up a big lead is, but not getting fired.

[run pMc]

They haven't given up a big lead, unless you count the ATL loss.
Hey, the Dolphins were up 14 with 3 minutes to go and lost. Imagine if Barry's D did that.

Barry likes to play 2 DL nickel, he likes to play zone coverage, usually soft or off coverage. He needs players who can quickly rally and tackle, and nobody seems to practice tackling. (Also, what is considered a legal tackle might change again, based on Troy Vincent's recent comments. Make it flag football, already.) He has improved at adapting in-game, but I wouldn't say it's a strong suit. Mostly his game plans are ok-to-good but sometimes poorly executed. He's not innovative. He's pretty locked in to what he wants to run, often without any situational awareness.

I don't think he customizes his system to the players he has, which is a bad move IMO.

He has a poor track record, and is aided by MLF running a slow paced offense which limits possessions and thus scoring.

There are lots of things I don't like about Barry's performance, and the defensive performance overall. This year they've been reflective of what they are: a team with a record just below .500. I don't think that's necessarily grounds to keep a coach, especially when they are consistently bad at certain metrics (run defense). I don't think they can reach the SB much less win one with him at DC. It's nothing personal, I just think he's probably best as a position coach than as a DC.

Speaking of underperforming, how about Bisaccia? Whoo, his ST units haven't exactly taken a step forward in Year 2, have they?

[Fritz]

They haven't given up a big lead, unless you count the ATL loss.
Hey, the Dolphins were up 14 with 3 minutes to go and lost. Imagine if Barry's D did that.

Barry likes to play 2 DL nickel, he likes to play zone coverage, usually soft or off coverage. He needs players who can quickly rally and tackle, and nobody seems to practice tackling. (Also, what is considered a legal tackle might change again, based on Troy Vincent's recent comments. Make it flag football, already.) He has improved at adapting in-game, but I wouldn't say it's a strong suit. Mostly his game plans are ok-to-good but sometimes poorly executed. He's not innovative. He's pretty locked in to what he wants to run, often without any situational awareness.

I don't think he customizes his system to the players he has, which is a bad move IMO.

He has a poor track record, and is aided by MLF running a slow paced offense which limits possessions and thus scoring.

There are lots of things I don't like about Barry's performance, and the defensive performance overall. This year they've been reflective of what they are: a team with a record just below .500. I don't think that's necessarily grounds to keep a coach, especially when they are consistently bad at certain metrics (run defense). I don't think they can reach the SB much less win one with him at DC. It's nothing personal, I just think he's probably best as a position coach than as a DC.

Speaking of underperforming, how about Bisaccia? Whoo, his ST units haven't exactly taken a step forward in Year 2, have they?

I was going to bold-face all the parts of your post with which I agreed, but there were so many there was no point. No, he hasn't given up a two-touchdown lead, but can his defenses be trusted not to do so?

If the NFL is supposed to be the pinnacle of football, then you'd think your coaches would be at the pinnacles of their profession. But as you say, Barry might be a victim/beneficiary of the Peter Principle.

His situational awareness seems . . . underdeveloped.

And no, he does not build a defense based upon players' strengths, I don't think. Exhibit A was not matching Alexander with the M inny WR (Jeffries?) in their first game last year, and the Packers getting toasted.

And yes, Bisaccia's special teams have been underwhelming. Disregard the new kicker and punter; the rest of them are not playing very well.

[Joemailman]

MLF, do what must be done.

[QBME]

MLF, so what must be done.

Must be done

[bobblehead]

MLF, do what must be done.

Outsource it if you have to. Send him a candygram. Whatever it takes, just cut him loose. Call Jolene. If she was hot enough to take Dolly's man, maybe she can take MiLF's man.

[red]

heres a mind for for you

so lets say we actually sack up and fire barry

who replaces him?

well we traded a guy this offseason who demanded all his buddies also get signed by his new team. he gets hurt right away and the team looks like shit after that

Robert Saleh is on the hot seat in new york. how awesome would it be if the rodgers trade also ended up bringing saleh to GB for a couple seasons to rebuild his stock with his little buddy?

[Joemailman]

heres a mind for for you

so lets say we actually sack up and fire barry

who replaces him?

well we traded a guy this offseason who demanded all his buddies also get signed by his new team. he gets hurt right away and the team looks like shit after that

Robert Saleh is on the hot seat in new york. how awesome would it be if the rodgers trade also ended up bringing saleh to GB for a couple seasons to rebuild his stock with his little buddy?

Rodgers is not firing Saleh. I wonder what the status of Ejiro Evero will be after this year. He's the DC for Carolina.

[run pMc]

Saleh or Evero would be upgrades.
No to Brandon Staley.

MLF's seat is probably safe, but Barry's seat definitely heating up after two weeks of horrible, terrible, no good defense.
They'll wait for Black Monday before making any moves.

Finding a DC who wants the job might not be easy, not unless they think MLF's job is secure for at least two years. Nobody wants to move, get fired after a year, and have to move again.

[Joemailman]

It will be interesting to see what Joe Barry can do to get Bryce Young's career jumpstarted.

[texaspackerbacker]

ABSODAMNLUTELY! Shit-can the bastard!

Yesterday was another thoroughly rotten game - any loss is. This one, though, was almost entirely on the D, and not even so much on the D players as on the DC/on the scheme/on the failure to adjust.

And we don't need some stale old piece of crap (stale as in Staley).

I'll throw out a name: Al Harris - doing a great job for the Cowboys coaching DBs, has Packer roots, and IMO would be coming from a better D scheme than we have now. Fire Barry quick and hire Harris before Jerry Jones snags him when Quinn leaves to be a head coach.

[Joemailman]

Time for some new ideas.


Wendell Ferreira
@wendellfp
Fangio-style defenses by DVOA:

Dolphins: 13th
Rams: 21st
Eagles: 22nd
Panthers: 27th
Chargers: 28th
Packers: 29th

If your scheme needs a combination of Jalen Ramsey and Aaron Donald or Fangio himself to succeed, I bring you some bad news.

[bobblehead]

To your post Joe (which doesn't show in a quote) I've always said the man outweighs the scheme. Schemes and concepts matter, but you can say its a "4-6" defense, but there is a lot of room to manipulate that idea. At the end of the day great minds make things work, not JUST great concepts. Guys like Andy Reid evolve over the years, but just keep winning.

I want a young smart guy who can exploit weaknesses. I love the way Bowles stops the run, then brings the house when you are in a situation that you pass from 90% of the time. Rex Ryan looks at an offense and says "hey, we can ruin them when they do this." Then he figures out when you do it.

[Fritz]

There is no reason to fire Joe Barely now. It just makes the organization look panicked, and the truth is, no new coordinator's going to be able to change enough to make so much difference that the Packers have that much better of a chance to win their last three and sneak into the playoffs. So no reason to can him now.

But the day after the season's over, yes, it's time. It's very much time. However, I am concerned that MLF will rely less on thinking about what would work against modern-day offenses and rely more on a network of guys he's worked with. That scares me.

I think Joe's point is a good one - the days of the Fangio defense being effective have gone by; the game has changed again. It's time, as Bobble points out, for someone who has a foundational idea but can scheme and adapt - both to what other teams are doing and to the strengths of his players.

I, personally, hated Buddy Ryan's defenses because the Packers got beat up by them, but I loved the idea that the defense was in control - they got after offenses and made offenses react.

Bobble said that well.

I'd like someone more like that.

[Joemailman]

MLF PC at 3:00 today. If Barry were being fired now, would probably be announced before then.

[texaspackerbacker]

As much as I hope, I doubt it happens. LaFleur likes the guy, or he wouldn't have let him hang around this long. I don't think he is gonna show him up/embarrass his worthless ass by firing him now. Besides, he'd have to answer a lot of questions about why the hell he waited this long. More likely, he will "retire" gracefully after the season.

Bring on a young smart DC to replace him, maybe Al Harris, and change the damned Barry scheme.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

As much as I hope, I doubt it happens. LaFleur likes the guy, or he wouldn't have let him hang around this long. I don't think he is gonna show him up/embarrass his worthless ass by firing him now. Besides, he'd have to answer a lot of questions about why the hell he waited this long. More likely, he will "retire" gracefully after the season.

Bring on a young smart DC to replace him, maybe Al Harris, and change the damned Barry scheme.

I am also in favor of hiring Harris as DC. Dude’s played /coached in so many schemes, he’ll make a sophisticated DC.

[call_me_ishmael]

Ha, sign me up for Harris. Been saying that for a few weeks now that I think he is going to be a stud in that role.

[call_me_ishmael]

Any chance MILF calls old buddy Jimmy Leonhard, or has that ship sailed? Kind of feels like some of the luster wore off JL.

[run pMc]

I feel like that ship has sailed, but ya never know.
Leonhard has been linked to a few college DC roles, but maybe he has an NFL job in mind. He was an analyst for IL this season, and mentioned as a candidate for MSU and USC DC jobs.

I wouldn't get my hopes up too high, but it would be interesting choice.
Honestly, they could probably get ChatGPT to do a better job than Barry.

[call_me_ishmael]

Rodgers is not firing Saleh. I wonder what the status of Ejiro Evero will be after this year. He's the DC for Carolina.

Didn't Denver just have a boat load of good players? I am skeptical that he'd be a net improvement. I don't know if I am just partial to former players or what but Al Harris sounds great. I dunno who the other up-and-comers are. I just want a guy that is a prodigy. Who is the next great DC in the NFL? Would Bob Salad come work with his former roomie? Maybe bring his brother while he's at it?

Why do the Ravens culturally have a great defense year after year despite changing coaches somewhat regularly? They're consistently consistent. How do we build that culture? They are clearly coaching and prioritizing D differently.

I would vote for Al because you know they're gonna man up and play aggressive AF every play. I want these guys shifting around and blitzing like crazy like the Rex Ryan Ravens did. Man up and rush the passer.

[Fosco33]

Jimmy Leonard should be an easy candidate

[Joemailman]

Jimmy Leonard should be an easy candidate

Leonhard. Not sure he's such a big deal anymore.

[Fosco33]

Joe Barry's Packers defense ranks in 2023

22nd in yards per play
25th in expected points added
22nd in takeaways
26th in passer rating allowed
29th in interceptions
22nd in sacks
28th in yards/rush
21st in scoring%
25th in adjusted net YPA
25th in third down%
31st in plays/drive

[run pMc]

Joe Barry's Packers defense ranks in 2023

22nd in yards per play
25th in expected points added
22nd in takeaways
26th in passer rating allowed
29th in interceptions
22nd in sacks
28th in yards/rush
21st in scoring%
25th in adjusted net YPA
25th in third down%
31st in plays/drive

and I believe they've dropped out of the top 10 in points allowed to about 17th. I'd have to actually be non-lazy and Google that, and also their Defensive DVOA ranking, but I've heard it's bottom quartile.

Barry has had 3 years to show us something that looks like improvement from Pettine, and basically it's been teases, disappoinments, and meh. I've been skeptical MLF would move on, but after two really bad performances you have to wonder.

Oh, and that DeVito kid the Packers couldn't sack? He was sacked SEVEN times by the NO defense, and the NYG scored a whopping SIX points. Imagine that - a UDFA 3rd string QB looking the part against a real defense.

[Bretsky]

Jimmy Leonard should be an easy candidate

WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER; Let's all say it together...........JIMMY JIMMY JIMMY JIMMY


Jimmy was a Raven and learned a bunch from their elite DC's
When Rey Ryan went to the Jets he said the first guy he wanted to bring in was Jimmy because Jimmy knew how to direct a defense
Jimmy was an elite DC at Wisconsin and was offered numerous opportunities to "upgrade" but Jimmy was loyal to the Badge
Jimmy referred to how GB was always a job he would consider, and the only job at that time he would consider
Jimmy gave such a great interview, that Flower close Jimmy over his Rose Bud and then settled on the RoseBarry after GB lowballed Jimmy with their offer

Now would I take Rex Ryan, Saleh, maybe...maybe Al Harris. MAYBE

But I'll take JIMMY JIMMY JIMMY any day of the week in Green Bay as our next DC

[Bretsky]

Leonhard. Not sure he's such a big deal anymore.

:crazy::bang::huh::???::shock::smack::bs::no::bs2: :

[Joemailman]

With his own coaching future on the line, is MLF going to choose as his DC a Senior Football Analyst from Illinois? Maybe, but I doubt it.

[Bretsky]

With his own coaching future on the line, is MLF going to choose as his DC a Senior Football Analyst from Illinois? Maybe, but I doubt it.



Is he of less value because he took this job ?

I would say this is an ignorant way of looking at the situation. Jimmy is getting paid over $1,000,000 this year from the UW Madison and he was pretty strung to take the year off and stay home with family/kids. He turned down better opportunities, but BB knew his pedigree and throw out a carrot and this gig allowed him to work on a part time basis and worked for him proximity wise.

[Fritz]

Is he of less value because he took this job ?

I would say this is an ignorant way of looking at the situation. Jimmy is getting paid over $1,000,000 this year from the UW Madison and he was pretty strung to take the year off and stay home with family/kids. He turned down better opportunities, but BB knew his pedigree and throw out a carrot and this gig allowed him to work on a part time basis and worked for him proximity wise.

Settle down, fellas. We’re fighting over who the next DC should be, and we haven’t even got the current DC fired yet.

Stay focused. Joe Barely sucks. Joe Barely sucks. Joe Barely sucks.

[NewsBruin]

There is no reason to fire Joe Barely now. It just makes the organization look panicked, and the truth is, no new coordinator's going to be able to change enough to make so much difference that the Packers have that much better of a chance to win their last three and sneak into the playoffs. So no reason to can him now.

But the day after the season's over, yes, it's time.

I feel too much like an overconfident messageboard fan when I say this, but if Barry's coaching is losing the team and would affect incoming/outgoing free agents, then it would be better to place the D with a caretaker, be that promoting someone we've got or bringing in a fired HC/DC.

I consider that a white flag for the 2023 season, but if it keeps our players from fighting each other, I'm okay with it. Maybe if everyone thinks he's a nice guy who juat isn't getting results, I'd understand running out the string with him.

[call_me_ishmael]

Is he of less value because he took this job ?

I would say this is an ignorant way of looking at the situation. Jimmy is getting paid over $1,000,000 this year from the UW Madison and he was pretty strung to take the year off and stay home with family/kids. He turned down better opportunities, but BB knew his pedigree and throw out a carrot and this gig allowed him to work on a part time basis and worked for him proximity wise.

Do you believe that though? I mean, it's a 4.5 hour drive each way. It's not like he's commuting. I'm sure they moved down there. (You would know better).

I'm not convinced he had a bunch of folks beating down the door to hire him. We shall see. If he got the job, I'd be pretty happy, but I also would be shocked if he got it.

[NewsBruin]

https://x.com/TheOnion/status/1736828235273429296?s=20

[Joemailman]

The thing with Leonhard though is that he's never coached in the NFL. Yes, I know LaFleur reportedly offered him the job once. But that was when LaFleur was in a very strong position coming off 2 straight 13-3 seasons and nearly taking the team to the Super Bowl. This year he may be coming off 2 straight losing seasons and will know he needs to get this right to assure his own future. I just think he's going to want someone with NFL experience. Not an experienced mediocrity like Barry. He won't go that route again. But a guy who has built a solid reputation with his work in the NFL. I think a guy like Al Harris would have a better chance than Leonhard. We'll see.

[Bretsky]

Settle down, fellas. We’re fighting over who the next DC should be, and we haven’t even got the current DC fired yet.

Stay focused. Joe Barely sucks. Joe Barely sucks. Joe Barely sucks.



ah, it's all in good fun. I would never brawl with Joe :)

[Bretsky]

Do you believe that though? I mean, it's a 4.5 hour drive each way. It's not like he's commuting. I'm sure they moved down there. (You would know better).

I'm not convinced he had a bunch of folks beating down the door to hire him. We shall see. If he got the job, I'd be pretty happy, but I also would be shocked if he got it.


The job allowed him to stay in his home in Monona, with part of his work remote there and part in ILL. I don't think it's 4.5 hours. But early on he was only there a couple days out of the week, Sometimes not even on game day. It fit his schedule and BB wanted another set of eyes. And the Eagles were itnerested in him but he decided he didn't want to make the full committment. He's getting paid a ton from UW; who can blame him for wanting to take a year off, or just work a bit. The gig with ILL is not remotely full time and he didn't want that

[Bretsky]

The thing with Leonhard though is that he's never coached in the NFL. Yes, I know LaFleur reportedly offered him the job once. But that was when LaFleur was in a very strong position coming off 2 straight 13-3 seasons and nearly taking the team to the Super Bowl. This year he may be coming off 2 straight losing seasons and will know he needs to get this right to assure his own future. I just think he's going to want someone with NFL experience. Not an experienced mediocrity like Barry. He won't go that route again. But a guy who has built a solid reputation with his work in the NFL. I think a guy like Al Harris would have a better chance than Leonhard. We'll see.

I too would be surprised if he went back to JL after he turned the job down initially. I don't think Leonard even knows what he wants. Before JL had all the control. This time, I think to him to have a shot he'll have to pursue the job and he's still pretty jilted by UW and unsure of the route he wants to go.


I haven't followed AL Harris much; what is his pedigree (besides Tank pimping him for a while, which kinda scares me) ?

I'd love to see a guy like Brian Flores or Vic Fangio; not pursuing them last year was Flower's motherload of F'ck ups. Rarely do you have "2" guys of the pedigree available.

I could embrace Saleh. Does Al Harris have this type of pedigree yet ?

[call_me_ishmael]

Just knowing Al Harris I just believe he is gonna be a dawg and be an exceptionally aggressive coordinator.

[Fritz]

I too would be surprised if he went back to JL after he turned the job down initially. I don't think Leonard even knows what he wants. Before JL had all the control. This time, I think to him to have a shot he'll have to pursue the job and he's still pretty jilted by UW and unsure of the route he wants to go.


I haven't followed AL Harris much; what is his pedigree (besides Tank pimping him for a while, which kinda scares me) ?

I'd love to see a guy like Brian Flores or Vic Fangio; not pursuing them last year was Flower's motherload of F'ck ups. Rarely do you have "2" guys of the pedigree available.

I could embrace Saleh. Does Al Harris have this type of pedigree yet ?

I think a lot of posters here are saying they're tired of retreads, in large part because those retreads mostly come from the same coaching tree/scheme, and that scheme is being unmasked by Kyle Shanahan and other offenses across the NFL.

As Bobble said, it's about finding someone who's figuring out how to counter what offenses are doing in 2022, not running a defense that worked three or five years ago. Someone who can also adapt based on his defensive talent, playing to strengths and covering weaknesses. Not someone who just runs "The Scheme" over and over.

This is where you wish you could listen in on the interviews and hear which guy is that guy, the one who's thinking ahead, the smart one who has a vision of his own and can communicate that vision to his players (ah, there's that "communication" word).

Al Harris would be a great story - as long as he's not the Bart Starr or Forrest Gregg of defensive coordinators.

[Upnorth]

Maybe we should keep barry. He was just named the nfc offensive player of the week.

(Stole this from reddit)

[Fosco33]

The thing with Leonhard though is that he's never coached in the NFL. Yes, I know LaFleur reportedly offered him the job once. But that was when LaFleur was in a very strong position coming off 2 straight 13-3 seasons and nearly taking the team to the Super Bowl. This year he may be coming off 2 straight losing seasons and will know he needs to get this right to assure his own future. I just think he's going to want someone with NFL experience. Not an experienced mediocrity like Barry. He won't go that route again. But a guy who has built a solid reputation with his work in the NFL. I think a guy like Al Harris would have a better chance than Leonhard. We'll see.

I just think of all of the defensive talent that he and others developed at UW. He makes the most out of the team.

Is he innovative enough to counter the latest offensive trends - I don’t know. But it’s been a long time since the Defense led this team despite getting the full tilt on draft capital.

As usual - it’ll probably be someone we’ve never heard of that worked w/ MLF in the past that he trusts.

I do think JL is a strong NFL DC candidate though and it seems like a good fit for both sides.

[run pMc]

Maybe we should keep barry. He was just named the nfc offensive player of the week.

(Stole this from reddit)

LOL
Well after playing Barry's defense, DeVito won the honor, and Baker probably will

[Joemailman]

I too would be surprised if he went back to JL after he turned the job down initially. I don't think Leonard even knows what he wants. Before JL had all the control. This time, I think to him to have a shot he'll have to pursue the job and he's still pretty jilted by UW and unsure of the route he wants to go.


I haven't followed AL Harris much; what is his pedigree (besides Tank pimping him for a while, which kinda scares me) ?

I'd love to see a guy like Brian Flores or Vic Fangio; not pursuing them last year was Flower's motherload of F'ck ups. Rarely do you have "2" guys of the pedigree available.

I could embrace Saleh. Does Al Harris have this type of pedigree yet ?

Not sure how highly Harris is regarded. He was asst. DB coach for 6 years in Kansas City under Andy Reid. Reid was his head coach during his playing days in Philadelphia. The entire Chiefs defensive staff was let go following the 2018 season after losing 37-31 to the Patriots in the AFCCG. He was hired by Mike McCarthy in 2020.

[texaspackerbacker]

Al Harris and his DB's for the Cowboys are indeed aggressive. Trevon Diggs last season and Daron Bland this year occasionally get beat, but they have been hellaciously good at jumping routes and getting pick sixes. They are good Corners, but I don't think they are THAT good. Scheme/coaching has something to do with it.

[QBME]

Al Harris is not the answer at this point.

[Fritz]

Al Harris is not the answer at this point.

He’s a better answer than Joe Barely.

[red]

Al Harris is not the answer at this point.

i don't know if al is the point or not, but i's rather give a young guy with the hope of him getting better a chance over a guy who we know is gonna continue to suck because he has always sucked no matter where he's been

[Joemailman]

Was listening to Andy Herman and Justis Mosqueda tonight. Justis believes Barry can still save his job. Herman doesn't. But Justis said "Joe Barry is just a vehicle for the kind of defense that Matt LaFleur wants to run." If that is true, doesn't seem he'd be looking to Al Harris. Evero or Staley would be better fits who came out of the Fangio tree. Maybe a guy like Leonhard who came out of the Rex Ryan/Pettine system. Justis mentioned Leonhard and Dave Aranda, who is feeling pressure at Baylor, as possibilities.

[Bretsky]

Was listening to Andy Herman and Justis Mosqueda tonight. Justis believes Barry can still save his job. Herman doesn't. But Justis said "Joe Barry is just a vehicle for the kind of defense that Matt LaFleur wants to run." If that is true, doesn't seem he'd be looking to Al Harris. Evero or Staley would be better fits who came out of the Fangio tree. Maybe a guy like Leonhard who came out of the Rex Ryan/Pettine system. Justis mentioned Leonhard and Dave Aranda, who is feeling pressure at Baylor, as possibilities.


OF COURSE he can save his job. Does anybody listen to Flower making excuses for his bestie ? And we play three garbage offenses in a row. Imaging if we hold Carolina to single digits (which we might, and then go beat Minnesots....maybe even Chicago. He could easily be back. LAST Year, the day after the season he noted BarryBall was coming back but they were going to modify the schmes and look to play more pressure/man defense. So he brought a guy back, cause he's soft, who believes in this zone ball, wanting to go more away form the scheme. It makes NO sense

DID YOU KNOW
We have up 190 years passing last week when our CB's playing soft (it was defined, I think, as being 7 yards off the scrimmage.
AND, Baker was 20 fro 23 when we were in zone coverage.

CHEWY was a TON of money partying with friends and placing bet after bet on 2nd and long, 3rd and long..etc...that GB defense would give up the first down. Sounded like fun giving it a try. But he won $$$ betting against our defense all day.

The Embrace the Tank Bus still has a "few" openings for the greater good. We've got cocktails and plent of munchies.

But it'll be full soon and all you wanna be JoeBarry detractors just may need to cheer for him for all of next year as well. f

[Sparkey]

Eric Henderson from the Rams is a sleeper candidate for Packers DC, if and when Barry is let go.

[bobblehead]

Was listening to Andy Herman and Justis Mosqueda tonight. Justis believes Barry can still save his job. Herman doesn't. But Justis said "Joe Barry is just a vehicle for the kind of defense that Matt LaFleur wants to run." If that is true, doesn't seem he'd be looking to Al Harris. Evero or Staley would be better fits who came out of the Fangio tree. Maybe a guy like Leonhard who came out of the Rex Ryan/Pettine system. Justis mentioned Leonhard and Dave Aranda, who is feeling pressure at Baylor, as possibilities.

Leonard, Bowles, Saleh. I would be very happy with one of them. I'm sure there are others I'm not thinking of.

[bobblehead]

OF COURSE he can save his job. Does anybody listen to Flower making excuses for his bestie ? And we play three garbage offenses in a row. Imaging if we hold Carolina to single digits (which we might, and then go beat Minnesots....maybe even Chicago. He could easily be back. LAST Year, the day after the season he noted BarryBall was coming back but they were going to modify the schmes and look to play more pressure/man defense. So he brought a guy back, cause he's soft, who believes in this zone ball, wanting to go more away form the scheme. It makes NO sense

DID YOU KNOW
We have up 190 years passing last week when our CB's playing soft (it was defined, I think, as being 7 yards off the scrimmage.
AND, Baker was 20 fro 23 when we were in zone coverage.

CHEWY was a TON of money partying with friends and placing bet after bet on 2nd and long, 3rd and long..etc...that GB defense would give up the first down. Sounded like fun giving it a try. But he won $$$ betting against our defense all day.

The Embrace the Tank Bus still has a "few" openings for the greater good. We've got cocktails and plent of munchies.

But it'll be full soon and all you wanna be JoeBarry detractors just may need to cheer for him for all of next year as well. f

The ETT is working in the best way possible. Losing because Barry is shit, but Love and the young offense getting better. Its more fun winning, but if we must lose, that was ideal.

[Joemailman]

Even if the Packers make the playoffs, I think Barry is gone. Most think he's on the last year of his contract. So they don't even have to fire him. They can just let his contract expire and "decide to go in another direction". Or Barry could resign to spend more time with his family.

[call_me_ishmael]

Leonard, Bowles, Saleh. I would be very happy with one of them. I'm sure there are others I'm not thinking of.

Yeah, I'd be happy with this too. I guess I just don't believe TB is getting fired in Tampa right now since they are rebuilding, and then I suspect NYJ just pretend this year didn't count and Bob Salad is back.

Given the above, I am squarely in team Leonhard or team Harris camp. I'd be happy with either. I think I'd probably lean towards Leonhard given his time with Rex Ryan and that extremely aggressive style of defense. That said - is he a firey guy like Rex? Is Al? I want somebody that is intense like Antonio Pierce that can set the tone.

List of candidates.
https://www.si.com/nfl/packers/news/13-defensive-coordinator-candidates-if-joe-barry-fired

[texaspackerbacker]

Position coaches maybe should be that kind of "intense" guy, but the DC needs to have and use a brain. Who was that doofus (I think he has since died) that some in here (you?) wanted as Packer DC? Sheesh.

Al Harris coaches in the much acclaimed Dan Quinn D scheme. Consider what he has done with the DBs there in contrast for example to Jerry Gray in Green Bay. The most likely scenario if Quinn becomes a head coach, as many think, is that Jerry Jones keeps Harris in Dallas as DC, but it would be nice if the Packers snagged him first.

[call_me_ishmael]

I sincerely doubt Dan Quinn gets another HC job. He's in the perfect spot

[texaspackerbacker]

If you're right, which I doubt, that would make it more likely the Packers could get him for DC.

[call_me_ishmael]

If you're right, which I doubt, that would make it more likely the Packers could get him for DC.

Dan Quinn? Why would he leave Dallas if he's thriving. Maybe down the road when his message inevitably gets old and he gets recycled. Al Harris? Yes, I agree it makes it more likely.

Why would anyone hire DQ as a head coach when he's been there, done that, and shown he's not great at it?

[bobblehead]

"Joe Barry. The same Joe Barry who led the 2008 Detroit Lions 0-16 defense and never produced a top-20 defense in any stint as defensive coordinator."

Came across this in an article. It says a lot.

[bobblehead]

Even if the Packers make the playoffs, I think Barry is gone. Most think he's on the last year of his contract. So they don't even have to fire him. They can just let his contract expire and "decide to go in another direction". Or Barry could resign to spend more time with his family.

What if we play SF and he shuts them down again. What if he allows like 6 points, but ST costs us the game? Do they bring him back then?

[Sparkey]

What if we play SF and he shuts them down again. What if he allows like 6 points, but ST costs us the game? Do they bring him back then?

So that standard is "every now and then" ?

[red]

"Joe Barry. The same Joe Barry who led the 2008 Detroit Lions 0-16 defense and never produced a top-20 defense in any stint as defensive coordinator."

Came across this in an article. It says a lot.

Yet when Larry was interviewing coach jr on the jr coaches hour, matty said he believes that the defense can “return” to the high level it’s been at in the past.

Larry did not follow up with the question, “when the fuck was that”?

[Joemailman]

What if we play SF and he shuts them down again. What if he allows like 6 points, but ST costs us the game? Do they bring him back then?

Hopefully Matt's answer would be:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHhrZgojY1Q

[Bretsky]

I sincerely doubt Dan Quinn gets another HC job. He's in the perfect spot


And who is the top Associate DC there ? A former Packer guy who many kinda liked, Him coming back to GB would not be that surprising either

[Bretsky]

Yeah, I'd be happy with this too. I guess I just don't believe TB is getting fired in Tampa right now since they are rebuilding, and then I suspect NYJ just pretend this year didn't count and Bob Salad is back.

Given the above, I am squarely in team Leonhard or team Harris camp. I'd be happy with either. I think I'd probably lean towards Leonhard given his time with Rex Ryan and that extremely aggressive style of defense. That said - is he a firey guy like Rex? Is Al? I want somebody that is intense like Antonio Pierce that can set the tone.

List of candidates.
https://www.si.com/nfl/packers/news/13-defensive-coordinator-candidates-if-joe-barry-fired




WINK is the top dog out of those dudes IMO

I'll take Jimmy Jimmy Jimmy Jimmy or the Carolina DC as my 2nd and 3rd choices

I think I'd also take Whit over Al Harris

[Bretsky]

[QUOTE=Bretsky;1147593]

Joe Whitt might be ok; but I don't wanna hire wild cards.

I'd also be happy with Saleh, and Bowles as Bobble noted

[call_me_ishmael]

WINK is the top dog out of those dudes IMO

I'll take Jimmy Jimmy Jimmy Jimmy or the Carolina DC as my 2nd and 3rd choices

I think I'd also take Whit over Al Harris

Yep agreed, I just doubt he gets fired. If he does, I can see where this is appealing since his stated goal is to become an HC. Making the inept Packers D good would show excellent coaching.

[texaspackerbacker]

If you're right, which I doubt, that would make it more likely the Packers could get him for DC.

I guess I didn't make that very clear hahahaha. I was speaking of Al Harris.

[RashanGary]

Kelvin Sheppard looks interesting. Up and comer.

[run pMc]

List of candidates.
https://www.si.com/nfl/packers/news/...oe-barry-fired


Yuck, mostly. Also, just a listicle to fill digital space and a deadline.

[run pMc]

Kelvin Sheppard looks interesting. Up and comer.

Meh. Detroit's D went from really bad to decent over last season, and has regressed this year. I'm not sold on it. They win because of their offense (their OL, specifically) and when Aidan Hutchinson can disrupt a play or two.
There are a lot of coaches and coaching staffs that will get fired on Black Monday. More and possibly better candidates could emerge.

[QBME]

Just knowing Al Harris I just believe he is gonna be a dawg and be an exceptionally aggressive coordinator.

I went back on the thread posts and didn't know where exactly where to pick it up.

In any case....

I put my alleged mind to it and tried to remember any former NFL player that returned to his former team as a coach and was even respectable.

As noted earlier, for the Packers failed tenures are Bart Starr and Forrest Gregg.

After some rumination I can only come up with:

George Halas - yeah maybe a stretch but he did play for the Decaurter Staleys then bought them, moved to Chicago started the NFL and the freakin'n Bears became a power house.

Art Shell - Oakland Raiders - Never won an Owl, pretty damn successful.

Tom Flores - Oakland Raiders....IBID

Some of the um, more experienced posters here will probably come up with other examples (PB Max where art thou?) but letting fanboy shit get in the way makes no sense.

[Joemailman]

I went back on the thread posts and didn't know where exactly where to pick it up.

In any case....

I put my alleged mind to it and tried to remember any former NFL player that returned to his former team as a coach and was even respectable.

As noted earlier, for the Packers failed tenures are Bart Starr and Forrest Gregg.

After some rumination I can only come up with:

George Halas - yeah maybe a stretch but he did play for the Decaurter Staleys then bought them, moved to Chicago started the NFL and the freakin'n Bears became a power house.

Art Shell - Oakland Raiders - Never won an Owl, pretty damn successful.

Tom Flores - Oakland Raiders....IBID

Some of the um, more experienced posters here will probably come up with other examples (PB Max where art thou?) but letting fanboy shit get in the way makes no sense.

Mike Ditka

[Fritz]

Mike Ditka

Curly Lambeau. Maybe Dick LeBeau - I can't remember where he coached, but he played in Detroit, for one.

[Joemailman]

Curly Lambeau. Maybe Dick LeBeau - I can't remember where he coached, but he played in Detroit, for one.

Surprisingly, LeBeau never coached the Lions. If coordinators got in the HOF, he might be in for coaching as well as being in as a player.

[run pMc]

Dan Quinn is not leaving Dallas unless someone throws a HC gig at him. He's got a good defense on a playoff bound team that -- with luck in the playoffs - could avoid SF and make it. Unlikely, but still. Why would you leave that team unless it was for a HC job?

What has Al Harris done? Does he have experience making calls? I love the dude, but he's a DB coach, that's a jump to DC. DAL has a passing game coordinator already (Whitt), so M3 is basically the boss of Harris' bosses boss. That would be a hell of a jump.
Joe Whitt was here and I didn't get the sense he was happy when he left. Wasn't that under Pettine? Would he really come back? Dude made chicken salad out of you know what in the secondary a few times, but... I dunno. I think he's about where he should be.

Time to get someone new. No old retreads please.

Go out there and Google Joe Barry Washinton defense -- the stories of him being fired read like our current complaints. I don't understand why they thought hiring him would be much different, unless they thought the defensive talent was that much better.
I mean, yeah talent matters a lot. Coaching matters too. Gotta have both to be successful.

Barry seems like a nice guy and I hear he's great in the building, but I wonder if he's just garbage at teaching or -- possibly the issue - play calling. MLF presumably meets with the coaching staff to go review and approve gameplans, so Barry must be able to put those together. Play calling in game is something of an art (so I've been told) and some people are better than others. I suspect adjusting on the fly is a big part of that. I do wonder if he's just really bad at that.

As for him being fired... it's funny, after KC, I thought he was safe, what a difference 2 games makes. MLF no longer back him up unequivocally in press conferences, so I suspect he's gone after the season. That's when it makes sense to let him go and find who else is out there. Right now there's nobody worth bringing in for 2-3 games, and there's nobody on the staff who really seems like they could run the defense and make calls. That last point, to me, stands out as something of an indictment of the coaches -- the fact that there's nobody who has shown enough to be a successor or latch on to another team tells me they either aren't good at developing coaches or the coaches stink. (Probably extends to inability to develop players as well.)

[bobblehead]

So, not to get banned, but this was too funny. A friend if mine texted me saying that the only thing FJB stands for anymore is fire joe barry.

[call_me_ishmael]

Ed Donatell went from Denvers secondary coach to a great DC in GB. It's not unusual.

[texaspackerbacker]

I remember when a LOT of people in here (definitely not me) wanted Kevin Greene for DC. He was a rah rah guy, seemingly intense and good at firing up D players. I saw him as not very cerebral at all. That intensity may be important for position coaches, but the DC needs to be able to think - strategize, teach developing players, etc. Ideally we get somebody who is both. Barry seems to be neither.

I advocated Al Harris because of the apparent way he developed DBs and schemed their use in Dallas. It's a good point, though, that Joe Whitt is available. He of course, also has a Green Bay background, and who knows, maybe he, not Harris is primarily responsible for success of the DBs since McCarthy took over the Cowboys.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Ed Donatell went from Denvers secondary coach to a great DC in GB. It's not unusual.

Ridiculous posts like the above is where I, the official Packerrats Packers historian, need to chime in.

Donatell succeeded Emmitt Thomas, the only 2nd Black DC in Packers history, and DCed the Packers from 2000-2003. While the Packer never missed the playoffs with Donatell DC-ing the D, he is best known for his playoffs infamies, most notably, allowing 45 points to the Greatest Show On Turf (although, in his defense, Bert Favor threw 6 picks in that game), allowing Mike Vick to slaughter the Pack defense as if it was a bunch of useless dogs, and 4th and 26.

Great my ass.

[Fritz]

Gotta agree with APB. Donatell was doo doo.

[King Friday]

Ed was better than Barry, but he wasn’t great.

[George Cumby]

Ed was better than Barry, but he wasn’t great.

But who is worse, Barry or Slowik?

[King Friday]

But who is worse, Barry or Slowik?

Barry. He has better players. Slowik was also horrific in the performance category, but he didn’t have 8 first round picks playing for him.

[George Cumby]

Barry. He has better players. Slowik was also horrific in the performance category, but he didn’t have 8 first round picks playing for him.

I contend there's enough talent at every level of defense to be Top 10, if not higher. That's why the results are so horrifyingly perplexing.

[Bretsky]

But who is worse, Barry or Slowik?

and don't forget about Bob Sanders

[bobblehead]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/matt-lafleur-is-putting-his-own-job-at-risk/ar-AA1lZhUH?ocid=msedgntp&pc=LCTS&cvid=86817d3af52747e3a993912ac6a2b27e&ei=14

A decent read. The world sees the problem.

[red]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/matt-lafleur-is-putting-his-own-job-at-risk/ar-AA1lZhUH?ocid=msedgntp&pc=LCTS&cvid=86817d3af52747e3a993912ac6a2b27e&ei=14

A decent read. The world sees the problem.

I was saying that this offseason when he decided to keep him

Lefleurs job absolutely should be on the line for hiring the reject in the first place and then keeping him for this season

We should be on year one of a new d-cord during this rebuilding year

Instead, best case scenario, the offense is ready to go full speed next season, but the defense is learning a new system

[bobblehead]

Well, its Christmas morning and my wish list didn't get filled unless I missed the headline where Barry got canned.

[Joemailman]

Chris Hewitt, the Ravens Secondary/Passing Game Coordinator could be a DC candidate.

[Fritz]

Todd Rundgren once had an album called Something/Anything.

[Joemailman]

How bad is Joe Barry's defense? Jordan Love has 13 TD passes and 1 INT in last 6 games and Packers are an underdog to a team on their 4th starting QB.

[MadtownPacker]

Damn that is bad. Even worse it’s probably correct after the panthers clawed thru the D.

[George Cumby]

Todd Rundgren once had an album called Something/Anything.

Don't forget "Barely Human".......seems like there's a play on words there........ "Barry Human" or something.

[Fritz]

That defense is a shitshow. It's beyond not playing well - now Jaire is kinda sorta throwing Barely under the bus while pretending not to, Devondre Campbell - previously seen as a good leader and good guy - has now blown up. That awesome "let it all out" defensive meeting The Flower talked about from before the Panthers game clearly didn't change the results the defense produces.

No, I'm pretty damn sure Joe Barely is gone after the season ends.

[bobblehead]

That defense is a shitshow. It's beyond not playing well - now Jaire is kinda sorta throwing Barely under the bus while pretending not to, Devondre Campbell - previously seen as a good leader and good guy - has now blown up. That awesome "let it all out" defensive meeting The Flower talked about from before the Panthers game clearly didn't change the results the defense produces.

No, I'm pretty damn sure Joe Barely is gone after the season ends.

I rewatched the game. On the first series we got 2 three and outs (because of a ST penalty). We had 3 down linemen. We rushed 5 and even 6 on passing downs. THE MEETING WAS WORKING!!

Then we went right back to what we had been doing previous weeks. I just think he is too old to change.

[Fritz]

I rewatched the game. On the first series we got 2 three and outs (because of a ST penalty). We had 3 down linemen. We rushed 5 and even 6 on passing downs. THE MEETING WAS WORKING!!

Then we went right back to what we had been doing previous weeks. I just think he is too old to change.

Hmmm. Saw a headline saying the blitzing didn’t work. But frankly I believe you over a “content creator” trying to get clicks.

[bobblehead]

Hmmm. Saw a headline saying the blitzing didn’t work. But frankly I believe you over a “content creator” trying to get clicks.

I mean...he was sacked on a 5 man blitz and then forced to throw too fast and missed Thielen wide open on a 6 man to start the game. The rest of the first half I never saw more than 4 going after him. Maybe it failed in the 2nd half that I didn't watch yet.

Another note....DeGuerra threw some pretty nice blocks in the first half. He was central to the Jones outburst early.

[RashanGary]

The Packers have given up an average of 75 yards per game rushing the last two games that the pitch forks really came out for Joe Barry’s head.

It’s funny how when he was giving up 150 rushing people bitched and whined that if he invested heavier in stopping the run all would be cured. But then as soon as he invested more to stop the run, it got even uglier.

It’s almost like Joe Barry already knew the reality that the passing game can shred you up so much worse and it’s better to limit big chunks.


He’s not a great coach, but fans are so ridiculous with thinking they know it all. It’s funny to see how bad it got when Barely did what you guys were begging him to do.



Same goes for the idiotic (get aggressive, play man defense) bullshit fans bellow about. Ha. As soon as you do that, this isn’t 1992 anymore. Rule changes have made primary man defense irrelevant. As soon as you do that, you’re gonna get gouged so bad, you’ll never win a game. But fans know it all. These coaches are big dummies. The real geniuses are sitting on their couch drinking beer and munching on Tostitos and Buffalo chicken dip.

[RashanGary]

Carrington 7th round rookie Valentine is Barry’s #1 corner
Corey undrafted rookie Ballentine is CB2
Jaire hobbled clown Alexander has had the 3rd most snaps
and Eric hasn’t played football in over a year Stokes is 4
Keyshon, cant play defense, Nixon is the nickle back

Rudy, shouldn’t ever be on the field on defense Ford is his top safety
Jonathan, cant cover at all Owens is #2
With splashes of Darnel, first round bust Savage

All while
Devondre, injured and aging Cambell is at linebacker
Quay, rough and tough but dumb as fuck Walker is coordinating the pass defense
And Isaiah triggers in the run game but can’t cover shit McDuffie is the third



Joe Barely has done a decent job with the fucking shit hole situation he’s been given. I’m ready to move on, but you guys thinking firing him fixes our defense…. You’re not the know it alls you think you are.

[Joemailman]

Nobody is saying that firing Barry fixes everything. But as long as Barry is DC nothing gets fixed. As a DC he's at best a mediocrity. Always has been. Always will be. And I don't think it will just be him. I wouldn't be surprised if most or all of the defensive staff is replaced.

[RashanGary]

I’m down to replace him. It sure seems to me you can do better. But Joe Barry isn’t our biggest problem on defense like everyone seems to think.

[RashanGary]

Everyone has their panties in a bunch like we’re so close to the playoffs and a shot at the Super Bowl with this defense if we just get a coordinator. That couldn’t be further from the truth. It’s so far off, it’s ridiculous.

Relax. Stop worrying about meaningless wins. We’re a couple months away from the parts of the offseason where actual meaningful change can occur.

This is a great year with how so many offensive players have panned out. Gute has to roll up his sleeves and get to revamping that defense this off season and we’re back in the hunt.

But for now, settle the fuck down and stop melting down about Joe Barry. We sound as idiotic as Bears fans blaming Getsy for Fields being a dumb ass.

[Teamcheez1]

You sound like you’re making an argument for keeping Barry.

[run pMc]

I’m down to replace him. It sure seems to me you can do better. But Joe Barry isn’t our biggest problem on defense like everyone seems to think.

I understand your perspective. It's hard to actually say what the biggest problem is, but Barry is definitely in the running for that title.

There are a lot of problems with the defense, injuries/talent in the secondary being one of them for sure. GB doesn't have great talent in the secondary, but there are other teams who are in the same scenario, and they manage to get them coached up to play. I think Greg Williams (the passing game guy on D) has done a decent job, but Barry is calling some very soft zones and coverages which aren't getting it done. Name 3 players drafted in the last 3 years on defense who have developed. Can you name any who made a Year 2 leap?

Do you trust this team to hold a 3 point lead when the other team gets the ball with 55 seconds left on the clock? Why or why not?

Barry has always believed in rushing with 4 and having zone coverage behind it. That's what he will default to.
Barry's defenses have been bad in DET and WAS as well. He's never had an above average defense. Most incompetent DCs will luck into at least one season of that. His fingerprints have been all over a defense that hasn't improved or performed consistently well (or even average) for 3 seasons. That's...grounds for termination in the NFL

I think if they had an above average (or even average) DC they'd be much better with the same roster. You think Mike Zimmer or Robert Saleh wouldn't do better? Remember when Barry got Covid and Jerry Grey subbed in as DC against ARI, and Rasul got the Int and the win? They were playing a rookie and someone signed off a PS at CB.

Talent matters, but so does coaching.

[texaspackerbacker]

Carrington 7th round rookie Valentine is Barry’s #1 corner
Corey undrafted rookie Ballentine is CB2
Jaire hobbled clown Alexander has had the 3rd most snaps
and Eric hasn’t played football in over a year Stokes is 4
Keyshon, cant play defense, Nixon is the nickle back

Rudy, shouldn’t ever be on the field on defense Ford is his top safety
Jonathan, cant cover at all Owens is #2
With splashes of Darnel, first round bust Savage

All while
Devondre, injured and aging Cambell is at linebacker
Quay, rough and tough but dumb as fuck Walker is coordinating the pass defense
And Isaiah triggers in the run game but can’t cover shit McDuffie is the third



Joe Barely has done a decent job with the fucking shit hole situation he’s been given. I’m ready to move on, but you guys thinking firing him fixes our defense…. You’re not the know it alls you think you are.

You're not seriously letting damned Barry off the hook, are you? A LOT of teams' defenses have a lot worse players than these and still play a helluva lot better than the Packers D.

Ford and Owens have been downright decent at Safety including in coverage. It's Johnson who has coverage problems. In every game except the Giants, Nixon has been adequate or better. Jaire did stink, but Stokes IMO wasn't as bad as some are saying. He had fairly good coverage most of the time and did a good job against the run.

You conveniently failed to mention the plethora of #1s and other quality players in the D Line and OLB spots who mostly are playing good but not good enough to overcome the rotten scheme and poor adjustment by Barry.

[ThunderDan]

Everyone has their panties in a bunch like we’re so close to the playoffs and a shot at the Super Bowl with this defense if we just get a coordinator. That couldn’t be further from the truth. It’s so far off, it’s ridiculous.

Relax. Stop worrying about meaningless wins. We’re a couple months away from the parts of the offseason where actual meaningful change can occur.

This is a great year with how so many offensive players have panned out. Gute has to roll up his sleeves and get to revamping that defense this off season and we’re back in the hunt.

But for now, settle the fuck down and stop melting down about Joe Barry. We sound as idiotic as Bears fans blaming Getsy for Fields being a dumb ass.

How about when it is 4th and 1 and you don't cover the A gaps on D? That is completely the call of the D and rests squarely on the DC.

[ThunderDan]

How about when it is 4th and 1 and you don't cover the A gaps on D? That is completely the call of the D and rests squarely on the DC.

Or that play when it was 3rd and like 8 and our safeties were playing 25 yards off the line of scrimmage? Someone posted a screen shot on here in one of the threads.

[ThunderDan]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GBpGCaeXEAAAFd0?format=jpg&name=large

Here it is. Whoever made that defensive call should be fired. The safeties are 27 and 22 yards off the ball on 3rd & 4.

[RashanGary]

So you think Joe Barry called a play where the defenders were supposed to line up 20 yards off? Lafleur said within the general coverage call, players get flexibility in how they align.

You can call the same exact quarters coverage 3 times and the players can align differently each time.

One time Valentine could be 5 yards off because he has confidence Randall Cobb can’t beat him over the top
Next he could be 15 yards off with Tyreek Hill in front of him.
The next time he could be 10 yards off with Mike Evans in front of him on a 3rd and 4. There is still room to break on a ball to the sideline, but even still, a 5 yard first down is better than a 43 yard touchdown.

Their own abilities, The receiver in front of them, the down and distance, the moment in the game, all are considerations when a corner decides where he wants to line up presnap in a quarters coverage.

First job is to not give up a touchdown. Giving up touchdowns is worse than 3 yard runs or 6 yard first downs in most game situations
Next job is not giving up explosives. 3 yard runs are better than 27 yard deep outs.
Next is to attack the shorter stuff when you feel confident you’re not giving up a big play


Things like that are being considered by the player when the align themselves.

And young guys make more mistakes.


Further, there are a lot of plays that our guys can’t execute well. Most of our secondary has glaring weaknesses. It’s not Joe Barry’s fault our guys are either too inexperienced or not capable of playing nfl defense.


There is so much more that goes into it than Joe Barry intentionally or incompetently putting them in position to fail.

[run pMc]

I think they don't trust the safeties, who are basically a step better than guys off the street.

All the same, if the spacing of your players is bad, your defense is not going to work. I thought the idea behind most zone defenses (and pass defense in general) is to shrink the field and make it harder for the QB to make a throw. Barry is doing the opposite here.

The offense wants to stress a defense horizontally and vertically. I don't know why you'd help them out by playing your safeties off by a quarter of the entire field's length. THAT is definitely on the DC.
OK, you can blame Gute for not getting better players, but at this point they should at least be coached up to understand the defense and execute. Playing that far off essentially removes them from the play unless it's an explosive gain...which you are almost ceding by playing 11-vs-9 anyway.
Gute couldn't get better talent in the secondary because there was no cap space, and they had Jaire, Rasul, Stokes, Nixon as the top 4 corners. Everyone knew safety was a concern, with Savage, Ford, Owens and a rookie (and Tarvarius Moore) but I'd expect you can get by with average competence at safety if you aren't playing single high safety.

Sorry for ranting, but the kind of stuff shown in the picture above drives me batty, and I've seen it too often recently with GB. It's tantamount to surrender.

[run pMc]

There is so much more that goes into it than Joe Barry intentionally or incompetently putting them in position to fail.

I agree with this, but I think the coaches have at least as much responsibility as the players do.
At this point in the season, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect even the rookies to know where they are supposed to be lined up, their assignments, and be "capable of playing nfl defense". They've had 15 weeks of regular season games plus preseason and camps to get this down. If they can't pick it up by now -- they've played as much if not more than a full college season -- then you wonder if they ever will. Or if it's being taught coaches poorly. I could understand this from rookies in the first half of the season, but not in Week 15 or 16.

I'd cast doubt on the position coaches as well, not just Barry. There have been plenty of execution errors by the players, but when you watch this defense it looks like a leaky ship, and it's usually not because someone missed a tackle.

[Bretsky]

MATTY FLOWER: We played 3 good quarters of defense and 1 bad one. All you Barry supporters can keep bashing the tank. The fear is real :)))

[Bretsky]

I’m down to replace him. It sure seems to me you can do better. But Joe Barry isn’t our biggest problem on defense like everyone seems to think.


Completely agree that there are a LOT of problems on Defense; some have been bad draft picks; some could be crap attitudes (JAIRE) and some of it is Joe Barry.

The next three important dates are draft days.

[RashanGary]

Thunderdan, you’re a teacher right? I hope every student you have is performing at the absolute elite level compared to their peers. If not, it’s all on you, right?

[RashanGary]

Completely agree that there are a LOT of problems on Defense; some have been bad draft picks; some could be crap attitudes (JAIRE) and some of it is Joe Barry.

The next three important dates are draft days.

Yeah. It’s probably time for a younger, brighter, ambitious guy who relates to the younger crowd. There is a huge disconnect between generations right now. Bigger than I ever remember. The young people on Twitter are just so aggressive, rude, cocky toward older people. It’s crazy. Bring in a 35 year old up and comer and I think you’ll get a better connection.

[Bretsky]

Yeah. It’s probably time for a younger, brighter, ambitious guy who relates to the younger crowd. There is a huge disconnect between generations right now. Bigger than I ever remember. The young people on Twitter are just so aggressive, rude, cocky toward older people. It’s crazy. Bring in a 35 year old up and comer and I think you’ll get a better connection.


JIMMY JIMMY JIMMY

[Joemailman]

Chris Hewitt
PASS GAME COORDINATOR/SECONDARY
College: Cincinnati

Hometown: Englewood, NJ

Experience: 12 years

Biography
CHRIS HEWITT enters his ninth season leading Baltimore's secondary. He joined the Ravens as an assistant special teams coach in 2012, a post he held for two years, before earning a promotion to assistant secondary coach in 2014. Hewitt has led Baltimore's secondary since the 2015 campaign, helping the team consistently earn standout defensive rankings. Prior to his Baltimore arrival, Hewitt spent time coaching at the collegiate level, including one year (2003) as Notre Dame's assistant strength and conditioning coach and an eight-year stint (2004-11) at Rutgers.

With Hewitt at the helm of the secondary (since 2015), Baltimore's defense has ranked at or near the top of the NFL in several categories, including points allowed per game (second – 20.0), yards allowed per game (first – 324.7) and third-down conversion percentage (second – 35.9)...The secondary has also contributed to the NFL's sixth-ranked opponent completion percentage (62.3) and sixth-best opponent passer rating (86.7).
Hewitt has coached several Pro Bowl DBs since 2015, when he started leading Baltimore's group, including Marlon Humphrey (2019-20 & 2022), Marcus Peters (2019), Earl Thomas III (2019) and Eric Weddle (2016-18).
Baltimore boasted a Top 5 defense in multiple categories in 2022, including the NFL's No. 3 unit in points allowed per game (18.5)...The Ravens were also third in defensive red zone TD percentage (46.4) and finished fourth on third down (34.9%)...Baltimore tied (Tampa Bay) for the NFL's ninth-fewest yards allowed per game (324.3), while permitting the second-fewest total TDs (32, tied with Buf. & Cin.) and fewest scores of 20-plus yards (5, tied with Cin.).
In 2020, the Ravens earned their third-straight playoff berth with the help of Hewitt's sixth-ranked pass defense (221.0 ypg)...Baltimore allowed the NFL's second-fewest points per game (18.9), seventh-fewest yards per game (329.8), owned the second-ranked third-down defense (34.0%) and produced a league-high 25 FFs.
In 2019, Baltimore achieved a franchise-best 14-2 record and earned its second-straight AFC North title...The defense allowed the NFL's third-fewest points per game (17.6), ranked fourth in yards per game (300.6), was No. 6 vs. the pass (207.2 ypg) and recorded the NFL's second-best defensive passer rating (77.5).
In 2018, the Ravens were the top-overall defense, allowing an NFL-best 292.9 yards per game...Against the pass, Baltimore ranked fifth, allowing 210.0 yards per game, while its 80.6 defensive passer rating stood second...Baltimore also permitted the league's second-fewest points per game (17.9) and finished third in third-down defense (34.1).
2012-22: (with Baltimore) 2022:Helped guide the NFL's No. 3 unit in points allowed per game (18.5) and defensive red zone TD percentage (46.4)...Baltimore also finished fourth on third down (34.9%) and tied (TB) for the NFL's ninth-fewest yards allowed per game (324.3)...The defense permitted the NFL's second-fewest total TDs (32, tied with Buf. & Cin.) and fewest scores of 20-plus yards (5, tied with Cin.)...CB Marlon Humphrey made his third-career Pro Bowl after finishing as one of two DBs (L'Jarius Sneed) to record at least 3 INTs and 3 sacks...S Kyle Hamilton earned PFWA All-Rookie honors after joining L'Jarius Sneed and Derwin James as one of three DBs to post at least 5 QBHs and 5 PD. 2021:Coached a secondary that contributed to the Ravens' No. 3 third-down defense (34.8%)...Helped guide rookie DB Brandon Stephens, who saw action in all 17 contests (11 starts) and posted the most tackles (74) by a Ravens' rookie defensive back since S Matt Elam in 2013 (76)...Stephens' 74 tackles stand as the third most by a rookie defensive back in Ravens franchise history, trailing only Elam in 2013 and S Ed Reed in 2012 (80). 2020: The Ravens earned their third-straight playoff berth with the help of Hewitt's sixth-ranked pass defense (221.0 ypg)...Baltimore allowed the NFL's second-fewest points per game (18.9), seventh fewest yards per game (329.8) per game, owned the second-ranked third-down defense (34.0%) and produced a league-high 25 FFs...Humphrey made his second-straight Pro Bowl after leading the NFL with a Ravens' single-season record 8 FFs and tallying a team-high 11 PD...CB Marcus Peters tied (two players) to produce the NFL's third-most takeaways (4 INTs & 2 FRs)...S Chuck Clark tallied 96 tackles, 2 FFs, 3 FRs, 1.5 sacks 1 INT and 1 D-TD. 2019: Baltimore achieved a franchise-best 14-2 record and earned its second-straight AFC North title...The defense allowed the NFL's third-fewest points per game (17.6), ranked fourth in yards per game (300.6), was No. 6 vs. the pass (207.2 ypg) and recorded the NFL's second-best defensive passer rating (77.5)...Scored 6 defensive TDs in 2019, including 5 by defensive backs, tied (with '06 and '08) for the second most in franchise history (2004 – 7) and also tied (TB) for the most in the NFL...Three members of the secondary earned Pro Bowl honors: CB Marlon Humphrey (first), CB Marcus Peters (third) and S Earl Thomas III (seventh). 2018:Ravens defense ranked No. 1 (292.9 ypg)...Baltimore, the AFC North division champions, also permitted the league's second-fewest points per game (17.9), just behind Chicago (17.7)...Pass defense ranked fifth, allowing 210.0 yards per game, while the team's 80.6 defensive passer rating was second in the NFL and its 34.1% third-down conversion percentage ranked third...S Eric Weddle was voted to his third-consecutive Pro Bowl. 2017:The Ravens' pass defense finished 10th (213.8 ypg), and Baltimore led the NFL in INTs (22) for the second-straight year...The Ravens ranked No. 1 with a +17 turnover differential...Baltimore also produced the second-most defensive touchdowns (5, tied, Det. & Phi.) and recorded 3 shutouts on the season, the most by a team since 2003 (NE)...S Eric Weddle tallied a team-high 6 INTs en route to earning his second-straight (fifth overall) Pro Bowl selection. 2016:The Ravens' defense ranked seventh overall (322.1 ypg), making Baltimore one of three teams (Den. & Sea.) to finish ranked in the NFL's Top 10 in each season from 2014-16...Baltimore's ninth-ranked pass defense (232.8 ypg) tied (KC & SD) to produce the NFL's most INTs (18)...S Eric Weddle earned Pro Bowl honors, registering a team-high 4 INTs (tied with LB C.J. Mosley) and career-high 13 PD. 2015:Baltimore's eighth-ranked defense (337.4 ypg) allowed a league-best 183.3 passing yards per game in the season's second half and helped permit the NFL's second-fewest total net yards (291.1 ypg) during that span (final eight games). 2014:Even while battling injuries throughout the season (six DBs were placed on Injured Reserve), the Ravens' secondary helped Baltimore's "D" allow the NFL's sixth-fewest points (18.9 ppg) and eighth-fewest yards per game (336.9). 2013:WR/RS Tandon Doss led the NFL in punt return average (15.6)...The Ravens were second in kickoff return average (26.4) and third in punt return average (14.2), posting an NFL-high 12 punt returns of 20-plus yards. 2012: Pro Bowl RS Jacoby Jones led the NFL in KOR average (30.7) and posted a league-best 2 KOR-TDs...Jones tied a league-record with 3 kick return TDs (108- and 105-yard KORs and 63-yard PR) and set a Super Bowl record with 290 combined yards, including an NFL-postseason-record 108-yard KOR-TD.

2004-11: (with Rutgers) 2010-11:Was the Scarlet Knights' RBs coach and mentored RB Jawan Jamison, who joined Ray Rice in becoming just the third freshman in Rutgers history to rush for 200 yards in a game. 2008-09: Rutgers ranked second in the Big East in pass defense in 2008 (191.3 ypg) and 2009 (204.5 ypg). 2005-07:Was director of speed and skill development...Aided by Hewitt's training, Rice set all-time school rushing records with 910 attempts for 4,926 yards, 49 TDs and a 90-yard long gain…Rice became the first player in Rutgers history to rush for 1,000-plus yards in three seasons (2005-07). 2004:Joined Rutgers' staff as a graduate assistant.

2003: (with Notre Dame)Served as the assistant strength and conditioning coach.

NFL PLAYER: (1997-99 with New Orleans)Signed with the Saints as a rookie free agent in 1997 and played in 39 games (four starts)…Played defensive back, serving primarily on special teams…Totaled 29 tackles (22 solo) from scrimmage, 3 sacks, 1 PD, 1 FF and 1 FR…Recorded 7 special teams tackles (6 solo) for the Saints' kickoff coverage team that ranked fifth in the NFL in average opponent starting field position (23.8-yard line) in 1998…Was named the NFC Special Teams Player of the Week in Week 12 vs. Seattle (11/16/97) after blocking a punt that led to a crucial field goal.

COLLEGE:Was a four-year letterman at Cincinnati and a two-time All-Conference USA selection (1995-96) as a DB…Played for John Harbaugh, who was the Bearcats' special teams, TEs, OLBs and RBs coach (1989-94) and assistant head coach (1995-96), and longtime Ravens special teams coordinator Jerry Rosburg, who was the team's LBs, special teams and secondary coach (1992-95)…Totaled 80 tackles and 2 INTs in his senior season…Earned a bachelor's degree in criminal justice.

PERSONAL:Participated in the NFL's Minority Coaching Fellowship Program, completing training camp stints with the Ravens (2006 & 2008), Eagles (2005) and Browns (2001)…Played football, basketball and track at Dwight Morrow (Englewood, NJ) HS…Was born in Kingston, Jamaica before moving to New Jersey when he was 5 years old…Chris and his wife, Tanisha, have three daughters (Azia, Briana and Christina) and a son (Christopher, Jr.).

[Fritz]

I see Mike Zimmerman is coming out of the woodwork saying he would like to be a defensive coordinator next season.

I imagine a few Packer fans got a boner after reading that article about him.

[Fritz]

I see Mike Zimmerman is coming out of the woodwork saying he would like to be a defensive coordinator next season.

I imagine a few Packer fans got a boner after reading that article about him.

Who the hell is Mike Zimmerman?

Mike Zimmer. Effin’ autocorrect.

[bobblehead]

I’m down to replace him. It sure seems to me you can do better. But Joe Barry isn’t our biggest problem on defense like everyone seems to think.

Disagree. He is indeed the biggest problem. Not the only problem, but certainly the biggest.

[ThunderDan]

Thunderdan, you’re a teacher right? I hope every student you have is performing at the absolute elite level compared to their peers. If not, it’s all on you, right?

Wow, that is super passive aggressive.

I am glad to see you are paying attention on this forum. I am a CPA.

[ThunderDan]

So you think Joe Barry called a play where the defenders were supposed to line up 20 yards off? Lafleur said within the general coverage call, players get flexibility in how they align.

No, I don’t think he called a defense that does that. But his players are not lined up anywhere near to correct.

I had a Pop Warner coach who would yell at us in 5th grade if you lined up so far from where you are supposed to be. Are you seriously telling me the coaches at the NFL level just let their guys line up wherever they want? There are schemes and adjustments in every coverage and play but being 27 yards off the line in scrimmage on 3rd and 4 and giving an NFL QB a 15 yard hole in your defense for an easy 1st down isn’t one of them.

Maybe this is why teams have been converting 3rd and any amount against us lately. We are willing to effectly play 11-9 football.

[ThunderDan]

I see Mike Zimmerman is coming out of the woodwork saying he would like to be a defensive coordinator next season.

I imagine a few Packer fans got a boner after reading that article about him.

I saw that article yesterday also. I would be happy to have Zimmer as our DC.

[Fritz]

I saw that article yesterday also. I would be happy to have Zimmer as our DC.

I admit to feeling a strange stirring in my loins when I read that.

But given RashanGary’s rant about the differences in generations - the disrespect, the new norms - and the consequent need for a coordinator who can relate, I think his suggested 35-year-old is not nearly young enough. Having been an English prof, I have learned that once you’re out of tenth grade, you’ve already started to lose your cool edge. Therefore, this is what the Packers need in a new DC:

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fm.media-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FM%2FMV5BZGRiYzliMTQtOWQyMS00 Y2Q3LWI5YjEtZWY4NTZiNjllOTUyXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMzE4NT c2MjU%40._V1_.jpg&tbnid=tjhEWaXxLU573M&vet=12ahUKEwjAnsKynrKDAxVvpIkEHaVPCg4QMygDegUIARC2 Ag..i&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.imdb.com%2Ftitle%2Ftt4 310022%2F&docid=hgOq3aM5x7pJXM&w=2000&h=3000&q=boy%20genius&ved=2ahUKEwjAnsKynrKDAxVvpIkEHaVPCg4QMygDegUIARC2A g

[Fritz]

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fm.media-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FM%2FMV5BZGRiYzliMTQtOWQyMS00 Y2Q3LWI5YjEtZWY4NTZiNjllOTUyXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMzE4NT c2MjU%40._V1_.jpg&tbnid=tjhEWaXxLU573M&vet=12ahUKEwjAnsKynrKDAxVvpIkEHaVPCg4QMygDegUIARC2 Ag..i&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.imdb.com%2Ftitle%2Ftt4 310022%2F&docid=hgOq3aM5x7pJXM&w=2000&h=3000&q=boy%20genius&ved=2ahUKEwjAnsKynrKDAxVvpIkEHaVPCg4QMygDegUIARC2A g

Ah, hell’. It was supposed to be a picture of a 12 year old boy genius.

[RashanGary]

https://www.newyorkjets.com/team/coaches-roster/marquand-manuel

Maybe we could poach Marquand Manuel from Robert Saleh’s staff


Prior to joining the Jets, Manuel served as the defensive backs coach with Philadelphia (2020), before four seasons in Atlanta, first as the secondary coach/senior defensive assistant (2015-16), Manuel was later promoted to defensive coordinator (2017-18). In his first season as coordinator (2017), the defense ranked in the top 10 in scoring defense (eighth), total defense (ninth), rushing defense (ninth), and red zone defense (fifth). Additionally, a pair of second year players, linebacker Deion Jones and safety Keanu Neal, each were selected for their first Pro Bowl.

[bobblehead]

Wait a minute Fritz....I thought you were a CPA.

[RashanGary]

Chris Hewitt, passing game coordinator Baltimore
Marquand Manuel, secondary coach, Jets
And the one I think could be the guy…. Bobby Babbich, Buffalo, linebackers.

[run pMc]

There have definitely been games where the game plan and calls were good but execution was poor. That's a problem.
Poor tackling is a problem. Communication issues are a problem. Sometimes the other team just makes a great play.

Not getting guys lined up, not making in game adjustments, inability to stop drives with a punt or a turnover, staying in nickel in obvious short-yardage/goal line situations, lack of player development ... those are coaching issues.
Big picture, Barry is a big problem.

Hey remembet Barry's first game as DC, when Jameis Winston threw for 5TDs (and 0 Int) on 14 completions in a rout? Remember his 2nd game where MLF had to tell him at halftiime to blitz DET because GB was losing?
Remember his 3rd game where he gave up 14 points in the 4Q (including a go-ahead TD to Juscyck with 37 seconds left) only to get bailed out by Rodgers, Adams and Crosby?

I could go on, beginning with his 1st season on thru this season.

I don't think firing Barry solves all their problems, and I don't think a new DC is the missing piece to a Super Bowl... but a good hire at DC is critical to them winning more games.

[run pMc]

LOL at tweets re: Packers History
https://twitter.com/HistoricPackers/status/1740457915021230123


Today in 2008: Packers cap year with 31-21 win over Lions, sending Detroit to the first 0-16 season in NFL history.

- Deshawn Wynn: 106 rush yds, 1 TD
- Ryan Grant: 106 rush yds
- Donald Driver: 111 rec yds, 1 TD
- Greg Jennings: 101 rec yds

Guess who the DC was for DET?

He's been making history (for the wrong reasons) for years.

[QBME]

LOL at tweets re: Packers History
https://twitter.com/HistoricPackers/status/1740457915021230123



Guess who the DC was for DET?

He's been making history (for the wrong reasons) for years.

Did not look it up.
Are you shittin’ me?

[Fritz]

I have zero faith a Joe Barely defense can hold ANY opponent to fewer than 34.

The ship is fucking sinking.

[texaspackerbacker]

Nobody is more anti-Joe Barry than I am, but that's a little hyperbolic. We won a helluva lot of games and held a helluva lot of opponents under 34 during the Barry years as DC. And the ship is NOT sinking. It's highly probable we make the playoffs, and remote but not impossible that we go far into the playoffs.

[Fritz]

Nobody is more anti-Joe Barry than I am, but that's a little hyperbolic. We won a helluva lot of games and held a helluva lot of opponents under 34 during the Barry years as DC. And the ship is NOT sinking. It's highly probable we make the playoffs, and remote but not impossible that we go far into the playoffs.

I can see how it looks like hyperbole, but I think all the incidents with that defense have reached critical mass.

If you don’t believe me, look up “shitshow” in Webster’s. A picture of a Joe Barry defense is what you will find.

[call_me_ishmael]

Chris Hewitt, passing game coordinator Baltimore
Marquand Manuel, secondary coach, Jets
And the one I think could be the guy…. Bobby Babbich, Buffalo, linebackers.

Jimmy Jimmy Jimmy excites me way more than those no namers. We know they’d at least play an agressive AF scheme and the players would love
It.

[MadScientist]

I can see how it looks like hyperbole, but I think all the incidents with that defense have reached critical mass.

If you don’t believe me, look up “shitshow” in Webster’s. A picture of a Joe Barry defense is what you will find.

Here's Barry's body of work (more like corpse of work) as a DC:
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/BarrJo0.htm

Every year Barry's defense was in the bottom 10 in rushing yards per attempt. Only 2022 was he not in the bottom 10 in passing yards per attempt. There may be worse shit-shows in the NFL coaching world, but Barry is deserving to be shit-canned.

[ThunderDan]

Here's Barry's body of work (more like corpse of work) as a DC:
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/BarrJo0.htm

Every year Barry's defense was in the bottom 10 in rushing yards per attempt. Only 2022 was he not in the bottom 10 in passing yards per attempt. There may be worse shit-shows in the NFL coaching world, but Barry is deserving to be shit-canned.

The more I read stuff like this, the more I think MiLF is the wrong hire.

I can maybe understand giving the guy a shot. But after last year and his previous stints, how can you even imagine he could turn it around?

[Fritz]

I'd say his next DC hire is key. I mean, the first key will be firing Joe Barely as soon as the season's over, but I'm thinking that's a given. But yes, The Flower has to get this one right. He inherited Pettine, so not on him. But Barely was his guy, and that has flopped. He better get the next one right or he may also be looking for a job in a couple years.

[CaptainKickass]

I'd say his next DC hire is key. I mean, the first key will be firing Joe Barely as soon as the season's over, but I'm thinking that's a given. But yes, The Flower has to get this one right. He inherited Pettine, so not on him. But Barely was his guy, and that has flopped. He better get the next one right or he may also be looking for a job in a couple years.


This ain't directed at you Fritz but I just felt the thread needed a reminder that Joe Barely will not be getting "fired" when the season ends.

His contract simply expires at season's end and the paychecks stop rolling in. No firing involved.


Well, just a second there, professor. We, uh, we fixed the *glitch*. So he won't be receiving a paycheck anymore, so it'll just work itself out naturally.

This has been a public service repost from Sergeant Semantics vicariously through Captain Kickass

You may now resume your normal bickering, arguing, name calling, one-upping, insulting & drunken posting.

[Bretsky]

I'd say his next DC hire is key. I mean, the first key will be firing Joe Barely as soon as the season's over, but I'm thinking that's a given. But yes, The Flower has to get this one right. He inherited Pettine, so not on him. But Barely was his guy, and that has flopped. He better get the next one right or he may also be looking for a job in a couple years.


I would assume nothing. Did you listen to Flower chat the other day. He said we played 3 good quarters of defense and one bad one. Went on to say the Offfense really needs to get first downs when the defense is gassed...etc....

Flower is looking for excuses to keep Barry. Playoffs, a half competitive game where our D does not melt down.

Barry Ball in 2024

[Bretsky]

This ain't directed at you Fritz but I just felt the thread needed a reminder that Joe Barely will not be getting "fired" when the season ends.

His contract simply expires at season's end and the paychecks stop rolling in. No firing involved.



This has been a public service repost from Sergeant Semantics vicariously through Captain Kickass

You may now resume your normal bickering, arguing, name calling, one-upping, insulting & drunken posting.



Let's call a spade a spade.

Not extending JB is the same as firing him.

[RashanGary]

Gary is top 20 in pressures
Clark is top 40
Preston is top 60

That’s our big 3. That’s the strongest part of our defense. And the strongest part is average.


Next strongest group is ILB. Quay is tough as nails and dumb as rocks. Campbell is aging and average. That’s an average group. So far the strongest parts of our defense, if taken alone, would make us a bottom 16 type of defense without considering our weaknesses.

And here is where you start looking at the problem.
Valentine is our best secondary player. 7th round draft pick. Average.
Ballentine, UDFA is garbage
Ford is a st player. Garbage.
Nixon is a ST player. Garbage.
Owens is a grocery stocker. Garbage.

We have, quite literally, the worst secondary in the NFL.


So based on talent alone, we have a bottom 10 and probably bottom 5 defense.


You go to any job and some guys come in and catch on lightning quick and are the best in the group. Others never figure it out and are always weak links. 90% of execution is the talent of the team. Coaching is a tiny part of the equation. See hoodie with and without Brady and Capers witn Collins and prime Woodson vs without. The examples are endless proving talent is by far the most important part of any aspect of football.


Fans have bamboozled themselves into thinking we have talent on defense because of 1st round picks. Cooper Kupp I’m the 5th round can be infinitely better than Corey Davis in the top 10.

The whole, we have a lot of first round picks on defense therefor we have a lot of talent and coaches are letting us down narrative is misguided and bordering on idiotic.



Let go of your stubborn belief that our first round talent is any good and you can start to see that Barry is coaching bottom 10, if not bottom 5 talent and he’s probably done about an average job.


And let’s say the players have soured on Barry because he’s not putting them over the top. Let’s say he’s “lost the lockerroom.” Frankly, 90% of that is them being trash football players and blaming someone else for their inadequacy.


Barry is not the problem. We need more talent in the front 4 (which can come from LVN and Brooks taking big jumps) and we need a complete secondary overhaul. Valentine improving and jaire healthy would be a start, but we need two safeties desperately and another corner minimum.

You guys are barking up the wrong tree. You look inbred mutts trying to catch a squirrel but spending most of your time chasing your tail. Barry being the scape goat ain’t it boys. It ain’t it.

[RashanGary]

Frankly I hope they keep the guy, add some talent and get some big jumps from guys and Barry comes out and shows you all what the fuck is what. Fans need a little humility.

[King Friday]

Lunatic Rat is a good qualifier for RG.

[bobblehead]

Frankly I hope they keep the guy, add some talent and get some big jumps from guys and Barry comes out and shows you all what the fuck is what. Fans need a little humility.

I love to take the contrarian view as much as anyone, but Barry has a career littered with failure. Some of your points are valid, and in a vacuum hold water, but we have seen the same issues for 3 years. Our poor DBs aren't the reason we have given up 4? 200 yard rushing games this season. Our bad DBs aren't the reason Barry has NEVER had a D outside the bottom 1/3.

I'll grant you Barry probably knows more about coaching a D than I ever did, but that doesn't make him qualified or good at his job.

[QBME]

Let's call a spade a spade.

Not extending JB is the same as firing him.

Excellent point.
Got me to wondering.

And so,
(I hope this works)

Burying Joe Barry
A One Act Play

The Actors:
Mark Murphy (MM)
Brian Gutenkiest (BG)
Matt LeFleur (MLF)
Joe Barry (JB)
The Secretary (TS) as voiced by Jennifer Anniston

Scene 1
MM’s office.
MM and BG are at the conference table. A knock on the door.
MM: What?
MLF: It’s me. The flower.
BG: (grunts)
MM: C’mon in, have a seat, set a spell.
MLF shuffles in, not making eye contact, settles into a chair at the conference table.
A brief uncomfortable silence.
BG: (grunts)
MM: What’s up?
MLF: We, uh, I have a problem.
BG: (grunts)
MM: Yup, we all know it…what are you going to do about it?
BG: (grunts)
MLF: He’s like my best bud in the whole world, and if I bring him in to fire him, I’ll start crying and then he’ll start crying and then I’ll collapse and then we’ll have another season of shitty defense.
BG: (grunts)
MM: What do you suggest?
MLF: You’re my boss, tell me I can’t rehire him. Give me cover.
MM: When you were hired our agreement was explicit. You have total control over your coaching hires and fires.
MLF: (Thinking to himself – fucking lawyer)
BG: (grunts)
MLF gets a redeeming sparkle in his eye.
MLF: HEY Marky Mark, you’ve already announced your retirement, so how’s about you taking one for the team? We’ll just say you stand behind me and my coaching decisions, and yet at the same time you prohibit Gooter from offering a contract to my best bud? It could work!!
MM: Hmmm, seems plausible…what do you think Gooter?
BG: (grunts)

Scene 2
8 days later. MLF Office. MLF behind his desk drumming his fingers on the desktop. A knock on the door.
MLF: Whoosit?
JB: It’s me bud
MLF: Yup. C’mon in
JB in full Packer garb, including neck whistle enters. Both embrace in a bro hug, settle into their respective seats.
JB: What’s up?
MLF: First, thanks for getting here on a moment’s notice, I truly appreciate it.
JB: No problem, was just reviewing tape on how to set the secondary on third and four.
MLF: Well actually we have a problem. I just now got out of a very contentious two-hour meeting with Murphy and Gutenkiest. I fought very hard but those know-nothings seem to think you may be standing in the way of progress.
JB: Assholes.
MLF: Agree. In any case I stood up. Bottom line – you’ll be our DC next year, albeit without a contract.
JB: What?
MLF: Yes, we can do it buddy!
JB: WTF? So, for no pay?
MLF: Afraid so. For love of the game!
JB: Pro Bono?
MLF: I dunno – Pro Bono, Sonny Bono, that fucker Murphy started to throw around Italian words.
JB: Would I still get medical coverage, including dental, vision and hearing?
MLF: (starting to sniffle) I don’t know, have to check with HR.

A sullen silence ensues. MLF’s desk phone buzzes. MLF punches a button for the intercom.

MLF: Yes?
TS: Coach LaFleur? Mr. Leonhard is here for his interview.
Sobbing
Crying
Sun breaks through the clouds in MLF’s office

The End

[ZachMN]

Gary is top 20 in pressures
Clark is top 40
Preston is top 60

That’s our big 3. That’s the strongest part of our defense. And the strongest part is average.


Next strongest group is ILB. Quay is tough as nails and dumb as rocks. Campbell is aging and average. That’s an average group. So far the strongest parts of our defense, if taken alone, would make us a bottom 16 type of defense without considering our weaknesses.

And here is where you start looking at the problem.
Valentine is our best secondary player. 7th round draft pick. Average.
Ballentine, UDFA is garbage
Ford is a st player. Garbage.
Nixon is a ST player. Garbage.
Owens is a grocery stocker. Garbage.

We have, quite literally, the worst secondary in the NFL.


So based on talent alone, we have a bottom 10 and probably bottom 5 defense.


You go to any job and some guys come in and catch on lightning quick and are the best in the group. Others never figure it out and are always weak links. 90% of execution is the talent of the team. Coaching is a tiny part of the equation. See hoodie with and without Brady and Capers witn Collins and prime Woodson vs without. The examples are endless proving talent is by far the most important part of any aspect of football.


Fans have bamboozled themselves into thinking we have talent on defense because of 1st round picks. Cooper Kupp I’m the 5th round can be infinitely better than Corey Davis in the top 10.

The whole, we have a lot of first round picks on defense therefor we have a lot of talent and coaches are letting us down narrative is misguided and bordering on idiotic.



Let go of your stubborn belief that our first round talent is any good and you can start to see that Barry is coaching bottom 10, if not bottom 5 talent and he’s probably done about an average job.


And let’s say the players have soured on Barry because he’s not putting them over the top. Let’s say he’s “lost the lockerroom.” Frankly, 90% of that is them being trash football players and blaming someone else for their inadequacy.


Barry is not the problem. We need more talent in the front 4 (which can come from LVN and Brooks taking big jumps) and we need a complete secondary overhaul. Valentine improving and jaire healthy would be a start, but we need two safeties desperately and another corner minimum.

You guys are barking up the wrong tree. You look inbred mutts trying to catch a squirrel but spending most of your time chasing your tail. Barry being the scape goat ain’t it boys. It ain’t it.

See B Flow here in Minny. Coordinator and attitude are key ingredients IMHO. Also see Herb Brookls. Gotta get em in the mind to quote the Hanson bros. ;)

[run pMc]

Lunatic Rat is a good qualifier for RG.

I think this is where he really lost me:

So based on talent alone, we have a bottom 10 and probably bottom 5 defense.

Remember when we all complained about Joe Barry turning 8 R1 draft picks on defense into a garbage unit? You aren't a R1 pick if you don't have talent.

This defense has schematic issues, play call issues, execution issues, communication issues, player development issues, you name it. Since the Pettine era I've felt like it's less than the sum of its parts and Barry didn't fix that. He might have made it worse.
I am starting to think there's a cultural problem on defense.

Except for the secondary, I don't think talent is an issue for this defense. Even there they have Jaire, Stokes and Savage, all R1 picks... and have missed a lot of games. Going all in tied their hands re: cap space so they couldn't bring in a decent safety to keep people lined up, and Barry either doesn't trust his secondary or likes to have them play 20 yards off. You decide.

Run defense is a problem, has been for a while. Lining up your EDGE rushers at the 9 and 2 DL more or less head up on the G is just begging to give up 7 yards a pop on the ground. Yeah it's faster to fly than run to the SB, but stopping the run puts teams behind schedule and forces them to throw...which makes them one-dimensional. That's what you want because you can pressure or disguise coverage and force turnovers... I think Barry knows that but doesn't care.

[bobblehead]

Carolina shut out today. I THINK I read that they haven't scored a TD in 6 of the last 7 weeks now. This seemed like the right thread for this.

[George Cumby]

Carolina shut out today. I THINK I read that they haven't scored a TD in 6 of the last 7 weeks now. This seemed like the right thread for this.

If this doesn't say it all, I don't know what does.

[Bretsky]

a win today solidifies the Barrinator

[red]

Carolina shut out today. I THINK I read that they haven't scored a TD in 6 of the last 7 weeks now. This seemed like the right thread for this.

thats just unfucking real

[run pMc]

I think I heard one of the podcasters say that this year the GB defense has allowed 5 QBs to have either career games, or best-of-season games. That's....too many. Many you allow one and you grant it as a mulligan, but FIVE? That combined with allowing so many 200+ yard rushing performances just tells me this is an underperforming defense. When you look at that over a season, you have to put a large part of the blame for that on coaching. It's not like the defense is lacking talent. They keep drafting defense in R1.

[Joemailman]

Is Joe Barry Lazarus?

[Bretsky]

Is Joe Barry Lazarus?



Like last year, the body of work is bad but BarryBall might have been saved again.

Don't be surprised if he's around another year, OR more.

[Joemailman]

Like last year, the body of work is bad but BarryBall might have been saved again.

Don't be surprised if he's around another year, OR more.

I don't think shutting down Nick Mullens and Justin Fields will be enough to save him. Now if he shuts down the Cowboys offense...

[texaspackerbacker]

A couple of good games by Barry's D, but putting it in perspective, it was the Bears, and it was the worst team in the league by record last week.

I'm thinking now, Barry is back next season whether we in here like it or not (for the record, I still don't).

[Sparkey]

JB mixed man in with his zone. I'll says this, when the Dline gets pressure, every DC looks better!

[run pMc]

Well, there's a history he has to outrun:
https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2024/1/4/24019340/joe-barry-packers-lions-washington-defensive-coordinator-career-days

Personally, I don't think the last few games should be enough. The defense played well, but beating bad QBs is not a high bar.
I expect CeeDee Lamb and the rest of the DAL receivers to have a good day against this defense, and we'll all be reminded the frustration this defense has provoked.

[SudsMcBucky]

A couple of good games by Barry's D, but putting it in perspective, it was the Bears, and it was the worst team in the league by record last week.

I'm thinking now, Barry is back next season whether we in here like it or not (for the record, I still don't).

I disagree. I'm thinking Barry is gone unless there is some sort of historical playoff run to the SB.

[call_me_ishmael]

Wink resigned.
https://www.nfl.com/news/wink-martindale-resigns-as-giants-defensive-coordinator-after-two-seasons

[bobblehead]

JB mixed man in with his zone. I'll says this, when the Dline gets pressure, every DC looks better!

I noticed this. Played a little more to Alexander's strength. I also saw Quay covering Moore a couple times so....

The only way Barry is back is if we AT LEAST hold the cowboys under 20 and win, and then hold whoever we play next to around 20. One good game won't be enough. He needs to check 2 playoff teams in a row to save his job. Even then I would fire him in an instant if Jim L. is willing to take the job.

[texaspackerbacker]

I disagree. I'm thinking Barry is gone unless there is some sort of historical playoff run to the SB.

My opinion about him staying is not strong enough to disagree with you. Maybe LaFleur lets him leave without too much shame. And don't rule out that "historical playoff run to the SB".

[Joemailman]

Giants DC Wink Martindale resigns. He runs a blitz-heavy D that sometimes gives up big chunks of yardage. In 2023 Giants ranked 26th in points allowed and 27th in yards allowed. However, hey were 1st in forcing turnovers. Their run defense was among the worst in the NFL.

[Sparkey]

I noticed this. Played a little more to Alexander's strength. I also saw Quay covering Moore a couple times so....

The only way Barry is back is if we AT LEAST hold the cowboys under 20 and win, and then hold whoever we play next to around 20. One good game won't be enough. He needs to check 2 playoff teams in a row to save his job. Even then I would fire him in an instant if Jim L. is willing to take the job.

Ha, no firing needed as his contract expires.

[Joemailman]

Jim Leonhard going to Colorado.

[call_me_ishmael]

Man, IDK if that is a good move or not. How long is Deion gonna stay there? MAybe he can be the next guy? Either way - he'll have no shortage of players to work with.

[bobblehead]

Ha, no firing needed as his contract expires.

potato potato.....that doesn't have the same effect in pixels.

[NewsBruin]

"Wink" Martindale is now available for the taking.

[RashanGary]

Joe Barry’s defense finished in the top 10 in points allowed.

He had a decent front. Clark, Gary, Preston and company are a squad you can play with, but they’re nothing special.
The linebackers are decent again, but nothing special.
The secondary, talent wise, once the injuries hit (and they hit all year) is probably the worst in the league talent wise.

Just off of talent alone, we should be bottom 15 or bottom 10.

Joe Barry is not the problem. It’s a lazy take.

[RashanGary]

I hope Jaire gets healthy, Valentine takes a big jump, Brooks and Wyatt get even better, Quay gets better, we find a legit safety or two…

And Joe Barry comes back and coaches a top 5 defense because he has the talent to actually make that happen.

And you all shut the fuck up, blaming the coach for everything the players do wrong.

[RashanGary]

I understand talking shit here. His family doesn’t see it. But People were fucking with his daughter on social media. It’s just ridiculous how people can tear a guy up in public and not feel a shred of guilt. Honestly, outside of Tex, there is no one here who hates journalists as a general rule more than me. And they’ve been more respectful than the fan base. It’s kind of gross, to be honest.

[Joemailman]

Joe Barry’s defense finished in the top 10 in points allowed.

He had a decent front. Clark, Gary, Preston and company are a squad you can play with, but they’re nothing special.
The linebackers are decent again, but nothing special.
The secondary, talent wise, once the injuries hit (and they hit all year) is probably the worst in the league talent wise.

Just off of talent alone, we should be bottom 15 or bottom 10.

Joe Barry is not the problem. It’s a lazy take.

Joe Barry is capable of putting together a good game plan. But it seems like unless he is pressured to change, he comes up with passive, bend, bend, bend, bend, but don't break defense game plans. The result is long drives that keep the Packers offense off the field, and few forced turnovers.

[RashanGary]

Joe Barry is capable of putting together a good game plan. But it seems like unless he is pressured to change, he comes up with passive, bend, bend, bend, bend, but don't break defense game plans. The result is long drives that keep the Packers offense off the field, and few forced turnovers.

He’s making the best of the secondary he has. If he did things differently, we’d be torched in other ways and it would be worse. Points allowed is better than most other stats at defining a defense.

Valentines development and a healthy Jaire along with Savages speed in center field should open up some more aggressive options that won’t get is killed. There’s a chance we see our best defense down the stretch here.

[ThunderDan]

He’s making the best of the secondary he has. If he did things differently, we’d be torched in other ways and it would be worse. Points allowed is better than most other stats at defining a defense.

Valentines development and a healthy Jaire along with Savages speed in center field should open up some more aggressive options that won’t get is killed. There’s a chance we see our best defense down the stretch here.

You have absolutely no evidence to support that position. You are just make shit up out of thin air.

Where it is 4 and 1 and you don’t line up anyone’s in the A gaps it is on the DC. When it is 3rd and 7 and your safeties play 25+ yards off the line of scrimmage it is on the DC.

We have made a couple of clown show QBs and Os look like superstars. Hell, just a little over a week ago CAR scored 3 TDs against us. They hadn’t scored a TD in 9 quarters and didn’t score a TD in their season finale. They couldn’t punch it in for the last quarter of the season except against us.

[BrokenArrow]

Hell, just a little over a week ago CAR scored 3 TDs against us.

Two and a half weeks ago, actually.

[ThunderDan]

Two and a half weeks ago, actually.

Correct, I forgot about the MINN game.

As an additional footnote, Carolina scored 83 points the last 8 weeks of the season. Removing the Packers game that is 53 points over 7 weeks or 7.6 points per game.
Carolina scored 7 TDs in the last 8 weeks of the season. Removing the Packer game that is .57 TDs per game.

[ThunderDan]

Last item and I will leave it alone regarding Carolina.

Carolina scored 45 points the last 5 weeks of the season. Removing the Packer game Carolina averaged 3.8 points per game.
We were the only team that Carolina scored a TD against in the last quarter of the season.

[BrokenArrow]

Correct, I forgot about the MINN game.

As an additional footnote, Carolina scored 83 points the last 8 weeks of the season. Removing the Packers game that is 53 points over 7 weeks or 7.6 points per game.
Carolina scored 7 TDs in the last 8 weeks of the season. Removing the Packer game that is .57 TDs per game.

Yeah, that was a bizarre thing. Big improvement the last two weeks though. We do need our offense to control the clock though to make up for mediocre defense. But this game is very winnable.

[RashanGary]

There’s more to the season than the Panthers game.

[ThunderDan]

There’s more to the season than the Panthers game.

How about the Giants and Bucs games?

[ThunderDan]

Detroit and Minn game 1s against both teams?

[Joemailman]

Barry is a mediocrity. As a DC, he always has been. If he's retained, Packers will continue to be not very good on defense, but not the worst.

[Upnorth]

Anyone else unrealistically hope we get mike Vrabel?

Maybe he really misses lafluer