Gute presser

[RashanGary]

Team and coaches resilient.

Excited to build around Love

Most excited that love was steady through it all

Got better because Love and teammates got reps

Once they stopped working on results and just focused on getting better each day, it got better.

Going to start on love contract In a couple months.

Credit to players and coaches for sticking together and offense playing best at end

Proud of backups who stepped up

Proud of jaire and doesn’t want to trade.

Thought about a kicker at end of season. There wasn’t much out there. Expected Carlson to have these bumps and is going to give him a chance.

Expects Aaron Jones back. He’s a difference maker and the heartbeat of team

David has a long way to go and will work through if he comes back when the time comes.

Said wants Jaire and Jones back and “we’ll see” on Bakh

Moments defense was really good but there’s much more out there. Had problems in the back end. Going to be moving pieces.

Excited about Half-Assley

It’s a 4-2-5 league. Will be similar that way. Figuring out exactly how the pieces will fit.

He’s very well respected. Loves the HC background on half-assley

Bakh in middle of recovery. It’s going to take time. He has a great work ethic.

Doesn’t feel ahead of schedule because he always expects to be great. Doesn’t have expectations like that because doesn’t want to limit team.

Glad to see guys handle adversity

Had a lot of guys play early. Big thing is that just because they had success in year 1 their spots not safe. It’s going to be competitive

The your job is not safe thing is funny. 12 found that out. So did 4. He said it like a threat, haha

Felt should have won divisional game. Felt culture shift in how things came together.

Cap in good shape. Can add

Depends on player if he’ll dip in. An impact player will be added if he’s there. It’s aboht winning.

Process driven. Wants to focus on process and as you do things that way, things come together. Whole building is process driven.

you can hear the coaches son in Gute

Knew Jordan was the guy in 2019. Laughs. Gives the credit to Jordan on getting better every year and handling adversity.

Love has more potential. He has a very high upside. Said new quarterbacks can play well, but it evolves eventually to playing well and winning and he did that quickly. Said the handling responsibilities at the line is the part guys need to get better at for the winning to start happening

I liked that when he said young quarterbacks start out playing well but losing and it’s a process to play well and win. You can play well individually but if the tempo is clutsy because you’re a clutz running the show, the rest of the team doesn’t play well and you lose despite your good play

Knew there would be small victories with young players and even when they were losing saw the signs. Credit to coaches to just keep pushing process knowing the results would come.

Just coincidence that they started playing well when Rasul left.

Thinks being young is a positive not a negative. He’s a ted disciple. Hated the young team excuse. Said you should win young. No excuse.

Competition accelerates growth. When they have to compete to play they work harder.

More draft picks near the top than usual. Ammo to move, get a vet, better cap situation, ability to help the team with all the ammo.

Doesn’t mind the flack. Ted told him when he took the job it’s a lot of criticism. Ted said, “are you sure you want this?” Gute is going to do what’s best and the criticism is part of it. He’s ok with taking that flack. He knew it was coming. His dad was a HC he’s seen this his whole life.

been around football as coaches son his whole life. Been on team for a long time. Ready for criticism and he’s good with it

Credit to Rasheed. Tremendous improvement in offseason. Going to add completion. But he has a bright future and he’s only getting better

Will put Tom where ever he’s needed. Trying to get best 5. Doesn’t want to move him from tackle, but if he needs to, they’ll do it.

Tom could move

4-2-5 league. Not a wholesale change. Will get into what Jeff wants to do and there might be conversations for how things fit

Always adds versatile players

Quay a fantastic versatile piece.

reporter asked about new scheme fits. Gute talked about he’s always drafted versatile players so most of our guys already fit. Only player Gute singled out as being fantastic and versatile is Quay

Considers need but knows it always changes. So mostly just takes best players. Wants to add competition even if a room is good.

Players learn how to take care of body and many get better at staying healthy.

Watson impactful. The more he’s out there the better

Gizzi an outstanding coach. Maybe players need a different voice. Players buying in is most important.

Solid draft for safety. Solid FA class for safety. Going to sit down with Jeff. Needs numbers for sure.

Safety, nickle all those positions becoming interchangeable.

It’s better not to push out cap space. Russ doesn’t like doing that. But if we’re going to compete we’re always going to do some of that. After Covid it got worse but it’s getting back to healthy.

Having the young guys do just as well as veterans last year didn’t change his mind on young being good. But organizationally, he thinks a lot of people started to see how youth and competition helps. Competition is the driver. Make these guys have to compete to play and they play their best

Expectation is always to win SB. Work and process.




The things he repeated over and over was PROCESS and competition and no one’s job is safe. Completely different tune with Bakh than with Jones and Jaire.

[RashanGary]

The first time he said guys played well but their job is not safe was funny. He sounded pissed off and ready to start hacking them down the moment they slip :lol:

Gute definitely relishes the bad cop role and lets Flower be the good cop.

[Fritz]

The first time he said guys played well but their job is not safe was funny. He sounded pissed off and ready to start hacking them down the moment they slip :lol:

Gute definitely relishes the bad cop role and lets Flower be the good cop.

And that's as it should be. That works best. Ted was the same.

Would love, love, love to see them snooker the Jest into trading for Bakh. Maybe get a fourth or fifth for him, maybe?

Glad to hear they welcome Jones back though of course they've got to do something with that contract.

Exciting to think they found their left tackle already. Walker improved and improved and will be better next year. Also sounds like they might leave Tom at RT and, maybe, draft a center and/or guard?

[George Cumby]

Nice synopsis, RG. I appreciate it.

I love that Half-Assley is already in our common vernacular.

[Joemailman]

Just listened to a podcast with JR Radcliffe, Tom Silverstein and Ryan Wood. Silverstein and Wood agreed that there is no way Bakhtiari is back. Hard to see Campbell or Savage back either. Dillon a maybe.
https://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2024/02/01/green-19-podcast-a-new-defensive-coordinator-and-offseason-questions/72446237007/

[George Cumby]

I think Dillon is worth bringing back at the right price, but Gute should be looking for a replacement in the draft.

[texaspackerbacker]

I agree about Dillon, but only if he's cheap. And yes, I want a quality speed RB to rotate with Jones.

I'm not so negative on Savage, though. There's a lot I haven't liked about him, but he's our only speedy Safety, and if we are gonna play single high Safety a lot, that's what we need. I've read people say Savage isn't suited for that role. No, that's exactly what he is suited for. These bigger hard hitting Safetys - Owens, Johnson, maybe Ford, the kind of Safety I like to have at least one of on the field - are not fast enough to be that "centerfielder".

Bakhtiari gone, hell yeah. Campbell gone? strongly likely.

[Joemailman]

I think Dillon is worth bringing back at the right price, but Gute should be looking for a replacement in the draft.

Yep. They need a better weapon at RB for those times when Aaron Jones is out or needs a break.

[Frozen Tundra]

Yep. They need a better weapon at RB for those times when Aaron Jones is out or needs a break.

They solve that problem if they draft a replacement for Jones this spring, and that should be a priority anyway. There are a good half-dozen backs out there we should be able to get with one of our 2nd or 3rd round picks, and we can develop him this season by having him split time with Aaron, or share snaps with him on 2-back formations. Seems like Lafleur could come up with a few ideas for how to make creative use of 3 quality backs, all with different skill sets.

[bobblehead]

I agree about Dillon, but only if he's cheap. And yes, I want a quality speed RB to rotate with Jones.

I'm not so negative on Savage, though. There's a lot I haven't liked about him, but he's our only speedy Safety, and if we are gonna play single high Safety a lot, that's what we need. I've read people say Savage isn't suited for that role. No, that's exactly what he is suited for. These bigger hard hitting Safetys - Owens, Johnson, maybe Ford, the kind of Safety I like to have at least one of on the field - are not fast enough to be that "centerfielder".

Bakhtiari gone, hell yeah. Campbell gone? strongly likely.

A high single safety is basically playing a really big zone. Savage has proven his instincts just aren't that great. Just like playing CF in baseball if you break .7 seconds later on a ball you lose 19 feet of coverage. .35 seconds you lose 8.5 feet. Thats if you run a 4.4 like savage did. So lets say Savage breaks .175 seconds later than a guy running a 4.5. He is 3 feet later getting to the point. Thats a catch. That is missing the angle on a tackle. Savage doesn't have the instincts to play that role like Earl Thomas did.

[MadtownPacker]

They solve that problem if they draft a replacement for Jones this spring, and that should be a priority anyway. There are a good half-dozen backs out there we should be able to get with one of our 2nd or 3rd round picks, and we can develop him this season by having him split time with Aaron, or share snaps with him on 2-back formations. Seems like Lafleur could come up with a few ideas for how to make creative use of 3 quality backs, all with different skill sets.
Welcome to PackerRats. You registered long ago but never posted so now your account has been activated and your post can be seen be all. Let me know if any questions.

[RashanGary]

A high single safety is basically playing a really big zone. Savage has proven his instincts just aren't that great. Just like playing CF in baseball if you break .7 seconds later on a ball you lose 19 feet of coverage. .35 seconds you lose 8.5 feet. Thats if you run a 4.4 like savage did. So lets say Savage breaks .175 seconds later than a guy running a 4.5. He is 3 feet later getting to the point. Thats a catch. That is missing the angle on a tackle. Savage doesn't have the instincts to play that role like Earl Thomas did.

I didn’t know the math, but exactly. You’d rather a guy trigger on time than run .1 seconds faster in a 40. But if you’re going to play single high man more than just a few surprise times a game, you’re going to need a guy who’s 4.44 or faster AND triggers on time. And really, at any given point there are between zero to three of those guys in the world so it’s really not something you see much of in the NFL. Ed Reed, Nick Collins, Earl Thomas are a few of the recent ones. Don’t know if there’s anyone in the league now who can do it reliably enough to be able to play that coverage. So it’s a bit of a pipe dream that we’re going to be the most aggressive defense in the NFL and not get chewed up for it.

But Kam Kinchens has a profile where maybe he could be the next one. Odds are slim, but he seems like a maybe it’s possible prospect.

Gotta have really fast corners too. And we have that. So it’s finding the unicorn at free safety and the dream could come true.

[RashanGary]

It’s kind of being so elite at both corners and free safety that those three guys do the job of 4.

The likelihood of that happening, although it has a few times (see shields, Tramon and Collins with Wood at nickle)


The odds are like having 3 Reggie white types where you can have 3-man DLs and have an extra defender to do all sorts of stuff no one else in the league can do.


Don’t see a lot of the three guys doing 4 jobs in the NFL. The level is so high, you just can’t find too many who are so good they can make up for a whole extra defender.

[texaspackerbacker]

A high single safety is basically playing a really big zone. Savage has proven his instincts just aren't that great. Just like playing CF in baseball if you break .7 seconds later on a ball you lose 19 feet of coverage. .35 seconds you lose 8.5 feet. Thats if you run a 4.4 like savage did. So lets say Savage breaks .175 seconds later than a guy running a 4.5. He is 3 feet later getting to the point. Thats a catch. That is missing the angle on a tackle. Savage doesn't have the instincts to play that role like Earl Thomas did.

I tend to agree with you about Savage, but he is the kind of player you need to play that single high Safety - meaning fast. His instincts, though, are kinda lacking. If they conclude that instinct thing is not curable with better coaching, then we need a different speedy Safety.

I'd rather see something more like the umbrella coverage the Packers played late in the season.

[bobblehead]

I didn’t know the math, but exactly. You’d rather a guy trigger on time than run .1 seconds faster in a 40. But if you’re going to play single high man more than just a few surprise times a game, you’re going to need a guy who’s 4.44 or faster AND triggers on time. And really, at any given point there are between zero to three of those guys in the world so it’s really not something you see much of in the NFL. Ed Reed, Nick Collins, Earl Thomas are a few of the recent ones. Don’t know if there’s anyone in the league now who can do it reliably enough to be able to play that coverage. So it’s a bit of a pipe dream that we’re going to be the most aggressive defense in the NFL and not get chewed up for it.

But Kam Kinchens has a profile where maybe he could be the next one. Odds are slim, but he seems like a maybe it’s possible prospect.

Gotta have really fast corners too. And we have that. So it’s finding the unicorn at free safety and the dream could come true.

I agree with you on most points you made here (add Troy Polomalou if I spelled it even close).

I don't get too into draft research, but kinchens name has popped up a few times and he does seem to fit the bill based on what I have read. But one thing you miss. You don't need to have THE BEST guy at playing that role. You can have a guy who is "merely good" and be successful if you generate pressure. If you have good coverage. All defenses are based on not having breakdowns and doing enough things well that the other team can't find success. You can stop the pass with great coverage OR getting to the QB. Or you can be really good at both. You can't suck at either one.

[australianpackerbacker]

This team is loaded and headed for consistent meaningful success provided a few assumptions play out as anticipated.

Jaire leaving would be a mistake. Get cut next year this new scheme will highlight your top 5 ability if you stay healthy. Big if on the latter.

Thank you Bakhtiari for your service time and commitment but you're the perfect casualty of age finance and circumstance. If you got another year left go the jets but I'll be the first to say you don't.

The main guy we need back is jones. Unless Barkley is available but he doesn't seem like a fit. Gutes attempt to trade for Jonathan Taylor recently says the satisfaction is talent isn't there.

[Frozen Tundra]

This team is loaded and headed for consistent meaningful success provided a few assumptions play out as anticipated.

Jaire leaving would be a mistake. Get cut next year this new scheme will highlight your top 5 ability if you stay healthy. Big if on the latter.

Thank you Bakhtiari for your service time and commitment but you're the perfect casualty of age finance and circumstance. If you got another year left go the jets but I'll be the first to say you don't.

The main guy we need back is jones. Unless Barkley is available but he doesn't seem like a fit. Gutes attempt to trade for Jonathan Taylor recently says the satisfaction is talent isn't there.

There's been some speculation that we'll be in the Barkley hunt this year, and I wouldn't mind having him at the right price. Free agent running backs are usually not a great move; they're in their mid-20s, and with their early expiration dates, this contract is usually their jackpot contract - their last chance at the big bucks. It's risky being the new team that pays out the huge payday right at the stage of their career where they're likely to start declining any year.

I think that's why we lost interest in Taylor - he cost the Colts $42M over 3 years, and I doubt Gutekunst wanted him badly enough to pay that kind of money. I've seen Barkley projected at $22M over 2 years, which is not as risky but still a lot of money. If we draft well, we can get a 2nd Round RB for (I think) $1.6 per, or a 3rd Rounder for (I think) $1.4. That leaves a hell of a lot of money on the table for other needs.

I think we resign Jones, and try to replace him in the draft this year.

[australianpackerbacker]

Nailed it. Risk vs return. 3 passes to wicks for 108yrds and a touchdown is the answer to the value question of running back. Unless he's special and Jones is, but the playing styles don't mesh so why get rid of home-grown greatness for an injury liability. Jones has the same risk but he's ours.

[Fritz]

Guter seems interested in adding a FA but running back does not seem like the right position for that.

[texaspackerbacker]

I'm hoping they do not go FA but draft somebody around the 3rd round. What we need to do to maximize Aaron Jones is to find somebody good enough to rotate with him and not have much drop off when he is not on the field. .

[run pMc]

I would not touch a RB before R3. I think they'll be looking at S, OL and maybe even a CB they can play in the slot before they take a RB. There isn't a Bijon in this draft, but there are Day 3 guys who can back up Jones.
Ray Davis, Jawhar Jordan, Marshawn Lloyd, hell maybe even Daijun Edwards. Trey Benson might be a nice get but he'll be Day 2. I would expect them to let Dillon and Taylor walk and draft 2 if not 3 RBs to compete with Wilson for spots.

Dillon is a great guy and he's not bad, but he's not a RB1 and there is no reason to bring him back if you're keeping Jones. It's like the Jones vs. Jamaal thing: you only need to keep one and bring in new guys. Having RBs on 4 year cheap deals is big for the cap, especially if they can play well.
Saquon would be a nice get in theory but he'll cost too much and he's had a ton of injuries. 2y/$22M? Pass.

The whole 'competition' thing isn't really new, but I think with what happened this year and the number of picks they will have I suspect there is a little more to it.
I would love to know if the comment is aimed at specific players (Rasheed, Rhyan) who had to platoon some... imagine giving Gute and the coaches truth serum and finding out know why the coaches did that and what they think of their roster now.

I don't expect them to be buyers in FA... not significant ones, anyway. They'll have to move money around as it is, and FA would force them to move even more, which Ball doesn't want to do. Understandibly. Love is gonna get paid in May.

[texaspackerbacker]

Glad to read you don't want to pay Saquon what he would cost. I'd say no to anywhere near what he would cost.

Dillon seems to have tried hard to be "Packer people". That's worth considering, but not to pay market value for him. A big back like him, cheap, wouldn't be bad, but sign him for the veteran minimum plus a nice gold key to Door County.

Glad you also agree RB about the 3rd. I like your list, but I'd add Braelon Allen probably at the top of the list. He has breakaway speed plus Dillon like power with some Aaron Jones shiftiness and tackle breaking too.

[RashanGary]

Detroit hard ass, GM Brad Holmes was on one at his end of year presser. Said the media want him to be accountable and then pointed his finger at a few of them and said, what about you? You said we should have taken a QB instead of Penai. What about you?

Kind of funny how it’s the medias job to make content. It doesn’t matter who they’re criticizing. Doesn’t matter what mob they’re riling up against a person. That’s their job. But when they create all this public scrutiny that threatens people’s jobs and they’re wrong, they don’t like when someone points back and says, know your role. You don’t know what you’re talking about.

Media want everyone accountable except themselves.

[RashanGary]

I’m loving this new era where athletes and execs drag the media the same way the media drags them. That’s the equal ground we always should have been on.

[RashanGary]

Detroit really hired to appeal to that Detroit blue collar, prison population. The GM looks like the tough, wise prison leader at your local Detroit corner prison. And their coach is that guy who’s gonna put a little hot sauce on dudes ankle when he makes a tackle. Some real back against the wall, claw and fight in the streets mentality there in Detroit.

[ThunderDan]

Detroit hard ass, GM Brad Holmes was on one at his end of year presser. Said the media want him to be accountable and then pointed his finger at a few of them and said, what about you? You said we should have taken a QB instead of Penai. What about you?

Kind of funny how it’s the medias job to make content. It doesn’t matter who they’re criticizing. Doesn’t matter what mob they’re riling up against a person. That’s their job. But when they create all this public scrutiny that threatens people’s jobs and they’re wrong, they don’t like when someone points back and says, know your role. You don’t know what you’re talking about.

Media want everyone accountable except themselves.

Sorry, got to completely disagree with this.

"Media" as you define it creates content because you click on it or subscribe to it. If you stop watching the "media" and clicking on their articles, maybe we could have "media" that actually reports what is happening in the game and in the clubhouse.

But that isn't going to happen because so many people like to watch a trainwreck happen, real or imaginary. The "media" is what it is because of the collective "us".

[texaspackerbacker]

RG, I'm not really familiar with the Lions situation you talked about, nor do I care, but in general, I agree with what you seem to be saying - the rottenness of the media in general. It also says something about the good quality of your post by who is disagreeing with you.

[run pMc]

If Gute acted like that at his presser, would we think it was a good look?
I'm not so sure.

What about Murphy or MLF?

While I agree some in the media behave reprehensibly, I think there are a lot of credentialed press who legitimately do a good job and shouldn't be lumped in with the bad. It's like saying all _____ are bad because one or two are. Journalists have broken some very important stories, let's not call them all pukes. As for the sensational stuff, if people didn't click on it or react to it, it wouldn't have any market. It's called clickbait for a reason, and a lot of journalists are pushed by editors or the higher ups to produce clicks for ad revenue.
That doesn't mean the media can or should act irresponsibly and if they deserve to be called out, fine. I assume we don't need reminders that freedom of press is critical to a democracy.

Personally I'd give something Silverstein writes more credence than whatever Skip Bayless spouts off about. There are journalists and there are commentators/opinion piece writers. If you want facts, stay away from the latter.

[RashanGary]

RG, I'm not really familiar with the Lions situation you talked about, nor do I care, but in general, I agree with what you seem to be saying - the rottenness of the media in general. It also says something about the good quality of your post by who is disagreeing with you.

Right. It doesn’t matter why the media writes garbage. They write garbage. You could say a drug dealer deals drugs because people want to buy drugs and put the blame on the buyer. It’s the same thing. Just because people click it doesn’t mean doing it is honorable.

[run pMc]

Right. It doesn’t matter why the media writes garbage. They write garbage. You could say a drug dealer deals drugs because people want to buy drugs and put the blame on the buyer. It’s the same thing. Just because people click it doesn’t mean doing it is honorable.

Um drugs are potentially fatal. A news story isn't.
Reminder: 95% of the information you get about the Packers is from a news source. The same could be said for draft information. If you think the JSO or SI or the Athletic are the equivalent of drug dealers, maybe you should quit reading.

[ThunderDan]

Right. It doesn’t matter why the media writes garbage. They write garbage. You could say a drug dealer deals drugs because people want to buy drugs and put the blame on the buyer. It’s the same thing. Just because people click it doesn’t mean doing it is honorable.

Sometimes you sure are thick.

If no one was buying drugs there wouldn't be drug dealers. I am not placing blame anywhere. It is simply a fact. No demand for a product, no one provides a product.

There are a lot of reputable sources of good information. Not all sources are garbage. Just because you click on garbage sources and stories doesn't mean most or all media is garbage.

[texaspackerbacker]

The huge majority of those claiming to be "journalists" actually are the other thing you mentioned, run pMc. RG equating them to drug dealers may be slightly extreme, but only by degree. People are starved for facts, especially in the realm of sports, and those bastards are pushing a large percentage of fake news. Granted, the strictly Packer media people may not be as bad as some others, but they certainly aren't guiltless.

[Fritz]

What nobody has mentioned yet is that this is all an interdependent system. Journalists need clicks - it’s the business model - and so they play to the lowest common denominator, because that gets the most clicks. An article breaking down the nuances of the PFF system versus an article suggesting Aaron Rodgers is throwing Guter under the bus - which one gets more play? Guess.

But if journalists DON’T cover a team, the team suffers. The team needs the media. All you people calling the media names? Uh, geez, look how many announcers - part of the media - are FORMER PLAYERS. The Packers will not do well if the media doesn’t cover them.

It’s a closed interdependent system. It’s not just the good guys and the bad guys.

[texaspackerbacker]

HOW exactly does the TEAM need those media assholes? HOW are you claiming the team would suffer? I can see arguing that the fans need facts/real information, not fake news masquerading as facts, but even that is a big nothing for the team. The only thing really needed is the directly quoted words and finished actions of the coach and GM and maybe occasionally players. Beyond that, hell no.

And no, announcers are NOT media pukes, commentators maybe - which is why they are annoying and not to be trusted in many cases also.

[RashanGary]

A drug dealer wants to make money the same way a lowest denominator journalist wants clicks. Wanting money doesn’t excuse all behavior. Hurting people is hurting people.

[RashanGary]

It’s like there’s this attitude in our culture that whatever they do for money, oh well, they just want clicks. Nah, drag them creeps the same way they drag everyone else. They’re not immune to being called out for their shit anymore than anyone else is. The, I want clicks, shit doesn’t mean they get a free psss to be ass holes.

[Fritz]

HOW exactly does the TEAM need those media assholes? HOW are you claiming the team would suffer? I can see arguing that the fans need facts/real information, not fake news masquerading as facts, but even that is a big nothing for the team. The only thing really needed is the directly quoted words and finished actions of the coach and GM and maybe occasionally players. Beyond that, hell no.

And no, announcers are NOT media pukes, commentators maybe - which is why they are annoying and not to be trusted in many cases also.

Maybe it's so obvious you can't see the forest for the trees.

Media generates interest. Big-time sports is an entertainment industry; as such, they are competing with the many, many other forms of entertainment out there for you attention and dollars. So your company - in this case the NFL - needs publicity. And they get it - for free - from the media.

If you're going to make the argument that the NFL is "too big to fail," then you've got to account for the fact that once-holy forms of entertainment - say, the movie industry - are shrinking. Baseball is concerned about being left behind, too.

So yes, the NFL needs the media - and the media needs the NFL.

[RashanGary]

Journalism is just as public of a job as sports. The public pays for them too. They constantly cry when someone drags them through the mud when a big chunk of what they do is drag other people because “they’re public figures.” And people need to know. Well, fair is fair. They’re public jobs too, they should get drug too.

[ThunderDan]

A drug dealer wants to make money the same way a lowest denominator journalist wants clicks. Wanting money doesn’t excuse all behavior. Hurting people is hurting people.

Your logic makes no sense.

If no one wants drugs there are no drug dealers.

Here is an experiment for you. Go get a bunch of rotary phones and try to sell them on a street corner. Come back and tell me how many you sold to people that use them as their primary phone.

Drug dealers sell drugs because there is a demand for them. Drug dealers by selling drugs cause a lot of pain in peoples lives and you certainly can argue the morality of selling drugs.

[Fritz]

Thunder, you're a smart guy. So you know that demand is not simply organic, or based on logic. Demand can be manufactured, manipulated. Think about cigarette companies adding elements to cigarettes in the early 1950's that they new would help people become addicted.

https://truthinitiative.org/research-resources/harmful-effects-tobacco/how-big-tobacco-made-cigarettes-more-addictive

I'm not being political here: this is just what many, many corporations do to increase sales: make wants become, or at least seem like, needs. There's been research done that shows that smartphones have a real impact on the human brain, making that brain crave the dopamine release from the constant "hit" of a new tiktok video, or a new sale on something, or whatever. It's an interconnected system. Free will, in my opinion, does play a part - I'm not completely disagreeing with you - I'm just saying we live in a world in which entities much larger than our individual selves do have real impact on the choices we are able to make.

And how about Guter getting fired up about this team? The whole organization seems - just my opinion - to be unleashed after years of seeming to be captive to Aaron Rodgers. There's an energy here we haven't seen in a few years.

[RashanGary]

Drug dealers sell drugs because there is a demand for them. Drug dealers by selling drugs cause a lot of pain in peoples lives and you certainly can argue the morality of selling drugs.

Drug dealers sell drugs because there is a demand is 100% equal to low denominator journalism selling clicks on creepy content because of demand. It’s the same reason both happen. Demand. The demand is a constant between the two. That’s not equating severity. Just the demand aspect.

Drug dealers cause harm in a way that law enforcement and the judicial system punish rather than excuse

My stance is that creepy journalism causes harm to other people in a way that the public and anyone with a large platform has every right to drag them through the mud rather than excuse them and let them have free reign on public opinion.

Same supply and demand. Different levels of harm so different levels of consequences. But just excusing it because they want money is kind of silly. Let these coaches, players and GMs call them out so we all know what dirt bags they are.

[Frozen Tundra]

HOW exactly does the TEAM need those media assholes? HOW are you claiming the team would suffer? I can see arguing that the fans need facts/real information, not fake news masquerading as facts, but even that is a big nothing for the team. The only thing really needed is the directly quoted words and finished actions of the coach and GM and maybe occasionally players. Beyond that, hell no.


You should tell the NFL that. They'll be grateful to learn that they no longer need to piss away hundreds of millions of dollars a year on publicity and media representation.

https://www.campaignlive.com/article/nfl-kicks-off-global-review-consolidate-its-400-million-media-account/1807853

[RashanGary]

It’s like awe shucks, reporter A lied and caused all sorts of problems for Player B. He’s just trying to get clicks. It’s really your fault for reading it. Don’t ever correct the lie or call him out because he just wanted money and there should be no consequences to his behavior if the reason he did it was wanting more money. The problem is you clicking on it, not him using a huge platform to spread lies.

[run pMc]

It’s like awe shucks, reporter A lied and caused all sorts of problems for Player B. He’s just trying to get clicks. It’s really your fault for reading it. Don’t ever correct the lie or call him out because he just wanted money and there should be no consequences to his behavior if the reason he did it was wanting more money. The problem is you clicking on it, not him using a huge platform to spread lies.

Responsible media institutions such as most newspapers like the NYT or JSO actually have a corrections section. Websites will indicate if they made a correction to the original story at the bottom. If you're consuming your news from questionable media sources, fan blogs, and rumor mills like X you are going to a back alley vs. a pharmacy.

And players do plenty to mislead reporters. Witness the Jaire "thanks for supporting me" tweets. It's the highest paid CB in the NFL posting something, it's going to get coverage.

I'll say it again, the majority of the factual news you consume is from media, directly or indirectly. Think about how you would learn anything about GB without radio, newpaper, or internet coverage for a moment. If you hate it and think it's harmful, don't consume it and just wander in the dark until the games are televised.

[texaspackerbacker]

It’s like awe shucks, reporter A lied and caused all sorts of problems for Player B. He’s just trying to get clicks. It’s really your fault for reading it. Don’t ever correct the lie or call him out because he just wanted money and there should be no consequences to his behavior if the reason he did it was wanting more money. The problem is you clicking on it, not him using a huge platform to spread lies.

Yeah, and I think a lot of times, it's intentional just to stir up trouble.

That "correction section" is generally a lot less visible and obvious as the original bullshit.

And those two examples run pMc gave hardly deserve to be called "responsible". They are just members of the fake news media.

[bobblehead]

Guter seems interested in adding a FA but running back does not seem like the right position for that.

You all miss a simple point. Gutes doesn't have to pay a RB 12 million a season. There are solid backs out there who won't get paid too much. Guys like Myles Sanders or Devin Singletary. Give them a good OL and opportunities and they can produce. We can sign one and draft one and bring one in undrafted and likely have 3 good RB to pair with Jones.

[bobblehead]

Um drugs are potentially fatal. A news story isn't.
Reminder: 95% of the information you get about the Packers is from a news source. The same could be said for draft information. If you think the JSO or SI or the Athletic are the equivalent of drug dealers, maybe you should quit reading.

They are fatal because someone ingested them, not because someone sold them. Potato Tomato.

All this media talk is walking to close to the sun though (politics) and someone is going to end up suspended if we don't drop it.

[bobblehead]

Sometimes you sure are thick.

If no one was buying drugs there wouldn't be drug dealers. I am not placing blame anywhere. It is simply a fact. No demand for a product, no one provides a product.

There are a lot of reputable sources of good information. Not all sources are garbage. Just because you click on garbage sources and stories doesn't mean most or all media is garbage.

I'm going to go ahead and call you out Dan, because this is a very common tactic of yours. You CLEARLY placed blame on the consumer and then immediately resorted to being a raging dick when someone pointed out the problem with it. I'm not even disagreeing with you that the consumer is the problem, but you can't make that post then call Tex thick for pointing out an equivalent by playing the victim and pretending innocent you NEVER placed blame. You can call tex thick for a LOT of other things, but in this case you are simply coming across as a jerk.



Sorry, got to completely disagree with this.

"Media" as you define it creates content because you click on it or subscribe to it. If you stop watching the "media" and clicking on their articles, maybe we could have "media" that actually reports what is happening in the game and in the clubhouse.

But that isn't going to happen because so many people like to watch a trainwreck happen, real or imaginary. The "media" is what it is because of the collective "us".

How is this NOT placing blame.

[bobblehead]

What nobody has mentioned yet is that this is all an interdependent system. Journalists need clicks - it’s the business model - and so they play to the lowest common denominator, because that gets the most clicks. An article breaking down the nuances of the PFF system versus an article suggesting Aaron Rodgers is throwing Guter under the bus - which one gets more play? Guess.

But if journalists DON’T cover a team, the team suffers. The team needs the media. All you people calling the media names? Uh, geez, look how many announcers - part of the media - are FORMER PLAYERS. The Packers will not do well if the media doesn’t cover them.

It’s a closed interdependent system. It’s not just the good guys and the bad guys.

What a level headed rational response. I'm done reading your posts. I prefer some bomb throwing.

[Frozen Tundra]

Guter seems interested in adding a FA but running back does not seem like the right position for that.

If the object is to groom a possible replacement for Jones in 25, then I hope he's not looking to depend on a free agent RB; that's an especially bad idea this year. It'd be very poor asset management, especially when we have so many draft picks. A replacement for Jones would be a pretty expensive free agent.

But if we're just going to replace Dillonthis season, there seem to be roughly 8 (certainly 5 or 6) backs in the draft who we could bring in now, and at the end of the season we assess the outlook for Jones and plan accordingly. Maybe at the end of the year, we find that the FA would replace Jones in our system, and we draft another RB to play the Dillon role.

[Frozen Tundra]

You all miss a simple point. Gutes doesn't have to pay a RB 12 million a season. There are solid backs out there who won't get paid too much. Guys like Myles Sanders or Devin Singletary. Give them a good OL and opportunities and they can produce. We can sign one and draft one and bring one in undrafted and likely have 3 good RB to pair with Jones.

In your scenario, is this running back replacing Dillon this season then? Because if that's your plan, this might be a good use of the free agent market. I don't think we can afford to replace Jones in free agency, but guys like you're talking about here would probably be upgrades over AJ and come in at the same general price point.

[sharpe1027]

I'm going to go ahead and call you out Dan, because this is a very common tactic of yours. You CLEARLY placed blame on the consumer and then immediately resorted to being a raging dick when someone pointed out the problem with it. I'm not even disagreeing with you that the consumer is the problem, but you can't make that post then call Tex thick for pointing out an equivalent by playing the victim and pretending innocent you NEVER placed blame. You can call tex thick for a LOT of other things, but in this case you are simply coming across as a jerk.




How is this NOT placing blame.

It's a factual statement. You must first apply your own opinion to reach an assumption something is wrong before there can be blame.

Not taking sides on the whole issue, but that's how understood his point.

That being said, the implication of blame was a very reasonable assumption to reach given the context.

[Joemailman]

What a level headed rational response. I'm done reading your posts. I prefer some bomb throwing.

Innocent people could get hurt because they probably won't be smart bombs.

[George Cumby]

What's the price of tea in China, these days?

[Fritz]

If the object is to groom a possible replacement for Jones in 25, then I hope he's not looking to depend on a free agent RB; that's an especially bad idea this year. It'd be very poor asset management, especially when we have so many draft picks. A replacement for Jones would be a pretty expensive free agent.

But if we're just going to replace Dillonthis season, there seem to be roughly 8 (certainly 5 or 6) backs in the draft who we could bring in now, and at the end of the season we assess the outlook for Jones and plan accordingly. Maybe at the end of the year, we find that the FA would replace Jones in our system, and we draft another RB to play the Dillon role.

If this were the case, wouldn't you just offer Dillon a contract to, well, be Dillon for one more year?

My own opinion is that they ought to draft a couple of RB's, and let them back up Jones. I know, the pass blocking won't be the best for the first part of the season, but if they're smart they'll figure that out by mid-season.

Any FA money is, to me, best spent on a safety or a linebacker to hold down the fort for a year while the rookies they're going to draft get up to speed. I think it's easier for a RB to learn to pass block in year one than for a safety or a linebacker to learn the defense in the first year; thus, for me, a FA, if you're going to do it, would be better to be a safety or a linebacker. Preferably a safety.

[Frozen Tundra]

If this were the case, wouldn't you just offer Dillon a contract to, well, be Dillon for one more year?

Hmm... there is a certain logic to that idea, isn't there? He seems to be rather good at it... :oops:

But I don't know if we could make that work in 25. We might be able to sign him to a one-year deal this year, but I doubt he'd take another one the following season, because at his age I think he'd insist on several years' worth of security in 25.

Not sure what your thinking is on that, or for that matter how you feel about letting Dillon walk already this spring. How that falls together would obviously have a huge impact on our approach to drafting running backs this year. I really don't know what to expect about what Dillon does this year, so my whole concept of how to stock the RB shelf this off-season is multifaceted and complicated.




My own opinion is that they ought to draft a couple of RB's, and let them back up Jones. I know, the pass blocking won't be the best for the first part of the season, but if they're smart they'll figure that out by mid-season.

That is exactly my favorite plan, too, but I was hesitant to stick my neck out. Been away from this board a long time, felt reluctant to kick the door down and barge through it shouting out brash opinions.

Plus, I'm just not sure how realistic it would be to expect Gute to do that anyway. My idea would be one of the top half-dozen on Day 2 (probably early; first 3rd Rounder or even the 2nd 2nd Rounder), and one of the 2nd tier backs on Day 3 (probably early, Rd 4 or early 5 if we have one), and then see what we have as the pre-season and season develop. I just don't know if Gutekunst is brilliant enough to understand the wisdom of my insights.

My concern is this.... this offense absolutely depends on a powerful running game in order to open up all the options MLF wants to have at his disposal. If we don't have that, we're leaving 30% or more of the playbook in the locker room, because we don't have the tools we need to put it on the field. Our running game is the key to the entire thing. I'm confident that even if we don't do a thing about running back we'll be OK this year as long as we sign Dillon and Jones stays healthy, but I'm not completely confident he will stay healthy.

He's a pounding, hard-running workhorse back who'll be 30 years old this season, and I worked out that in the last 10 years, he has been tackled approximately 1800 times (college and pros, pre-season and playoffs). There comes a point in the late 20s where the body just can't take the beating anymore, or recover sufficiently between Sundays. Most RBs begin to decline significantly at around age 28, and when it happens, it's a very steady process, and there's no fixing it. It's just over.

I did a breakdown of roughly the top 25 RBs in the NFL (I know, there isn't a precise way to define that, but I like my list), and of those 25, Derrick Henry is the only one older than Jones (by 11 months). That man is a freak. But the point is, Jones is playing with house money, and if the Packers are counting on him playing anywhere close to this level through 2025, they're foolish. He may - it's possible - but it would be foolish to expect it and plan around that expectation. Statistically, it's extremely unlikely, and the consequences of being wrong are grave when a powerhouse team is building for a Super Bowl run in every single other category.

If ever there would be a circumstance where it would be reasonable to overspend draft capital on a position, I think this would be an example. It's far wiser for a team in our position to go heavy on RB a year too early than having to do it a year too late, because even a single year too late could literally cost us a Super Bowl more than almost any other positional weakness. And as we all know, you don't really get too many chances. I see 2025 as the prime year for our first best Lombardi run, and I think we should be doing everything we can for the next year and a half to line up all of our pieces for that run.

I just dread the possibility of going into the 2025 offseason needing to replace not just one, but both of our top two backs without our offense missing a beat. I think it's critical that we make that our top priority starting this offseason.

But, maybe I'm full of shit. Wouldn't be the first time. But I think that even if I am overstating this, it's not by a lot. I may be over-emphasizing the point, but even if I am I still think it's a solid point. I know a lot of people will disagree with me here, but that's not the first time I've had that happen. I'd be curious to know your thoughts on that whole line of reasoning.





Any FA money is, to me, best spent on a safety or a linebacker to hold down the fort for a year while the rookies they're going to draft get up to speed. I think it's easier for a RB to learn to pass block in year one than for a safety or a linebacker to learn the defense in the first year; thus, for me, a FA, if you're going to do it, would be better to be a safety or a linebacker. Preferably a safety.

I'm right there. I want to come out of this draft with depth on the O-line, and not just bodies - linemen who can not only fill in for a couple-few weeks if needed, but push the starters at (honestly) every position. Make 'em all fight for their jobs. And especially interior linemen; I'd be thrilled if we can replace Myers at center.

But that's something I trust Gute to figure out on Day 3 and maybe even 3rd or 4th Round of Day Two. It's gotten to the point where I just take it for granted that he's going to add at least one and probably 2 quality OL to the roster; it's like he just sees a guy walking down the street and says, "look at the way that guy moves in space, I need to give him my card." I have a very strong feeling that they have some of the best OL scouts in the league on their staff, and that Luke Butkus is an O-line coach who is worth his weight in gold - and one of the handful of truly unsung heroes on our coaching staff.

So yeah, OL is a position of need at least for depth at the very least, but i trust Gutekunst and won't freak out if we go into Day 3 without having picked OL yet. He'll handle that.

But we do need to come away from this offeason with linebacker and safety help, and probably cornerback too. I think we can draft a couple of starters at those positions in the early to middle rounds, and will be disappointed if we haven't picked up at least a couple before Day 3. I'd like to see us go safety in the 1st if the right one is there; I'm hoping for DeJean Cooper. Ideally, I'd love to see safety in Rd 1 if the right player is there, and another safety and a linebacker in the 2nd and 3rd.

But, again - only if Gute feels the right value is there at those moments. I fully expect him to flip a couple-few of those early picks, trade back 8 or 10 spots to get a depth player he expects to be there in the 4th and still steal a bargain in the 2nd or 3rd. I completely expect that, because he looks at the board very differently than most other GMs, and I also trust him to make it work. And if we need to spend some free agent money on short term stopgaps at safety or even linebacker, I think that's the best place to spend our UFA dollars.

One thing I know for sure, he's going to do some things that we can not possibly predict. Not today, and not even 2 minutes before he does it. And I wouldn't have it any other way. It's his draft to run, and I trust him to know better than I do what needs to be done and how it needs to be done. I think he's earned that.

[bobblehead]

In your scenario, is this running back replacing Dillon this season then? Because if that's your plan, this might be a good use of the free agent market. I don't think we can afford to replace Jones in free agency, but guys like you're talking about here would probably be upgrades over AJ and come in at the same general price point.

Basically yes. And no, I don't EVER want to pay a RB FA like we paid Jones. Jones earned that money with the Packers as a person and as a player. The contract was partially for services already rendered.

[bobblehead]

It's a factual statement. You must first apply your own opinion to reach an assumption something is wrong before there can be blame.

Not taking sides on the whole issue, but that's how understood his point.

That being said, the implication of blame was a very reasonable assumption to reach given the context.

Somewhat fair. I was probably grumpy. I'm partly sorry Dan, but Tex didn't elevate to name calling, he made a valid point and I thought the instant name calling was beneath you. If tex did it in reverse I guess i would ignore it because its not beneath him.

[bobblehead]

If this were the case, wouldn't you just offer Dillon a contract to, well, be Dillon for one more year?

My own opinion is that they ought to draft a couple of RB's, and let them back up Jones. I know, the pass blocking won't be the best for the first part of the season, but if they're smart they'll figure that out by mid-season.

Any FA money is, to me, best spent on a safety or a linebacker to hold down the fort for a year while the rookies they're going to draft get up to speed. I think it's easier for a RB to learn to pass block in year one than for a safety or a linebacker to learn the defense in the first year; thus, for me, a FA, if you're going to do it, would be better to be a safety or a linebacker. Preferably a safety.

Dillon is an FA RB that in fact could be signed to replace Dillon. You just don't pay him much.

[run pMc]

My own opinion is that they ought to draft a couple of RB's, and let them back up Jones. I know, the pass blocking won't be the best for the first part of the season, but if they're smart they'll figure that out by mid-season.

Agree. I think they probably feel pretty good about their passing game, but if they can get the running game up to that level they will be supercharged.

They have at least some ideas of a starting 5 OL (swapping in Rhyan for JRJ) but the depth and competition could be improved, Dillon's vision and quickness aren't strengths but there were times last year where there was simply no place for him to run. Jones is nimble enough to make chicken salad from chicken shit blocking. They could use a future OT to groom and someone to push Rhyan for the RG spot at a minimum. I don't think Luke Tenuta or Royce Newman as your OL6 is a good situation (I've just assumed Bahktiari isn't back).

Getting younger and more dynamic at RB is a must. There aren't any RBs in the consensus top 50; I think there's decent depth and they could easily spend 3 draft Day 3 on RB and find one or two who can backup and eventually succeed Jones. RBs get beat to hell and you need several. Emanuel Wilson and AJ Dillon and Patrick Taylor are nice but you can and should look to get better. Bringing them back is just having more of the same but a year older, slower and more beat up (and more expensive).

[texaspackerbacker]

Somewhat fair. I was probably grumpy. I'm partly sorry Dan, but Tex didn't elevate to name calling, he made a valid point and I thought the instant name calling was beneath you. If tex did it in reverse I guess i would ignore it because its not beneath him.

Uh, thanks I guess hahahahaha. Did somebody namecall me? I didn't even notice.

I had to go way back to the previous page to see what you were talking about. It was RG who was his victim of one of the "usual suspects", although I did strongly agree with RG.

[ThunderDan]

Somewhat fair. I was probably grumpy. I'm partly sorry Dan, but Tex didn't elevate to name calling, he made a valid point and I thought the instant name calling was beneath you. If tex did it in reverse I guess i would ignore it because its not beneath him.

Wow, I post and then get busy and when I get back a shit storm has occurred.

I was name calling RashanGary not Tex.

I think I was really just stating a fact. I was trying not to make a moral equivalence between drug dealers and hack "media".

I also agree with Fritz that I was being simplistic in my opinion. Yes, people try to increase demand by advertising/marketing or in the case of scumbags making their product addictive.

[RashanGary]

I also agree with Fritz that I was being simplistic in my opinion. Yes, people try to increase demand by advertising/marketing or in the case of scumbags making their product addictive.


There are infinitely more ways advertising/marketing can be harmful and lacking in integrity than pushing an addictive and harmful product. It’s simply the one I chose to highlight because without a doubt, a large part of society agree that it’s immoral to harm people to get money. Laws against drug dealing and laws against cigarette companies misleading the public are examples of public agreement that marketing/advertising (when they cause harm) are socially unacceptable behaviors to the majority of our population.

Once we agree that not all marketing/advertising is respectable, we can now talk about the harms of “hack” journalism. And the stance I have on this diverges from what I see as the more common public view that “they’re just trying to get clicks and it’s not that bad,” so “just ignore them.”

Maybe if it was your daughter being harassed on social media and not Joe Barry’s, maybe if it was you getting fired from a general manager position and your family losing the security that job provided because an owner is pressured by public sentiment, maybe if you experienced things like this, you would have a different view of how media, with a large reach, can bring harm to people’s lives.

So where do we draw the line? Is a journalist responsible for knowing the public will take things too far? We’ve established that it’s not the public’s fault they smoke cigarette when advertising misleads them. The public is naturally going to trust. I argue the public is also naturally going to hate. And that hate causes harm (death threats, outrage that costs families security, etc)

So my argument is ethics do apply to shaping public opinion with the large reach sports media has. I argue that that a lot of journalism is disgusting in it’s disregard toward the people it’s affecting.

And what is a “Hack” journalist? Who are they? They work at ESPN, CBS, FOX, Milwaukee Journal Sentinal, and many other mainstream outlets.

Society doesn’t see this the way I do, and your response to my uncommon stance is that I’m “thick” or “dense” or whatever word you chose to use. Just remember that the late 1930s, early 1940’s German public would have said the same thing about me if I challenged the morals of their trusted fuhrer. Digging your heels in and getting stubborn about your view might say more about your thickness and density than it does about mine. Puff on that smoke for a moment, while you contemplate life and all its meaning.

[MadtownPacker]

It’s time for you to calm down RG. You ain’t the only person with problems. If I have to read through your loony rant post and find shit like the Germany bullshit you will get shutdown until next season maybe longer. Then you will have to use another account and pretend to be someone else normal until you can’t then I blast that account.

Stop your crazy bullshit. And if there are other post you already made with this shit you better edit them before I read them and I will read them and count as another violation.

[Fritz]

So how about Guter already checking out them linebackers at the senor bowl!

And what will our 260-lb Nigerian player exception/futures guy Kenneth whatever do for a position next year?? Could he be a middle linebacker? Too light to be a DE now?