Serious Question: Love vs Clifford

[SkinBasket]

Since I’ve been labeled a “troll” for suggesting than this team would be better off with Clifford than Love, who has been served a starting job on a legendary team on a silver platter with every accoutrement available to him, what is the argument against such a move? I mean other than the team, and you lot of subservient hand job artists, admitting you were wrong to trust an obviously skillfully and mentally deficient person of half color to lead this team to a absurdly woeful record at this point? Please, I beg you, educate me. I humbly await your responses.

[sharpe1027]

Since I’ve been labeled a “troll” for suggesting than this team would be better off with Clifford than Love, who has been served a starting job on a legendary team on a silver platter with every accoutrement available to him, what is the argument against such a move? I mean other than the team, and you lot of subservient hand job artists, admitting you were wrong to trust an obviously skillfully and mentally deficient person of half color to lead this team to a absurdly woeful record at this point? Please, I beg you, educate me. I humbly await your responses.

Half color.

[Vincenzo]

Your approach here is 3 quarters just plain stupid, what did you do tonight, drink a gallon of whisky.
But apart from that, it’s too early to switch to Clifford.

The biggest concern now is Love’s stock has plummeted sharply over the past few weeks and this surely has us all concerned.
Keep it real here, pressing the panic button is premature at this point!

[bobblehead]

I would say that everything from a tool perspective suggests that Love will be a superior NFL quarterback compared to Clifford. Love is bigger, faster, stronger and has more arm talent. Other than that, I guess nothing. Not sure what more you want than that. Let me reverse it, and I'm being sincere. What is it about Clifford that makes you think that he would be better than Love?

Its really the same argument I would use if you asked why Clifford would be a better QB than you or I would be. I mean, come on, you can't come up with a tougher question than this??

Also, I'm not sure if I called you a troll. I don't mind this discussion and IF I did call you a troll it would simply be because of your obsession with this one issue. If you commented on every issue the team faces without obsessing on this ONE point, it would be beneficial. Its a fair discussion to have, but when you become a one note singer.....

[Vincenzo]

This could have been an interesting topic but it reeks of hardcore boozing, it’s just served up wrong.
The worst part is this: “mentally deficient person of half color to lead this team.”

Keep your racist BS to yourself, SkinBasket.

[texaspackerbacker]

It’s a nice question to have. Both are very decent. I fairly convinced that Love is gonna have a good career, maybe not Favre or Rodgers level but well above average for NFL starting QBs.

Clifford IMO showed enough that he is at very least a good backup and could be a quality starter if needed.

[run pMc]

This could have been an interesting topic but it reeks of hardcore boozing, it’s just served up wrong.
The worst part is this: “mentally deficient person of half color to lead this team.”

Keep your racist BS to yourself, SkinBasket.

Am also confused by the racist stuff. What does that have to do with Clifford vs. Love?
If you think Love is a turnover machine, Clifford is worse. Clifford might be more accurate, although not by much.

Stick with JLove. You have to ride him out all year to see if he's the guy (spoiler alert: probably not) but you also have to give hin a fair shot to develop or not...especially with the receiving corps youth he has to work with.

[MadScientist]

Unless he gets injured (always a possibility behind the sieve of an O-Line), he should be given the year to fully know if he is the guy or just a guy. A year on the pine won't hurt Clifford's development.

[RashanGary]

I would trade Love for two firsts and draft Caleb Williams. I don’t really like colored people, but Caleb seems like a good quarterback, so I’ll make an exception.

[Fritz]

Since I’ve been labeled a “troll” for suggesting than this team would be better off with Clifford than Love, who has been served a starting job on a legendary team on a silver platter with every accoutrement available to him, what is the argument against such a move? I mean other than the team, and you lot of subservient hand job artists, admitting you were wrong to trust an obviously skillfully and mentally deficient person of half color to lead this team to a absurdly woeful record at this point? Please, I beg you, educate me. I humbly await your responses.

A better question for next year might be "Penix versus Love."

Or if Hendon Hooker pans out in Detroit, "Hooker versus Love."

But "Clifford versus Love?" I dunno, man.

https://images.seattletimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/urn-publicid-ap-org-4982dc70922e55f0a97f1bab46298fbbTV_Clifford_Reboot _23048.jpg?d=768x514

[Bretsky]

I would trade Love for two firsts and draft Caleb Williams. I don’t really like colored people, but Caleb seems like a good quarterback, so I’ll make an exception.


IF GUTEBAG could get 2 first's for Love he would make the trade too

[Bretsky]

Does Love have better accuracy than Clifford ? That was the one piece out of Bobble's points that made me ponder

[MadtownPacker]

I would trade Love for two firsts and draft Caleb Williams. I don’t really like colored people, but Caleb seems like a good quarterback, so I’ll make an exception.
Dag nabbit Skinny, ignoring the pretend racism I was going to break it down and say you are starting to look like a prophet. But then this sick fuck agrees with you and there is no way I am joining any cult with his ass.

[run pMc]

Have a look:
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/jordan-love-2.html

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/sean-clifford-1.html

Clifford's career comp% is 61.4, Love's is 61.2. On the college level these days, that's not good enough to be considered accurate. (Clifford had Jahan Dotson and Parker Washington bailing him out too.)

For comparison: Caleb Williams is 67% for his career. Joe Burrow was 68.8. Bryce Young 65.8. CJ Stroud - 69.3. You get the idea.
I think you want a guy who is at least 65% for his career, and for it to be in something with at least some pro-concepts. Brian Brohm looked great (65.8) until you realized he was running a pop-gun/Air-Raid scheme.

[bobblehead]

Does Love have better accuracy than Clifford ? That was the one piece out of Bobble's points that made me ponder

Probably, but his lack of arm strength negates some of it. If you are on target but defenses have time to react it can fail just as badly as throwing it in the dirt. I see Clifford as a Chad Pennington/Matt Flynn type of guy.

[bobblehead]

Dag nabbit Skinny, ignoring the pretend racism I was going to break it down and say you are starting to look like a prophet. But then this sick fuck agrees with you and there is no way I am joining any cult with his ass.

I don't know that predicting failure for any QB who hasn't proven it on the field makes one a prophet. Stating the most likely outcome seems more accurate. I can predict right now that Caleb Jones will fail as a QB and certainly as a top 5 QB and I'm likely to be correct.

[RashanGary]

Dag nabbit Skinny, ignoring the pretend racism I was going to break it down and say you are starting to look like a prophet. But then this sick fuck agrees with you and there is no way I am joining any cult with his ass.

Mine was a joke :lol:

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Probably, but his lack of arm strength negates some of it. If you are on target but defenses have time to react it can fail just as badly as throwing it in the dirt. I see Clifford as a Chad Pennington/Matt Flynn type of guy.

Mr. Irrelevant (Pundy) and the Great Yellow Hope (Tua) both have a noodle arms, too. Ain’t seem like their lack of arm power is handicapping them too much.

[RashanGary]

Kurt Benkert, Curt Warner and JT O’Sullivan all break down QB play and say Love is in some bad situations with the young group and there’s not a lot he could have done better.

Skinbasket might end up totally wrong on this one.

[MadtownPacker]

Have a look:
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/jordan-love-2.html

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/sean-clifford-1.html

Clifford's career comp% is 61.4, Love's is 61.2. On the college level these days, that's not good enough to be considered accurate. (Clifford had Jahan Dotson and Parker Washington bailing him out too.)

For comparison: Caleb Williams is 67% for his career. Joe Burrow was 68.8. Bryce Young 65.8. CJ Stroud - 69.3. You get the idea.
I think you want a guy who is at least 65% for his career, and for it to be in something with at least some pro-concepts. Brian Brohm looked great (65.8) until you realized he was running a pop-gun/Air-Raid scheme.
Watching the Bills game and have to say Allen doesn’t look much better than Love. Just more arrogant at this point. While not a fair comparison due the first year versus fourth year it is for first starting year and his stats aren’t too hot. https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/josh-allen-rookie-stats

[MadtownPacker]

I don't know that predicting failure for any QB who hasn't proven it on the field makes one a prophet. Stating the most likely outcome seems more accurate. I can predict right now that Caleb Jones will fail as a QB and certainly as a top 5 QB and I'm likely to be correct.
Obviously feeling dissedthat SB is smarter than you as he PROPHESIED!!!

[bobblehead]

Obviously feeling dissedthat SB is smarter than you as he PROPHESIED!!!

Clearly thats it.

[Fritz]

I'm not so worried about the decision-making at this point. If you really are serious about considering that, you realize that there is so, so much information to process in milliseconds, that it would naturally take time and experience to get that part. I think Love can get there.

The accuracy bothers me, though. He just is off so much with his throws. Too much air under the ball, not enough air under the ball, underthrows Watson, overthrows Deguara. A little spooky.

[bobblehead]

I'm not so worried about the decision-making at this point. If you really are serious about considering that, you realize that there is so, so much information to process in milliseconds, that it would naturally take time and experience to get that part. I think Love can get there.

The accuracy bothers me, though. He just is off so much with his throws. Too much air under the ball, not enough air under the ball, underthrows Watson, overthrows Deguara. A little spooky.

As guys like Kurt Warner have pointed out....he isn't being given a lot to work with. We need to see the OL play better. Get a run game working. As long as he puts games like weeks 1 and 2 on tape while the team gains experience I have hope that you can win with him. If we give him a record deal like the Cowboys gave Prescott at the time you will be challenged to surround him with the necessary talent. Same as the Rams did with Goff. Those are 2 examples of guys who got max QB deals and the team suffered very soon after.

[run pMc]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOxzPmgg-zM

There's lot of film and armchair QBs out there. I think Love has an accuracy issue but also is a little jumpy to climb the pocket and doing a few other things he can improve. He has a tendency to put a little too much air under the ball and underthrow it, which he should never do with Watson. Just chuck it and let that 4.3 speed catch up to it.

The execution of the young receivers is hampering some of the evaluation, as is the OL playing poorly. There are a lot of breakdowns happening around him which will buy him some time. I'm starting to think they need to sit Rasheed Walker for a couple of games to watch Njiman play before trying him again, and I think they need to get healthy. All the leg injuries this team has aren't helping. That aside, they just gotta play better. It's blocking and tackling.

[MadtownPacker]

Clearly thats it.
Man I was just trying to give him a little scratch like the dog he is. If I was going to pick any Why guy here to work for it would be you or maybe Rastak. But that would be so I could do fuck up shit to his purple lovin ass.

[SkinBasket]

Can’t say nothing without being called a racist these days. If you ignore a persons color you’re a racist. If you point out a persons color, you’re a racist. You must all be old people, cuz the kids don’t care no more. Anyway, I’m glad Love vindicated ya’ll today.

As far as what I like better about Clifford, I think I’ve made that pretty clear, but A number 1 is his confidence, followed by his decisiveness, most likely born from said confidence, and finally his gravitas which stands in stark comparison to Love’s flower wallpaper routine. So suck it. He can’t be much worse results wise at this point.

[MadtownPacker]

Wouldn’t have had issue with putting him today. Starting to worry I will hate you more for being right.

[Fritz]

Can’t say nothing without being called a racist these days. If you ignore a persons color you’re a racist. If you point out a persons color, you’re a racist. You must all be old people, cuz the kids don’t care no more. Anyway, I’m glad Love vindicated ya’ll today.

As far as what I like better about Clifford, I think I’ve made that pretty clear, but A number 1 is his confidence, followed by his decisiveness, most likely born from said confidence, and finally his gravitas which stands in stark comparison to Love’s flower wallpaper routine. So suck it. He can’t be much worse results wise at this point.

I’m confident. I’m decisive. But I would be a shitty QB. You need those qualities, but those ain’t enough, Skinny. Love was not the problem today. It was his shitty offensive line, his receivers dropping balls, and his coach calling a shitty game.

[Fosco33]

I’m not concerned about Love yet.

[Vincenzo]

I’m confident. I’m decisive. But I would be a shitty QB. You need those qualities, but those ain’t enough, Skinny. Love was not the problem today. It was his shitty offensive line, his receivers dropping balls, and his coach calling a shitty game.
He’s not exactly accurate tho. How many passes came up short, how many flew long. Yes he had way too many balls droped that were certainly catchable but overall he didn’t have a great day.

[SkinBasket]

I’m confident. I’m decisive… You need those qualities

Sorry for parsing you, but that is my main point. Yes, you NEED those qualities, as an NFL QB, and whatever you think of Clifford’s other abilities, Love has thoroughly demonstrated he does not have them. As such, time to move on. But management won’t because that would be admitting failure, especially in light of moving on from 12, regardless of what he had left to offer. I just want to be able to watch someone who wants to win, and can accept watching someone fail at that. I refuse to watch someone (Love) who does not have that built into who he is. He is not a winner. He is along for the ride. He is a weed in the wind. He has been handed everything and given nothing. He is dead to me.

[smuggler]

Clifford has a noodle arm, but Love is clumsy and never actually uses his arm.

[run pMc]

Accuracy issues aside, there were things in preseason and earlier in regular season you liked: the poise, the decision making. That has started to go out window. He looks rattled and has started to make more bad decisions. That tells me he doesn't trust his receivers or his OL, and I don't blame him.
Even so, he's got to do better, but I think they have bigger problems tbh. This OL was supposed to be a strength, and the running game was supposed to help him out in his first year. That has not happened, and it's crazy to think it's because the starting LT is on IR. Who knows - SF sure misses Trent Williams.

Injuries have hit the OL hard - I think Jenkins is still fighting thru the knee injury, and Myers and Runyan have been pedestrian this year. They can pass block most of the time but their run blocking has not been good. And Walker has regressed, and Njiman had a bad camp. Usually an OL that has played together the previous year will come out and play well the next, that's not happened and it's hurt the offense considerably. Penalties too. That's not on Jordan Love's fault.

I suppose I sound like I'm defending him -- I'm not on his bandwagon -- but really I'm pointing out that he's a part of the problem, not the entire problem. You could put any QB back there and they'd struggle with that OL and rookie receivers dropping throws and running bad routes. I think with Mahomes back there they'd be a maybe a 4 win team on this schedule.

[King Friday]

I agree that you can’t make a true judgment call on Love at this point. He’s not trending in a great direction, but he’s had a boatload of headwinds throws his way in his first year as a starter. Everyone will compare Love to Rodgers in their first year, but the Packer OL of 2008 was better than our current OL. Gute has proven to be extremely poor at identifying OL talent. He’s hit on one guy, and missed badly on nearly everyone else. In other words, any of us could draft OL talent better. He needs to be asked about it and he needs to be held accountable for how he improves on that. Until he does, it doesn’t matter who our QB is. You can’t have a line that is mediocre in blocking and gets called for holding or being downfield every other possession.

[bobblehead]

Can’t say nothing without being called a racist these days. If you ignore a persons color you’re a racist. If you point out a persons color, you’re a racist. You must all be old people, cuz the kids don’t care no more. Anyway, I’m glad Love vindicated ya’ll today.

As far as what I like better about Clifford, I think I’ve made that pretty clear, but A number 1 is his confidence, followed by his decisiveness, most likely born from said confidence, and finally his gravitas which stands in stark comparison to Love’s flower wallpaper routine. So suck it. He can’t be much worse results wise at this point.

Fair, even if it took a week to get a response. Confidence only takes you so far. I won't go political, but I can give many examples of baseless confidence and it rarely ends well.

And again, I don't mind you pointing out Love isn't playing well, or saying you don't think he ever will, I just wish you would contribute anything else to the general packers forum. However, if you're down to a couple posts a week about it, its not trolling either.

[bobblehead]

I’m confident. I’m decisive. But I would be a shitty QB. You need those qualities, but those ain’t enough, Skinny. Love was not the problem today. It was his shitty offensive line, his receivers dropping balls, and his coach calling a shitty game.

As I've said many times, its symbiotic. Love isn't helping his own cause either. Of course we started last season this way and Rodgers didn't look a hell of a lot better, but he was better. Love has to take some of the responsibility, but all of it would be ridiculous. I don't think this team would be good no matter who our QB was.

[bobblehead]

Sorry for parsing you, but that is my main point. Yes, you NEED those qualities, as an NFL QB, and whatever you think of Clifford’s other abilities, Love has thoroughly demonstrated he does not have them. As such, time to move on. But management won’t because that would be admitting failure, especially in light of moving on from 12, regardless of what he had left to offer. I just want to be able to watch someone who wants to win, and can accept watching someone fail at that. I refuse to watch someone (Love) who does not have that built into who he is. He is not a winner. He is along for the ride. He is a weed in the wind. He has been handed everything and given nothing. He is dead to me.

You could be right or you could be misreading him. Montana often looked like he didn't have that fire either. Since he was winning it was "inner calmness". Since Love is losing its that he "doesn't want to win". Other than saying he won't be Maholmes or prime Rodgers I think the book is still open on Love. He may well wash out, but I am still going with David Carr, Jimmy G, Joe Flacco type career. A guy you can win with until you pay him too much. However, if you surround him with talent and he signs a 5 year $120 million deal you can probably take a couple shots at an Owl. Problem is that they will either cut him or give him 4 years $170 million after next year. Thats what teams do. The Ravens paid Lamaar like a top 5 QB. The cowboys paid Dak like a top 5 QB. I could go on and on about paying guys big contracts and then not being able to field enough talent around them.

[texaspackerbacker]

I’ve seen the good judgment I’d expect from Love after backing up Rodgers. I see way more mobility than I expected from him. I don’t see clumsiness, just a lot of throwing off platform same as Rodgers and Favre and Mahomes - and that’s a good thing. Yeah there is occasional inaccuracy but not as much critics think.

I have a high opinion of Clifford also - a very capable backup and a bargain of a pick.

[Fosco33]

Goot basically said he’s got 10 games to prove he can start in the league.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/38794373/packers-gm-unsure-jordan-love-long-term-future-franchise?platform=amp

[run pMc]

From that ESPN article:

Love ranks last in completion rate (57.7%) among the 32 qualifying quarterbacks, just behind the Jets' Zach Wilson (58.3%). The Packers rank 25th in total yards per game and 21st in passing yards per game.

Not exactly where you want him to be. I think the OL and receivers and lack of a running game all have made the evaluation of Love a little tougher to make, but I'm fine with them giving him the entire season to figure it out. I expect them to give him time next year too. Even if they somehow drafted Drake Maye I'd expect Love to be the starter on Day 1 of training camp.

His accuracy is not great but with a good enough supporting cast he's talented enough to win some games. That supporting cast has not been there this season. You could say the strengths of the offense (OL, RBs, an expected Watson/Doubs year 2 leap, MLF's scheme) have evaporated.

As for Clifford, I think he's a fine guy to have on the QB room and clipboard holder, but I don't want him playing meaningful snaps this year. I don't think he's an upgrade over Love, and I'm not even sure there's that much upside to him. I think he could get you out of a game with a lead, but I don't think he's going to win you games as a starter or get you to playoff contention given a half season of starts. Not unless you give him Deebo, Chase, and Bijon.

[RashanGary]

If we drafted Drake Maye, I think Love would start the first half of the season, but you’d want to see Maye play before you decide to let Love go.

[bobblehead]

Goot basically said he’s got 10 games to prove he can start in the league.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/38794373/packers-gm-unsure-jordan-love-long-term-future-franchise?platform=amp

"When the group as a whole is not functioning the way it should function, then it's hard to evaluate anybody," Gutekunst said.

This is similar to what I keep saying about it being symbiotic. When one starts playing better it has a domino effect. Its the reason you see guys who look damn good playing for X sign a free agency contract with Y and shit the bed. Some people are products of their environment, and some people impose their will on their environment. We need more of the latter.

[Fosco33]

I’m w/ you Bobble. Too early to throw in the towel

[Bretsky]

Of course it's too early.

With that being said, I don't see hope that the Luv Machine reaches the elite status you want in a high priced QB; using a 1st and a 4th on Love looks bad right now, and using two 2nd round draft picks for Watson looks bad as well for Gutebag

[sharpe1027]

Love is a late first round pick. You don't expect to have great QBs that late. It's what you hope for, but you know they have limitations if they make it that far down.

[Fritz]

I’m not concerned about Love yet.

I’m not concerned about Love at all. I just want to get laid.

[Fosco33]

I’m not concerned about Love at all. I just want to get laid.

There’s apps for that - and pills

[bobblehead]

Of course it's too early.

With that being said, I don't see hope that the Luv Machine reaches the elite status you want in a high priced QB; using a 1st and a 4th on Love looks bad right now, and using two 2nd round draft picks for Watson looks bad as well for Gutebag

I disagree on Watson. I think he still has a legit chance at becoming a top 5 NFL WR. Love, like any QB is unlikely to become "elite". I still think you can win with him, he just won't carry us.

[run pMc]

I don't think Love or Watson are busts, and I agree it's too early to make such declarations.

[Bretsky]

I disagree on Watson. I think he still has a legit chance at becoming a top 5 NFL WR. Love, like any QB is unlikely to become "elite". I still think you can win with him, he just won't carry us.


Top 5 ? I don't see it.

He's no Greg Jennings as a route runner. So fast, yet sloppy so far

[Bretsky]

Love is a late first round pick. You don't expect to have great QBs that late. It's what you hope for, but you know they have limitations if they make it that far down.


LOVE, or LEVIS (round 2)

[bobblehead]

LOVE, or LEVIS (round 2)

Levis may end up being similar for a better value based on draft capital, but I don't see him becoming a top 10 QB either. Again, too early to definitively state that either can't ascend, but certain things don't seem to be there....of course for Rodgers first 2 years I said he doesn't process game information fast enough to be elite, so what do I know.

[run pMc]

Levis has played like 2 games, way too early to say anything. Once teams get film on him they will scheme him up, just like teams have with Love.
He was talked about by the media as a potential top 10 pick and teams passed repeatedly on him and he lasted to Day 2. That tells you something about what teams thought, and last year's QB class wasn't as good as this upcoming one.

Levis does seem to have better touch than Love on deep throws, but I think he's a risky gunslinger type like Jordan Love. They are pretty similar players, but I think Levis has better accuracy.
I'm not sure how well he processes but he's got a cannon arm. Would be interested to see what Levis in Year 2 will look like.

[Bretsky]

Levis may end up being similar for a better value based on draft capital, but I don't see him becoming a top 10 QB either. Again, too early to definitively state that either can't ascend, but certain things don't seem to be there....of course for Rodgers first 2 years I said he doesn't process game information fast enough to be elite, so what do I know.


It's in interesting comparison for those who defend Love by saying he's not a top 10 pick. I don't embrace that logic. If Gute was willing to trade a 1st and a 4th to get Love I think his expectation would be he could be at least near Elite.

When I watched Levis last night I thought he was pretty accurate and slinged the ball around with very little effort. I could see him being in the top 10 "ish" range.

I would take him over Love w/o any hesitation right now.

Love has also had a few years to practice for this year; he just doesn't seem accurate

[bobblehead]

It's in interesting comparison for those who defend Love by saying he's not a top 10 pick. I don't embrace that logic. If Gute was willing to trade a 1st and a 4th to get Love I think his expectation would be he could be at least near Elite.

When I watched Levis last night I thought he was pretty accurate and slinged the ball around with very little effort. I could see him being in the top 10 "ish" range.

I would take him over Love w/o any hesitation right now.

Love has also had a few years to practice for this year; he just doesn't seem accurate

Mostly agree. Gutes made that trade because HE thought Love should have been a top 10 pick.

[Bretsky]

Mostly agree. Gutes made that trade because HE thought Love should have been a top 10 pick.



1000% agree; winner post. And that is how we should be measuring that decision by.

He's squirmed back under the rock on this but I get a kick out of Mel Kiper still pointing this out. THose guys love to be right and point out when the other is wrong.

Todd McShay had love rated higher then Justin Hebert that year and noted some of the scouts out there did as well. Guessing Gutebag was one of them.

[run pMc]

I think Herbert is overrated, but I'd have taken Herbert over Love then and I would now.

For those who think Clifford should play instead of Love, consider how the Rams offense looked with Rypien. I'm fairly confident that Clifford would play about that poorly as the starter.
You absolutely want Jordan Love to play as many games as possible this season to get a full evaluation. Right now he looks pretty meh to me, but based on preseason he's clearly better than Clifford. Clifford's ceiling might be Taylor Heinecke, and that's fine for a backup but not as a starter.

[bobblehead]

Top 5 ? I don't see it.

He's no Greg Jennings as a route runner. So fast, yet sloppy so far

You can improve route running, but you can't learn to be the fastest guy in the NFL (or right up there). You can't learn to be 6'4" but you can add muscle. I have seen him flat out bust angles 3 times in something like 15 games he has played now. If things around him improve, that kind of elite athleticism always has a shot.

[SkinBasket]

Man alive. We won! Seriously not trying to be a stick in the mud about it, but again the QB play was bad. The first half could have put Richard Simmons in a coma for how fucking boring this offense is. But I guess that’s what you get when your QB can’t hit the broad side of a barn at 25 yards. And I guess Love got the white genes on his legs? The guy can’t even create space in the pocket much less worry anyone about headed downfield. That was one the fun parts about Rodgers taking over… you were reminded young QBs can run. I guess Love sucks at that too. So he’s got black guy accuracy and white guy speed. Awesome. At least the defense looked good playing a bunch of tards. By tards I mean retards for you city folk.

[run pMc]

Disclaimer: I'm not on the Jordan Love bandwagon. Lots of room for improvement, but this was encouraging.

Jordan Love’s 2nd Half vs Rams
12/13 Cmp/Att
1 TD | 0 Ints
160 Yds | 12.3 Y/A
143.6 Pass Rtg
0.488 EPA/play

https://twitter.com/IsiahLimo/status/1721338813954347083

[MadScientist]

Disclaimer: I'm not on the Jordan Love bandwagon. Lots of room for improvement, but this was encouraging.

Jordan Love’s 2nd Half vs Rams
12/13 Cmp/Att
1 TD | 0 Ints
160 Yds | 12.3 Y/A
143.6 Pass Rtg
0.488 EPA/play

https://twitter.com/IsiahLimo/status/1721338813954347083

Now if the offense can only look decent in the first half for a change.

[bobblehead]

Disclaimer: I'm not on the Jordan Love bandwagon. Lots of room for improvement, but this was encouraging.

Jordan Love’s 2nd Half vs Rams
12/13 Cmp/Att
1 TD | 0 Ints
160 Yds | 12.3 Y/A
143.6 Pass Rtg
0.488 EPA/play

https://twitter.com/IsiahLimo/status/1721338813954347083

Amazing what a running game can do for a guy. We wore them down and put them away. They are bad. We aren't good. Love did what he needed to do. Lets see what happens in Pittsburg when Joe Barry can shine against a team with a bad QB, but all sorts of weapons.

[run pMc]

Amazing what a running game can do for a guy. We wore them down and put them away. They are bad. We aren't good. Love did what he needed to do. Lets see what happens in Pittsburg when Joe Barry can shine against a team with a bad QB, but all sorts of weapons.

If you think about it, the Rams trotted out a bad QB with a few good weapons (Kupp, Nacua). Their defense wasn't without its stars -- they aren't what they were a few years ago, but they still had Aaron Donald and a few other good players. (I'd trust Raheem Morris as a DC more than Joe Barry)
I do think PIT will be a tough game for GB - on the road, and their defense is good. You have to assume GB is the underdog is every game except for CAR, NYG, and probably CHI going forward.

GB is not a good team right now, it was nice to see them get a win though. It remains to be seen if they become a better team and more competitive as the season goes on. That would signal the player development we're waiting for.

[Sparkey]

You could see signs of an emerging offense. Nijman played well and then when he left with an injury, Walker looked much more focused and aggressive run blocking.

I'd like to see the non action penalties cut down. False starts, offsides (both very questionable calls) and the delay are killers that are really inexcusable. They definitely came out more aggressive this game on offense.

[Joemailman]

You could see signs of an emerging offense. Nijman played well and then when he left with an injury, Walker looked much more focused and aggressive run blocking.

I'd like to see the non action penalties cut down. False starts, offsides (both very questionable calls) and the delay are killers that are really inexcusable. They definitely came out more aggressive this game on offense.

They were close to taking a real step on offense Sunday. 2 penalties on successful 4th down attempts and 2 fumbles at the end of successful plays got in the way.

[QBME]

Don't know where exactly to post this.
Once again we have the youngest team.
Learning every rep, every game.
Are we going to make post season? Fuck no.
I'm a wait and see kind of guy.
Dont know shit from x's and o's.
But from what I hear a premier key is give the kid a bit of time, let the game slow down.
So, less than a half season....let's see how it plays out
I (in all my football ignorance) believe J Love is going to find it

[bobblehead]

If you think about it, the Rams trotted out a bad QB with a few good weapons (Kupp, Nacua). Their defense wasn't without its stars -- they aren't what they were a few years ago, but they still had Aaron Donald and a few other good players. (I'd trust Raheem Morris as a DC more than Joe Barry)
I do think PIT will be a tough game for GB - on the road, and their defense is good. You have to assume GB is the underdog is every game except for CAR, NYG, and probably CHI going forward.

GB is not a good team right now, it was nice to see them get a win though. It remains to be seen if they become a better team and more competitive as the season goes on. That would signal the player development we're waiting for.

Agreed, but Rypien was on a different level of bad than the Pitt guy.

Also, Cliff Christl assures me that its all about the starts and the rest don't really matter. I used go submit questions, and insist that, while that is true with elite QBs, every other "star" can be schemed around if you don't have enough talent around him. Cliff is a widely recognized writer. I'm just a humble fan.

[Bretsky]

You can improve route running, but you can't learn to be the fastest guy in the NFL (or right up there). You can't learn to be 6'4" but you can add muscle. I have seen him flat out bust angles 3 times in something like 15 games he has played now. If things around him improve, that kind of elite athleticism always has a shot.

completely agree; the potential is undoubtedly there.

[SkinBasket]

Well, we found something he’s consistent about.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Well, we found something he’s consistent about.

Throwing picks in the clutch?

[SkinBasket]

I thought that was kinda self explanatory

[MadtownPacker]

You found your first disciple!! :lol: Be careful that one might sell you out for some silver.

[texaspackerbacker]

Throwing picks in the clutch?

The first one was clearly pass interference as well as the bad luck of a deflection. The second one was a desperation heave as time ran out. Yeah, I suppose Rodgers woulda done better, although under the circumstances, it's hard to imagine how. Clifford? I like him as a back up QB, but no way he's as good as Love.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

The first one was clearly pass interference as well as the bad luck of a deflection. The second one was a desperation heave as time ran out. Yeah, I suppose Rodgers woulda done better, although under the circumstances, it's hard to imagine how. Clifford? I like him as a back up QB, but no way he's as good as Love.

How good is Love anyway? He’s probably right up there with Mac Jones. And Jones got benched for the third time this season on Sunday.

The Watson picks are dumb. Watson was doubled on the first; shoulda targeted someone else, preferably Doubs. 2nd one, Frog shoulda called a “hook and ladder” but that was the dumbest Hail Mary I’ve ever seen in my life. Hail Marys are supposed to be prayers, not gimme picks.

[run pMc]

Which would you rather have - Love or Pickett?

The two INTs were desperation type of throws - the first one was a good play by the defense. The second one might have been avoided had Jones not stayed in bounds.
Half of Love's INTs have been on throws to Watson. I agree he should have looked elsewhere. He has moments where it looks like he's trying to score 21 points on one pass play, and hopefully he outgrows that fast. Going back to college, you just have to know the way he plays is going to involve more picks than Rodgers. That would actually apply to any QB, since Rodgers has the lowest INT% ever.

I don't think Love had a great game, but it wasn't bad for a first year starter, either. I think it makes more sense to pile on the run defense, honestly.

[Fritz]

In my saner moments, I realize we've got to give Love through the end of this year, at least, and Twatson through the end of next year before we can make any reasonable judgements.

But that's when I'm sane. At other moments, I say fuggem. Cuz I'm a fan and I can "demand" better, as if somehow I "deserve" better.

So let's give these two guys some time. It's almost rocket science, what they're trying to do out there. Make split-second decisions that are the right ones, and perform superhuman physical feats at the same time.

[Spaulding]

Broken record here but in the grand scheme of things Love is NOT the problem. Defense still sucks (Barry must have something on LeFluer to still be employed), wide receivers aren't helping him with alligator arms and wrong routes and the line has been mostly a sieve this year compared to prior years.

Love is not without his blame but given the chaos around him it's not surprising to see his first year starting being a mixed bag. Next year without Rodgers dead money and cutting Bak along with substantial draft capital should allow Gute to surround him with better talent. Combine that with another year's worth of experience with the greenhorn receiving corp should allow a proper evaluation of his ability to lead the team to the playoffs in future years.

Clifford is a career backup at best, that's his ceiling. Right or wrong, Love's is higher and we just need to give him a chance before we cancel the show and reboot.

[texaspackerbacker]

Good Post, Spaulding - saved me saying a lot of that.

Love or Pickett? Love every day of the week and twice on Sunday ....... oh yeah, and I like our QB too hahahaha.

[MadtownPacker]

In spite of APB applying to be skinbasket’s lackey I haven’t felt this good about Love since early in the season. He played good enough. Not great because that would require getting the win. The kind of loss I was hoping for would be accurate. The team gained experience and all the tank embracing peons are happy.

[Fritz]

I've been wondering what a "good" loss looks like - and now I have an answer.

If Love can improve on his accuracy over the course of the season, and if Watson improves, those two pieces would be huge. Then maybe give Sean Rhyan a shot at right guard, and if he shows he can be an NFL starter, you've got some important answers going into the draft regarding what you do and may not need.

I know I've read the Packers seem to think center is Tom's best position. I wonder if there's any consideration of letting Myers depart (is he in the last year of his rookie deal? Or coming up on it?) in some manner - a trade for a seventh round choice or something? Then draft two or three offensive tackles. But that may be dumb if Myers is actually playing well, as the coaches keep claiming.

I wonder now too what the offseason holds for guys like Preston Smith and Devondre Campbell, and even maybe Jaire. Though it would seem crazy to trade him - I think his contract is very doable for the team, and yes, he's been hurt, but when he plays he's pretty damn good. Contrast that with Eric Stokes, who started well, then did not play well at the beginning of his second season, and then got hurt and hurt. Not sure what there is to build on there - his play was already nosediving before he was injured. Plus, you're going to need to draft about thirteen safeties anyway, so why add to the DB need in the draft?

[Bretsky]

A good Loss

Seeing more hope for Jordan Love with some faith maybe he can be a top 10 QB
Seeing the WR's grow
Seeing the young defenders grow so we have hope going forward
Seeing more light from the offensive line

And a loss to improve our draft position

[bobblehead]

A good loss:

Individual defensive players do what is asked of them, but the defense underperforms so we can fire Joe Barry.

[Fritz]

I don't think tanking is a strategy - even in the NBA, there are no guarantees that it will work out. What team tanked a couple years ago - New Orleans? - to get some supposed sure-fire stud, and he's been hurt and whiny. So that's in a sport with only five starters.

Tanking can't be done in the NFL - it's too much of a short-term league. Look at the Jest - Saleh is trying like hell to hang on to his job until next year when Rodgers comes back, but there's no patience for him to keep trotting Zack
Wilson out there - even if it gets them some high draft pick. And that's a nasty defense already.

[bobblehead]

I agree fritz. Tanking is kinda silly. Can't miss guys miss all the time in the NFL. Guys you never heard of from the 5th round turn into ballers. Scout well, pick well, teach well.

[call_me_ishmael]

I totally disagree. You're pretty unlikely to win a super bowl without a star QB and you're unlikely to get a premier one unless you're picking at the top. Yeah, yeah, I know, Mahomes, Rodgers, and Brady disagree. I still think picking #1 is the best chance at getting the next one of those dudes, you just have to scout well and get lucky on the year that your team sucks.

You want Andy Luck or Joe Burrow, not Jared Goff or Kyler Murray or Baker Mayfield or Jameis Winston or Cam Newton or Sam Bradford or Alex Smith, so tanking in the right year is really important and frankly lucky since Joe Burrow wasn't Joe Burrow until he was Joe Burrow.

[texaspackerbacker]

I hope you know, your examples, both the good ones and the mediocre ones, almost without exception, completely undermine your assertion: "You're pretty unlikely to win a super bowl without a star QB and you're unlikely to get a premier one unless you're picking at the top."

[call_me_ishmael]

I hope you know, your examples, both the good ones and the mediocre ones, almost without exception, completely undermine your assertion: "You're pretty unlikely to win a super bowl without a star QB and you're unlikely to get a premier one unless you're picking at the top."

You're not guaranteed to get a star when tanking. But you've at least got a shot one every few years. Getting a Brady or Rodgers or Mahomes is a total crap shoot and complete luck. There is at least some science to tanking.

[texaspackerbacker]

Odds of a random top 5 pick becoming Rodgers or Brady level (Mahomes has to wear that underwear a few more years before he's in that category) are about the same IMO as the odds of Jordan Love rising to that level.

[Joemailman]

Foe the record, Mahomes wasn't a top 5 pick. He was the 10th pick in the 2017 draft. And the Chiefs didn't tank to get that pick. The Chiefs were 12-4 in 2016 and traded up from the 27th spot to the 10th spot to draft him.

[call_me_ishmael]

Odds of a random top 5 pick becoming Rodgers or Brady level (Mahomes has to wear that underwear a few more years before he's in that category) are about the same IMO as the odds of Jordan Love rising to that level.

Not top 5, top 1. I think you are dramatically more likely to get a superstar at QB picking #1 than getting lucky and landing someone elsewhere in the draft. Obviously - because if you're picking #1 you can take the best player that if you're not picking #1 is out of your control.

Thus - tanking works but you need to pick your year. If you have a chance to get Andrew Luck you tank obviously. You have a chance to get a generational prospect, you do it. You see Peyton right there in the draft, you absolutely tank for him.

[Joemailman]

Tanking to get a top 5 pick for a QB hasn't worked for a decade. The last team to win a Super Bowl with a top 5 pick that they drafted at QB was the Giants with Eli Manning when they won in 2011. Since then it's been:

Ravens - Joe Flacco - 18th pick
Seahawks - Russell Wilson - 3rd round pick
Patriots - Tom Brady - 6th round pick
Broncos - Peyton Manning - Signed as free agent
Patriots - Tom Brady - 6th round pick
Eagles - Nick Foles - 3rd round pick
Patriots - Tom Brady - 6th round pick
Chiefs - Patrick Mahomes - trade up for 10th overall pick
Buccaneers - Tom Brady - signed as free agent
Rams -Matt Stafford - Traded for him
Chiefs - Patrick Mahomes - trade up for 10th overall pick

[run pMc]

A GM might trade players away to speed up a rebuild, and you can consider than tanking, sure. That's on the GM/Front Office side.
On the coaching/players side tanking does not happen in the NFL. Those guys have careers and pride at stake. Ask Lovie Smith and the Texans last year.

Brian Flores' accusations of tanking coming from the owner/GM may be true, but he pushed back on those, privately and publicly. Coaches who finish a season with a bad record to pick Top 5 rarely survive to coach the same team the following season. Many of the players get swept away with that new coaching regime, etc. They want to keep their jobs, they aren't tanking.

[texaspackerbacker]

Not top 5, top 1. I think you are dramatically more likely to get a superstar at QB picking #1 than getting lucky and landing someone elsewhere in the draft. Obviously - because if you're picking #1 you can take the best player that if you're not picking #1 is out of your control.

Thus - tanking works but you need to pick your year. If you have a chance to get Andrew Luck you tank obviously. You have a chance to get a generational prospect, you do it. You see Peyton right there in the draft, you absolutely tank for him.

The first "Top 1" QB pick that comes to mind is Alex Smith. Undoubtedly there have been others. Which do you have in mind as "Brady/Rodgers/Mahomes level"?

Yeah, if a person could see the future, he'd draft Peyton Manning. Luck definitely not. Even in that weird circumstance, slam dunk sure to get the next Peyton Manning, I'd say hell no to tanking, and I'm pretty sure the Packer organization would to.

[call_me_ishmael]

Tanking to get a top 5 pick for a QB hasn't worked for a decade. The last team to win a Super Bowl with a top 5 pick that they drafted at QB was the Giants with Eli Manning when they won in 2011. Since then it's been:

Ravens - Joe Flacco - 18th pick
Seahawks - Russell Wilson - 3rd round pick
Patriots - Tom Brady - 6th round pick
Broncos - Peyton Manning - Signed as free agent
Patriots - Tom Brady - 6th round pick
Eagles - Nick Foles - 3rd round pick
Patriots - Tom Brady - 6th round pick
Chiefs - Patrick Mahomes - trade up for 10th overall pick
Buccaneers - Tom Brady - signed as free agent
Rams -Matt Stafford - Traded for him
Chiefs - Patrick Mahomes - trade up for 10th overall pick

To be fair the main guy who would have won one retired in his prime.

[Joemailman]

To be fair the main guy who would have won one retired in his prime.

To be fair that is highly debatable. He had a 73.4 passer rating in 8 playoff games with 12 TD passes and 13 INT's.

[ThunderDan]

A GM might trade players away to speed up a rebuild, and you can consider than tanking, sure. That's on the GM/Front Office side.
On the coaching/players side tanking does not happen in the NFL. Those guys have careers and pride at stake. Ask Lovie Smith and the Texans last year.

Brian Flores' accusations of tanking coming from the owner/GM may be true, but he pushed back on those, privately and publicly. Coaches who finish a season with a bad record to pick Top 5 rarely survive to coach the same team the following season. Many of the players get swept away with that new coaching regime, etc. They want to keep their jobs, they aren't tanking.

Pat Kirwan, on NFL radio, pointed out that coaches that don’t win at least 5 games get fired. It was something in the 80% range or there about. About the only coaches that don’t, are first year coaches.

[Vincenzo]

I need a hero
I'm holding out for a hero 'til the end of the night
He's gotta be strong
And he's gotta be fast
And he's gotta be fresh from the fight
I need a hero

[Bretsky]

I've been wondering what a "good" loss looks like - and now I have an answer.

If Love can improve on his accuracy over the course of the season, and if Watson improves, those two pieces would be huge. Then maybe give Sean Rhyan a shot at right guard, and if he shows he can be an NFL starter, you've got some important answers going into the draft regarding what you do and may not need.

I know I've read the Packers seem to think center is Tom's best position. I wonder if there's any consideration of letting Myers depart (is he in the last year of his rookie deal? Or coming up on it?) in some manner - a trade for a seventh round choice or something? Then draft two or three offensive tackles. But that may be dumb if Myers is actually playing well, as the coaches keep claiming.

I wonder now too what the offseason holds for guys like Preston Smith and Devondre Campbell, and even maybe Jaire. Though it would seem crazy to trade him - I think his contract is very doable for the team, and yes, he's been hurt, but when he plays he's pretty damn good. Contrast that with Eric Stokes, who started well, then did not play well at the beginning of his second season, and then got hurt and hurt. Not sure what there is to build on there - his play was already nosediving before he was injured. Plus, you're going to need to draft about thirteen safeties anyway, so why add to the DB need in the draft?



Did you listen to Flower boys press conference ? Jason Wilde was disappointed in the Packers Defensive Scheme and the fact that GB did little to stop the Steelers running game and asked Flower boy about him going into a Nickel defense in several key plays (hinting why was the focus not on stopping the run). Flower got irritated and snapped back at Wilde and noted when they have LB lining up very wide on the line it's not a nickel. Kinda chastised Wilde. Wilde gave a nice follow up question about how/why the Steelers running game was so effective against it and Flower continued his rant and avoided the real question.....which should have been "WHY the H didn't BARRYBALL stack the box/focus on the run and try to make Pickett beat us ?

Anyways, a LOT of chat about that with Tauscher and Bulage and Wilde and Steve the Homer and they all concluded one thing. FLOWER, to his detremement, is trying to constantly cover for BARRY BALL

What a horrible mistake it was to bring him back, and Flower wants none of that chatter.

So a GOOD LOSS tomorrow, would include Love stepping up, several young players stepping up and showing progress, but BARRY once again making some bad calls that result in a loss.

The GREATER GOOD.....can ONLY END..........in BARRY DEPARTING.

And we're not nearly there yet

[Anti-Polar Bear]

I need a hero
I'm holding out for a hero 'til the end of the night
He's gotta be strong
And he's gotta be fast
And he's gotta be fresh from the fight
I need a hero

Word.

Btw: We need Prof Rand back badly. He’s the only one, aside from you and I, who truly appreciate poetry (and lyrics).

[Fritz]

Did you listen to Flower boys press conference ? Jason Wilde was disappointed in the Packers Defensive Scheme and the fact that GB did little to stop the Steelers running game and asked Flower boy about him going into a Nickel defense in several key plays (hinting why was the focus not on stopping the run). Flower got irritated and snapped back at Wilde and noted when they have LB lining up very wide on the line it's not a nickel. Kinda chastised Wilde. Wilde gave a nice follow up question about how/why the Steelers running game was so effective against it and Flower continued his rant and avoided the real question.....which should have been "WHY the H didn't BARRYBALL stack the box/focus on the run and try to make Pickett beat us ?

Anyways, a LOT of chat about that with Tauscher and Bulage and Wilde and Steve the Homer and they all concluded one thing. FLOWER, to his detremement, is trying to constantly cover for BARRY BALL

What a horrible mistake it was to bring him back, and Flower wants none of that chatter.

So a GOOD LOSS tomorrow, would include Love stepping up, several young players stepping up and showing progress, but BARRY once again making some bad calls that result in a loss.

The GREATER GOOD.....can ONLY END..........in BARRY DEPARTING.

And we're not nearly there yet

One possibility I posited somewhere here was that Barely would stave off his firing one more time because so many starters are out. I hope to god not. You can have all your many first-round guys out there, but if you're playing nickel when the opponent is on your five yard line and runs better than they pass, that's not going to matter.

If Joe Barely is here next year, that may be the beginning of the wilting of The Flower.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

One possibility I posited somewhere here was that Barely would stave off his firing one more time because so many starters are out. I hope to god not. You can have all your many first-round guys out there, but if you're playing nickel when the opponent is on your five yard line and runs better than they pass, that's not going to matter.

If Joe Barely is here next year, that may be the beginning of the wilting of The Flower.

What’s with flower this, flower that. I prefer to call Lafleur the “Frog,” as a homage to his French ancestry.

[King Friday]

I can’t imagine Barry surviving this season. If he does, then I lose all confidence in LaFleur.

[SkinBasket]

Funny to see people upset about MLF covering for his boy, while arguing that Love isn’t the main problem with this offense. Hmmmmmmm… but I’m sure it makes sense to them. Anyway, glad to see everyone getting excited to watch love hopefully have an average jay cutler game so they can continue to have some dysfunctional hope that stops them from hurting themselves this week.

[texaspackerbacker]

I can’t imagine Barry surviving this season. If he does, then I lose all confidence in LaFleur.

I don't often agree with you, but on this, absolutely.

[bobblehead]

Foe the record, Mahomes wasn't a top 5 pick. He was the 10th pick in the 2017 draft. And the Chiefs didn't tank to get that pick. The Chiefs were 12-4 in 2016 and traded up from the 27th spot to the 10th spot to draft him.

And he wears more rings than Rodgers.

[bobblehead]

Funny to see people upset about MLF covering for his boy, while arguing that Love isn’t the main problem with this offense. Hmmmmmmm… but I’m sure it makes sense to them. Anyway, glad to see everyone getting excited to watch love hopefully have an average jay cutler game so they can continue to have some dysfunctional hope that stops them from hurting themselves this week.

Can we pleased with progress without crafting the bust yet? I mean its rational and this is the internet so hot takes are more fun, but he is doing what is necessary. He hit 10 different pass catchers today in a 300 yard game....has rodgers EVER done that? Maybe, but regardless its a feat.

[Bretsky]

Can we pleased with progress without crafting the bust yet? I mean its rational and this is the internet so hot takes are more fun, but he is doing what is necessary. He hit 10 different pass catchers today in a 300 yard game....has rodgers EVER done that? Maybe, but regardless its a feat.



I'll keep saying it; I hope I'm wrong and Love turns into an elite QB.

Love helped his case a lot today

Ufortunately I think Joe Barry did as well

Two edged sword

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

Can we pleased with progress without crafting the bust yet? I mean its rational and this is the internet so hot takes are more fun, but he is doing what is necessary. He hit 10 different pass catchers today in a 300 yard game....has rodgers EVER done that? Maybe, but regardless its a feat.

Love did look better, against an inept Chargers team at home. Let's see how he performs turkey day against the Lions.

[Fritz]

Funny to see people upset about MLF covering for his boy, while arguing that Love isn’t the main problem with this offense. Hmmmmmmm… but I’m sure it makes sense to them. Anyway, glad to see everyone getting excited to watch love hopefully have an average jay cutler game so they can continue to have some dysfunctional hope that stops them from hurting themselves this week.

Last 300 yard game for the previous Packer QB? December of . . . 2021.

[SkinBasket]

Last 300 yard game for the previous Packer QB? December of . . . 2021.

I’m traveling so my assessment will have to wait until I can view this powerhouse performance tonight. As of now, he seems to be good for a good game about once every 10 or so, which may be not good enough.

[SkinBasket]

Alright, I’m at half time and I’m sorry but Love is still making fucktard decisions regularly. Mainly, it would seem the real issue is that he is an unathletic moron with zero leadership ability. He continues to throw to guys he knows cannot make the line instead of running, then when he does run, he looks like my 80 year old mother, but with less motivation. I would also note the broadcast is addressing the point I made weeeeeeeeeeks ago - that he is an indecisive retard. Slow clap for me.

[run pMc]

Disagree. Thought Love overall had a good game. Not elite, not fucktard. Good enough to win.
Another way to put it - he was as good in this game as Rodgers was last year. Not sure it was a fluke, he wasn't horrible vs. PIT but Love still has a lot to prove.

[sharpe1027]

He had a good game. Sure, he wasn't perfect. If you're hellbent on looking for mistakes, you will find them from even the best QBs.

He needs to have this type of performance more often or it's not good enough.

[SkinBasket]

You guys are seriously delusional. He can’t create with his feet. He was much better this game, but he’s still indecisive despite that being a point of emphasis this week. He misses easy throws (see early 4th Q throw to Musgrave that would have been a TD) in the name of trying to be Rodgeresque with his feet - which he lacks the ability do pull off. He has zero leadership on the field, or off, as far as I can tell.

He made most of the open throws this week. Which, sadly, is an improvement. But this was more of an exposing of an opponents defense than an awakening of a half black QB this week. And honestly, I am willing to give him credit where it is due, but it’s not looking good. Seriously - when the whitest guy on the field named Justin Herbert looks 500% more athletic than a Mulato named Jordan Love, you got issues.

TLDR: Love is still an indecisive, unathletic, low IQ QB with no ability to lead who played a team in disarray at home. Don’t get excited.

[SkinBasket]

Also, you all can hate on this defense, but they’re the only reason we have more than 1 win this year.

[SkinBasket]

I’m going all Madden on Thursdays game. If Love can lead this team to a win, I will forgive the rest of his obvious deficiencies for the rest of the season. I believe in heroic miracles, but I’m not counting on one. If the bell tolls Thursday, mark my words, I will forgive. Even if, like Sunday, the WRs do most of the heavy lifting. At least the pansy motherfucker threw the football like he intended someone to catch it half the time this week.

[sharpe1027]

You guys are seriously delusional. He can’t create with his feet. He was much better this game, but he’s still indecisive despite that being a point of emphasis this week. He misses easy throws (see early 4th Q throw to Musgrave that would have been a TD) in the name of trying to be Rodgeresque with his feet - which he lacks the ability do pull off. He has zero leadership on the field, or off, as far as I can tell.

He made most of the open throws this week. Which, sadly, is an improvement. But this was more of an exposing of an opponents defense than an awakening of a half black QB this week. And honestly, I am willing to give him credit where it is due, but it’s not looking good. Seriously - when the whitest guy on the field named Justin Herbert looks 500% more athletic than a Mulato named Jordan Love, you got issues.

TLDR: Love is still an indecisive, unathletic, low IQ QB with no ability to lead who played a team in disarray at home. Don’t get excited.

Fuck this. We don't need a racist poster obviously looking for attention. Go troll somewhere else.

[bobblehead]

I'll keep saying it; I hope I'm wrong and Love turns into an elite QB.

Love helped his case a lot today

Ufortunately I think Joe Barry did as well

Two edged sword

My statement was quite hedged. I'm NOT declaring him an elite QB after one good game. I'm NOT declaring him a bust after a couple bad ones. Its a process. Have an opinion fine, but when you run way the fuck out on a branch and it snaps, don't cry when you fall. Of course you can always just rewrite history or claim your account was hacked i guess.

Barry didn't do shit in my opinion, the Chargers didn't try to run for 200 or they would have. Keenan Allen dropped 2 passes that hit him in the numbers, that never happens. Barry might survive, but he shouldn't....and Detroit certainly will expose him Thursday. SD was poor on offense as have been many of the teams we played. Its hard to knock a man for stopping the offense in front of him, but the D has been punked by every decent QB they played before today, and if they had stuck to the run we probably would have lost. Staley was dumber than Barry. I'm not sure thats a feather in Barry's cap.

I know we are fans. We are Owl bound with every win and we are destined for the 80's all over again with every loss.

[bobblehead]

And skin, I'd say its nice to see you posting again.....IF and only IF you would offer up an opinion on anything other than Love sucking. We got ya on that one. You can take the rest of the season off if that all you have to offer.

[RashanGary]

It’s been a roller coaster.

They were prepared for the Bears game. And the Bears pass rush was non existent. The Bears also had no clue what an offense designed around Love would look like. Love played really good.

And then the next couple games he was still alright.


I was feeling optimistic at that point. I liked his chances….



And then defenses seemed to adjust and it slowly got worse as the Packers young offense didn’t seem to have answers. Mistakes were everywhere, not just with Love. But I started to doubt.


And now after some improvement, I’m liking his chances more.



He’s done enough to have some hope. But he’s done enough to have doubt too. I’m hoping for the best. He’s still got a shot!

[MadtownPacker]

Fuck this. We don't need a racist poster obviously looking for attention. Go troll somewhere else.
I was thinking SB is complaining about Love NOT being 100% Black and equating that to lack of athleticism. Why he was saying Herbert was killing Pack with his runs, which that Fabio looking mofo was. Everything else was just kardashian-level attention whore mongering.

[sharpe1027]

I was thinking SB is complaining about Love NOT being 100% Black and equating that to lack of athleticism. Why he was saying Herbert was killing Pack with his runs, which that Fabio looking mofo was. Everything else was just kardashian-level attention whore mongering.

He called Love more of a disappointment in his running ability because he's not a pure white person. That's not the same as saying super derogatory shit, but it's still bullshit. I suspect I'm not the only one thinking he's bringing up race in a way to preserve some of half-assed explanation, and yet he is intentionally doing it to get a reaction. It's not adding anything to the discussion and it's just going to continue one way or another.

Not my call, but that's how I see it .

[bobblehead]

He called Love more of a disappointment in his running ability because he's not a pure white person. That's not the same as saying super derogatory shit, but it's still bullshit. I suspect I'm not the only one thinking he's bringing up race in a way to preserve some of half-assed explanation, and yet he is intentionally doing it to get a reaction. It's not adding anything to the discussion and it's just going to continue one way or another.

Not my call, but that's how I see it .

So you're saying skin ate glue in grade school to impress the other kids??

[run pMc]

Twenty years ago Rush Limbaugh made comments about Donovan McNabb being a black QB that cost him a job.

I'm not sure why the race of a player should be relevant, bringing it up seems problematic at best.
I don't care what race Love is, I only care if he's a good player and at least a not-shitty person.

[sharpe1027]

So you're saying skin ate glue in grade school to impress the other kids??

More likely lead paint chips.

[bobblehead]

Twenty years ago Rush Limbaugh made comments about Donovan McNabb being a black QB that cost him a job.

I'm not sure why the race of a player should be relevant, bringing it up seems problematic at best.
I don't care what race Love is, I only care if he's a good player and at least a not-shitty person.

Times were different. Today there are several good black QBs and the best in the game is biracial. The NFL is no longer invested in proving they are giving black QBs a chance. At that time, every Lamaar Jackson that came along was pushed into becoming a WR.

It shouldn't matter. To most it doesn't matter. To some, they need attention desperately so they make it an issue.

[MadtownPacker]

I’m going all Madden on Thursdays game. If Love can lead this team to a win, I will forgive the rest of his obvious deficiencies for the rest of the season. I believe in heroic miracles, but I’m not counting on one. If the bell tolls Thursday, mark my words, I will forgive. Even if, like Sunday, the WRs do most of the heavy lifting. At least the pansy motherfucker threw the football like he intended someone to catch it half the time this week.Ive been waiting for this. :lol:

[QBME]

Ive been waiting for this. :lol:

������!!!

[bobblehead]

I’m going all Madden on Thursdays game. If Love can lead this team to a win, I will forgive the rest of his obvious deficiencies for the rest of the season. I believe in heroic miracles, but I’m not counting on one. If the bell tolls Thursday, mark my words, I will forgive. Even if, like Sunday, the WRs do most of the heavy lifting. At least the pansy motherfucker threw the football like he intended someone to catch it half the time this week.

The mark of character is to own up to your promises. The mark of a troll is to hide when you are looking wrong. The mark of diplomacy is to acknowledge you over stated your position and Love may still end up flopping, but is showing that the jury is still out.

[bobblehead]

Serious Question? Should we just keep bumping this thread until Love has a bad game at which point Skin will bump it for us??

[texaspackerbacker]

It makes more sense than bumping up that idiotic "tank" thread.

The original question was Love or Clifford. As damn near great as Love has been, Clifford probably would be an outstanding back up too if needed.

[run pMc]

We should not, even though we are. I don't think Clifford 's ceiling is more than a backup QB.
Love may not be a 15 year franchise HOF QB but he's the better QB of the two. At this point of the season I think the question has been answered.

[Joemailman]

Serious Question? Should we just keep bumping this thread until Love has a bad game at which point Skin will bump it for us??

Is Skin actually Adam Schein? https://twitter.com/i/status/1687591893402558464

[Joemailman]

Don't think Clifford could have done this:


Zach Kruse
@zachkruse2

Between Weeks 9-12, #Packers QB Jordan Love is...
2nd in EPA/play
7th in success rate
6th in yards per attempt
5th in adj. completion %
7th in CPOE
3rd in TD passes
4th in passer rating
7th in air yards
5th in PFF passing grade
3rd in big time throws 3rd in completions 20+

[Sparkey]

T H E s o u n d O F s i l e n c e

[MadtownPacker]

skinbasket’s response…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=9X_ViIPA-Gc

[SkinBasket]

And skin, I'd say its nice to see you posting again.....IF and only IF you would offer up an opinion on anything other than Love sucking. We got ya on that one. You can take the rest of the season off if that all you have to offer.

Hey, potato tot, I made my opinion known on the defense. So consider your side quest accomplished.

[SkinBasket]

Well fuck me, you bunch of panty twisted homos. I got other shit to do than pander to you all waiting with cum stained breath to say that Love had one good game, which still had its share of bad decisions and inaccurate throws. Some of us provide for our families before we log on to talk about a half black QB having his second good game in a row, and it is deer season here and we’ve been travelling so you can stop with all your pearl clutching. I forgive Love’s terrible inadequacies up to this point. I forgive his unexplainable unpreparedness. I forgive his absolutely awful athleticism. I forgive his mental deficiencies. I forgive his inability to lead anything other than a lost sheep, and even then he wouldn’t know it’s following him looking for a quick fuck. I forgive his privilege. I forgive his paycheck. I forgive him being a clusterfuck idiot of an inheritor of a dynasty. I forgive him for relying on the coaches, the position players, and the defense to make him give sick morons hope for the future. I forgive, for I am true to my word and to the truth. Is that good enough you mentally feeble sycophants and products of incest?

Please, forgive me for being two days late on my assessment. I didn’t know you all would freak the fuck out and spin out of control in your lives if I didn’t properly address you promptly.

However, I will say, and this is important you kool aid retards… there are several posters jumping on my balls like a coke starved whore who haven’t had shit to say for weeks. You know who you are, so I won’t bother naming names. But you sure are hypocritical cocksuckers for sure. Let’s circle back next week unless you all have a mental breakdown before then.

[SkinBasket]

Fuck this. We don't need a racist poster obviously looking for attention. Go troll somewhere else.

You’re the racist for caring so much about skin color as to pretend you’re SOOOOOOOO offended you just can’t stand it. Really, you’re worse than Harlan, and he was pretty bad about his white guilt-white knight syndrome. Also, you’re a boring hypocrite who only shows up when he thinks the week’s results bolster his stupid opinion.

TLDR: Eat a dick, emo.

[SkinBasket]

Oh oh oh oh!! No one has nothing to say in 30 minutes?!?!? You must all be trolls hiding behind your racism!!

[call_me_ishmael]

Love has looked damn good and I am beginning to come around. He really can make some freaky throws.

[SkinBasket]

Love has looked damn good and I am beginning to come around. He really can make some freaky throws.

I would agree with you if he continues to make them. But the same freaky throws haven’t been providing results until this last game, outside of the first game of the season. I would be content with the QB completing non-freaky throws to open receivers and/or being able to run for more than -2 yards. He seems to be trying too hard in that regard to be Brent Rodgers instead of Jordan Love.

[sharpe1027]

You’re the racist for caring so much about skin color as to pretend you’re SOOOOOOOO offended you just can’t stand it. Really, you’re worse than Harlan, and he was pretty bad about his white guilt-white knight syndrome. Also, you’re a boring hypocrite who only shows up when he thinks the week’s results bolster his stupid opinion.

TLDR: Eat a dick, emo.

Saying this doesn't make any of it true. It does, however, make you look even more pathetic.

[SkinBasket]

Saying this doesn't make any of it true. It does, however, make you look even more pathetic.

Saying this doesn't make any of it true. It does, however, make you look even more pathetic.

[bobblehead]

Well fuck me, you bunch of panty twisted homos. I got other shit to do than pander to you all waiting with cum stained breath to say that Love had one good game, which still had its share of bad decisions and inaccurate throws. Some of us provide for our families before we log on to talk about a half black QB having his second good game in a row, and it is deer season here and we’ve been travelling so you can stop with all your pearl clutching. I forgive Love’s terrible inadequacies up to this point. I forgive his unexplainable unpreparedness. I forgive his absolutely awful athleticism. I forgive his mental deficiencies. I forgive his inability to lead anything other than a lost sheep, and even then he wouldn’t know it’s following him looking for a quick fuck. I forgive his privilege. I forgive his paycheck. I forgive him being a clusterfuck idiot of an inheritor of a dynasty. I forgive him for relying on the coaches, the position players, and the defense to make him give sick morons hope for the future. I forgive, for I am true to my word and to the truth. Is that good enough you mentally feeble sycophants and products of incest?

Please, forgive me for being two days late on my assessment. I didn’t know you all would freak the fuck out and spin out of control in your lives if I didn’t properly address you promptly.

However, I will say, and this is important you kool aid retards… there are several posters jumping on my balls like a coke starved whore who haven’t had shit to say for weeks. You know who you are, so I won’t bother naming names. But you sure are hypocritical cocksuckers for sure. Let’s circle back next week unless you all have a mental breakdown before then.

See, that wasn't so hard :)

Look, its fair to say the jury is still out. Its stupid to definitively state he has arrived, or never will. Personally he is outplaying my "career" arc for him of Derek Carr/Jimmy G. He greatly underplayed it for several games as well, but what I see is a guy who doesn't suck, while not being prime Rodgers either (because no one is).

[SkinBasket]

See, that wasn't so hard :)

Look, its fair to say the jury is still out. Its stupid to definitively state he has arrived, or never will. Personally he is outplaying my "career" arc for him of Derek Carr/Jimmy G. He greatly underplayed it for several games as well, but what I see is a guy who doesn't suck, while not being prime Rodgers either (because no one is).

It doesn’t matter if he’s playing to your imagined career arc or not. He’s not winning games. He’s had two games that he played well enough in to say he contributed to the win and 9 where he was a non factor or sucked dirty goat ass. For a guy that’s been in the system this long and was supposed to be learning from one of the games best, he’s playing worse than you would expect from a mid round rookie. I guess mulato dick tastes good to you all because you sure are defensive about it.

So spin your butthole around the fence post all you want, but if this is what you expect from a first round pick after three years of grooming in the system under the tutelage of a future HOF QB, then you are a fool.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

…what I see is a guy who doesn't suck, while not being prime Rodgers either (because no one is).

Um, ever heard of Mahomes? Looks pretty prime Butte to me.

[Fritz]

It doesn’t matter if he’s playing to your imagined career arc or not. He’s not winning games. He’s had two games that he played well enough in to say he contributed to the win and 9 where he was a non factor or sucked dirty goat ass. For a guy that’s been in the system this long and was supposed to be learning from one of the games best, he’s playing worse than you would expect from a mid round rookie. I guess mulato dick tastes good to you all because you sure are defensive about it.

So spin your butthole around the fence post all you want, but if this is what you expect from a first round pick after three years of grooming in the system under the tutelage of a future HOF QB, then you are a fool.

His stats and Rodgers's stats from his first season as a starter are remarkably similar. I'm not saying he's going to become Aaron Rodgers. I am saying we didn't know Aaron Rodgers was going to be Aaron Rodgers until he became Aaron Rodgers, and it didn't happen until his second season as a starter.

That is to say, we still don't know how good Love will be or not be.

[MadtownPacker]

I would agree with you if he continues to make them. But the same freaky throws haven’t been providing results until this last game, outside of the first game of the season. I would be content with the QB completing non-freaky throws to open receivers and/or being able to run for more than -2 yards. He seems to be trying too hard in that regard to be Brent Rodgers instead of Jordan Love.
“If Love can lead this team to a win, I will forgive the rest of his obvious deficiencies for the rest of the season.”

Your previous words giving your word but recent post don’t seem very forgiving. You have been many terrible things but never a liar so let’s not start now. You have to ride out the rest of the season on the bandwagon. Don’t have to get a heart with the #10 tattooed on your asscheek just yet….. :lol:

[texaspackerbacker]

Um, ever heard of Mahomes? Looks pretty prime Butte to me.

If Mahomes does it 8 or 10 more years maybe hahahaha.

[call_me_ishmael]

Mahomes has two super bowls. Rodgers has one. Mahomes had already had a better career bubba.

[texaspackerbacker]

Sheeeeesh, you're pathetic. It must suck to literally always praise the enemy/opponent/whatever. and that's YOU on both ends of the forum - just pathetic.

[bobblehead]

It doesn’t matter if he’s playing to your imagined career arc or not. He’s not winning games. He’s had two games that he played well enough in to say he contributed to the win and 9 where he was a non factor or sucked dirty goat ass. For a guy that’s been in the system this long and was supposed to be learning from one of the games best, he’s playing worse than you would expect from a mid round rookie. I guess mulato dick tastes good to you all because you sure are defensive about it.

So spin your butthole around the fence post all you want, but if this is what you expect from a first round pick after three years of grooming in the system under the tutelage of a future HOF QB, then you are a fool.

I would say the fool is the guy who expected whatever it is that you expected. I guess in your mind, its really simple. You draft a guy, put him behind Rodgers and he becomes Rodgers. You are as delusional as Tex, and thats saying a lot. Right now, we have seen the numbers. He is Rodgers at the exact same point in his career. It would still be foolish to expect him to be a surefire HoFer, but to say you expected so much more and he is somehow an epic failure is....well, its you.

[bobblehead]

Um, ever heard of Mahomes? Looks pretty prime Butte to me.

He is every bit as good. I wouldn't say better. He also has a much better coach.

[bobblehead]

“If Love can lead this team to a win, I will forgive the rest of his obvious deficiencies for the rest of the season.”

Your previous words giving your word but recent post don’t seem very forgiving. You have been many terrible things but never a liar so let’s not start now. You have to ride out the rest of the season on the bandwagon. Don’t have to get a heart with the #10 tattooed on your asscheek just yet….. :lol:

I think he already got it before the season, and thats why he is so....wait for it.....butthurt.

[bobblehead]

Sheeeeesh, you're pathetic. It must suck to literally always praise the enemy/opponent/whatever. and that's YOU on both ends of the forum - just pathetic.

You're pathetic. You can't acknowledge that Maholmes is the current best and there is no reason to think he can't do it for 8 more years? You never have been good at seeing reality though.

[texaspackerbacker]

I think I have acknowledged several times that Mahomes is the current best (and I can actually spell his name too hahahaha). And it's stupid to anoint somebody GOAT in as few years as Mahomes has played. As for not doing it for 8 or 10 more years, he could get a major injury or half a dozen other things - hit by a car outside the stadium like who the hell was it, Cam Newton? Bo Jackson coulda been the GOAT or damn near in two sports, but look what happened to him.

You're grasping at straws, bobblehead, and starting to sound like those pathetic "truth squad" types in here.

[bobblehead]

Yea, APB keeps sending me John Holmes porno clips and it messed up my spelling. We'll call it tex 1 bobble 1902497

[RashanGary]

Love is on pace for a top 10 all time statistical season by a first year starter. Hes trash.

[call_me_ishmael]

Sheeeeesh, you're pathetic. It must suck to literally always praise the enemy/opponent/whatever. and that's YOU on both ends of the forum - just pathetic.

Praise? I don't think Pat Mahomes needs the praise of a rando on a Packer forum. I'm just objective. Mahomes is already a sure fire HOFer. No question about it. His stats if you project out blow Rodgers' away. Both are great.

[MadtownPacker]

So did Grandflasher SkidBasket become a Love fan like he said he would?

[Sparkey]

So did Grandflasher SkidBasket become a Love fan like he said he would?

My grandfather never learned to program the VCR so ...........

[SkinBasket]

I would say the fool is the guy who expected whatever it is that you expected. I guess in your mind, its really simple. You draft a guy, put him behind Rodgers and he becomes Rodgers. You are as delusional as Tex, and thats saying a lot. Right now, we have seen the numbers. He is Rodgers at the exact same point in his career. It would still be foolish to expect him to be a surefire HoFer, but to say you expected so much more and he is somehow an epic failure is....well, its you.

It’s not some mystery. I expected someone with three years experience practicing under a HOF QB in the same system we’re running now. Instead we got a guy who looked like Simone Biles. Now that he’s finally had a couple games where he looks like what’s he’s supposed to be and your balls are all swelling up in your throat. Or maybe that’s someone else’s balls. Hard to tell from here. Anyway, if he keeps playing like this tonight and I fully expect the blackface to fall off of Clifford.

[SkinBasket]

At least our kicker isn’t a pussy.

[RashanGary]

He literally had all rookies and second year players at all pass catching positions. And still does.

[MadtownPacker]

At least our kicker isn’t a pussy.
Yeah even he would admit Love is for real.

[bobblehead]

It’s not some mystery. I expected someone with three years experience practicing under a HOF QB in the same system we’re running now. Instead we got a guy who looked like Simone Biles. Now that he’s finally had a couple games where he looks like what’s he’s supposed to be and your balls are all swelling up in your throat. Or maybe that’s someone else’s balls. Hard to tell from here. Anyway, if he keeps playing like this tonight and I fully expect the blackface to fall off of Clifford.

Sorry skin, you can't run around insulting everyone all the while Love was playing poorly and then be butt hurt cuz we are throwing it back at you. You were wrong...its okay. Just accept that you aren't as smart as you thought you were.

[Sparkey]

Sorry skin, you can't run around insulting everyone all the while Love was playing poorly and then be butt hurt cuz we are throwing it back at you. You were wrong...its okay. Just accept that you aren't as smart as you thought you were.

Have you ever known an npd type that would do what you suggested ?

[MadtownPacker]

Ok can everyone lay off skin please. He PMed me to say yes he was butthurt but it’s because he ended up getting the #10 heart tattoo after all.

[RashanGary]

Ok can everyone lay off skin please. He PMed me to say yes he was butthurt but it’s because he ended up getting the #10 heart tattoo after all.

:lol:

Love is on a trajectory for 4,200 and 33 if he continues to be a little less effective than he has been the last month or so.

[bobblehead]

Ok can everyone lay off skin please. He PMed me to say yes he was butthurt but it’s because he ended up getting the #10 heart tattoo after all.

The one where the zero in the 10 is the heart? I got that same one on my right ass cheek!! Skin and I are like eskimo brothers or something now.

[MadtownPacker]

You know skin is unique. I heard he opted for a 1 on the left cheek with a heart around his pucker.

[bobblehead]

You know skin is unique. I heard he opted for a 1 on the left cheek with a heart around his pucker.

Gonna suck if he decides to have it removed....

[run pMc]

Reminder: this team was 4-8 with a future HOF QB and multiple vets on offense at this time last year.

[Sparkey]

You know skin is unique. I heard he opted for a 1 on the left cheek with a heart around his pucker.

Damn you!!! I just snorted hot chilli sauce when I read that while eating a burrito. I CAN HARDLY BREATH OR SEE RIGHT NOW!!!!

[SkinBasket]

My goodness you bunch of homers are worse than Reds fans. I will point out, again, that most of the people who want to come in here and try to sling poop didn’t have shit to say while Love wasn’t playing well, but now you want to run around acting like idiot savants. And to that point, and bobble’s misguided attempts to frame my position, my position was and still is based of performance, not some hope for the future. If any of you turd herders could pay attention for longer than 10 minutes, you would know that for the second week in a row the coaches have made a point of passing on to the announcers that they have been focused on his decision making and decisiveness - one of the main two issues I have. But I guess they’re wrong too, because Jordan Love. The second issue I have with him, besides him looking stoopid most of the time, is the lack of accuracy, which if you can look past your cum stained tv screens for a moment, was still on display last night, with the receivers doing the heavy lifting on all but a couple of the impact plays. Yes, it’s great Love has finally decided to throw the ball further than 5 yards, but it’s the receivers making the plays, not Love, other than him finally getting it in their general vicinity after 10 weeks.

So no one has really proven me wrong on anything, but I guess if you believe he started his career two weeks ago, then you might think so, but you’re probably got brain issues too. Which, reading some of the nonsense here, is not surprising.

[SkinBasket]

Also, he still runs like a retard.

[Bretsky]

The ongoing debate in PR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Sp9sVReIis


THE ANSWER APPEARS TO BE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcDRe7PzwAI

[SkinBasket]

Yeah even he would admit Love is for real.

I would respect you more if you were actually as gay as you sound.

[SkinBasket]

On a related note, I’ve been wearing nothing but an alpaca poncho to bed for the last few nights and it’s been really great. It even has a hood.

[MadtownPacker]

Why is your wife making you sleep outside? So she is tired of your Love hatred also huh. :lol:

[bobblehead]

My goodness you bunch of homers are worse than Reds fans. I will point out, again, that most of the people who want to come in here and try to sling poop didn’t have shit to say while Love wasn’t playing well, but now you want to run around acting like idiot savants. And to that point, and bobble’s misguided attempts to frame my position, my position was and still is based of performance, not some hope for the future. If any of you turd herders could pay attention for longer than 10 minutes, you would know that for the second week in a row the coaches have made a point of passing on to the announcers that they have been focused on his decision making and decisiveness - one of the main two issues I have. But I guess they’re wrong too, because Jordan Love. The second issue I have with him, besides him looking stoopid most of the time, is the lack of accuracy, which if you can look past your cum stained tv screens for a moment, was still on display last night, with the receivers doing the heavy lifting on all but a couple of the impact plays. Yes, it’s great Love has finally decided to throw the ball further than 5 yards, but it’s the receivers making the plays, not Love, other than him finally getting it in their general vicinity after 10 weeks.

So no one has really proven me wrong on anything, but I guess if you believe he started his career two weeks ago, then you might think so, but you’re probably got brain issues too. Which, reading some of the nonsense here, is not surprising.

Get real. Every post you made for like 5 pages, including the opening salvo was framed as Love was shit and there was no hope he could ever not be shit. Don't try and reframe your position now.

[SkinBasket]

Get real. Every post you made for like 5 pages, including the opening salvo was framed as Love was shit and there was no hope he could ever not be shit. Don't try and reframe your position now.

Get real? Okay boomer. That is an intellectually dishonest take at best. I even agreed with partial’s optimism on the condition he continues to throw like a not fucktard. So you can stop trying to be the all mighty arbiter of not having a position you’ll defend while beating some strawman born either from your inability to read or your mental laziness. The posts are right here. Read them or shut the fuck up, as the pope says.

[SkinBasket]

Why is your wife making you sleep outside? So she is tired of your Love hatred also huh. :lol:

I think she is a McGoo fan. She’s crazy.

[Fritz]

https://th.bing.com/th?id=OIP.hDWTjKclWhU69h0PlCM2rQHaO_&w=172&h=349&c=8&rs=1&qlt=90&o=6&pid=3.1&rm=2

Me too.

[MadtownPacker]

Get real. Every post you made for like 5 pages, including the opening salvo was framed as Love was shit and there was no hope he could ever not be shit. Don't try and reframe your position now.
Now now, he meant all that bad shit he said before. What we are concerned with is that he has not paid up on this:

It said “If Love can lead this team to a win, I will forgive the rest of his obvious deficiencies for the rest of the season.” This was in regard to the TDay game.

As the Vegas guy it is good that you are trying to collect. But this is a hard case, likely loko, so you might have to send your associates to deal with it.

[MadtownPacker]

I think she is a McGoo fan. She’s crazy.
They all are, that for damn sure.

[bobblehead]

Now now, he meant all that bad shit he said before. What we are concerned with is that he has not paid up on this:

It said “If Love can lead this team to a win, I will forgive the rest of his obvious deficiencies for the rest of the season.” This was in regard to the TDay game.

As the Vegas guy it is good that you are trying to collect. But this is a hard case, likely loko, so you might have to send your associates to deal with it.

I knew a former Steve Wynn Collector. He used to go to Asia, get the money, pocket 10% for himself. It was a good gig til Steve found out. I would visit him, but I'm not sure which pile of dirt in the desert is him.

[bobblehead]

Now now, he meant all that bad shit he said before. What we are concerned with is that he has not paid up on this:

It said “If Love can lead this team to a win, I will forgive the rest of his obvious deficiencies for the rest of the season.” This was in regard to the TDay game.

As the Vegas guy it is good that you are trying to collect. But this is a hard case, likely loko, so you might have to send your associates to deal with it.

I just like to hammer guys who can't admit they were wrong. I have been on both sides of Gutes 2x each now. I can laugh at myself. I can admit that oftentimes I don't have a fucking clue. Thats called "discussion". Guys who rant and whine like old Brandon did are comical. They just can't man up and say "oops, missed that one". It makes me wonder what caused such a character flaw.

[RashanGary]

Since I’ve been labeled a “troll” for suggesting than this team would be better off with Clifford than Love, who has been served a starting job on a legendary team on a silver platter with every accoutrement available to him, what is the argument against such a move? I mean other than the team, and you lot of subservient hand job artists, admitting you were wrong to trust an obviously skillfully and mentally deficient person of half color to lead this team to a absurdly woeful record at this point? Please, I beg you, educate me. I humbly await your responses.

Skillfully and mentally deficient?? How are those things, things that can be overcome?

You’re so full of shit. You come here calling people idiots for thinking Love has a chance and then backtrack like a little bitch because you’re so damn insecure. You can’t handle losing the “smartest guy in the room” shtick that really only amounts to being a legend in your own mind because not one other person is buying it.

You’re no smarter than anyone else here, skinbasket. You’re just another person like the rest of us. Come down to earth and enjoy being a stupid human. It’s more fun than having to try to be superior to make yourself feel better. Trust me.

[SkinBasket]

Skillfully and mentally deficient?? How are those things, things that can be overcome?

You’re still alive, aren’t you?

[SkinBasket]

It said “If Love can lead this team to a win, I will forgive the rest of his obvious deficiencies for the rest of the season.” This was in regard to the TDay game.

Well fuck. You obviously stealth edited me on that one because I didn’t know that existed. I don’t put it past you, but I do honestly expect you to own up to it if you did. I don’t remember positing that, and it’s awful convenient you bringing it up, but if you will swear, by your Mexican honor, that I posted that, I will have to abide. Son of a bitch. Be honest now you cocksucker! There’s a lot of potential assfuckery on the line here.

[sharpe1027]

Responding, in any form, just makes it worse.

[RashanGary]

Hoody Genius, wrong every year. Ron Wolf, wrong over and over every year he ran a team. All the rest of us, wrong all of the time.

But not skinbasket. He’s the smartest guy in the room. All of your buttholes are puckered too tight and the cum stains on your keyboards are too much of a distraction for you to summon up even a 3rd grade level of reading comprehension. If you think skinbasket was wrong about Love, you’re just going to have to take your eyes off his cock that you’re drooling over long enough to realize it’s you who was wrong. And you’re a retard. We like calling people retard :roll:

I’m sad for you that you can’t laugh at yourself for being wrong like everyone else by the age of 40 or whatever you are. The rest of us grew out of that narcissism in our 20’s.

[MadtownPacker]

I’m going all Madden on Thursdays game. If Love can lead this team to a win, I will forgive the rest of his obvious deficiencies for the rest of the season. I believe in heroic miracles, but I’m not counting on one. If the bell tolls Thursday, mark my words, I will forgive. Even if, like Sunday, the WRs do most of the heavy lifting. At least the pansy motherfucker threw the football like he intended someone to catch it half the time this week.
Having Total Recall yet?

https://www.soundandvision.com/images/styles/600_wide/public/221total.promo_.jpg

[MadtownPacker]

Well fuck. You obviously stealth edited me on that one because I didn’t know that existed. I don’t put it past you, but I do honestly expect you to own up to it if you did. I don’t remember positing that, and it’s awful convenient you bringing it up, but if you will swear, by your Mexican honor, that I posted that, I will have to abide. Son of a bitch. Be honest now you cocksucker! There’s a lot of potential assfuckery on the line here.
No man that would defeat the purpose. I swear that if I am lying may I never enjoy the sweet spice of jalapeños ever again.

I saw it as you giving Love and yourself on out. Your ask for a miracle came true. Do me a favor and read this article. It may be why he has such a reserved demeanor. It is clearly part of what drives him.
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/jordan-love-dad-orbin-mom-anna-mother-father/7004270cfeb4064c1f38e1fb

[George Cumby]

No man that would defeat the purpose. I swear that if I am lying may I never enjoy the sweet spice of jalapeños ever again.

I saw it as you giving Love and yourself on out. Your ask for a miracle came true. Do me a favor and read this article. It may be why he has such a reserved demeanor. It is clearly part of what drives him.
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/jordan-love-dad-orbin-mom-anna-mother-father/7004270cfeb4064c1f38e1fb

Kid's been through hell, very little in life is going to be worse than what he's already been through.

[SkinBasket]

No man that would defeat the purpose. I swear that if I am lying may I never enjoy the sweet spice of jalapeños ever again.

I saw it as you giving Love and yourself on out.

I don’t need no outs. And honestly I didn’t believe making that bet would be a problem. I do believe I meant “rest” to mean the rest of the already played season, not the rest of the unplayed season, but I can see how it reads. So, I will forgive the rest of his season, and the rest of the season he already put us through, but I ain’t going to stop calling out how fucked up he plays. Your link made all the puzzle pieces come together homie.

* EDITED DUE TO SLANDEROUS COMMENT

[SkinBasket]

Responding, in any form, just makes it worse.

Says the guy who responded.

[Sparkey]

I don’t need no outs. And honestly I didn’t believe making that bet would be a problem. I do believe I meant “rest” to mean the rest of the already played season, not the rest of the unplayed season, but I can see how it reads. So, I will forgive the rest of his season, and the rest of the season he already put us through, but I ain’t going to stop calling out how fucked up he plays. Your link made all the puzzle pieces come together homie.

Uncalled for Skin........You can spout shit all you want, but this is a borderline slanderous post made on a public forum.

[MadtownPacker]

I don’t need no outs. And honestly I didn’t believe making that bet would be a problem. I do believe I meant “rest” to mean the rest of the already played season, not the rest of the unplayed season, but I can see how it reads. So, I will forgive the rest of his season, and the rest of the season he already put us through, but I ain’t going to stop calling out how fucked up he plays. Your link made all the puzzle pieces come together homie.

* EDITED DUE TO SLANDEROUS COMMENTIt isn't borderline, it is flat out slanderous. That you wrote that isn't shocking or jarring or cute. It is extremely sad that you would go there towards a fellow human being who hasnt done shit to you other than not play football to your liking. PackerRats might stoop low but it is above that level and never OK with something made up.

At the end of the day you didnt stick to your word and that says alot more than any comments you make. Don't do this again.

[George Cumby]

Hey Shitbasket, watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAAKjg4gRpQ

[SkinBasket]

It isn't borderline, it is flat out slanderous. That you wrote that isn't shocking or jarring or cute. It is extremely sad that you would go there towards a fellow human being who hasnt done shit to you other than not play football to your liking. PackerRats might stoop low but it is above that level and never OK with something made up.

At the end of the day you didnt stick to your word and that says alot more than any comments you make. Don't do this again.

Well, I don’t actually have any idea what you’re talking about since you took it out of my post I guess and I don’t have anything in my inbox telling me what “slanderous” material I posted. Seriously. Like seriously seriously I have no idea what you guys are talking about. So, if I may ask a favor madtown, please let me know privately. Because the post I see “edited” is the post I posted as far as I know.

[SkinBasket]

Ah, I remember now. There was something about that link above. Good lord. Great. I get it. LOL. What a clusterfuck. I suppose if I say anything else it will be construed as political or socially unacceptable by today’s standards. From the river to the sea! Is that my free pass? How far we’ve fallen.

[QBME]

How far afield we have wandered.

[SkinBasket]

How far afield we have wandered.

Yes. No one knows how to read a book anymore, much less understand the literary concepts within. Progress!

[SkinBasket]

A lot to forgive already. I may need to make a new drink named “To Forgive is Love.”

[SkinBasket]

Maybe just Forgiving Love. That’s much more concise and shouldn’t offend anyone.

[SkinBasket]

Guess I need to make it a triple.

[SkinBasket]

True to my word, I forgive Jordan for spending three years of on the job training under a HOF QB just to be totally outplayed by a guy named Tommy DeVito. What’s the excuse tonight fellas? Because according to you all, I was totally wrong, so Love obviously wasn’t the problem. He was super accurate, decisive, and athletic running the ball, so I don’t understand went went wrong.

[QBME]

True to my word, I forgive Jordan for spending three years of on the job training under a HOF QB just to be totally outplayed by a guy named Tommy DeVito. What’s the excuse tonight fellas? Because according to you all, I was totally wrong, so Love obviously wasn’t the problem. He was super accurate, decisive, and athletic running the ball, so I don’t understand went went wrong.

Dude, relax,
I understand wanting to rub the nose in it, but
well
Whatever

[call_me_ishmael]

This is one fragile, fragile man, omg.

[bobblehead]

True to my word, I forgive Jordan for spending three years of on the job training under a HOF QB just to be totally outplayed by a guy named Tommy DeVito. What’s the excuse tonight fellas? Because according to you all, I was totally wrong, so Love obviously wasn’t the problem. He was super accurate, decisive, and athletic running the ball, so I don’t understand went went wrong.

You are still totally wrong. Love had an off game. By your logic the chefs should move on from Mahomes because Love totally outplayed him last week. But then, logic hasn't been your strong point of late. Flame throwing and crying yes....logic, not so much.

[bobblehead]

This is one fragile, fragile man, omg.

Yea, maybe I should lay off him. I'd feel bad if he got self destructive because his ego gets bruised. He is displaying the kind of behavior that is incredibly dangerous to ones self.

[RashanGary]

I got other shit to do than pander to you all waiting with cum stained breath to say that Love had one good game, which still had its share of bad decisions and inaccurate throws. Some of us provide for our families before we log on to talk about a half black QB having his second good game in a row, and it is deer season here and we’ve been travelling so you can stop with all your pearl clutching.

With this weeks response time, I’m sorry to hear you no longer have a family to provide for.

[SkinBasket]

So attempts at personal insults is all you lot has. Nothing has changed. And bobble, it’s funny you call this an “off” game for Love when it is perfectly reflective of a majority of his games this year. But carry on carrying that water. I’m sure it’s worth the weight.

[Freak Out]

Ha ha ha! The Kentucky kept man is fine. Driving the kids to soccer practice and trolling Packer faithful for fun on occasion.

[SkinBasket]

Come down to earth and enjoy being a stupid human. It’s more fun than having to try to be superior to make yourself feel better. Trust me.

Take your own advice much? Maybe stop being a little bitch and own up to being a homer retard that cares more about caressing Love’s balls than the future of this team. Trust me, you’ll feel better. But I forgive you as I forgive him, for forgiveness is what you all demanded. Because you’re smart like that.

I will note there has been not been one reply that addresses the poor QB play, just childish insults and groupthink mobbery. No wonder no one intelligent posts here anymore.

[sharpe1027]

I like cake.

[Fritz]

Yes, Love was crummy on Monday night. His passes were constantly too high on shorter- and mid-range routes, and his long ball is still suspect.

Is this who he is, or can he be the guy we saw the last few weeks?

We don't know yet.

I like lemon cake.

[Sparkey]

Some CAKE is ok. :razz:


https://youtu.be/F_HoMkkRHv8

[run pMc]

What are we talking about again?

We know this much:

Love is a first year starter, so he's bound to have some highs and lows.
He appears to be poised, most of the time makes good reads, has some issues with throwing deep and his general accuracy.
He also appears to be a little streaky.

He's better than Clifford. He's better than a number of QBs who are currently first year starters, whether they be presumptive franchise QBs or subbing in.

We also know Skin and a few others don't like him, which is their opinion and that's fine. Personally, I was never on the bandwagon but what he's done overall has been promising.
He has a lot of potential, and a lot of room for improvement, but I also think he's done pretty well considering the injuries, and especially given the lack of an effective running game that was supposed to support him.

He's going to be the starter this year and to start next year, and if he plays more consistently and cleans a few things up will be locked up with a long term extension.
I'll cheer for him as long as he's a Packer.

I also like cake.

[bobblehead]

With this weeks response time, I’m sorry to hear you no longer have a family to provide for.

Post of the thread. You win the internet. When Love is lights out beating the defending champs skin is too busy to post. But one off game (a game where Love brought them back to lead with 2 mins to go) and Skin suddenly finds time in his busy schedule to troll. Well played JH, well played.

[bobblehead]

So attempts at personal insults is all you lot has. Nothing has changed. And bobble, it’s funny you call this an “off” game for Love when it is perfectly reflective of a majority of his games this year. But carry on carrying that water. I’m sure it’s worth the weight.

It was an off game. Some guys only have off games (like Rodgers through all of 2022, or did we forget about that?). Love is 13th in total QBR right now after that game. That is slightly above average. I'd say that is reflective of his season. He has also shown poise and signs of improvement which is nice. I guess your version of reality is kinda cool, even if it doesn't match up with anything actually happening.

edit: Sorry, I actually don't like cake. More of a pie guy.

[Sparkey]

It was an off game. Some guys only have off games (like Rodgers through all of 2022, or did we forget about that?). Love is 13th in total QBR right now after that game. That is slightly above average. I'd say that is reflective of his season. He has also shown poise and signs of improvement which is nice. I guess your version of reality is kinda cool, even if it doesn't match up with anything actually happening.

edit: Sorry, I actually don't like cake. More of a pie guy.

https://y.yarn.co/b2a7e708-416b-4560-91b6-2c6a141f0216_text.gif

[SkinBasket]

No wonder no one intelligent posts here anymore.

…

[SkinBasket]

This is one fragile, fragile man, omg.

This might be the most beta male thing I have seen since I saw guy throw a football once. But I have to admit, it did make me LOL for real. Thanks Sis.

[SkinBasket]

I forgive Love for not playing defense.

[Fritz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jezqNxQ8mb0

[RashanGary]

So attempts at personal insults is all you lot has. Nothing has changed.

There’s a lot of directions you could go, and you have shown a lack of self awareness. But going here, even for you, is a little surprising. You never cease to amaze, skinbasket.

[run pMc]

Please do not feed the trolls.

[SkinBasket]

Please do not feed the trolls.

Very cleverly and insightful. Your mother must be proud of you.

So… another week of weak ass short throws and inaccurate “long” throws, with receivers taking hits twisting jumping turning and generally just trying to figure out where the fuck Love is throwing the ball. Another week of forgetting what it looks like for a QB to hit a receiver in stride or to not lead him into a hit. What were there? Like three balls that hit on target again? Fucking pathetic.

But defense!!! I see all the fragile hard ass keyboard warriors are silent again. Slow. Clap.

[KYPack]

I know it's troll feeding, but department...

There's a cool hurdle Love may cross this year. he needs 413 yards and 3 TD's to have a 4000 yd 30 TD season.

The Chicago Bears have never have a QB pass either milestone in their History.

Should be interesting for the rest of the season.

[Fritz]

Very cleverly and insightful. Your mother must be proud of you.

So… another week of weak ass short throws and inaccurate “long” throws, with receivers taking hits twisting jumping turning and generally just trying to figure out where the fuck Love is throwing the ball. Another week of forgetting what it looks like for a QB to hit a receiver in stride or to not lead him into a hit. What were there? Like three balls that hit on target again? Fucking pathetic.

But defense!!! I see all the fragile hard ass keyboard warriors are silent again. Slow. Clap.

I think we've all been approaching this the wrong way. What if, instead of "Does Love Suck and Is Clifford Better?" it's actually "Love is Looking Like He Is Going to Be Good and Oh My Gosh So Is Clifford!"

TWO Top-Notch NFL QB's, both young, both on the same roster!

Yeah baby, yeah!!

[texaspackerbacker]

Well said, Fritz. My thoughts also. I HOPE you weren't being sarcastic. I hate sarcasm.

[bobblehead]

I'll give you credit Skin, you are now in Tex territory where you stake out a position, are proven wrong about 10 times, double and triple down, and never give an inch that you may be wrong. I have shame, so I could never do that, but you....you just keep soldiering on not caring how pathetic you are becoming. Bully for you.

[texaspackerbacker]

If you're not careful, you may drive me into the Skin camp hahahaha. I don't have a dog in this fight. I'm with Fritz, trying to steer the thread back to the original topic. What was it, 7 or 8 pages without Clifford even mentioned?

[SkinBasket]

I'll give you credit Skin, you are now in Tex territory where you stake out a position, are proven wrong about 10 times, double and triple down, and never give an inch that you may be wrong. I have shame, so I could never do that, but you....you just keep soldiering on not caring how pathetic you are becoming. Bully for you.

Says the guy who only shows up when Love plays “well.” Granted he played a lot better this week, but if the three wide open scoring throws he missed badly against a shit team doesn’t raise any flags for you, then good for you. Against a better team, that matters. Like it has all season.

Clifford’s box score says it all.

[Fritz]

Okay, Skin, I have to think you're messing with us with that last line.

[NewsBruin]

When/why did the Big Red Nittany get 3 snaps in the Vikings game?

He's got a 100% completion rate and 37.0 ypa average in the regular season.

[run pMc]

MLF put a bunch of bench players out for the last possession (8 snaps). Clifford was the human victory cigar/QB.

[bobblehead]

Says the guy who only shows up when Love plays “well.” Granted he played a lot better this week, but if the three wide open scoring throws he missed badly against a shit team doesn’t raise any flags for you, then good for you. Against a better team, that matters. Like it has all season.

Clifford’s box score says it all.

LOL. I am here in every thread constantly. I guess you are correct though. I only show up when Love is playing well....like nearly all the time.

[SkinBasket]

Okay, Skin, I have to think you're messing with us with that last line.

Hey, my guy finally got a chance and killed it.

[George Cumby]

Gee, if only Clifford was in, the Packers would be going to the the playoffs.

Oh, wait........

[SkinBasket]

LOL. I am here in every thread constantly.

That’s pretty fucking sad dood. No offense, but wow.

Anyway, today represented what I expected out of our favorite half breed from the get go. Demonstrating that he understands the offense while still making stupid mistakes occasionally. By this point of the season, I would prefer he wasn’t making stupid mistakes, but if his face is an indication of his intellect, that’s asking too much.

This was the first game he played to expectations if you aren't a total homer moron. Although his on target throws weren’t as sharp as last week. His off target throws weren’t as bad, so that is acceptable.

[SkinBasket]

Gee, if only Clifford was in, the Packers would be going to the the playoffs.

Oh, wait........

You’re kinda a “small picture” guy aren’t you? That’s okay. We need those kind too. Also, welcome back to the conversation. Your insight was deeply missed.

[George Cumby]

You’re kinda a “small picture” guy aren’t you? That’s okay. We need those kind too. Also, welcome back to the conversation. Your insight was deeply missed.

LOL.

Get fucked you small, racist piece of shit.

[RashanGary]

Jordan Love finishes with 4,159 Pass Yards and 32 Pass TD

The ONLY QBs in NFL HISTORY to exceed these totals in their first season as a full time starter:

Patrick Mahomes
Kurt Warner

[Bretsky]

Jordan Love finishes with 4,159 Pass Yards and 32 Pass TD

The ONLY QBs in NFL HISTORY to exceed these totals in their first season as a full time starter:

Patrick Mahomes
Kurt Warner



ROOKIE CARDS ?

Love and Wicks ??