Rasul Douglas Traded To Bills

[Joemailman]

an Rapoport
@RapSheet

Source: #Packers DB Rasul Douglas to the #Bills.

[bobblehead]

If true I really hate this move. He's young enough and been our best CB since coming to town (mainly cuz Jaire looks like Estus Hood lately).

[Joemailman]

I might have kind of expected this if Stokes was back and playing. But with Stokes out, we're looking at Valentine. Been a while since a Packers season appeared to be over before it was half over.

[SudsMcBucky]

If true I really hate this move. He's young enough and been our best CB since coming to town (mainly cuz Jaire looks like Estus Hood lately).

How do you know if you hate it until we know what we got back?

[Sparkey]

3rd for Douglas and a 5th round pick

https://nfltraderumors.co/trade-packers-trading-cb-rasul-douglas-to-bills/

https://www.si.com/nfl/packers/transactions/packers-trade-rasul-douglas-to-buffalo-bills

[texaspackerbacker]

I read we got a third and gave back a fifth with Douglas. That to me is pretty hateable.

If we got the fifth plus the third rather than giving back a fifth, then it isn't quite so bad, but still a negative thing.

[bobblehead]

How do you know if you hate it until we know what we got back?

Because I knew it wasn't a 1st and he should be a guy in the future plans to win.

[Sparkey]

I just updated my post after reading another site. Considering Douglas is 29 and was a FA pickup, I think it is a good trade.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

Now Preston?

[Joemailman]

nm

[SudsMcBucky]

Because I knew it wasn't a 1st and he should be a guy in the future plans to win.

Meh, he's no spring chicken anymore. His current contract is a nonstarter for 2024 so he'd have to have been agreeable to a sizeable restructure. Move ahead with the youth movement at this point in time.

[Travisb72]

Because I knew it wasn't a 1st and he should be a guy in the future plans to win.

A gm that would give up a first for Douglas would be tarred, feathered and beheaded before being burned at the stake.

Why would any competent GM’s include a 29 year old, slightly above average, cornerback in their big plans for the future. This team is probably 2-3 years away from being decent. That’ll put Rasul at 31-32 years old.

[Joemailman]

Now Preston?

Pretty sure that's it. Trading deadline is here.

[run pMc]

Huber reporting the same over at SI.

Rasul is a good player, with another year on his deal so he has value.
As others have pointed out he's aging and by the time the next window opens for GB (2025) he'll be gone anyway. I'm fine with the move, they should either sit still or be sellers this year.

I don't think it's a bad trade, GB will have 5 picks inside the top 100 and they get him off the books capwise. Valentine will see time and he's not ready for primetime but I think it will be good development for him.
He was a tough fit with Stokes and Jaire being boundary corners as well.

He'll be missed in the locker room and on the field. He was a good interview from what I've seen. Gets to play for a contender in the AFC, so good for him. The losing was wearing on him. Enjoyed watching him play for GB and I wish him health and luck going forward.

[run pMc]

Now Preston?

They redid Preston's contract this year and made it look like he'd be here at least this year if not next as well. I think with Enagbare's issues in run defense, plus LVN's and Brenton Cox's inexperience they want to keep him around. Trading away 2 starters on defense would be tough.

[Joemailman]

Given Packers recent draft history, should have given Bills their 3rd and taken a 5th.

[Fosco33]

He’s had some success - but I’ve called out some terrible plays while watching this. For effectively a 4th rd value - i think it’s a good trade.

Hope Jaire and Preston are shipped off too while we finally admit the rebuild mode is here.

[run pMc]

Montez Sweat to the Bears, Chase Young to the 49ers, Leonard Williams (NYG) to the Seahawks. Detroit gets Donovan Peoples-Jones for a R6. Vikings trade a R6 pick to ARI for Josh Dobbs, and trade Ezra Cleveland. Lots of players moving.

[Upnorth]

Wait, this ears best packers cb and a 5th for a 3rd.

Remind me why I supported gute on my last post here
....

[run pMc]

Just noticed Montez Sweat is (like Gary) on his 5th year option. So the Bears traded a R2 pick for the right to pay Sweat a big extension. Wonder how that's going to go with Bears fans. Hey, at least it's not an ILB.
Didn't see Jaylon Johnson, who is a very good young corner, get traded even though he requested one. My guess is he signs elsewhere in FA. I'm assuming he's looking for a contract that overpays him and that's why he is stuck playing out his rookie deal.

[run pMc]

Wait, this ears best packers cb and a 5th for a 3rd.

Remind me why I supported gute on my last post here
....

It hurts them this year, but it's not a terrible move in the long run, especially if Jaire/Stokes can get healthy and consistent. I think they really like Valentine, and they have a logjam at outside receiver anyway.
Other teams are only going to want your good players. Nobody is trading for Royce Newman.

[NewsBruin]

Vikings going both directions weirds me out. Do they see Dobbs having a place on the 2024 roster?

[RashanGary]

Sul was probably our 2nd best defender after Gary this year.

Hopefully we get in the Drake Maye sweepstakes

[bobblehead]

Meh, he's no spring chicken anymore. His current contract is a nonstarter for 2024 so he'd have to have been agreeable to a sizeable restructure. Move ahead with the youth movement at this point in time.

He is the 10th best CB in the NFL according to PFF. $11.6 for his last year is a nonstarter?? Man, who should we pay then?


A gm that would give up a first for Douglas would be tarred, feathered and beheaded before being burned at the stake.

Why would any competent GM’s include a 29 year old, slightly above average, cornerback in their big plans for the future. This team is probably 2-3 years away from being decent. That’ll put Rasul at 31-32 years old.

Yes, I know no one would give a first which is why I knew I hated this deal. Duh...exactly what I was saying.

With an added year together and a new LT in the draft this team could make noise in next year. This isn't 1989 where rebuilds take years. It can be fast. See Lions, Detroit.

And he isn't slightly above average, he is top 10 based on metrics. He is not 29, he is 28. He is also a relentless studier who taught Jaire how to film study. I can see where thats not the guy you want around younger players. Maybe sign Antonio Brown to build the locker room.

Thats a lot of mistakes in one post. I'll cut you some slack and assume post #8 will be more accurate. At least get the age right. Thats easy to google.

[red]

Sul was probably our 2nd best defender after Gary this year.



i completely agree with this

this is a terrible trade. we gave up our best DB for less then a 3rd

are we in full rebuild mode? why weren't we in that mode already last offseason?

[bobblehead]

See, Red and Rash agree with me....shit, I better reconsider.

Just kidding guys, we all agree....Gutes fucked this one up.

[MadScientist]

It's an ok trade. The net is in the range of the bottom of round 3 to the middle of round 4. It all depends if GB can avoid their 3rd round curse.

[MadScientist]

i completely agree with this

this is a terrible trade. we gave up our best DB for less then a 3rd

are we in full rebuild mode? why weren't we in that mode already last offseason?

Because they weren't going to pay him 9M next year, and he isn't getting younger. This year is toast and something is better than nothing.

[Teamcheez1]

I believe they would have gotten rid of Aaron Jones and Preston Smith with the right offers.
It’s likely Jones, Dillon, and Smith are gone next year anyway.

[Travisb72]

He is the 10th best CB in the NFL according to PFF. $11.6 for his last year is a nonstarter?? Man, who should we pay then?



Yes, I know no one would give a first which is why I knew I hated this deal. Duh...exactly what I was saying.

With an added year together and a new LT in the draft this team could make noise in next year. This isn't 1989 where rebuilds take years. It can be fast. See Lions, Detroit.

And he isn't slightly above average, he is top 10 based on metrics. He is not 29, he is 28. He is also a relentless studier who taught Jaire how to film study. I can see where thats not the guy you want around younger players. Maybe sign Antonio Brown to build the locker room.

Thats a lot of mistakes in one post. I'll cut you some slack and assume post #8 will be more accurate. At least get the age right. Thats easy to google.

One mistake on the age. The rest is pure conjecture on your part. So you think this team is only one LT, and a rookie LT at that, away from “making noise”? How about our center, RG, Dline, cornerback, safeties, LB, defensive coordinator and qb who really hasn’t shown much? And you think a rookie LT is going to come in and fix that all?? There’s a reason that this team is one of the worst in the league right now, and it isn’t because of just the LT.
Also, Detroit has finally become good after years of inept management and coaching and high draft picks. They did not just turn their franchise around in a year.
But hey, at least you can hang your hat on me being off 1 year on Rasul’s age. Even at 28, unless his name is sauce or prime time, a gm isn’t planning the future around him.

[Bretsky]

How do you know if you hate it until we know what we got back?


HATE IT MORE

We got a F'CKIN 3rd round draft pick back

[Bretsky]

I just updated my post after reading another site. Considering Douglas is 29 and was a FA pickup, I think it is a good trade.

Do we need to outline Gutebag's 3rd round picks again ?

[Bretsky]

Given Packers recent draft history, should have given Bills their 3rd and taken a 5th.:knll::knll::knll::knll::knll:

[Joemailman]

“I’m both. I’m both,” Douglas said when asked if he was frustrated or angry. “We’re saying sh** but until we actually do the sh**, it don’t really matter. I’m thinking about it like, bro, I’ve never been a loser in my life. These last two years have been f***ing loser. That sh** ain’t me. I don’t think that sh**’s us. We’ve got to do something, you know what I mean?”

Did this get Rasul traded?

[red]

Because they weren't going to pay him 9M next year, and he isn't getting younger. This year is toast and something is better than nothing.

9 million is nothing for a #1 cb, and yes, ever since alexander started to focus on shit talking and not playing, douglas has been our #1

i wonder if gary demanded a trade to a competent team and thats why he ended up with a new deal on trade deadline day. seems a bit of a coincidence

[Bretsky]

See, Red and Rash agree with me....shit, I better reconsider.

Just kidding guys, we all agree....Gutes fucked this one up.


Just a SHIT SHIT SHIT TRADE but Congrats to the EX PACKER for going to a solid organization

The media will HATE this. THey love Rasul; they consider him one of the top leaders in the locker room that lacks direction.

Now a team devoid of leaders has even less.

GOOD thing we have the Flower:crazy:

[red]

Did this get Rasul traded?

it better not have gotten him traded because thats the type of attitude that should be demanded from players

but i can see him saying that, then turning around and saying "trade me"

[call_me_ishmael]

Why are they trading away a contributor and leader when they are lacking them? Crazy move for not worth it return. Cooter has gotta go.

[bobblehead]

One mistake on the age. The rest is pure conjecture on your part. So you think this team is only one LT, and a rookie LT at that, away from “making noise”? How about our center, RG, Dline, cornerback, safeties, LB, defensive coordinator and qb who really hasn’t shown much? And you think a rookie LT is going to come in and fix that all?? There’s a reason that this team is one of the worst in the league right now, and it isn’t because of just the LT.
Also, Detroit has finally become good after years of inept management and coaching and high draft picks. They did not just turn their franchise around in a year.
But hey, at least you can hang your hat on me being off 1 year on Rasul’s age. Even at 28, unless his name is sauce or prime time, a gm isn’t planning the future around him.

You were off by "slightly above average" as well. PFF has him ranked 10th in entire league. No matter how little faith you put in their grades, they grade all players on same scale. Also, note that the vikings picked on Jaire, not douglas. how many games ended with douglas picking a pass off in the last few seasons?

And yes, one bookend LT (rookie top 10 LTs usually have immediate impact) will change the course of this team along with all our offense (who are on rookie contracts) stepping forward some. You think our LBs suck?? I guess, Gary and preston blow. Campbell wasn't all pro recently and Quay isn't an ascending player. Our CBs suck? Well, trading the best one hurts for sure, but thats kind of my point.

You are basically a fan. Either everyone on the roster is all pro (Tex) or they all are trash (you). The truth is that there is plenty of talent, but the team has some serious needs to go along with being extremely young. After 2 games half the forum anointed Love HoF status. 5 weeks later he is garbage and needs to be replaced after playing 7 games (5 with a sieve of an OL).

The glass truly is half full. Its also truly half empty. How they play it from here will matter, and trading your best CB who has 3-4 years left in him to move up 40 spots probably isn't the right way to play it.

[bobblehead]

Did this get Rasul traded?

Probably should have gotten him a raise.

[Vincenzo]

Did this get Rasul traded?
I’m wondering this too. Did Rasul say something that sparked this trade.

[call_me_ishmael]

Did this get Rasul traded?

I doubt it, that's pretty tame all things considered.

[Travisb72]

You were off by "slightly above average" as well. PFF has him ranked 10th in entire league. No matter how little faith you put in their grades, they grade all players on same scale. Also, note that the vikings picked on Jaire, not douglas. how many games ended with douglas picking a pass off in the last few seasons?

And yes, one bookend LT (rookie top 10 LTs usually have immediate impact) will change the course of this team along with all our offense (who are on rookie contracts) stepping forward some. You think our LBs suck?? I guess, Gary and preston blow. Campbell wasn't all pro recently and Quay isn't an ascending player. Our CBs suck? Well, trading the best one hurts for sure, but thats kind of my point.

You are basically a fan. Either everyone on the roster is all pro (Tex) or they all are trash (you). The truth is that there is plenty of talent, but the team has some serious needs to go along with being extremely young. After 2 games half the forum anointed Love HoF status. 5 weeks later he is garbage and needs to be replaced after playing 7 games (5 with a sieve of an OL).

The glass truly is half full. Its also truly half empty. How they play it from here will matter, and trading your best CB who has 3-4 years left in him to move up 40 spots probably isn't the right way to play it.

There’s a reason they are 28th against the run. Gary is a pash rusher, who doesn’t play any outside contain or the run. Preston is just ok. Campbell was all pro 3 years ago and is a shell of that player and can’t stay healthy. Losing their best CB will hurts big time. Their safeties are trash.
I like quay, big fatty Slaton, wyatt and Iowa boy has potential and jaire when healthy.

[run pMc]

Given all the problems on this team, I honestly don't think trading Rasul moves the needle THAT much.

They aren't a playoff contender, they aren't even a good team right now.

Trading him gives them a cheap 4 year deal from that R3 pick, $7M in cap space, and developmental snaps for Valentine.

I like Rasul and am sorry to see him go, but I don't think it's a bad deal. PFF grades or not, he got burned against DET. He's a smart guy and has good size they could have really used against Puca Nakua this week, but he's not a speedster and he gambles. He's not going to get any better than he is.
Their window is at best in 2025, he will be past his prime or likely gone by then. Gute is looking to the future with this pick. The present is a 6-7 win team at best.

[red]

Given all the problems on this team, I honestly don't think trading Rasul moves the needle THAT much.

They aren't a playoff contender, they aren't even a good team right now.

Trading him gives them a cheap 4 year deal from that R3 pick, $7M in cap space, and developmental snaps for Valentine.

I like Rasul and am sorry to see him go, but I don't think it's a bad deal. PFF grades or not, he got burned against DET. He's a smart guy and has good size they could have really used against Puca Nakua this week, but he's not a speedster and he gambles. He's not going to get any better than he is.
Their window is at best in 2025, he will be past his prime or likely gone by then. Gute is looking to the future with this pick. The present is a 6-7 win team at best.

the chances of them finding a player the caliber of douglas with that 3rd round picks is about 10%

add in the fact that is now our pick, and gutebag can't find shit in the 3rd and that brings it to about a 2% chance of finding a player of the same quality with that pick

[run pMc]

Maybe he packages it with the other R3 pick to move up into R2.
Eventually they have to break this R3 curse. You'd think.

Maybe Murphy decides to shitcan everyone and a new GM benefits. Doubtful, but you never know.

they got Rasul for nothing off a practice squad, it's not like they are losing out on a big investment with him. He'd help them this year, but I think the returns on his will diminish over time.

I get why people are unhappy he got traded. I guess I'm ok with it.

[RashanGary]

the chances of them finding a player the caliber of douglas with that 3rd round picks is about 10%

add in the fact that is now our pick, and gutebag can't find shit in the 3rd and that brings it to about a 2% chance of finding a player of the same quality with that pick

The chances you give here are reasonable. We do save the money, so that’s one small benefit. But the odds of us getting better are slim to none. Rasul was worth every penny. I doubt Gute can spend that small amount of money any better than it was spent on Sul.

[bobblehead]

There’s a reason they are 28th against the run. Gary is a pash rusher, who doesn’t play any outside contain or the run. Preston is just ok. Campbell was all pro 3 years ago and is a shell of that player and can’t stay healthy. Losing their best CB will hurts big time. Their safeties are trash.
I like quay, big fatty Slaton, wyatt and Iowa boy has potential and jaire when healthy.

Campbell was All Pro at the end of the 2021 season. Last year he was banged up but pretty damn good in 13 games. This season is 4 games old. See, when you exaggerate with "3 years ago" you lose credibility. You try and make it sound like his last good year was 3 seasons removed, when it was 1 full season ago.

[call_me_ishmael]

Campbell was All Pro at the end of the 2021 season. Last year he was banged up but pretty damn good in 13 games. This season is 4 games old. See, when you exaggerate with "3 years ago" you lose credibility. You try and make it sound like his last good year was 3 seasons removed, when it was 1 full season ago.

1.5 for the end of the season, 2.5 from the beginning. Average is 2 years IMO. The dude is not gonna be that dude or he wouldn’t have been a street free agent.

Fluke thing like John Salmons on the Bucks or that Asian fella hooping for a minute there a few years back.

[Fritz]

Probably the best move for the franchise, but you lose a good player who was a leader and you move up two rounds so you can decide between either your next Sean Ryan or your next Oren Burks.

[Sparkey]

Douglas is now playing for his 7th team. Great players don't move that often. It was a good trade as it adds their day 2 pick allotment.

Probably a bigger part of the move is the $$ saved on next years cap. The Packers will be eating Bahk's contract ( 19 Mil dead money cap hit ) next year. They could also end up with another 12.3 mil in dead money if they move Aaron Jones.

All that dead cap space hurts in building experienced depth on the roster. How much better would the oline be if they had the 48 million Rodgers and Amos are using on this years cap ?

So that 7 mil they save on Douglas cap hit next year will help soften the hit from Bahks eventual dead cap hit.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Douglas is now playing for his 7th team. Great players don't move that often. It was a good trade as it adds their day 2 pick allotment.

Probably a bigger part of the move is the $$ saved on next years cap. The Packers will be eating Bahk's contract ( 19 Mil dead money cap hit ) next year. They could also end up with another 12.3 mil in dead money if they move Aaron Jones.

All that dead cap space hurts in building experienced depth on the roster. How much better would the oline be if they had the 48 million Rodgers and Amos are using on this years cap ?

So that 7 mil they save on Douglas cap hit next year will help soften the hit from Bahks eventual dead cap hit.

:) Packerrats is full of know-it-all capologists.

In 2024, Iranian Stallion’s cap hit is a bit under 40.6M. His infamous “dead cap” number, pre-June, is a bit under 19.1M.

The Packers will, in fact, gain a bit over 20M, cap-wise, simply by terminating the Iranian Stallion pre-June 1. Yeah, since the Packers are in a dreaded cap hell, gotta get rid of arguably their best corner to save 7M, you know, to soften the hit from an inevitable 20M cap saving.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

And, despite the 12.3M “dead cap,” the Packers will actually gain a tad over 4.8M in cap space by terminating the beloved Jones.

[Fosco33]

He played like shit in the Lions game. Sucks to be in rebuild mode - my only wish was we could’ve dumped Jaire and Preston as well.

[bobblehead]

1.5 for the end of the season, 2.5 from the beginning. Average is 2 years IMO. The dude is not gonna be that dude or he wouldn’t have been a street free agent.

Fluke thing like John Salmons on the Bucks or that Asian fella hooping for a minute there a few years back.

Except he is that dude. He plays at a very high level when he is on the field. Probably about the 15th best ILB in the NFL overall. Maybe better than that. And no, not 2.5. 1.5, He was all pro in 2021. That was the season. In 2022 he had some injury issues, but wasn't BAD when he played. That would be one season, not 2. This is 2023. He has been solid when on the field. And again, if the fatties in front of them did their job he would be even better.

[bobblehead]

Probably the best move for the franchise, but you lose a good player who was a leader and you move up two rounds so you can decide between either your next Sean Ryan or your next Oren Burks.

Except we didn't even move up 2 rounds. We moved up about 40 picks. Or 1.25 rounds.

[bobblehead]

Douglas is now playing for his 7th team. Great players don't move that often. It was a good trade as it adds their day 2 pick allotment.

Probably a bigger part of the move is the $$ saved on next years cap. The Packers will be eating Bahk's contract ( 19 Mil dead money cap hit ) next year. They could also end up with another 12.3 mil in dead money if they move Aaron Jones.

All that dead cap space hurts in building experienced depth on the roster. How much better would the oline be if they had the 48 million Rodgers and Amos are using on this years cap ?

So that 7 mil they save on Douglas cap hit next year will help soften the hit from Bahks eventual dead cap hit.

7th? I guess that may be true including practice squads. So what. James Harrison was a practice squad guy who became DPoY. Rasul currently is the 10th best CB in the NFL according to PFF. He has been nothing short of stud since he has been here. By trading him you create another hole on next years roster. I understood we would suck this year and a reset was in order, but you are almost making it impossible to be competitive NEXT year.

Rasul has a contract that is actually CHEAP based on the product he brings to the team. And again, not like we straight up got a 3rd for the 10th rated CB in the NFL, we moved up about 40 spots. So we effectively probably really got a middle to late 4th for him.

[bobblehead]

He played like shit in the Lions game. Sucks to be in rebuild mode - my only wish was we could’ve dumped Jaire and Preston as well.

Did you see that turd Maholmes laid sunday? Thats it, one bad game, trade him for nothing.

[Bretsky]

Did anybody see who was waling off the field and consoling Jordan Love at the end of last weeks game ? Yes, it was Douglas...aka....one of our team leaders.

He was a very good CB for us this year and we have little behind him. If we dump Preston, we have a DE who can get a lot more time. If we dump Campbell, they have a young guy they really like in McDuffie they really like. But what is behind Douglas ?

Truth be told, what Gutebag must have found out is nobody wanted either of those guys. Regardless, we moved up in the draft about 35 slots. I'd have rather just taken a extra 4th. What Gutebag 3rd round pick would you take over Douglas ?

If you throw enough crap against the wall something is bound to stick. And Gutebag has drafted a lot of crap over the years.

And when interviewed, Gutebag gave the standard shit answer for the deal.

Gutebag can go bye bye yesterday

[Bretsky]

Douglas is now playing for his 7th team. Great players don't move that often. It was a good trade as it adds their day 2 pick allotment.

Probably a bigger part of the move is the $$ saved on next years cap. The Packers will be eating Bahk's contract ( 19 Mil dead money cap hit ) next year. They could also end up with another 12.3 mil in dead money if they move Aaron Jones.

All that dead cap space hurts in building experienced depth on the roster. How much better would the oline be if they had the 48 million Rodgers and Amos are using on this years cap ?

So that 7 mil they save on Douglas cap hit next year will help soften the hit from Bahks eventual dead cap hit.



Team Leader

Best CB on our roster so far this year

Shit Deal

[sharpe1027]

The move id a bit of a head to me. I wonder if he was pushing hard to get out, causing problems in the locker room, or both.

That might explain it somewhat.

[Fosco33]

Did you see that turd Maholmes laid sunday? Thats it, one bad game, trade him for nothing.

We got a 3rd for a free agent - how’s that nothing?

He hasn’t been the same Rasul as 2 years ago - at least in my view. Kinda the same trajectory as Campbell (hot - then not).
And maybe he talked too much shit for the brass to handle - right or wrong.

I’ll stand by it and double down and am pissed we kept Jaire and Preston. Just like when we resigned Bacteria.

Better a year too soon. We’ll miss - like Hyde or TWill - but more the most part it works out.

[bobblehead]

We got a 3rd for a free agent - how’s that nothing?

He hasn’t been the same Rasul as 2 years ago - at least in my view. Kinda the same trajectory as Campbell (hot - then not).
And maybe he talked too much shit for the brass to handle - right or wrong.

I’ll stand by it and double down and am pissed we kept Jaire and Preston. Just like when we resigned Bacteria.

Better a year too soon. We’ll miss - like Hyde or TWill - but more the most part it works out.

For the umpteenth fucking time we did NOT GET A 3rd! We moved up about 40 spots max.

My prediction right now, you heard it here first. For years I advocated moving Micah Hyde to safety. For a year now I've advocated moving Douglas to safety. The Bills will enter the playoffs with 2 elite safeties.

Edit: And you might not believe it, but again, the PFF score had him as the 10th best CB in the entire league. Maybe their scoring favors him, but not to the point that he should be tradeable for what we just got.

[Fosco33]

Daddy, chill. I called that out in post 17. Just be loose w/ the words as I use an iPhone on the forum.

I don’t disagree at all - I think he could be a good or even really good safety.

But he was found to have more value to another team than the brass thought w/ GB. Happens a lot.

Should happen more w/ a shitty team imo.

[run pMc]

I mean technically, we did get a 3rd. We gave up Rasul and a R5 to get it.

They'll play Rasul at CB, not S. They lost TreDavious White to injury, and Elam has been a R1 bust. They need competent players in the secondary. BUF has been hit by injuries. Milano is out for the year and they just lost someone on the DL, IIRC.
Long term he might be a good choice at S. He's smart and has size to play the position, but it would take some time to learn how to play it. Not something you do with a veteran mid-season.

I find it hard to believe he's the #10 CB according to PFF. Their grades are hardly perfect, but generally they are spot on. He hasn't been bad, but there have been a few times where he's been burned this year, and I think that will only increase as he ages.
His contract was pretty good considering his performance, so BUF is getting a good player for not much. They only have him for 1.5 seasons though, and Day 2 picks have value for the 4 year cost control on the contract if nothing else.

His comments to the media and locker room presence were NOT a reason to trade him, everyone has said as much. Rasul didn't say anything crazy that would get him traded, and he didn't pull a Ty Montgomery or anything. This was just business.

I'm a little surprised people are so upset about this. Yeah, he's still a good player on a good contract, but GB has players in Valentine and Stokes they want to get snaps and value out of.
Rasul being on the roster doesn't make this team a SB contender. He'll be gone when the next playoff contender window opens for this team, might as well get some value for him now.

I think the Bills got the better side of the deal, assuming the R3 is cursed. If they end up getting the next Aaron Jones or a very good 8 year starter at RG out of the draft with the pick then GB is the clear winner.
(What if they used the cap space from trading Rasul to sign Saquon lol?)

Personally, I'd prefer Rasul be on the roster, especially with the Rams coming to town. He's gone, they got some draft capital and cap space for him, let's move on.

[Bretsky]

The move id a bit of a head to me. I wonder if he was pushing hard to get out, causing problems in the locker room, or both.

That might explain it somewhat.


NO

[Bretsky]

For the umpteenth fucking time we did NOT GET A 3rd! We moved up about 40 spots max.

My prediction right now, you heard it here first. For years I advocated moving Micah Hyde to safety. For a year now I've advocated moving Douglas to safety. The Bills will enter the playoffs with 2 elite safeties.

Edit: And you might not believe it, but again, the PFF score had him as the 10th best CB in the entire league. Maybe their scoring favors him, but not to the point that he should be tradeable for what we just got.



THIS

[Bretsky]

SEVERAL POINTS TO MAKE: first off throw this shit out the WIndow about Rasul being traded because he was a locker room problem.

Listen to Flower's interview on this; it really sounds like he was blindsided. Then go listen to Joe Barry; he absolutely loved Rasul and was blindsided as well. While the coaches said "it was a business decision and as coaches we know this can occur" there was no effort on their behalf to note they bought into this.

Next, and this was to be expected, Rasul was blindsided. Listen to his interview. He basically said Gute called him, perhaps a bit awkward...no warmup..and said...ah we traded you. Rasul hung up on him as he thought it was a Halloween prank. Then Marcia Murphy called him and verified it was legit.

It was Tuesday, and Rasul had to go and clean his locker out and get going. Tuesday nights are bare in GB; Flower tells the players to go home spend time with their family, and get away on Tuesday nights.

So what happened this Tuesday night.....several Packers....came in....on their free time to remines with Rasul. Sounds like Aaron Jones was about the first....sounds like they chatted and cried together. Then the returner and fellow secondary players.....several young guys came in to thank Rasul, and wish him their best. Wilde, Tausch, and another Packer beat (Mike Clement I think) all noted this was pretty much unheard of after a trade. And things were very somber and that went into Wednesday.


OK, enough of my rant on this, which I still feel was a shit deal IMO.....partly because they have no quality behind him (also why I'd have been ok with Preston)

Gute threw out that shit for logistics and reference the process again.....he did this knowing it hurts Green Bay. Same Mentality as that shit Brewers Hader trade.

I don't know how else to interpret this other than...Gute really doesn't care about winning this year. We should have all seen this coming when he discussed why he was not considering bringing Mercedes Lewis back. This is a full rebuild by Gute's choice.

I'm not sure why I'm even upset.....maybe it's because I think Gute was fleeced by Buffalo. and I don't want a F'ckin 3rd round draft pick for him to draft another sack of shit with....which....is the thing Gutebag seems to consistently do well....F'ck up in round 3.

Gutebag is just embracing what I suggested we do much earlier....aka....EMBRACE THE TANK

[Vincenzo]

You kill me Bretsky. Good read tho man, especially this:

“ Gutebag is just embracing what I suggested we do much earlier....aka....EMBRACE THE TANK.”

[Vincenzo]

Embrace the Tank.

[Vincenzo]

Embrace it

[ThunderDan]

I don’t like the trade but I understand it. It makes our team worse in the short run but hopefully better longterm.

[Fritz]

I don’t like the trade but I understand it. It makes our team worse in the short run but hopefully better longterm.

Right, except I am becoming more leery of Guter’s drafting ability.

[Bretsky]

Right, except I am becoming more leery of Guter’s drafting ability.


Stop being a sally Fritz; let's just say it together. Gutebag kinda sucks in the draft.

[ThunderDan]

Right, except I am becoming more leery of Guter’s drafting ability.

That is why I used the word hopefully.

[Joemailman]

Except we didn't even move up 2 rounds. We moved up about 40 picks. Or 1.25 rounds.

I think in Gute's mind he did move up 2 rounds. I think for Gute to make this move means he feels there is going to be real value in the 3rd round, which means a strong draft, and comp picks will give him plenty of Day 3 picks. That is likely right. Last year was considered by most a weak draft, so it's likely to be stronger this year.

[Fritz]

Stop being a sally Fritz; let's just say it together. Gutebag kinda sucks in the draft.

Here’s an article supporting your claim:

https://lastwordonsports.com/nfl/2023/11/03/brian-gutekunst-green-bay-packers-missteps/amp/

[bobblehead]

Bretsky mentions one other thing that has bugged me since preseason. The decision NOT to bring back Mercedes. For me it has nothing to do with his talent on the field at this point, but you brought in 2 rookie TEs (3 with sims later) and you don't want a pros pro showing them how its done? Douglas relentlessly studied film. Didn't bother with trash talk, just let his play talk. Was a willing tackler. Everything you want the young guys to emulate....thats who we traded.

I didn't like Gutes from the start, but couldn't argue with on field success. Now I'm starting to think he doesn't know shit about building a locker room. I won't slam the door on him just yet, but the best players on our teams were TT guys (for all you TT bashers). As the TT talent left Gutes spent a ton of money to stay competitive while the young talent didn't come through. As we lost them one by one, Bulaga, Linsley, Adams, Rodgers and soon Jones and Clark we are getting worse results. Gutes ran us against the realistic stretching of the cap to keep winning, but the cupboards were bare.

So here we are, restocking. It had to happen and it will define Gutes. I like a lot of the young talent. I think we have a shot next year to be much better. But without the Rasuls and Mercedes around to teach them, it could go a totally different way.

[Bretsky]

You kill me Bretsky. Good read tho man, especially this:

“ Gutebag is just embracing what I suggested we do much earlier....aka....EMBRACE THE TANK.”


I'm here to stir pots and for entertainment value :)))

[Bretsky]

Bretsky mentions one other thing that has bugged me since preseason. The decision NOT to bring back Mercedes. For me it has nothing to do with his talent on the field at this point, but you brought in 2 rookie TEs (3 with sims later) and you don't want a pros pro showing them how its done? Douglas relentlessly studied film. Didn't bother with trash talk, just let his play talk. Was a willing tackler. Everything you want the young guys to emulate....thats who we traded.

I didn't like Gutes from the start, but couldn't argue with on field success. Now I'm starting to think he doesn't know shit about building a locker room. I won't slam the door on him just yet, but the best players on our teams were TT guys (for all you TT bashers). As the TT talent left Gutes spent a ton of money to stay competitive while the young talent didn't come through. As we lost them one by one, Bulaga, Linsley, Adams, Rodgers and soon Jones and Clark we are getting worse results. Gutes ran us against the realistic stretching of the cap to keep winning, but the cupboards were bare.

So here we are, restocking. It had to happen and it will define Gutes. I like a lot of the young talent. I think we have a shot next year to be much better. But without the Rasuls and Mercedes around to teach them, it could go a totally different way.


It's like Gutebag finds no value in leaders of this young team. I never though Marcedes was a great player, but he was a Great F'cking Blocker at TE and a leader on and off the field. In the last couple weeks we had all kinds of OL forgetting their assigments and whiffing. Our rushing offense is horrible for many reasons, but not having a TE with any interest in blocking is one of the big ones.

Does Gute thing our coaching staff is so strong he places no value at all in team leaders ? I sure don't. I wasn't a fan of Gute early, and the past couple years I've flipped back and forth. But lately, I'm thinking having a HOF QB like Aaron Rodgers covered up a lot of Gutebag's deficiencies. And as an effective communicator and leader, I think Gutebag has next to nothing. And I don't wanna go back here again, but the system Marcia Murphy set up, with the people he has it it, just sucks as well.

Trading Rasul, who could have several years left of good play, for what we got, to me was a desperation move that sends terrible messages inside that locker room.

I"m on the verge, of geting the keys, boarding, and starting to sell the tickets to ride the Bye Bye Gutebag Bus with me.

[Teamcheez1]

A 39 year old TE is not worth keeping. 2 catches for 24 yards on a team as bad as we are.
I liked Rasul, but IMO, he has maybe 1 or 2 good years left.
I would have tried to unload Jones and Smith this year too.

Getting rid of Gute is certainly worth discussion at the end of this year.

[Bretsky]

A 39 year old TE is not worth keeping. 2 catches for 24 yards on a team as bad as we are.
I liked Rasul, but IMO, he has maybe 1 or 2 good years left.
I would have tried to unload Jones and Smith this year too.

Getting rid of Gute is certainly worth discussion at the end of this year.



Rasul is just 29 and could have several good years left
You are missing the value of Lewis completely IMO
Odds are nobody wanted Preston or Jones or we've have two more 5th round draft picks

[Sparkey]

Rasul is just 29 and could have several good years left
You are missing the value of Lewis completely IMO
Odds are nobody wanted Preston or Jones or we've have two more 5th round draft picks

It wouldn't matter if a team was interested. The Packers didn't have the cap room available to trade Smith or Jones.

[ThunderDan]

It wouldn't matter if a team was interested. The Packers didn't have the cap room available to trade Smith or Jones.

Exactly, if we traded Jones we would have been $2,000,000 over the cap. 4 Mil over if we traded Smith.

[Bretsky]

Exactly, if we traded Jones we would have been $2,000,000 over the cap. 4 Mil over if we traded Smith.

Everybody was reporting we were trying to shop Preston and that's get Van Ness max opportunity
I'm sure there was a way; perhaps converting something to a signing bonus or something

[Joemailman]

Everybody was reporting we were trying to shop Preston and that's get Van Ness max opportunity
I'm sure there was a way; perhaps converting something to a signing bonus or something

Actually trading Smith would have cleared a little cap space this year. It would have created a bunch of dead cap next year.

[Patler]

General comments on remarks in this thread:

I hated to see Douglas go, but......

Moving from the 5th round to the 3rd round is more significant than has been implied. I think some of you are forgetting that there will be 10 or so compensatory draft picks awarded at the ends of the 3rd and 4th rounds. Even if the move is from #1 in round 5 to #32 in round 3, it will likely be more than 40 spots.

The added draft capital can be bundled with others in trades. Maybe from round 2 back into late round 1, both 3s to mid round 2, etc. They will now have a lot more flexibility to maneuver around in the draft.

I suspect the thinking was Douglas would be released next offseason anyway for cap management purposes. Any more wins he would aid in this year are meaningless. Might as well see if Valentine or Stokes when he returns can be the guy for 2024 and beyond. 2023 is a player evaluation year.

This was probably the right thing to dp, given the situation.

[Fritz]

General comments on remarks in this thread:

I hated to see Douglas go, but......

Moving from the 5th round to the 3rd round is more significant than has been implied. I think some of you are forgetting that there will be 10 or so compensatory draft picks awarded at the ends of the 3rd and 4th rounds. Even if the move is from #1 in round 5 to #32 in round 3, it will likely be more than 40 spots.

The added draft capital can be bundled with others in trades. Maybe from round 2 back into late round 1, both 3s to mid round 2, etc. They will now have a lot more flexibility to maneuver around in the draft.

I suspect the thinking was Douglas would be released next offseason anyway for cap management purposes. Any more wins he would aid in this year are meaningless. Might as well see if Valentine or Stokes when he returns can be the guy for 2024 and beyond. 2023 is a player evaluation year.

This was probably the right thing to dp, given the situation.

And how happy would any of us be if Guter did what his counterpart in Chicago just did?? They traded a second-round pick for a Rashan-Gary-like pass rusher and gave him a big extension. And the are 2 - 6. Was that a good move? I wonder what Packer fans think.

[Fosco33]

And how happy would any of us be if Guter did what his counterpart in Chicago just did?? They traded a second-round pick for a Rashan-Gary-like pass rusher and gave him a big extension. And the are 2 - 6. Was that a good move? I wonder what Packer fans think.

How’s their cap and free agency looking? We’ll be through now 65m of Cap and another 20m for Bacteria.

We need a vet WR, TE, LT and at least a decent backup QB. That’s like 30m needed alone.

We have like a dozen players entering FE and imagine we need another 20m for some of those folks (Nixon, Savage, Yosh).

[King Friday]

What the Bears did was dumb. Giving up draft capital AND paying top dollar means that Sweat better play like LT next season.

[red]

General comments on remarks in this thread:

I hated to see Douglas go, but......

Moving from the 5th round to the 3rd round is more significant than has been implied. I think some of you are forgetting that there will be 10 or so compensatory draft picks awarded at the ends of the 3rd and 4th rounds. Even if the move is from #1 in round 5 to #32 in round 3, it will likely be more than 40 spots.

The added draft capital can be bundled with others in trades. Maybe from round 2 back into late round 1, both 3s to mid round 2, etc. They will now have a lot more flexibility to maneuver around in the draft.

I suspect the thinking was Douglas would be released next offseason anyway for cap management purposes. Any more wins he would aid in this year are meaningless. Might as well see if Valentine or Stokes when he returns can be the guy for 2024 and beyond. 2023 is a player evaluation year.

This was probably the right thing to dp, given the situation.

wait????

where the fuck did patler come from?

[King Friday]

This was probably the right thing to dp, given the situation.

When did Patler become an expert on double penetration?

[ThunderDan]

Wrong thread.

[MadtownPacker]

Looked like an upgrade on the field to me.

[RashanGary]

Looked like an upgrade on the field to me.

Yeah. And sometimes if you’re robbing a bank, you have to go in and shoot one of their friends right away to show them you mean business. Axing ‘Sul was a message.

[MadtownPacker]

I thought it was to let him go play with a contender and avoid him turning malcontent around the young guys. Maybe to get good PR with NFL players. Likely had been some shit talking by him behind closed doors. Probably a wacko like you. :lol:

[bobblehead]

General comments on remarks in this thread:

I hated to see Douglas go, but......

Moving from the 5th round to the 3rd round is more significant than has been implied. I think some of you are forgetting that there will be 10 or so compensatory draft picks awarded at the ends of the 3rd and 4th rounds. Even if the move is from #1 in round 5 to #32 in round 3, it will likely be more than 40 spots.

The added draft capital can be bundled with others in trades. Maybe from round 2 back into late round 1, both 3s to mid round 2, etc. They will now have a lot more flexibility to maneuver around in the draft.

I suspect the thinking was Douglas would be released next offseason anyway for cap management purposes. Any more wins he would aid in this year are meaningless. Might as well see if Valentine or Stokes when he returns can be the guy for 2024 and beyond. 2023 is a player evaluation year.

This was probably the right thing to dp, given the situation.

I did forget about all the comp picks, so thats a fair point. I disagree that they would have released him after the season though. And if they had it would have been a bad move. I believe that if the organic improvement happens this team will be in the thick of the playoffs next season and pro like Douglas would have been invaluable. As for added maneuverability, we already have an extra 2nd, and now we are light a 5th. Yes, it adds some, I just don't think it was worth it.

Today we beat a bad Rams team with a jag QB and a PS RB. Also teams coming off playing the cowboys physical D are 1-7 v. the spread this year. I heard that and bet the Pack today. But the team did what they needed to. I can't fault them for that. There is still a lot of room to improve. Still some holes that can't be fixed within the current roster. I'm still hoping that they draft some serious OL help early next year.

[texaspackerbacker]

I hated to see Douglas go also. Do you suppose the quality of Carrington Valentine had anything to do with the trade? He played damn good in the preseason, and he played damn good against the Rams. Maybe, Gutekunst and LaFleur know more than the dumbass negativists in here give them credit for.

[run pMc]

Agree with patler - hated to see Rasul go, but was probably the right move. There is a big difference between a R3 and R5 pick, and GB will get comp pick(s) for Lazard and others who signed elsewhere. They'll have plenty of draft ammo to move around or get (hopefully) better/cheaper and younger.
Sul was a good locker room guy and a leader on the team, it hurts to lose those guys but Gute did him a favor sending him to a playoff caliber team.

Montez Sweat basically got Rashan Gary money. He's a good player and will help their DL, but they had to give up a R2 for that. Given the pass rushers likely to come out this next draft, it might not be a bad move. Sweat is probably as good if not better than any of them. They just won't get surplus value for him because of the draft pick and big salary.

[Bretsky]

I hated to see Douglas go also. Do you suppose the quality of Carrington Valentine had anything to do with the trade? He played damn good in the preseason, and he played damn good against the Rams. Maybe, Gutekunst and LaFleur know more than the dumbass negativists in here give them credit for.


This could be the case.

[bobblehead]

Stokes to IR, season over. Jaire suspended for being a bitch. Playoffs on the line. Gutes should be forced to answer why trading a pros pro for a later 3rd was too good to pass up.

[call_me_ishmael]

Stokes to IR, season over. Jaire suspended for being a bitch. Playoffs on the line. Gutes should be forced to answer why trading a pros pro for a later 3rd was too good to pass up.

'cause they're not playing for this year. They kinda want to lose.

[Bretsky]

Stokes to IR, season over. Jaire suspended for being a bitch. Playoffs on the line. Gutes should be forced to answer why trading a pros pro for a later 3rd was too good to pass up.

Gute was going to cute Rasul next year; that was the consensus with the media.

But it was crap; he was worth the money and on a team that doesn't have many leaders they lost a really good one

[texaspackerbacker]

It sure would be interesting to know WHO was the primary one pushing for Douglas to be traded - LaFleur, Barry, Gutekunst? And WHAT their reason was.

[Bretsky]

It sure would be interesting to know WHO was the primary one pushing for Douglas to be traded - LaFleur, Barry, Gutekunst? And WHAT their reason was.



IMO it was undoubtedly GUTEBAG

Go check out the interviews with the coaching staff afterword. Both sounded very unhappy and came out with the it's a business/it is what it is attitude.

Just the week before MFL tried leaning on Rasul and Preston to help send massages to the younger players. RASUL was a coaches fave.

This was all GUTER;in the inverview he said he was not looking to do it but the Bills called late and gave an offer that was too good to turn down. Personallly I didn't think it was that great

[RashanGary]

IMO it was undoubtedly GUTEBAG

Go check out the interviews with the coaching staff afterword. Both sounded very unhappy and came out with the it's a business/it is what it is attitude.

Just the week before MFL tried leaning on Rasul and Preston to help send massages to the younger players. RASUL was a coaches fave.

This was all GUTER;in the inverview he said he was not looking to do it but the Bills called late and gave an offer that was too good to turn down. Personallly I didn't think it was that great

It was Gute. He was admirably embracing the tank. But it looks like a bad call because this team is probably closer next year than it seemed. Rasul would have had at least one more good year in him. And it’s possible now the shoddy secondary could be the reason we don’t make it next year.

[texaspackerbacker]

Rasul is having a big game today.

[bobblehead]

Yep, 2 picks last I saw. But seriously, who could have predicted the guy who was the #10 CB in PFF rankings would be a valuable commodity.

[run pMc]

BUF needed bodies at CB, they were decimated there. A R3 pick is pretty good for a 29 year old CB who doesn't have great speed and gambles. He's very smart, can be a ballhawk, and seems like a good dude/leader in the locker room. I wish him nothing but success and enjoyed his play as a Packer. He's had a good season and the Packers would have benefitted this year by keeping him.

I think at the time GB's playoff chances looked bad and getting a Day 2 pick and cap relief is a win.

They can use that pick to draft a CB who will be younger and cheaper. Definitely doesn't help them now, but I think almost every move this year is made with the future in mind. Specifically on the offense.

[bobblehead]

BUF needed bodies at CB, they were decimated there. A R3 pick is pretty good for a 29 year old CB who doesn't have great speed and gambles. He's very smart, can be a ballhawk, and seems like a good dude/leader in the locker room. I wish him nothing but success and enjoyed his play as a Packer. He's had a good season and the Packers would have benefitted this year by keeping him.

I think at the time GB's playoff chances looked bad and getting a Day 2 pick and cap relief is a win.

They can use that pick to draft a CB who will be younger and cheaper. Definitely doesn't help them now, but I think almost every move this year is made with the future in mind. Specifically on the offense.

You are doing what so many have done. We didn't get a 3rd for Douglas. We got a 3rd for Douglas and a 4th. I will forever view this as a shit trade.

[RashanGary]

If we get a 22 year old borderline probowler with that 3rd round pick, it’ll feel alright.

[RashanGary]

Gute has a feel for where the strength is in the draft. Maybe he feels like that’s a sweet spot and wants another shot in that area. I know a year or two back there was some sort of reason the drafts were a little thinner and the depth was supposed to be up this year.

[Joemailman]

Gute has a feel for where the strength is in the draft. Maybe he feels like that’s a sweet spot and wants another shot in that area. I know a year or two back there was some sort of reason the drafts were a little thinner and the depth was supposed to be up this year.

That's what I think. That trade suggests Gute feels there's good value in the 3rd round, but not in the 5th round.

[call_me_ishmael]

If we get a 22 year old borderline probowler with that 3rd round pick, it’ll feel alright.

Seems like about a 1/30 chance, no? Especially at 22. Maybe 1/10 at 27 or so.

[Bretsky]

If we get a 22 year old borderline probowler with that 3rd round pick, it’ll feel alright.

When is the last time we got that out of a 3rd round draft pick ?

[RashanGary]

When is the last time we got that out of a 3rd round draft pick ?

This year :wink:

[Patler]

You are doing what so many have done. We didn't get a 3rd for Douglas. We got a 3rd for Douglas and a 4th. I will forever view this as a shit trade.

I thought it was the Packers 5th, not 4th? Right now it looks like a move of about 70 spots if it is the Packers 5th. That's very significant, in my opinion.

[run pMc]

Rasul and a R5 pick were traded, not a R4.
Gute was approached by BUF, he wasn't actively trying to ship Rasul off. It was, in his opinion, too good to pass up. At the time GB was 2-5 and looked pretty lost.

"Obviously in the short term, you lose a good player. That's tough. But, at the same time, looking long term, it's going to be in our best interests." - Gute

You can be mad about it or say it was a bad trade, but it's done. Ultimately I'm not sure how much it has really hurt GB. Won't be able to determine if it was a good trade for a year or more.

[sharpe1027]

Teams aren't going to trade for bad players intentionally, so yeah, we gave up a decent player.
Packers moved up 70 spots for a guy that was slightly better than his backup and was gone next year. Also, they weren't looking likely to get into the playoffs until this last run of form.

[Joemailman]

For whatever reason, Rasul wasn't having a good year. Opposing QB's had a passer rating of 109 when targeting him. Valentine and Ballentine have both played considerably better. Rasul's base salary for 2024 was over 6 million. When contacted by Buffalo, I think Gute saw a chance to get something for a guy he was probably going to let go anyway.

[run pMc]

I think Rasul's had a better year than Jaire, injury aside.
Trading Rasul opened a path for Valentine and/or Stokes (who is in trouble IMO) to get snaps as well.

I absolutely think they will draft a CB...preferably one who can play both outside and in the slot.
I think Jaire will be focused after the suspension and next year, I think Valentine will improve. Stokes injuries are concerning, especially for a player who relies so much on his athleticism and speed to cover. He might never be the same.

I love Rasul but he wasn't a fit in their long term plans.

[bobblehead]

If we get a 22 year old borderline probowler with that 3rd round pick, it’ll feel alright.

If you stand on 11 against a ten and win was it the right move??

[bobblehead]

I thought it was the Packers 5th, not 4th? Right now it looks like a move of about 70 spots if it is the Packers 5th. That's very significant, in my opinion.

I just looked it up. You are half correct, it was a 5th. According to the article they should move up roughly 47 spots. You also once pointed out the comp picks so maybe more like 55. Its not nothing, but its no where near Douglas' value.

[bobblehead]

For whatever reason, Rasul wasn't having a good year. Opposing QB's had a passer rating of 109 when targeting him. Valentine and Ballentine have both played considerably better. Rasul's base salary for 2024 was over 6 million. When contacted by Buffalo, I think Gute saw a chance to get something for a guy he was probably going to let go anyway.

According to PFF Rasul was the 10th ranked CB at the time of the trade.

[run pMc]

Bobble, as I understand it you're not against the trading of Rasul, just what he was traded for? I think that's fair.

If it makes you feel better,

the Rams traded Jalen Ramsey for a R3 and TE Hunter Long.
Stephon Gilmore was tradeed to DAL for a R5 pick.

Outside the CB position, Chase Young went for a R3, Montez for a R2. Picture trading Rasul and a R5 for Chase Young, or Rasul and Ben Sims for Jalen Ramsey.

I'm not saying these are all good trades or obviously fair value, but it's what they went for. Fans tend to overvalue players on the team they follow, and I'm certain fans value players differently than the FO.

It's all kinds of goofy, I can't figure it out either. I thought they didn't get a lot for Rasul either, but it's not bad if you compare around the league.

And yes, Rasul has been good this year. He's helped out BUF and was good for GB before that.

[Fritz]

I just looked it up. You are half correct, it was a 5th. According to the article they should move up roughly 47 spots. You also once pointed out the comp picks so maybe more like 55. Its not nothing, but its no where near Douglas' value.

I wish you had been the Buffalo GM.

[Patler]

I just looked it up. You are half correct, it was a 5th. According to the article they should move up roughly 47 spots. You also once pointed out the comp picks so maybe more like 55. Its not nothing, but its no where near Douglas' value.

I think I'm fully correct! :)
How old is the article you read? Were they assuming GB would be in the top of the rounds?

If the draft were held on the current records, they would move from 19th in the 5th to 24th in the 3rd. Thats nearly 60 more players available to them just there. Then add in the comp picks at the ends of the 3rd and 4th rounds they will also leap frog (10 or so, give or take) and you get close to 70.

[run pMc]

All I know is GB has 5 picks in the top 100, which is not nothing for a team that has needs.

[Bretsky]

For whatever reason, Rasul wasn't having a good year. Opposing QB's had a passer rating of 109 when targeting him. Valentine and Ballentine have both played considerably better. Rasul's base salary for 2024 was over 6 million. When contacted by Buffalo, I think Gute saw a chance to get something for a guy he was probably going to let go anyway.


6MIL for Rasul seems like a good value in 2024

[bobblehead]

Bobble, as I understand it you're not against the trading of Rasul, just what he was traded for? I think that's fair.

If it makes you feel better,

the Rams traded Jalen Ramsey for a R3 and TE Hunter Long.
Stephon Gilmore was tradeed to DAL for a R5 pick.

Outside the CB position, Chase Young went for a R3, Montez for a R2. Picture trading Rasul and a R5 for Chase Young, or Rasul and Ben Sims for Jalen Ramsey.

I'm not saying these are all good trades or obviously fair value, but it's what they went for. Fans tend to overvalue players on the team they follow, and I'm certain fans value players differently than the FO.

It's all kinds of goofy, I can't figure it out either. I thought they didn't get a lot for Rasul either, but it's not bad if you compare around the league.

And yes, Rasul has been good this year. He's helped out BUF and was good for GB before that.

I'm not against trading anyone if the price is right. Ramsey is a cancer, that is why he was traded for a song. Chase Young should never have gone for a 3rd. Montez was about to get paid so it made a little more sense, but again, would you take a 2nd for Gary right before we signed him? Comparing things that the GM of the Commanders did to "good moves" should get you a one week suspension :)

[MadtownPacker]

Rasul out…

[texaspackerbacker]

Was Douglas just a "hired gun"? Or is he under contract into next season or more? If he's a free agent, is it likely the Packers sign him again?

[Bretsky]

Was Douglas just a "hired gun"? Or is he under contract into next season or more? If he's a free agent, is it likely the Packers sign him again?

He is under contract for next year as well

[RashanGary]

If you stand on 11 against a ten and win was it the right move??

Haha, yeah, this is a good point. He’s not fast enough in his prime and is aging. He kind of has a limited time left in the league. Assuming Rasul for several years vs a draft pick that is most likely a bust, the odds are in the favor of Sul. But if you have a 25% chance to land a 10 year player vs 100% chance of having a 2 year player. Plus the rookie contact weighted in. I’m not so sure the odds are as fully in your favor as you think here.

[sharpe1027]

What did we give up really? Has there been a dropoff in the Packers' defense because of this trade? If no, then it was just depth.

[smuggler]

According to OTC (https://overthecap.com/compensatory-picks), there are six total 3rd/4th round comp picks projected. We'll know the real delta between the picks after the playoffs, regardless.

[RashanGary]

What did we give up really? Has there been a dropoff in the Packers' defense because of this trade? If no, then it was just depth.

It’s a short term loss for a 30% chance at a better younger player. Rasul isn’t Charles Woodson. He’s a 28 year old aging CB who didn’t have enough speed in his prime to be able to hang on much longer.

We lost a decent secondary player this year and MAYBE next year.

Gute is on fire right now in the draft. He’s coming up with clutch hit after clutch hit. I’m ok letting that guy come to the plate and take a swing at a fastball on the corner (3rd round pick) instead of trying to hit a perfectly place curve ball that barely touches the top of the strike zone (5th round pick)

[sharpe1027]

It's a loss, but we didn't give up that much if the level of play was about the same before and after the trade.

[bobblehead]

It's a loss, but we didn't give up that much if the level of play was about the same before and after the trade.

Since we suck ass on D, by that logic, we could trade anyone for a 7th

[sharpe1027]

Since we suck ass on D, by that logic, we could trade anyone for a 7th

No, trading other players would have made a bigger difference. We could be much worse. For example, if Gary was out all year.

If the results of the game don't change after the trade, how's it a loss to the team?

[Fosco33]

I like Rasul and was fine with the trade.

And this by no means is anything other than interesting…

We were 2-5 at the trade deadline when we got some value for him.
And we were 7-3 after the trade.

Are we a better current team without him? Probably not. We might be in the future though. But I’d also be hard pressed to say we would’ve won more games with him either.

[bobblehead]

No, trading other players would have made a bigger difference. We could be much worse. For example, if Gary was out all year.

If the results of the game don't change after the trade, how's it a loss to the team?

Our defense hasn't stopped anyone. If Gary were out we wouldn't stop anyone.

[bobblehead]

I like Rasul and was fine with the trade.

And this by no means is anything other than interesting…

We were 2-5 at the trade deadline when we got some value for him.
And we were 7-3 after the trade.

Are we a better current team without him? Probably not. We might be in the future though. But I’d also be hard pressed to say we would’ve won more games with him either.

How have the Bills been before and after the trade??

[run pMc]

How have the Bills been before and after the trade??

Not bad. They beat MIA for the AFCN division crown and have won 5 in a row.
I think Joe Barry could have in their Prime Deion and Woodson at CB and he'd make them play 8 yards off.

The 'Allentines or any half competent CB can do that too.

Barry's D will get exposed vs. DAL and we'll all go back to griping about it.

[texaspackerbacker]

We definitely are gonna see a big contrast in this game about how to deploy your Corners. Back off like Barry tends to which means giving up a LOT of pass plays in front of you but mostly stopping big plays OR play up, take some chances, get some picks, but also risk giving up more big plays - Dallas's way, Whitt's way, Al Harris' way.

I'm kinda on the fence about this. The answer, of course, is do some of both, but then you get into a guessing game with the offense or risk having a sharp QB like Rodgers or Love diagnose what you're doing on that play and taking advantage.

[run pMc]

If they rush 4 and drop 7 and play vanilla zones Dallas will carve them up. They will have to send some pressure or come up with some disguises and wrinkles to throw Dak off his game a little.
Probably will be a shootout.

[Sparkey]

It is, as always, about pressure. Ideally up the middle. Clark and Wyatt need to have big games. Then really focus on bracket coverage on Lamb.

[sharpe1027]

Our defense hasn't stopped anyone. If Gary were out we wouldn't stop anyone.

That's hyperbole. They would have lost every single game if they never stopped anyone, so as bad as they were, they could have been worse.

[bobblehead]

If they rush 4 and drop 7 and play vanilla zones Dallas will carve them up. They will have to send some pressure or come up with some disguises and wrinkles to throw Dak off his game a little.
Probably will be a shootout.

If fat mike abandons the run like he is prone to do, Gary, Smith, Clark, Wyatt, Brooks can just pin back the ears. We can get after the passer when we don't worry about the run. How committed fat boy is to the run will probably dictate if we win this game or not. If he forgets that running is an option, they probably only score 24-27 on us and we have a shot.

Lets be honest, based on play this season we are over matched. But if fat mike has shown me nothing, he has shown me he can coach his way out of the playoffs.

[bobblehead]

That's hyperbole. They would have lost every single game if they never stopped anyone, so as bad as they were, they could have been worse.

Right...but its also hyperbole to say we didn't suffer for losing Douglas. We did....and in the playoffs I would really like to have him.

Its ok if you use hyperbole, just don't call me out when I do it back like I'm the bad guy.

[run pMc]

At least some of the JSO beat writers thought Rasul would likely be cut for cap space this offseason. If true, getting trading to get another pick inside the top 100 isn't bad.

[RashanGary]

Gute and his team have been absolutely crushing the ball the last two years. I don’t know how many home runs they have, but they’re hitting for sick average with a lot of doubles at the minimum.

Something tells me Gute is gonna come up with a clutch hit on this pick

[Fritz]

If fat mike abandons the run like he is prone to do, Gary, Smith, Clark, Wyatt, Brooks can just pin back the ears. We can get after the passer when we don't worry about the run. How committed fat boy is to the run will probably dictate if we win this game or not. If he forgets that running is an option, they probably only score 24-27 on us and we have a shot.

Lets be honest, based on play this season we are over matched. But if fat mike has shown me nothing, he has shown me he can coach his way out of the playoffs.

My cousin is a huge Dallas fan. I told him we Packer fans used to call him "Fat Mike." He told me Cowboys' fans call him "Dumb Fat Mike."

I have been thinking along the same lines as you - in a tight game, Mikey used to abandon the run. IF the Packers can keep it close and Mikey does that, the Pack has a chance. That, or if the Packers can get out to a lead in the second quarter.

PS - Bobble, just go ahead and take that 'bad guy' role. What the hell, right?

[texaspackerbacker]

Most Cowboy fans I know are glad to have McCarthy and more glad to have Jerry Jones effectively as GM. They should be.

[Patler]

I doubt they would have made the trade if they had suspected any one of the following:

- the season would abruptly pivot toward a run to the playoffs.
- Alexander would have a lost season and be questionable for the playoffs.
- Stokes would be unable to get away from IR.

That all have occurred is unfortunate.

The way I looked at it at the time was that they had 3 starters (Alaxander, Douglas, Stokes) and one potential starter (Vallentine) for just two spots, since none seemed right for slot or a move to safety. They also seemed to have the backup/ST guy in Ballentine. The only one tradeable for value was Douglas, so they made the move.

I am OK with it. Roster management is always a mixture of looking at the present and building for the future. Two months ago it leaned strongly toward building for the future and making the trade supported that.

[bobblehead]

Patler, of those 3, only the pivot was unlikely in most eyes. Jaire has had trouble staying on the field for quite some time now and gave no indication it was going to change. Stokes might NEVER be the same again.

I get that the cap purge/fix was on and that factored in a lot. But even if this season was a loss, for his level of play Rasul is on a decent contract. I would be surprised if the Bills cut him after the season. He is also closing in on 30 and at CB that means the end is near. But again, I am not only going to miss him Sunday, but all next year as well.

[RashanGary]

Patler, of those 3, only the pivot was unlikely in most eyes. Jaire has had trouble staying on the field for quite some time now and gave no indication it was going to change. Stokes might NEVER be the same again.

I get that the cap purge/fix was on and that factored in a lot. But even if this season was a loss, for his level of play Rasul is on a decent contract. I would be surprised if the Bills cut him after the season. He is also closing in on 30 and at CB that means the end is near. But again, I am not only going to miss him Sunday, but all next year as well.

In the grand scheme, two years of a solid player on a decent contract is like winning a small pot. The draft pick has a chance to be a loss of that small pot or an equal win or a much bigger win. Let’s just see it play out before we start counting the loss without measuring the gain.

[sharpe1027]

Right...but its also hyperbole to say we didn't suffer for losing Douglas. We did....and in the playoffs I would really like to have him.

Its ok if you use hyperbole, just don't call me out when I do it back like I'm the bad guy.

I was assessing what we really lost. I suggested the drop-off in play wasn't very noticable and it probably didn't change the outcomesof any games.

You tell me if that's equivalent as saying out defense hasn't stopped anyone, so losing our most dominant pass rusher wouldn't have mattered.

[Patler]

I thought it was the Packers 5th, not 4th? Right now it looks like a move of about 70 spots if it is the Packers 5th. That's very significant, in my opinion.


I just looked it up. You are half correct, it was a 5th. According to the article they should move up roughly 47 spots. You also once pointed out the comp picks so maybe more like 55. Its not nothing, but its no where near Douglas' value.


I think I'm fully correct! :)
How old is the article you read? Were they assuming GB would be in the top of the rounds?

If the draft were held on the current records, they would move from 19th in the 5th to 24th in the 3rd. Thats nearly 60 more players available to them just there. Then add in the comp picks at the ends of the 3rd and 4th rounds they will also leap frog (10 or so, give or take) and you get close to 70.

Now we know.
Packers received pick #91 from the Bills.
Bills received pick #159 from Green Bay.
A move of 68 picks for Douglas.

[Frozen Tundra]

Now we know.
Packers received pick #91 from the Bills.
Bills received pick #159 from Green Bay.
A move of 68 picks for Douglas.

Considering where we are at safety now, I'm not so sure I wouldn't like to have just kept Rasul and picked #159.

But hindsight is easy. Things looked a lot different that week.

[Patler]

Considering where we are at safety now, I'm not so sure I wouldn't like to have just kept Rasul and picked #159.

But hindsight is easy. Things looked a lot different that week.

I liked Douglas, but don't see how having him would improve the outlook at safety. Having the higher draft pick might be a better asset to use for improving the safety position.

[Joemailman]

Trading Rasul didn't hurt the Packers at all. Valentine and Ballentine played statistically better than Rasul had been playing. Rasul played much better for the Bills than he had been playing for the Packers. Gute cleared some cap space and got a 3rd round pick while giving up a 5th. Valentine and Ballentine gained some valuable experience. The Packers secondary is in better shape going into 2024 because of that trade.

[MadtownPacker]

Agreed Mr. Cartero, have to cut some big branches sometimes so the tree grows stronger over time.

[Fritz]

Now they just need to scour the draft for a corner or safety whose last name rhymes with “Valentine” and “Ballentine.”

I know how to build a roster.

[bobblehead]

Now we know.
Packers received pick #91 from the Bills.
Bills received pick #159 from Green Bay.
A move of 68 picks for Douglas.

And if you read my last handful of posts I feel pretty smart anyway. Fat mike coached his way out of the playoffs.

Losing Rasul may have cost us an Owl birth...we shall never know for sure.

I would like to have Rasul playing safety or CB for us next year instead of moving up those 68 spots.

And to sharpe I would say....our D was playing like hot garbage, so saying that their was no drop off was hyperbole. I admit, it didn't go to hot steaming garbage when we traded Douglas.

Patler, I maintain what I have said all along. What we gained is not good value for Rasul. He was a baller and had a positive impact on team mates. When we traded down and "lost out" on Branch, look at what we got with those picks. Moving up blows up as often as it works, and in this case we gave up a legit proven NFL DB.

[bobblehead]

Trading Rasul didn't hurt the Packers at all. Valentine and Ballentine played statistically better than Rasul had been playing. Rasul played much better for the Bills than he had been playing for the Packers. Gute cleared some cap space and got a 3rd round pick while giving up a 5th. Valentine and Ballentine gained some valuable experience. The Packers secondary is in better shape going into 2024 because of that trade.

What was printed at the time of the trade was that Rasul was the #10 CB in all of football according to PFF. I find it impossible that those 2 played better.

I'd like to see your source on that.

[Joemailman]

What was printed at the time of the trade was that Rasul was the #10 CB in all of football according to PFF. I find it impossible that those 2 played better.

I'd like to see your source on that.

My source is stats provided by Pro Football Reference. Now PFR and PFF may differ on which defender is primarily responsible for giving up a reception on a certain play. Believe who you want I guess. But I just had the sense last year that Rasul wasn't playing that great. I wasn't really relying on either PFF or PFR.

[run pMc]

Rasul considerably outplayed the *allentines, but they held up pretty well nevertheless.

I don't think Rasul cost GB a trip to the Owl, I think a much stronger case could be made that the safeties cost them. I can think of two Kittle plays and a McCaffrey play that were on the safeties. (2 of those 3 were TDs)
Hell, Anders Carlson played a bigger role than Rasul did.

Would you rather have Rasul or Stokes? I'd say Rasul, but Rasul's pushing 30 and he wasn't fast to start with. You can't play him in the slot, and if he was any good at safety they'd have played him there given what they had. I don't know they got 'good value' for him, but offloading an aging player's contract in a 'growth' year isn't a bad idea. I think it's a case of getting rid of a player a year early vs. a year late, and after all the yuck from the year prior and where their record was, I don't blame Gute for pulling the trigger.

[MadtownPacker]

Rasul had to go. Otherwise how could the Pack have been the youngest team to win a playoff game.

[Patler]

Losing Rasul may have cost us an Owl birth...we shall never know for sure.

I've asked myself that question several times. The safeties and others had their issues, but I do recall several summaries of failures in "critical plays" that placed responsibility squarely on Vallentine. I would have preferred having Douglas over not having him, but such is the way of pro sports.


I would like to have Rasul playing safety or CB for us next year instead of moving up those 68 spots.

The Packers were adamant that Douglas was not going to play safety. I never understood why not, but deferred to their judgement. I wonder if that would have changed under the new D-staff, or does he "gamble" too much for safety?

As for CB, I still believe he would have been cut for cap purposes this off season anyway, so for me next year is no issue.




Patler, I maintain what I have said all along. What we gained is not good value for Rasul. He was a baller and had a positive impact on team mates. When we traded down and "lost out" on Branch, look at what we got with those picks. Moving up blows up as often as it works, and in this case we gave up a legit proven NFL DB.

I never had a problem with your opinion, so long as it was based on the actual magnitude of movement up the draft board. Where I differed with you was your initial and frequent assertion that it would be "about 40" spots max, and your later conclusion that I was half-wrong for saying it would be about 70, because some article told you it would be about 47 (which you upped to "maybe more like 55" because of comp picks.)

Your initial opinion was based on a movement of about 40 draft spots, then maintained when it was maybe 55 draft spots. Do you continue with that opinion because the actual movement of 68 draft spots is inadequate, or simply because you are unwilling to change your mind?

FYI, I am less positive about the trade now than I was when it happened. I did not expect the playoff run, and thought this year was a throw away. I would have liked to have Douglas on the field in SF. But now that the season is over, I am anxious to see how the 3rd round pick is used.

[run pMc]

I am less positive about the trade now than I was when it happened. I did not expect the playoff run, and thought this year was a throw away. I would have liked to have Douglas on the field in SF. But now that the season is over, I am anxious to see how the 3rd round pick is used.

Agree, and I suspect Gute likely feels the same way too.

[bobblehead]

Patler, I do still maintain my opinion and admit 2 things I had way wrong. I didn't expect us to move so far up in each round (by winning a year early) and I had forgotten how many comp picks there are. I like to debate. You always bring good content without making it personal and I love that. I don't mind being wrong eventually (thank god, cuz its bound to happen). I was wrong on the overall compensation. I would still love Rasul as a safety or CB. I think the fact that he got Jaire to stop being a punk and studying film is worth so much.

This was always an exercise in what if, because we can't know several things. Would Douglas have been the difference. How will the draft capital turn out. Would he have been cut after the season. On and on it goes. Similar to cutting Jones. He is such a great team mate and player. Age catches up with all of us. Now excuse me, I need to go drink my ensure for breakfast.

[Fritz]

I've asked myself that question several times. The safeties and others had their issues, but I do recall several summaries of failures in "critical plays" that placed responsibility squarely on Vallentine. I would have preferred having Douglas over not having him, but such is the way of pro sports.



The Packers were adamant that Douglas was not going to play safety. I never understood why not, but deferred to their judgement. I wonder if that would have changed under the new D-staff, or does he "gamble" too much for safety?

As for CB, I still believe he would have been cut for cap purposes this off season anyway, so for me next year is no issue.




I never had a problem with your opinion, so long as it was based on the actual magnitude of movement up the draft board. Where I differed with you was your initial and frequent assertion that it would be "about 40" spots max, and your later conclusion that I was half-wrong for saying it would be about 70, because some article told you it would be about 47 (which you upped to "maybe more like 55" because of comp picks.)

Your initial opinion was based on a movement of about 40 draft spots, then maintained when it was maybe 55 draft spots. Do you continue with that opinion because the actual movement of 68 draft spots is inadequate, or simply because you are unwilling to change your mind?

FYI, I am less positive about the trade now than I was when it happened. I did not expect the playoff run, and thought this year was a throw away. I would have liked to have Douglas on the field in SF. But now that the season is over, I am anxious to see how the 3rd round pick is used.

Fuckin' Patler. Hate that guy. Uses facts all the time. And if that ain't bad enough, he fucking uses logical reasoning, too.

I'd ban him. Next thing you know, we'll be having discussions based on actual information and open-mindedness.

[run pMc]

He's probably a media puke who believes in facts, truths, and the salary cap.

[sharpe1027]

Fuckin' Patler. Hate that guy. Uses facts all the time. And if that ain't bad enough, he fucking uses logical reasoning, too.

I'd ban him. Next thing you know, we'll be having discussions based on actual information and open-mindedness.

Don't worry. There won't be discussions unless Patler gets ab alt account and plays both sides.

[MadtownPacker]

Don't worry. There won't be discussions unless Patler gets ab alt account and plays both sides.
Patler would never do anything like that!!

[bobblehead]

Actually I am Patler. Bobblehead serves as an account to make him look smarter.

[Patler]

Patler would never do anything like that!!

Shamrockfan disagrees with you.

[red]

Fuckin' Patler. Hate that guy. Uses facts all the time. And if that ain't bad enough, he fucking uses logical reasoning, too.

I'd ban him. Next thing you know, we'll be having discussions based on actual information and open-mindedness.

plus the asshole raises the whole average IQ of the board by like 50 points just by posting here

ignorance is bliss baby!!!!!!!

[Bretsky]

plus the asshole raises the whole average IQ of the board by like 50 points just by posting here

ignorance is bliss baby!!!!!!!



Well you lower it by 100 so we need some balance:)))))

[bobblehead]

Well you lower it by 100 so we need some balance:)))))

Red raises it when sober and lowers it when drunk...that IS the balance.

[Bretsky]

Red raises it when sober and lowers it when drunk...that IS the balance.

Geez I always thought he sounds better drunk :)

[Fritz]

Yeah, Bobble's got that turned around.

[red]

Geez I always thought he sounds better drunk :)

i think i sound smarter drunk

https://s3.amazonaws.com/manmadediy-uploads-production/photos/15692/cliff-clavin-on-beer-reprint-of-a-classic-diatribe-from-chee-demotivational-poster.jpg