NFL Offseason/Free Agency Thread

[Joemailman]

Jimmy Garoppolo suspended 2 games for PED use.



Adam Schefter
@AdamSchefter

Raiders QB Jimmy Garoppolo is being suspended two games for violating the NFL’s Performance Enhancing Substances Policy, league sources told ESPN.

The policy violation is related to him using a prescribed medication without having a valid Therapeutic Use Exemption, per sources.

This could be a big break for the Raiders who were probably going to cut him anyway.



Joel Corry
@corryjoel

Jimmy Garoppolo's suspension may be a gift to the Raiders. The default language in his contract specifically mentions a Performance Enhancing Substances policy violation as grounds for contract guarantees voiding. His fully GTD $11.25M 2024 base salary could become unsecured.

[Joemailman]

Adam Schefter
@AdamSchefter

Bears are releasing former Pro Bowl guard Cody Whitehair, per sources. After Whitehair spent the past eight seasons in Chicago, the Bears are giving him the chance to sign with another team before free agency begins in mid March.



Adam Schefter
@AdamSchefter

Bears also released veteran safety Eddie Jackson.

Bears reportedly have cleared 21.5 million in cap space with these moves.

[Frozen Tundra]

Jimmy Garoppolo suspended 2 games for PED use.



I guess he figured he needed every break he could get.

Must have been a random, it's hard to think of anything he did on the field that would have made anyone scratch their head and say, "hey, waaiiitaminute here... "

[bobblehead]

Bears reportedly have cleared 21.5 million in cap space with these moves.

gotta clear space for that big Fields extension.

[Fritz]

gotta clear space for that big Fields extension.

With all the picks they have now - that was a smart trade with Carolina last year - you'd think they should really be, well, loaded for bear. I personally don't think Fields is The Guy, so I am hoping they extend him with a big contract and do what the Bears do.

[texaspackerbacker]

Getting rid of a couple of probably still decent not too old players seems like a very Bear-like move, I wonder if the Packers would have any interest in Eddie Jackson. He's been a good player and is just 30 years old.

Fields doesn't have near as high a ceiling as Jordan Love, but I see him as a very decent QB, definitely in the top third of NFL QBs. The Bears are stupid if they use one of their high draft choices to replace him.

Bottom line, though, is that the Bears will continue to suck.

[bobblehead]

Getting rid of a couple of probably still decent not too old players seems like a very Bear-like move, I wonder if the Packers would have any interest in Eddie Jackson. He's been a good player and is just 30 years old.

Fields doesn't have near as high a ceiling as Jordan Love, but I see him as a very decent QB, definitely in the top third of NFL QBs. The Bears are stupid if they use one of their high draft choices to replace him.

Bottom line, though, is that the Bears will continue to suck.

Eddie Jackson is washed up to be honest. Someone will overpay him.

Fields ceiling is probably higher than Love, but his opportunity to reach it has passed him by. I guess if you factor brains in (and you have to) then Love always had a higher ceiling, but Fields is a physical freak with a monster arm.

I haven't seen anything to make me dispute your last point. They need new leadership.

[Teamcheez1]

Fields a top 1/3 QB? Don’t see it.

[texaspackerbacker]

Eddie Jackson still looked pretty decent the few times I saw the Bears this season. We might be better off at Safety with a proven veteran than with a hot shot college Safety who inexperienced.

Obviously, Fields is a great running QB with a strong arm, but his accuracy and as you said, his brain aren't close to what Love has shown. And Love isn't that far behind in mobility either.

[run pMc]

Eddie Jackson is close to washed up and not worth the money he'll be looking for to sign. GB is better off signing a 25-26 year old who still has a few years ahead of them and maybe a bit of upside. Jackson's best years are far behind him, and some scouts think he doesn't like to tackle anymore.

Justin Fields is top third in physical TALENT, but not in performance or 'quarterbacking'. It's actually not even worth debating -- in most metrics (advanced or otherwise) he's a bottom quartile starting QB. Watch how little they trust him with plays and what he does with them. He'll go 15/21 120 yards 1 TD and 2 INT. He takes a LOT of sacks, fumbles about every 8 times he runs, and makes very few 'wow' throws. If CHI keeps him it would be surprising. I'd be concerned about them trading the #1 pick to someone for a huge haul of picks and really building their roster quickly. They have a solid defense, but that offense is bad, starting with Fields and their OL.

I actually think a team like last year's Falcons could have done some damage with a guy like Fields because of their OL and running game, along with having Drake London and Kyle Pitts. Arthur Smith is a weirdo who would run some Ravens-lite (or Titans-ish) offense that might work for Fields to beat bad teams, but that's about the extent of it. He's mistake prone and smart teams will rattle him. I don't think he's capable of getting past the wild card round, much less winning a Super Bowl.

[Frozen Tundra]

He's mistake prone and smart teams will rattle him. I don't think he's capable of getting past the wild card round, much less winning a Super Bowl.

That's why for me, he's the absolute dream quarterback for the Chicagos. He can win enough games in the regular season to make the fans think he's a legitimate franchise quarterback (because jesus, how the the hell can they ever know the difference???), because he can maybe go 9-8 and make the wild card, but as soon as he runs into a legitimate playoff-level defense it's like washing mashed potatoes through the garbage disposal. He makes a slight, momentary "spplt" noise, and a half second later he doesn't even exist in this universe.

And because the vast majority of Bears fans are just Bears fans, with no firsthand experience with legitimate franchise quarterbacks, he can drag it out for 10 years or more before the fans ever start to understand that he's going to fail in the posteason every. Single. Year.

And they'll never. Ever. Comprehend how a guy who often looked pretty decent against the Jets or the Panthers in the regular season wasn't able to outgun top quarterbacks in the playoffs. Why it is that the "any given Sunday" thing just never seems to work in January.

[Fritz]

Eddie Jackson is close to washed up and not worth the money he'll be looking for to sign. GB is better off signing a 25-26 year old who still has a few years ahead of them and maybe a bit of upside. Jackson's best years are far behind him, and some scouts think he doesn't like to tackle anymore.

Justin Fields is top third in physical TALENT, but not in performance or 'quarterbacking'. It's actually not even worth debating -- in most metrics (advanced or otherwise) he's a bottom quartile starting QB. Watch how little they trust him with plays and what he does with them. He'll go 15/21 120 yards 1 TD and 2 INT. He takes a LOT of sacks, fumbles about every 8 times he runs, and makes very few 'wow' throws. If CHI keeps him it would be surprising. I'd be concerned about them trading the #1 pick to someone for a huge haul of picks and really building their roster quickly. They have a solid defense, but that offense is bad, starting with Fields and their OL.

I actually think a team like last year's Falcons could have done some damage with a guy like Fields because of their OL and running game, along with having Drake London and Kyle Pitts. Arthur Smith is a weirdo who would run some Ravens-lite (or Titans-ish) offense that might work for Fields to beat bad teams, but that's about the extent of it. He's mistake prone and smart teams will rattle him. I don't think he's capable of getting past the wild card round, much less winning a Super Bowl.

He sure looked like a weirdo to me, but what causes you to say he's a weirdo? What do you know that I don't know - or is it just that he sure doesn't look like an NFL coach?

[sharpe1027]

Fields a top 1/3 QB? Don’t see it.

You just need the right context. Top 1/3 of Bears all time QBs.

[run pMc]

He sure looked like a weirdo to me, but what causes you to say he's a weirdo? What do you know that I don't know - or is it just that he sure doesn't look like an NFL coach?

He's a smart offensive mind that might have leaned a little too far into the run game. He has guys like London and Pitts and acts like he doesn't know how to use them. He was handcuffed a bit by the QBs he had, but they would also do some weird things on game day.
I think he's a case of being a very good OC who wasn't quite good enough at a new role of HC to stick.

Jordan Love cracked 4000 yards. No CHI QB has ever done that. Justin Fields hasn't ever cracked 3000 yards (or 20 passing TDs) in 3 seasons, during which he's won 10 out of 38 games. I think he's got talent but I'd be worried if he was your starter. He's had a chance to show something, he's NOT Michael Vick. How long before the hits and sacks start affecting his health?

[texaspackerbacker]

I'm not gonna waste too much effort discussing or defending the Bears QB, but I have a high opinion of Fields, and I think the Bears would be stupid to move on from him - but then stupid is often what the Bears are. I also thought Trubisky was better than a lot of others thought. Both he and Fields and Cutler before that maybe were just victims of the rampant suckage that characterizes the Bears in general, has for decades, and probably still will even with a plethora of high draft picks.

[run pMc]

I think they are in a bad situation: if the keep Fields, they will have to sign him to a sizable extension, and they'll still have a subpar QB at the helm of a team with growing talent. That likely gets Eberflus canned.
If they dump Fields and draft say, Caleb Williams, they get a first year QB out there who will likely make a lot of mistakes and probably get Eberflus canned, meaning they bring in a new coach and system for a young QB.

Either way it's a bit of a mess. Ideally you want to line up a new young QB with a coach who has some job stability.

[texaspackerbacker]

hahahahaha Maybe Eberflus deserves to get canned. Is Fields really "subpar"? If "-par" means being the best or say top 2 or 3 QBs in the league, yeah, I guess he is "subpar". On the other hand, if "subpar" means less than as somebody mentioned, top 1/3, hell no. There certainly aren't 10 or 11 better QBs than Fields, at least not IMO.

And Caleb Williams is a bust on the way to happening - also IMO. That would be even more likely with the Bears. Drafting him with one of those high first round picks would be a very Bear-like move.

[Joemailman]

hahahahaha Maybe Eberflus deserves to get canned. Is Fields really "subpar"? If "-par" means being the best or say top 2 or 3 QBs in the league, yeah, I guess he is "subpar". On the other hand, if "subpar" means less than as somebody mentioned, top 1/3, hell no. There certainly aren't 10 or 11 better QBs than Fields, at least not IMO.

And Caleb Williams is a bust on the way to happening - also IMO. That would be even more likely with the Bears. Drafting him with one of those high first round picks would be a very Bear-like move.

Justin Fields was:

22nd in passing yards
20th in TD passes
23rd in INT%
22nd in passer rating
24th in QBR
29th in completion pct.
21st in yards per attempt

At least he was pretty consistent.

[run pMc]

Justin Fields was:

22nd in passing yards
20th in TD passes
23rd in INT%
22nd in passer rating
24th in QBR
29th in completion pct.
21st in yards per attempt

At least he was pretty consistent.

LOL so you're saying he's closer to Sam Howell and Gardner Minshew in terms of being a QB than Lamar Jackson? SHOCKING. I'm sure Tex will come up with some objective proof that Fields is a top 12 QB. (Like fumbles)

[Frozen Tundra]

Justin Fields was:

22nd in passing yards
20th in TD passes
23rd in INT%
22nd in passer rating
24th in QBR
29th in completion pct.
21st in yards per attempt


Pfft. People can twist statistics around to mean aything they want. Ask any Bears fan, and he'll explain that every single one of those numbers is just an outlier, an abberation.

[sharpe1027]

Pfft. People can twist statistics around to mean aything they want. Ask any Bears fan, and he'll explain that every single one of those numbers is just an outlier, an abberation.

I bet Fields could throw a football over that mountain.

[texaspackerbacker]

All I will say is that the whole Bears team is a steaming pile of crap. Caleb Williams or whoever you might want to name would undoubtedly be worse performance-wise. When you don't have much else, it helps to have a QB who can gain yards running. As somebody rooting for their opponents, I'm more scared of somebody who can run like that.

Since you lame-assed truth squaders like to dig up "facts", who exactly do you see as better than Fields? Mahomes, Jackson, Love, Allen, Prescott, Herbert, probably Hurts, maybe Stroud and Lawrence and Murray. That's all I see. NOT Goff, Stafford, Tagvailoa, Cousins, or Mayfield, all of which the website stupidly lists above Love (12), NOT Flacco, Burrow, or Richardson all listed above Fields who is listed 20th.
I got this off a website listing 66 QBs who have started since the beginning of the '23 season (hard to believe there were so many). https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-qb-index-ranking-all-66-starting-quarterbacks-from-the-2023-nfl-season

I didn't go far enough down the list to find another better than Fields - some guy who started one game before getting hurt a couple plays in. Stats be damned - use your brains.

[sharpe1027]

All I will say is that the whole Bears team is a steaming pile of crap. Caleb Williams or whoever you might want to name would undoubtedly be worse performance-wise. When you don't have much else, it helps to have a QB who can gain yards running. As somebody rooting for their opponents, I'm more scared of somebody who can run like that.

Since you lame-assed truth squaders like to dig up "facts", who exactly do you see as better than Fields? Mahomes, Jackson, Love, Allen, Prescott, Herbert, probably Hurts, maybe Stroud and Lawrence and Murray. That's all I see. NOT Goff, Stafford, Tagvailoa, Cousins, or Mayfield, all of which the website stupidly lists above Love (12), NOT Flacco, Burrow, or Richardson all listed above Fields who is listed 20th.
I got this off a website listing 66 QBs who have started since the beginning of the '23 season (hard to believe there were so many). https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-qb-index-ranking-all-66-starting-quarterbacks-from-the-2023-nfl-season

I didn't go far enough down the list to find another better than Fields - some guy who started one game before getting hurt a couple plays in. Stats be damned - use your brains.

I disagree, but don't see the value in discussing further with you.

[run pMc]

I like facts. They prove things like Jaire is not 6 feet tall, or that Justin Fields is not a winning NFL QB (much less a top 10 QB). It would be nice to ignore facts and just declare the Packers SB Champs every year though.

Anyway, do we think Gute brings back anyone in the secondary? In order of most to least likely I'd guess Keisean, Ford, Ballantine, Savage, Owens.

[texaspackerbacker]

The problem with facts is mostly it's just "facts".

I've mentioned Wingfield as somebody nice to get, but I doubt it happens. I am a little afraid that Jaire is no longer a shut down Corner, and Stokes is unlikely to be also. If by bring in, you mean draft, yeah, it's almost certain we draft a Safety no later than the 4th round, probably earlier. And I expect a Corner to be taken too, maybe early, but more likely 4th to 6th.

Of the '23 Packers who are FAs that you mentioned, I'd like to see all of them back plus Anthony Johnson (#36). Savage may be the most likely gone since they missed some kind of a deadline yesterday regarding void years. Other than that, I pretty much agree with your order except I'd move Owens ahead of Ballentine and Savage.

[run pMc]

Would Winfield be a nice get? Sure! Problem is, he's not coming to GB. Well, it's about 2% likely to happen.
He's far more likely to stay with TB and its beaches and lack of income tax, else he'll get a fat paycheck from a team looking for a safety with cap space like DET. Hell, CHI has gobs of cap space to overpay him with.

I'm betting they draft 1-2 safeties and sign someone like Jordan Fuller and/or Rudy Ford to be the vets. Even Rudy Ford is doubtful, dude is 29 and Gute will want to get younger at safety. Besides, at one point they essentially benched Ford for Owens and that... didn't do much.
Savage is a great athlete who doesn't tackle or cover all that well, Owens is a slower version of Ford; I wish them well but there's no reason to bring them back.

Ballantine would be my choice for depth as an end of bench/ST guy, but that's it. He'd be a cheap guy who's a half-step above a Practice Squadder.

The "fact" that Nixon, Savage and Njiman had void money hit the cap does not make their odds of resigning with the team very good. It does NOT eliminate them, but after what we saw in 2023 I doubt they are back.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/3-voided-contracts-add-almost-10m-in-dead-money-to-packers-2024-salary-cap/ar-BB1iy3Nq

All these guys are meh, and now they are older. You know what you have and it's not great, no point bringing that back regardless of scheme.

The depth at corner isn't great because you don't have Rasul anymore, plus Jaire/Stokes injuries are a concern. If Nixon's not back, your room looks pretty empty.

[bobblehead]

hahahahaha Maybe Eberflus deserves to get canned. Is Fields really "subpar"? If "-par" means being the best or say top 2 or 3 QBs in the league, yeah, I guess he is "subpar". On the other hand, if "subpar" means less than as somebody mentioned, top 1/3, hell no. There certainly aren't 10 or 11 better QBs than Fields, at least not IMO.

And Caleb Williams is a bust on the way to happening - also IMO. That would be even more likely with the Bears. Drafting him with one of those high first round picks would be a very Bear-like move.

Now I really hope the Bears don't draft Caleb. Based on your track record he is now officially 90% to make the HoF.

[bobblehead]

I bet Fields could throw a football over that mountain.

Hey Fields....you ever par the back nine with nothing but a 7 iron?

[bobblehead]

Would Winfield be a nice get? Sure! Problem is, he's not coming to GB. Well, it's about 2% likely to happen.
He's far more likely to stay with TB and its beaches and lack of income tax, else he'll get a fat paycheck from a team looking for a safety with cap space like DET. Hell, CHI has gobs of cap space to overpay him with.

I'm betting they draft 1-2 safeties and sign someone like Jordan Fuller and/or Rudy Ford to be the vets. Even Rudy Ford is doubtful, dude is 29 and Gute will want to get younger at safety. Besides, at one point they essentially benched Ford for Owens and that... didn't do much.
Savage is a great athlete who doesn't tackle or cover all that well, Owens is a slower version of Ford; I wish them well but there's no reason to bring them back.

Ballantine would be my choice for depth as an end of bench/ST guy, but that's it. He'd be a cheap guy who's a half-step above a Practice Squadder.

The "fact" that Nixon, Savage and Njiman had void money hit the cap does not make their odds of resigning with the team very good. It does NOT eliminate them, but after what we saw in 2023 I doubt they are back.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/3-voided-contracts-add-almost-10m-in-dead-money-to-packers-2024-salary-cap/ar-BB1iy3Nq

All these guys are meh, and now they are older. You know what you have and it's not great, no point bringing that back regardless of scheme.

The depth at corner isn't great because you don't have Rasul anymore, plus Jaire/Stokes injuries are a concern. If Nixon's not back, your room looks pretty empty.

Good post. My summary....there is no reason not to try to upgrade everyone of those spots on the roster with someone younger and cheaper. The only chance of re signing any of them is if we whiff finding a younger cheaper player AND they are available for vet minimum contracts.

[texaspackerbacker]

Would Winfield be a nice get? Sure! Problem is, he's not coming to GB. Well, it's about 2% likely to happen.
He's far more likely to stay with TB and its beaches and lack of income tax, else he'll get a fat paycheck from a team looking for a safety with cap space like DET. Hell, CHI has gobs of cap space to overpay him with.

I'm betting they draft 1-2 safeties and sign someone like Jordan Fuller and/or Rudy Ford to be the vets. Even Rudy Ford is doubtful, dude is 29 and Gute will want to get younger at safety. Besides, at one point they essentially benched Ford for Owens and that... didn't do much.
Savage is a great athlete who doesn't tackle or cover all that well, Owens is a slower version of Ford; I wish them well but there's no reason to bring them back.

Ballantine would be my choice for depth as an end of bench/ST guy, but that's it. He'd be a cheap guy who's a half-step above a Practice Squadder.

The "fact" that Nixon, Savage and Njiman had void money hit the cap does not make their odds of resigning with the team very good. It does NOT eliminate them, but after what we saw in 2023 I doubt they are back.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/3-voided-contracts-add-almost-10m-in-dead-money-to-packers-2024-salary-cap/ar-BB1iy3Nq

All these guys are meh, and now they are older. You know what you have and it's not great, no point bringing that back regardless of scheme.

The depth at corner isn't great because you don't have Rasul anymore, plus Jaire/Stokes injuries are a concern. If Nixon's not back, your room looks pretty empty.

You didn't mention Valentine who (to my knowledge) is on the active roster, not a FA, and who did a damn good job as a starting Corner - arguably as good or better than Jaire last season. With him, Jaire, Stokes, and probably Nixon, we aren't too bad off. Just the same, I'm fairly sure we draft somebody, maybe even in the first round.

I'm also pretty sure Ford went out of the lineup due to injury. Ford ran a 4.34 40, although it was a long time ago. He's a different body type than Owens who is the kind of big Safety I tend to prefer. Both Owens and Ford did damn good last year IMO, #36 Johnson too. It seems like you're one of those "grass is greener somewhere else" kind of guys hahahaha. A LOT of teams with better coaching do well with personnel no better than the Packer DBs. Probably we draft a Safety too, though, not very early IMO.

[run pMc]

If they bring back Nixon and you can bank on better health (and performance) from Jaire and Stokes, then I agree CB isn't a big need. I'm not sure how good Nixon is as a man corner in the slot...his agility is poor by NFL CB standards. Valentine is a steal for a R7 guy. I think they need to get better at slot corner, and hope for good health. Hope's not a great strategy, and corners get hurt a lot since they are always running around on the field... and the adage about never having too many good ones is true. I wouldn't spend a high round pick on one unless that's where the BPA is, but I could certainly see them take one in the middle rounds.

The safeties were seen league wide by scouts and evaluators as...not good. You absolutely have to improve on that. Even if I like any of the players from last year, there is plenty of room to improve and upgrade. NFL roster building is different in that you can't just stand pat or be content with your guys - you're either getting younger and better, or older and worse. Ford was hurt, but he was also inconsistent and was briefly benched early in the season. Inconsistent actually describes most of the safeties. Owens is ok depth and had a few good games, but he's not good in coverage and got embarrassed tackling more than he should. Johnson Jr., screwed up on the Kittle TD, by that point of the season he should know where to be on the field. Maybe that's coaching, but he's also in his 2nd year of playing safety, I don't know what you can expect from him.

It's not about "grass is greener" elsewhere, it's that the grass in the back end of the defense had a lot of brown spots, and you have to add water and nutrients (by way of draft/FA) to revitalize it.

If a player enters FA and they were 'just ok' or 'not good', why bring them back unless you HAVE to? You've likely already had enough time with them to gauge the extent of their upside and limitations. If there's someone better or more promising out there you have to take a look. Loyalty is a great quality, but not with roster-building -- GMs have to be ruthless or they end up with old injured Randall Cobbs eating up their cap space and costing them their job.

[texaspackerbacker]

It's not just loyalty. What I saw from our Safetys this past season was better than I've seen in a lot of past years. You shouldn't get rid of somebody unless you can replace them with as good or better. Safety, as I said, i one of those positions where college success doesn't always translate to NFL success. The other thing is that unlike Corner where a lot of athleticism is required, Safety is more about being instinctive. You can always point to failures. Generally, though, there weren't that many with the guys some of ya'all want to get rid of. The other other thing is that scheme and coaching has more to do with success in the secondary than anything else. Our new DC has a background as a DB position coach. We really ought to get some better performance all the way around with his people.

As I also said, we won a helluva lot of games even with Barry dragging things down. It's not gonna take too much improvement to win even more.

[Frozen Tundra]

The other other thing is that scheme and coaching has more to do with success in the secondary than anything else. Our new DC has a background as a DB position coach. We really ought to get some better performance all the way around with his people.


I think you and I are in the minority, but I completely agree with you here. I'm not sure why so many people don't seem to think this is going to be a factor.

I'm getting more and more excited about Hafley, because I've been reading a lot about his background and basic defensive philosophy the last few weeks, and one thing that just jumps up off of every page is that his ideas about what's supposed to be happening in the defensive backfield could not possibly be more opposite than what we've seen the Packers doing over the past several years. This guy is all about extreme agression and every defensive player taking the fight to the offense on every play from the instant the ball is snapped, and especially the safeties and CBs. And he expects linebackers to fight the receivers, too.

Our defensive backs in 2024 aren't going to be hanging 8-12 yards off the LOS waiting for the receivers to just set up and do whatever they feel like doing. They're going to be on the line, interfering with the route right from the first step and punching the WR on his first stride, jamming him and steering him away from his route and messing up the timing and limiting the options on his route tree. Break up the route within the first 2 or 3 strides; not just wait for the guy to catch the ball and then try to limit the YAC - spoil the designed play and force the quarterback to throw balls he doesn't want to throw, and then contesting every catch. None of what he expects his DBs to do looks anything like what we've had to watch the last few years.

Every one of the DBs on our roster will be expcted to do things we haven't really seen them do before, so we really don't have a very good idea how well they're going to play in their new roles. So we don't have a clear idea of what they'll be capable of in 2024. I really believe that we're going to learn that some of our DBs are a lot more capable than we thought they were.

[run pMc]

I think a DC with a DB background can absolutely help the secondary, and maybe even elevate average players to occasionally good or above average. I don't think Owens et al. are average players. Moreover, I think that while Barry's scheme protected the safeties to an extent and made the CBs look bad by having them so far off, I think Hafley's scheme will do more to elevate the CB's at the expense of the safeties by having the CBs play closer to LOS, press, play man, etc. more -- which is what Jaire, Stokes, and Valentine are good at. If you only have one safety deep they better have range, instincts, and be able to tackle. Savage had one of those abilities, Ford has maybe two of them, Owens I'm not sure has any... you get the idea. Maybe you play them down as the box safety, but none of them were reliable tacklers last year, and box safeties are easier to find. If you don't have a deep safety who with range to the sideline and ability to reliably get a guy onn the ground, you're exposed.

I think Ford, Owens, Savage might be fine depth, but I wouldn't want them starting for 17+ games. I don't think they will perform well in the new scheme.

[texaspackerbacker]

Do you really think Jaire can still play press man coverage and not get beat most of the time? It sure didn't look that way last year, but looking at it optimistically, maybe it was just the injuries. Valentine did damn good, but I question whether press man is what he's best at. And Stokes? Who knows. You're right, if we play single high safety, the guy better be fast and instinctive. I kinda dread the thought of going to that kind of scheme. I have to agree, Owens isn't fast enough to be that single high guy. I also don't like the thought of putting some rookie back there, even whoever might be available in the first round. If Halfley is dead set on that kind of D, he better be some kind of a magician. I say again, we have had the best defensive success both against the run and the pass playing shell coverage with two or even three safetys deep. I wish they'd do that a lot more.

[Joemailman]

Ian Rapoport
@RapSheet

Source: The #Bengals informed star WR Tee Higgins that they are franchising him.

[ThunderDan]

Ian Rapoport
@RapSheet

Source: The #Bengals informed star WR Tee Higgins that they are franchising him.

Not a shock. They aren't going to sign Higgins to a long-term contract before the get Ja'Marr Chase a contract and they can't do that until next year.

It will be interesting to see if Higgins signs the tag.

[Fritz]

What if he don't? Then what happens?

[Frozen Tundra]

What if he don't? Then what happens?

It's a free country, so they can always refuse. But once their team slaps an exclusive tag on them, they're locked into that team. They can not negotiate with any other club, because their team owns their rights.

If they refuse, they have until July 15 to try to negotiate a better deal with their club. If they're unable to do that, then their next move is to refuse to report to training camp when it begins the following week. At this point, the team can begin to fine them for not reporting. The collective bargaining agreement sets the limits of the fines, but they are progressive and quickly escalate to $50K/day. Every day they sit out. In the past, teams could waive the fines once an agreement was reached, but I'm not sure if that's still the case. Someone else here is bound to know.

If it's an exclusive tag, the original team is the only club who has the right to negotiate with the player. If it's a non exclusive tag, another team can give the player an offer sheet which the first team has the right to match, but there's a risk to that. If the original team refuses to match it, the second team is obligated to sign the player, but they surrender 2 1st round draft choices for the player's rights. That's only happened a couple of times, because it's a hell of a risk. Which is the whole reason it's written in that way.

Also, at any point here, the team can trade the rights to the player who is sitting out. Doesn't happen often, but sometimes they decide they're just not going to meet in the middle no matter what and it's better to get the player off their books now and free up the cap space, because once that tag is applied the offered salary counts against the cap.

The player can hold out as long as Week 10 of the season, but once he hits Week 10 without signing a contract (either with his original team, or a team to which hsi rights may hav ebeen traded), he's done for the year. He's forfeited his rights to negotiate any contract with any team for the rest of the league year. I believe that last happened a few years ago with a Pittsburgh RB who was pissed because he was tagged 2 years in a row and felt that his window for making one last big payday was closig fast.

[bobblehead]

It's a free country, so they can always refuse. But once their team slaps an exclusive tag on them, they're locked into that team. They can not negotiate with any other club, because their team owns their rights.

If they refuse, they have until July 15 to try to negotiate a better deal with their club. If they're unable to do that, then their next move is to refuse to report to training camp when it begins the following week. At this point, the team can begin to fine them for not reporting. The collective bargaining agreement sets the limits of the fines, but they are progressive and quickly escalate to $50K/day. Every day they sit out. In the past, teams could waive the fines once an agreement was reached, but I'm not sure if that's still the case. Someone else here is bound to know.

If it's an exclusive tag, the original team is the only club who has the right to negotiate with the player. If it's a non exclusive tag, another team can give the player an offer sheet which the first team has the right to match, but there's a risk to that. If the original team refuses to match it, the second team is obligated to sign the player, but they surrender 2 1st round draft choices for the player's rights. That's only happened a couple of times, because it's a hell of a risk. Which is the whole reason it's written in that way.

Also, at any point here, the team can trade the rights to the player who is sitting out. Doesn't happen often, but sometimes they decide they're just not going to meet in the middle no matter what and it's better to get the player off their books now and free up the cap space, because once that tag is applied the offered salary counts against the cap.

The player can hold out as long as Week 10 of the season, but once he hits Week 10 without signing a contract (either with his original team, or a team to which hsi rights may hav ebeen traded), he's done for the year. He's forfeited his rights to negotiate any contract with any team for the rest of the league year. I believe that last happened a few years ago with a Pittsburgh RB who was pissed because he was tagged 2 years in a row and felt that his window for making one last big payday was closig fast.

I don't think they can fine him while tagged and not signed. Pretty sure the player doesn't lose a dime until he loses game checks.

The other thing you may have not explained quite right is that they lose the league year if they don't sign by week 10. i.e. the team can tag that player again next year for the exact same thing. In Pitt, whats his name reported and signed in week 10 because that gave him credit for signing and the league year. If they had tagged him a second time the amount was obscene. If he didn't report they tag him as if he had never been tagged a first time.

[Frozen Tundra]

I don't think they can fine him while tagged and not signed. Pretty sure the player doesn't lose a dime until he loses game checks.

The other thing you may have not explained quite right is that they lose the league year if they don't sign by week 10. i.e. the team can tag that player again next year for the exact same thing. In Pitt, whats his name reported and signed in week 10 because that gave him credit for signing and the league year. If they had tagged him a second time the amount was obscene. If he didn't report they tag him as if he had never been tagged a first time.

Thanks, I knew I had a couple of things either only half-right or left out completely. Not to make excuses, but they really did make this one complicated as hell.

I knew somebody else would know and set it straight. Appreciated!

[Joemailman]

Jeremy Fowler
@JFowlerESPN

Source: #Chiefs are releasing wide receiver Marquez Valdes-Scantling.

Saves Kansas City $12 million on the cap.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Jeremy Fowler
@JFowlerESPN

Source: #Chiefs are releasing wide receiver Marquez Valdes-Scantling.

Saves Kansas City $12 million on the cap.

2 years, 20+ million frogskins in the bank. 2 rings. Not bad for a former 5th rounder from some no name swamp college in Florida.

Apparently, after the latest Roman numerals game, the dammed media asked MVS to explain why P-Ma is way better a rock thrower than Butte. MVS refused to bite. Said he has fond memories of pimping with Butte. This guy is gonna be a Jester, soon, no doubt.

[run pMc]

Mecole Hardman certainly bit when asked about KC vs. NYJ. Basically made it sound like the offensive staff was a clown car and said certain players got preferential treatment. Shocking, I know.

[Joemailman]

There are reports that Bears and Falcons have agreed to a trade for Justin Fields. If true, any trade wouldn't become official until March 13.

[Fritz]

Damn. I was hoping da Bears would pin their hopes and their salary cap on Fields. Now I can only hope they pick a QB overall #1 who turns out to be the next Ryan Leaf, and Fields goes on to a solid career in Atlanta.

In my estimation, MVS will be lucky to land a minimum-wage deal somewhere. He drops more balls than an unpaid hooker.

[Joemailman]

Damn. I was hoping da Bears would pin their hopes and their salary cap on Fields. Now I can only hope they pick a QB overall #1 who turns out to be the next Ryan Leaf, and Fields goes on to a solid career in Atlanta.

In my estimation, MVS will be lucky to land a minimum-wage deal somewhere. He drops more balls than an unpaid hooker.

MVS will do better than minimum. He has speed few have to stretch the field. Packers missed him very much in the 2021 playoff game vs. 49ers. And he has a knack for coming through in big games. And he's never had more than 7 drops in a season. He had 3 last year.

[Fritz]

Since I have no statistics or evidence to back up my position - just my feelings - then I must revert to this:

Ah, fuck that guy.

[Joemailman]

Since I have no statistics or evidence to back up my position - just my feelings - then I must revert to this:

Ah, fuck that guy.

My guess is the drops probably seem more numerous than they really are because when MVS does drop one, it usually would have been a big play. Most of his routes are run well downfield. Also, MVS was never very good at coming down with 50/50 balls, which some might regard as drops.

[sharpe1027]

MVS will do better than minimum. He has speed few have to stretch the field. Packers missed him very much in the 2021 playoff game vs. 49ers. And he has a knack for coming through in big games. And he's never had more than 7 drops in a season. He had 3 last year.

3 on 21 receptions...

[Joemailman]

Jason B. Hirschhorn
@by_JBH

The Broncos have announced that they will release quarterback Russell Wilson at the start of the new league year.

Andrew Brandt
@AndrewBrandt

Broncos officially releasing Russell Wilson.
They were as all-in on him, between trade assets given up and contract, as any team was all-in on any player.
Now they're all-out.
$39M left over in cash.
$85M left over in Cap.
Will go down as one of worst contracts in NFL history.

[run pMc]

Jason B. Hirschhorn
@by_JBH

The Broncos have announced that they will release quarterback Russell Wilson at the start of the new league year.

Andrew Brandt
@AndrewBrandt

Broncos officially releasing Russell Wilson.
They were as all-in on him, between trade assets given up and contract, as any team was all-in on any player.
Now they're all-out.
$39M left over in cash.
$85M left over in Cap.
Will go down as one of worst contracts in NFL history.

Yeah, moving on from Wilson was being telegraphed a few weeks back, but the numbers are pretty staggering.
I'd counter by saying the Bakhtiari contract is one of the worst in history as well. No fault of Bakhtiari, the guy wants to play, but 13 games in 3 seasons since signing a $92M contract is pretty bad.

Back to Russell - some QB needy team will kick the tires on him, but I think his superstar days are long past. Denver's holding a big bag of excrement on their cap. Seahawks looking smart there.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Clueless fans who think they’re smarter than a burger flipper with a worthless bachelor’s in accounting, as well as having passed the fucking Wisconsin CPAs, see $85M in “dead money” and they think, cap hell!

There ain’t any fuck as a cap hell anymore. Asses of Denver (not to be confused with the Asses of Indianapolis), don’t owe Wilson 85M. They’re gonna spread the hit over two years. Wilson’s cap hit this year will be 35.4M, minus chump change from another team - the 35.4M figure would be exactly the same figure if Wilson was still an Ass. 49.6M next year when the cap’s gonna inflate even more. Cap hell, my ass!

[Fritz]

Clueless fans who think they’re smarter than a burger flipper with a worthless bachelor’s in accounting, as well as having passed the fucking Wisconsin CPAs, see $85M in “dead money” and they think, cap hell!

There ain’t any fuck as a cap hell anymore. Asses of Denver (not to be confused with the Asses of Indianapolis), don’t owe Wilson 85M. They’re gonna spread the hit over two years. Wilson’s cap hit this year will be 35.4M, minus chump change from another team - the 35.4M figure would be exactly the same figure if Wilson was still an Ass. 49.6M next year when the cap’s gonna inflate even more. Cap hell, my ass!

Your posts indicate the type of guy who's up to his neck in credit card debt, but because the minimum payment is "only" $350 a month, thinks it's just fine because he can probably come up with $350 each month, so it's not so bad.

[SudsMcBucky]

Your posts indicate the type of guy who's up to his neck in credit card debt, but because the minimum payment is "only" $350 a month, thinks it's just fine because he can probably come up with $350 each month, so it's not so bad.

Bingo!

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Your posts indicate the type of guy who's up to his neck in credit card debt, but because the minimum payment is "only" $350 a month, thinks it's just fine because he can probably come up with $350 each month, so it's not so bad.

Terrible analogy. Unlike credit card instruments, “dead money” does not incur interest and it is neither a debt nor a cash flow. Dead money is merely an accounting item that denotes the premature termination of a contract with respect to the guaranteed portion of said contract.

Absence of contract restructuring, Wilson’s cap hits for the next two seasons, assuming he remained an Ass, would have been 35.4M and 55.4M, respectively. The Asses will actually receive cap relief next season for cutting Wilson this year. Not to mention, the recent termination allows the Waltons, owners of the Asses, to save money (and live better) - Wilson is owe 30-something frogskins this year, but the Waltons save $37M next year!

[Fritz]

Terrible analogy. Unlike credit card instruments, “dead money” does not incur interest and it is neither a debt nor a cash flow. Dead money is merely an accounting item that denotes the premature termination of a contract with respect to the guaranteed portion of said contract.

Absence of contract restructuring, Wilson’s cap hits for the next two seasons, assuming he remained an Ass, would have been 35.4M and 55.4M, respectively. The Asses will actually receive cap relief next season for cutting Wilson this year. Not to mention, the recent termination allows the Waltons, owners of the Asses, to save money (and live better) - Wilson is owe 30-something frogskins this year, but the Waltons save $37M next year!

Thank you for confirming my post.

[SudsMcBucky]

Terrible analogy. Unlike credit card instruments, “dead money” does not incur interest and it is neither a debt nor a cash flow. Dead money is merely an accounting item that denotes the premature termination of a contract with respect to the guaranteed portion of said contract.

Absence of contract restructuring, Wilson’s cap hits for the next two seasons, assuming he remained an Ass, would have been 35.4M and 55.4M, respectively. The Asses will actually receive cap relief next season for cutting Wilson this year. Not to mention, the recent termination allows the Waltons, owners of the Asses, to save money (and live better) - Wilson is owe 30-something frogskins this year, but the Waltons save $37M next year!

And this is a terrible understanding, too. Yes, the Waltons will save $37M in not having to pay next year's salaray, but that does NOT mean prior payments in bonuses and this year's $39M "frogskins" doesn't impact their overall salary cap availability. It most DEFINITELY impacts what other free agent transactions they will be able to do.

[NewsBruin]

Which players received the franchise tag?
Tee Higgins, Cincinnati Bengals WR
L'Jarius Sneed, Kansas City Chiefs CB
Brian Burns, Carolina Panthers EDGE
Justin Madubuike, Baltimore Ravens DT
Antoine Winfield, Tampa Bay Buccaneers S
Josh Allen, Jacksonville Jaguars EDGE
Jaylon Johnson, Chicago Bears CB
Michael Pittman, Indianapolis Colts WR

Which players received the transition tag?
Kyle Dugger, New England Patriots S

[Anti-Polar Bear]

And this is a terrible understanding, too. Yes, the Waltons will save $37M in not having to pay next year's salaray, but that does NOT mean prior payments in bonuses and this year's $39M "frogskins" doesn't impact their overall salary cap availability. It most DEFINITELY impacts what other free agent transactions they will be able to do.

Have you passed the CPAs? If not, then - check out this awesome analogy - you’re basically telling a brain surgeon that she ain’t know shit about brain surgery. Leave the cap to experts such as myself. ;)

Sure, there are opportunity costs. But Wilson’s cap hit is 35.4M this year whether or not he’s on the team. It ain’t that difficult to cook the cap if the Asses need that 35.4 so baldy to sign, say, Mike Evens.

[NewsBruin]

Evans is off the market.

[sharpe1027]

Have you passed the CPAs? If not, then - check out this awesome analogy - you’re basically telling a brain surgeon that she ain’t know shit about brain surgery. Leave the cap to experts such as myself. ;)

Sure, there are opportunity costs. But Wilson’s cap hit is 35.4M this year whether or not he’s on the team. It ain’t that difficult to cook the cap if the Asses need that 35.4 so baldy to sign, say, Mike Evens.

I passed the CPA twice, the first time without studying at all and second time just for fun. You don't know what the hell you're talking about.

[ThunderDan]

Clueless fans who think they’re smarter than a burger flipper with a worthless bachelor’s in accounting, as well as having passed the fucking Wisconsin CPAs, see $85M in “dead money” and they think, cap hell!

There ain’t any fuck as a cap hell anymore. Asses of Denver (not to be confused with the Asses of Indianapolis), don’t owe Wilson 85M. They’re gonna spread the hit over two years. Wilson’s cap hit this year will be 35.4M, minus chump change from another team - the 35.4M figure would be exactly the same figure if Wilson was still an Ass. 49.6M next year when the cap’s gonna inflate even more. Cap hell, my ass!

Apparently, our resident burger flipper doesn't understand the difference between cap hell and we don't have any cash to pay players.

Here is a better analogy. You are only allowed to spend $10 for dinner at a burger joint. I have $100.00 in my wallet but I am only allowed to spend $10.
Now if I want I can buy $15 value meal and it will cost $7.50 this meal but $7.50 against my next $10 meal. So I buy a $2.50 ice cream with my remaining "dinner cap" space.
On night 2 a new item is available at the burger joint for only $5. I still have $82.50 in my wallet so I can easily afford it. Unfortunately, I can only spend $2.50 towards tonight's dinner and cannot buy the $5 item.

[ThunderDan]

I passed the CPA twice, the first time without studying at all and second time just for fun. You don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Hard to believe but I will let it pass. The reason why I find it a stretch is, at least when I took the CPA test, you had to have memorized the correct wording of an Audit opinion. The math part, the numbers part and business law part I have no doubt you could pass.

[SudsMcBucky]

Have you passed the CPAs? If not, then - check out this awesome analogy - you’re basically telling a brain surgeon that she ain’t know shit about brain surgery. Leave the cap to experts such as myself. ;)

Sure, there are opportunity costs. But Wilson’s cap hit is 35.4M this year whether or not he’s on the team. It ain’t that difficult to cook the cap if the Asses need that 35.4 so baldy to sign, say, Mike Evens.

As a matter of fact, I have. Also got my masters in accounting graduating with distinction.

[texaspackerbacker]

Congrats on the distinction, and congrats to any of you that passed the CPA exam. I got a C minus in Accounting 101 and 102 long ago at U.W. and then gravitated to majoring in Finance instead (this was over 50 years ago), but I'm here to tell ya'all, APB's posting about the cap is more well grounded and sensible than anybody else in here - right up there on a par with me. Virtually anything that needs to be done can be done.

And APB, after reading your post below mine, porn addiction is no excuse. I've got that probably as much or more than you (and probably since before you were born hahahaha), and it hasn't hurt me.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

As a matter of fact, I have. Also got my masters in accounting graduating with distinction.

I wholeheartedly regret not majoring in English, a la Prof Fritz. Would be in Hollywood today dating Jennifer Lawrence, Brie Larson, Zendaya or Olivia Rodrigo.

Accounting is boring as fuck. And it chains me to the burger joint.

Porn addiction ain’t no joke, folks. Dulls the mind and forces one towards even duller accounting.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Congrats on the distinction, and congrats to any of you that passed the CPA exam. I got a C minus in Accounting 101 and 102 long ago at U.W. and then gravitated to majoring in Finance instead (this was over 50 years ago), but I'm here to tell ya'all, APB's posting about the cap is more well grounded and sensible than anybody else in here - right up there on a par with me. Virtually anything that needs to be done can be done.

And APB, after reading your post below mine, porn addiction is no excuse. I've got that probably as much or more than you (and probably since before you were born hahahaha), and it hasn't hurt me.

Used to be, the cap’s purpose was to handicap fat owners from buying championships like in the MLB. Nowadays, with soaring revenues and revenue sharing, the owners have been exploiting the cap to limit labor costs.

The cap can always be cooked. Pigs simply ain’t too fond of “cooking the cap” cos it fucks with their bottom line. Getting fatter remains the name of the game.

In truth, Wilson wasn’t benched last season due to poor play. Was he prime Russ? No. But he played better than a lotta garbage QBs in the NFL. The Waltons benched Wilson to avoid being on the hook should the slings and arrows struck Ole Russ.

[SudsMcBucky]

Used to be, the cap’s purpose was to handicap fat owners from buying championships like in the MLB. Nowadays, with soaring revenues and revenue sharing, the owners have been exploiting the cap to limit labor costs.

The cap can always be cooked. Pigs simply ain’t too fond of “cooking the cap” cos it fucks with their bottom line. Getting fatter remains the name of the game.

In truth, Wilson wasn’t benched last season due to poor play. Was he prime Russ? No. But he played better than a lotta garbage QBs in the NFL. The Waltons benched Wilson to avoid being on the hook should the slings and arrows struck Ole Russ.

Yes, the caps can be cooked, but eventually, all payouts will have to hit the books. No, the cap isn't an excuse for owners to pad their pockets. They are required to pay at least 89% of the alotted cap over any 4-year period. I guess technically, they could pad it that 11%, but that would be the most.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Yes, the caps can be cooked...

Enough said.

[SudsMcBucky]

Enough said.

I don't think anyone is arguing you over that fact, though. The argument is whethere the cap is fictitious altogether or can be manipulated without limitations.

[run pMc]

I don't think anyone is arguing you over that fact, though. The argument is whethere the cap is fictitious altogether or can be manipulated without limitations.

This.
If the cap could be cooked without limitations (or was fictitious) almost every team would do it. Jerry Jones and that jerk Dan Snyder would have had a half dozen Lombardis each.
The cap is not used to line owners pockets, it's to enforce parity and keep contracts from outpacing reality. TV contracts and other revenue streams are lining owners pockets.

[texaspackerbacker]

Yes, the caps can be cooked, but eventually, all payouts will have to hit the books. No, the cap isn't an excuse for owners to pad their pockets. They are required to pay at least 89% of the alotted cap over any 4-year period. I guess technically, they could pad it that 11%, but that would be the most.

The key word is "eventually". By the time eventually rolls around, the cap is much higher and the benefits are realized.

Buying championships - in football or baseball - isn't all it's cracked up to be. A helluva lot of small market teams with less money have outperformed the richer ones. Luck and smarts have a lot more to do with success than money.

[SudsMcBucky]

The key word is "eventually". By the time eventually rolls around, the cap is much higher and the benefits are realized.

Buying championships - in football or baseball - isn't all it's cracked up to be. A helluva lot of small market teams with less money have outperformed the richer ones. Luck and smarts have a lot more to do with success than money.

Continually cooking the cap can lead to a team not being able to offer an UFA the same amount of money when that bill comes due. That's where it hurts. For instance, there were players we couldn't go after this year because the bill finally came due on AR. Same next year with what's left of Bakh's contract. Again, these bills DO come due and it will make it so you can't offer someone new the same amount of money that another team can at that given time.

[Joemailman]

Nothing to see here.



Ari Meirov
@MySportsUpdate

The #Bills were $40M over the salary cap entering today.

They've already released C Mitch Morse, S Jordan Poyer, CB Siran Neal and WR Deonte Harty.... And they are still over the cap.

So for the doubters... The salary cap is very real.

[Frozen Tundra]

Continually cooking the cap can lead to a team not being able to offer an UFA the same amount of money when that bill comes due. That's where it hurts. For instance, there were players we couldn't go after this year because the bill finally came due on AR. Same next year with what's left of Bakh's contract. Again, these bills DO come due and it will make it so you can't offer someone new the same amount of money that another team can at that given time.

I can't believe this still needs to be explained to people. It's like people think that as long as they have checks in the checkbook, they can just keep writing checks.

[NewsBruin]

Continually cooking the cap can lead to a team not being able to offer an UFA the same amount of money when that bill comes due.

And since you're trading unguaranteed money (future seasons' salary) for spread-out guaranteed money (prorated bonuses), you can't cut or trade that player without getting an anvil dropped on your salary-cap plans. So if you "cook the books" or "kick the can" or whatever metaphor (It's easy! Any team can do it!), you're hoping that this is a dude who can play the whole term of his contract, who won't change for the worse when a huge bonus is dropped in his lap, and who won't be a big cloud of stink in the lockerroom.

My local team, the Saints, had their head coach leave for the Rockies once he saw that his retirement-postponing QB wasn't postponing it anymore and years of his prorated salaries were gonna come due -- causing them to cut more players to clear cap space. Now that I write it out, I'm thrilled he's got a Russel Wilson-sized hole in the 2023 and 2024 salary caps.

Personally, I don't subscribe to the "If we spend a lot of money and make it to the Conference Championship, I'll be okay as the division's doormat for seasons to come!" THAT is what I think of as true credit-card mentality.

[sharpe1027]

If everything goes absolutely perfect, pushing money into the future is an even trade-off, now vs later. A real problem, as noted multiple times, is when things don't go perfectly with the players for which you pushed cap into the future.

[Fritz]

I am hoping the Packers will, as they often did under Thompson, let some of the big names get snatched and overpaid, then see who's out there who can help at a more reasonable price.

I'm thinking about '25 as THE season.

[run pMc]

They can get a Jordan Fuller or Julian Blackmon type of S for less than they paid Savage last year, and get better production. Savage missed almost 14% of his tackle attempts, that's not good.
The FA safety market might be the area they strike. I don't see them signing a vet RB in FA. Maybe a LB?

They can cut DeVondre and get 2.6M cap space, do the same with Royce Newman and get about the same number and put together sign someone who can help.

[texaspackerbacker]

I can't believe this still needs to be explained to people. It's like people think that as long as they have checks in the checkbook, they can just keep writing checks.

Did you (or would you) postpone buying a house or a car until you had enough money to pay cash for it? Or would you "cook" the limit of your finances with a mortgage or car loan? THAT's what needs to be explained to people. You are anticipating that you will have more money (or cap space) in the future, so you kick the can down the road and benefit in the meantime.

[texaspackerbacker]

I'm kinda hoping the Packers can sign Xavier McKinney from the Giants. He would be a step upward IMO from Savage. The total money might be more, but likely, you could fix it so the cap hit is no worse.

[jklowan]

I'm kinda hoping the Packers can sign Xavier McKinney from the Giants. He would be a step upward IMO from Savage. The total money might be more, but likely, you could fix it so the cap hit is no worse.


Xavier McKinney comments on potentially signing with Packers in free agencyIf the Packers make a deal with McKinney, they can give an assist to Kay Adams. On a recent episode of Up & Adams, she brought up the possibility of McKinney reuniting with former defensive backs coach Derrick Ansley in Green Bay.
McKinney said that he was "intrigued" when he heard the news of the Packers hiring Ansley.
"I didn't know that he was there. I thought he was still with the Chargers," said McKinney. "So when I heard that news, I was kind of intrigued a little bit."
Ansley was the lead recruiter and defensive backs coach at Alabama during McKinney's time there. The Packers hired Ansley as their new defensive pass game coordinator this offseason, having spent last year as the Los Angeles Chargers' defensive coordinator.
Reuniting McKinney with Ansley makes a lot of sense, and the former second-round pick could play various roles in Jeff Hafley's defense (https://lombardiave.com/posts/jeff-hafley-describes-perfect-safety-target-packers-2024-nfl-draft-01hq9wdg6j87).
"I'm very versatile," said McKinney. "I've proven I can play the deep part of the field. I can play half the field, quarters coverage, I can blitz. I'm able to play man to man, I'm able to play zone, I can play in the slot."

[Frozen Tundra]

They can get a Jordan Fuller or Julian Blackmon type of S for less than they paid Savage last year, and get better production. Savage missed almost 14% of his tackle attempts, that's not good.
The FA safety market might be the area they strike. I don't see them signing a vet RB in FA. Maybe a LB?

They can cut DeVondre and get 2.6M cap space, do the same with Royce Newman and get about the same number and put together sign someone who can help.

It's quite possible that we can solve our immediate safety problem (2 quality starting safeties) in free agency, and go into the draft totally focused on other needs - OL, DL (which is one the fans don't seem to be thinking about, but I promise you Hafley sure is), RB, LB, secondary depth.

[Frozen Tundra]

Did you (or would you) postpone buying a house or a car until you had enough money to pay cash for it? Or would you "cook" the limit of your finances with a mortgage or car loan? THAT's what needs to be explained to people. You are anticipating that you will have more money (or cap space) in the future, so you kick the can down the road and benefit in the meantime.

When I buy a house or a car, I usually expect to keep them for several years - not buy one or two more houses and cars every single year for the indefinite future. So the payment becomes a fixed, one-time part of my yearly budget, and stays constant for years or even decades.

[Fritz]

I dunno about signing two guys, but I think, given how many safeties have been let go now, that they ought to be able to get someone who'll be an upgrade from what they put out there last year. After all the releases, it's hard to imagine Savage getting some big contract somewhere.

If they can sign a safety and either a running back or a linebacker, then they'd go into the draft with fewer pressing needs.

I'm still hoping they re-sign Kesean Nixon.

[red]

I dunno about signing two guys, but I think, given how many safeties have been let go now, that they ought to be able to get someone who'll be an upgrade from what they put out there last year. After all the releases, it's hard to imagine Savage getting some big contract somewhere.

If they can sign a safety and either a running back or a linebacker, then they'd go into the draft with fewer pressing needs.

I'm still hoping they re-sign Kesean Nixon.

i like the idea of signing a safety , then drafting another one high

with so many vet safeties hitting free agencies, that should drive the price down for them. you might be able to sign a second vet for dirt cheap to be a backup/ possible starter

[Joemailman]

Ian Rapoport
@RapSheet

Sources: The #Broncos are in the process of trading star WR Jerry Jeudy to the #Browns, as Denver tries to stockpile draft picks & Cleveland adds a weapon.

[ThunderDan]

Ian Rapoport
@RapSheet

Sources: The #Broncos are in the process of trading star WR Jerry Jeudy to the #Browns, as Denver tries to stockpile draft picks & Cleveland adds a weapon.

Not surprising. The Broncos are fucked for the next couple of years while they get Russel off their salary cap. They aren't going to be able to sign contracts and have the time to wait for their new QB to develop. Their window isn't even going to start to open for 2-3 years.

Might as well get as much good young talent as possible and let it develop over the next couple of years.

[red]

Ian Rapoport
@RapSheet

Sources: The #Broncos are in the process of trading star WR Jerry Jeudy to the #Browns, as Denver tries to stockpile draft picks & Cleveland adds a weapon.

only getting a 5th and 6th round pick in return

broncos are a shit show

[Joemailman]

only getting a 5th and 6th round pick in return

broncos are a shit show

They need to create cap space to pay off the Russ contract.

[Ratatouille]

They need to create cap space to pay off the Russ contract.

According to Spotrac the Broncos have $27M in cap space after the Jeudy trade compared to the Packers $13M. The Broncos will also have a $50M dead cap this year and I believe $45M dead cap in 2025. Packers have a dead cap of $12.5M for just this year but a looming contract for Jordan Love. I have no idea what the Broncos will do at QB as I doubt Jarrett Stidham or Ben DiNucci is the answer.

[Joemailman]

Hmmm..



Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero

Veteran kicker Nick Folk, who leads the NFL in field-goal percentage over the past four seasons, is expected to test the free-agent market, per source. Folk made 29 of 30 FG attempts in 2023 with Tennessee.

[Frozen Tundra]

Hmmm..

Do it. In a heartbeat.

[ThunderDan]

According to Spotrac the Broncos have $27M in cap space after the Jeudy trade compared to the Packers $13M. The Broncos will also have a $50M dead cap this year and I believe $45M dead cap in 2025. Packers have a dead cap of $12.5M for just this year but a looming contract for Jordan Love. I have no idea what the Broncos will do at QB as I doubt Jarrett Stidham or Ben DiNucci is the answer.

I don’t think that number counts Russell’s cap hit. Over the cap has them at $19M over after releasing Russell.

[call_me_ishmael]

Hmmm..

If they were gonna have an old-ass kicker, why get rid of Crosby? I guess they tried the young kicker thing and he kind of sucked so there's that.

[Fritz]

Why are you all talking about Denver being in cap hell because of the Russell Wilson contract when APB has schooled us all in the myth of the limitations of a salary cap?

[run pMc]

Hmmm..

I think Chase McLaughlin is available? He made plenty of FG/XP and would be cheap competition for Carlson. Folk will ask for more money.
I doubt they spend a lot for K competition; I really think they want Carlson to win but also want to make him work harder for it than last year.

[run pMc]

Why are you all talking about Denver being in cap hell because of the Russell Wilson contract when APB has schooled us all in the myth of the limitations of a salary cap?

Cap is totally fake. Just think they coulda had BOTH Rodgers and Russ in trades and platooned them, alternating series to throw off teams. The cap numbers would've been fine as long as you kicked the can down the road until 2032 and signed nothing but street free agents, but who cares. That's all fake. Sign Dex Bryant and OBJ and bring back Jermichael. The salary cap is fake just like a credit card balance. Pure Fiction.

[bobblehead]

When I buy a house or a car, I usually expect to keep them for several years - not buy one or two more houses and cars every single year for the indefinite future. So the payment becomes a fixed, one-time part of my yearly budget, and stays constant for years or even decades.

Wait...you don't refinance it every 4 years and then continue paying for it during the "void years" 3 years after you move out?? You must be doing it wrong.

[bobblehead]

They need to create cap space to pay off the Russ contract.

They went "all in"....can't they just ignore the cap and sign Cousins?? I thought the cap wasn't real. I thought going for it was the only way to win.

[KYPack]

Cap is totally fake. Just think they coulda had BOTH Rodgers and Russ in trades and platooned them, alternating series to throw off teams. The cap numbers would've been fine as long as you kicked the can down the road until 2032 and signed nothing but street free agents, but who cares. That's all fake. Sign Dex Bryant and OBJ and bring back Jermichael. The salary cap is fake just like a credit card balance. Pure Fiction.

Tex and Tank's cap cooking shack. Serving no one since 2008.

Why do these two think teams are making all these moves to get their cap in order? Just for the hell of it?

[Frozen Tundra]

Cap is totally fake. Just think they coulda had BOTH Rodgers and Russ in trades and platooned them, alternating series to throw off teams. The cap numbers would've been fine as long as you kicked the can down the road until 2032 and signed nothing but street free agents, but who cares. That's all fake. Sign Dex Bryant and OBJ and bring back Jermichael. The salary cap is fake just like a credit card balance. Pure Fiction.

"How could my checking account possibly be overdrawn? There are still checks in the checkbook!"

[texaspackerbacker]

Whine all ya'all want about cap cooking, but it has served the Packers and most successful teams well for a long time. The few teams that struggle are the ones who think like some of ya'all in here - that they have to periodically (and stupidly) stop cooking and rebuild.

What really kills success is bad luck, like when somebody they really expect to carry the team either suddenly fades (Wilson) or gets hurt (Rodgers).

[Joemailman]

Russell Wilson will sign 1 year team friendly contract with Steelers. Basically Broncos will be paying him to play for Steelers.

Legal tampering period starts Monday at 11:00 AM CDT.

[Fritz]

Whine all ya'all want about cap cooking, but it has served the Packers and most successful teams well for a long time. The few teams that struggle are the ones who think like some of ya'all in here - that they have to periodically (and stupidly) stop cooking and rebuild.

What really kills success is bad luck, like when somebody they really expect to carry the team either suddenly fades (Wilson) or gets hurt (Rodgers).

So the only teams that suffer are those who come to eventually “believe” the cap is real and foolishly try to balance the books?

Wow. I just need to make sure I never start to believe the Drew Barrymore won’t go out with me.

Come on, Drew. Let’s hit the town, baby!

[run pMc]

Is 'bad luck' a euphemism for 'aging'? Because that's what Russell and Rodgers have done to where injuries and poor performance get you. Having an old QB fail to play well or last a full season is not bad luck, it's bad planning.

At some point teams have to at least ease up if not stop cooking, otherwise the weight of the dead cap hits prevents your team from signing or keeping (good) players. If GB hadn't hit the jackpot on its receivers this past season, or if Gute hadn't drafted Jordan Love, they would've been a trainwreck last year...and they had kicked everything they could forward just to get under the cap and absorb Rodgers cap hit.

[bobblehead]

Is 'bad luck' a euphemism for 'aging'? Because that's what Russell and Rodgers have done to where injuries and poor performance get you. Having an old QB fail to play well or last a full season is not bad luck, it's bad planning.

At some point teams have to at least ease up if not stop cooking, otherwise the weight of the dead cap hits prevents your team from signing or keeping (good) players. If GB hadn't hit the jackpot on its receivers this past season, or if Gute hadn't drafted Jordan Love, they would've been a trainwreck last year...and they had kicked everything they could forward just to get under the cap and absorb Rodgers cap hit.

Bad Luck is a thing in the short term. But people like Tex (and APB) think making poor decisions over and over equates bad luck.

[texaspackerbacker]

Maybe, run pMc, but they had good reason to believe Wilson would be way better than he turned out to be - I call that bad luck. Worse luck for them would be if he snapped back and played good for somebody else - on their money. Joe, I know in baseball it happens like you described. I don't know, but isn't there some rule in the NFL that a guy can't double dip - still receive money from one team and then sign and get more with somebody else?

As for Rodgers, I'm actually predicting that Rodgers comes back and plays like the GOAT that he is this year for the Jets, unless there is another round of bad luck, and he gets hurt again.

Fritz, yes, now you're getting it - exactly like you said, sarcasm be damned hahahaha. As for you and Drew, luck has it's limits. I Googled her, age is catching up with her. She's 46 now, so maybe you 've got a chance like the Steelers with Wilson hahahaha.

bobblehead, yeah, that's about right I guess, but I can't really say cuz I never had any extended run of bad luck - it must mean good decisions hahahaha.

[NewsBruin]

I read in some Yahoo Sports article that Russ Wilson didn't have the same super-meticulous playbook memorization that Drew Brees had (I assume the source is Payton or someone on the offensive staff), so a lot of the if-thens and hundreds of plays were scrapped for a slimmer selection.

Back in my fantasy football seasons, I remember the Broncos having a number of above-average WRs/TEs but never a clear #1. Most of those dudes I was waiting for a breakout were still on the roster (until Jeudy got traded). So it's not like talent was a problem, but I think Wilson wasn't the playbook nerd/non-improvisor Sean Payton wanted. That may be part of "bad luck," when the coach and QB don't agree on how to play offense.

[NewsBruin]

Joe, I know in baseball it happens like you described. I don't know, but isn't there some rule in the NFL that a guy can't double dip - still receive money from one team and then sign and get more with somebody else?

I remember reading that "offsets" were one of the negotiating angles in the revamped draft contracts, and it looks like it's caught up to the vets as well.

I keep reading that Russell will get his full guaranteed Broncos salary minus whatever his current team pays him. I'm curious if his Steelers minimum is added back to the Broncos cap or if both teams lose out on that $1.xxx million.

[Frozen Tundra]

Whine all ya'all want about cap cooking, but it has served the Packers and most successful teams well for a long time.

"Whining"? Whose posts are you reading? I don't see anyone "whining" about cooking the cap; just saying that like any financial tool, it has to be used wisely and sparingly. Similar to credit cards, it can be a useful and important part of managing your budget, but - also like revolving credit - there is a risk. If you overuse it, it will limit your flexibility and limit your options for spending money on things in the future.

It's just simple common sense.



The few teams that struggle are the ones who think like some of ya'all in here - that they have to periodically (and stupidly) stop cooking and rebuild.

Which more often than not are the teams that keep kicking the cap down the road year after year because they let themselves get trapped in a cycle where eventually their only option is to tear it all down and start from scratch - like New Orleans is going to have to do now, and to some degree Denver. Just like people who can't manage credit cards. They run up big credit card debt, when the car breaks down they have to buy used because they don't have enough credit to buy new.



What really kills success is bad luck, like when somebody they really expect to carry the team either suddenly fades (Wilson) or gets hurt (Rodgers).

First of all, bad luck is one of the things that can really kill success, but it isn't the one thing. The world just isn't that simple a place. Just like with personal finances, if you plan carefully and manage your budget wisely you can survive bad luck - but if you plan foolishly, you better damned well hope your luck stays good, because if it goes bad, you're screwed.

Which is the story right now in Denver. What you call "bad luck" is what everyone else on the planet calls one of the stupidest deals any team ever made in the history of the NFL. It was a foolish risk, and it's going to cripple them for years. You can't just handwave that away as bad luck, they have nobody to blame for that but themselves. Smart GMs don't do things like put themselves into a position where they need to pray for good luck.

[Joemailman]

Tony Pollard signing 3 year, 24M deal with Titans

Vikings signing Texans OLB Jonathan Greenard to a 4 year 76M deal with 42M guaranteed. Greenard had 12.5 sacks in 2023.

Bears signing RB D'Andre Swift to a 3 year 24M deal.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

I don’t think that number counts Russell’s cap hit. Over the cap has them at $19M over after releasing Russell.

You’re either misreading or simply cannot comprehend your own source. Wilson currently sits at the very top of the Broncos’ cap hit this season at 35.4M, according to OTC. Broncos are currently 28.8M under the cap, according to OTC.

But yeah, since I lack knowledge of astrology, I’ll just assume that the sun is 8 minutes away from the earth - just like the person who cannot understand the dynamics of the NFL salary cap assumes the Broncos are in a cap hell, especially since they saw the 85M “dead money” figure.

[run pMc]

Savage signing with JAX for 3 years.

[Joemailman]

Tony Pollard signing 3 year, 24M deal with Titans

Vikings signing Texans OLB Jonathan Greenard to a 4 year 76M deal with 42M guaranteed. Greenard had 12.5 sacks in 2023.

Bears signing RB D'Andre Swift to a 3 year 24M deal.

Raider signing former Dolphins DT Christian Wilkins to 4 year, 110M deal with 84.75M guaranteed.

Jaguars signing former Bills WR Gabe Davis.

Rams signing former Lions G Jonah Jackson to a 3 year 51M deal with 34M guaranteed.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

They need to create cap space to pay off the Russ contract.

No they don’t. The greed-fucked Waltons just don’t want to pay Juedy his 12.9M 5th year option. All things being equal, Broncos coulda kept Juedy and still be $16M beneath the cap.

Trading Juedy costs the Broncos $0 in “dead money.”

[run pMc]

Packers are signing RB Josh Jacobs, according to reports. Holy crap. What are we doing?

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Packers are signing RB Josh Jacobs, according to reports. Holy crap. What are we doing?

Wait, what? Ain’t the Packers in a cap hell?

[Joemailman]

Kirk Cousins signing with Falcons.

Tony Pollard signing 3 year, 24M deal with Titans

Vikings signing Texans OLB Jonathan Greenard to a 4 year 76M deal with 42M guaranteed. Greenard had 12.5 sacks in 2023.

Bears signing RB D'Andre Swift to a 3 year 24M deal.

Raider signing former Dolphins DT Christian Wilkins to 4 year, 110M deal with 84.75M guaranteed.

Jaguars signing former Bills WR Gabe Davis.

Rams signing former Lions G Jonah Jackson to a 3 year 51M deal with 34M guaranteed.

[ThunderDan]

You’re either misreading or simply cannot comprehend your own source. Wilson currently sits at the very top of the Broncos’ cap hit this season at 35.4M, according to OTC. Broncos are currently 28.8M under the cap, according to OTC.

But yeah, since I lack knowledge of astrology, I’ll just assume that the sun is 8 minutes away from the earth - just like the person who cannot understand the dynamics of the NFL salary cap assumes the Broncos are in a cap hell, especially since they saw the 85M “dead money” figure.

Over the Cap has the Broncos $28M under the cap with Russell counting $35.4 million. When the Broncos official release Russell pre 6/1 his cap hit for 2024 jumps to $85M which puts the Broncos over the cap.

[run pMc]

Yeah Cousins supposedly signing a 4 year deal with ATL. Yikes. The NFCN is going to be interesting this season. You have to think 2 new starting QBs in the division.

[Frozen Tundra]

Yeah Cousins supposedly signing a 4 year deal with ATL. Yikes. The NFCN is going to be interesting this season. You have to think 2 new starting QBs in the division.

And probably both rookies.

[Joemailman]

Eagles signing former Jets DE Bryce Huff to 3 year, 51M contract.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Over the Cap has the Broncos $28M under the cap with Russell counting $35.4 million. When the Broncos official release Russell pre 6/1 his cap hit for 2024 jumps to $85M which puts the Broncos over the cap.

1. It was obvious as fuck the Asses ain’t gonna absorb all 85M this year.

2. I replied to your post in which you questioned another poster about the Asses being under the cap.

But feel free change contexts to make yourself look smart.

[run pMc]

Runyan signing with NYG for 3/30M, 17M guaranteed. Madness.

[Spaulding]

Runyan signing with NYG for 3/30M, 17M guaranteed. Madness.

Wow, talk about overpaying. Then again the market for OG's this year is on fire. Sure glad we have 11 draft picks to hopefully provide some depth without the cost.

[run pMc]

Schefter reporting Aaron Jones will be released? UGH yuck.

[run pMc]

RB S. Barkley and S Xavier McKinney signing with Eagles, LB Blake Cashman with Vikings.

[pittstang5]

RB S. Barkley and S Xavier McKinney signing with Eagles, LB Blake Cashman with Vikings.

Fuckin Eagles! I hate them as much as I hate the Bears!

[Sparkey]

Did you get Steinberg'd on the Mckinney signing ?

As of thirty minutes ago Packers/Eagles both trying to sign Mckinney....

[pittstang5]

RB S. Barkley and S Xavier McKinney signing with Eagles, LB Blake Cashman with Vikings.

NFL Network just reported McKinney is signing with the PACK!!!

Yes!!!!

[Frozen Tundra]

NFL Network just reported McKinney is signing with the PACK!!!

Yes!!!!

God DAMN, this has been a busy day!!!! :jig:

[QBME]

God DAMN, this has been a busy day!!!! :jig:

During the season this is typically known as "over reaction Monday"

Dang, the NFL knows how to pull the strings

[Sparkey]

During the season this is typically known as "over reaction Monday"

Dang, the NFL knows how to pull the strings

You mean like, THE PACKERS ARE GOING TO WIN THE SUPERBOWL!!! overreaction ? :clap::flm: :satan:

[QBME]

You mean like, THE PACKERS ARE GOING TO WIN THE SUPERBOWL!!! overreaction ? :clap::flm: :satan:

You try'in to be funny?
You're not a fan??
Of course we're going to the Owl this season!!!
:razz:

[run pMc]

RB S. Barkley and S Xavier McKinney signing with Eagles, LB Blake Cashman with Vikings.

Take that back - looks like McKinney is signing with Green Bay. Will be a good fit in Hafley's D, at $17M a year he better be.

[run pMc]

I'm still mad about Josh Jacobs. 4y/48M and cutting Jones? DO NOT LIKE.
Jacobs is 26, but he has more carries/touches than Jones, career-wise, and I don't think he's as dynamic.

I just don't like paying a lot for a RB in FA. If the contract is back loaded, maybe... but they'll still need to draft RBs.

[Freak Out]

Cousins getting $45 million a year? LOL

[run pMc]

Cousins getting $45 million a year? LOL

I think MIN and ATL were in the bidding, and ATL is pretty desperate for a QB. Pretty sure the new HC basically said that he wouldn't have been hired if the QB play was better.

Makes you wonder what Jordan Love is going to get when he's eligible for an extension in May.

[MadtownPacker]

Love can just wait until after the season so he can have the SB win to negotiate…

[Teamcheez1]

Love can just wait until after the season so he can have the SB win to negotiate…

If Kirk Cousins received $45M per year, what do we pay Love?

[Joemailman]

If Kirk Cousins received $45M per year, what do we pay Love?

50

[MadtownPacker]

50
Fuckin cheapskate. Don’t think that’s going to cut it. Can’t buy a burger for 50 cent anymore geezer.

[KYPack]

Fuckin cheapskate. Don’t think that’s going to cut it. Can’t buy a burger for 50 cent anymore geezer.

You can buy em, but you can't eat a 50cent burgh.

Love's comp will be in the 50 to 55 range.

Term? 5? 6?

Who knows?

Love and this last draft has me solidly in the "Gute trust" camp.

I just think he has a plan and will get it done.

[texaspackerbacker]

For once, I agree with you, KYP.

[bobblehead]

I was skiing all day. Did I miss anything??

[Joemailman]

I was skiing all day. Did I miss anything??

Packers re-signed Tyler Davis.

[Frozen Tundra]

Packers re-signed Tyler Davis.

Yeah, that was my big moment. It was such a shock to see Green Bay finally do something in free agency, I became lightheaded and had to retire to my bedchamber with an attack of the vapors.

Tomorrow afternoon, I'll check back in on the internet and see whether we have resigned Nixon and Deguera. Hopefully they'll only have signed one of the two, and save the other for later this week; a man of my age can only take so much exctement in one day.

[KYPack]

For once, I agree with you, KYP.

Izzat a fact?

Maybe you're learning

[Joemailman]

Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero

The #Vikings are releasing veteran DL Dean Lowry, per source.

[run pMc]

In the most Baltimore of signings, Derrick Henry signs with the Ravens. Two years, $16M.

[Joemailman]

Bengals trading RB Joe Mixon to Texans for undisclosed draft choice.

[Rastak]

Aaron Jones has a landing spot not far from GB.

[KYPack]

Aaron Jones has a landing spot not far from GB.

Hey quit pilfering our running back rejects!

[Rastak]

Hey quit pilfering our running back rejects!

Joking aside, one year 7M is a pretty good deal I think for an older back.

[Ratatouille]

Cousins getting $45 million a year? LOL

Cousins has 1 playoff win and 4 losses in his entire career yet has managed to make $331.7M from 2012 through 2023. This is second only to Rodgers who has made $342.5 from 2005 through 2023.

[Fritz]

Joking aside, one year 7M is a pretty good deal I think for an older back.

Well, when he’s on the field, that older running back can change a game. You got a good one, and a great guy, too. He’ll do ya proud, Ras.

Don’t know who’s going to be handing the ball to him, though. Cousins fleeced the Falcons.

[Rastak]

Well, when he’s on the field, that older running back can change a game. You got a good one, and a great guy, too. He’ll do ya proud, Ras.

Don’t know who’s going to be handing the ball to him, though. Cousins fleeced the Falcons.

Coming off an achilles tear to boot.

[MadtownPacker]

Coming off an achilles tear to boot.
Need to trade the whole cupboard for Rodgers… :lol:

[MadtownPacker]

Aaron Jones has a landing spot not far from GB.#ThanksGute!

[Patler]

Aaron Jones has a landing spot not far from GB.

I will cheer for him to do well about 88.23% of the time!

[Rastak]

Need to trade the whole cupboard for Rodgers… :lol:


He's busy trying to be vice president.

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/aaron-rodgers-at-top-of-list-to-be-running-mate-with-robert-f-kennedy-jr

[Rastak]

I will cheer for him to do well about 88.23% of the time!

Good man Patler.

[Frozen Tundra]

He's busy trying to be vice president.

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/aaron-rodgers-at-top-of-list-to-be-running-mate-with-robert-f-kennedy-jr

God help this country...

[Fritz]

Wow. Dude would be playing football AND running for vice president at the same time.

[Joemailman]

Raiders will reportedly release Hunter Renfrow and Jimmy Garoppolo. Looks like it will save them about 20M in cap space. Davante must be feeling lonely.

[Joemailman]

I will cheer for him to do well about 88.23% of the time!

I will cheer for him if a Vikings win helps the Packers. That is all.

[call_me_ishmael]

Jon Runyan got 17 mil in his NY bank account to go play for the Jets. Crazy. Dude is not very good IMO.

[Sparkey]

Jon Runyan got 17 mil in his NY bank account to go play for the Jets. Crazy. Dude is not very good IMO.

Giants not Jets....

[Joemailman]

Jon Runyan got 17 mil in his NY bank account to go play for the Jets. Crazy. Dude is not very good IMO.

I think Packers fans are a bit spoiled by the offensive lines the Packers have had. Runyan isn't great, but he's better than what most teams have at RG. Guards have been getting very good money this year in FA.

[run pMc]

I think Packers fans are a bit spoiled by the offensive lines the Packers have had. Runyan isn't great, but he's better than what most teams have at RG. Guards have been getting very good money this year in FA.

Agree we have been a bit spoiled by some above average OL. The signings speak to how hard it is for some teams to field a passable starting five.

As it is, GB's starting five could use some reinforcements - Walker-Jenkins-Myers-Rhyan-Tom has some weak links at C and RG, and no depth unless you think Newman counts. Depth in the draft that lines up with GB needs basically starts and stops with OL, so I expect a significant investment there.
I don't expect GB to sign an OL in FA.

JRJ is an ok player, but I don't think anyone here would want to give him $10M/yr.
I'm surprised he got that much from the NYG, but their line has had problems for a few years now. If they hope to get anything from that crazy Daniel Jones contract they'll have to keep him upright and unbroken.

[texaspackerbacker]

True. I like Runyan, and I wouldn't pay him $10 a year. I still hope we don't take an O Lineman in the first round, but ideally we can find a couple of good ones about 3rd, 4th, and 5th.

[Joemailman]

Chargers trading WR Keenan Allen to Bears for 4th round pick. Quite the fire sale Chargers are having even though the cap isn't real.

[KYPack]

Chargers trading WR Keenan Allen to Bears for 4th round pick. Quite the fire sale Chargers are having even though the cap isn't real.

Really. The Bolts need to get hold of Tex and Tank. Those two will obliterate their cap woes with their bullshit.

[call_me_ishmael]

Chargers trading WR Keenan Allen to Bears for 4th round pick. Quite the fire sale Chargers are having even though the cap isn't real.

How did a team with so much talent and THAT QB not win anything? Coaching must matter for something.

[texaspackerbacker]

Chargers trading WR Keenan Allen to Bears for 4th round pick. Quite the fire sale Chargers are having even though the cap isn't real.

As I have said, it's real for those dumb enough to think and act like it's real.

I read that the Bears have decided to keep Fields as QB1. That, getting Keenan Allen, and a couple other deals, if they aren't careful, they might actually stop sucking.

[Frozen Tundra]

As I have said, it's real for those dumb enough to think and act like it's real.



Tex... please, dude... your entire argument about the salary cap is based solely on the premise that you're smarter than every single general manager in the NFL over the last generation, every single VP and director of player finance/football operations or whatever, every single expert analyst who makes a iving studying the financial complexities of running an NFL team. Every single one of them.

You know a secret that not one single one of them has ever been able to figure out, about one of the most critically important elements of building an NFL franchise that is a legitimate Super Bowl contender?

I'm not saying you're not a smart guy. I'm not saying you're dumb, at all. I'm not saying you're naive, or anything like that.

But I am suggesting that maybe there are some things you're not seeing, some realities about how the process works on the real-world level, some things that they've learned during the years they spent preparing for their jobs that... mmmm... maybe you don't see.

Does it really never occur to you that maybe you're not quite as knowledgeable as you want to think you are? Does it ever even cross your mind? That maybe there really are some good reasons those people do the things they do the way they do them?

How do you explain that? Seriously.

[Fritz]

What I’M saying is that Tex really missed his calling. He would’ve been an incredible cult leader.

Or maybe he is, and he posts on Packerrats in his spare time.

[NewsBruin]

It's a throwback to Norman Vincent Peale's Power of Positive Thinking. If I see something I don't like, especially if it's cumbersome or complicated, I'm going to get angry at its existence, declare I want something else, and then figure out a way to make that happen.

Sometimes you can beat the system (Uber).
Sometimes you can't (gravity).

The salary cap isn't a rule of nature; it's a human construct designed to not have teams overspend on players (and as a result, put some amount of drag on salary growth). This is most definitely a copycat league. If there were a surefire way of "legally" overcoming it or outright killing it, Jerry Jones would have perfected it and a whole lot of teams would have followed suit to not be at the end of the talent line.

[Joemailman]

What I’M saying is that Tex really missed his calling. He would’ve been an incredible cult leader.

Or maybe he is, and he posts on Packerrats in his spare time.

Or maybe he is a cult leader, and we are all under his spell but don't realize it.

[Joemailman]

Dianna Russini
@DMRussini

TRADE!
The Minnesota Vikings are moving up in the draft. They will trade with the Houstons Texans. Minnesota will get the 23rd and 232nd pick….Houston will get the 42nd, 188th and 2nd in 2025

Speculation is Vikings will package 2 1st round picks to move up in 1st round to draft a QB.

[texaspackerbacker]

What I’M saying is that Tex really missed his calling. He would’ve been an incredible cult leader.

Or maybe he is, and he posts on Packerrats in his spare time.

Yes Fritz, ya'all are under my spell. And you're all invited to a nice Jones Kool-Aid party. Drink up, and you'll never be negative thinkers again. I wonder who is old enough to get this hahahaha.

[Sparkey]

Yes Fritz, ya'all are under my spell. And you're all invited to a nice Jones Kool-Aid party. Drink up, and you'll never be negative thinkers again. I wonder who is old enough to get this hahahaha.

Not something to laugh about, but your haha was aimed more at who of us are old farts I assume. Thoe old saying about an idiot being born every minute. Who would of thought 918 of them would gather at the same place!?

[texaspackerbacker]

Tex... please, dude... your entire argument about the salary cap is based solely on the premise that you're smarter than every single general manager in the NFL over the last generation, every single VP and director of player finance/football operations or whatever, every single expert analyst who makes a iving studying the financial complexities of running an NFL team. Every single one of them.

You know a secret that not one single one of them has ever been able to figure out, about one of the most critically important elements of building an NFL franchise that is a legitimate Super Bowl contender?

I'm not saying you're not a smart guy. I'm not saying you're dumb, at all. I'm not saying you're naive, or anything like that.

But I am suggesting that maybe there are some things you're not seeing, some realities about how the process works on the real-world level, some things that they've learned during the years they spent preparing for their jobs that... mmmm... maybe you don't see.

Does it really never occur to you that maybe you're not quite as knowledgeable as you want to think you are? Does it ever even cross your mind? That maybe there really are some good reasons those people do the things they do the way they do them?

How do you explain that? Seriously.

No Frozen, it's not that I'm smarter than all of them (although I wouldn't rule that out hahahaha). It's that the GMs who do things the smart way tend to be winners, while those who do things the dumb way (ya'all's way) tend to be losers. Clearly, the Packers are in the former category - pushing the cap to the limit and realizing that we're better off that way. I recall a few years ago, people were talking about cap hell for the Niners, and they're doing all right. And the Cowboys certainly do what needs to be done cap-wise. I suppose others too. Then you have teams like the Chargers almost giving away an all pro WR cuz their panicking over the cap or the Giants over most of the past few decades or a few others who make stupid moves in the name of cap problems. Dumbasses talk consequences? Having consistently losing teams is the worst consequence of all, and that's the consequence of ya'll's dumbassery.

[texaspackerbacker]

Not something to laugh about, but your haha was aimed more at who of us are old farts I assume. Thoe old saying about an idiot being born every minute. Who would of thought 918 of them would gather at the same place!?

What? I was talking about Aaron Jones hahahaha, not some other guy who brought 918 (was that the number?) of presumably cap-conscious people together.

I wonder how many young'uns in here are wondering what this is all about hahahaha.

[run pMc]

Aaron Donald retiring. Devondrre Cambell signs with SF.

DET signed DJ Reader, who is a pretty good DL.
The MIN trade for another R1 is interesting - my first thought was it felt like MIN got the better of the deal vs. HOU, although most trade charts show it's a fair deal that may favor HOU. MIN packaging both picks to move up gets them to about 4 or 5.

CHI is a head scratcher. Getting Keenan Allen for a R4 seems like a good deal, until you realize he's about to turn 32 and this is his last year on his contract. Also note the CHI paid 24M for D'Andre Swift and $15M for an aging Kevin Byard. CHI could have tried to sign McKinney or Jacobs. They're making signings like they are a few players away, when they are likely restarting at QB and still have issues on the OL.

[texaspackerbacker]

Aaron Donald retiring at just age 32? I don't recall much history of injuries either. Good news for the rest of the league.

Good points about the Bears. They don't still suck for no reason hahahaha.

[Joemailman]

Aaron Donald retiring at just age 32? I don't recall much history of injuries either. Good news for the rest of the league.

Good points about the Bears. They don't still suck for no reason hahahaha.

Donald has been pretty banged up the last couple of years. His sack numbers have been down. Missed 6 games in 2022. Can't be easy getting double-teamed as much as he is.

[pittstang5]

Just heard Kenny Pickett traded to the Eagles.

[NewsBruin]

Just heard Kenny Pickett traded to the Eagles.

My favorite part was reading "The Steelers decided to move Pickett after he poorly handled the arrival of veteran Russell Wilson, sources told Gerry Dulac of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette."

[Joemailman]

Are the Justin Fields to the Steelers rumors now coming back?

[pittstang5]

Are the Justin Fields to the Steelers rumors now coming back?

Yep

https://www.nbcsportschicago.com/nfl/chicago-bears/bears-analysis/kenny-pickett-trade-could-give-bears-lifeline-in-search-for-justin-fields-trade-partner/547376/

[run pMc]

Retiring at 32 isn't that early for NFL, until recently 35 was incredibly old in the NFL.
Some DL can last a long time in the league but Donald is undersized and constantly doubled. There was talk last year and possibly the year before that about him retiring. I'm not that surprised.

Pickett had to know he was on thin ice after his performance last year. He was going to be a backup in PIT or PHI, I guess it's PHI. They didn't get much for him.
With that in mind, if the Bears think they are getting much for Justin Fields in a trade they are delusional.

[texaspackerbacker]

As I said in one of these threads, the Bears say they are sticking with Fields as their QB1 - a surprisingly smart decision by the team famous for suckage.

[run pMc]

If the Bears keep Fields, I assume they are trading out of the top spot for a king's ransom. That would be worrisome to me, since all the picks they would get for trading out would net them a number of talented players.

I think they take Caleb Williams. If they don't trade down and end up taking Marvin Jr. I will be surprised, and WAS and NE will be very, very happy. With WAS trading Sam Howell to SEA it's pretty clear they are taking a QB.

[Joemailman]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GIvLu3cb0AAHsfT?format=jpg&name=medium

[KYPack]

The Steeler org has never been known to do packages of picks.

League scuttlebutt is that the best offer for Fields has been a two.

Dunno if they play after getting Russ.

Surprised that they dealt Pickett, guess he moaned about the Wilson deal.

[texaspackerbacker]

I kinda feel dirty strategizing for the Bears, not quite as much as for the even worse enemy in Minnesota, but here goes:

They might trade down if you believe the idea that several QBs are the most valuable commodities in the draft. I don't believe that. Caleb Williams in particular is overrated and a bust on the way to happening IMO. Maye? Penix? Nix? pretty much ditto. Meh at best for any of them. So what should the Bears do with the several high picks they might end up with? Load up on D, maybe; I've heard they're not very good in the O Line also. And even with Keenan Allen and Swift, they probably could use WR and RB help. The bottom line, though, is that whatever they do, the Bears will still suck - because they're the Bears. But with Fields and a big influx of new talent, it might be a little harder for their coaches to screw things up haahhaha.

[run pMc]

Bringing in a bunch of old guys like Byard and Allen tells me that the coaches and GM need to win desperately to keep their jobs. After 4 years of playing, Justin Fields is not a good NFL QB. It's extremely unlikely that will change, even with more talent around him.
If they trade Fields and draft Caleb Williams, they basically have a QB coming into a coaching regime that is likely on its way out the door...bad for QB development. CHI is also bad at developing QBs period. As long as they don't solve their QB problem, they will suck.


They might trade down if you believe the idea that several QBs are the most valuable commodities in the draft. I don't believe that.

Caleb Williams and Drake Maye are easily better prospects than anyone who was drafted last year. Way too early to call them busts when they haven't even been drafted yet lol. Trouble is, CHI and WAS are at the top of the board as of today, and those organizations are train wrecks, so they will likely ruin those players. I think Jayden Daniels is a scary prospect - very boom or bust. Never liked Nix, although he improved as he aged into an old man at Oregon. I actually like Penix but he's old too and has an injury history. McCarthy is another interesting prospect but I wonder about the mental makeup. All these guys are better prospects than Kenny Pickett. I'd bet at least half of the top 6 QBs this year would have been taken ahead of Levis, Young or Stroud last year.

It's a good QB class. I'm not the only one who thinks this. The consensus draft board agrees.

[Joemailman]

Adam Schefter
@AdamSchefter

Bears are trading Justin Fields for a 2025 6th-round pick that goes to a 4th-round pick based on playtime, per sources.

[Teamcheez1]

Right move. How anyone thought Fields was the QB of the future in Chicago is beyond me. He doesn’t have the “it” factor.

[Joemailman]

Right move. How anyone thought Fields was the QB of the future in Chicago is beyond me. He doesn’t have the “it” factor.

A lot less than what they were originally hoping to get for him though. Bears don't have a pick in rounds 2, 5, 6 and 7.

[Fritz]

A lot less than what they were originally hoping to get for him though. Bears don't have a pick in rounds 2, 5, 6 and 7.

Two things: first, to whom has he been traded?

And secondly, for a team that is so far from contention, about to start over with a rookie QB, WTF are they doing trading for 32 year old wide receivers and signing old running backs and ending up after fleecing Carolina last year with no picks in rounds two, five, six, and seven?

THE BEAR STILL SUCK.

HARD.

[Joemailman]

Two things: first, to whom has he been traded?

And secondly, for a team that is so far from contention, about to start over with a rookie QB, WTF are they doing trading for 32 year old wide receivers and signing old running backs and ending up after fleecing Carolina last year with no picks in rounds two, five, six, and seven?

THE BEAR STILL SUCK.

HARD.

Pittsburgh
Because they're the Bears

[QBME]

Right move. How anyone thought Fields was the QB of the future in Chicago is beyond me. He doesn’t have the “it” factor.

As many (maybe most) of you folks know, I have a very limited football IQ.
I can tell you this - Justin Fields has all the tools to be an elite NFL quarter back. He was drafted by the Bears (bad luck), "developed" under three different OC's and systems. He is loved and respected in the locker room.

Justin Fields is broken.
Best case scenario is he gets to a team that has a season or two, with a genuine QB coach and OC to fix him.

In todays NFL world thats not probable.
Which sucks.

[sharpe1027]

Pittsburgh
Because they're the Bears

This. Also, whatever QB they pick, it will be the wrong one.

[Joemailman]

As many (maybe most) of you folks know, I have a very limited football IQ.
I can tell you this - Justin Fields has all the tools to be an elite NFL quarter back. He was drafted by the Bears (bad luck), "developed" under three different OC's and systems. He is loved and respected in the locker room.

Justin Fields is broken.
Best case scenario is he gets to a team that has a season or two, with a genuine QB coach and OC to fix him.

In todays NFL world thats not probable.
Which sucks.

Pittsburgh ain't that team though. And I don't think it would matter. I don't think Fields can read defenses well enough to be great. But there certainly will be teams in the NFL this year with starting QB's worse than Fields.

[Frozen Tundra]

Pittsburgh ain't that team though. And I don't think it would matter. I don't think Fields can read defenses well enough to be great. But there certainly will be teams in the NFL this year with starting QB's worse than Fields.

Plus, you know there's going to be drama, friction, and personality conflict in the quarterback room with Russell Wilson as the starter. That atmosphere's sure not going to help Fields rebuild himself.

Still, a hell of a deal for Pittsburgh. As much as a wild card as Russell Wilson is, they got an at least somehwta capable backup for as little as a 6th-Rounder. The Bears were desperate to be rid of him.

Dman, I'm going to miss him though.

[texaspackerbacker]

hahahaha It looks like I was wrong. The Bears really are that stupid. It's no accident they still suck, I guess.

[QBME]

hahahaha It looks like I was wrong. The Bears really are that stupid. It's no accident they still suck, I guess.
Truer words were never spoke

[Frozen Tundra]

Truer words were never spoke

3 sentences, 3 truths. Of course, anytime someone's post includes some variation of "Bears still suck", they're going to come away with points no matter what else they say. There is no curve to that scoring system.

[Fritz]

Pittsburgh
Because they're the Bears

Weird for Pittsburgh, too, in a way. So . . . he's the backup to Russell Wilson? The Steelers seem to have two broken QB's now.

Boy, the Bears really are weird. They are really pulling some head-scratching moves.

[Patler]

So, already the Bears will be on their third starting QB during the Jordan Love Era in GB.
Some things never change.

[MadScientist]

Weird for Pittsburgh, too, in a way. So . . . he's the backup to Russell Wilson? The Steelers seem to have two broken QB's now.

Boy, the Bears really are weird. They are really pulling some head-scratching moves.

I don't understand the Steelers on this one, other than getting another limp piece of spaghetti to throw at a wall. They need a good draft pick to develop and not a failed Bears QB.

The Bears are just stupid. Their coach needs to win now to keep his job, but the Bears have no QB and a ton of draft capital, which puts them a couple years away, if they have a competent and stable coaching staff. What they have is a recipe to ruin the best QB in the draft.

[run pMc]

The Steelers hired Arthur Smith as OC, he got Tannehill productive for TEN back in the day. If they can get Fields to sit for a year Smith might be able to revive Fields' career. It's 50/50. Russell Wilson is a weird move but they need a competent QB and Pickett wasn't it. Wilson comes dirt cheap for PIT and might be a bit humbled after DEN, who knows. He started out trash but looked better from the GB game on so there might be something there still. I doubt Tomlin puts up with a lot of Wilson's weird shit.

Not surprised CHI dealt Fields, I think that was the general belief. Don't see how they trade down or not take a QB now. And yes, they have a recipe to ruin a good QB talent.

[red]

So, already the Bears will be on their third starting QB during the Jordan Love Era in GB.
Some things never change.

part of me is a bit worried that the bears are gonna draft the top QB in the draft. the other part of me realizes that this isn't the first time they've drafting a QB high, and they've managed to screw them all up so far

plus celeb doesn't strike me as elite, and he has a very high opinion of himself, and might become a headache, like refusing to play for them, or demanding to be part owner (yes, he did say this was a requirement for the team drafting him, even though its against the rules)

[Joemailman]

De'vondre Campbell had some things to say, mainly about Packers defensive coaching staff. Here's the link to his twitter account if you want to see everything he's responding to. https://twitter.com/Came_Along_Way

De'Vondre Campbell
@Came_Along_Way

Listen man.. There’s so much I could say but for the longest I just kept it to myself and kept taking the blame. I don’t work for the organization anymore so anytime I see some false information I’m going to correct it and tell the truth. If you don’t wanna hear the truth sorry


De'Vondre Campbell
@Came_Along_Way

Why yall keep saying I trashed the Packers?? I never ONCE said anything negative about the organization. Best organization I’ve ever been apart of at this point but it’s some coaches I lost ALL respect for


De'Vondre Campbell
@Came_Along_Way

Fast forward to 2022, 2023 season I tried to be a team guy and play within the system and do what they asked “Be more visual on QB and not look up routes” “Back up from LOS so I’m not pressing every WR or TE” Look at what happened. They had me, Quay out there looking clueless smh



De'Vondre Campbell
@Came_Along_Way

The organization didn’t even call me to ask if I wanted to take a pay cut. They just released me after going in the media and saying me and Aaron jones were apart of the future plans. They could’ve just told me the truth. I could easily be bitter but I’m not.


De'Vondre Campbell
@Came_Along_Way

Because we ran a split safety system meaning we use our safeties a lot in the run fit so if I shoot my gap before the safety triggers we can get gashed so most of the time me and quay were just tryna buy time for our safeties to get there. We don’t have MOFC structure



De'Vondre Campbell
@Came_Along_Way

You wanna know why we played better??? Because I started going and having private meetings with Matt telling him we needed to be more aggressive. We needed more man and we needed to blitz more and what happened when they listened to me. WE PLAYED WELL AND WON ITS NO COINCIDENCE


De'Vondre Campbell
@Came_Along_Way

I love all the fans that love me. The 3 years I spent in GB were definitely special and I appreciate all the support you guys have given me over the last 3 years. Hope you guys enjoy your Sunday

[ThunderDan]

De'vondre Campbell had some things to say, mainly about Packers defensive coaching staff. Here's the link to his twitter account if you want to see everything he's responding to. https://twitter.com/Came_Along_Way

De'Vondre Campbell
@Came_Along_Way

Listen man.. There’s so much I could say but for the longest I just kept it to myself and kept taking the blame. I don’t work for the organization anymore so anytime I see some false information I’m going to correct it and tell the truth. If you don’t wanna hear the truth sorry


De'Vondre Campbell
@Came_Along_Way

Why yall keep saying I trashed the Packers?? I never ONCE said anything negative about the organization. Best organization I’ve ever been apart of at this point but it’s some coaches I lost ALL respect for


De'Vondre Campbell
@Came_Along_Way

Fast forward to 2022, 2023 season I tried to be a team guy and play within the system and do what they asked “Be more visual on QB and not look up routes” “Back up from LOS so I’m not pressing every WR or TE” Look at what happened. They had me, Quay out there looking clueless smh



De'Vondre Campbell
@Came_Along_Way

The organization didn’t even call me to ask if I wanted to take a pay cut. They just released me after going in the media and saying me and Aaron jones were apart of the future plans. They could’ve just told me the truth. I could easily be bitter but I’m not.


De'Vondre Campbell
@Came_Along_Way

Because we ran a split safety system meaning we use our safeties a lot in the run fit so if I shoot my gap before the safety triggers we can get gashed so most of the time me and quay were just tryna buy time for our safeties to get there. We don’t have MOFC structure



De'Vondre Campbell
@Came_Along_Way

You wanna know why we played better??? Because I started going and having private meetings with Matt telling him we needed to be more aggressive. We needed more man and we needed to blitz more and what happened when they listened to me. WE PLAYED WELL AND WON ITS NO COINCIDENCE


De'Vondre Campbell
@Came_Along_Way

I love all the fans that love me. The 3 years I spent in GB were definitely special and I appreciate all the support you guys have given me over the last 3 years. Hope you guys enjoy your Sunday
Wow, that is shocking.

I guess that reinforces some of the things we were seeing over and over, game after game during the first 2/3 of the season.

[Joemailman]

Wow, that is shocking.

I guess that reinforces some of the things we were seeing over and over, game after game during the first 2/3 of the season.

Rasul traded half way through the season. Campbell obviously not happy. Jaire having an off year and then suspended a game. Kind of amazing they avoided a total breakdown on defense. I suspect MLF knew after the TB game he needed a new DC. Just didn't want to do it during the season, which I think was the right move.

[red]

unreal stuff

don't even know what to say about it all, other then it makes sense

and we all knew the defensive staff was a complete fucking joke. its nice to see some players finally coming out and confirming it. too bad it has to be from "former players"

sucks that it seems like some of the guys who might have had a problem with the shit scheme were punished or removed from the team (douglas, campbell, alexander)

shame on lefleur for letting that crap go on so long, but good on him for FINALLY stepping in and doing something about the mess

[NewsBruin]

I don't understand the Steelers on this one, other than getting another limp piece of spaghetti to throw at a wall. They need a good draft pick to develop and not a failed Bears QB.

It's like when I buy too many groceries that will go bad before I can cook them BUT THEY WERE ON SALE!

Pittsbugh needs an above-replacement-level quarterback. Russ is One Year Veteran Cheap. Justin is One Year Rookie Cheap. But Pittsburgh has to decide if they want to exercise Fields' $25M extension two weeks after offseason workouts start, one week after the draft, and two months before training camp. Their yay-or-nay decision is going to determine which one of them is a lame-duck quarterback.

Or they could use a Day 1-2 pick on a QB and make both feel like lame ducks.

[Frozen Tundra]

sucks that it seems like some of the guys who might have had a problem with the shit scheme were punished or removed from the team (douglas, campbell, alexander)

shame on lefleur for letting that crap go on so long, but good on him for FINALLY stepping in and doing something about the mess

I remember a lot of us were starting to suspect that there was maybe some ugly business going on behind those closed doors the last month and a half or so, but I'm wondering now if it may have been worse than we imagined. Campbell clearly has a hell of a lot he wants to get off his chest; pretty good bet he's not the only one.

I wonder if we'll hear more. Players who are staying are certainly not going to open up as much as that on the record, and it doesn't look like we're going to lose many more in free agency. Maybe Savage will have something to say down the road (although he doesn't seem like the type), and of course in a few months there will be camp cuts. I think our best chance at getting bits of gossip and juicy hints will be as the season unfolds, we'll hear players say things like, "yeah, we really balled out, everybody knew what their assignment was and how we were supposed to do it. Been a while since things felt like that around here."

If it really was this bad, I'm all the more impressed with how much the team as a whole accomplished tis season.

And I agree with you - shame on Lafleur for letting this turn into what it really now appears to have turned into. One thing I've seen about Lafleur that I respect and admire is that he does seem to learn from his mistakes, even if it sometimes take a while. Hopefully he learned a big, big lesson from this one. Being a head coach is pretty damned complicated, and one of the true measures of whether someone is going to be good at it is how they learn from their mistakes and move on. Because one way or the other, they're going to make a hell of a lot of them, and if they have to keep making the same ones over and over again because they don't learn, their job is going to be a lot harder than it needs to be.

Especially ones like this, because this one appears to have been a big one.

[Frozen Tundra]

I don't understand the Steelers on this one, other than getting another limp piece of spaghetti to throw at a wall. They need a good draft pick to develop and not a failed Bears QB.
.

It probably depends on their strategy for building a team over the next several years. Wilson's obviously not a longterm option, and they don't draft early enough to snag a top QB prospect. So the obvious question becomes, what longterm solution do they have in mind?

They may feel they don't have many other options, or any quick solutions. They're consistently good enough that there's no "Top 10" draft pick in the foreseeable future, so it may be that they've decided the only way they can fill that position is through free agency or draft and develop a Day 2 or late 1st Round project. Maybe they're thinking that Fields is at the very least a guy who can keep the team competitive (and the fan base content) if Wilson goes "worst case scenario" on them, and at best a guy who can keep the team above .500 while they work on solving the overal QB problem. Which may be the best they can realistically hope for.

It's not as though Fields doesn't have at least some value and usefullness. He sucks, but it's not because he has no skills - he actually has a lot of NFL-level tools. It's just that he's been a Bear his entire career, and never learned how to reliably play the position at a consistent level. Maybe they think they have a chance to get something out of him that the Bears were never able to do, at least keep them competitive for their fans while they pray for rain.

But yeah, you're right - their future is bleak. Going to be very hard for them to reload; a complete rebuild may be their only way forward. Not an easy path for any GM to accept and commit to.

[sharpe1027]

Maybe the Steelers are just going to trade Fields for more than the gave up? I suspect Fields would have more value once the draft finishes and someone doesn't get their guy, or after a QB1 goes down with a injury

That would be pretty cold.

[texaspackerbacker]

The Bears reached a new level of stupid even for them by trading Fields, and trading him so cheap just compounds it. Yes, I sort of agree that the Steelers could and maybe would retrade him kinda like house-flipping. The more likely scenario, though, is that they let Wilson and Fields compete, and Fields wins as their QB1. Meanwhile, the Bears go with Caleb Williams or one of the other busts waiting to happen.

[run pMc]

The Bears reached a new level of stupid even for them by trading Fields, and trading him so cheap just compounds it. Yes, I sort of agree that the Steelers could and maybe would retrade him kinda like house-flipping. The more likely scenario, though, is that they let Wilson and Fields compete, and Fields wins as their QB1. Meanwhile, the Bears go with Caleb Williams or one of the other busts waiting to happen.

Why do you think Justin Fields is better than Russell Wilson?

CHI has a GM/HC who are on borrowed time and a culture for not developing QBs. I think anything they did would be problematic. If they had any capacity to develop a QB - and maybe they discover it - they draft a QB, let him sit for at least 8-10 games (if not more) and shove Fields out there to play QB in the meantime. Then you either trade Fields at the deadline or let his contract expire and pray for a comp pick if you don't trade him. They aren't considered contenders for the SB, might as well figure out what you have and try to develop your young talent.

As it is, they are definitely taking a QB and will start them right away. I'm not sure if they have the support structure to succeed. I hope not since it's the Bears but I also hate to see a young player's career get smashed by a garbage organization. (The consolation is at least they'll be very rich)

[Joemailman]

Maybe the Steelers are just going to trade Fields for more than the gave up? I suspect Fields would have more value once the draft finishes and someone doesn't get their guy, or after a QB1 goes down with a injury

That would be pretty cold.

Wilson has a 1year contract. Fields in the last year of his contract, unless Steelers pick up 5th year option, which they won't. I think Steelers will use this year to decide which one they want to keep, and which one they want to discard at the end of the year.

[sharpe1027]

Wilson has a 1year contract. Fields in the last year of his contract, unless Steelers pick up 5th year option, which they won't. I think Steelers will use this year to decide which one they want to keep, and which one they want to discard at the end of the year.

Yeah, that's likely the case. I mostly thought it was an intriguing thought exercise. Trade for him at below market value. Talk him up, hope he does well in preseason and then trade him once his value goes back up for more. It's like flipping a house with only a few low cost cosmetic changes.

[Fritz]

Yeah, that's likely the case. I mostly thought it was an intriguing thought exercise. Trade for him at below market value. Talk him up, hope he does well in preseason and then trade him once his value goes back up for more. It's like flipping a house with only a few low cost cosmetic changes.

Or . . . . .

https://www.framedart.com/product-images/AWAAQAHQ-R1100452-AEAEAGOFDM.jpg

[bobblehead]

So, already the Bears will be on their third starting QB during the Jordan Love Era in GB.
Some things never change.

Hey Rocky...watch me pull a Rabbit out of my hat.....

[bobblehead]

My first guess is that Aurther Smith thinks he may be able salvage Fields if he can work with him for a year with no pressure in games. The physical talent is undeniable.

My second guess is that Campbell is about 30% sour grapes over being cut and being hung out to dry covering a really good WR one on one. He is about 70% right that Barry fucking sucked and was the sole reason for anything bad happening on the planet.

[Fritz]

Now I want to know which Packerrat was actuallly DeVondre Campbell.

Gotta be someone who doesn't know grammar very well. That eliminates about two-thirds of the Packerrats. UNLESS Devondre's tweets - or whatever they're called now - are deliberately poorly written so he can cover up his Packerrats identity.

Okay, so which one of you is Devondre Campbell?

[texaspackerbacker]

Why do you think Justin Fields is better than Russell Wilson?

CHI has a GM/HC who are on borrowed time and a culture for not developing QBs. I think anything they did would be problematic. If they had any capacity to develop a QB - and maybe they discover it - they draft a QB, let him sit for at least 8-10 games (if not more) and shove Fields out there to play QB in the meantime. Then you either trade Fields at the deadline or let his contract expire and pray for a comp pick if you don't trade him. They aren't considered contenders for the SB, might as well figure out what you have and try to develop your young talent.

As it is, they are definitely taking a QB and will start them right away. I'm not sure if they have the support structure to succeed. I hope not since it's the Bears but I also hate to see a young player's career get smashed by a garbage organization. (The consolation is at least they'll be very rich)

His arm and his legs. Wilson had great mobility and a fairly strong arm 5 or 10 years ago but he sure didn't display much of that last year in Denver. Fields' intelligence level has been questioned, but he's probably second only to Lamar Jackson physically. And the brain thing could just as well have been either Bear coaching or media exaggeration.

I agree with you, they are almost certainly gonna take a QB at the top of the draft. I also agree about that "culture for not developing QBs". However, this current vaunted crop of QBs to me don't seem all that hot anyway.

The major fact you forgot to post is, of course, that THE BEARS STILL SUCK.

[Frozen Tundra]

His arm and his legs. Wilson had great mobility and a fairly strong arm 5 or 10 years ago but he sure didn't display much of that last year in Denver. Fields' intelligence level has been questioned, but he's probably second only to Lamar Jackson physically. And the brain thing could just as well have been either Bear coaching or media exaggeration.


It's not "media exaggeration"; just watch the man play with your own eyes. You don't need the evil media to tell you whether or not he can play football, he shows you himself, firsthand. All you need to do is watch.

It isn't even his intelligence, per se. He's reportedly a very, very bright guy. The problem appears to be that he simply can't make good decisions under pressure. That happens, sometimes. He reminds me a little of Daunte Culpepper - fantastic tool set, but when the ball is snapped, everything that happens the next 2-5 seconds happens faster than he's able to figure out. Unlike Fields, Culppepper was dumb as a brick to begin with, of course, so the comparison only goes so far, but the result is similar - the game just happens faster than they're capable of processing it.

There's no shame in it. Playing quarterback in the NFL is one of the most difficult jobs in sports, and only a tiny fraction of men ever truly master it. There are a lot of guys with enough raw athletic ability and basic intelligence that they can get by at quarterback all the way through college, but the NFL is a whole different world. I'm a really bright guy too in terms of IQ and various demonstrated abilities, and a really good athlete - football, hockey, and basketball, all sports where you need to be able to think very quickly. And they always came naturally to me. But playing quarterback?? Never in a million years could I have even dreamed of playing QB in the NFL, anymore than I could sprout wings and fly to the Moon.

I've sometimes wondered what might have happened if a guy like Fields had come up through Green Bay's system; if he'd gone a year earlier, and we'd drafted him instead of Love. Would 3 years of Tom Clements standing next to him on the sideline every Sunday watching Aaron Rodgers have made things any different? I dunno. We never will. But I think it might have been possible.

[texaspackerbacker]

I say again, Fields is a good QB, the second best running QB after Lamar Jackson, and a pretty decent passer too. Have YOU seen him play? Whoever the Bears end up with will be worse than Fields, and I don't just mean the first year.

You did stumble onto an acorn of truth, though. If Fields had ended up with the Packers, he just might have been comparable to Love. Part of it is intelligence, though, even if only football intelligence, and he might not be at the level of Love on that.

[run pMc]

With several years of bench sitting, Fields might have turned out. In college you could see Love going thru his progressions, Fields was a one or maybe two read guy most of the time - he had the better talent at OL and receiver than his opponents 90% of the time.

Fields is unquestionably talented. I think the mental processing part of it - which as FT pointed out is incredibly difficult to do as a pro - is where he struggles. He has made some very small improvement there since entering the league.

Even last year with DJ Moore a large percentage of his throws were within 5 yards of the LOS. That is not an elite QB. He fumbles a lot and is sacked a very high percentage, both of which you largely have to put on the QB, not the OL. None of the metrics indicate that he has been or will be better than league average.

Yeah he has an arm. So did Kyle Boller. Vince Young could throw and run too, and was super talented. Don't confuse physical talent with being able to play QB. Nobody confused Brady or Manning with great athletes; it was all between the ears with them.

Sure, maybe Smith can get something out of Fields with a year of tutoring. He's worth taking a flier on, but best case you get a QB guru who can teach and cook up a half-field read offense like they did with Mike Vick. I just don't see that happening, he's not that level of talent, and defenses are too good for that
.
Look, you can love the tools, but as someone who loves wins, I don't know how you can pretend that a 35% winning percentage (and a 60% completion rate) makes a good QB. This guy is a more athletic Zach Wilson.

[Fritz]

With several years of bench sitting, Fields might have turned out. In college you could see Love going thru his progressions, Fields was a one or maybe two read guy most of the time - he had the better talent at OL and receiver than his opponents 90% of the time.

Fields is unquestionably talented. I think the mental processing part of it - which as FT pointed out is incredibly difficult to do as a pro - is where he struggles. He has made some very small improvement there since entering the league.

Even last year with DJ Moore a large percentage of his throws were within 5 yards of the LOS. That is not an elite QB. He fumbles a lot and is sacked a very high percentage, both of which you largely have to put on the QB, not the OL. None of the metrics indicate that he has been or will be better than league average.

Yeah he has an arm. So did Kyle Boller. Vince Young could throw and run too, and was super talented. Don't confuse physical talent with being able to play QB. Nobody confused Brady or Manning with great athletes; it was all between the ears with them.

Sure, maybe Smith can get something out of Fields with a year of tutoring. He's worth taking a flier on, but best case you get a QB guru who can teach and cook up a half-field read offense like they did with Mike Vick. I just don't see that happening, he's not that level of talent, and defenses are too good for that
.
Look, you can love the tools, but as someone who loves wins, I don't know how you can pretend that a 35% winning percentage (and a 60% completion rate) makes a good QB. This guy is a more athletic Zach Wilson.

Poor Zach Wilson. Second overall pick just three years ago, and now he's the marker for comparisons about suckiness.

He and Sam Darnold (third player selected in 2018 by . . . the Jest!) are the poster boys for "How to Fuck Up Your Very High Draft Pick QB."

By golly, the Jest may best da Bears in that category. After all, Trubitchsky was the second overall pick, but Justin Fields was "only" the eleventh overall pick.

[texaspackerbacker]

I'm done defending Fields, and I do not wish him all the best. He's not Packer; He's not Badger; So fuck him. But I think ya'all detractors are totally wrong about his ability.

[Joemailman]

NFL owners considering eliminating hip drop tackle. NFLPA opposed.

NFLPA statement on proposal to ban the hip-drop tackle:

"The players oppose any attempt by the NFL to implement a rule prohibiting a 'swivel hip-drop' tackle. While the NFLPA remains committed to improvements to our game with health and safety in mind, we cannot support a rule change that causes confusion for us as players, for coaches, for officials and especially, for fans. We call on the NFL, again, to reconsider implementing this rule."

[texaspackerbacker]

I Googled this and watched the little video. It looked and sounded a lot like what young players are taught to do if you're trying to bring down somebody bigger than you. It seems to me to be just another step toward watering down the game in the name of safety. I'm against the new rule. The fact that the players association is against it should be the determining factor.

[run pMc]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/graphics/2023/11/22/nfl-what-is-a-hip-drop-tackle/71660167007/

[smuggler]

Fields is a good QB, the second best running QB after Lamar Jackson, and a pretty decent passer too.

He's a good football player and a decent quarterback in a world with good quarterbacks and great quarterbacks. If Fields were a different player from the neck up, teams would be climbing over each other to get him, but no one wants to fight over a bottom-10 quarterback.

[Frozen Tundra]

I Googled this and watched the little video. It looked and sounded a lot like what young players are taught to do if you're trying to bring down somebody bigger than you. It seems to me to be just another step toward watering down the game in the name of safety. I'm against the new rule. The fact that the players association is against it should be the determining factor.

I don't know if I'd go so far as to say that it is the determinative factor, but it certainly is an indicator. Their role is to look out for the players, keep them healthy and extend their careers, and the argument is that the "hip-drop tackle" puts the players at risk. Which, yeah.... it does. It's a violent game.

This is one of the ways I was taught to bring down a big running back with a head of steam when I was a linebacker, if that's how I had hold of the dude. If they ban that tackle, it's going to be one more rule that's subjectively and arbitrarily enforced, and people will be even more pissed at the referees. Teams will make a stop on third down and see it turned into a first down with a stupid and controversial penalty. and everyone will be on the warpath.

[sharpe1027]

I don't get the hip drop definition. If you can't use your body weight to bring down someone from behind, you can't really bring them down at all from behind.

[bobblehead]

I don't get the hip drop definition. If you can't use your body weight to bring down someone from behind, you can't really bring them down at all from behind.

This was my basic thought after I learned what a hip drop tackle was/is. I had never heard the term in like 40+ years of playing/watching football. If I'm fast enough I guess I could jump on him and ride him like a pony instead. How the fuck can you bring a player down from behind without a) horsecollaring him or b) hip dropping him. Will we get an NBA breakaway rule? If all defensive players are behind the player we will just rule it a TD. Breakaway speed no longer relevant.

[MadtownPacker]

I don't get the hip drop definition. If you can't use your body weight to bring down someone from behind, you can't really bring them down at all from behind.
Then you get dramatic highlight TD$ when the player breaks loose and takes it to the house.

[run pMc]

in 2030 tackling will be outlawed and it will just be flag football.

Look, I don't like seeing players get injured and falling on the back of someone's legs is dangerous, but the rules increasingly limit a defense in what they can do to stop a player or an offense...and it's a little frustrating. Can you hip drop tackle without smashing your weight on a player's ankles?

.If you can barely play defense, there is no point in doing anything except drafting offense, or better yet just make it like the Pro Bowl where nobody bothers playing defense and nobody watches it.

[Joemailman]

NFL officials responded to criticism of the proposed rule change:

According to competition committee chairman Rich McKay, the proposed rule was written to address only a subset of the rugby tackling style that has spread around the NFL in recent years. It calls for a 15-yard penalty if a defender grabs the runner with both hands or wraps the runner with both arms and unweights himself by swiveling and dropping his hips and/or lower body, landing on and trapping the runner's leg[s] at or below the knee."

But both McKay and Vincent strongly implied Thursday that the rule would likely be enforced in ways similar to that of the "use of helmet" rule, which typically leads to warning letters and fines in the week following a game rather than by flags during the game.

"We are very quick to say, 'Listen it's hard to see all of the elements of the hip drop,' in one continuous action," McKay said. "So the number one thing we had to do is get a rule on the books that we can enforce on Monday and try to get the technique out of the game."

[Fritz]

Then you get dramatic highlight TD$ when the player breaks loose and takes it to the house.

I'd rather see this. Every fuckin' time.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqbcj0dg5AE