Losers and Worse Losers - MNF meltdown

[MadtownPacker]

Oh fuck we were all riding pretty high there for a bit. I didn’t even list a loser last week. Started getting a feeling it was going to go bad when JustinHarrell got too hyped up about Love and the playoffs. He lives in Green Bay or nearby, maybe that’s why he is a barometer when a storm is coming. Plus he is loco, love that guy!

We can’t with a clear conscience say there was any winners last night because everybody was blowing it. That only leave the guys that sucked and the guys that sucked even more.

Losers

WRs - Probably wouldn’t have mattered if they did play good because 10 was off. It just hard to watch at times with all the confusion.

Carlson - His face tells me he doesn’t believe in himself or doesn’t believe coach believes in him. Doesn’t matter homeboy doesn’t have any confidence and that’s really a kicker‘s main weapon.

OL - What’s new.

Worse Losers

Matt Pepe Le Pew - Same haircut and both keep trying the same desperate moves over and over. Currently stinkin

Love - My guy what the hell did you do this weekend that you looked like me after a night of Patron shots. The big lights gave you big frights and your electrolyte didn’t get replenished until the end when it was too late. Putting up another streak of great games is the only way to clean it up.

Joe - Obviously the guy in the black hat sent some goons to tell Joe just continue to play soft at the end like you always do, no one will notice the difference.

Nixon - Definitely was seeing double on that fumble. Shouldn’t been fucking with that Molly so much.

Us the fans - bunch of arrogant pricks talking playoffs and counting chickens before they’re hatched. Yeah I’m guilty too. :lol:

[Joemailman]

Reed stopped running the corner route on one play where Love did throw a perfect pass.

Pass rush provided 0 sacks and 2 QB hits against most sack-prone QB in the NFL. Van Ness was the only EDGE I remember making a play.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Loser: Me, Tank Elf Duke. Shoulda discarded Bobble’s arrogant optimism of a Packer victory and put the $15/hr burger-flipping paycheck on the Gee-Men via the money line. Coulda doubled up the frogskins for a pedal drive fishing kayak. Fishing is kinda relaxing if the pond ain’t too crowded by Homo Sapiens. A kayak would afford me the opportunity to get away from too many people.

Also, to add salt to the wound, as I promised in the Discussion Thread, with the Packers losing to a team quarterbacked by a damn Italian, I will now boycott pizza for a year. Might be for my own good. Two Sundays ago, I consumed two large Italian pies before, during and after the Chef came. Getting fat. Goddamn, pizza tastes so good.*

*Tex will tell y’all, fuck the healthy-eating craze - be merry and feast on whatever the fuck you want.

[bobblehead]

I'd like to tell you that me and Mr. Love were drinking til 9am gameday and thats why the gameday thread was off and same for his game, but alas, he had happy feet. That is really easily fixable and his accuracy could improve a LOT with better pocket confidence.

This was a bump in the road. An added bonus is I'm not on the hook for threads any longer. This is still a young ascending team that never quit. The future is bright.

[texaspackerbacker]

Loser: Me, Tank Elf Duke. Shoulda discarded Bobble’s arrogant optimism of a Packer victory and put the $15/hr burger-flipping paycheck on the Gee-Men via the money line. Coulda doubled up the frogskins for a pedal drive fishing kayak. Fishing is kinda relaxing if the pond ain’t too crowded by Homo Sapiens. A kayak would afford me the opportunity to get away from too many people.

Also, to add salt to the wound, as I promised in the Discussion Thread, with the Packers losing to a team quarterbacked by a damn Italian, I will now boycott pizza for a year. Might be for my own good. Two Sundays ago, I consumed two large Italian pies before, during and after the Chef came. Getting fat. Goddamn, pizza tastes so good.*

*Tex will tell y’all, fuck the healthy-eating craze - be merry and feast on whatever the fuck you want.

Hell Yeah to that. However, I can't stand pizza.

I'm straining to think of somebody who was praiseworthy in that rotten game. Maybe Wicks and Doubs, maybe Kraft although I'm not sure how he blocked. Maybe Patrick Taylor. That's about it. I wouldn't say Devondre Campbell was good, but he didn't seem as bad as he has been playing recently.

I absolutely HATE the way Joe Barry uses his D Linemen - like O Linemen, trying to create space for the ILBs who then as often as not miss the tackle. And not having anybody out there to set the edge on runs, maybe that's on the OLBs, but I have to think they are playing Joe's D, and that's the problem.

Love was bad from his first throw, no two ways about it. The cross wind might have had something to do with it but he should have been able to deal with that at least as well as the other team's QB. I still have a high opinion of him, but he stunk last night. Ditto that for Keisan Nixon, and it wasn't just the muff/fumble. In general, I still like the way our young DBs play, but it sure seems like the coaching, Barry himself as well as the position coaches are pretty bad.

Yeah, the Kicker is probably gonna be "ok", but I doubt he will ever be "great". I remember his older brother stunk his way out of Minnesota and has never been more than mediocre with the Raiders.

LaFleur's play calling, which was really good the past few games, same as Love, took a large step backward in this game.

All in all, a downright rotten game.

[Fritz]

"Obviously the guy in the black hat sent some goons to tell Joe just continue to play soft....."

Mad, he doesn't need any goons to tell him that. As you wrote, he does it anyway. It's his go-to. MLF needs to hire that goomba agent's goons to advise Joe to play more aggressively.

The FLower and calling like fifteen end-arounds and reverses. Geezuz, it's like me when I first found my dad's Playboy magazines - I just couldn't stop myself.

Love sucked.

Carlson doesn't look like he has any confidence; you're absolutely right there.

Offensive line will look very different next season. It better.

[Joemailman]

Love wasn't horrible. He took too long to adjust to the pressure the Giants were bringing. But Packers last 3 possessions they moved the ball for missed field goal, field goal and touchdown. He gave them a chance to pull out the win in the 4th quarter.

[bobblehead]

Both Walker and Yosh played pretty well. I really think starting them both and benching Runyan or Myers to move Tom inside would improve the OL play. McDuffie flashed for a young guy. He is going to make Campbell's salary expendable.

Am I the only one who missed Douglas?

It was an ugly game in ugly weather. Love did bring us back for the lead only to watch Barry do what Barry does. I felt this was a trap game and it played out that way. I fully expect this team to bounce back with a win next week.

[Fritz]

Love wasn't horrible. He took too long to adjust to the pressure the Giants were bringing. But Packers last 3 possessions they moved the ball for missed field goal, field goal and touchdown. He gave them a chance to pull out the win in the 4th quarter.

I have to disagree with you. Love was the reason the offense was so bad for most of the game, and his receivers bailed him out later when he put those receivers in precarious positions with his high throws.

Not hating on him, but he sucked until the very end of the game. Then Joe Barely’s defense did what a Joe Barely defense do.

[RashanGary]

You don’t move top 10RTs to guard.

[sharpe1027]

Love wasn't horrible. He took too long to adjust to the pressure the Giants were bringing. But Packers last 3 possessions they moved the ball for missed field goal, field goal and touchdown. He gave them a chance to pull out the win in the 4th quarter.

The only reason Love needed to make those drives was how bad he played for three quarters. You don't get credit for almost saving a house from burning down when you first throw gasoline on the blaze before finally switching to water too late to save it.

[bobblehead]

You don’t move top 10RTs to guard.

Sure you do if he would be a top 3 G and you have a top 15 RT to move in. And although he may be a top 10 RT, he isn't a top 20 Tackle. If he were, then he would be playing LT.

[bobblehead]

The only reason Love needed to make those drives was how bad he played for three quarters. You don't get credit for almost saving a house from burning down when you first throw gasoline on the blaze before finally switching to water too late to save it.

In fact you do get credit for that. He overcame a rough start and some happy feet to put the team in a position to win. That is what you want from your QB. Not everyone is going to be 100% all the time. He deserves criticism for his early play. He deserves credit for turning around and playing better down the stretch.

I get your point, and its valid, but he didn't start heaving 30 yard bombs every play because he was frustrated. He turned it around and gave his team a chance to win in bad weather in a hostile environment, on a night they didn't play great. He deserves some credit for that.

[Fritz]

He sure did seem to have happy feet, and did not set his feet and drive through on his throws. I wonder why he regressed in that area particularly? I wonder if Tom Clements will have him doing footwork drills incessantly this week.

[Joemailman]

He sure did seem to have happy feet, and did not set his feet and drive through on his throws. I wonder why he regressed in that area particularly? I wonder if Tom Clements will have him doing footwork drills incessantly this week.

I think he was unnerved by some of the pressure Giants were bringing. PFF gave both Jenkins and Myers poor grades, so there was a lot of inside pressure. However, I saw one play where the MLB blitzed and Love immediately bailed out of the pocket, rolling to his right and making an off balance throw. Needlessly as it turned out because Patrick Taylor picked up the blitz perfectly. He would have been able to step up into the pocket. He just needed to settle down a bit, which he seemed to do in the 4th quarter.

[call_me_ishmael]

Sure you do if he would be a top 3 G and you have a top 15 RT to move in. And although he may be a top 10 RT, he isn't a top 20 Tackle. If he were, then he would be playing LT.

If they think he is Bryan Bulaga for the next 8-10 years, they're not gonna move him IMO. That isn't doing right by him or to the team.

[Sparkey]

One thing we all need to remember; He is a rookie when it comes to seeing NFL defenses in live reps. He may have been an understudy for three years, but he is still "seeing" things for the first time. All those years watching game film means nothing compared to actual live reps. Facing defenses he hasn't seen before, he is not trusting things all the time. If, by the middle of next year, the same things are happening then the Packers will have to pivot to someone else.

[bobblehead]

If they think he is Bryan Bulaga for the next 8-10 years, they're not gonna move him IMO. That isn't doing right by him or to the team.

The thing is, I think Yosh or Walker can be that, or damn close. I think Tom is a really good tackle, but he would be an elite guard (and maybe center). To do best by the team is to put the best unit on the field. That involves removing Runyan or Myers at this point. Maybe they do the opposite of what they did to fuck up those playoff games where they benched Yosh after he played well for some loser who fucked up the playoffs. Maybe this time they make that switch with moving into the lineup on the eve of the playoffs and run the table.

[bobblehead]

One thing we all need to remember; He is a rookie when it comes to seeing NFL defenses in live reps. He may have been an understudy for three years, but he is still "seeing" things for the first time. All those years watching game film means nothing compared to actual live reps. Facing defenses he hasn't seen before, he is not trusting things all the time. If, by the middle of next year, the same things are happening then the Packers will have to pivot to someone else.

Sort of. Its not "nothing", but its not live action either. He has advantages over rookies in that he should recognize it faster in live action due to the understudy time. But your point is valid that it wasn't the same as seeing it live and getting hit for not reading it fast enough.

[Fritz]

Don't teams have some kind of
VR headset that young QB's can wear so they can really get a feel for the pressure? Maybe even set it up so the room it's set up in rocks a little when the QB gets "hit" - like the old Senssuround theaters from the 70's.

Next thing you know, Packers gonna hire ol' Fritzy as the technology guru!

[RashanGary]

Bobble, why would a guy who’s best trait is his ability to move his feet in pass pro and defend a lot of space a better fit at guard??

[RashanGary]

We’ve seen decent guards that size…. Wahle, Colledge, Jenkins, etc….

But none of those guys had Tom’s feet in pass pro. If they had tackle feet they would have been where Tom is, at tackle.

[Joemailman]

The only way the Packers are moving Tom to Guard is if they feel they have 2 other Tackles as good or better than him. Not likely.

[Fritz]

The only way the Packers are moving Tom to Guard is if they feel they have 2 other Tackles as good or better than him. Not likely.

Replace “Tom” with “Jenkins.” Now what say you?

[Joemailman]

Replace “Tom” with “Jenkins.” Now what say you?

I think Tom is a better Tackle than Jenkins.

[bobblehead]

I think Tom is a better Tackle than Jenkins.

I don't know if that is true today, but when Jenkins played a stretch at LT he was MUCH better than Tom is right now.

[bobblehead]

Bobble, why would a guy who’s best trait is his ability to move his feet in pass pro and defend a lot of space a better fit at guard??

Because he isn't large enough to negate a bull rush, and his great footwork merely overcomes his lack of length. He is very good, but I don't see the traits necessary to be elite. He has already peaked as a tackle.

[bobblehead]

We’ve seen decent guards that size…. Wahle, Colledge, Jenkins, etc….

But none of those guys had Tom’s feet in pass pro. If they had tackle feet they would have been where Tom is, at tackle.

College probably should have been a tackle.

[call_me_ishmael]

I don't know if that is true today, but when Jenkins played a stretch at LT he was MUCH better than Tom is right now.

Didn't he look like total ass in his second starting stint, though?

[bobblehead]

Didn't he look like total ass in his second starting stint, though?

Coming off the injury. Also playing on the right side. Not sure which/both/whatever caused it, but he wasn't good. He has had some off games this year as well. I can put some of that on the musical chairs at LT hurting his chemistry and making him try to do a bit too much. He has also had some games where he just owned it in the run game.

[RashanGary]

We all know pff isn’t perfect, but they have Tom as a top 5 RT. Hes looked good by the eyeball test as well. Even when pff is off, they’re usually not way off. So he’s top 10 or better and probably not 10.

You’re not looking to replace Tom at Rt.

[run pMc]

I don't think Tom is big enough to play G, he looks small at T. He does have the feet and technique to handle outside rushers, who are usually lighter than the big heavy DT's who would line up against him inside. I guess the only caveat there would be if he gets help from Myers at times.
I do think he could be very good a C, I'd put him there before G, but I think they want to avoid a Billy Turner situation, where they yoyo him and play him all over. I think that messes with their heads and technique/habits. Also, T make more money so he's gonna want to play there.

I think he's fine at T. Yeah he may or may not be elite, but he's faced a murderer's row of edge rushers this year and held up fine. Why move him unless you have to?
It's easier to find an IOL, and lower in the draft, than a T. He's not the ideal RT you'd cook up in a lab, but neither is Bahktiari, and he did fine for years.

Let him be at RT and draft better guys around him, and let that OL go to work. Runyan is the weakspot on the OL at this point anyway.

Also, just because someone can play on the left or right side doesn't mean they can do both. It's mirror image technique and until recently wouldn't expect an OL to be able to do it well without some time, and even then some players struggle with it. I wonder if Runyan would be better at LG since IIRC that's where he started his first year, and was a LT at Michigan.

[bobblehead]

We all know pff isn’t perfect, but they have Tom as a top 5 RT. Hes looked good by the eyeball test as well. Even when pff is off, they’re usually not way off. So he’s top 10 or better and probably not 10.

You’re not looking to replace Tom at Rt.

Correct, I am not looking to replace Tom. I'm looking to replace Runyan and Myers.

[bobblehead]

I don't think Tom is big enough to play G, he looks small at T. He does have the feet and technique to handle outside rushers, who are usually lighter than the big heavy DT's who would line up against him inside. I guess the only caveat there would be if he gets help from Myers at times.
I do think he could be very good a C, I'd put him there before G, but I think they want to avoid a Billy Turner situation, where they yoyo him and play him all over. I think that messes with their heads and technique/habits. Also, T make more money so he's gonna want to play there.

I think he's fine at T. Yeah he may or may not be elite, but he's faced a murderer's row of edge rushers this year and held up fine. Why move him unless you have to?
It's easier to find an IOL, and lower in the draft, than a T. He's not the ideal RT you'd cook up in a lab, but neither is Bahktiari, and he did fine for years.

Let him be at RT and draft better guys around him, and let that OL go to work. Runyan is the weakspot on the OL at this point anyway.

Also, just because someone can play on the left or right side doesn't mean they can do both. It's mirror image technique and until recently wouldn't expect an OL to be able to do it well without some time, and even then some players struggle with it. I wonder if Runyan would be better at LG since IIRC that's where he started his first year, and was a LT at Michigan.

You are usually spot on, but you miss a point. Big guys are beaten through leverage, not bulk. Tom is the right stature to get low with 6'2" 380lb DL. However, OTs need bulk because they are in space and an edge gets a head of steam and bull rushes him. In those cases you need mass to negate that. Then you need length so that when they shift at the last second you can punch and slide to negate that move.

As for the money, LTs get the top dollars, RTs are close to guards. Tom can play both. I'm guessing they are looking forward and hoping they can replace Runyan easier than finding a RT if Tom moves inside. Personally I think they need a new LT and one of those guys should play the right side.

I'm only looking at RIGHT NOW. Right now I think moving Yosh to the RT and kicking tom inside improve the OL overall.

[RashanGary]

So Tom can’t handle the bull rush of a 270lb edge, but he’s better suited to take on bull rushes from 330lb DTs?? You make no sense here, bobble, none.

[RashanGary]

I'm only looking at RIGHT NOW. Right now I think moving Yosh to the RT and kicking tom inside improve the OL overall.


Right now, yeah, it’s possible. I’d rather see them stick Rhyan in at guard and keep Tom at tackle and get a better feel for our younger guys. Yosh is gone after this year anyway.

[run pMc]

You are usually spot on, but you miss a point. Big guys are beaten through leverage, not bulk. Tom is the right stature to get low with 6'2" 380lb DL. However, OTs need bulk because they are in space and an edge gets a head of steam and bull rushes him. In those cases you need mass to negate that. Then you need length so that when they shift at the last second you can punch and slide to negate that move.


I 100% agree that leverage is important, and Tom's technique and use of leverage would be what gets him by on the inside. I don't think he has the bulk/strength to anchor, so that would be how he could compensate - with technique. I do think in short yardage he'd get destroyed, and I also think his talents are better suited at RT at this point, with draft picks at LT and RG to shore up the line. (And C)

[Joemailman]

If Tom were to be moved inside, I think it would be to Center, not Guard. Steno has already said it might be his best position.

[bobblehead]

So Tom can’t handle the bull rush of a 270lb edge, but he’s better suited to take on bull rushes from 330lb DTs?? You make no sense here, bobble, none.

I make perfect sense. You just don't understand it because you never played OL

[Joemailman]

I make perfect sense. You just don't understand it because you never played OL

Please enlighten us.

[RashanGary]

I make perfect sense. You just don't understand it because you never played OL

Dude, guards are an inch and a half shorter on average than tackles and the same weight. They’re stalkier, not as good of feet, stronger. For the most part.

[bobblehead]

Dude, guards are an inch and a half shorter on average than tackles and the same weight. They’re stalkier, not as good of feet, stronger. For the most part.

when drafted

[Fritz]

Loser: Devondre Campbell. Yes, he was put in almost impossible spots. But he really is not the force he was his first year in Green Bay, not even close. I think this game highlighted that, and my guess is he's probably gone after the season. Too bad. Seems like a good guy.

Football just chews 'em up and spits 'em out.