Possible rules change to Kick-offs. Thoughts?

[George Cumby]

From PFT:

"The XFL is coming to the NFL. Sort of. If at least 24 teams vote for it.

The details have emerged as to the proposal that will be made to the owners later this month in Orlando. As crafted, it potentially revolutionizes the play.

Via Albert Breer of SI.com, all eleven members of the kicking team will line up on the opponent’s 40 yard line. Some of the members of the receiving team will be aligned five yards away, some will be up to 10 yards away. The kick will be required to land between the 20 and the goal line.

If the ball goes into the end zone, possession starts at the 35. If it doesn’t make it to the 20, possession begins at the 40. If it hits inside the 20 and rolls into the end zone, the drive starts at the 20.

No one can move (other than the kick returner, with up to two of them back for the ball) until the ball is caught or lands in the 0-20 landing zone.

The overriding goal is to remove high-speed collisions between players running in opposite directions. This approach packs everyone together, reducing the forces that will be applied, in theory. It also resurrects the kickoff as a viable, must-see play.

Still, for a league that hates (mainly because it struggles to envision) unintended consequences, this seems like something that could go a bunch of different ways. The kicking team could keep multiple players at the 40 or even drop some of them deeper into the field, giving them a chance to tackle the returner if/when he breaks through the first line of defenders.

Teams also would no longer need a kickoff specialist who can bang the ball 75 yards. There will be a premium on placement within the landing zone, possibly via a line drive calculated to land within 20 to 40 yards of the kick and force the returner to handle it or risk having it skitter into the end zone. Or, alternatively, a team could find a non-kicker who can drop it into the landing zone, giving them an eleventh traditional defender who would participate in the pursuit of the man who catches the kick.

There are so many ways this can go. Coupled with the fact that it limits the intentional onside kick to teams trailing in the fourth quarter and eliminates the surprise onside kick, the Commissioner might have some arms to twist to get to 24."

I have yet to watch a single play of the XFL, I've already wasted too much of my time on Earth watching football, but this sounds like a good way to change a boring play into something chaotically fun. I'm all for it.

What say the PackerRats?

[sharpe1027]

The onside kick Boogeyman is overplayed. They can completely do away with it as far as I'm concerned.

It's boring to watch the ball get kicked into the end zone so often and there's no real good reason to have such a high risk for the players. Better to do something than be afraid to change and just stick with a bad situation.

[run pMc]

Ddin't McCarthy surprise the Cowboys or Patriots with a beginning of 3Q onside kick from Mason?

Sean Payton did pretty well with an onside kick in the Superb Owl too. Interesting how they want to do away with it, I'm kind of meh. Kickoffs are basically just a boring intermission between commercials.

[Cobra Kai]

Fuck all this pussy bullshit. Return kickoffs back to how they were 10+ years ago. Safety be damned...

[sharpe1027]

Fuck all this pussy bullshit. Return kickoffs back to how they were 10+ years ago. Safety be damned...

They don't need helmets and pads. Fucking pussies. The forward pass is another innovation that moved away from hard nosed real football. Get rid!

[NewsBruin]

I'm bumfuzzled about the emphasis on "no surprise onside kicks." Has there ever been a case where a coach acts like Yosimite Sam because the opposing team surprised him with an onside kick ? (It seems like soemthing Mike McCarthy would do.) Is there even such a thing as a surprise onside kick? Especially with the requirement that you have five on each side of the kicker, there doesn't seem like an exploitable ability to overwhelm the return upmen with a Crash Team and a Recovering Team.

Maybe the league doesn't want any onsides-related neck injuries, but having a surprise onside kick work out for the leading team in the third quarter seems like the lowest-priority problem for the league to address.

[texaspackerbacker]

Fuck all this pussy bullshit. Return kickoffs back to how they were 10+ years ago. Safety be damned...

Sarcasm? Either way, I agree. This safety crap is stupid. For the tens of millions these guys get paid, they should be at risk of life and limb and brain. If they don't want to take the risk, they can get a regular job.

My suggestion for the onside kick thing is give the desperate kicking team a chance for one play, maybe 1st and 25 from their own 25. If they get the 25 yards, they keep the ball. If the defenders stop them, then the defenders get the ball in plus territory. Otherwise, the kicking team just kicks it the old fashioned way.

[sharpe1027]

Sarcasm? Either way, I agree. This safety crap is stupid. For the tens of millions these guys get paid, they should be at risk of life and limb and brain. If they don't want to take the risk, they can get a regular job.

My suggestion for the onside kick thing is give the desperate kicking team a chance for one play, maybe 1st and 25 from their own 25. If they get the 25 yards, they keep the ball. If the defenders stop them, then the defenders get the ball in plus territory. Otherwise, the kicking team just kicks it the old fashioned way.

Paying a lot of money doesn't give an employer license to do whatever they fuck they want to their employees.

Also, if everyone's making a shit ton of money and they can still reduce injuries then why not?

[texaspackerbacker]

Having better equipment for safety is one thing, but radically modifying the rules and changing the game, arguably making it less interesting, that is bad. And it isn't a matter of an employer doing "whatever they fuck they want to their employees". It's a matter of preserving an interesting game for the fans, and making that a higher priority than the stupid safety thing. I say again, if any player thinks the risk is too big, he can be like Chris Borland and just quitand walk away from that shit ton of money.

[sharpe1027]

Having better equipment for safety is one thing, but radically modifying the rules and changing the game, arguably making it less interesting, that is bad. And it isn't a matter of an employer doing "whatever they fuck they want to their employees". It's a matter of preserving an interesting game for the fans, and making that a higher priority than the stupid safety thing. I say again, if any player thinks the risk is too big, he can be like Chris Borland and just quitand walk away from that shit ton of money.

Or, hear me out, the owners and players work together to make the game safer for people playing by making measured incremental changes..

[Fritz]

Hmm. I'm going to have to have a rule book by my side to cover all the contingencies in this proposal. The game is being more and more arcane.

"If the ball lands between the one and the twenty yard lines, but is between the hashmarks, it cannot be returned but must be placed at the spot the returner touched it, unless, that is, one of the returner's feet is at least six inches outside the outer boundary of said hash mark."

So they're trying to spice it up, which is good, but man, the detailed knowledge required to even comprehend what's going on is going to cost the NFL at some point.

[NewsBruin]

Sarcasm? Either way, I agree. This safety crap is stupid. For the tens of millions these guys get paid, they should be at risk of life and limb and brain. If they don't want to take the risk, they can get a regular job.

If you're getting paid tens of millions, or even ones of millions, the only time you're on the field for a kickoff is the once-per-season Crucial Onsides Hands Team, at most. I doubt half of the guys on either side of the kickoff league-wide (okay, not counting the kickers) will get vested for a pension.

[sharpe1027]

If you're getting paid tens of millions, or even ones of millions, the only time you're on the field for a kickoff is the once-per-season Crucial Onsides Hands Team, at most. I doubt half of the guys on either side of the kickoff league-wide (okay, not counting the kickers) will get vested for a pension.

The only reason not to make safety changes seems to be that certain fans put their need to see big hits above the safety of the people playing the game.

I'm fine with them tweaking the game to reduce serious injuries. I'll still watch and support the Packers and can suppress my selfish need to see lots of big hits.

[texaspackerbacker]

Uh, yes, accurately said. And THAT is why what fans want is what should happen. Just like NASCAR, the only reason I (and a helluva lot of people) watch that boring shit is waiting to see a crash.

WE pay the tickets, buy the sponsors' products, etc. WE rule - or We should....... and I say again, if any player doesn't consider the risk worth the multiple millions he gets, he is perfectly free to go all Chris Borland and wimp out.

[Joemailman]

Uh, yes, accurately said. And THAT is why what fans want is what should happen. Just like NASCAR, the only reason I (and a helluva lot of people) watch that boring shit is waiting to see a crash.

WE pay the tickets, buy the sponsors' products, etc. WE rule - or We should....... and I say again, if any player doesn't consider the risk worth the multiple millions he gets, he is perfectly free to go all Chris Borland and wimp out.

Or...if you don't like it now you can watch something else. Doesn't seem safety measures have hurt popularity of the game. Fact is they don't need you. They'd do fine without you.

[texaspackerbacker]

Also accurate hahahahaha.

NFL games are the supply; WE the fans are the demand. It's up to them to please us, The players are merely skilled labor - some more skilled than others hahahaha. However, you're probably right, most people would keep watching even if they do this safety stupidity - just like most players would play even if they don't do the safety shit. All WE will do is complain about the stupid crap.

This really isn't that big a deal. It's a mini-step in the wrong direction IMO, but not like if they got rid of tackling and made if flag football instead.

[Frozen Tundra]

So they're trying to spice it up, which is good, but man, the detailed knowledge required to even comprehend what's going on is going to cost the NFL at some point.

Yeah. Opening weekend. At least one fan base will be ready to riot by the end of the first set of games.

[MadtownPacker]

This is lame. Diluting the product, and the product is the fight between teams on the field doesn’t sit well with me. For those complaining about the safety of players. I don’t get paid millions or even hundreds of thousands for work. Unlike Bobble and Tex most of us aren’t big money ballers.

The game I play also involves risk and I can get hurt too. My job doesn’t change because of it. The same applies to all of you most likely. AntiPolarBear could get burned really bad flipping your burger. Do we just microwave the hamburger so he is safe? The loss of quality and enjoyment would be tremendous. These mofos can alway work a regular job and still find themselves physically wrecked at old age. Ask welders or someone who works at a sheet metal place. Food manufacturing plants have sharp shit alll over. Occupational hazard is basically what watch.

When the price of tickets keeps going up and the physical action goes down we are getting ripped off. Yes there should be measures to stay safe like equipment upgrades but game flow should remain untouched.

[Frozen Tundra]

When the price of tickets keeps going up and the physical action goes down we are getting ripped off. Yes there should be measures to stay safe like equipment upgrades but game flow should remain untouched.

100%. I'm not paying this much money every year to watch flag football. Kick returns are one of the most exciting parts of the game; it can turn the momentum of the game around in a matter of seconds, more than any other play short of an interception or home-run touchdown pass or breakaway run.

Take that one off the table and you're taking a lot of the excitement out of it, for both the fans and the players. Look at the 1996 Super Bowl, where Desmond Howard took the momentum back from the Patriots in the 3rd quarter with that TD return, slamming the door in New Enlgand's face. Would that game have been anywhere near as exciting without that return? Or even have turned out the same way?

Or Nixon's return against the Niners this year? One of the best moments of that game, to that point. It was a huge part of that game.

Matt Lafleur has said a number of times this past season that our offense goes onto the field fired up and ready to rock and roll every time Nixon returns a kick; he says the whole team is excited and amped up whenever he catches the ball, because they want to watch him run it back. And when they run out onto the field afterward, they're totally pumped because of what he just did to try to put his teammates into the best possible field position. He has said that it's a huge inspiration for the whole team, that he just hurls himself headfirst into that wall of tacklers running straight at him at full speed. He thinks it's an invaluable way to start out every possession.

The NFL needs to stop pussyfying football in its never-ending quest to keep profitiziing it.

Is that even a word?

Either one of them, for that matter?

[texaspackerbacker]

If you want them to be words, they're words hahahahaha. Good Post.

Boss (Madtown), it looks like you took a few days off from us all here and are back now. Good.

You've got little ol' me lumped in with bobblehead as being a "big money baller"? I wish. I'm just a cheap old guy living off my pension and my wife's income as a burger flipping assistant manager.

[sharpe1027]

I'm not bitching about safety, I'm bitching about people that complain every damn time there's a change for safety. If you believed all the complaints, you'd be certain the game was boring as hell and nobody watched anymore. Funny how there's plenty of fans still interested despite all the whining from the old dudes about pussification.

Kick returns are boring as hell today. They're not going to make it worse because it's the worst part of the game. I'd rather they just got rid of them all together.

[Fritz]

Sexist old guy here to suggest they put sex back in the NFL. Bring back the lingerie league so each NFL team drafts a parallel women’s lingerie league roster. Then use them for the kickoff, with current rules. Safe, but not boring!

[Frozen Tundra]

Sexist old guy here to suggest they put sex back in the NFL. Bring back the lingerie league so each NFL team drafts a parallel women’s lingerie league roster. Then use them for the kickoff, with current rules. Safe, but not boring!

Well, when it comes to rule changes, and player safety, it's a complicated issue and needs to very carefully considered. To begin with, I thi....

Wait a minute. I'm sorry, did you say something about sex? And lingerie?

I'm sorry I interrupted you. Please keep talking.

[Ratatouille]

I'm a fan of kickoffs and punts as these plays can in an instant change the momentum of the game. Both have some of the highest injury risk for plays in the game but all plays have risk and I doubt the game can ever be made entirely safe. I convinced the NFL would prefer to eliminate kickoffs entirely (with punts to follow) but would make it more unwatchable.

These are just the rule changes made to formation and kickoff spot in the SB era. You can see a complete list of all kickoff changes at the following link.

https://www.footballzebras.com/2018/05/chronology-of-kickoff-rules-changes/

Formation
2006 A minimum of 4 kicking team players must be on both sides of the ball

2009 Kicking team must have on each side of the ball at least 3 players outside the hashmarks including 1 outside the numbers

2011 Kicking team players must be no more than 5 yards behind the ball

2018 Kicking team players must be no more than 1 yard behind the ball and no prekick motion

2018 Kicking team players must have 5 on either side of the ball, at least 2 between hashmarks and numbers, at least 2 outside numbers

2018 Receiving team must have 8 players within the “setup zone” (15-yd zone between 10-25 yards from the ball)

2018 Receiving team cannot exit the setup zone on either side until the ball touches the ground or a player

2021 Receiving team is permitted to have a 9th player in the setup zone at their option

Kickoff Spot
1974 35-yard line

1994 30-yard line (17 seasons)

2008 Kickoff must be made at the restraining line, removing an option to place anywhere behind

2011 35-yard line (33 seasons total, as of 2023)

[Fritz]

Well, when it comes to rule changes, and player safety, it's a complicated issue and needs to very carefully considered. To begin with, I thi....

Wait a minute. I'm sorry, did you say something about sex? And lingerie?

I'm sorry I interrupted you. Please keep talking.

https://live.staticflickr.com/2852/11889306005_ea8e2399ea_b.jpg

I'd watch her watch the football sailing through the end zone for a touchback.

I'd watch her make a fair catch.

I'd watch her make an unfair catch.

Yeah, I'd watch the kickoffs.

[MadtownPacker]

Sexist old guy here to suggest they put sex back in the NFL. Bring back the lingerie league so each NFL team drafts a parallel women’s lingerie league roster. Then use them for the kickoff, with current rules. Safe, but not boring!This is actually a great idea. Except use it to replace cheerleaders. Then we can see them during the game and they bounce around a bit.

[MadtownPacker]

I'd watch her watch the football sailing through the end zone for a touchback.

I'd watch her make a fair catch.

I'd watch her make an unfair catch.

Yeah, I'd watch the kickoffs. that red mark on her arm is from a creep like you trying to grab her. :lol:

[Fritz]

I’m the toothless old skeez sitting at the end of the bar, cackling at the barmaid and leering at the girls in the bar forty years younger than me.

A true sexy dude.

But if I was grabbing her, the arms are not the body part I’d be thinking of.

[red]

seems like a whole hell of a lot of new rules, just to make the game lamer

refs already don't know the rules we already have

just put the flags on the players already and call it soccer