Official 2024 NFL Draft Thread

[Joemailman]

Are the vikes gonna trade all the way up to #2 and draft the LSU dude? I bet they are.

I don't think any of those top 3 teams would want to trade all the way down to 11. And if they did, they would demand a huge price. I think the Vikings will set their sights on McCarthy.

[Frozen Tundra]

I don't think any of those top 3 teams would want to trade all the way down to 11. And if they did, they would demand a huge price. I think the Vikings will set their sights on McCarthy.

I can see Chicago doing it for the right package. They know damned well they're going to be drafting high again for at least one more year.

What I can't envision is even Minnesota being dumb enough to offer what it would probably take.

[Fritz]

I can see Chicago doing it for the right package. They know damned well they're going to be drafting high again for at least one more year.

What I can't envision is even Minnesota being dumb enough to offer what it would probably take.

That IS the organization that gave up their entire draft AND Bud Grant’s daughter for Herschel Walker.

[sharpe1027]

That IS the organization that gave up their entire draft AND Bud Grant’s daughter for Herschel Walker.

His daughter was by her own choice after hearing about the deal terms.

[Fritz]

His daughter was by her own choice after hearing about the deal terms.

Yes, it was consensual. For sure.

[run pMc]

I think some in the MIN front office might be feeling warm seats, but I agree with the sentiment that they are probably looking at Nix, Penix or McCarthynix. Maye, Williams, and Daniels will be gone when they pick and it will be very expensive to move up to get one of them. They can draft a QB a bit lower, let them sit & learn for a year, and meanwhile sign Cousins to a 2 year 100M deal or some such nonsense.

[ThunderDan]

I think some in the MIN front office might be feeling warm seats, but I agree with the sentiment that they are probably looking at Nix, Penix or McCarthynix. Maye, Williams, and Daniels will be gone when they pick and it will be very expensive to move up to get one of them. They can draft a QB a bit lower, let them sit & learn for a year, and meanwhile sign Cousins to a 2 year 100M deal or some such nonsense.

NFL radio said Cousins was ready to take 2nd tier money. Somewhere in the $35-$40M range per year but wanted the contract 100% guaranteed.

[Fritz]

I think some in the MIN front office might be feeling warm seats, but I agree with the sentiment that they are probably looking at Nix, Penix or McCarthynix. Maye, Williams, and Daniels will be gone when they pick and it will be very expensive to move up to get one of them. They can draft a QB a bit lower, let them sit & learn for a year, and meanwhile sign Cousins to a 2 year 100M deal or some such nonsense.

That does make sense - if they think one of those three can be a top-tier NFL QB. You don't want to be drafting an average or below average NFL starter who will likely have to sit for a year.

As for Cousins, is it really "2nd tier" money if it's all guaranteed?

[bobblehead]

I'd still bet money that we don't even draft the first night - drop back out of Round One and end up with about 13 picks again this year.

Too many picks on a very young roster to do that. Although if they dropped out of round one and drafted 4 times in the 2nd I wouldn't be upset.

[bobblehead]

NFL radio said Cousins was ready to take 2nd tier money. Somewhere in the $35-$40M range per year but wanted the contract 100% guaranteed.

Patriots should sign him for a 2 year deal to mentor their next QB in waiting. Or really any team that is drafting a young QB, but has a shot to make the playoffs while he learns.

[call_me_ishmael]

Patriots should sign him for a 2 year deal to mentor their next QB in waiting. Or really any team that is drafting a young QB, but has a shot to make the playoffs while he learns.

This is what the Bear should do if they were smart, but they're the Bears, so they won't.

[Joemailman]

This is what the Bear should do if they were smart, but they're the Bears, so they won't.

Patriots got just a 5th and a 6th for Mac Jones. Bears might figure that the market is so weak for Fields that they might as well keep him for now. Might get more for him later if some team's starting QB gets hurt.

[texaspackerbacker]

If the Bears are smart, they'll keep Fields as their QB1, and use their top pick(s) for something else. I'm not familiar enough with their needs to know exactly what they need. But they're the Bears, so probably they'll draft a QB and give up on Fields and continue to suck.

[run pMc]

Patriots got just a 5th and a 6th for Mac Jones. Bears might figure that the market is so weak for Fields that they might as well keep him for now. Might get more for him later if some team's starting QB gets hurt.

Yikes. Jeudy went to CLE for a R5 and R6

[Joemailman]

Yikes. Jeudy went to CLE for a R5 and R6

The reporting now is it's just a 6th for Mac Jones. Mayfield is re-signing with Bucs. Wilson is reportedly signing with Steelers. If Cousins signs with Falcons, where is the market for Fields?

[run pMc]

The reporting now is it's just a 6th for Mac Jones. Mayfield is re-signing with Bucs. Wilson is reportedly signing with Steelers. If Cousins signs with Falcons, where is the market for Fields?

Good question. MIN? WAS? NE? DEN? I know some teams are probably still in love with the talent, but after 4 years you have an idea of what you're going to get. Picks, fumbles, and a few Wow plays. When his legs go, he'll be out of the league fast.
I'd stay away, but QB needy teams might kick the tires on him. Personally I wouldn't trade a high pick (Day 1 or 2) for him, more like a conditional R6 or R7.

[texaspackerbacker]

I say again, if the Bears are anything other than completely stupid, they will keep Fields and draft something other than a QB. To me, the worst case from a Packer point of view would be for the Vikings to grab Fields - having him go to a team with a lot better talent around him than the Bears.

[Joemailman]

The Packers Wire
@ThePackersWire

Packers to host top 30 pre-draft visit with Michigan OL Zak Zinter

Zinter broke his leg against Ohio St. When healthy, he would provide instant competition at RG.

[Fritz]

That guy is a gamer. I’ d be thrilled if the Packers selected him. I believe he also plays center.

[run pMc]

Interesting. I'd assume they want their own doctors to check out the leg, etc.

GB has a now well-known penchant under Gute for rostering a significant percentage of the guys they bring in for a top 30 visit.
if he can play C that would be nice, I thought he was a little tall for C though?

I don't think they will pick an OL who doesn't have at least some positional flexibility, unless it is one of the obvious franchise T types that should be gone well before 25.

[Sparkey]

https://imgur.com/a/kt46SIuHere's my post combine mock. Traded # 88 in round 3 to the Steelers for 119 & 120 in round 4.

https://i.imgur.com/nIiy4wv.png
https://imgur.com/a/kt46SIu
https://imgur.com/a/kt46SIu
https://imgur.com/a/kt46SIu

[bobblehead]

Sparky, I'm not a college expert by any means, but if we pulled off the left side of that (the top 6) I'd be grinning like a 16 year old that just got his first hand job. Landing a CB/S hybrid, an offball LB to pair with quay and a versatile OL in the top 3. Just silly. Puni is a grunt and could add competition to the interior (along with a nasty streak from what I understand).

That said, I have read a lot of mocks and none of them give Walker any credit for his massive improvement throughout the season. Early on they had to keep a TE in for help on most pass plays and he was a liability in the run game. As he got comfortable (and chippy maybe from the rotation with Yosh) he stopped needing any help against most pass rushers and actually pancaked enough guys in the run game to make me confident we don't need a new LT. Now I get that he took time, but JH constantly pointed out his natural tools for pass pro, and when he stopped thinking and got a little nasty in the run game he was beyond average. Unless he suddenly regresses we have our LT for a decade.

Part of the reason I love the Morgan pick is because he can play 4 positions unless he flat out can't adjust to the right side. If they land him they can move Tom or just plug him in at RG. We definitely need some talent infusion to the OL.

Wright had an elite combine and would be a perfect AJ replacement. Not sure how great his vision is, but he can pass protect and catch the ball. That would be a great draft imo.

[Deputy Nutz]

Here is my first Mock Draft with all teams and no trades. I think there are going to be a lot of teams moving in this draft. The Giants are pretty attached to Danny Jones and I can see three teams wanting to move ahead of each other to get their QB. The Broncos, Vikings, and the Raiders could set their sights on one particular QB and they have to jump each other to get there. The Bears are in a tough spot because they can't unload Fields, and he isn't so damn bad that you cut him without getting anything for him and I don't think you take a QB with him on the roster. It will be a shit show in Chicago.

1. BEARS Marvin Harrison Jr. WR Ohio State

2. WASHINGTON Caleb Williams QB USC

3. PATRIOTS Jayden Daniels QB LSU

4. CARDINALS Malik Nabers WR LSU

5. CHARGERS Brock Bowers TE Georgia

6. GIANTS Dallas Turner EDGE Alabama

7. TITANS Joe Alt OT Notre Dame

8. FALCONS Rome Odunze WR Washington

9. BEARS Quinyon Mitchell CB Toledo

10. JETS Olumuyiwa Fashanu OT Penn State

11. VIKINGS Drake Maye QB North Carolina

12. BRONCOS J.J. McCarthy

13. RAIDERS Taliese Fuaga OT Oregon State

14. SAINTS JC LathamOT Alabama

15. COLTSBrian Thomas Jr. WR LSU

16. SEAHAWKS Jackson Powers-Johnson OC Oregon

17. JAGUARSLaiatu Latu EDGE UCLA

18. BENGALS Amarius Mims OT Georgia

19. RAMS Terrion Arnold CB Alabama

20. STEELERS Cooper DeJean S Iowa

21. DOLPHINS Jared Verse EDGE Florida State

22. EAGLES Nate Wiggins CB Clemson

23. TEXANS Adonai Mitchell WR Texas

24. COWBOYS Troy Fautanu OT Washington

25. PACKERS Kool-Aid McKinstry CB Alabama

26. BUCS Troy Franklin WR Oregon

27. CARDINALS Graham Barton OG Duke

28. BUFFALO Chop Robinson EDGE Penn State

29. LIONS Johnny Newton DT Illinois

30. RAVENS Keon Coleman WR Florida State

31. 49ERS Byron Murphy II DT Texas

32. CHIEFS Xavier Worthy WR Texas

[Joemailman]

Vikings have traded for Texans #23 pick. Lot of people think they will be packaging 2 1st round picks to move up in 1st round to take QB. Although if you're right, they may not have to.

[Deputy Nutz]

25. Cooper DeJean S Iowa - Not entirely sure why he is a safety, probably because he is white. He is a cover 2 / quarters corner. He hasn't run because of an injury so I would like to see his numbers before I would think of taking him with the first pick. He is aggressive which is good for a team that would like a CB to press.

41. T'Vondre Sweat DT Texas - You don't stop the run with linebackers, you stop the run with 6'5" 350 pound space eaters.

58. Junior Colson LB Michigan - I think Colson is the best overall linebacker in the draft. He hasn't run yet so his track numbers could be great or shit.

88. Dominick Puni OG Kansas - He wouldn't be my first target for the interior line but this is sort of how it fell. I probably felt I needed to address the need and probably reached.

91. Roger Rosengarten OT Washington - Super high RAS guy but I don't know if his play matches his testing numbers. probably a reasonable backup

126. Malik Mustapha S Wake Forest - He didn't run at the combine, but he did bench. He is supposed to run really well and if he did, he would have a RAS score that would be attractive.

169. Elijah Jones CB Boston College - Great frame at 6'1" and a RAS score of 9.48. All this goes with the fact he is from Boston College.

202. Nehemiah Pritchett CB Auburn - similar frame to Jones with a high end RAS score. Has some of the press and man to man skills that current Packers defense could be looking for

219. Isaac Guerendo RB Louisville - Packers don't need to look crazy high up the draft for a running back, but the talent level of the backs falls off pretty dramatically after the tier of 3rd rounders. Guerendo will never be a featured back but he has a ridiculously high RAS score and you are able to see glimpses of that type of talent when he comes out of the backfield. Could help with kick returns and other special teams

245.Tyrone Tracy Jr. RB Purdue - Former WR, transferred to Purdue where he took a year to adapt to the running back position. He could take some time to develop but obviously he should be able to catch the ball out of the backfield.

255. Frank Crum OT Wyoming - Sort of became the media darling of the combine. 6'8 315 pounds and can run pretty well and had RAS of 9.82. Small school kid that is built like a tackle. I don't actually know if he would be available this late in the draft.

[Deputy Nutz]

So the Vikings get the 23rd pick, and a 232nd pick
Texans get the 42nd pick, and the 188th pick plus 2nd round pick in 2025.

I think the Texans are stupid for making this trade this far out of the draft. To me this is night of the draft, sitting on the 23rd pick with the guy you wanted just scooped up with the 22nd pick type of trade.

[Deputy Nutz]

Bears trade for Keenan Allen, give up a 4th round pick

[bobblehead]

25. Cooper DeJean S Iowa - Not entirely sure why he is a safety, probably because he is white. He is a cover 2 / quarters corner. He hasn't run because of an injury so I would like to see his numbers before I would think of taking him with the first pick. He is aggressive which is good for a team that would like a CB to press.

41. T'Vondre Sweat DT Texas - You don't stop the run with linebackers, you stop the run with 6'5" 350 pound space eaters.

58. Junior Colson LB Michigan - I think Colson is the best overall linebacker in the draft. He hasn't run yet so his track numbers could be great or shit.

88. Dominick Puni OG Kansas - He wouldn't be my first target for the interior line but this is sort of how it fell. I probably felt I needed to address the need and probably reached.

91. Roger Rosengarten OT Washington - Super high RAS guy but I don't know if his play matches his testing numbers. probably a reasonable backup

126. Malik Mustapha S Wake Forest - He didn't run at the combine, but he did bench. He is supposed to run really well and if he did, he would have a RAS score that would be attractive.

169. Elijah Jones CB Boston College - Great frame at 6'1" and a RAS score of 9.48. All this goes with the fact he is from Boston College.

202. Nehemiah Pritchett CB Auburn - similar frame to Jones with a high end RAS score. Has some of the press and man to man skills that current Packers defense could be looking for

219. Isaac Guerendo RB Louisville - Packers don't need to look crazy high up the draft for a running back, but the talent level of the backs falls off pretty dramatically after the tier of 3rd rounders. Guerendo will never be a featured back but he has a ridiculously high RAS score and you are able to see glimpses of that type of talent when he comes out of the backfield. Could help with kick returns and other special teams

245.Tyrone Tracy Jr. RB Purdue - Former WR, transferred to Purdue where he took a year to adapt to the running back position. He could take some time to develop but obviously he should be able to catch the ball out of the backfield.

255. Frank Crum OT Wyoming - Sort of became the media darling of the combine. 6'8 315 pounds and can run pretty well and had RAS of 9.82. Small school kid that is built like a tackle. I don't actually know if he would be available this late in the draft.
DeJean is a safety because we still have a gaping hole and he can play it. Oh...and he's white. But honestly he can definitely be a good CB. A very nice piece to have.

No way they take Sweat there. He had a terrible RAS. I'm not disputing should, I'm simply saying Gutes won't.

Mustapha may run at a pro day and that could impact his draft stock a lot either way.

Jones is almost a lock to be a packer with the new Halfwit defense right?

[run pMc]

I'm indifferent on Dejean. I know a lot of people like him, and he looked like a good player for Iowa.
I'm not sure how Iowa's D translates to Hafley's defense. I wonder if he would have been a better fit in Barry's scheme.
Moreover, Dejean was playing CB, not S. AFAIK he's never played S, so you're going on a projection. Seems a little bit of a gamble if you're taking him R1 to play S, although I suppose you could try him at slot CB first. Am I missing something?

I love Sweat's size and raw power, but it feels like they have a bit of a full house in the DL room. He's a 2 down rotational guy so 41 feels a little rich for me; if he's there at 58 I'd feel better about taking him.

I know nothing about Frank Crum other than he blew up the combine. So did Jason Spriggs. Did he ever block anyone from the SEC successfully? I suppose late R7/UDFA is fine.
I'm out on a lot of the combine darlings - Guerendo being another. Couldn't stay healthy or beat out Allen, Mellusi, etc. at UW, or even Jawhar Jordan at Louisville. I don't know that his tape shows anything other than special teams guy or PS RB.

[Joemailman]

Did this mock at nflmockdraftdatabsse:

(25) Amarius Mims - OT - Georgia

(41) Edgerrin Cooper - LB - Texas A&M

(58) Tyler Nubin - S - Minnesota

(88) Jonathan Brooks - RB - Texas

(91) Kris Abrams Draine - CB - Missouri

(126) Christian Mahogany - IOL - Boston College

(169) Mohamed Kamara - EDGE - Colorado St.

(202) Gabe Hall - DL - Baylor

(219) Dylan Laube- RB - New Hampshire

(245) J.D. Bertrand - LB - Notre Dame

(255) Jordan Whittington - WR - Texas

[run pMc]

Cooper, Nubin, and Brooks would be a nice Day 2 haul. If Mo Kamara isn't Carl Bradford 2.0 that might be fun.
I like Whittington quite a bit as a developmental WR.

Not sure what to make of Mims. I was underwhelmed by UGA's OL at times, but he's just a giant athletic man. Thought he had trouble staying healthy? I suspect they go defense in R1 and take a couple developmental OL guys who have versatility on Days 2 & 3. Mahogany is a good example.

[Joemailman]

I debated between Mims and Newton at 25. Newton is probably the safer choice.

[jklowan]

Trade down in Round 1 and still get our guy - I'd be pretty happy with this haul as it addresses most of our needs

30 Graham Barton
IOL | Duke


41 Edgerrin Cooper
LB | Texas A&M


58 Tyler Nubin
S | Minnesota


62 Kiran Amegadjie
OT | Yale


88 Jonathon Brooks
RB | Texas


91 Sedrick Van Pran
IOL | Georgia


93 Kris Abrams-Draine
CB | Missouri


113 Dominick Puni
IOL | Kansas


126 DeWayne Carter
DL | Duke


169 Jaylan Ford
LB | Texas


202 Malik Mustapha
S | Wake Forest


219 Drake Stoops
WR | Oklahoma


245 Cedric Johnson
EDGE | Mississippi


255 Grayson Murphy
EDGE | UCLA


[Fritz]

Three linebackers
Three safeties
Two running backs
Three offensive linemen

Anybody do that make draft yet?

[bobblehead]

I wish I knew Mims because his physique is ridiculous. He might be the best OT in the game by 2025 or he might be out of the game buy 2026. Given his natural traits he should be projected in the top 5. The fact that he isn't scares the hell out of me. Its all going to come down to how bad he wants to be great. Albert Haynesworth was unblockable when he felt like it...the problem was he didn't care.

[run pMc]

Mims didn't play a lot. That's why he's not higher. He's played in all of 21 games in college, some of that as a backup. Hard to see him as a Week 1 NFL starter.

[pittstang5]

Question for all the Draft Gurus in here:

I just did one of these NFL Mock Draft simulators, picking for the Packers. Joe Alt was available at pick 25. Is this just an anomaly or did something come out about Alt. I don't give much stock into these simulators, but to have him drop to Pick # 25 is just weird.

I took him.

[SudsMcBucky]

Question for all the Draft Gurus in here:

I just did one of these NFL Mock Draft simulators, picking for the Packers. Joe Alt was available at pick 25. Is this just an anomaly or did something come out about Alt. I don't give much stock into these simulators, but to have him drop to Pick # 25 is just weird.

I took him.

I just ran 3 mocks through the 3 different simulators I play with and not one of them had him falling outside of pick 8.

[run pMc]

Some of the mock simulations produce weird results. I've had Drake Maye fall to me, that's just not realistic. At that point I just restart it and hope for something more likely. Reason being, if he's there in a mock someone else isn't, and we all know Maye will be gone by 25.

Alt will be gone by 25 too. He's basically OL1 and this draft has about 7 or 8 OL who could go R1. 24 teams aren't passing on him.

These are simulations after all, and who knows what kind of randomness factor they are building in. (Artificial intelligence indeed.) Gute will not draft the way I would but as a thought exercise it's amusing.

[Fritz]

I wish I knew Mims because his physique is ridiculous. He might be the best OT in the game by 2025 or he might be out of the game buy 2026. Given his natural traits he should be projected in the top 5. The fact that he isn't scares the hell out of me. Its all going to come down to how bad he wants to be great. Albert Haynesworth was unblockable when he felt like it...the problem was he didn't care.

Sounds like a risk. That's probably the kind of guy you'd want to bring in for a visit, get a bead on who he is as a person.

[run pMc]

Three linebackers
Three safeties
Two running backs
Three offensive linemen

Anybody do that make draft yet?

How about this? Got a little crazy with trades lol
Green Bay Receives:
2024: Round 2, Pick 39
2024: Round 3, Pick 65
Carolina Receives:
2024: Round 1, Pick 25
Green Bay Receives:
2024: Round 2, Pick 60
2024: Round 4, Pick 133
Buffalo Receives:
2024: Round 2, Pick 58
Green Bay Receives:
2024: Round 2, Pick 64
2024: Round 4, Pick 131
Kansas City Receives:
2024: Round 2, Pick 60
Green Bay Receives:
2024: Round 3, Pick 93
2024: Round 4, Pick 113
Baltimore Receives:
2024: Round 3, Pick 91
2024: Round 4, Pick 133

Resulting picks:
39 Tyler Nubin S | Minnesota
41 Edgerrin Cooper LB |Texas A&M
64 Trey Benson RB | Florida State
65 Javon Bullard S | Georgia
88 Adisa Isaac EDGE | Penn State
93 Cedric Gray LB | North Carolina
113 Javon Foster OT | Missouri
126 Zak Zinter IOL | Michigan
131 Beaux Limmer IOL | Arkansas
169 Edefuan Ulofoshio LB | Washington
202 Khristian Boyd DL | Northern Iowa
219 Josh Proctor S | Ohio State
245 Tyrone Tracy Jr. RB | Purdue
255 Willie Drew CB | Virginia State

Nubin is the best safety in the class although he recently had the Bahktiari meniscus surgery done so eek. Getting him early R2 still seemed like a good get, adding the best LB in Cooper, plus Bullard (who might turn out better than Nubin) is good haul.
Trey Benson is a 6-1 RB with good production, not too much mileage and runs a 4.39 40.
I haven't even watched Adisa Issac but I've heard he's an athletic marvel and they need another EDGE with Enagbare on the PUP and Preston aging.
Cedric Grey and Ulofoshio are some of the better LB prospects in a weak class who will push McDuffie and Eric Wilson (assuming they resign him) for playing time. Rookie LBs usually stink and many take 3 years to figure it out, but they need bodies.
Between the LBs are some developmental OL guys - Foster can play swing tackle, they brought Zinter in for a top 30 visit, and Limmer isn't my favorite but he can play C and has some traits that might work out. He'd at least push Myers for competition. All have at least some multiple position versatility.

the last 4 picks are dart throws -
Boyd is a decent athlete with good PFF scores, last year they struck gold with a PFF darling in Karl Brooks.
Proctor had some exposure to Hafley when both were at OSU,
Tracy Jr. isn't my cup of tea but PFF loves him and he is a converted WR with good speed so he could be a change of pace back or just PS depth.
Hadn't taken a corner and the Drew kid has good size and speed so why not.

There ya have it. I HIGHLY doubt this happens - this is a lot of trading and picks for one thing. When the mock sims start throwing trade offers at me and there are a few players who I like I turn into Ted and trade down.
I don't think there are a lot of high end prospects at most positions, but I do think there is good depth and I'm thinking of the whole "competition" thing that was a big mantra last season. I think it will remain that way this year with a young team that can't get full of itself and rest on last year's laurels.

[Deputy Nutz]

I have put about a 45 minutes into watching film on this year's linebacker class, and I think in any other year none of these guys would be more than a 3rd pick. Maybe what my expectations are bullshit.

[Joemailman]

I have put about a 45 minutes into watching film on this year's linebacker class, and I think in any other year none of these guys would be more than a 3rd pick. Maybe what my expectations are bullshit.

May be also true at safety.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GJI1Do6XUAAeTAZ?format=jpg&name=small

[Frozen Tundra]

I have put about a 45 minutes into watching film on this year's linebacker class, and I think in any other year none of these guys would be more than a 3rd pick. Maybe what my expectations are bullshit.

2024 is a bad year to go into the draft needing LB, because if you have to draft one this year, you're spending more than you would other years. The guy you draft in the 3rd may be a guy you'd have gotten in the 4th or even 5th the year before or after, but if you have a hole that needs filling, you bite the bullet and spend it. I'm still hoping we find something useful in free agency.

[red]

May be also true at safety.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GJI1Do6XUAAeTAZ?format=jpg&name=small
yikes

so theres no way we draft that guy

[Joemailman]

yikes

so theres no way we draft that guy

He's coming off meniscus surgery. I wonder if he tried to work out too early.

[run pMc]

yikes

so theres no way we draft that guy

Wow... yeah. That's... not good. Gute doesn't keep many sub 5 RAS guys on the roster, and he's not going to draft one high. You'd hope that he's not fully recovered from the knee surgery.

Nutz - you're not wrong about the LBs. Even the highly touted ones have some pretty meh or even bad moments if you watch the full game vs. a highlight video.

[Fritz]

2024 is a bad year to go into the draft needing LB, because if you have to draft one this year, you're spending more than you would other years. The guy you draft in the 3rd may be a guy you'd have gotten in the 4th or even 5th the year before or after, but if you have a hole that needs filling, you bite the bullet and spend it. I'm still hoping we find something useful in free agency.

I tried this argument on a date once, and got punched in the face.

Maybe Guter will draft three safeties and three linebackers in rounds four through seven, and see how they shake out.

I did see they brought in a defensive lineman from OSU for a visit. I'm not against that - but in Hafley's defense, are there most often only two defensive linemen on the field at one time (not counting the EDGE guys who line up as DE's)?

If so - and I don't know enough to know - then they've already got Clark, Slaton, Brooks, and Wooden for two spots. Is that right?

[red]

I tried this argument on a date once, and got punched in the face.

Maybe Guter will draft three safeties and three linebackers in rounds four through seven, and see how they shake out.

I did see they brought in a defensive lineman from OSU for a visit. I'm not against that - but in Hafley's defense, are there most often only two defensive linemen on the field at one time (not counting the EDGE guys who line up as DE's)?

If so - and I don't know enough to know - then they've already got Clark, Slaton, Brooks, and Wooden for two spots. Is that right?

wyatt?

yeah, we have no need to draft a fatty for defense this year

i also think we're gonna be trading up this year. we have too many picks. maybe package the 2 second rounders to get another pick in the first

or trade one of the seconds for a first next year, if someone falls that someone else really wants.

kinda looks like this year doesn't offer a whole lot of quality players at positions we need. bad year to have so many picks

[red]

what exactly do we need at LB?

i'm guessing quay is still the MLB, is that still a sideline to sideline enforcer type like urlacher? or is it something different? or does he play one of the other two spots like WLB?

are weakside and strongside still a thing like they were when we last ran the 4-3? weakside = playmaker, strongside = thumper

or is that not a thing anymore,

what would the safety/LB hybrid play? is that the MLB?

what kind of player exactly do we need for those 2 spots?

[Joemailman]

I think Quay's natural position would be Will, but he might play Mike if they draft Edgerrin Cooper. As of now though, I think Quay would be Will and McDuffie would be Mike.

[red]

I think Quay's natural position would be Will, but he might play Mike if they draft Edgerrin Cooper. As of now though, I think Quay would be Will and McDuffie would be Mike.

ok, thats kinda what i was thinking. mcduffie was a beast i guess under halfass at BC

so that means we are looking for depth and a big slow thumper. so we really don't need to draft LB high IMO, thank god

[red]

i'm might be starting to like the idea of trading the 2 seconds for around #21, then double dipping at DB

dejean for the chance to move him to safety and someone like lassiter or kool aide

[Frozen Tundra]

what exactly do we need at LB?

i'm guessing quay is still the MLB, is that still a sideline to sideline enforcer type like urlacher? or is it something different? or does he play one of the other two spots like WLB?

are weakside and strongside still a thing like they were when we last ran the 4-3? weakside = playmaker, strongside = thumper

or is that not a thing anymore,

what would the safety/LB hybrid play? is that the MLB?

what kind of player exactly do we need for those 2 spots?

Hard to say for sure because we haven't seen his defense yet, but most people seem to think he's looking for LBs along the lines of San Francisco's group - think Warner, Greenlaw, and Al-Shaair before he left. And he's stated that he prizes Quay highly. So fast, aggressive, hard-hitting LBs, with a mix of coverage skills and run-stopping ability.

Pretty much the universal model for the ideal linebacker; I guess the "type" he wants is "best possible all-around LB he can get".

[Fritz]

Red, I don't see the value in trading up, as Green Bay's gonna need to draft about eight linebackers, six safeties, and four offensive linemen.

[bobblehead]

wyatt?

yeah, we have no need to draft a fatty for defense this year

i also think we're gonna be trading up this year. we have too many picks. maybe package the 2 second rounders to get another pick in the first

or trade one of the seconds for a first next year, if someone falls that someone else really wants.

kinda looks like this year doesn't offer a whole lot of quality players at positions we need. bad year to have so many picks

I disagree. This draft is so fat at OL that we could easily find value with all 3 of our top picks at OL alone. And lets be honest. We could replace 2 starters on the OL and improve them quite easily. We also could use some interior depth.

[bobblehead]

As for the LB's, I'm pretty sure Quay could play any of the spots, but they will use him at the Will because its the most prized position of the 3. McDuffie is harder to cast. He is a solid run defender, but that could land him at either sam or mike. I'm guessing mike because he knows the D and can make the calls. Also, a guy like Preston can probably man the sam. I don't see Preston as a DE in this defense, yet he is still on the roster so I think they have plans for him as a linebacker. He probably also could play weakside, but pretty sure that will be left for Quay. And I said last offseason they may start letting quay get after the QB, Parsons style. That will probably happen in this D on passing situations.

[red]

I disagree. This draft is so fat at OL that we could easily find value with all 3 of our top picks at OL alone. And lets be honest. We could replace 2 starters on the OL and improve them quite easily. We also could use some interior depth.

i thought about that, but we are so damn good at finding O-line in the mid to later rounds

imo, and its based on nothing, we have a better chance at finding a starter for the O-line in the mid rounds then we do any other position

[bobblehead]

i thought about that, but we are so damn good at finding O-line in the mid to later rounds

imo, and its based on nothing, we have a better chance at finding a starter for the O-line in the mid rounds then we do any other position

Not nothing, you are basing it on Gutes past several drafts. Its valid, but when you get a chance to turn your OL into the best in the NFL with 2 good picks and it also happens to be where the value is, you shouldn't pass on it because you might find some quality in round 5.

[Fritz]

Gotta agree with Bobble there. You don't want Guter to reach for a need when he's got a much higher-ranked prospect at a position of lesser-need-but-still-needed sitting right there. Do you want your first round pick to be a potential all pro at offensive line or a JAG at linebacker?

Obviously it's not that cut-and-dried, but you see the point.

[Fritz]

He's coming off meniscus surgery. I wonder if he tried to work out too early.

If that is the case, someone will get a steal if he drops to the third round. If it's not true, then that RAS is some serious suckage, right there. Not too far from my negative 4.23.

[Jaire]

My gut keeps telling me that Gute is going to draft Chop Robinson in R1. The Saleh defense uses smaller guys at end/edge than Pettine/Barry did, and he fits the mold. Enagbare will start the year on the PUP, Preston is getting old and pricey, and Brenton Cox got no meaningful snaps.
I'd prefer Dejean if he's there, but I could absolutely see them taking a pass rusher.

I'd love this... Can't have enough edge in any defense, but esp Hafley's.... Should be an interesting draft: what's avaliable/where Gute goes with it. Having that many picks, really allows GUte to do whatever he wants.

[Bretsky]

I would take the Chopper in a second

I think he'll be gone by the time GB picks though

[KYPack]

I would take the Chopper in a second

I think he'll be gone by the time GB picks though

Think he's worth a move up to get him?

Edge pressure will be pure gold to Hafley

[Frozen Tundra]

Think he's worth a move up to get him?

Edge pressure will be pure gold to Hafley

With 11 picks, this may be a year where that's not an unreasonable possibility. I'll bet he's at the top of Hafley's list, now that we've got McKinney onboard. We could package #25 with either #88 or #91 and be elgible to move up to #19 or #20, and that might make the difference. It seems likely we'd be adding quite a bit of value with that move.

If they do, I'm good with it. I'm sure they wouldn't do it unless they'd thoroughly done their homework and there was something about him that totally rocked their world, and they certainly know a hell of a lot more about these guys than I do.

[sharpe1027]

Think he's worth a move up to get him?

Edge pressure will be pure gold to Hafley

I voted for him in the poll, but I don't think they move up for him. He's pretty one dimensional as a speed rusher.

[run pMc]

I would not trade up for Chop. He might not be everyone's cup of tea and is in the 20-40 pick range from what I've seen. He's explosive but he doesn't have the sack production. I think anyone taking him top 15 is reaching, especially when there are so many good OL in this draft and so many JAG OL in the league.

I don't think Gute is going to trade up in this draft, if he makes any trades, I actually think it will be for a player... i.e., trade a R4 pick for a LB who can slide right in as a starter. The FA pickings are not good and this isn't a great LB draft class.

If Quay is going to play the Will, it would be strange to pick Edgerrin Cooper (who would also be a Will). I'm curious to see who the LBs and the safety next to McKinney are, as well as how they are used.

[bobblehead]

Off ball LB are kind of like RBs. Taking one in the first should be the exception, never the rule. You can find the draft peppered with serviceable S/M off ball LBs. You stumble into a guy with good instincts (equivalent to RB vision) and you have yourself a good 2 down LB.

Given the depth of CB and OT I can't imagine taking anything else at 25 to be honest (depth coupled with our needs). Thus, I'm sure Gutes will draft a WR.

[Joemailman]

Off ball LB are kind of like RBs. Taking one in the first should be the exception, never the rule. You can find the draft peppered with serviceable S/M off ball LBs. You stumble into a guy with good instincts (equivalent to RB vision) and you have yourself a good 2 down LB.

Given the depth of CB and OT I can't imagine taking anything else at 25 to be honest (depth coupled with our needs). Thus, I'm sure Gutes will draft a WR.

I've done some interactive mocks lately where DeJean is available at 25, Barton at 41, and Edgerrin Cooper at 58. Don't know if that's realistic, but I'd be pretty happy.

[Joemailman]

Dov Kleiman
@NFL_DovKleiman

Wow: The belief amongst executives in the NFL who know #Commanders GM Adam Peters is that he will draft J.J. McCarthy at #2 overall.


If true, this would open things up for the Vikings to trade up to 5 and take Daniels or Maye.

[run pMc]

Dov Kleiman
@NFL_DovKleiman

Wow: The belief amongst executives in the NFL who know #Commanders GM Adam Peters is that he will draft J.J. McCarthy at #2 overall.


If true, this would open things up for the Vikings to trade up to 5 and take Daniels or Maye.

I find it hard to believe much Dov says is true, until it's confirmed elsewhere. Also, this smells to me like prime pre-draft cow manure packaged up and whispered along as rumor to media.
There's no way you take McCarthy over Maye unless your personnel department has been heavily drinking for 72 hours. Maye is a better prospect by a not-small margin.

Also, if WFT takes McCarthy and MIN somehow trades up to draft Maye, look out. I have some faith that CHI will screw up Caleb, but a half competent team could develop Maye into a franchise QB. I think McCarthy is ok but I also think he could easily get overdrafted.
Presumably if WFT take McCarthy then Eliot Wolf will sprint the Maye card up to the podium for NE. All the same, I don't believe any rumors right now... everyone is lying why they open their mouths.

[run pMc]

I've done some interactive mocks lately where DeJean is available at 25, Barton at 41, and Edgerrin Cooper at 58. Don't know if that's realistic, but I'd be pretty happy.

Same. I think Barton is a good player who had the athleticism and versatility GB likes. DeJean is good, but is he a CB or a S? He's never played S so you probably have to give him a redshirt year to learn that, I'm not sure Gute does that. Maybe Hafley is a teaching savant and DeJean is a quick study.

[red]

Dov Kleiman
@NFL_DovKleiman

Wow: The belief amongst executives in the NFL who know #Commanders GM Adam Peters is that he will draft J.J. McCarthy at #2 overall.


If true, this would open things up for the Vikings to trade up to 5 and take Daniels or Maye.

i thought JJ WAS the vikings target and the guy they fell in love with?

[red]

DeJean is good, but is he a CB or a S?

well, i believe the new scheme needs a safety that can play slot corner a lot of the time

so this is a perfect problem for him to have

and he has starting experience at both CB and as a lb/safety hybrid (exactly what we need) . so is he a cb or s? he's both, and excelled at both

[run pMc]

well, i believe the new scheme needs a safety that can play slot corner a lot of the time
So you don't think they'll play Jaire and Stokes outside and Nixon and Valentine inside when they need 4 corners? I agree with if you if they want to play a hybrid guy. I suppose it depends on injuries and the situation (down & distance).

They just paid Nixon $6M to play slot, but if a team goes 4 or 5 wide I see what you mean. Everything I've heard of DeJean at safety is that it's a projection though, hence my skepticism. I'm not sure they take a CB before late R3 based on all the bodies they have, but a trade could change that.

[smuggler]

Can't really trust the grapevine stuff at 2 overall. It's a great time for a smokescreen or two.

[Fritz]

Agree, Smuggs. Does anyone really think that JJ McCarthy is truly the second-best player in this draft? Even at the QB position?

[red]

Agree, Smuggs. Does anyone really think that JJ McCarthy is truly the second-best player in this draft? Even at the QB position?

nope, but i don't think any of the QBs are really the best players in the draft

if this was 20 years ago, you probably wouldn't see any of these QBs goin gin the first round

teams just don't learn, thats why the bad ones keep staying bad. they keep overdrafting the hell out of these QB that have no place in the first round

[red]

first round QB's. good or shit?

2023 (too soon really, but whatever)

young #1- shit
stroud-#2- good
richardson #4- incomplete, too broken

2022
picket #20- shit, already traded

2021 (perfect example of over drafting QBs)
lawrence #1- not shit
zach wilson #2- LOLOLOLOL
trey lance #3- somehow worse then fucking wilson
fields #11- as shitty as his team was, traded
mac jones #15- shit, already traded


2020 (the one good year)

burrow #1- good
tua #5- not bad
herbert #6- just fine
love #26 - :)

[red]

2019

Kyler murray #1- coach killer? pretty blah
daniel jones #6- horrid
dwayne haskins #15- really bad then hit by dump truck while walking on highway

2018

mayfield #1 - ok-ish? pretty average starting QB for the first overall pick, but still a starter
sam darnold #3- the last "can't miss superstar" QB from USC. shit
josh allen #7- HIT, A FUCKING HIT!!!!!!!
josh rosen #10- complete shitshow
lamar jackson #32- 2 time MVP with the last pick in the 1st

2017

mitchy turbo #2- another shit player on a shitty team
mahomes #10- he's ok
watson #12- was good, now bad. he's gotta pay for it.

2016
goff #1- just ok, nothing special, but not horrible. his first team didn't want him
carson wentz #2- eh, not great, not completely shit. not very good for the #2 overall

2015
winston #1- nope, that didnt work
Marcus Mariota #2- this one didn't either

2014

bortles #3- not even close
johnny football #22- wow, just no
bridgewater #32- might have been not shit if it wasn't for the injury. incomplete

[red]

thats 16 shit players

8 i would say are good (4 came in 2020)

6 that were - eh

2 that were injured

and somehow my counts off, you assholes figure it out

[KYPack]

Great post Red. I've been thinking about this factor and how it affects QB's. The old rule of thumb is that about 40% of #1 picks become good starters. This factor is even worse when it comes to QB's. 70% of no 1 QB's aren't worth the powder to blow them to hell.

It's even a greater risk when you consider all the value of those high picks. Those high busts are a double whammy. You get nothing for the selection and your team is divided and in a worse boat than before the draft. Hell, the Jones pick cost one of the all time great coaches to lose his job! (Not that there's anything wrong with that!)

You had a vintage year (2020) followed by a death year (2021)

No rhyme or reason there.

[MadScientist]

You had a vintage year (2020) followed by a death year (2021)

No rhyme or reason there.
There is rhyme and reason for 2021 being a bad year. Given how a lot of players stayed an extra year, and scouting was limited in the previous year, it was a terribledraft all around. I don't know if any of the 2020 hits came out earlier because of the pandemic, but 4 good QB's in the first round is a lucky draft regardless.

[KYPack]

There is rhyme and reason for 2021 being a bad year. Given how a lot of players stayed an extra year, and scouting was limited in the previous year, it was a terribledraft all around. I don't know if any of the 2020 hits came out earlier because of the pandemic, but 4 good QB's in the first round is a lucky draft regardless.

Yer right. That is a reason, Mad. Now what's the rhyme?

[run pMc]

QBs get overdrafted because of their importance in the game and potential value if you hit on one.

Draft success in the aggregate is basically a coin flip, having more/higher picks increases your odds slightly.

I'd also say that the team a player lands on matters a lot.
- If they have a garbage organization and coaching staff, they aren't going to develop. (Justin Fields)
- If they get shoved on the field as a Day 1 starter before they are ready with a leaky OL, they are going to fail. (Zach Wilson)
- If you trade away your best WR, they will struggle. (Bryce Young)

Granted, those QB examples were unlikely to beat the odds because of other shortcomings, but the situation they entered certainly did them no favors.

Jordan Love had time to develop with a patient organization, had a halfway decent OL, and while the receivers were a wildcard, by end of year they had gelled. The big assumption was he'd have a good running game with Jones/Dillon and the defense would hold up, but by midseason things started to trend up.

FWIW I think not having a single, psycho owner helps GB a lot -- the fans and the owner often want the shiny new QB to play right away when they are still learning the playbook. Meanwhile the coach and GM are trying to keep their job. There have been a lot of good QB prospects ruined by being drafted into bad environments.

[Frozen Tundra]

FWIW I think not having a single, psycho owner helps GB a lot -- the fans and the owner often want the shiny new QB to play right away when they are still learning the playbook. Meanwhile the coach and GM are trying to keep their job. There have been a lot of good QB prospects ruined by being drafted into bad environments.

I've often wondered what kind of player Fields might have become if he'd been drafted by Green Bay rather than the Bears. He seemed to have all the skills, but never had the time or the coaching he needed.

[Fritz]

QBs get overdrafted because of their importance in the game and potential value if you hit on one.

Draft success in the aggregate is basically a coin flip, having more/higher picks increases your odds slightly.

I'd also say that the team a player lands on matters a lot.
- If they have a garbage organization and coaching staff, they aren't going to develop. (Justin Fields)
- If they get shoved on the field as a Day 1 starter before they are ready with a leaky OL, they are going to fail. (Zach Wilson)
- If you trade away your best WR, they will struggle. (Bryce Young)

Granted, those QB examples were unlikely to beat the odds because of other shortcomings, but the situation they entered certainly did them no favors.

Jordan Love had time to develop with a patient organization, had a halfway decent OL, and while the receivers were a wildcard, by end of year they had gelled. The big assumption was he'd have a good running game with Jones/Dillon and the defense would hold up, but by midseason things started to trend up.

FWIW I think not having a single, psycho owner helps GB a lot -- the fans and the owner often want the shiny new QB to play right away when they are still learning the playbook. Meanwhile the coach and GM are trying to keep their job. There have been a lot of good QB prospects ruined by being drafted into bad environments.

Far better to have multiple psycho owners, as Green Bay does.

Boy, that's a hell of a list Red put together. I wonder what you'd come up with if you put together a similar list of, say, top-ten picks who were not QB's in the years Red covered. Would you have fewer busts?

[Joemailman]

Dane Brugler
@dpbrugler

Updated Pro Day for #Iowa DB Cooper DeJean:

Fully cleared and plans to work out for NFL teams on Monday, April 8

[texaspackerbacker]

Will he eclipse his earlier numbers?

[Joemailman]

Will he eclipse his earlier numbers?

He didn't work out at Iowa's Pro Day.

[Joemailman]

25: R1 P25 DL Jer'Zhan Newton - Illinois
41: R2 P9 C Graham Barton - Duke
57: R2 P25 LB Edgerrin Cooper - Texas A&M
88: R3 P24 S Jaden Hicks - Washington State
91: R3 P27 S Javon Bullard - Georgia
125: R4 P25 RB Dylan Laube - New Hampshire
169: R5 P34 OT Brandon Coleman - TCU
201: R6 P25 WR Luke McCaffery - Rice
219: R6 P43 G Delmar Glaze - Maryland
245: R7 P25 CB Johnny Dixon - Penn State
255: R7 P35 EDGE Brennan Jackson - Washington State

[Anti-Polar Bear]

P-Ma has been “ok.” lol

[smuggler]

Bortles and Wentz were weird cases.

Bortles just fell apart for seemingly no reason, and Wentz was a borderline MVP before destroying his knee and then becoming pretty bad.

Unlike some of the others, they and D Watson, actually justified their draft position, imo, they just didn't pan out.

[Joemailman]

Impressive, if incomplete Pro Day.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GJxR8RyXoAIbwOK?format=jpg&name=small

[bobblehead]

QBs get overdrafted because of their importance in the game and potential value if you hit on one.

Draft success in the aggregate is basically a coin flip, having more/higher picks increases your odds slightly.

I'd also say that the team a player lands on matters a lot.
- If they have a garbage organization and coaching staff, they aren't going to develop. (Justin Fields)
- If they get shoved on the field as a Day 1 starter before they are ready with a leaky OL, they are going to fail. (Zach Wilson)
- If you trade away your best WR, they will struggle. (Bryce Young)

Granted, those QB examples were unlikely to beat the odds because of other shortcomings, but the situation they entered certainly did them no favors.

Jordan Love had time to develop with a patient organization, had a halfway decent OL, and while the receivers were a wildcard, by end of year they had gelled. The big assumption was he'd have a good running game with Jones/Dillon and the defense would hold up, but by midseason things started to trend up.

FWIW I think not having a single, psycho owner helps GB a lot -- the fans and the owner often want the shiny new QB to play right away when they are still learning the playbook. Meanwhile the coach and GM are trying to keep their job. There have been a lot of good QB prospects ruined by being drafted into bad environments.

First off, props to red on a nice well researched post.

Second of all, props to run for the analysis.

Third, I've been saying for a long time that paying a mediocre QB Maholmes money is idiocy. Run is correct here. The organization, the team around them, the systems run. Bortles looked really good for a minute when he had a good running game and a well designed offense, but then his development hit the Nathaniel Hackett wall. There are a few Unicorns that need to be paid. I suspect Love is no better than a lot of middling QBs, but we have all the things mentioned to make him successful. Same with Brock Purdy. I still would like to see a team simply refuse to pay a QB, recycle guys wo are "ok", and keep a really good roster build. Sign Flacco as the backup and when Tannehill demands to get paid move Flacco in and sign Wentz as the backup. When Flacco demands to get paid move Wentz in (who now has a year in the system) and sign Daniel Jones. On and on it could go. The NFL has 3-5 QBs worthy of the money they get. All the rest is bullshit. Guys look great when everyone around them is good. They look bad when everyone around them sucks. Now, if my latest crush plays well and will take $25 mil instead of demading 45 maybe I keep him.

[bobblehead]

when we signed Hackett I bitched loudly on this forum. Can we all agree at this point that he destroys QBs careers?? Lets be honest, he was a placeholder OC first year in Jax and both years here. But he has had a hand in Bortles demise, Rodgers deciding he was a GM, Russel Wilsons demise and maybe threw gas on a burning Zack Wilson.

[run pMc]

I think Nathaniel Hackett is an offensive coordinator who should probably be an excellent position coach. If he has good offensive skill players they can make him look good, and he might rise to the level of 'ok' as an OC, but I don't think he's much above that.
He's over his head as a head coach.

I also think having the Hackett last name and connections through his dad probably got him a leg up. Nepotism runs rampant in the NFL.

Does he have a reputation for developing players? If he does I don't know about it.

[run pMc]

Impressive, if incomplete Pro Day.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GJxR8RyXoAIbwOK?format=jpg&name=small

Barton screams Packer player. Smart, athletic, good in pass pro, can play multiple spots on the OL. I won't be shocked if they take him at 25 or 41.
(25's a bit rich for me, but he'd be instant competition and probably start over Rhyan or Myers)

[Joemailman]

Barton screams Packer player. Smart, athletic, good in pass pro, can play multiple spots on the OL. I won't be shocked if they take him at 25 or 41.
(25's a bit rich for me, but he'd be instant competition and probably start over Rhyan or Myers)

I think taking Barton at 41 has become a pipedream. Not even a guarantee he'll be there at 25. Kiper and Jeremiah both have Dolphins taking him at 21 in their latest mocks.

[Joemailman]

Blake Watson is an interesting Day 3 prospect at RB.

SCOUTING REPORT: STRENGTHS
Flashes initial burst and good lateral quickness to sidestep defenders or bounce runs outside with very good foot quickness. Displays very good feel as an inside and outside runner with above average vision to make sharp cuts - good patience· and footwork to pick through defenses.
An instinctive runner, Watson has a knack for setting up defenders and making people miss in space. He’s at his best in space and on the perimeter, where he shows the balance and acceleration, plus pure speed, to make a move and then take off.
Watson is an electrifying player, one of college football’s best playmakers in space
His competitiveness and knack for high-pointing the ball allow him to play bigger than his size.
Watson finishes runs well and flashes the ability to get small and squeeze through traffic.
He’s a natural pass catcher, at his best pulling in swing passes and heading upfield. He’s a natural in the screen game as well. His hands are good enough that he can line up in the slot.


SCOUTING REPORT: WEAKNESSES
Watson seems comfortable in traffic to the point where Watson doesn’t make the effort to create separation.
Watson isn’t going to overwhelm opposing defensive backs with speed and athleticism.
Has a lean frame and lacks ideal bulk or muscle for the position. Doesn't have great strength, lacking a power element to his game to break many tackles.

Listed at 5-9, 189 pounds with 4.5 40. Ran reported 4.3 at Pro Day


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_W2UIzRv9M0&t=1s

[bobblehead]

Blake Watson is an interesting Day 3 prospect at RB.

SCOUTING REPORT: STRENGTHS
Flashes initial burst and good lateral quickness to sidestep defenders or bounce runs outside with very good foot quickness. Displays very good feel as an inside and outside runner with above average vision to make sharp cuts - good patience· and footwork to pick through defenses.
An instinctive runner, Watson has a knack for setting up defenders and making people miss in space. He’s at his best in space and on the perimeter, where he shows the balance and acceleration, plus pure speed, to make a move and then take off.
Watson is an electrifying player, one of college football’s best playmakers in space
His competitiveness and knack for high-pointing the ball allow him to play bigger than his size.
Watson finishes runs well and flashes the ability to get small and squeeze through traffic.
He’s a natural pass catcher, at his best pulling in swing passes and heading upfield. He’s a natural in the screen game as well. His hands are good enough that he can line up in the slot.


SCOUTING REPORT: WEAKNESSES
Watson seems comfortable in traffic to the point where Watson doesn’t make the effort to create separation.
Watson isn’t going to overwhelm opposing defensive backs with speed and athleticism.
Has a lean frame and lacks ideal bulk or muscle for the position. Doesn't have great strength, lacking a power element to his game to break many tackles.

Listed at 5-9, 189 pounds with 4.5 40. Ran reported 4.3 at Pro Day


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_W2UIzRv9M0&t=1s

I watched about 3 minutes, and I really liked it. He wasn't even on my radar which goes to the point I always make about finding good RBs at all points of the draft. This line "Watson seems comfortable in traffic to the point where Watson doesn’t make the effort to create separation." was interesting to me. What I saw was a guy with phenomenal vision. He just seems to know which way to cut to avoid the bulk of defenders. When the hole was right there he shot through it, but when it wasn't he found the crease. Very Jones like.

[run pMc]

I like Watson as a late Day3/UDFA type. He has good speed on film and his vision isn't bad. Older prospect and not very big but worth a flier on. I think they will look for a different body type with Jacobs, Dillon, and Wilson on the roster at RB already and he fits that.

As for Barton, he might be gone by 21 but a lot of teams might see that as rich for an interior OL. Not many get taken before late R1. He doesn't have the length teams look for to play T, so you're going to let him drop a little bit before taking him in favor of a "premium" position.
Same thing with JPJ. I don't see either Barton or Powers-Johnson going before 20 because of position.

The counter argument of course is to look at what JRJ and Robert Hunt got in FA and think the IOL FA market is exploding even for non-elite players.

Don't know that JPJ or Barton is going to pan out, but I think if you are certain you are getting an All-Pro level player at IOL you take them where you can get them.

[Fritz]

I like Watson as a late Day3/UDFA type. He has good speed on film and his vision isn't bad. Older prospect and not very big but worth a flier on. I think they will look for a different body type with Jacobs, Dillon, and Wilson on the roster at RB already and he fits that.

As for Barton, he might be gone by 21 but a lot of teams might see that as rich for an interior OL. Not many get taken before late R1. He doesn't have the length teams look for to play T, so you're going to let him drop a little bit before taking him in favor of a "premium" position.
Same thing with JPJ. I don't see either Barton or Powers-Johnson going before 20 because of position.

The counter argument of course is to look at what JRJ and Robert Hunt got in FA and think the IOL FA market is exploding even for non-elite players.

Don't know that JPJ or Barton is going to pan out, but I think if you are certain you are getting an All-Pro level player at IOL you take them where you can get them.

Man, that Watson kid can find the creases. You gotta love that.

[ThunderDan]

I like Watson as a late Day3/UDFA type. He has good speed on film and his vision isn't bad. Older prospect and not very big but worth a flier on. I think they will look for a different body type with Jacobs, Dillon, and Wilson on the roster at RB already and he fits that.

As for Barton, he might be gone by 21 but a lot of teams might see that as rich for an interior OL. Not many get taken before late R1. He doesn't have the length teams look for to play T, so you're going to let him drop a little bit before taking him in favor of a "premium" position.
Same thing with JPJ. I don't see either Barton or Powers-Johnson going before 20 because of position.

The counter argument of course is to look at what JRJ and Robert Hunt got in FA and think the IOL FA market is exploding even for non-elite players.

Don't know that JPJ or Barton is going to pan out, but I think if you are certain you are getting an All-Pro level player at IOL you take them where you can get them.

I would grab an OT in round 1 if one is available. I would look at Beaux Limmer from Arkansas later in the draft for C competition.

[bobblehead]

I started thinking about the idea that Gutes is so adept at finding monster awesome OL talent in the middle rounds that we shouldn't draft an OT in the 1st. Its not actually based on the subjective breakdown of his drafts, and his record definitely isn't so stellar that we should gamble that he can find us a new RG and hopefully a new C in the same draft. Lets break it down.

2018 Cole Madison - out of football
2019 Elgton Jenkins - Stud...but picked in the 2nd.
2020 Jon Runyan - Serviceable, got a nice 2nd contract, but a guy we all wanted replaced
Jake Hansen - If he isn't gone, he should be
Simon Stepaniak - out of football
2021 Josh Myers - Serviceable, but a 2nd round pick
Royce Newman - Thankfully gone
Cole Van Lanen - Traded for a late pick
2022 Sean Rhyan - Hope he is gone
Zack Tom - Stud
Rasheed Walker - Stud in the making imo, but its not a lock yet.

Does this inspire you to be sure we can find a new RG by throwing a bunch of day 3 picks at the problem?? Other than landing Tom and Walker in 2022 his day 3 picks are a disaster.

I'm more convinced than ever that, given the OL depth in this draft, we should probably land 2 in our first 3 picks.

*I went off the top of my head for where guys are now. If I were wrong about someone being out of the game or technically still on the roster, I stand by the position of "should be what I said"

[run pMc]

Jake Hanson is on the NYJ roster I believe.
Royce Newman is still on GB's roster - it's his last year of his rookie contract.
I don't hope Rhyan is gone; I actually hope he makes a leap in his play so he can be reliable in pass protection. He's not there yet. Because of that, I think they need to bring in competition for Rhyan (and Myers, who is also on the last year of his contract) and a swing tackle for depth.

Madison was a mental health situation, his college buddy killed himself.
Stepaniak was a shame; dude was monstrously strong (37 reps at the combine with a torn ACL) but his knee didn't fully recover so he retired. Both were Day 3 fliers (IIRC Madison was R5, Stepaniak R6).

This year's draft is very deep at OL, I think they can and will draft several players who should be able to either push for time or develop into eventual starters if not quality depth. I think they will address OL before Day 3, but it wouldn't shock me if they took an OL each day of the draft.

Given their preferences for taking high RAS players at "premium" positions and from Power 5 schools, an OT is not out of the question in R1.

[pittstang5]

I'm hoping the Royce Newman experiment is over after the draft. How he made last years roster is beyond me. He's as useful as a cock flavored lollipop.

Gutey is gonna draft, IMO, at a minimum, 2 O-lineman in this years draft; Most likely a Swiss Army knife interior guy and a swing tackle or someone to compete with Walker. Tom is fine at RT - Let him stay there. Walker could be replaced with a higher draft pick LT and become a swing tackle backup.

[bobblehead]

Jake Hanson is on the NYJ roster I believe.
Royce Newman is still on GB's roster - it's his last year of his rookie contract.
I don't hope Rhyan is gone; I actually hope he makes a leap in his play so he can be reliable in pass protection. He's not there yet. Because of that, I think they need to bring in competition for Rhyan (and Myers, who is also on the last year of his contract) and a swing tackle for depth.

Madison was a mental health situation, his college buddy killed himself.
Stepaniak was a shame; dude was monstrously strong (37 reps at the combine with a torn ACL) but his knee didn't fully recover so he retired. Both were Day 3 fliers (IIRC Madison was R5, Stepaniak R6).

This year's draft is very deep at OL, I think they can and will draft several players who should be able to either push for time or develop into eventual starters if not quality depth. I think they will address OL before Day 3, but it wouldn't shock me if they took an OL each day of the draft.

Given their preferences for taking high RAS players at "premium" positions and from Power 5 schools, an OT is not out of the question in R1.

Newman was so bad last year he needs to be replaced. Rhyan hasn't really shown me much to this point and I have no confidence in said jump. My point stands that people are giving Gutes accolades based off Tom and Walker both breaking out last year. He really isn't landing pro bowlers in rounds 3-7. Given the depth of this draft our 1st round pick really should be CB or OT, most likely OT. And honestly I would be thrilled if we took another one at pick 41 (I think is the pick). We have 3 studs. Lock down the other 2 positions and we are set for a decade with probably the best OL in football. The game is won in the trenches. Then with our other 2/3 round picks we can look at other areas of need, while still focusing on BPA. The BPA at 1 will almost certainly be a tackle or CB.

[run pMc]

Newman was so bad last year he needs to be replaced. Rhyan hasn't really shown me much to this point and I have no confidence in said jump. My point stands that people are giving Gutes accolades based off Tom and Walker both breaking out last year. He really isn't landing pro bowlers in rounds 3-7. Given the depth of this draft our 1st round pick really should be CB or OT, most likely OT. And honestly I would be thrilled if we took another one at pick 41 (I think is the pick). We have 3 studs. Lock down the other 2 positions and we are set for a decade with probably the best OL in football. The game is won in the trenches. Then with our other 2/3 round picks we can look at other areas of need, while still focusing on BPA. The BPA at 1 will almost certainly be a tackle or CB.

I don't disagree with you, but I also think that his odds on hitting big are low when you have Jenkins, Myers and Rhyan as the only non-Day 3 picks. The accolades likely come from finding his starting tackles in Day 3 (Tom in R4, Walker in R7) -- that is almost unheard of considering most starting OTs are early picks if not R1 picks. The fact that they got as many starts from a R6 pick like JRJ is pretty good value. Newman looked like he was going to be ok based on his rookie year but has not done well since.

I don't think Gute has been amazing at drafting OL or anything but he's gotten pretty good value from some of his picks. Given the quality at OL in this draft class and their current roster/depth chart, I expect them to lean heavily into that OL draft class with their picks.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

The Packers are set to pick where in the 1st round? 25th?

That’s Sherrod, Bulaga, Verbra, Michels, Cletidus, Datone Jones territories. Hell, name one fat Yokozuna the Packers drafted anywhere in the first round,1992-onwards, who turned out to be a bona fide All-Pro in the Green and Mustard Yellow.

Clifton and Iranian Stallion rank 1-2 as the best tackles to don the Green and Mustard Yellow, 1992-onwards, and they weren’t 1st rounders. Harrell was a bust. Raji was a tease who quit on the Packers.

As president of the National Organization of Fans Against Tubbiness in Sports - NO’FATS - trust me when I say this: drafting Yokozunas in the first round is wasteful.

[Fosco33]

The Packers are set to pick where in the 1st round? 25th?

That’s Sherrod, Bulaga, Verbra, Michels, Cletidus, Datone Jones territories. Hell, name one fat Yokozuna the Packers drafted anywhere in the first round,1992-onwards, who turned out to be a bona fide All-Pro in the Green and Mustard Yellow.

Clifton and Iranian Stallion rank 1-2 as the best tackles to don the Green and Mustard Yellow, 1992-onwards, and they weren’t 1st rounders. Harrell was a bust. Raji was a tease who quit on the Packers.

As president of the National Organization of Fans Against Tubbiness in Sports - NO’FATS - trust me when I say this: drafting Yokozunas in the first round is wasteful.

From a Steelers article in 2019 assessing lineman, all pro and pro bowlers along with draft position.

Tldr, if you need to find a top prospect OL - draft them early.

https://steelcityblitz.com/where-to-find-quality-offensive-linemen-in-the-draft/

[run pMc]

From a Steelers article in 2019 assessing lineman, all pro and pro bowlers along with draft position.

Tldr, if you need to find a top prospect OL - draft them early.

https://steelcityblitz.com/where-to-find-quality-offensive-linemen-in-the-draft/

Yeah there have been other studies on where All-Pros have been taken. (I think Andy Mertig on Pack-a-day podcast?)
Shocker - most of the time it's in the first round. That's where you'll find highest level of talent. That said, some positions have enough later round picks where a case can be made for drafting later.

Just going by process of elimination, it's unlikely Gute will take a CB in R1 because they have plenty signed and paid Nixon like a starter. RB? No prospects. Same for S and LB, unless they really reach. They aren't taking a QB. History plus the roster likely rules out WR and TE.

That pretty much leaves you with OL or DL (including EDGE).

[Anti-Polar Bear]

From a Steelers article in 2019 assessing lineman, all pro and pro bowlers along with draft position.

Tldr, if you need to find a top prospect OL - draft them early.

https://steelcityblitz.com/where-to-find-quality-offensive-linemen-in-the-draft/

To paraphrase Tex, who gives a fuck about the other teams? Ever since Wolf took over as GM, the Packers have been miserable at drafting Yokozunas in the first round - that is a fact.

Clifton, Tausher, Bak, Lang, Sitton, Wells, Linsley, hell, even the Fucking Center, among others, weren’t 1st rounders. If German Shepherd is smart, he’ll heed historical data, 1992-onwards, and refrain from drafting an offensive lineman in the first round in the upcoming draft. Avoid a defensive tackle like the plague, too.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Defensively, Pickett might’ve been the best 1st round Yokozuna to don the Green and Mustard Yellow, 1992-onwards, and he wasn’t even drafted by the Packers. Packers were fine and dandy with players like Brown, Dotson, Jenkins, Jolly and even the original Cletidus.

Sure, there are busts at every position. But the kung fu between a Butte and a, say, Hundley is more profound than that of a Cletidus and the rook who wore 94 for the Packers last season. In other words, the Packers should refrain from drafting offensive linemen and fat defensive linemen in the 1st round.

[bobblehead]

The Packers are set to pick where in the 1st round? 25th?

That’s Sherrod, Bulaga, Verbra, Michels, Cletidus, Datone Jones territories. Hell, name one fat Yokozuna the Packers drafted anywhere in the first round,1992-onwards, who turned out to be a bona fide All-Pro in the Green and Mustard Yellow.

Clifton and Iranian Stallion rank 1-2 as the best tackles to don the Green and Mustard Yellow, 1992-onwards, and they weren’t 1st rounders. Harrell was a bust. Raji was a tease who quit on the Packers.

As president of the National Organization of Fans Against Tubbiness in Sports - NO’FATS - trust me when I say this: drafting Yokozunas in the first round is wasteful.

Bulaga was good. And Sherrod would have panned out if they didn't ruin his leg. Verba had a long successful career. Clark is a really good pro. Jones and Michels were flops. Michels was drafted by wolf wasn't he??

[bobblehead]

To paraphrase Tex, who gives a fuck about the other teams? Ever since Wolf took over as GM, the Packers have been miserable at drafting Yokozunas in the first round - that is a fact.

Clifton, Tausher, Bak, Lang, Sitton, Wells, Linsley, hell, even the Fucking Center, among others, weren’t 1st rounders. If German Shepherd is smart, he’ll heed historical data, 1992-onwards, and refrain from drafting an offensive lineman in the first round in the upcoming draft. Avoid a defensive tackle like the plague, too.

Except they haven't been terrible. You have shown some success in other rounds. That doesn't make them terrible in the 1st. I broke down the ones you named. It wasn't a bad success rate.

[run pMc]

Michels and Verba were Wolf picks. So was Aaron Taylor, who was a decent player and a R1 pick as a Guard (!)

Best DL drafted since Wolf was probably Kenny Clark. You could make an argument for KGB, but if we're talking about R1 it's KC. The Packers' track record of drafting DL early has actually been... not good. The DL draft classes have not been great lately, although Karl Brooks could be a steal.

You can find value at any position later in the draft, but you still need high end talent to handle another team's high end talent.
If your OT is a late round guy with limited athleticism, there's a good chance he's going to give up one or two sacks in a game vs. Bosa, and that could change a game (or put your QB in the hospital).
You absolutely need to minimize that risk if you have a chance to.

I love some of the WRs in this class, but I just don't see them taking one in R1. It'll more likely be a Yokozuma, so get your crazy hate mail ready for Gute if you don't like it.

[texaspackerbacker]

Defensively, Pickett might’ve been the best 1st round Yokozuna to don the Green and Mustard Yellow, 1992-onwards, and he wasn’t even drafted by the Packers. Packers were fine and dandy with players like Brown, Dotson, Jenkins, Jolly and even the original Cletidus.

Sure, there are busts at every position. But the kung fu between a Butte and a, say, Hundley is more profound than that of a Cletidus and the rook who wore 94 for the Packers last season. In other words, the Packers should refrain from drafting offensive linemen and fat defensive linemen in the 1st round.

Pickett, of course, was a first round pick of somebody else, not the Packers. I'm generally in agreement with you about the "yokozuma" thing. I absolutely do not want a first round O Line pick, probably ever. D Line on the other hand is not a never-do thing in the first round, but for this year, we're pretty solid there already thanks to getting lucky with our 4th and 6th rounders last year. That plus my obvious disagreement with you about Kenny Clark. My position on the O Line, which many in here probably disagree with, you I'm not sure, APB, is that O Line is basically not very important. You can get by with mediocrity there if you have excellence at the "skilled" positions. That has been the situation with the Packers for decades, the quality level of the O Line and people like Bakhtiari being magnified way out of proportion in people's eyes by the quality of our QBs, RBs, and WRs. While really bad O Linemen like Marshall House can make a negative difference, merely mediocre O Linemen are plenty good enough, making it unnecessary and stupid IMO to draft an O Lineman in the first round.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Michels and Verba were Wolf picks. So was Aaron Taylor, who was a decent player and a R1 pick as a Guard (!)

Best DL drafted since Wolf was probably Kenny Clark. You could make an argument for KGB, but if we're talking about R1 it's KC. The Packers' track record of drafting DL early has actually been... not good. The DL draft classes have not been great lately, although Karl Brooks could be a steal.

You can find value at any position later in the draft, but you still need high end talent to handle another team's high end talent.
If your OT is a late round guy with limited athleticism, there's a good chance he's going to give up one or two sacks in a game vs. Bosa, and that could change a game (or put your QB in the hospital).
You absolutely need to minimize that risk if you have a chance to.

I love some of the WRs in this class, but I just don't see them taking one in R1. It'll more likely be a Yokozuma, so get your crazy hate mail ready for Gute if you don't like it.

Ever seen a sumo wrestling match? Pretty much a couple of fat, unathletic fellows pushing each other around, and the one with the best techniques eventually wins the match. That’s offensive linemen in a nutshell.

Why waste a 1st on a Bulaga, who was average at best when he wasn’t injured, when you can get a Walker in the 7th? Walker obviously honed his techniques quite a bit since he got drafted.

Then there’s Cletidus. Below average pass rusher. Terrible run stopper. Nothing but an overpaid version of Dean Lowry. Clark, in a nutshell, ain’t a playmaker; ain’t a difference maker. 94 can do what Clark does. Why NFL GMs continue to draft Cletiduses, Wyattes, Joneses and Harrellses in the 1st is beyond fuck.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Pickett, of course, was a first round pick of somebody else, not the Packers. I'm generally in agreement with you about the "yokozuma" thing. I absolutely do not want a first round O Line pick, probably ever. D Line on the other hand is not a never-do thing in the first round, but for this year, we're pretty solid there already thanks to getting lucky with our 4th and 6th rounders last year. That plus my obvious disagreement with you about Kenny Clark. My position on the O Line, which many in here probably disagree with, you I'm not sure, APB, is that O Line is basically not very important. You can get by with mediocrity there if you have excellence at the "skilled" positions. That has been the situation with the Packers for decades, the quality level of the O Line and people like Bakhtiari being magnified way out of proportion in people's eyes by the quality of our QBs, RBs, and WRs. While really bad O Linemen like Marshall House can make a negative difference, merely mediocre O Linemen are plenty good enough, making it unnecessary and stupid IMO to draft an O Lineman in the first round.

I don’t think OL is unimportant. It’s just that the talent gap between Fucking Center (Jenkins) and Dick Dietrich (Deiter, the former Badgers guard who was draft by the Mermen in the 4th round of the same draft as Jenkins) is not as wide as that of DK Metcalf and Allen Lazard.

No doubt a Packer offense featuring Metcalf and Deiter would be better than the one featuring the Fucking Center and Lazard.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Bulaga was good. And Sherrod would have panned out if they didn't ruin his leg. Verba had a long successful career. Clark is a really good pro. Jones and Michels were flops. Michels was drafted by wolf wasn't he??

Clark is a good pro? Since when? No one, especially not the 69ers, is shy about running right up Clark’s butt hole and no sure as fuck ain’t afraid of Clark’s dudly pass rush.

[Fritz]

Michels was drafted by Wolf, yes. I agree with you, Bobble, about Sherrod. He had a bit of the dancing bear thing going on, but also the makings of a good left tackle, kind of like Clifton - supreme pass blocker, decent run blocker. "Jones" - I'm not sure who you're referring to there. Aaron Taylor I remember. And yes, Clark is a really good pro.

[Joemailman]

Michels was drafted by Wolf, yes. I agree with you, Bobble, about Sherrod. He had a bit of the dancing bear thing going on, but also the makings of a good left tackle, kind of like Clifton - supreme pass blocker, decent run blocker. "Jones" - I'm not sure who you're referring to there. Aaron Taylor I remember. And yes, Clark is a really good pro.

Might be referring to Datone Jones, who was JAG at best.

[ThunderDan]

Might be referring to Datone Jones, who was JAG at best.

That is Fat One Jones per my autocorrect in a game day thread once.

[Patler]

I don’t think OL is unimportant. It’s just that the talent gap between Fucking Center (Jenkins) and Dick Dietrich (Deiter, the former Badgers guard who was draft by the Mermen in the 4th round of the same draft as Jenkins) is not as wide as that of DK Metcalf and Allen Lazard.

No doubt a Packer offense featuring Metcalf and Deiter would be better than the one featuring the Fucking Center and Lazard.

What? Did you discover that the talent gap between pick # 44 and pick # 78 is less than the talent gap between pick #64 and an undrafted player? Are you sure? Shocking!

[bobblehead]

I don’t think OL is unimportant. It’s just that the talent gap between Fucking Center (Jenkins) and Dick Dietrich (Deiter, the former Badgers guard who was draft by the Mermen in the 4th round of the same draft as Jenkins) is not as wide as that of DK Metcalf and Allen Lazard.

No doubt a Packer offense featuring Metcalf and Deiter would be better than the one featuring the Fucking Center and Lazard.

Seems like a fair comp. 2nd rounder to a 4th and then a 2nd rounder to an UDFA.

edit: should have read it through. Could have figured out someone realized his ridiculous post.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Seems like a fair comp. 2nd rounder to a 4th and then a 2nd rounder to an UDFA.

edit: should have read it through. Could have figured out someone realized his ridiculous post.

Fine. Now compare the Fucking Center to your boi, “Josh Newman.” Nijman ain’t anything special but he is, in fact, a better tackle than the Fucking Center. Aren’t tackles supposed to be more valuable than guards? Nevertheless, the talent gap between Fucking Center and Nijman ain’t as titanic as that of Metcalf and Lazard.

Much like Wolf’s decision not to draft Moss fucked Bert Favor, German Shepherd’s incompetent decision to take the Fucking Center over Metcalf (or AJ Brown) pretty much costed Butte a ring or two.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Sure, it’s nice to have a D’Brickashaw Ferguson protecting the QB’s blindside. But the kung fu (skill) between a Ferguson and a, say, Marshall Newhouse ain’t as material as that of a Butte and a Jon Kitna.

Premium picks should be used on playmakers like the Claymaker and J-Alex, not Elgton Jenkins, Kenny Clark and Derrick Sherods. Sure, there are hits and busts at every position. But replace Clark with, say, Cletudus Hunt, and the production would be extremely similar.

Try replacing the Claymaker with Frank Zombo. The difference in kung fu is significant. Therefore, gotta use premium picks on finesse playmakers, not fat Yokozunas.

This post needs to be reposted.

[Fosco33]

I appreciate apb being the silly contrarian.

To think OL and DL lacks extreme strength, technique, agility, etc and that there’s not a huge difference in quality is one of the silliest things I’ve ever read.

Best player available - ideally one that you need.

[KYPack]

This post needs to be reposted.

Why? It's totally stupid.

[Fritz]

Why? It's totally stupid.

Maybe that IS why.

[run pMc]

I appreciate apb being the silly contrarian.

To think OL and DL lacks extreme strength, technique, agility, etc and that there’s not a huge difference in quality is one of the silliest things I’ve ever read.

Best player available - ideally one that you need.

100% Agree.
I appreciate some of the attempts at humor, but to suggest OL or DL are not worthy of premium picks is downright crazy.

Ask LAR how they felt about drafting Aaron Donald in R1, or KC about their Super Bowl fortunes without Chris Jones.
While you're at it, ask KC feels about having lost both starting OT and getting absolutely ransacked by Tampa Bay's DL in Super Bowl LV. Ask CIN and Joe Burrow how they felt about getting sacked 7 times by LAR in Super Bowl LVI. Talent and depth matters on the OL and DL.

[texaspackerbacker]

I don't agree with everything APB says even in this part of the forum, but he makes far more sense than the ya'all clique of posters.

D Line, yeah at times a top draft pick there is warranted, just not this year considering the quality the Packers already have there. O Line? NEVER! It's the skill positions, particularly QB that determine success on offense, and the past three decades or more of Packer football demonstrate that. Any perception of high quality O Line play was the result of Favre, Rodgers, and as of last year, Love. The line was porous but the QBs succeeded anyway, and the team was great most of that past three decades. It's only a little less obvious with the running game. It succeeded because of the greatness of the passing game as well as having decent RBs. The key was and always will be a pass first offense with fast RBs as a change of pass to that passing game.

Some will ignorantly say "you can't do it without an O Line". Duh. You need to have somebody playing O Line, taking up space at least. But do you need greatness in the O Line? Hell no. And if you do have greatness, will there be success without a quality QB and excellent RBs and receivers? Also hell no. Sure, if you get some lemon like Marshall House playing, it can screw things up. But not much above that level/mediocrity - as the Packers have consistently had, whether ya'all admit it or not, and things will be just fine, as they have been for most of the past 30+ years in Green Bay. Thus, O Line is NOT worthy of "premium picks".

[Fosco33]

If it’s just taking up space and no technique - then why not just use UDFAs.

I’d argue a LT is one of the most important positions on the team.

[bobblehead]

I like apb when he's being a bit goofy, but I actually think he is serious here. Wrong, but serious.

[run pMc]

BTW, Marshall Newhouse was not a "lemon". He played 10 seasons in the league and

started at left tackle for 13 games during 2011 season when the Packers went 15–1. Newhouse continued as the Packers' starting left tackle for all 16 regular season games and 2 playoff games in 2012 per the Internet.

He played in 133 games and started 81 on them. For a R5 pick, that's pretty darn good.

What you're calling a lemon is actually a league-average 'C to C+' player at worst. That you think he wasn't very good shows what you consider average to be. Lining up 5 UDFAs to basically be fat, slow and unathletic shock absorbers won't protect a QB against a good pass rush, and it sure won't open holes for a run game. It would actually be worse than 5 Newhouses. It would be as bad if not worse than 5 Jake Hansons or Royce Newmans.

You can absolutely find value at OL in Day 3, but league wide those guys are much more likely to be subpar or outright failures. GB has been above average in developing OL players for a few decades now, and some here clearly underappreciate that.

[texaspackerbacker]

He played like a lemon for the Packers. Your stats pretty much demonstrate what I'm saying about O Line quality not being very important, and mediocrity being good enough. Hanson also I would put in the lemon category. Newman maybe. It's hard to figure why he went from at least adequate his first year to noticeably bad after that. Why not put 5 UDFAs there? You probably could as a worst case and still get by. If you did that, though, you'd probably get a couple of Hanson or House types, bad enough that it actually did have a bad effect. Mediocrity, however, as we have generally had over the years (and hell yeah, I include ya'all's sacred cow in that) is plenty good enough.

edit: yeah, Newhouse - he was so forgettable that I forgot his name.

[Arctic Fox]

Kool Aid McKinstry #1 Pick

[Joemailman]

Kool Aid McKinstry #1 Pick

Very possible. I've felt for a while that the top player on the Packers board at 25 will either be a CB or an OT. Cooper DeJean, Nate Wiggins and Kool Aid are all possibilities.

[smuggler]

McKinstry is a good "oh shit" pick, because it quite looks as if the best player available will not be at a position of much need. Ideally, a worthy o-line prospect falls into our laps. I don't see the good corners coming down to us. If we draft Wiggins, I am going to have serious doubts that the team actually intends to run more man-to-man on defense.

Interior O-line, LB, and safety are not first round positions.

[run pMc]

He played like a lemon for the Packers. Your stats pretty much demonstrate what I'm saying about O Line quality not being very important, and mediocrity being good enough.

Um... no, a lemon is not mediocrity. Newhouse was an average NFL player, that's not a lemon. You can get away with 2 of those guys on your OL, but if all you have is mediocrity across the board you're going to have an offense that can be easily exploited by a good pass rush, or one that is unable to run against many teams. in 2011 they had Sitton, Wells, Lang and Bulaga on the line - Newhouse was the least of the group. In 2012 it was the same group except Wells left and they signed a washed up Jeff Saturday. They went from 15-1 to 11-5... coincidence perhaps, but losing good OL hurts an offense.

Right now, Myers is basically mediocrity at C, Rhyan could be a liability. Tom and Jenkins are pretty good and Walker is improving. Nothing wrong with trying to get a LOT better at OL.

Moreover, who are you playing if Myers sprains his MCL? What if Tom hurts his shoulder? They have NO depth. Drafting a guy in R6 who is a year or two from seeing the field is not an option unless you want to get Jordan Love killed.

[run pMc]

Very possible. I've felt for a while that the top player on the Packers board at 25 will either be a CB or an OT. Cooper DeJean, Nate Wiggins and Kool Aid are all possibilities.

Agree.
I've heard so many different things about Kool-Aid that IDK what to think. (He's supposedly a lazy player.) As coach who wants to teach and develop players Hafley is going to want a CB he can mold into 'his guy'.

I like Wiggins but that weight at the combine is scary (173?) and likely disqualifies him. GB wants their CB's around 190.

[bobblehead]

I think the OL is top heavy with less talent available on day 3 than CB. I really want an OL (even interior) in round one, then we can grab a guy like max melton at the back end of 2.

[The Shadow]

Has anyone noticed that Cooper DeJean bears a bit of a resemblance to Carl 'Alfalfa' Switzer?

[texaspackerbacker]

Um... no, a lemon is not mediocrity. Newhouse was an average NFL player, that's not a lemon. You can get away with 2 of those guys on your OL, but if all you have is mediocrity across the board you're going to have an offense that can be easily exploited by a good pass rush, or one that is unable to run against many teams. in 2011 they had Sitton, Wells, Lang and Bulaga on the line - Newhouse was the least of the group. In 2012 it was the same group except Wells left and they signed a washed up Jeff Saturday. They went from 15-1 to 11-5... coincidence perhaps, but losing good OL hurts an offense.

Right now, Myers is basically mediocrity at C, Rhyan could be a liability. Tom and Jenkins are pretty good and Walker is improving. Nothing wrong with trying to get a LOT better at OL.

Moreover, who are you playing if Myers sprains his MCL? What if Tom hurts his shoulder? They have NO depth. Drafting a guy in R6 who is a year or two from seeing the field is not an option unless you want to get Jordan Love killed.

What I said was that Newhouse played like a lemon for the Packers, and I doubt many would dispute that. If he rose to the level of mediocre with other teams, good for him hahahaha. You said a team can get away with having two Newhouse level guys in their O Line? Do you mean post-Packer mediocre Newhouse or Packer lemon Newhouse? I've been saying all along you can get by with 4 or 5 mediocre O Linemen - the Packers have been that for most of the Favre/Rodgers/Love era. Saturday was indeed a total lemon with the Packers. I never had a very high opinion of Wells, and I wouldn't rate Bulaga or Lang any better than mediocre. Sitton was pretty good in his best years. All of them, however, seemed better than they were because of the great QBs we've had who could escape the pass rush. Bottom line IMO is that we don't need to use a high draft pick for O Line - probably ever. 3rd at the highest, more likely 4th or 5th is about right, That's where we got ya'all's sacred cow who I saw as ok, maybe a little above mediocre but not much even in his prime.

[run pMc]

What I said was that Newhouse played like a lemon for the Packers, and I doubt many would dispute that. If he rose to the level of mediocre with other teams, good for him hahahaha. You said a team can get away with having two Newhouse level guys in their O Line? Do you mean post-Packer mediocre Newhouse or Packer lemon Newhouse? I've been saying all along you can get by with 4 or 5 mediocre O Linemen - the Packers have been that for most of the Favre/Rodgers/Love era. Saturday was indeed a total lemon with the Packers. I never had a very high opinion of Wells, and I wouldn't rate Bulaga or Lang any better than mediocre. Sitton was pretty good in his best years. All of them, however, seemed better than they were because of the great QBs we've had who could escape the pass rush. Bottom line IMO is that we don't need to use a high draft pick for O Line - probably ever. 3rd at the highest, more likely 4th or 5th is about right, That's where we got ya'all's sacred cow who I saw as ok, maybe a little above mediocre but not much even in his prime.

LOL

ask a great QB and his Achilles how mediocre his OLs were. Funny how he lasted 4 passes once he switched teams.
I think it's great you;re a Packer fan, I don't think you are a good judge of OL play. I'm fine leaving it at that.

[texaspackerbacker]

His whole Packer career, Rodgers was rushed horribly. Maybe by the time he got to the Jets, he wasn't mobile as when he was younger. Or maybe it was just bad luck - like most injuries to anybody. As for judging O Line play, I know what I see and what I have seen all through the Rodgers and Favre years and a good deal of time before that. I remember several QBs the Packers were forced by injuries to use, most notably Seneca Wallace, who had to deal with the same kind of pass rush as Rodgers, and it wasn't a pretty sight. It's the QB that makes the O Line seem good or bad.

[KYPack]

Tex your ability to rate Oline talent is worse than piss poor. There are countless examples of this in your posts over the years.
Where do you get this bullshit that Packer OLines were mediocre at best and ARod and his great skill is what kept us in the games in which he played? That's a total crock of shit. We have had many capable OLineman that you criticize unfairly.

Focusing on your extreme criticism of David Bahktiari is an example of your bizarre player evaluations. This guy is one of the best Olineman in Packer History. On November 15, 2020, the Packers signed Dave to a four-year, $105.5 million contract extension that would make him the highest-paid offensive lineman in NFL history. He twice a first team all pro, THREE times a 2nd team All Pro, 3 times Pro Bowler. But I guess those honors don't count because they involve "the goddamned media"?

The Packers didn't put good lines in front of Rodgers? That is total bullshit. In 2020 we had 2 1st team All Pro Olinemen and Elly Jenkins was named a Pro Bowler. But I guess those players ain't good enough for coach Tex.

Lose your "Y'alls Sacred cow" for the simple reason that you have no clue what you are talking about.

[Fritz]

Agree.
I've heard so many different things about Kool-Aid that IDK what to think. (He's supposedly a lazy player.) As coach who wants to teach and develop players Hafley is going to want a CB he can mold into 'his guy'.

I like Wiggins but that weight at the combine is scary (173?) and likely disqualifies him. GB wants their CB's around 190.

I think we can safely blame Kool-Aid's parents for his laziness. How can anyone named "Kool-Aid" possibly be expected to work hard?

I know this is not logical but I will be somewhat comforted if the Packers' first-round pick is NOT at a position of need. That kind of pick leads me to think the team really is going BPA and not by need. The whole schtick about "Yeah, he was the best player on our board . . . and he just so happens to fill our biggest need" is not necessarily untrue, but it can smell fishy.

[jklowan]

I think we can safely blame Kool-Aid's parents for his laziness. How can anyone named "Kool-Aid" possibly be expected to work hard?

I know this is not logical but I will be somewhat comforted if the Packers' first-round pick is NOT at a position of need. That kind of pick leads me to think the team really is going BPA and not by need. The whole schtick about "Yeah, he was the best player on our board . . . and he just so happens to fill our biggest need" is not necessarily untrue, but it can smell fishy.

I think they pick for need with the 1st 3 picks, just a hunch but I am starting to think it goes like this. 1st round trade down to late 1st or early 2nd, then OL/LB/Safety my guess is Graham Barton/Edgerrin Cooper/Jaden Hicks

[jklowan]

I think they pick for need with the 1st 3 picks, just a hunch but I am starting to think it goes like this. 1st round trade down to late 1st or early 2nd, then OL/LB/Safety my guess is Graham Barton/Edgerrin Cooper/Jaden Hicks

Great minds think alike...
https://lombardiave.com/posts/packers-benefit-stefon-diggs-trade-2024-nfl-mock-draft-01htjpmes0fx/partners/36534?fbclid=IwAR3E8i01Kbf8jtQpWDuTPIP0ZLvIdC-2cyltz-1mwhso5HNfkUFFugDVe7A_aem_ATadwJs6I_Q8nvk3TZgqOANZ 2qcULRpymRdqqw4eYdhsAZGFxLdLCLhNhaq8cW1FYrEl_5_h3n AQheTSg5EBlyOe

[Fritz]

Has anyone noticed that Cooper DeJean bears a bit of a resemblance to Carl 'Alfalfa' Switzer?

https://media.gettyimages.com/id/120762889/photo/the-little-rascals.jpg?s=594x594&w=gi&k=20&c=OmtT87U78OsiNwo-0EDwcLCiuKzKZKIfWaXKRPJndiw=

https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/652/108/12108652.png

I see it!

I hope he has a better career than Carl Switzer did. Dude ended up getting only bit parts after The Little Rascals and ended up as a dog trainer and hunting guide/bartender. Murdered at the age of 31.

[texaspackerbacker]

KYP, you and the rest of the sacred cow worshiping clique in here must be blind. Virtually every pass play, Rodgers was rushed quickly and horribly, and a helluva a lot of it was outside rush through Bakhtiari's spot. It was the mobility and overall quality of Rodgers (and Favre before him and now Love) that made the O Line seem to some as good, few sacks given up, etc. Do ya'all not recall the few times other lesser QBs were back there (the first one I mentioned that comes to mind was Seneca Wallace) running for their lives due to the porous O Line blocking? Do ya'all also not recall that by far the most successful running plays were through the center/guard holes, with much less success outside or off tackle with the sacred cow blocking?

And through it all, the team was near the top just about every year - no thanks to the O Lines.

This being the draft thread, my position was and is that I HOPE they don't use a first or probably second round either pick for O Line, as firstly, the likelihood of a bust being picked there is higher and secondly and probably more important,, just ok or generally mediocre O Linemen, as the Packers have had just about all the time since the Lombardi era, are plenty good enough assuming you have excellence at the skill positions.

[bobblehead]

Tex's ability to rank OL is rivaled only by APB's ability to rank cold play music.

[bobblehead]

I think they pick for need with the 1st 3 picks, just a hunch but I am starting to think it goes like this. 1st round trade down to late 1st or early 2nd, then OL/LB/Safety my guess is Graham Barton/Edgerrin Cooper/Jaden Hicks

Not sure a trade down and still getting Barton is in the cards, but hard to say. AGAIN, there are so many good OL that I have to believe a really quality (think Bulaga) player slips to our pick. Not sure I will want to trade back at that point....sort of like I didn't want to trade back when TJ Watt slid to us.

[The Shadow]

https://media.gettyimages.com/id/120762889/photo/the-little-rascals.jpg?s=594x594&w=gi&k=20&c=OmtT87U78OsiNwo-0EDwcLCiuKzKZKIfWaXKRPJndiw=

https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/652/108/12108652.png

I see it!

I hope he has a better career than Carl Switzer did. Dude ended up getting only bit parts after The Little Rascals and ended up as a dog trainer and hunting guide/bartender. Murdered at the age of 31.

Yes!!

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Tex's ability to rank OL is rivaled only by APB's ability to rank cold play music.

1. Clocks
2. The Scientist
3. In My Place
4. People of the Pride
5. A Rush of Blood to the Head
6. Coloratura
7. Orphans
8. Let Somebody Go
9. Don’t Panic
10. Speed of Sound
11. Amsterdam
12. Yellow
13. Champions of the World
14. Violet Hill
15. Everglow
16. Viva La Vida

[KYPack]

KYP, you and the rest of the sacred cow worshiping clique in here must be blind. Virtually every pass play, Rodgers was rushed quickly and horribly, and a helluva a lot of it was outside rush through Bakhtiari's spot. It was the mobility and overall quality of Rodgers (and Favre before him and now Love) that made the O Line seem to some as good, few sacks given up, etc. Do ya'all not recall the few times other lesser QBs were back there (the first one I mentioned that comes to mind was Seneca Wallace) running for their lives due to the porous O Line blocking? Do ya'all also not recall that by far the most successful running plays were through the center/guard holes, with much less success outside or off tackle with the sacred cow blocking?

And through it all, the team was near the top just about every year - no thanks to the O Lines.

This being the draft thread, my position was and is that I HOPE they don't use a first or probably second round either pick for O Line, as firstly, the likelihood of a bust being picked there is higher and secondly and probably more important,, just ok or generally mediocre O Linemen, as the Packers have had just about all the time since the Lombardi era, are plenty good enough assuming you have excellence at the skill positions.

The forum members are blind? I guess the All-Pro selectors, the Packer coaches and Green Bay management were quite myopic too. Your assertions are pure hogwash. I don't know why you keep up these foolish ideas of yours, but let me assure you they have no basis in fact.
This bullshit you keep peddling also reflects negatively on your credibilty.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Shadow’s Packers Mock Draft:

1. CB Cooper DeJean
2. WR Ladd McConkey
2. RB Will Shipley
3. S Cole Bishop
3. LB Tommy Eichenberg
4. Edge Jonah Elliss
5. DT Logan Lee
6. TE Tanner McLachlan
7. OT Garret Greenfield

[Fosco33]

Are Tex and apb the same person. Man - that’d be hilarious.

[texaspackerbacker]

Nah. I can honestly say I've never listened to even on of those Coldplay songs - and never will.

What is the response for ya'all sacred cow worshipers to the idea that Rodgers had to escape horrible pass rush pressure his whole career, much more than most QBs on most teams, and that the few times we had to use backup QBs like Seneca Wallace, the porous O Line got exposed by that horrible pressure on the QB? I would think that shit is pretty hard to deny for anybody who ain't blind. Also, the fact that the Packer running game was extremely much more successful up the middle instead of off tackle or outside - how do ya'all get out of that one?

[sharpe1027]

Analyzing two games of Seneca Wallace isn't the slam dunk you think it is.

Neither is a generalized statement about success inside runs versus outside runs.

Neither is constantly insulting anyone that doesn't agree with you.

I get it. You're smarter than everyone else and nobody will convince you otherwise.

[texaspackerbacker]

Is that the clique's response? To your credit, you're not denying the obvious - that Packer QBs were horribly rushed most of the time for the past couple of decades. I'll also give you credit for remembering Seneca Wallace. It wasn't quite as bad with Tolzien or Hundley or whoever as they had a little bit of mobility, just not like Rodgers or Favre. But through it all, the mediocrity of the O Line was consistent. And good job also of acknowledging the "generalized statement" about the run game. Nothing is all the time, but it sure was a "generalized thing" that most of the success was inside running.

Insults? I reserve terms like dumbass for a select few in here - usually counterpunching. Have I ever called you that? or KYP? or most of the rest of ya'all. If you think calling ya'all "sacred cow worshipers" is an insult, that would be kinda acknowledging that it's a bad thing to be hahahaha.

[Fosco33]

Is that the clique's response? To your credit, you're not denying the obvious - that Packer QBs were horribly rushed most of the time for the past couple of decades. I'll also give you credit for remembering Seneca Wallace. It wasn't quite as bad with Tolzien or Hundley or whoever as they had a little bit of mobility, just not like Rodgers or Favre. But through it all, the mediocrity of the O Line was consistent. And good job also of acknowledging the "generalized statement" about the run game. Nothing is all the time, but it sure was a "generalized thing" that most of the success was inside running.

Insults? I reserve terms like dumbass for a select few in here - usually counterpunching. Have I ever called you that? or KYP? or most of the rest of ya'all. If you think calling ya'all "sacred cow worshipers" is an insult, that would be kinda acknowledging that it's a bad thing to be hahahaha.

https://wisportsheroics.com/the-great-offensive-lines-in-the-aaron-rodgers-era/

[Fritz]

As I get older and realize I know less than I thought I did, I am less certain of what the Packers "should" do with the draft. I have tendencies - trade back rather than up, build from the lines on out, and so on - but those are just extensions of my own personality quirks rather than opinions rooted in research and study.

So I don't know what the hell would be a good first-round move, or even what would constitute a good draft, except that there better be some safeties and linebackers and offensive linemen in there, and a running back, too.

I saw APB post The Shadow's mock draft, I think it was, and a wide receiver named "Ladd McConkey" or something like that was listed as a pick in the second round. Doesn't seem like they'd want another wide receiver in an early round, but doesn't his name remind you of "Boaty McBoatface," and wouldn't that be a fun name to kick around in discussions?

I only really know some of the big names that are tossed around here and in the few articles I read, so if the Packers draft someone I haven't really read about, I'll probably think it's a bad pick, even though I don't know shit.

It's fun to be a fan.

[sharpe1027]

I don't know single person that agrees with this line of argument. Many completely and utterly disagree, including people with coaching and playing experiences and people who's job is to evaluate their play

We must therefore except one of two things.

All these other people, each of us included, are" blind," and Tex is right in seeing something none of us can understand.

Or

Tex is completely wrong.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

https://wisportsheroics.com/the-great-offensive-lines-in-the-aaron-rodgers-era/

Other than Bulaga, who was injury-prone and probably a tad above par when he did suit up, none of the Yokozunas listed were 1st rounders. Moral of the story? Pack ain’t need to waste 1st rounders on Yokozunas.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Nah. I can honestly say I've never listened to even on of those Coldplay songs - and never will.

What is the response for ya'all sacred cow worshipers to the idea that Rodgers had to escape horrible pass rush pressure his whole career, much more than most QBs on most teams, and that the few times we had to use backup QBs like Seneca Wallace, the porous O Line got exposed by that horrible pressure on the QB? I would think that shit is pretty hard to deny for anybody who ain't blind. Also, the fact that the Packer running game was extremely much more successful up the middle instead of off tackle or outside - how do ya'all get out of that one?

Seriously, check out Clocks.

The lights go out and Butte can’t be saved
Tides that he tried to swim against
Have brought him down upon his knees

Come out upon Butte’s seas
Cursed missed opportunities
Is Love a part of the cure?
Or is Love part of the disease?

Butte is
Butte is
Butte is
And no one else compares

[Fosco33]

Seriously, check out Clocks.

The lights go out and Butte can’t be saved
Tides that he tried to swim against
Have brought him down upon his knees

Come out upon Butte’s seas
Cursed missed opportunities
Is Love a part of the cure?
Or is Love part of the disease?

Butte is
Butte is
Butte is
And no one else compares

Are you perfecting chatgpt lyrics leveraging famous songs. I dig

[bobblehead]

As I get older and realize I know less than I thought I did, I am less certain of what the Packers "should" do with the draft. I have tendencies - trade back rather than up, build from the lines on out, and so on - but those are just extensions of my own personality quirks rather than opinions rooted in research and study.

So I don't know what the hell would be a good first-round move, or even what would constitute a good draft, except that there better be some safeties and linebackers and offensive linemen in there, and a running back, too.

I saw APB post The Shadow's mock draft, I think it was, and a wide receiver named "Ladd McConkey" or something like that was listed as a pick in the second round. Doesn't seem like they'd want another wide receiver in an early round, but doesn't his name remind you of "Boaty McBoatface," and wouldn't that be a fun name to kick around in discussions?

I only really know some of the big names that are tossed around here and in the few articles I read, so if the Packers draft someone I haven't really read about, I'll probably think it's a bad pick, even though I don't know shit.

It's fun to be a fan.

I didn't know most of the players APB posted, but I am assuming they were all white and the post was in jest. It has some humor value and required some research which is why I don't hate on APB as much as many here do.

[bobblehead]

I don't know single person that agrees with this line of argument. Many completely and utterly disagree, including people with coaching and playing experiences and people who's job is to evaluate their play

We must therefore except one of two things.

All these other people, each of us included, are" blind," and Tex is right in seeing something none of us can understand.

Or

Tex is completely wrong.

There are many examples of the crowd being wrong and the lone voice being right. Tex has never been one of those examples.

[run pMc]

Yeah it's been well established Tex doesn't know OL.
FWIW, I saw a PFF chart that showed Jordan Love was pressured 212 times last year. Dak was pressured 229 times, Brock Purdy 245, Jalen Hurts 270, Mahomes 303 (!)

I honestly don't care if they draft Graham Barton at 25 if he becomes the next Zach Martin. I'm expecting it their R1 pick to be non-splashy tbh. They aren't drafting a WR without trading someone (Watson? Doubs?) to make room.

[The Shadow]

Shadow’s Packers Mock Draft:

1. CB Cooper DeJean
2. WR Ladd McConkey
2. RB Will Shipley
3. S Cole Bishop
3. LB Tommy Eichenberg
4. Edge Jonah Elliss
5. DT Logan Lee
6. TE Tanner McLachlan
7. OT Garret Greenfield

.................................................. ...
I think you forgot Dylan Laube.

[red]

i'm liking a few of the other safeties the more i hear and read about them

draft is weak for free safeties, but there seems to be a bunch of guys that are decent at "in the box/nickel" type guys. which is what we need

bullard from georgia
bishop from utah
hicks from washington state
tykee smith from georgia
james williams from miami (built like a LB)

we can get a starter after the first round, probably even in the third or later

[sharpe1027]

There are many examples of the crowd being wrong and the lone voice being right. Tex has never been one of those examples.

There are far more examples of a single voice being wrong and the crowd being right.

[texaspackerbacker]

Typical responses from the clique, Sharpe, etc.- it MUST be that way because the clique says it is, and zero countering of the obvious counter points to ya'll's crap. You don't because you can't. Ya'all oughta try observing and thinking for yourself sometime.

As for the topic of the thread, the draft, I sincerely HOPE it isn't O Line in the first round or probably second either. Edge Rusher or Corner, even though we are pretty well stocked those places, would be my choice. The needs, if any, would be RB and ILB, and those generally are not worthy of first round picks.

[sharpe1027]

Clique. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

[pittstang5]

i'm liking a few of the other safeties the more i hear and read about them

draft is weak for free safeties, but there seems to be a bunch of guys that are decent at "in the box/nickel" type guys. which is what we need

bullard from georgia
bishop from utah
hicks from washington state
tykee smith from georgia
james williams from miami (built like a LB)

we can get a starter after the first round, probably even in the third or later

My money is on Gute taking Hicks and I think he takes him earlier than what all the "Draft Experts" say he's going to go - possibly with one of the 2nd rounders. The more I read about Hicks, the more I like.

Cole Bishop is another Safety I think the Packers are gonna look hard at and could take early.

Another safety I've been eyeing in the later rounds (4-5) is Malik Mustapha, Wake Forest.

[Joemailman]

Did an NFC North 3 round mock draft with no trades

Bears (1) Caleb Williams - QB - USC
Bears (9) Jared Verse - EDGE - Florida St.
Vikings (11) J.J. McCarthy - QB - Michigan
Vikings (23) Laiatu Latu - EDGE = UCLA
Packers (25) Cooper DeJean - CB - Iowa
Lions (29) Graham Barton - IOL - Duke
Packers (41) Jer'zhan Newton - DL - Illinois
Packers (58) Tyler Nubin - S - Minnesota
Lions (61) Kris Jenkins - DL - Michigan
Lions (73) Xavier Legette - WR - South Carolina
Bears (75) Jonathan Brooks - WR - Texas
Packers (88) Patrick Paul - OT - Houston
Packers (91) Jaden Hicks - S - Washington St.

[texaspackerbacker]

Clique. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

hahahaha ok, what do you think it means? I use the term to mean crowd following/peer pressure/somebody swallowing some shit and various others (I'll refrain from calling them dumbasses so as not to insult you hahahaha) respewing the same shit. It happens in here a lot - cliquish behavior.

[sharpe1027]

hahahaha ok, what do you think it means? I use the term to mean crowd following/peer pressure/somebody swallowing some shit and various others (I'll refrain from calling them dumbasses so as not to insult you hahahaha) respewing the same shit. It happens in here a lot - cliquish behavior.

When te entire world disagrees with you, they're not a clique.

[bobblehead]

Yeah it's been well established Tex doesn't know OL.
FWIW, I saw a PFF chart that showed Jordan Love was pressured 212 times last year. Dak was pressured 229 times, Brock Purdy 245, Jalen Hurts 270, Mahomes 303 (!)

I honestly don't care if they draft Graham Barton at 25 if he becomes the next Zach Martin. I'm expecting it their R1 pick to be non-splashy tbh. They aren't drafting a WR without trading someone (Watson? Doubs?) to make room.

I just saw a mock with a new name thrown out there and it screams Gutes to be honest. Payton Wilson LB. 9.88 RAS and the number that jumped out to me was 17.5 tackles for a loss. He has size too at 6'3" and 233. Can probably pack 10 pounds of muscle if he is a self starter. No one really thinks LB as our first rounder in this particular draft, but we have a need, dude can ball, and Gutes rarely follows the "mocks". This is a total outlier and I could totally see him pulling that trigger while we all throw shit at the TV.

[bobblehead]

There are far more examples of a single voice being wrong and the crowd being right.

Naturally. I thought that was embedded in my post.

[The Shadow]

Payton Wilson

The problem is he is an older prospect with a major injuries history. Outstanding player - but those are pretty heavy red flags.

[red]

i just heard on one of the packers podcasts that the 25th pick has been traded 8 times in the last 7 years and 15 times in the last 19 years

strong chance we don't keep that pick

[red]

Payton Wilson

The problem is he is an older prospect with a major injuries history. Outstanding player - but those are pretty heavy red flags.

yeah those are

good looking player, but i don't think you take him in the first with those flags

[Joemailman]

i just heard on one of the packers podcasts that the 25th pick has been traded 8 times in the last 7 years and 15 times in the last 19 years

strong chance we don't keep that pick

Yep. The team holding the 25th pick probably doesn't have a 1st round grade on anyone left. The teams that move up are trying to fill a specific need.


Andy Herman
@AndyHermanNFL

The 25th pick in the draft hasn't been made by it's original holder since 2016 - that's 7 consecutive drafts where it was involved in some type of trade. It's also been utilized in a trade in 14 of the past 20 years.

[red]

anyone else completely confused by 3 of the top o-line prospects being

Fautanu
fashanu
and Fuaga

thats a lot of f's and vowels

[Joemailman]

Fuck 'em. I don't fathom Packers will have a shot at any of them. Fashanu is my fave, but there is a fair chance Fautanu will fall to 25.

[Joemailman]

yeah those are

good looking player, but i don't think you take him in the first with those flags

Wouldn't take him at 25. But with 2 2nd and 2 3rd round picks, I'd be tempted to take him at 41. Walker and Wilson could cover a lot of ground. Wilson could even line up as box safety in some situations.

[bobblehead]

i just heard on one of the packers podcasts that the 25th pick has been traded 8 times in the last 7 years and 15 times in the last 19 years

strong chance we don't keep that pick

8 times in 7 years....that is a lot....like 114% of the time.

[bobblehead]

Yep. The team holding the 25th pick probably doesn't have a 1st round grade on anyone left. The teams that move up are trying to fill a specific need.

Also teams at 25 are "so close" and probably trade up just as often ...just my theory without looking.

[red]

8 times in 7 years....that is a lot....like 114% of the time.

it was used in a trade up, then the new team traded back again from it

it was actually last year

giants had #25. traded to the jags to move up one spot, then jags traded it to the bills for pick #27 and a 4th

[jklowan]

I think I would love this haul if possible, would add a toughness to this team

Troy Fautanu
T.J. Tampa
Edgerrin Cooper
Jaden Hicks
Trey Benson or Braelon Allen

[pittstang5]

anyone else completely confused by 3 of the top o-line prospects being

Fautanu
fashanu
and Fuaga

thats a lot of f's and vowels

Yep, every time one is mentioned, I have to look them up and try to remember which one is which and what school.

[bobblehead]

it was used in a trade up, then the new team traded back again from it

it was actually last year

giants had #25. traded to the jags to move up one spot, then jags traded it to the bills for pick #27 and a 4th

Ah...well played sir. I thought it was a typo and was having a little fun.

[texaspackerbacker]

When te entire world disagrees with you, they're not a clique.

A clique is when one dumbass claims something and some other dumbasses follow like sheep saying oh yeah, oh yeah, it must be true. A common characteristic of such cliques is that they have vastly overrated ideas of the extent that their crap is swallowed. Sound familiar? hahahaha

[ThunderDan]

clique
noun
ˈklik also ˈklēk
Synonyms of clique
: a narrow exclusive circle or group of persons
especially : one held together by common interests, views, or purposes

[sharpe1027]

A clique is when one dumbass claims something and some other dumbasses follow like sheep saying oh yeah, oh yeah, it must be true. A common characteristic of such cliques is that they have vastly overrated ideas of the extent that their crap is swallowed. Sound familiar? hahahaha

Nope. When the entire world disagrees with one individual, the entire world is not a clique.

[red]

Ah...well played sir. I thought it was a typo and was having a little fun.

it wasn't my find, i just repeated what i head on a podcast

it does sound stupid when you first hear it, but then after you know the details you go "oh well yeah that makes perfect sense"

[Joemailman]

Packers #25 picks:

2004: Ahmad Carroll
1999: Antuan Edwards
1967: Don Horn
1936: Bernie Scherer

Better trade the pick.

[Joemailman]

Texas DL T'Vondre Sweat arrested for DWI. Likely 2nd or 3rd round pick.

Sweat, 22, was booked Sunday afternoon into Travis County Jail, according to online records, after being arrested by Austin police. He faces a Class B misdemeanor, which in Texas carries a fine up to $2,000 and 180 days in jail.

[pittstang5]

Texas DL T'Vondre Sweat arrested for DWI. Likely 2nd or 3rd round pick.

Sweat, 22, was booked Sunday afternoon into Travis County Jail, according to online records, after being arrested by Austin police. He faces a Class B misdemeanor, which in Texas carries a fine up to $2,000 and 180 days in jail.

Seems every year there's at least one of these draft prospects that does something stupid right before the draft. I think it was the DLineman, Carter, last year? He still went in the 1st round, but dropped.

Think he's completely off some teams' draft boards now because of this? His combine showing wasn't too good too if I remember.

[Frozen Tundra]

yeah those are

good looking player, but i don't think you take him in the first with those flags

I didn't start paying attention to him until he blew the doors off of the Combine, but I think he's on a lot of people's radar now. He's a freakish athlete who just rocked the Combine, but that injury history.... 2 ACLs, on I think the same knee, shoulder surgery... plus, I've noticed he often has a hard time beating blockers (even tight ends), which - when you consider that a lot of the blockers he has touble beating are 2, even 3 years younger than he is - makes him slip a bit for me. He also plays high, which seems to make it easier for blockers to knock him off balance, and has some weaknesses in his tackling technique - tends to give up a lot of yards after contact.

But he's a smart player, with a great attitude, and technique is coachable. I think 2nd round is a little early, but I wouldn't mind him in the 3rd and would be quite happy to get him in the 4th. I just suspect someone will take him in the first 60 or so, because he's a pretty shiny object. He's got a terrific upside, if he stays healthy.

[pittstang5]

I didn't start paying attention to him until he blew the doors off of the Combine, but I think he's on a lot of people's radar now. He's a freakish athlete who just rocked the Combine, but that injury history.... 2 ACLs, on I think the same knee, shoulder surgery... plus, I've noticed he often has a hard time beating blockers (even tight ends), which - when you consider that a lot of the blockers he has touble beating are 2, even 3 years younger than he is - makes him slip a bit for me. He also plays high, which seems to make it easier for blockers to knock him off balance, and has some weaknesses in his tackling technique - tends to give up a lot of yards after contact.

But he's a smart player, with a great attitude, and technique is coachable. I think 2nd round is a little early, but I wouldn't mind him in the 3rd and would be quite happy to get him in the 4th. I just suspect someone will take him in the first 60 or so, because he's a pretty shiny object. He's got a terrific upside, if he stays healthy.

I watched a Mock draft on NFL Network a couple weeks ago and the show peeps had the Packers taking him in the 1st round at pick 25. I was like, no way are the Packers taking him there.

If he's there in the 4th round, it's a no brainer, but I agree with you, he's most likely gone somewhere in the late 2nd or 3rd round.

[run pMc]

I've said it before, Payton Wilson scares the hell out of me. 3 years from now he could be the best ILB from this class, or he could be out of the league because of age and medicals. I watched a couple games (Louisville, ND, WF) and he's fast, tall and rangy but doesn't have a lot of sand in his pants. He's a "see ball, chase and hit" type where you'd have to keep him clean. I think if a pro OL player gets his hands on him, he's done. Can't shed a block, but is fast quick enough to run around them sometimes.

I'm not sure if Hafley's D is going to be one where the DL eat up blockers and let the LBs roam. He'll do well in a scheme like that, but he's far from a finished product.
Which leads me to the age - he'll turn 24 just before the draft, so you're looking at a guy without much more upside, and likely a one contract player. The injuries add to the concern, although they were when he was younger and he's been healthier since, but I'm sure teams have medical concerns.

He's a boom or bust player and one I personally would stay away from unless he's there in R4. My guess? Someone will fall in love with him before then and takes him Day 2. There's no sane way he's a R1 pick.

[Joemailman]

Daniel Jeremiah has Wilson at #41 on his top 50 board. That may indicate exactly the decision Gute would have to make. You may be able to get him at 41, but not later.

[Joemailman]

Kentucky RB Ray Davis meeting with Packers today. Likely 3-4 round pick.

[smuggler]

Davis probably represents the lowest RAS the Packers are willing to tolerate from a RB in the draft. If he's projected as a 4th, with a 6~ RAS, we would probably take him in the 6th if he falls.

[SudsMcBucky]

Packers #25 picks:

2004: Ahmad Carroll
1999: Antuan Edwards
1967: Don Horn
1936: Bernie Scherer

Better trade the pick.

Yeah, I think we ALL were cursing at the TV when that Bernie Scherer card got turned into the podium and announced.

[run pMc]

Davis probably represents the lowest RAS the Packers are willing to tolerate from a RB in the draft. If he's projected as a 4th, with a 6~ RAS, we would probably take him in the 6th if he falls.

he has some fun tape; I really liked him until I learned he was old. Dude is older that Payton Wilson (by a few months - Nov 1999). That's an old rookie. Has a good back story, I like his toughness and has some wiggle for his size. R4 feels rich for me, Few RBs will come off the board until Day 3 so I expect that to be when Gute strikes. Am very curious to see Gute's draft moves at RB and S - will say a lot about the current and future roster expectations.

[Joemailman]

Yeah, I think we ALL were cursing at the TV when that Bernie Scherer card got turned into the podium and announced.

6 picks later, Paul (Bear) Bryant, who played the same position, was picked.

[Joemailman]

Dane Brugler
@dpbrugler

From NFL team at Cooper DeJean's pro day:

4.43/4.45 40-yard dash
38.5" vert
10'4" broad

Outstanding workout.

[smuggler]

Gotta think that DeJean goes before 25 with the tape and the excellent pro day showing. Maybe we trade up, but probably not.

[Joemailman]

DeJean's numbers would have been in the middle among CB's at the combine. But the fact he does it at 202 pounds makes his RAS elite. Almost all mocks I've seen has him going 20-25.

[run pMc]

No agility drills :( The lack of agility drills by players has been pretty frustrating - it's worse each year, and yet very important to measure. At least they do the jumps. Few players run in a straight line for 40 yards.

For some reason I don't think he's the top choice for GB at 25. He's a fine prospect but I feel like there are some who have fixated on him and... I don't get it.
If you try to turn him into a safety there's no guarantee it will work right away, and as a safety prospect he's considered a better fit in the old Barry scheme.

If he's there and they take him, great. If he's there and they take an EDGE or OT or (gasp) a different CB, I can't wait to see the Packer Internet turn irrational and fiery on Gute.

[Fritz]

Yeah, I think we ALL were cursing at the TV when that Bernie Scherer card got turned into the podium and announced.

TV? It was broadcast on the Columbia Broadcast Service - or was it the National Broadcast Corporation? - I can't remember. And they didn't turn in any damn card. They wrote him a letter and sent it via the U.S. Mail.

Found a picture of that Payton Wilson. I had to look around, but I finally found it on the AARP website.

https://images.wsj.net/im-295823/?width=1278&size=1

[bobblehead]

Gotta think that DeJean goes before 25 with the tape and the excellent pro day showing. Maybe we trade up, but probably not.

Unlike the 8 times in 7 years, you can't explain how 30 guys will be off the board before we pick at 25. Maybe Cooper goes, but there will be some help available.

[smuggler]

Gonna need context on a crackpot comment like that.

[red]

Yeah, I think we ALL were cursing at the TV when that Bernie Scherer card got turned into the podium and announced.

thats one of the rare occasions when selecting just based on a high RAS score can bite you in the ass

[Fritz]

Packers #25 picks:

2004: Ahmad Carroll
1999: Antuan Edwards
1967: Don Horn
1936: Bernie Scherer

Better trade the pick.

Now THAT is a shitshow roster of draft picks.

I have read that ol’ Cooper DeQueen is pretty stiff in the hips - maybe that’s why no agility drills. He doesn’t seem as godlike as has been posted on Packerrats.

But what do I know? I’m right maybe half the time. Maybe.

[Joemailman]

Now THAT is a shitshow roster of draft picks.

I have read that ol’ Cooper DeQueen is pretty stiff in the hips - maybe that’s why no agility drills. He doesn’t seem as godlike as has been posted on Packerrats.

But what do I know? I’m right maybe half the time. Maybe.

I think the thing about him is his versatility. I don't think he'll necessarily be a perennial Pro Bowl guy, but he'll be well above average wherever a team plays him. I have heard he has some stiffness in his hips. With his size, if he didn't, he'd be a top 10 pick.

[smuggler]

I have read that ol’ Cooper DeQueen is pretty stiff in the hips - maybe that’s why no agility drills.

He definitely has issues changing directions. He tries to slow down to make cuts. It's most obvious in the punt return highlights, but it's there in the coverage.

[jklowan]

Trey Taylor S Airforce, anyone like this dude

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AuldhoMAGg

[Joemailman]

Trey Taylor S Airforce, anyone like this dude

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AuldhoMAGg

Has the size and athleticism the Packers like despite average speed. Probably best suited for box safety. Likely late round pick.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GKerCO0WUAAm6Ln?format=jpg&name=small

[Fritz]

Seems every year there's at least one of these draft prospects that does something stupid right before the draft. I think it was the DLineman, Carter, last year? He still went in the 1st round, but dropped.

Think he's completely off some teams' draft boards now because of this? His combine showing wasn't too good too if I remember.

He didn't test well athletically, and I read today that he'd had a history of partying but was telling prospective NFL suitors that his partying days were behind him. Then he was arrested with that DWI.

Now there's a Homer Simpson "Doh!" moment if I ever saw one. I know they're young, but you'd kinda think, with so much on the line (contracts are slotted for cripes' sakes), these young bucks would lay off the partying for a couple of months. Or use Uber.

Though a friend of mine and I did get driven into Detroit last weekend via Uber by a guy on crack.

[bobblehead]

He definitely has issues changing directions. He tries to slow down to make cuts. It's most obvious in the punt return highlights, but it's there in the coverage.

After watching some more film and the fact that he skipped agility drills at his pro day I agree. I actually no longer want him at 25. I was a fanboy until recently, but the OL depth and talent level means I will be disappointed if they draft anything else when we pick.

DeJean is probably a safety in the NFL and while we have a need, I don't want to use a 1 on a guy who hasn't played the position a ton. I would love him at 41 though as his size, athleticism and straight line speed would make for a good safety.

[run pMc]

Seems every year there's at least one of these draft prospects that does something stupid right before the draft. I think it was the DLineman, Carter, last year? He still went in the 1st round, but dropped.

Think he's completely off some teams' draft boards now because of this? His combine showing wasn't too good too if I remember.

Yeah, Jalen Carter was involved in a car crash - basically he was drag racing with other UGA staff and plauers and the other car crashed and people died. He fled the scene but came back later.

I like T.Sweat's tape but he's not going to be a 3 down player and he's also not a great fit in Hafley's 4-3. That plus this latest dumbfuckery will drop him down boards, and word of him liking to party (He was arrested at 2pm in the afternoon on a Sunday) is a major red flag. Yeah, he's young and immature, but what happens when he gets a bag of money and is expected to be a pro? GB has a pretty full DL room now, but I could see them sneaky pick one late. Kenny Clark's contract is up and they might go younger there, but I'd rather keep Clark.
The Boyd kid from NIU was brought in for a top 30 visit, look for him to be a Day 3 prospect for GB.

If Sweat was there in R4 or 5 I'd think about it, but he'll be gone by then. When he's motivated and keeps his pad level low he is an absolute load and IOL will get bowled into the QB's lap. I saw it sometimes, but not enough. Kind of a shame, was enjoying the image of Garrett Bradbury trying to handle him and failing miserably.

[Joemailman]

After watching some more film and the fact that he skipped agility drills at his pro day I agree. I actually no longer want him at 25. I was a fanboy until recently, but the OL depth and talent level means I will be disappointed if they draft anything else when we pick.

DeJean is probably a safety in the NFL and while we have a need, I don't want to use a 1 on a guy who hasn't played the position a ton. I would love him at 41 though as his size, athleticism and straight line speed would make for a good safety.

I'm not a fanboy, but I'd be okay with him at 25. But okay if they go in another direction.

I'm starting to wonder if Gute might be higher on Edgerrin Cooper than a lot of people are expecting. He drafted Quay Walker higher than a lot of people expected too.

[run pMc]

I'm not a fanboy, but I'd be okay with him at 25. But okay if they go in another direction.

I'm starting to wonder if Gute might be higher on Edgerrin Cooper than a lot of people are expecting. He drafted Quay Walker higher than a lot of people expected too.

Agree. I'm ok if they go with either Cooper: Dejean or Edgerrin. Seems like Cooper Dejean is a 50/50 shot to be gone by 25.

They brought EC in for a Top 30, and he fits their need and profile: young, athletic, etc. They need OL depth, but they have their likely starters under contract, so picking a LB at 25 is on the table for sure.
Personally, if they take EC I'd prefer they trade down and somewhere in the 30-35 range, or hope he falls to them at 41. I think 25 is a bit rich for E.Cooper, but by then all the true R1 prospects are likely to be gone.

I'm at the point where I'm 'BPA all the way'. Draft doesn't line up with their needs, so just pick the best players/talent. With all the picks they have, they should be able to fill the roster holes that way and then thru the 2nd wave of FA and cuts.

[bobblehead]

I'm not a fanboy, but I'd be okay with him at 25. But okay if they go in another direction.

I'm starting to wonder if Gute might be higher on Edgerrin Cooper than a lot of people are expecting. He drafted Quay Walker higher than a lot of people expected too.

Quay made sense in the end. He has special measurables. The way he moves for a guy his size...I just hope halfwit can get the most out of him.

I will say this about DeJean. If they draft him to play safety he could be the next Nick Collins. His size, tackling, speed and instinct all play well. I won't be upset if they pick him I guess, I just really want a dominant OL. The game is still won in the trenches unless you have Patrick Mahomes.

[run pMc]

top 30 visits: GB bringing in Kool-Aid and Jermaine Burton , who is a steal if he's there in R3. Very good athlete with production in SEC to back it up.

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/lists/tracking-packers-top-30-visits-ahead-of-2024-nfl-draft/?itm_source=parsely-api

packerswire's list is a little different from acmepackingco's. If they did bring in Trevin Wallace that would be an interesting late round ILB.

Omar Brown and Chris Edmonds are sneaky interesting as safety prospects, and Kiran Oladipo would be a large box safety.
I realize a lot of people like him, but Amarius Mims scares me. A lot of time as a backup or injured for such a highly touted prospect. Clearly a gifted athlete, but seems like dude gets hurt walking onto the field.

[call_me_ishmael]

My hot take - RAS focused too much on weight. That guy seems like a good agile athlete, but not particularly fast. How are they scoring off the charts in RAS?

[smuggler]

The thing that makes me not too too concerned about DeJean is that he breaks down and tackles so well. A lot of players with stiff hips, they can't really do that. Would we really cry with a possible Harrison Smith at 25?

[Frozen Tundra]

The thing that makes me not too too concerned about DeJean is that he breaks down and tackles so well. A lot of players with stiff hips, they can't really do that. Would we really cry with a possible Harrison Smith at 25?

Put another "Harry the Hitman" into the defensive backfield with Xavier McKinney, and I think we'd see a very different defense than we've seen in Green Bay in a hell of a long time.

[KYPack]

Yeah, Jalen Carter was involved in a car crash - basically he was drag racing with other UGA staff and plauers and the other car crashed and people died. He fled the scene but came back later.

I like T.Sweat's tape but he's not going to be a 3 down player and he's also not a great fit in Hafley's 4-3. That plus this latest dumbfuckery will drop him down boards, and word of him liking to party (He was arrested at 2pm in the afternoon on a Sunday) is a major red flag. Yeah, he's young and immature, but what happens when he gets a bag of money and is expected to be a pro? GB has a pretty full DL room now, but I could see them sneaky pick one late. Kenny Clark's contract is up and they might go younger there, but I'd rather keep Clark.
The Boyd kid from NIU was brought in for a top 30 visit, look for him to be a Day 3 prospect for GB.

If Sweat was there in R4 or 5 I'd think about it, but he'll be gone by then. When he's motivated and keeps his pad level low he is an absolute load and IOL will get bowled into the QB's lap. I saw it sometimes, but not enough. Kind of a shame, was enjoying the image of Garrett Bradbury trying to handle him and failing miserably.

He blew in the little machine at 330 AM. Ya know,. the cocktail hour. Maybe they booked him at 2pm, but the action took place in the early morning hours. The guy was faced.

[Fritz]

Put another "Harry the Hitman" into the defensive backfield with Xavier McKinney, and I think we'd see a very different defense than we've seen in Green Bay in a hell of a long time.

Harry the Hitman?

How about Harry "Son of Chuck" Cecil?

https://cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/gray/VZEMT3RRDZEEPCYZ3A4DMVA2RY.jpg

[bobblehead]

My hot take - RAS focused too much on weight. That guy seems like a good agile athlete, but not particularly fast. How are they scoring off the charts in RAS?

So your hot take is size doesn't matter?? Ok, I know you are saying it focuses too much on weight not that it doesn't matter. Personally I think it should focus on body composition. A big fat guy can't gain quality size at all. He can gain athleticism while maintaining size possibly, but he can't gain size for sure. A lean fit guy can gain size without sacrificing athleticism. Its definitely a balance and perhaps RAS does focus on weight too much. RAS is after all like any model...you get out of it what you set the parameters for the input.

[run pMc]

In 2016, Platte said that Size (height and weight) made up 20% of the score. Bench is another 10% of score.
https://www.prideofdetroit.com/2016/5/16/11678686/relative-athletic-scores-what-they-are-and-why-they-work

I think it's fair to look at size outliers and be wary.
Even with his size, bench and explosion numbers IDK how AJ Dillon was a 9.15 RAS. His 10 yard and agility numbers were not great. It's certainly possible there's some adjustments being made for size to those (41" vert is impressive no matter what, but especially at his weight) and it does feel a little distorted.

GB doesn't use RAS, but they have some similar measurement they use - I suspect it is tailored by position and puts higher importance on agility and explosion measurements.

All of that aside, I'll be captain obvious and say you have to go off film. Game tape and GPS tracking data from games (and practice) can reveal a lot about a player. Training for weeks to master combine drills can mask things tape can't. Tape tells you if you're a good player, drills tell if you're a good athlete. I also like the adage that you don't double-count combine drill performance in your grading - it should be evident on tape already. If it's not, go back and rewatch, and question why there's a difference.

[SudsMcBucky]

So your hot take is size doesn't matter??

Interesting......my wife has the exact same hot take.

[Fritz]

In 2016, Platte said that Size (height and weight) made up 20% of the score. Bench is another 10% of score.
https://www.prideofdetroit.com/2016/5/16/11678686/relative-athletic-scores-what-they-are-and-why-they-work

I think it's fair to look at size outliers and be wary.
Even with his size, bench and explosion numbers IDK how AJ Dillon was a 9.15 RAS. His 10 yard and agility numbers were not great. It's certainly possible there's some adjustments being made for size to those (41" vert is impressive no matter what, but especially at his weight) and it does feel a little distorted.

GB doesn't use RAS, but they have some similar measurement they use - I suspect it is tailored by position and puts higher importance on agility and explosion measurements.

All of that aside, I'll be captain obvious and say you have to go off film. Game tape and GPS tracking data from games (and practice) can reveal a lot about a player. Training for weeks to master combine drills can mask things tape can't. Tape tells you if you're a good player, drills tell if you're a good athlete. I also like the adage that you don't double-count combine drill performance in your grading - it should be evident on tape already. If it's not, go back and rewatch, and question why there's a difference.

My wife also put great emphasis on agility and explosion.

That's why she chose me.

[bobblehead]

In 2016, Platte said that Size (height and weight) made up 20% of the score. Bench is another 10% of score.
https://www.prideofdetroit.com/2016/5/16/11678686/relative-athletic-scores-what-they-are-and-why-they-work

I think it's fair to look at size outliers and be wary.
Even with his size, bench and explosion numbers IDK how AJ Dillon was a 9.15 RAS. His 10 yard and agility numbers were not great. It's certainly possible there's some adjustments being made for size to those (41" vert is impressive no matter what, but especially at his weight) and it does feel a little distorted.

GB doesn't use RAS, but they have some similar measurement they use - I suspect it is tailored by position and puts higher importance on agility and explosion measurements.

All of that aside, I'll be captain obvious and say you have to go off film. Game tape and GPS tracking data from games (and practice) can reveal a lot about a player. Training for weeks to master combine drills can mask things tape can't. Tape tells you if you're a good player, drills tell if you're a good athlete. I also like the adage that you don't double-count combine drill performance in your grading - it should be evident on tape already. If it's not, go back and rewatch, and question why there's a difference.

Different scores matter more for different positions. 3 cone is important for WR but not so much for a LB. 10 yard means a lot more for a RB than the raw 40.

[bobblehead]

My wife also put great emphasis on agility and explosion.

That's why she chose me.

My wife said its all about the girth. I put on 40 pounds and she had to tell me that wasn't what she meant. I feel shame.

[bobblehead]

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2024/04/12/packers-believe-zach-tom-has-hall-of-fame-potential-at-center/

"I was told by a couple of people within the organization, they think Zach Tom is a Pro Bowl right tackle, an All-Pro guard and a potential Hall of Fame center,” Demovsky said.

Sounds like me. I'm the insider. Now draft the tackle at 25.

[smuggler]

Tom at RT is also currently the best lineman on the team, so we'd need a pretty damn compelling reason to move him.

[Patler]

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2024/04/12/packers-believe-zach-tom-has-hall-of-fame-potential-at-center/

"I was told by a couple of people within the organization, they think Zach Tom is a Pro Bowl right tackle, an All-Pro guard and a potential Hall of Fame center,” Demovsky said.

Sounds like me. I'm the insider. Now draft the tackle at 25.


Didn't they say the same thing about Elgton Jenkins three years ago? He had played LT, LG, C and RT. Could be Pro-Bowl caliber anywhere, including LT, possibly All-Pro inside; but his best position would be Center.

I doubt they will weaken RT to improve at center. Tom's "HoF" career at center probably depends on the Packers drafting at least a Tauscher-level right tackle.

[Frozen Tundra]

Didn't they say the same thing about Elgton Jenkins three years ago? He had played LT, LG, C and RT. Could be Pro-Bowl caliber anywhere, including LT, possibly All-Pro inside; but his best position would be Center.

I doubt they will weaken RT to improve at center. Tom's "HoF" career at center probably depends on the Packers drafting at least a Tauscher-level right tackle.

It would take one hell of a player to replace Tom in his rookie year, so if they do plan to slide him inside, they're probably thinking 2025. Chances of replacing Tom this year at #25 are pretty remote. Every year he stays at RT, the better he's likely to get at it, and by 2025 he may be too good at tackle to risk replacing with a rookie or rotational player.

And by 2025, there may be other players on the roster who are ready to replace Myers. Tom wouldn't be the first offensive lineman to have a terrific career playing a position of need, even though he was more naturally suited for a diffferent spot on the line.

If I had to guess, I'd say that if they stand pat at #25, there's better than a 50-50 chance they'll go O-line. The value at offensive line in general (and especially tackle) is just too high this year, because the position is so heavily over-represented in this draft.

In 2020, the first round saw 5 tackles and 6 OL total. In 21, 4 tackles and 5 offensive linemen overall. 2022 - 5 OT out of 8 linemen total. In 2023, 5 offensive linemen, all tackles.

Last 5 years, anywhere from 5-8 offensive lineman going in Round 1 - 4 or 5 drafted as tackles each year.

This year, most projections see anywhere from 7-8 to as many as 10 offensive linemen likely going 1st round, almost all of them tackles (or at least, drafted as tackles).

It's really rare that any position group has such an abundance of talent clustered in the first couple dozen picks of the draft, and for a team that is drafting in the bottom of the round (and expecting to keep drafting in the bottom 15% or so for years to come), it's a rare opportunity to get a player at a crucial position who would probably go in the top half of the draft most seasons. At #25, we could quite possibly get a player who would have been gone by #12 or 15 in almost any other draft.

This is a luxury that most teams can not afford - the ability to prioritize hunting for bargains to bolster your roster, instead of filling immediate holes.... but a well-balanced team can. And the last couple of Gutenkunst's drafts have put us in a position where we can afford to manage our drafts that way.

[bobblehead]

Didn't they say the same thing about Elgton Jenkins three years ago? He had played LT, LG, C and RT. Could be Pro-Bowl caliber anywhere, including LT, possibly All-Pro inside; but his best position would be Center.

I doubt they will weaken RT to improve at center. Tom's "HoF" career at center probably depends on the Packers drafting at least a Tauscher-level right tackle.

They said similar things about Jenkins in so far as he could play anywhere, but Jenkins is much larger than Tom and I don't think he is "better" inside than out. He is good all the way across. Tom is built and moves more like a guard/center than a tackle. Jenkins did play LT successfully before his injury, and then wasn't quite up to playing RT so soon after it. Personally I think Tom is a really good tackle, but as I've said, he could be a top 3 guard in the entire league and he isn't even close to that as a tackle.

[Fritz]

I listened to a speculative podcast the other day about the Packers trading up. If they did, the after was of the opinion that the most likely position in which to do so was corner, and he focused on Arnold and Mitchell. Imagines one might still be there at 16.

[Joemailman]

Peter Bukowski
@Peter_Bukowski

In today’s
@TheLeapGB
we put together a roadmap for the Packers draft. Who are their types? Where are they projected? What does history tell us about where certain positions are best drafted? A clear path emerges.

https://www.theleap.football/p/putting-together-draft-roadmap-for

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