Packers vs Lions Discussion Thread

[Joemailman]

Packers lead all-time series 105-75-7. 103-75-7 in regular season, 2-0 in playoffs.

Last meeting: January 8, 2023. Aaron Rodgers' last game as a Packer. Lions defeated the Packers 20-16 to eliminate Packers from the playoffs. Jamaal Williams ran for 72 yards and 2 TD's. Christian Watson had 5 catches for 104 yards.

Lions come in 2-1. Jared Goff has thrown for 819 yards with 5 Td's and 2 INT's. He has been sacked just 3 times. David Montgomery was their leading rusher with 141 yards and 2 TD's through 2 games, but missed Week 3 with a thigh injury. Jahmyr Gibbs has rushed for 139 yards. Amon-Ra St. Brown is the leading receiver with 21 catches for 275 yards and 1 TD. Rookie TE Sam LaPorta has 18 catches for 186 yards and 1 TD.

Lions defense has given up 676 passing yards with 4 TD's and 1 INT. They have allowed just 216 rushing yards for a 3.2 YPC. They have sacked the QB 8 times.

Lions have won the last 3 meetings between the 2 teams.

Opening line has Lions favored by 1.5.

Moneyline: Packers +100 Lions -120

Over/under 45

[Fosco33]

They held Falcons in check in defense/rushing.

Tons of injuries on a short week.

Lions have owned us for last 5 years or so… gonna be a fun/close game.

https://www.mlive.com/lions/2023/09/3-things-we-learned-lions-have-one-big-concern-heading-into-showdown-with-packers.html?outputType=amp

[King Friday]

The Packers will need some of their horses back if they plan to win this one.

[Fritz]

Packers passed on drafting safety Brian Branch, who is playing well. I wasn't a big fan - I don't think he's speedy? - but he's playing well.

So is their rookie TE. Not sure if they drafted him after Muskrat Lukie or before.

Lions' pass rush is ferocious. Better hope Bakh is back and Tom's injury is not severe.

When Detroit's o-line is healthy, it's very, very good. But they are banged up.

[Joemailman]

Bill Huber
@BillHuberNFL

Had #Packers practiced:
Gary limited, Jones limited.
Alexander, Bakhtiari, Campbell, Tom, Jenkins, Watson would have been DNP.

On Tom: "I think anytime a guy isn't able to finish, it's a concern. He's doing better today."

[Teamcheez1]

If Watson can’t play Thursday, then he should have been put on IR at the beginning of the season.

[run pMc]

Not feeling optimistic about this one. Injuries, plus GB won't be able to play as sloppy vs DET as they did vs. NO. They have 27 penalties in 3 weeks...that's bad.
Haven't looked at who is hurt for DET, but GB's injuries have been a problem.

[Joemailman]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F65lXGPW0AAdGJR?format=png&name=900x900

[RashanGary]

Good to see so many OL on the Lions report. Hopefully those are all starters.

[texaspackerbacker]

The Lions are still the Lions - overrated by many. Goff is still the Goff of past seasons.

If we have a tough time at all, it will be Joe Barry's D trying to stop the run, and I'm fairly sure Love and our passing game will overcome whatever the D give up.

I think LaFleur rolled the dice and calculated that the Packers could beat New Orleans without several of those borderline injury cases. I fully expect Aaron Jones to be back and running wild in this game, with a definite maybe on Watson. Jaire, I don't know. Not much has been said about what kind of a back problem he has. Either way, Valentine looked damn good against better WRs than Detroit has - assuming the bicep doesn't keep him out, which I doubt.

It kinda appears that the Lions have been hit with injuries too, maybe even worse than the Packers.

[Fosco33]

The Lions have a record of 10-10 versus the Packers since 2013.

Better than the Vikings 8-10-2
And Bears 3-18

We always overlook the seemingly hapless Lions. In reality they’re our biggest rival of the last decade.

[SudsMcBucky]

The Lions have a record of 10-10 versus the Packers since 2013.

Better than the Vikings 8-10-2
And Bears 3-18

We always overlook the seemingly hapless Lions. In reality they’re our biggest rival of the last decade.

They may have had the most success against us, but I wouldn't make that the determining factor of who's been our biggest rival. The Vikings and Bears have both presented much more of an overall roadblock to winning the North over the last 30 years.

[Fritz]

Not last year. Not the last game of the season last year.

Both teams have been hit hard by injury. For the Loins, it's mostly the offensive line - look how many of those guys are on the injury report. And when healthy, they have a good, very good, offensive line. I don't think the Packer D could hold up to that line, if it were healthy. And the Packers drafted the wrong St. Brown - little brother Amon Ra has been their go-to wide receiver. He's really good.

Look for Jamyr Ghibbs - or however you spell that RB's name - to have Bijan Robinson-versus-the-Packers type of numbers in this game. Similar guys, I think.

I'm going to guess The Flower is going to sit a bunch of guys again, so they get an extra ten days, then come back with a fuller deck of cards. Jones might play, and possible Bakh, but I'm guessing a lot of the other guys will be missing.

This is gonna be a tough one. Our defense - they drag guys down, they push them out of bounds - their defense? They hit. Hard.

[bobblehead]

Not feeling optimistic about this one. Injuries, plus GB won't be able to play as sloppy vs DET as they did vs. NO. They have 27 penalties in 3 weeks...that's bad.
Haven't looked at who is hurt for DET, but GB's injuries have been a problem.

They are playing like a very young team with talent. Penalties. Bonehead plays. Blowing a game late, but winning one late. At 2-1 the talent is clearly there, but we haven't looked great and our 3 opponents weren't contenders. We likely drop this one, but having Detroit travel on a short week helps the cause.

[bobblehead]

The Lions are still the Lions - overrated by many. Goff is still the Goff of past seasons.

If we have a tough time at all, it will be Joe Barry's D trying to stop the run, and I'm fairly sure Love and our passing game will overcome whatever the D give up.

I think LaFleur rolled the dice and calculated that the Packers could beat New Orleans without several of those borderline injury cases. I fully expect Aaron Jones to be back and running wild in this game, with a definite maybe on Watson. Jaire, I don't know. Not much has been said about what kind of a back problem he has. Either way, Valentine looked damn good against better WRs than Detroit has - assuming the bicep doesn't keep him out, which I doubt.

It kinda appears that the Lions have been hit with injuries too, maybe even worse than the Packers.

You really never do change your mind do you? When the Rams signed Goff to that huge deal I laughed my ass off. However I have to admit the obvious. Goff has been pretty good last year and this so far. The Lions look like a real football team. I'm not crowning them anything yet, and I like our young talent more, but the Lions have a future.

[bobblehead]

Not last year. Not the last game of the season last year.

Both teams have been hit hard by injury. For the Loins, it's mostly the offensive line - look how many of those guys are on the injury report. And when healthy, they have a good, very good, offensive line. I don't think the Packer D could hold up to that line, if it were healthy. And the Packers drafted the wrong St. Brown - little brother Amon Ra has been their go-to wide receiver. He's really good.

Look for Jamyr Ghibbs - or however you spell that RB's name - to have Bijan Robinson-versus-the-Packers type of numbers in this game. Similar guys, I think.

I'm going to guess The Flower is going to sit a bunch of guys again, so they get an extra ten days, then come back with a fuller deck of cards. Jones might play, and possible Bakh, but I'm guessing a lot of the other guys will be missing.

This is gonna be a tough one. Our defense - they drag guys down, they push them out of bounds - their defense? They hit. Hard.

This. We need a hard nosed DC that gets guys to play with attitude. I'm sick of the fat mike "staying in your lane" defensive mentality. Rashan Gary might be the type of guy to change all that (speaking of changing my mind on a player).

[Joemailman]

Two of the defenses the Packers have faced are top 10 in both yards and points allowed. When the offense faced a bad defense, they put up 31. Detroit defense ranks 11 and 15. If Packers offense reduces the penalties, I think they can get to 20-25. That is, if they can put together a decent offensive line.

[texaspackerbacker]

We'll see, but I still think the Lions are not much good. And good or bad (I'd say mostly bad), Goff is mostly a stationary QB. QBs like Fields and the Atlanta guy are scary and basically can make something out of nothing many times. Goff is just gonna sit there and be prey for Gary, and I'm expecting a big game from our other pass rushers too. And the younger better St. Brown is a far cry from Michael Thomas and Olave.

[call_me_ishmael]

The Lions have a record of 10-10 versus the Packers since 2013.

Better than the Vikings 8-10-2
And Bears 3-18

We always overlook the seemingly hapless Lions. In reality they’re our biggest rival of the last decade.

Wow, that's shocking to see those numbers. But yeah, the numbers prove you're right about this.

[Fosco33]

They may have had the most success against us, but I wouldn't make that the determining factor of who's been our biggest rival. The Vikings and Bears have both presented much more of an overall roadblock to winning the North over the last 30 years.

Fair… but as division wins are the most important element to division titles… wouldn’t that mean the Lion’s losses hurt more? Obv it ended our season last year. And took a miracle Hail Mary to beat them (which was needed for us to sneak into playoffs) a few years ago (Rodgers to Rodgers).

Rival is determined by the rabid-ness of the fans, media. I think everyone looks at the Pack as their biggest rival. And we always ignore the Lions (but maybe that should be up for debate).

[run pMc]

DET has won 3 of the last 4.

They have a very good if banged up OL.
Ben Johnson, the DET OC, has Jared Goff playing about as good as he ever has or will play.
They are a physical team that will beat you if you make mistakes or don't punch back.

St. Brown and La Porta could cause some problems if Barry doesn't plan for them.
The rookie Gibbs is a nice all purpose weapon as well. DeVondre is probably out or at least limited in this game so Quay will have a lot on his plate.

Kind of a coin flip game and hard to say because of injuries on a short week.
I'm rooting for GB of course, but if I had to pick I'd go with DET in a close one.

[Joemailman]

DET has won 3 of the last 4.

They have a very good if banged up OL.
Ben Johnson, the DET OC, has Jared Goff playing about as good as he ever has or will play.
They are a physical team that will beat you if you make mistakes or don't punch back.

St. Brown and La Porta could cause some problems if Barry doesn't plan for them.
The rookie Gibbs is a nice all purpose weapon as well. DeVondre is probably out or at least limited in this game so Quay will have a lot on his plate.

Kind of a coin flip game and hard to say because of injuries on a short week.
I'm rooting for GB of course, but if I had to pick I'd go with DET in a close one.

Detroit won both last year. The one they won in 2021 deserves an asterisk because Packers pulled their starters at halftime and Lions didn't. In the first game last year Packers moved the ball but were a disaster with their red zone offense. Rodgers threw 2 red zone interceptions. In the second one the Lions DL ran a lot of stunts and twists which were successful. With Bakhtiari and Jenkins out, will likely see more of that.

Biggest concern is whether the Packers will be able to run the ball at all. Packers #23 rush offense will go up against the Lions #5 rush defense.

[Joemailman]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F6-M7eaXoAAe1Cu?format=jpg&name=small

[Fritz]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F6-M7eaXoAAe1Cu?format=jpg&name=small

If Bakhtieri and Tom are both out, along with Jenkins, I just can't see a way this offense will be able to get anything going, whether or not Aaron Jones and/or Crustian Watson play. That means Goff, if his patched-together offensive line is better than Green Bay's patched-together offensive line, has the advantage, as the Packers' run defense cannot match that of the Loins.

And if Jones can't play, I'm thinking that The Flower will devise a game plan that basically puts it all on Jordan Love.

I think it's going to be too much for this young Green Bay team. The X-factor will be the health of each team's offensive line, and who has better backups.

[Joemailman]

Reportedly, Jones is supposed to play. I think he was actually close last week. I imagine both will be brought back gradually. Still would be great to have them back.

[Joemailman]

If they can have Jones, Jaire, Watson and Tom playing, I like their chances.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F6-nxa4W4AAbqSS?format=jpg&name=medium

[run pMc]

If they can have Jones, Jaire, Watson and Tom playing, I like their chances.

It definitely improves them. FWIW, Jackson, Nelson, Ragnow and Vaitai all show up on ourlads.com depth chart as starters, so they are beat up on OL as well. If GB's DL can get pressure on Goff, that could change things. I'd be downright shocked if they didn't test Joe Barry's run defense, especially after watching the ATL tape.

DET will be without CJ Gardner Johson and James Houston (both on IR) but their defense should be improved from last year. If Royce Newman (who has been ok off the bench) has to pickup a stunting Aidan Hutchinson all game, GB is in trouble.

[Tony Oday]

If the Packers can pressure Goff we win, if they give him time it could be a long day.

[texaspackerbacker]

If Bakhtieri and Tom are both out, along with Jenkins, I just can't see a way this offense will be able to get anything going, whether or not Aaron Jones and/or Crustian Watson play. That means Goff, if his patched-together offensive line is better than Green Bay's patched-together offensive line, has the advantage, as the Packers' run defense cannot match that of the Loins.

And if Jones can't play, I'm thinking that The Flower will devise a game plan that basically puts it all on Jordan Love.

I think it's going to be too much for this young Green Bay team. The X-factor will be the health of each team's offensive line, and who has better backups.

I've said over and over - with a lot of static from a lot of people, O Line beyond just the bare minimum really doesn't make much difference. Well, that idea is probably gonna get tested this week. I expect Aaron Jones to run wild and Dillon and (hopefully) Wilson and Taylor in the rotation also to get decent yardage despite no sacred cow, no Jenkins, and possibly no Tom too. Conversely, the Lions are likely missing their top RB and several O Linemen, and it's still worrisome that Joe Barry's run defense is still gonna get shredded.

I do expect the Packer pass rush to get home a LOT, and I do expect Love to have another great game, and I do thoroughly expect a Packer win.

[Fosco33]

The falcons ran for 200+ yards vs the Pack and the next week less than 50 vs the Lions. And you think we’re going to run all over the Lions with an injured line and questionable RBs? I won’t be shocked if we have under 100 from Jones/Dillon and hope Love can get 2-3 1st downs on his legs.

[Fritz]

That and our run defense is still rather suspect, so the Lions could use Gibbs to get outside and gash the defense, then use play action to get time to throw.

This Loins team actually smells different this year.

[Joemailman]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F7DvtpnWcAAD1tI?format=jpg&name=large

[RashanGary]

Nijman and Walker are serviceable.
Newman, Meijer and Runyan are…. Serviceable. Runyan is better, Newman worse, but as a whole, serviceable.


We still have a chance without Bakh, Jenkins and Tom.

[smuggler]

I would think Tom would play.

[pittstang5]

Bakh out again....this is getting ridiculous!

I wish I could collect a paycheck year after year and do nothing.

[RashanGary]

What’s more ridiculous is people on Twitter calling him soft and saying have integrity and give the money back. Literally swearing at him and calling him pussy and bitch.

It’s insane. People have lost their minds.

[Teamcheez1]

I don’t think the name-calling is appropriate, but the Packers made a calculated risk on Bakh and lost.

They have kept hanging on and hoping he can play for almost three years now. He did play 11 games last year, but I’m sure the staff held their breath every single week wondering when the next missed game would occur or if he would reinjure himself. What have we wasted, $50M, $60M?

They should have dumped him along with his contract last year. I will not be surprised if ends his career with the Packers riding the pine.

[smuggler]

It really is a shame, but his knee will likely never be the same. Stokes is in the same boat, but Bakhtiari gave us a lot of good years and it's not as if they're desperate for cap space right now. He should retire after this season.

[The Shadow]

Way too much money for a player who does not play.
Note to Matt : stop the horizontal run plays to Dillon.

[jklowan]

Packers placed LT David Bakhtiari (knee) on injured reserve.
Injury
2m ago
Source: Ian Rapoport (https://x.com/RapSheet/status/1707484078721613966?s=20)

[jklowan]

Packers CB Jaire Alexander (back) will not play in Week 4 against the Lions.

[Fritz]

Packers placed LT David Bakhtiari (knee) on injured reserve.
Injury
2m ago
Source: Ian Rapoport (https://x.com/RapSheet/status/1707484078721613966?s=20)

Well, fuck me.

So after insisting nothing specific had happened to cause Bakhtieri to miss the Atlanta and New Orleans games, they put him on IR. I think the organization pulled a fast one there. Something happened.

At this point, you hope he can come back, but it's looking doubtful. I didn't mind the original contract in 2020 - I thought he'd be worth it; didn't see him getting hurt like he did - but I did mind the way they restructured and pushed all his money forward. Now they're going to pay next year for a guy who probably won't even play this year, much less next. Not a good move.

This is going to be a tough game. I'm not sanguine about this one. No Jaire Alexander, no Bakh, no Campbell, maybe no Tom. And the Lions getting Taylor Decker back, so Sewell can go back to the right side.

I just hope they get out of this one unscathed.

[MadScientist]

Jones and Watson are expected to play. Even on a pitch count, that's going to be a big boost to the offense.

[Fritz]

No doubt. Especially as the Loins have struggled with backs catching passes out of the backfield.

[Fosco33]

I was against resigning Bahk before the injury and stand by that despite good play when he’s out there.

[red]

I said it early last year when he couldn’t get healthy, he’s done. He’s either hurt beyond repair, or he can play through the pain.he’s just collecting a a very big paycheck these days

Should have been preparing to move on for 2 drafts now

[ThunderDan]

I've said over and over - with a lot of static from a lot of people, O Line beyond just the bare minimum really doesn't make much difference. Well, that idea is probably gonna get tested this week. I expect Aaron Jones to run wild and Dillon and (hopefully) Wilson and Taylor in the rotation also to get decent yardage despite no sacred cow, no Jenkins, and possibly no Tom too. Conversely, the Lions are likely missing their top RB and several O Linemen, and it's still worrisome that Joe Barry's run defense is still gonna get shredded.

I do expect the Packer pass rush to get home a LOT, and I do expect Love to have another great game, and I do thoroughly expect a Packer win.

Bump

[texaspackerbacker]

I have to concede being wrong about the badness of the O Line making a difference. Give one to the shitheads and haters who glory in being right about such a rotten Packer game. Shame on those assholes and fuck 'em. If the shoe fits ......

I'm wondering whose doghouse Nijman is in and maybe Rhyan too. They couldn't be much worse than Newman and Walker.

The biggest problem, though, was still Joe Barry's lame-assed D scheme. Just about any other team's D does more with less talent.

[run pMc]

You've made a lot of dubious takes and TDan decided to take receipts and remind you.

Nobody enjoys a Packer loss, especially a bad one.

At least you admitted you're wrong. :)

[SudsMcBucky]

I don’t think the name-calling is appropriate, but the Packers made a calculated risk on Bakh and lost.

They have kept hanging on and hoping he can play for almost three years now. He did play 11 games last year, but I’m sure the staff held their breath every single week wondering when the next missed game would occur or if he would reinjure himself. What have we wasted, $50M, $60M?

They should have dumped him along with his contract last year. I will not be surprised if ends his career with the Packers riding the pine.

If I recall correctly, I don't think it was fiscally even possible to cut him last year. I think that cap hit, along with what we're taking with Rodgers, just wasn't possible at that time. They almost HAD to take a shot on this year. But, he's mostly definitely done as a Packer after this year.

[run pMc]

If I recall correctly, I don't think it was fiscally even possible to cut him last year. I think that cap hit, along with what we're taking with Rodgers, just wasn't possible at that time. They almost HAD to take a shot on this year. But, he's mostly definitely done as a Packer after this year.

Agree. They would have had to cut players to cut or trade Bakhtiari. This next offseason is the first where they can cut him and get any cap savings, even if it will cost them a big chunk of dead cap.
Also agree he's probably gone after this year. I don't think he can be relied upon to be available, and the team can't continue forward with a LT who might wake up any random Sun morning and decide his knee can't go. Great when he's available, but he's been available for 13 of the last 38 games since his surgeries, and now he's getting more work done on his knee. His contract extension has turned out to be one of the all-time worst and I think that's the final nail in the coffin.

I wouldn't say he's soft or call him names or send him hate. I'm not sure many would be able to do what he has after so many surgeries. That's a lot of rehab and hard work. He's already been paid most of the money. He clearly loves to play the game and wants to, but I think his body is telling him not to play and he's been ignoring it. If anything, the FO should rethink giving out 3rd contracts or structure them for better outs. Then again, they had no idea he'd get hurt, and they also pushed a lot of money forward to end up in this cap situation -- something TedT often fought.

I don't think this ends up well for anyone, which is too bad.

[Fritz]

I wonder if Sean Rhyan will be seeing a lot of work this week at left guard...

I must say, Zach Tom, whom we all really liked, did not have a stellar game, at all. Don't know if it was the injury, but he weren't good. Hell, none of them were any good.

[MadScientist]

Agree. They would have had to cut players to cut or trade Bakhtiari. This next offseason is the first where they can cut him and get any cap savings, even if it will cost them a big chunk of dead cap.
Also agree he's probably gone after this year. I don't think he can be relied upon to be available, and the team can't continue forward with a LT who might wake up any random Sun morning and decide his knee can't go. Great when he's available, but he's been available for 13 of the last 38 games since his surgeries, and now he's getting more work done on his knee. His contract extension has turned out to be one of the all-time worst and I think that's the final nail in the coffin.

I wouldn't say he's soft or call him names or send him hate. I'm not sure many would be able to do what he has after so many surgeries. That's a lot of rehab and hard work. He's already been paid most of the money. He clearly loves to play the game and wants to, but I think his body is telling him not to play and he's been ignoring it. If anything, the FO should rethink giving out 3rd contracts or structure them for better outs. Then again, they had no idea he'd get hurt, and they also pushed a lot of money forward to end up in this cap situation -- something TedT often fought.

I don't think this ends up well for anyone, which is too bad.
For whatever reason, his knee hasn't responded well enough to the surgeries. Either the damage was too great to fully repair, or the healing didn't go as well as it needed to. It's fair to be annoyed that the big contract hasn't worked out for the Packers, but Bakh isn't soft. It's the NFL, injuries happen and it sucks, especially when it's a good player on our team.

[ThunderDan]

You've made a lot of dubious takes and TDan decided to take receipts and remind you.

Nobody enjoys a Packer loss, especially a bad one.

At least you admitted you're wrong. :)

Thank you. My feelings exactly.

The game sucked yesterday.

I didn’t want TPB to be wrong but knew if we did win it was going to be a hell of a tight close fought game.

Not a cake walk running behind two replacements in the left side of the line and our C playing poorly this year.

[CaptainKickass]

I had to check the roster to make sure he was still in fact a Packer. As horrible as the running game has been, maybe it's time to get creative, dig down deep and deploy the giant (even for NFL lineman) 6 foot 9 inch 370lb Caleb Jones (https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/bio/_/id/4258246/caleb-jones).

If memory serves, The Packers were high enough on his potential, size and mobility to sign him to the regular roster after other teams showed interest while on the practice squad last season. Now, in his second year he should know the playbook and should have gained strength in year two of NFL physical training.

He's listed as a Tackle but perhaps inserting him at guard would give the offense a starting point for running behind him.

It's an old, yet simple strategy: Put the biggest man out there, then run behind him.
The change must start somewhere. Running the ball should be what the team does best.

[Fritz]

Or put Sean Rhyan at left guard. Do something. "Rolled" Royce is mostly serviceable, but that's being generous and isn't good enough anyway.

[red]

Obviously, what we have on the roster isn’t good enough to do the job

We all saw it last night, they were all horrible

Time to start looking outside the org for replacements

[texaspackerbacker]

First thing, just as with Joe Barry's defense, probably coaching has a lot to do with it. I think it's safe to say that a lot of teams/a lot of O Line coaches have a lot better performance with equal or worse talent.

Secondly, this was one horrible game. A lot of people in here are panicking and making it seem worse than it is.

[bobblehead]

I had to check the roster to make sure he was still in fact a Packer. As horrible as the running game has been, maybe it's time to get creative, dig down deep and deploy the giant (even for NFL lineman) 6 foot 9 inch 370lb Caleb Jones (https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/bio/_/id/4258246/caleb-jones).

If memory serves, The Packers were high enough on his potential, size and mobility to sign him to the regular roster after other teams showed interest while on the practice squad last season. Now, in his second year he should know the playbook and should have gained strength in year two of NFL physical training.

He's listed as a Tackle but perhaps inserting him at guard would give the offense a starting point for running behind him.

It's an old, yet simple strategy: Put the biggest man out there, then run behind him.
The change must start somewhere. Running the ball should be what the team does best.

You can't really have a 6'9" guard. First of all leverage and such. Second of all, Love would have his vision blocked too often. He could however play RT while Tom moves to G.

[bobblehead]

Or put Sean Rhyan at left guard. Do something. "Rolled" Royce is mostly serviceable, but that's being generous and isn't good enough anyway.

Very generous. Newman flashes some talent once a game and makes me go wow....then he sucks ass the rest of the game.

[bobblehead]

First thing, just as with Joe Barry's defense, probably coaching has a lot to do with it. I think it's safe to say that a lot of teams/a lot of O Line coaches have a lot better performance with equal or worse talent.

Secondly, this was one horrible game. A lot of people in here are panicking and making it seem worse than it is.

Injuries mostly to blame. You can fade Bak if Jenkins is there. You can fade Jenkins if Bak is there. You can survive with Myers if the rest are in tact. But Myers regression combined with BOTH all pros on the left side going down is just too much. And even with all that Love still held the ball too long on the occasions where they did hold up. Run blocking was abysmal though.

[texaspackerbacker]

That's true, but a LOT of teams a lot of times do really well with the "next man up" thing both regarding the O Line and the defense. Joe Barry is pretty bad that way - amongst the many ways he is pretty bad. It's funny, in past times, we've had whole threads wildly piling on the Packers O line coach by name as being so bad. Honestly, I can't even think of who the O Line coach is now, but he sure doesn't get a pass in this because of the injuries or perceived regression of players like Newman and maybe Myers. Some dumbass in some thread said I never admit when I'm wrong hahahaha. Well, I'm getting close to coming to a conclusion that I was wrong about Myers being so good. Hopefully he snaps out of it.

[RashanGary]

Yeah. He’s not good. I get why you liked him. Bigger guy. Fairly strong. We know you believe in that size/strength thing up front. But he can’t get to his blocks, so he’s whiffing. It’s not going well for Myers.

[run pMc]

Myers isn't bad, he just isn't good. He's average. That KC picked Creed Humphrey right after him is unfortunate luck, but also iffy scouting by GB.

They wanted a taller player at C with experience in big games, toughness, and good athletic ability. Coming out of OSU Myers checked all those boxes. He's struggled with consistency at the pro level. The GB offense also asks a lot of their IOL in terms or reach blocks, pulling, and getting to the second level. That's why they go with good athletes instead of fat ugly slow road graders. It's about scheme fit. You want road graders for power run scheme, you want superior athletes for zone blocking. It's pretty rare to have a C who can execute some of the pulls and reaches they ask of Myers, and I think he's not always up to the task. The other thing is at times he just gets mauled at the POA and you don't want to see that. I wonder if having a shorter/stouter player (6'3" instead of 6'5") would help with better anchor. He gives good effort and isn't a tire fire, but you'd hope for more from a R2 pick.

They will definitely be looking at OL next year -- both at T and especially on the interior. I don't think they can (or will) keep trotting out Newman. They have to find out what they have in Rhyan, and they need to figure out whether to keep Tom at T or move him inside.
Runyan's contract is up, and Myers has one year left... so there will be a lot of decisions to make there. Ideally they don't start 2 rookies on the OL next year.

Safety and RB will be other areas I'd expect they look for help. Oh, and defensive coordinator.

[Sparkey]

Yeah. He’s not good. I get why you liked him. Bigger guy. Fairly strong. We know you believe in that size/strength thing up front. But he can’t get to his blocks, so he’s whiffing. It’s not going well for Myers.

To be fair, no one would look good with Neumann playing next to them. I believe there was one play I saw where Myers handed off a block to Nuemann, but Royce wasn't set deep enough and failed to get even remotely close to picking up the handoff.

[run pMc]

Royce was ok in the NO game, but bad in the DET game. I have to think coaches are looking at all their options for replacing him in the lineup.

Myers has been ok this year. Probably a little better than last year.

[Joemailman]

Royce was ok in the NO game, but bad in the DET game. I have to think coaches are looking at all their options for replacing him in the lineup.

Myers has been ok this year. Probably a little better than last year.

Until Jenkins can go, I'd be moving Tom to LG and start Nijman at RT. They always talk about wanting to play their best 5. I can't believe that includes Newman. If they feel Nijman is a lost cause, I'd put Rhyan in there and see what he can do.

[Fritz]

Myers isn't bad, he just isn't good. He's average. That KC picked Creed Humphrey right after him is unfortunate luck, but also iffy scouting by GB.

They wanted a taller player at C with experience in big games, toughness, and good athletic ability. Coming out of OSU Myers checked all those boxes. He's struggled with consistency at the pro level. The GB offense also asks a lot of their IOL in terms or reach blocks, pulling, and getting to the second level. That's why they go with good athletes instead of fat ugly slow road graders. It's about scheme fit. You want road graders for power run scheme, you want superior athletes for zone blocking. It's pretty rare to have a C who can execute some of the pulls and reaches they ask of Myers, and I think he's not always up to the task. The other thing is at times he just gets mauled at the POA and you don't want to see that. I wonder if having a shorter/stouter player (6'3" instead of 6'5") would help with better anchor. He gives good effort and isn't a tire fire, but you'd hope for more from a R2 pick.

They will definitely be looking at OL next year -- both at T and especially on the interior. I don't think they can (or will) keep trotting out Newman. They have to find out what they have in Rhyan, and they need to figure out whether to keep Tom at T or move him inside.
Runyan's contract is up, and Myers has one year left... so there will be a lot of decisions to make there. Ideally they don't start 2 rookies on the OL next year.

Safety and RB will be other areas I'd expect they look for help. Oh, and defensive coordinator.

I think the bolded area above is quite true. They DO need to see if Rhyan can be a starting guard in this league, and they need to figure out where Tom's best position is.They can also find out this year whether Walker's best position is right tackle or left tackle. Then, too, they've got to see how much Runyan might get on the free agent market. He's solid but not great, and they're already paying Jenkins top dollar. If he's willing to sign for a reasonable sum, that's one less moving piece. I would think they'd be looking also to upgrade at center. So, yes, next draft, probably at least one center, a guard or two, a tackle or two, depending on how this season's offensive line shakes out.

That, along with safety and running back and possible another corner, is going to eat up most of their draft picks.

[RashanGary]

They probably have a pretty good idea whether Rhyan is any good. When they cut Josh Sitton they had a pretty good idea that Lane Taylor was alright even though we didn’t see much of him. Rhyan not playing says a lot.

[run pMc]

Who are the best 5 OL, regardless of position?

Heading into game 1 I'd say it was the starting lineup vs. CHI.
Bakhtiari is done. Jenkins still hurt. Runyan in a walking boot. Tom has a sore knee. Yikes.

I think if we assume no Bakh and Jenkins, but Runyan and Tom can go, you experiment with the line, probably starting with
Walker - Tom - Myers - Runyan - Njiman

That's what I'd try first. I'd give Newman and Rhyan a few snaps to compete for LG as well, but I think you have to move Tom inside and start Njiman at RT if possible. He's better at LT but I think they should be able to get by with him at RT for a game.

I had high hopes for Rhyan, but I think you're probably right about him not being very good and thus explains Newman playing over him. He's only in his second year, and looked better this preseason vs. last, so maybe he'll figure it out by Year 3, but you'd hope/expect more from a R3 pick. Dang curse.

[bobblehead]

Somewhere I whined about our OL going from what I thought was world beaters to wife beaters. Since the discussion in this thread had trended that way I thought this article was a really nice breakdown.

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2023/10/02/from-strength-to-weakness-packers-ol-may-need-talent-infusion-in-2024-draft/

[run pMc]

I think the OL if healthy is very good. Few teams are going to have good OLs when you're starting your OL7 and playing your OL8. They have depth but ideally you don't want it to be tested as early or frequently as it has this season.
It's a little early to talk draft, but I think it's always been understood that next year they will go after some OL. They didn't draft a single OL this year; a clear sign they liked who they had as well as having a plan long term.

They'll start to clear Bakhtiari off the books, probably let Runyan and Njiman test FA, get Myers competition, bring in another T and at least one if not two IOL. In other words, a lot of turnover at OL. Maybe they sign a modest priced FA.

Right now, they have players who can mostly pass protect but if you are looking to reset the LOS against a physical defensive front, forget it. I think they will look to change that a little bit. 2 of their first 4 picks will probably be OL. RB and S are other needs, but that's getting ahead of things. Lots of football to go yet.

[Fritz]

How far into the doghouse must Nijman be to not be considered one of the Packers' best five offensive linemen when Bakh and Jenkins are both out? God, what did the guy DO? He's certainly a better tackle than Rolled Royce is a guard, and it appeared last year that Tom could play guard better than Rolled Royce. They tried Newman and he's not getting it done. So move on - either move Tom inside and start Nijman outside, or, if you insist on Nijman riding the pine, then give Rhyan a shot at guard. Or start Tom at center and give Rhyan a shot at guard and get Nijman off the bench. For a team that supposedly values versatility, they seem to be stuck on Walker-Newman-Myers-Runyan-Tom, and that hasn't been working.

[run pMc]

I think Bakhtiari's knee status impacted roster decisions, and I think they lack quality depth at IOL.
Next year I'm guessing Bakh is gone and they will have a bit more cap space. Between that and draft capital they should be able to resolve some of those roster/talent imbalances.

[bobblehead]

How far into the doghouse must Nijman be to not be considered one of the Packers' best five offensive linemen when Bakh and Jenkins are both out? God, what did the guy DO? He's certainly a better tackle than Rolled Royce is a guard, and it appeared last year that Tom could play guard better than Rolled Royce. They tried Newman and he's not getting it done. So move on - either move Tom inside and start Nijman outside, or, if you insist on Nijman riding the pine, then give Rhyan a shot at guard. Or start Tom at center and give Rhyan a shot at guard and get Nijman off the bench. For a team that supposedly values versatility, they seem to be stuck on Walker-Newman-Myers-Runyan-Tom, and that hasn't been working.

He is way in the doghouse. My guess is that they would have cut him, but they want the comp pick by letting him walk after the season.

[Fritz]

Makes you wonder what the poor bastard did. It's hard to imagine it's just his on-the-field work. He seemed like a reasonably hard-enough worker.

Did he try to bang MLF's wife? Did he express untoward political opinions? Was he not masculine-seeming enough? Jayzuz, if the guy can play, play him. Surely he's a better tackle than Rolled Royce is a guard.

[Joemailman]

Don't know what happened, but Stenavich had this to say about Nijman right before the season started.


“Right now, he’s a backup tackle for us,” Stenavich said Thursday. “That’s where he’s at and football is a very competitive sport and some guys rise to that competition and some guys don’t, so that’s basically what I have to say about that.”

For a while I thought maybe he just got beat out by Rasheed Walker. But the fact that they've started Royce Newman in games when the presumably could have moved Tom to LG and put Nijman at RT suggests there's more to it than that.

[RashanGary]

Maybe he had a garbage offseason. Where he came back out of shape.

[RashanGary]

I don’t know what, but he didn’t give 100. That’s for sure.