WHO DEVELOPS INTO the NUMBER ONE WIDE RECEIVER in GB ?

[Bretsky]

Matty Flower had an interesting interview. He implied it's nice not to have a true number one WR because he's been a part of teams in the past where QB's would try to force the ball to the @1 when they should have been throwing to the open WR instead.

Wilde and Tausch were arguing about this; so I'm stealing this idea for a poll.

Which WR on our roster, and you can only choose one, best develops into our Number 1 WR

Maybe the 100 catch guy with at least similar, or more yards to the next ?.

[Bretsky]

I'd add, Wilde and Tausch, could not agree on the answer

[Vincenzo]

Reed, his yards after the catch are amazing. He runs like the wind.

[George Cumby]

Yes, no, all of the above.

[RashanGary]

I said Reed. On top of being fast, having really good hands and playing bigger than his stature, I think he’s incredibly smart. I think over time, Love is going to have a special chemistry with him.

Physically, I think Wicks has the skillset that leads to volume numbers.

Watson is a big play guy, but he’s also very savvy in the red zone. He might end up with the most touchdowns.



But as the go to guy, most yards, I think it’s Reed.

[Joemailman]

I think it's Wicks. His combination of good size and great route running remind me so much of Adams. Guys the size of Reed don't become #1 guys that often. He's fast, but not Tyreek Hill fast. He's not as great a route runner as Jennings was. Watson isn't a factor until he proves he can stay in the lineup.

[Fritz]

I think Watson has the most physical potential to be that guy, but who knows if he will ever get his career untracked? He's an injury waiting to happen, so far.

So I voted Wicks. He's got the build and the attitude. Reed is I think too slight to be that guy, and as someone else said, the slot guy is not often that guy.

[RashanGary]

I was torn between wicks and reed. Definitely, the size is a problem for Reed, but I like the savvy and speed. Kind of Jennings like that way.

[red]

i honestly have no clue, i'd say doubs is in the running too

reed could very well turn into a tyrek hill type of player, watson just can't stay healthy, and wicks has the potential but so far has a small body of work

at this point i've seen the most out of reed followed by wicks

[texaspackerbacker]

Why do we even need a clear #1? All have been excellent so far. Keep the other teams guessing, then target whoever gets weaker coverage.

I voted for Watson because he still has the highest ceiling and hopefully gets over the injury thing. For now, they should use him lightly, a decoy and occasional hit on a deep pass.

Reed reminds me of C.D. Lamb. Is he as fast? Maybe, time will tell. Is Wicks the next Davante? He shows signs. He reminds me more of Michael Irvin, though, which is almost as good. Hell yeah, Doubs should be on the list too.

[Joemailman]

I don't see Doubs. Doesn't get separation often enough to be a #1. He may have a year like Jones had in 2012 when he led the NFL in TD's, but not likely to be the #1 guy.

[sharpe1027]

I'm confused by the definition of #1 WR.

If it's the guy most likely to catch more passes, then it's gotta be Reed for me. He gets open and makes plays with the ball.

If it's a guy you throw when not necessarily open, that's not Reed. I'd go with Wicks or Watson.

[Joemailman]

I'm confused by the definition of #1 WR.

If it's the guy most likely to catch more passes, then it's gotta be Reed for me. He gets open and makes plays with the ball.

If it's a guy you throw when not necessarily open, that's not Reed. I'd go with Wicks or Watson.

I think #1 is determined by 2 things:

Who is the guy the QB wants to go to when he absolutely has to have a completion?
Who is the guy the opponent is most concerned about?

[bobblehead]

I mean, if the injury situation clears up in his future its Watson and its not close. I love the depth and balance, but Watson is just a different kind of athlete. If he learns how to prepare his body for the NFL season and stays healthy the sky is the limit.

But I'm in the camp of throwing it to who is open. I hope Love just continues to run the offense. I don't care if Melton McFuckDoggle is the guy who is open, thats where I want the ball going.

[MadtownPacker]

This a ridiculous poll. It’s obvious it’s going to be a rookie WR from next year. The one the Rodgers pick is used on.

[Bretsky]

i honestly have no clue, i'd say doubs is in the running too

r:crazy:

:)

[Bretsky]

I'm confused by the definition of #1 WR.

If it's the guy most likely to catch more passes, then it's gotta be Reed for me. He gets open and makes plays with the ball.

If it's a guy you throw when not necessarily open, that's not Reed. I'd go with Wicks or Watson.



I struggled with the exact definition as well. I had started to define it, but instead decided to leave it out to spur on more debate.

ROUGH stats I was going to throw out where perhaps, a 90-100 catch season/ 14-1500 yards

[Bretsky]

FYI

Wilde thinks it's Wicks

Taucher started the answer with Reed, and then flipped his choice to Watson

[RashanGary]

I really like Reed. Wicks too though. And Watson. It’s a toss up. I think Reed is the most sure bet.

[Joemailman]

I struggled with the exact definition as well. I had started to define it, but instead decided to leave it out to spur on more debate.

ROUGH stats I was going to throw out where perhaps, a 90-100 catch season/ 14-1500 yards

1400-1500 is too high a bar. Only 5 guys in the entire NFL had 1400+. I think 1200 would be more like it.

[RashanGary]

1400-1500 is too high a bar. Only 5 guys in the entire NFL had 1400+. I think 1200 would be more like it.

1200 and 10 touchdowns is definitely a #1

[RashanGary]

Davante is a borderline HOFer and he’s only gone over 1200 and 10 4 times in 10 years.

[sharpe1027]

Does this sound right?

Reed is most likely to get lots of touches and make plays after the catch.

Wicks is more likey to be they guy to fight for the 50-50 ball.

Watson is more likely to beat everyone deep and go up and get a short TD pass jump ball.

Pick which one is your #1, but you want them all on the field.

[George Cumby]

This a ridiculous poll. It’s obvious it’s going to be a rookie WR from next year. The one the Rodgers pick is used on.

Hahahahahahaha.

[red]

because we are so deep at WR, do we trade one or 2 away, and when? (probably not this offseason)

[RashanGary]

because we are so deep at WR, do we trade one or 2 away, and when? (probably not this offseason)

Probably, if they all go the way they’re going. 2nd round pick is better than a 3rd compensatory.

[smuggler]

Could be a 1A, 1B between Reed and Wicks. I lean more toward Wicks, because he's been better against man coverage, but they've both been good and things like that can change a lot year-to-year.

[bobblehead]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/who-will-become-the-green-bay-packers-true-wr1-in-2024/ar-BB1nco4n?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=LCTS&cvid=8022d5a67e024a19bdcd4b89a8d3cbed&ei=10

As usual the national media is only about 3 months behind packerrats for good ideas. I guess that's why I spend more time here than packer "news" sites.

[bobblehead]

FYI what I love about the debate is that it has so many angles. Personally I think Wicks could be DAdams 2.0. He does everything Adams does. He's just a tad bigger than most WR. Plenty fast. Runs great routes. What can't he do? Doubs is sort of a poor mans Wicks in my book. He is the "least likely to fail, least likely to be the alpha" kinda guy. Reed will have a 100 catch season at some point in his career. Prototypical slot guy. Watson is simply so talented that rules don't apply to him. I've never seen a guy beat angles like he does. He's less polished than the others but it doesn't even matter. Maybe a Randy Moss comparison, but without the ball skills. Moss is the best I ever saw (when he wanted to be). I would say that 3 of these guys make one or more pro bowls at some point and Doubs will carve out a really nice little Donald Driver type career where he is never quite the man, but always doing the job.

[Joemailman]

FYI what I love about the debate is that it has so many angles. Personally I think Wicks could be DAdams 2.0. He does everything Adams does. He's just a tad bigger than most WR. Plenty fast. Runs great routes. What can't he do? Doubs is sort of a poor mans Wicks in my book. He is the "least likely to fail, least likely to be the alpha" kinda guy. Reed will have a 100 catch season at some point in his career. Prototypical slot guy. Watson is simply so talented that rules don't apply to him. I've never seen a guy beat angles like he does. He's less polished than the others but it doesn't even matter. Maybe a Randy Moss comparison, but without the ball skills. Moss is the best I ever saw (when he wanted to be). I would say that 3 of these guys make one or more pro bowls at some point and Doubs will carve out a really nice little Donald Driver type career where he is never quite the man, but always doing the job.

I think you may be forgetting how good Driver was. He had 6 consecutive 1000+ yard seasons. I see Doubs as more of a James Jones-level receiver, which is great if he's your 4th most talented WR. I agree that Wicks has the potential to be a lot like what Adams was. I thought Reed would be a Cobb-type guy but he's more explosive than Cobb. He probably has as much in common with Jennings as he does with Cobb. When Watson was drafted, I thought he had the most potential to be a Randy Moss-type talent out of all the WR's in that great class. Still does if he's past the hamstring problems. It willbe interesting to see how long the Packers, with current WR salaries, can keep the group together. They had Driver, Jennings, Jordy and Jones together for 5 seasons (2008-2012).

[RashanGary]

I think you may be forgetting how good Driver was. He had 6 consecutive 1000+ yard seasons. I see Doubs as more of a James Jones-level receiver, which is great if he's your 4th most talented WR. I agree that Wicks has the potential to be a lot like what Adams was. I thought Reed would be a Cobb-type guy but he's more explosive than Cobb. He probably has as much in common with Jennings as he does with Cobb. When Watson was drafted, I thought he had the most potential to be a Randy Moss-type talent out of all the WR's in that great class. Still does if he's past the hamstring problems. It willbe interesting to see how long the Packers, with current WR salaries, can keep the group together. They had Driver, Jennings, Jordy and Jones together for 5 seasons (2008-2012).

Completely agree. Consistent 700 yard seasons, probably plays 8 years in the league.

[bobblehead]

I think you may be forgetting how good Driver was. He had 6 consecutive 1000+ yard seasons. I see Doubs as more of a James Jones-level receiver, which is great if he's your 4th most talented WR. I agree that Wicks has the potential to be a lot like what Adams was. I thought Reed would be a Cobb-type guy but he's more explosive than Cobb. He probably has as much in common with Jennings as he does with Cobb. When Watson was drafted, I thought he had the most potential to be a Randy Moss-type talent out of all the WR's in that great class. Still does if he's past the hamstring problems. It willbe interesting to see how long the Packers, with current WR salaries, can keep the group together. They had Driver, Jennings, Jordy and Jones together for 5 seasons (2008-2012).

I remember how good driver was. He wasn't great though. He was good for a decade. A pros pro. Doubs plays nothing like Jones, he plays like Driver. Driver was also the main guy for a lot of years when he probably shouldn't have been. If you surround Doubs with guys like Malik Heath he will have 6 1k seasons also. You're probably right though. He isn't likely to quite be driver. More like 6 consecutive 800 yard seasons.

[RashanGary]

Joe and I weren’t saying he’s like Jones at all, just similar in production level. Doubs is a step slow and not big enough to be a possession guy. He won’t last past 30. That part is similar to Jones. But he’ll rack up a few thousand yards in 8 years.

[Scott Campbell]

I think Bo Melton deserved to be in the poll, given the way he played down the stretch.

[Fritz]

I don't know about #1 - I hope it remains by committee - but I do think, when it's down-and-dirty clutch time, that fourth-down you HAVE to have, that Love likes to find Doubs.

[Joemailman]

I don't know about #1 - I hope it remains by committee - but I do think, when it's down-and-dirty clutch time, that fourth-down you HAVE to have, that Love likes to find Doubs.

So far, but I could see it become Wicks.

[King Friday]

Wicks is the guy who had the highest ceiling. Watson is an elite deep threat, but he’s never going to be a guy who can get 7 yards on 3rd and 6 consistently. Reed has a great chance at being an elite slot receiver, but he won’t have the size to be a consistent deep threat. Wicks is the only one of the three to have that ability to do both and develop in a manner that Adams did.

[RashanGary]

I think Reed might have the down field ability of Greg Jennings or Steve Smith Jr

Wicks is much more in the mold of your prototype #1 receiver. TO, Adams, Kupp, Jordy, Keenan Allen. The list of big body receivers with just enough speed and top tier route running ability is endless. Probably half of all leading receivers fall into this group.


If I could vote again, I’d vote Wicks. I said Reed and still think it could be. And it could be Watson too.

Doubs is the one I give almost no chance to.

[MadtownPacker]

I don't know about #1 - I hope it remains by committee - but I do think, when it's down-and-dirty clutch time, that fourth-down you HAVE to have, that Love likes to find Doubs.
Grandtroller B intentionally left him off. He didn’t want to hear the peoples truth.

[Bretsky]

It's Wicks IMO. Doubs is what he is; a relialbe decent WR ....just decent . Not many are arguing for him

[Bretsky]

INTRESTING FACT came out with media interviews. DID YOU KNOW

Wicks and Reed rented out a VRBO this offseason to run through some intense workouts and train together in Florida. I found that interesting. Chemistry building; hard workers; good people....

[Fritz]

That’s the mystery of sports. Somehow you play better together when you know whether the guy across from you likes Cheerios or Cinammon Toast Crunch for breakfast.

[Bretsky]

INTERESTING COMMENTS from Flower . Goodby Toure ?

Melton has taken the momentum from the end of last season and built on it this offseason, and LaFleur didn't hold back with his praise.

"I think it's a great story. Just being persistent and to continue to push forward even when the stacks are put up against you," said LaFleur. "He's done an outstanding job. He is so disciplined in his approach and how he is, and he's so consistent on a daily basis. He brings so much value. He brings a lot of energy to our team."

[texaspackerbacker]

Yeah, Melton is great, just like the three in the poll plus Doubs. The Packers are really blessed with a bunch of excellent ones. I hope they don't give up on Toure, though. He's basically as good as your average WR on NFL rosters. Heath is pretty good too, and we haven't even seen what Dubose can do.

[Bretsky]

Yeah, Melton is great, just like the three in the poll plus Doubs. The Packers are really blessed with a bunch of excellent ones. I hope they don't give up on Toure, though. He's basically as good as your average WR on NFL rosters. Heath is pretty good too, and we haven't even seen what Dubose can do.

You make it sounds like we can get multiple firsts for all these guys :) They have a ton to prove before I'd call any of them great.

[texaspackerbacker]

Who said anything about trading any of them? hahahaha

What I see happening is WRs gradually going the way of RBs - less likely to get drafted in the first round and less likely to get super-size contracts. Why? It's becoming apparent that it's just not that hard anymore to find really good WRs drafted later or even FAs.

[Scott Campbell]

You make it sounds like we can get multiple firsts for all these guys :) They have a ton to prove before I'd call any of them great.


I’m willing to say our group is especially great relative to what they’re getting paid.

[sharpe1027]

I really like this WR group, but I don't think they're as good as what I'm reading in this thread. Still a lot of questions. Most of these guys have at most one good season as a basis to assess.

[Scott Campbell]

Most of these guys have at most one good season as a basis to assess.

Reed and Wicks are heading into their 2nd years. How many good seasons are they supposed to have at this point?

[Scott Campbell]

PFF graded Melton at about 88 in a pretty limited sample size last year. I think that was 10 points higher than any other Packer receiver. He had a pretty spectacular finish to the season after finally getting an opportunity.

I think Wicks is the guy most likely to develop into our #1 because of his ability to get open so regularly, but it wouldn’t surprise at all if it ended up being Reed, Watson or Melton. It wouldn’t bother me at all if none of them overly dominated targets and we continue to spread it around to all 4 of them. If you don’t have a true #1 you don’t have to pay a true #1. If we have a lethal passing attack, nobody should care.

Justin Jesfferson is a great player, but that contract he just got is a boat anchor.

[sharpe1027]

Reed and Wicks are heading into their 2nd years. How many good seasons are they supposed to have at this point?


Do you really think I expect them to have NFL experience before they joined the NFL?

My point is having one good year is far from a guarantee of consistent performance over subsequent years. I think this is particularly true the year following a breakout year. Romeo Doubs is a recent example.

The bigger the sample size the more confidence.

[Scott Campbell]

Do you really think I expect them to have NFL experience before they joined the NFL?

My point is having one good year is far from a guarantee of consistent performance over subsequent years. I think this is particularly true the year following a breakout year. Romeo Doubs is a recent example.

The bigger the sample size the more confidence.

Doubs is an example of what?

[Fritz]

INTERESTING COMMENTS from Flower . Goodby Toure ?

Melton has taken the momentum from the end of last season and built on it this offseason, and LaFleur didn't hold back with his praise.

"I think it's a great story. Just being persistent and to continue to push forward even when the stacks are put up against you," said LaFleur. "He's done an outstanding job. He is so disciplined in his approach and how he is, and he's so consistent on a daily basis. He brings so much value. He brings a lot of energy to our team."

Toure , Heath, Dubose - duking it out for that final roster spot, if the Packers keep six, and if I’m remembering all the others who are locks. I know The Flower loved Heath’s blocking. That’s a plus for him. Dubose was mostly hurt, I think, so this is his year to show what he can do. Toure was the talk of camp last year when he showed up looking like Tarzan, but he played like Jane. He never looks comfortable catching the ball or running after the catch.

[Scott Campbell]

In 2 seasons Gute did a complete rebuild of the entire WR room with no FA signings and relatively little draft capital (no first round picks).

Has this ever been done before in the NFL? I can’t remember ever seeing something like this.

[sharpe1027]

Doubs is an example of what?

Lots of people were really excited about how great he was as a rookie and expectations of how we would keep improving. He took a pretty good step back in year 2. People are now singing a different tune and he's not even in the discussion of being a number one WR for us.

[Joemailman]

Lots of people were really excited about how great he was as a rookie and expectations of how we would keep improving. He took a pretty good step back in year 2. People are now singing a different tune and he's not even in the discussion of being a number one WR for us.

How do you figure he took a step back? Receptions, yards, yards per catch and TD's were all up. Drops were down. I agree that he may never be a #1 guy, but that's more a reflection of the talent of the other receivers. Of his 59 receptions in 2023, 49 were for 1st downs or touchdowns. He's not the most consistent guy, but he's a guy Love looks to in key situations.

[sharpe1027]

How do you figure he took a step back? Receptions, yards, yards per catch and TD's were all up. Drops were down. I agree that he may never be a #1 guy, but that's more a reflection of the talent of the other receivers. Of his 59 receptions in 2023, 49 were for 1st downs or touchdowns. He's not the most consistent guy, but he's a guy Love looks to in key situations.

If you only look at the full year stat line, you miss that his rookie year he only played in 13 games and started only 7. More importantly, the opinion of how good he can be has shifted downward since his rookie year. That is, afterall, my whole point. The difference between one year of productivity at a certain level and 2 or 3 consecutive years is pretty important.

[sharpe1027]

In 2 seasons Gute did a complete rebuild of the entire WR room with no FA signings and relatively little draft capital (no first round picks).

Has this ever been done before in the NFL? I can’t remember ever seeing something like this.
It's very impressive.

[Scott Campbell]

Lots of people were really excited about how great he was as a rookie and expectations of how we would keep improving. He took a pretty good step back in year 2. People are now singing a different tune and he's not even in the discussion of being a number one WR for us.

I don’t think Doubs took a step back in year 2. He ceded some playing time to all the draft picks and saw yardage and TD’s decrease with more mouths to feed, but his PFF grade improved in 23 to 68.9 from 62.6 in 22. That’s a pretty nice improvement. I think he was a decent player as a rook, and a bit better player as a sophomore.

I’m not aware of anybody that expected Doubs to emerge as our #1. I don’t remember anyone gushing over “how great he was as a rookie”. You’re the first person I’ve heard say he “took a pretty good step back in year 2”.

I think it’s fair to say he’s out produced his draft status thus far.

[sharpe1027]

Take a walk down memory lane. Comps to Jefferson! even in the thread.This was the first thread I found from back then. I suspect there are more.

https://packerrats.com/showthread.php?32362-Receiving-corps(e)/page4

[sharpe1027]

I think it’s fair to say he’s out produced his draft status thus far.
This is true.

I'm not trying to be controversial, but The assumption that they're all going to trend upward from here is unrealistic. The assumption that even one of them will be a true number 1 WR is not guaranteed.

[Scott Campbell]

Take a walk down memory lane. Comps to Jefferson! even in the thread.This was the first thread I found from back then. I suspect there are more.

https://packerrats.com/showthread.php?32362-Receiving-corps(e)/page4

The last post in your linked thread was October 4. The bulk of the thread was training camp fluff. There certainly was no legitimate analysis of his rookie year performance as there were still 3/4s of the season left to play when the thread ended.

[sharpe1027]

My bad SC. I might be wrong, but I know people, myself included, that were much more bullish on Doubs a year ago.

[Scott Campbell]

This is true.

I'm not trying to be controversial, but The assumption that they're all going to trend upward from here is unrealistic. The assumption that even one of them will be a true number 1 WR is not guaranteed.

I don’t see anyone saying they will all go up from here, because they probably won’t. The beauty of this corps is that there are so many contenders that it doesn’t matter if my favorite happens to flop.

I still wouldn’t mind it if they keep spreading it around so we never have to back up the truck for a true number 1. Look at what is happening to Tee Higgins now that they had to pay Chase #1 money.

As long as our passing game is as lethal as it was down the stretch I could care less about someone emerging as a true number 1. Feed ‘em all.

[Joemailman]

There was a lot of Kool-aid drinking about Doubs in training camp and early 2022. It was tempered a bit after he missed 4 games and struggled a bit when he returned from the injury. I don't remember how high expectations were going into last year.

[sharpe1027]

I'm with the sentiment, SC. I don't care about a true #1. I just think some of what I'm reading is a bit bullish on how good our WR core really is.

[ThunderDan]

Here is my thought.

None of these guys would be doing as well as they are if they weren’t in The Flowers offense.

LaFleur really schemes his players open. So much motion and plays they develop from previous plays.

I don’t think any of these guys would be producing in McCarthy’s offense we ran at the end of his time here.

Watson and Wicks are the two I think could develop into #1s.

[ThunderDan]

Also, LefFleur uses the TE and middle of the field in his offense. We went away from that for years after Finley got hurt.

That really helps the WR when you know the route isn’t going down the sideline like ARod did over and over. Only ARods ability to drop it in a bucket kept our O running at times.

[bobblehead]

Here is my thought.

None of these guys would be doing as well as they are if they weren’t in The Flowers offense.

LaFleur really schemes his players open. So much motion and plays they develop from previous plays.

I don’t think any of these guys would be producing in McCarthy’s offense we ran at the end of his time here.

Watson and Wicks are the two I think could develop into #1s.

Yes and no. LaFleur is running the time proven Shannahan offense that gives Ds fits. It relies on a solid run game and as you said, previous plays setting things up. These guys are pretty good. Wicks had a monster separation rate when he played though, and that's not all scheme. If it were Allen Lazard would have been better.

[bobblehead]

Also, LefFleur uses the TE and middle of the field in his offense. We went away from that for years after Finley got hurt.

That really helps the WR when you know the route isn’t going down the sideline like ARod did over and over. Only ARods ability to drop it in a bucket kept our O running at times.

But was that Rodgers or was it fat mike? I guess fat mike developed Rodgers so chicken and egg.

[Bretsky]

Yes and no. LaFleur is running the time proven Shannahan offense that gives Ds fits. It relies on a solid run game and as you said, previous plays setting things up. These guys are pretty good. Wicks had a monster separation rate when he played though, and that's not all scheme. If it were Allen Lazard would have been better.


It amazes me there was a GM stupid enough to sign the Lizard for over 10 MIL/year. He was system made IMO.

I'm way more bullish on Wicks than nearly everybody. Liked him very early.

Doubbs is fine but I'm not sure who to compare him to.

Reed looks very good and a more talented version of Cobb

And Watson is a freak and really good at certain routes when he's healthy. Is Tank's buddy DJ Metcalf a comp ?

[Joemailman]

It amazes me there was a GM stupid enough to sign the Lizard for over 10 MIL/year. He was system made IMO.

I'm way more bullish on Wicks than nearly everybody. Liked him very early.

Doubbs is fine but I'm not sure who to compare him to.

Reed looks very good and a more talented version of Cobb

And Watson is a freak and really good at certain routes when he's healthy. Is Tank's buddy DJ Metcalf a comp ?

Metcalf is more powerful. He outweighs Watson by about 25 pounds. Watson might be the better route runner. Speed is comparable.

The Lazard thing was a package deal. Jets were after the QB. I don't think anyone else would have given him that money.

[RashanGary]

My bad SC. I might be wrong, but I know people, myself included, that were much more bullish on Doubs a year ago.

I was too. Shocked he didn’t take off.

[bobblehead]

I have always viewed Doubs as the possession 1st down guy...not a slot WR, but a guy who sits down before the safeties and gets you first downs like Michael Thomas at his best.

I also was more bullish on Wicks than Reed, but Reed exceeded my expectations. He also has exceeded Wicks so far, but that story is far from finished.

As for Metcalf, he was a 2nd round pick because his agility numbers weren't elite calling into question his ability to ever run great routes. Watson is different. Metcalf is a bully who can just outjump/outmuscle DBs. Watson is a freak who can't be covered if it all comes together. Watson can however be pressed at the line. Metcalf can't.

[Fritz]

Doubs fits well here because he'll go quiet and get ignored, but Love will find him on that key third-and-twelve or fourth-and-five.

If Watson can stay healthy, look out. Imagine all the room underneath Wicks and Reed (and Melton) will have if a corner and safety both have to go with Watson consistently.

[Scott Campbell]

Imagine all the room underneath Wicks and Reed (and Melton) will have if a corner and safety both have to go with Watson consistently.

Melton ran a slightly faster 40 at the combine than Watson. Both those guys should be able to take the top off a defense.

[MadScientist]

Also, LefFleur uses the TE and middle of the field in his offense. We went away from that for years after Finley got hurt.

That really helps the WR when you know the route isn’t going down the sideline like ARod did over and over. Only ARods ability to drop it in a bucket kept our O running at times.


But was that Rodgers or was it fat mike? I guess fat mike developed Rodgers so chicken and egg.

More like TT and Gute all but ignoring the position and getting poor talent when they didn't ignore it. When your featured TE's are Dick Rod or Slowburger, throwing down the middle is a losing proposition.

[sharpe1027]

Melton ran a slightly faster 40 at the combine than Watson. Both those guys should be able to take the top off a defense.

It takes more than just running a fast forty to do what Watson has already done.Having five inches on Melton is part of it, but not all. I'll believe it when I see it start happening in the games consistently, not before.

[Scott Campbell]

It takes more than just running a fast forty to do what Watson has already done.Having five inches on Melton is part of it, but not all. I'll believe it when I see it start happening in the games consistently, not before.

Nobody said he’s going to do what Watson has already done. I said he has the elite speed you want to take the top off a defense. That’s not exactly unconventional thinking.

Melton is a roster lock. He’s likely the 5th receiver. That’s tremendous progress for a guy claimed off waivers during his rookie year. In my opinion he did enough last year to prove he can fill in really nicely when injuries strike, primarily because he’s already done just that. He’s the 3rd best blocker in the receiving room behind only Watson and Heath. His 9.24 RAS is starting to show up on some game film. But if you want to be really conservative you could always wait till the guy retires before you commit to believing it.

How many 5th WRs in the league do you rank as better than Melton?

[bobblehead]

More like TT and Gute all but ignoring the position and getting poor talent when they didn't ignore it. When your featured TE's are Dick Rod or Slowburger, throwing down the middle is a losing proposition.

I disagree. The packers had some talented guys around, but Rodgers doesn't like the middle of the field. His 2 faves at TE were Finley and the guy who wouldn't block...what was his name from the rams I think. Then TT wouldn't pay him like an all pro after 7 good games where he still didn't throw a block. Both of those guys were more sideline wide TEs than inline guys who could split the seam. There were several that might have developed if Rodgers used them properly. Just cuz we didn't draft any TEs in round 1 didn't mean it was ignored.

[run pMc]

If they have a good group of WRs like it appears they do, I don't care if they have a WR1 or not. Makes it harder for a defense to focus on one player (a la Devante and scrubs).

In terms of WR1, WR2, etc., I'd categorize Doubs as a very good WR3, potentially to be a decent WR2. He's like a James Jones type to me. I don't think Doubs is explosive, but he seems to be clutch and Love trusts him in the RZ.
Watson is all potential. If he can stay healthy, look out.

100% agree you can't assume all these guys will continue to develop, or develop on a steady, steep trajectory. I do think there is tremendous potential with this group still. And yeah, I like Melton as WR5.

there was a bunch of chatter about some clickbait article throwing out a trade idea of CeeDee for one of Watson/Doubs PLUS Reed PLUS a R2 pick. LOLOLOL no effing way anyone does that. You'd gut your receiving corps AND have to sign Lamb to a massive extension.
GB is the envy of many GMs with their young, talented, (potentially) emerging, and very CHEAP receiving corps. You do not trade that away.

I do agree with those who have theorized WRs could become the new RBs. Almost every year the WR draft classes come out deep and talented, and they no longer need a 3 year development curve. Paying a player $30M to make 7 catches a game is an expensive proposition, especially when you can try your luck every year in the draft.

[sharpe1027]

Nobody said he’s going to do what Watson has already done. I said he has the elite speed you want to take the top off a defense. That’s not exactly unconventional thinking.

Melton is a roster lock. He’s likely the 5th receiver. That’s tremendous progress for a guy claimed off waivers during his rookie year. In my opinion he did enough last year to prove he can fill in really nicely when injuries strike, primarily because he’s already done just that. He’s the 3rd best blocker in the receiving room behind only Watson and Heath. His 9.24 RAS is starting to show up on some game film. But if you want to be really conservative you could always wait till the guy retires before you commit to believing it.

How many 5th WRs in the league do you rank as better than Melton?

Hold on, I neither said nor implied anything about Melton as a roster lock, over performing expectations, or waiting until he retires to believe he can take to top off a defense.

I was responding to your statement "both those guys should be able to take the top off defenses." Melton isn't there yet. Defenses aren't shifting coverage his way. I didn't say it's not possible, but I've seen enough fast WRs to not compare him to some that's already caused that to happen with play on the field and not just combine numbers.

[Scott Campbell]

Defenses aren't shifting coverage his way.

Any deep safety that doesn’t account for Melton’s or Watson’s speed isn’t a very thorough professional. I think it’s naive to believe that NFL scouting departments don’t know that this guy can fly.

The Packers saw enough from Melton to make Malik Heath a healthy scratch in both playoff games.

[Arctic Fox]

I think Wicks will have the most receptions this season, with Reed a close second.

[sharpe1027]

Any deep safety that doesn’t account for Melton’s or Watson’s speed isn’t a very thorough professional. I think it’s naive to believe that NFL scouting departments don’t know that this guy can fly.

The Packers saw enough from Melton to make Malik Heath a healthy scratch in both playoff games.

I know NFL teams know Melton is fast. The post you responded to was expressing excitement to things opening up for the other good WRs if Watson is healthy. I don't think Melton commands as much respect as Watson and won't open things up like Watson.

[Scott Campbell]

I know NFL teams know Melton is fast. The post you responded to was expressing excitement to things opening up for the other good WRs if Watson is healthy. I don't think Melton commands as much respect as Watson and won't open things up like Watson.


Almost got it. Fritz talked about things opening up "underneath". That's what I responded to because not everbody knows that Melton is faster than Watson.

[sharpe1027]

Almost got it. Fritz talked about things opening up "underneath". That's what I responded to because not everbody knows that Melton is faster than Watson.

Okay. I don't think Melton commands as much respect as Watson and won't open things up underneath like Watson. At least not until he beats them consistently.

[Joemailman]

I don't think Melton really is faster than Watson despite the 40 times at Combine. Watson had ended the 2021 season with a hamstring injury and would then need minor knee surgery in June 2022. I doubt he was running 100% at the Combine. The speed Watson showed against Bears and Eagles in 2022 was something I've rarely seen on the football field. He destroyed angles.

[RashanGary]

I know NFL teams know Melton is fast. The post you responded to was expressing excitement to things opening up for the other good WRs if Watson is healthy. I don't think Melton commands as much respect as Watson and won't open things up like Watson.

I kind of think that too. They both ran in the upper 4.3s but sometimes guys don’t quite play at their combine speed. Watson plays every bit of his timed speed and maybe more. I haven’t seen enough of melton to know if he plays as fast as Watson.

[Scott Campbell]

I don't think Melton really is faster than Watson despite the 40 times at Combine. Watson had ended the 2021 season with a hamstring injury and would then need minor knee surgery in June 2022. I doubt he was running 100% at the Combine. The speed Watson showed against Bears and Eagles in 2022 was something I've rarely seen on the football field. He destroyed angles.

Watson was healthy enough at the combine to run a faster 10 yard split, 20 yard split and 3 cone drill than Melton. But maybe the hammy didn’t impact those. I don’t know - I’m not a doctor.

I think both guys have elite top speed.

“Bo Melton and Christian Watson were two of the fastest players at Bommarito Performance Center last winter, and they knew it.
While preparing for the 2022 NFL Scouting Combine, the two receivers pushed one another during training sessions in Miami. The main event was the 40-yard dash, where Melton and Watson consistently produced sub-4.4-second times.
Watson often got the better of that exchange while running in the 4.2s but Melton wasn't far behind. When it came time to travel to Indianapolis for the NFL Scouting Combine, the light-hearted competition to see who would come out on top reached its apex.
The Winner? Melton, by two-hundredths of a second.”

Wes Hodkiewicz

[bobblehead]

Later in the year Melton took on the "Tyrik Hill" role in the packers offense. MiLF even commented about taking some things from Miami and implementing them. Melton is a better fit for that type of role than taking the top off the D. Maybe he can do it, but the NFL scrap heap is littered with sub 4.4 40s.

[RashanGary]

the NFL scrap heap is littered with sub 4.4 40s.

Absolutely. Janis was a 6’3 220lb low 4.4 guy and he was garbage. The list of elite speed guys and elite athletes who can’t play the receiver position is endless.

I’m gonna disagree with you on Hill. I don’t know how long he’s going to last, but prime Tyreek is way more than an underneath YAC guy. He plays big. He attacks the ball. You’d never call him a possession guy, but he’s middle of the pack even in his worst quality, of using his body to make contested catches.

Tyreek is a deep threat better than any I’ve seen not named Randy Moss.

And the thing you’re boxing him in as, he’s also the best at that.


The guy can do everything and a couple things he does better than any I’ve seen. He’s a small step below Randy Moss for me. And it’s close. He’s the best receiver in football. He’s the best receiver since Moss, and I think he might be the second best receiver of all time.

[run pMc]

I see Melton as more of a Jayden Reed replacement than a Watson replacement, although he does have deep speed. I think they can use him on end arounds/jet sweeps and stuff out of the slot or in motion where he can have a two-way-go on a free release and put a slot corner in a real bind.

He's not in the Wicks or Doubs mold at all IMO.

He's a nice depth piece and in the driver's seat for WR5, but Malik Heath, Dubose, Toure, and all the UDFAs will be pushing him. I'm not sure if they keep 5 or 6 WRs, I'd think 6.

[bobblehead]

Absolutely. Janis was a 6’3 220lb low 4.4 guy and he was garbage. The list of elite speed guys and elite athletes who can’t play the receiver position is endless.

I’m gonna disagree with you on Hill. I don’t know how long he’s going to last, but prime Tyreek is way more than an underneath YAC guy. He plays big. He attacks the ball. You’d never call him a possession guy, but he’s middle of the pack even in his worst quality, of using his body to make contested catches.

Tyreek is a deep threat better than any I’ve seen not named Randy Moss.

And the thing you’re boxing him in as, he’s also the best at that.


The guy can do everything and a couple things he does better than any I’ve seen. He’s a small step below Randy Moss for me. And it’s close. He’s the best receiver in football. He’s the best receiver since Moss, and I think he might be the second best receiver of all time.

I didn't say Hill couldn't do other things, but his bread and butter is a mid range catch, that somehow has him 7 yards from the nearest defender then using burst to tack on 20 more. That is what Melton was doing a lot of late. I think you over rate Hill, but not by a lot. He does attack the ball in a way I have never seen a 5'8" guy do. I always said Moss is the best I ever watched when he is focused, but Rice was 2nd and always focused. I could lump 30 guys behind them at #3a thru 3ad and Hill would be on that list, but I can't definitively say Hill is better than Fitz, Tim Brown or Art Monk.

[MadtownPacker]

Later in the year Melton took on the "Tyrik Hill" role in the packers offense. MiLF even commented about taking some things from Miami and implementing them. Melton is a better fit for that type of role than taking the top off the D. Maybe he can do it, but the NFL scrap heap is littered with sub 4.4 40s.
I can see this comparison. Has that same tough style of playing too.

Yup speed gets you into the NFL but can’t keep you there if your hands suck.

[RashanGary]

I didn't say Hill couldn't do other things, but his bread and butter is a mid range catch, that somehow has him 7 yards from the nearest defender then using burst to tack on 20 more. That is what Melton was doing a lot of late. I think you over rate Hill, but not by a lot. He does attack the ball in a way I have never seen a 5'8" guy do. I always said Moss is the best I ever watched when he is focused, but Rice was 2nd and always focused. I could lump 30 guys behind them at #3a thru 3ad and Hill would be on that list, but I can't definitively say Hill is better than Fitz, Tim Brown or Art Monk.

Steve Smith was a 5’9” guy who played big. Tyreek is kind of that with generational speed.

[bobblehead]

Steve Smith was a 5’9” guy who played big. Tyreek is kind of that with generational speed.

I almost put steve smith on my little sample list above, but I think he only was really good for like 5 years. But as a little dude, yes, he did it first.

Looked it up. He was better than I remember. 8 thousand yard seasons and played 15 years.

[RashanGary]

It’ll be interesting to see how Tyreek’s career finishes. He’s one of the special ones for me though.

Kittle when he was at his peak
Moss
Tyreek
Barry Sanders

He’s on a short list of most spectacular skill players I’ve ever watched.

[RashanGary]

And I know there is something to be said for the Jerry Rice’s and Emmitt Smith’s and this generations Justin Jefferson’s and Davante Adams and Tom Brady’s….

But there is something different that separates the uniquely spectacular from the crowd.


When it comes to winning I’m not even saying my spectacular group is better. But just jaw dropping athletic feats… I have a small list of guys I just loved to watch play.

[Scott Campbell]

I put Sterling Sharpe at his peak up with anyone I’ve ever watched play.

Defenses knew exactly who was getting the ball and still couldn’t slow him down.

[RashanGary]

I put Sterling Sharpe at his peak up with anyone I’ve ever watched play.

Defenses knew exactly who was getting the ball and still couldn’t slow him down.

Crossed my mind because he was my childhood sports hero, but I don’t know if I trust my 8 year olds evaluation enough. But he was the other one that crossed my mind.

[sharpe1027]

At his peak legitimate arguments where being made about whether Sharpe was better than Rice. Had he played longer, maybe we would know. As it stands, I can't put him at that level.

[Bretsky]

Absolutely. Janis was a 6’3 220lb low 4.4 guy and he was garbage. The list of elite speed guys and elite athletes who can’t play the receiver position is endless.

I’m gonna disagree with you on Hill. I don’t know how long he’s going to last, but prime Tyreek is way more than an underneath YAC guy. He plays big. He attacks the ball. You’d never call him a possession guy, but he’s middle of the pack even in his worst quality, of using his body to make contested catches.

Tyreek is a deep threat better than any I’ve seen not named Randy Moss.

And the thing you’re boxing him in as, he’s also the best at that.


The guy can do everything and a couple things he does better than any I’ve seen. He’s a small step below Randy Moss for me. And it’s close. He’s the best receiver in football. He’s the best receiver since Moss, and I think he might be the second best receiver of all time.

Bill Schroeder
Jeff Janis
Jared Abbrederis
Whitewater Jesus


Lotta sub par WhiteWR's

[Bretsky]

I put Sterling Sharpe at his peak up with anyone I’ve ever watched play.

Defenses knew exactly who was getting the ball and still couldn’t slow him down.


I agree; he was kinda a prick but I don't think I'd argue any WR I ever watched was better than Sterling Sharpe

[bobblehead]

I put Sterling Sharpe at his peak up with anyone I’ve ever watched play.

Defenses knew exactly who was getting the ball and still couldn’t slow him down.

Sharpe definitely didn't play long enough to be a top 30 all time, but I agree. If you just want to go with most dominant 5 years, Sharpe was pretty freaking awesome. He also was ascending when his career ended. Scary to think, but he might have gotten a little better still.

[MadtownPacker]

It’ll be interesting to see how Tyreek’s career finishes. He’s one of the special ones for me though.

Kittle when he was at his peak
Moss
Tyreek
Barry Sanders

He’s on a short list of most spectacular skill players I’ve ever watched.
What did you think about Megatron? He could be 2nd to Moss.

Steve Smith was like a Tasmanian devil with his short self back when he was doing it. Getting in fights at practice :lol:.

[Scott Campbell]

Never mind.