Official Packers 2024 OTA/Minicamp Thread

[Joemailman]

Rookie Minicamp: May 3-4

OTA's: May 20, 21, 23, 28, 29, 31, June 3, 4, 6.

Minicamp: June 11-13

No word yet on if any practices will be open to public.

[Scott Campbell]

Can't wait to see how the noobs look in pads later in camp.

[Patler]

Can't wait to see how the noobs look in pads later in camp.

Not pads....a walking boot:


According to ESPN’s Rob Demovsky, Green Bay Packers fifth-round safety Kitan Oladapo was seen in a walking boot when the Packers opened up their rookie minicamp on Friday. It had not been previously reported, but Oladapo apparently suffered a stress fracture on his big toe while performing at the NFL Combine. Per the Packers’ Wes Hodkiewicz, Oladapo has already undergone surgery and is expected to be ready to return to the field by training camp.

[George Cumby]

Sounds like Cooper is tearing it up: one-handed interception, fumble recovery for TD.

[Joemailman]

Ryan Wood
@ByRyanWood

#Packers opened Day 2 of rookie minicamp with 18-minute stretch period. Longer than I can remember in past. Also separated linemen from skill players on both sides of ball, and had them do different warmups. Some noticeable changes with new strength/conditioning coord Aaron Hill.

[Joemailman]

Packers have signed 3 players including WR Dmitry Stanley after an impressive tryout. Stanley is the son of former Packer WR/KR Walter Stanley.

[Fritz]

Walter Stanley! Oh my gosh. He was a pretty darn good returner back in the 80's, I believe.

[smuggler]

If only we'd gotten a chance at John Jefferson's son haha

[Scott Campbell]

Packers have signed 3 players including WR Dmitry Stanley after an impressive tryout. Stanley is the son of former Packer WR/KR Walter Stanley.


Caught Andy's eye big time. Made some crazy plays in the tryout.

[Joemailman]

The Green Bay Packers signed three players, and as a result, released three other players following rookie minicamp over the weekend.

The six moves announced by the Packers on Monday: signed receiver Julian Hicks, offensive lineman Lecitus Smith and receiver Dimitri Stanley, released cornerback Anthony Johnson and defensive lineman Deandre Johnson, and waived/injured receiver Thyrick Pitts.

Cornerback Anthony Johnson not to be confused with Anthony Johnson Jr.

[Fritz]

I am reading about how fast the new linebackers, Gary and Dennis, are, and I then keep thinking back to watching the Tampa Bay linebackers a few years ago in a playoff game against Green Bay. Those two inside Tampa linebackers were so damn fast, and they hit so damn hard, and they didn't miss tackles. It seemed to me that they really, really messed up the Packers' offense in that game.

[TravisWilliams23]

Those two inside Tampa linebackers were so damn fast, and they hit so damn hard, and they didn't miss tackles. It seemed to me that they really, really messed up the Packers' offense in that game.
That was the game Rodgers choose to throw the ball instead of trying to run it in for a score. The backers were super fast and I don't think he's have made it. I believe White was 1 of them.

[bobblehead]

That was the game Rodgers choose to throw the ball instead of trying to run it in for a score. The backers were super fast and I don't think he's have made it. I believe White was 1 of them.

He wouldn't have made it...he would have made it to the 1 on 2nd down or on 3rd down. Either time, running it would have changed the entire dynamic and I think they would have gone for it on 4th if not scored on 3rd.

[Joemailman]

He wouldn't have made it...he would have made it to the 1 on 2nd down or on 3rd down. Either time, running it would have changed the entire dynamic and I think they would have gone for it on 4th if not scored on 3rd.

MLF was asked why he didn't go for it on 4th and 8. Said he just didn't have any plays he felt confident in on 4th and 8 against that defense. He hinted though that he might well have gone for it on 4th and 5 or less.

[smuggler]

LeVonte David and Devin White

[Fritz]

Man, they were good in that game. I remember a couple of Packer runs, where the running back looked like he had an opening for a big gain, then, wham, out of nowhere, one of the linebackers would nail him for a one or two yard gain. Man, they were fast, and they hit hard.

[Joemailman]

The Green Bay Packers released rookie undrafted free agent Rodney Mathews to clear a roster spot for former San Francisco 49ers defensive lineman Spencer Waege, who was claimed off of waivers on Thursday, per Field Yates of ESPN.

Mathews, who went undrafted out of Ohio, signed following the draft and participated during the team’s rookie minicamp last week.

Waege spent the 2nd half of the season on the 49ers practice squad in 2023.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GNKrHEEWMAAN9CK?format=jpg&name=small

[RashanGary]

I just listened to the lockerroom interviews from the drafted players.

They almost all seemed like great kids. Pratt maybe a little bratty and Kalen King seemed like a cocky, arrogant kid who got knocked down a few notches. I’m guessing he needed that, but arrogance dies hard. If I had to pick two to flame out based on personality, those are my picks.

Bullard stood out as being incredibly bright and hard nosed too. I really like the country Georgia kids we have. Wyatt, Quay and Bullard. They seem like the bare foot, climbing trees, swimming in creeks sort of country kids and in soft suburban ‘merica, I think the further you go into the forests, swamps and corn fields, the better chance you have of finding a salt of the earth tough guy. He seemed very bright too. Just sharp, focused, bright kid.

Monk is the next guy who kind of stood out as having the right stuff. You can hear guys talk game, but when he talked about being accountable he framed it as he’s not going to bringing any dead weight. That goes beyond just saying the right thing in my view. They don’t teach you to say you’re disgusted by dead weight. You come up with that one on your own and I think he genuinely believes in the grind. A tone setter.

Morgan has a quiet alpha vibe. Maybe he’s not as wild and crazy as Bakh, but he’s kind of in that mold. I can kind of see the mischievous big guy attitude shine through even though he’s holding back. Seems like a great dude. He’s clearly a rare athlete. So being a classic wild and crazy big guy in the Sitton/Bakh mold only adds to the old school rough trench game that we all have so much affection for.

Cooper doesn’t seem quite as bright as most of the guys, but he hunts hogs and fishes for bass. Country kid. Seems like a guy you can count on to give 110 and that’s exactly what he said he was going to do.

Glover seemed like a bright guy. More of a serious guy than the other two, but smart. We always draft smart OL.

Hopper seemed smart, reminded me of Aaron Jones, just infectious, huge hearted dude. Just all world human being. I mean, it might be all he’s good for, but there is something to be said for the intangible power of love in the room. Maybe it’s worth burning a 3rd on a priest for the LB room. If he brings out the best in the two freaky studs we have in front of him it’s definitely worth it.

Williams, Olandapo and Lloyd seemed like your typical suburban dumb ass kids. But you know, that’s 95% of the population. Can’t completely avoid them. Throw Pratt and King in this stereotype too. But these were more humble dip shit kids than the first two i mentioned so throw them in with a bunch of studs and they’ll get right in line.

[Fritz]

I just listened to the lockerroom interviews from the drafted players.

They almost all seemed like great kids. Pratt maybe a little bratty and Kalen King seemed like a cocky, arrogant kid who got knocked down a few notches. I’m guessing he needed that, but arrogance dies hard. If I had to pick two to flame out based on personality, those are my picks.

Bullard stood out as being incredibly bright and hard nosed too. I really like the country Georgia kids we have. Wyatt, Quay and Bullard. They seem like the bare foot, climbing trees, swimming in creeks sort of country kids and in soft suburban ‘merica, I think the further you go into the forests, swamps and corn fields, the better chance you have of finding a salt of the earth tough guy. He seemed very bright too. Just sharp, focused, bright kid.

Monk is the next guy who kind of stood out as having the right stuff. You can hear guys talk game, but when he talked about being accountable he framed it as he’s not going to bringing any dead weight. That goes beyond just saying the right thing in my view. They don’t teach you to say you’re disgusted by dead weight. You come up with that one on your own and I think he genuinely believes in the grind. A tone setter.

Morgan has a quiet alpha vibe. Maybe he’s not as wild and crazy as Bakh, but he’s kind of in that mold. I can kind of see the mischievous big guy attitude shine through even though he’s holding back. Seems like a great dude. He’s clearly a rare athlete. So being a classic wild and crazy big guy in the Sitton/Bakh mold only adds to the old school rough trench game that we all have so much affection for.

Cooper doesn’t seem quite as bright as most of the guys, but he hunts hogs and fishes for bass. Country kid. Seems like a guy you can count on to give 110 and that’s exactly what he said he was going to do.

Glover seemed like a bright guy. More of a serious guy than the other two, but smart. We always draft smart OL.

Hopper seemed smart, reminded me of Aaron Jones, just infectious, huge hearted dude. Just all world human being. I mean, it might be all he’s good for, but there is something to be said for the intangible power of love in the room. Maybe it’s worth burning a 3rd on a priest for the LB room. If he brings out the best in the two freaky studs we have in front of him it’s definitely worth it.

Williams, Olandapo and Lloyd seemed like your typical suburban dumb ass kids. But you know, that’s 95% of the population. Can’t completely avoid them. Throw Pratt and King in this stereotype too. But these were more humble dip shit kids than the first two i mentioned so throw them in with a bunch of studs and they’ll get right in line.

I only want a priest in the LB room if he's graduated from the Wayne Simmons School of Divinity.

[smuggler]

People who follow the Wayne Simmons path to faith have closed casket funerals. If we could just sign the undertaker instead, you'd be on the right track.

[Joemailman]

Paul Bretl
@Paul_Bretl

Packers pass game coordinator Derek Ansley on Jaire Alexander:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GNUbrK6XgAES2AQ?format=jpg&name=small

[MadScientist]

Paul Bretl
@Paul_Bretl

Packers pass game coordinator Derek Ansley on Jaire Alexander:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GNUbrK6XgAES2AQ?format=jpg&name=small

That sounds good, like Alexander is really putting in the work and is re-energized for the season. However, this time of year it might just be a "best shape of his career" variant.

[Teamcheez1]

The Packers also paid his $8M roster bonus in March. That was a signal they were invested in him as a Packer and he needed to step up.

[run pMc]

I think Barry being shown the door was re-energizing for Jaire.

[Scott Campbell]

I think Barry being shown the door was re-energizing for Jaire.

Yeah, I think a lot of guys in the lockerroom were more than ready to move on from Joe.

Jaire has another massive issue that should re-energize him. His cap hit is ~ $24M, $26M and $28M over the next 3 seasons. His dead money hit is ~ $35.5M, $19M and $11M over the same 3 seasons. He hasn't played anywhere near an elite enough level to justify his massive contract for years now. He also hasn't been able to stay on the field regularly. We can't possibly afford to walk away from him this year, but it gets significantly easier in each of the next 2 years.

Ideally he just gets back to being worth the money.

[Scott Campbell]

The Packers also paid his $8M roster bonus in March. That was a signal they were invested in him as a Packer and he needed to step up.

With a $35M dead money cap hit this year, I don't read too much in them paying Jaire the roster bonus. With Bakh already counting for $19.1M in dead money this year, realeasing or trading Jaire isn't yet a realistic option - in my opinion.

[bobblehead]

I think Barry being shown the door was re-energizing for Jaire.

I think he likes being viewed as "the man". With Douglas gone and everyone being younger than him gives him a wise old veteran feeling. The kids are looking up.to him and he loves it.

[Joemailman]

It's a huge year for Jaire. His cap hit jumps to 23 million in 2024 and will be 25 and 27 million in 2025 and 2026. Starting in 2025 the Packers would save money on the cap by moving him. He needs to be an elite player to justify paying that salary.

[Joemailman]

OTA's start today. First media access tomorrow. Imagine most of the focus will be on defense, because that's where the most changes are.

[bobblehead]

It's a huge year for Jaire. His cap hit jumps to 23 million in 2024 and will be 25 and 27 million in 2025 and 2026. Starting in 2025 the Packers would save money on the cap by moving him. He needs to be an elite player to justify paying that salary.

My bet is he blows this season. He has skipped most of the "dominant shutdown corner" part of his career and is transforming into the old guy who talks about how he was a dominant shut down corner. It works well for Woodson because....well, he actually was for 6-8 years. Jaire had a nice 10 game run at one point to land a contract. In his mind, his work is done and he is ready to impart all of his wisdom on to the young guys.

[Joemailman]

My bet is he blows this season. He has skipped most of the "dominant shutdown corner" part of his career and is transforming into the old guy who talks about how he was a dominant shut down corner. It works well for Woodson because....well, he actually was for 6-8 years. Jaire had a nice 10 game run at one point to land a contract. In his mind, his work is done and he is ready to impart all of his wisdom on to the young guys.

He's still only 27. The last 2 seasons he's been healthy (2020 & 2022) he was 2nd team all-pro and allowed a passing rating in the 60's. He's still young enough to get back to that level. Health is the key.

[RashanGary]

I’ve been to practice. Jaire is a tireless worker. He’s always off doing something productive with down time when other guys are standing around. He grinds. I think the opinion on his football character thats come up lately is way off base.

[bobblehead]

He's still only 27. The last 2 seasons he's been healthy (2020 & 2022) he was 2nd team all-pro and allowed a passing rating in the 60's. He's still young enough to get back to that level. Health is the key.

correction. Health AND attitude are the keys

[bobblehead]

I’ve been to practice. Jaire is a tireless worker. He’s always off doing something productive with down time when other guys are standing around. He grinds. I think the opinion on his football character thats come up lately is way off base.

I hope so. For the most part he has acted like a guy wearing a polka dot tie. He has been a total douche in many ways. Of course T.O. was a douche in many ways but also a relentless worker so I hope you are right.

[Joemailman]

correction. Health AND attitude are the keys

Agreed, but I think with Barry gone, his attitude will be fine.

[Teamcheez1]

I see we already have another hamstring injury at OTA’s: Josh Jacobs

[Joemailman]

I see we already have another hamstring injury at OTA’s: Josh Jacobs

Tom and Kraft with pec injuries is probably a greater concern. A very unverified source has indicated that they were working with the same s/c trainer.

[Teamcheez1]

Pec is the new hamstring (or in addition to it).

[NewsBruin]

I've viewed pec tears as one of them things guys on The Juice just can't stop themselves from doing.

[Fritz]

My bet is he blows this season. He has skipped most of the "dominant shutdown corner" part of his career and is transforming into the old guy who talks about how he was a dominant shut down corner. It works well for Woodson because....well, he actually was for 6-8 years. Jaire had a nice 10 game run at one point to land a contract. In his mind, his work is done and he is ready to impart all of his wisdom on to the young guys.

The old guy who talks about how he was a dominant shut down corner? Are you getting Jaire confused with APB? Only ONE of them shut down Darren Charles, y’know.

[Joemailman]

Tom and Kraft with pec injuries is probably a greater concern. A very unverified source has indicated that they were working with the same s/c trainer.

For the record, Tom's injury happened before the draft. Kraft about 10 days ago. Both were injured lifting weights.

[Fritz]

I think Kraft just got married, so I wonder if this is all a communication mixup. Torn pec, torn pecker - maybe it happened on his wedding night.

[Patler]

I see we already have another hamstring injury at OTA’s: Josh Jacobs

If Jacobs has hamstring issues this year in GB, and Aaron Jones does not with Vikings, an investigation should be started!!!

[MadtownPacker]

Maybe something in the cheese?

[Joemailman]

Just a shameless attempt by Jacobs to blend in with his new team.

[Fosco33]

The guys in Madison may have figured out Watsons hamstring issue. One of his legs has 20% more muscle mass than the other.

https://x.com/easton__butler/status/1793988484404785293?s=42&t=qln1nIlv_JZOHZFOGLClCw

[Joemailman]

Rod Demovsky has a piece on it. https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/40202788/how-packers-christian-watson-hamstring-issues-eric-stokes

I think now we know why the Packers cleaned house with the strength and conditioning staff. This is something that should have been diagnosed a lot earlier.

[MadtownPacker]

The guys in Madison may have figured out Watsons hamstring issue. One of his legs has 20% more muscle mass than the other.

https://x.com/easton__butler/status/1793988484404785293?s=42&t=qln1nIlv_JZOHZFOGLClCw
Crazy wheeze. The leg gets hurt not being able to keep up with the stronger one? Born that way or is homeboy cholo leaning to that side when pumping iron?

[smuggler]

Probably he injured it once and was cheating with the other side perpetually and it caused repeated reinjury. I have done some dumb shit like that before.

[bobblehead]

Everyone has natural muscle imbalance. I read a great article on thw WWEs strength program and the very first thing they do is measure for imbalances. Then they get to work fixing them. Of course the process is faster with copious amounts of steroids.

[texaspackerbacker]

This seems like s cause and effect/which came first chicken or egg situation: he has less muscle mass in the leg that gets the hamstring injuries? Does that cause the injuries? Or is it (more likely) the result of the injuries?

[MadtownPacker]

Everyone has natural muscle imbalance. I read a great article on thw WWEs strength program and the very first thing they do is measure for imbalances. Then they get to work fixing them. Of course the process is faster with copious amounts of steroids.
Like how APB has one forearm larger than the other? Between flipping burgers and date night it’s a miracle he can still post without pulling something.

[sharpe1027]

Player has repeat hamstring injuries. Top experts studying hamstring injuries assess the player and identity muscle imbalance they believe is contributing to the injuries. They develop a plan to reduce the chances of a future injury.

Someone on PRs forum explains why they don't believe the experts and it's more likely the hamstring injuries caused the imbalance. They aren't an expert, but they stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Never fails.

[ThunderDan]

Player has repeat hamstring injuries. Top experts studying hamstring injuries assess the player and identity muscle imbalance they believe is contributing to the injuries. They develop a plan to reduce the chances of a future injury.

Someone on PRs forum explains why they don't believe the experts and it's more likely the hamstring injuries caused the injuries. They aren't an expert, but they stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Never fails.

I see we can’t “thumbs up” posts any more. I give this post two thumbs up, way the fuck up!

[Joemailman]

I see we can’t “thumbs up” posts any more. I give this post two thumbs up, way the fuck up!

we do have these: :glug::wave::bow::clap::tup::bump::worship:

[ThunderDan]

Player has repeat hamstring injuries. Top experts studying hamstring injuries assess the player and identity muscle imbalance they believe is contributing to the injuries. They develop a plan to reduce the chances of a future injury.

Someone on PRs forum explains why they don't believe the experts and it's more likely the hamstring injuries caused the imbalance. They aren't an expert, but they stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Never fails.

:wow::bclap:

[ThunderDan]

we do have these: :glug::wave::bow::clap::tup::bump::worship:

Thank you, I was talking about the reputation points.

[smuggler]

Player has repeat hamstring injuries. Top experts studying hamstring injuries assess the player and identity muscle imbalance they believe is contributing to the injuries. They develop a plan to reduce the chances of a future injury.

Someone on PRs forum explains why they don't believe the experts and it's more likely the hamstring injuries caused the imbalance. They aren't an expert, but they stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Never fails.

I don't think you're quite grasping which is the chicken and which is the egg.

[sharpe1027]

I don't think you're quite grasping which is the chicken and which is the egg.
Are you saying his 20% imbalance in 2021 was caused by his hamstring injuries in 2022 and 2023? If so, I agree. I don't grasp that egg.

[Joemailman]

The 20% imbalance was discovered at UW following the 2023 season.

[sharpe1027]

According to ESPN's Rob Demovsky, Watson had a 20 percent difference in muscle mass between his two legs back in 2021. The gap is now just 8-10 percent.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10122454-packers-christian-watson-had-20-gap-in-leg-muscle-mass-amid-hamstring-injuries

[Joemailman]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10122454-packers-christian-watson-had-20-gap-in-leg-muscle-mass-amid-hamstring-injuries

No. I think Bleacher Report misquoted Demovsky's article. What Demovsky reported was:


The key for Watson, he discovered, is symmetry. That was chief among the things he learned during eight hours of testing this offseason at the University of Wisconsin's School of Medicine and Public Health. Tests showed a muscle imbalance in his legs, which likely contributed to his problems. He has missed 11 games during his first two seasons, including eight last season, because of a pulled hamstring in his right leg.

The confusion may be based on this:


Shortly after Watson's visit to UW, which in 2021 was given a $4 million grant by the NFL to study the prevention and treatment of hamstring injuries, he had a 20% difference in muscle strength between his right and left legs. Now, he says it's between 8% and 10%.

[sharpe1027]

No. I think Bleacher Report misquoted Demovsky's article. What Demovsky reported was:



The confusion may be based on this:

That seems likely. I didn't realize the messed up, but thanks for the good catch.

The experts stated the imbalance likely contributed to his problems. I'm inclined to believe they know their chicken and eggs better than most.

[RashanGary]

Player has repeat hamstring injuries. Top experts studying hamstring injuries assess the player and identity muscle imbalance they believe is contributing to the injuries. They develop a plan to reduce the chances of a future injury.

Someone on PRs forum explains why they don't believe the experts and it's more likely the hamstring injuries caused the imbalance. They aren't an expert, but they stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Never fails.


Sorry to argue with you again, man

"For me, it really was the asymmetry between the legs," Watson explained this week after an OTA practice. "It comes from a lot of things. Obviously, the issues I've had in the past with hamstrings, not fully recovering from those strength-wise. I've been attacking the strength side of it, trying to get that symmetry back and it's been huge for me. I feel really, really good. I gotta continue grinding at it."

There is no possible way in the world, no matter how great one’s imagination to assume the professionals who never observed him in 2022 could know what factors likely lead to his first injury. Watson himself, speaking from a place of sharing the insight he got from UW Madison
says that the strength is down, at least in part, if not mostly, from not fully recovering from the original injuries.

Tex is more right, on a hunch, than you were after either not listening to Watson speak and getting your info from a headline or from not comprehending what he actually said.

Tex is right and he also stayed at a holiday inn.

Tex, the asymmetry we’re talking about here is in strength, not mass. But excellent hypothesis. It lines right up with the experts.

[Fosco33]

So do summarize it’s either:
Sven, the 13yr old Viking fan who has a penchant for the occult putting a curse on the hammie
Nothing to do with muscles
Strength difference
Muscles mass imbalance

Certainly no one is ‘right’ - except perhaps Sven

[RashanGary]

I know we’re all big fucking retards every time we think for ourselves or try to piece together possible reasons for how things unfolded. So by all means disregard what i say here as me being an untethered retard who bit through his leash.

But Watsons dad has a podcast and regular presence on X. He’s been going on about several rookies injuries and saying the training for the combine causes problems for their health when they play actual football. He didn’t specifically mention his son. But it is possible to consider that, at least partially, he believes his son’s initial injury happened because his combine training made his body more prone to injury.

After the initial injury, using Watson’s words, we can also consider it possible that reinjury happened probably from asymmetry.

I’m also not an expert, but I did stay at a holiday inn.

[sharpe1027]

Sorry to argue with you again, man

"For me, it really was the asymmetry between the legs," Watson explained this week after an OTA practice. "It comes from a lot of things. Obviously, the issues I've had in the past with hamstrings, not fully recovering from those strength-wise. I've been attacking the strength side of it, trying to get that symmetry back and it's been huge for me. I feel really, really good. I gotta continue grinding at it."

There is no possible way in the world, no matter how great one’s imagination to assume the professionals who never observed him in 2022 could know what factors likely lead to his first injury. Watson himself, speaking from a place of sharing the insight he got from UW Madison
says that the strength is down, at least in part, if not mostly, from not fully recovering from the original injuries.

Tex is more right, on a hunch, than you were after either not listening to Watson speak and getting your info from a headline or from not comprehending what he actually said.

Tex is right and he also stayed at a holiday inn.

Tex, the asymmetry we’re talking about here is in strength, not mass. But excellent hypothesis. It lines right up with the experts.

This doesn't make sense. He goes to the leading specialist in the field to figure out why he's having issues. They run eight hours of tests and conclude that muscle imbalance is the most important issue.

Now, I'm not saying the injuries did not contribute to his imbalance, that's impossible for me to know. I am saying the specialist aren't likely to be complete morons and diagnose the reason for his past problems based on a condition that likely didn't exist until after he had his latest problems.

I guess it's possible that the leading experts are that fucking stupid, but it seems really really unlikely.

You can believe whatever you want, but I don't think there's any chance you're going to convince me otherwise based solely on your assessment from reading a headline and diagnosing from your couch.

[RashanGary]

This doesn't make sense. He goes to the leading specialist in the field to figure out why he's having issues. They run eight hours of tests and conclude that muscle imbalance is the most important issue.

Now, I'm not saying the injuries did not contribute to his imbalance, that's impossible for me to know. I am saying the specialist aren't likely to be complete morons and diagnose the reason for his past problems based on a condition that likely didn't exist until after he had his latest problems.

I guess it's possible that the leading experts are that fucking stupid, but it seems really really unlikely.

You can believe whatever you want, but I don't think there's any chance you're going to convince me otherwise based solely on your assessment from reading a headline and diagnosing from your coach.

Bro, nothing Watson shared made reference to his initial injury. All he talked about is asymmetry and the only factor he listed relating to asymmetry was previous injury.

This is a comprehension problem on your part, not anyone trying to override experts opinions.

[sharpe1027]

Bro, nothing Watson shared made reference to his initial injury. All he talked about is asymmetry and the only factor he listed relating to asymmetry was previous injury.

This is a comprehension problem on your part, not anyone trying to override experts opinions.

No it's not . It's an overconfidence issue on your part.

The Packers paid for all that testing because he was having reoccurring issues. It's only natural to assume the medical experts know the difference between pre and post injury issues.The article said the experts believe the imbalance was a contributing factor in his injuries. I'm pretty sure that means they think the imbalance existed prior to those injuries.

[sharpe1027]

It's as simple as the experts identified muscle imbalance as a likely contributing factor in his previous injury. Assuming they understand which way time flows, they believe a muscle imbalance existed before the injuries occured.

Secondarily, between the medical experts and some dude posting on the Internet,

Who had access prior medical records?
Who had access to Watson to obtain information on his training and recovery process?
Who had direct physical access to Watson and was able to perform eight hours of testing (that's a lot)?
Who is more likely to understand the progression and root cause of a muscle imbalance?
Who is more likely to be over confident in themselves?

[ThunderDan]

No it's not . It's an overconfidence issue on your part.

The Packers paid for all that testing because he was having reoccurring issues. It's only natural to assume the medical experts know the difference between pre and post injury issues.The article said the experts believe the imbalance was a contributing factor in his injuries. I'm pretty sure that means they think the imbalance existed prior to those injuries.

I played a ton of basketball in HS and college. Tried to walk on to the Badgers when Yoder was the coach and didn’t make it.

I blew my right ankle apart playing rec ball in college when someone pushed me from behind going for a rebound. I wasn’t allowed to put any weight on it for 2 weeks and had crutches for 8.

When I finally was able to get to rehab, the strength in my right ankle was at 60% of my left ankle. They made me run the test twice they were so surprised. It turns out jumping off the same leg for 12 years creates a huge imbalance. When I finished rehab and retested my right side was 175% as strong as my left 16 weeks post injury.

[sharpe1027]

I played a ton of basketball in HS and college. Tried to walk on to the Badgers when Yoder was the coach and didn’t make it.

I blew my right ankle apart playing rec ball in college when someone pushed me from behind going for a rebound. I wasn’t allowed to put any weight on it for 2 weeks and had crutches for 8.

When I finally was able to get to rehab, the strength in my right ankle was at 60% of my left ankle. They made me run the test twice they were so surprised. It turns out jumping off the same leg for 12 years creates a huge imbalance. When I finished rehab and retested my right side was 175% as strong as my left 16 weeks post injury.

Yes. My point is not that injuries cannot create muscle imbalance, it's simply this. A muscle imbalance cannot be a contributing factor in an injury that occurred prior to the muscle imbalance AND experts in the field know this.

[RashanGary]

Sharpe, your conclusion that the imbalance was speaking about the initial injury as well as the two year reinjuries is a pretty big assumption when considering the context.

It’s not crazy or being an ignorant know it all, but no more is tex being an ignoramus by saying the imbalance during testing probably had to do with previous injuries.

The whole “but I did stay at a holiday inn” comment is condescending and smug. Tex makes a ton of sense in a lot of areas most people have huge mental road blocks. He goes way off in other areas in my opinion. But Tex had an incredibly unique and valuable view point and to look down your nose at him is kind of ignorant imho.

There’s been no one here who I’ve disagreed with more often and more vehemently than Tex. But there’s no one who’s opened my eyes to things I couldn’t see more than tex either. I don’t think you’d want him being a dictator of anything, but there aren’t many Tex’s in the world and his viewpoint brings a lot to the table of mostly like minded people.

[Joemailman]

Whatever the case, it appears the now replaced strength and conditioning team had no idea of the strength imbalance in Watson's legs. Or allowed him to play despite it. Stokes reinjured his hamstring after playing 4 plays his 1st game back. Makes me wonder if Bakhtiari's ongoing knee problems had something to do with a substandard strength and conditioning regimen.

[sharpe1027]

Tex has more than earned condescending remarks. He's a complete asshole to people calling them all sorts of names. Don't cry to me about "smug" remarks aimed at him. I don't give a shit.

I didn't distinguish between any of the specific injuries. It is possible the first hamstring injury was random and the imbalance only occured then This is about diagnosing why he has reoccurring injuries.

It's also possible he's had an imbalance dating back many years. None of us know.

[Patler]

Maybe the strength imbalance grew out of a high school (and younger) athlete naturally favoring his stronger, more coordinated side, much like Thunder Dan's ankle history; and the imbalance was neither detected nor corrected by a smaller, less-well funded college athletic department.

Maybe the strength imbalance originated from his earlier knee issue in 2017 (or whenever), again neither detected nor corrected in college.

Maybe the strength imbalance originated from his rehab for the minor knee surgery he had after the draft and before training camp his rookie season, perhaps from trying to come back quickly and make his mark after missing most of that training camp.

Maybe the strength imbalance originated from his first hamstring injury as a Packer and his rehab from it.

Maybe the strength imbalance as detected this offseason is an accumulated result from repeated hamstring injuries the last two seasons.

Maybe the strength imbalance as detected this off season is the accumulated result from several or all of the above scenarios.


Any of the above are possible, but not particularly important to us at this point. The important thing for fans is this:

The experts believe the strength imbalance is a significant contributing factor to his ongoing hamstring problems, and they believe correcting the imbalance can alleviate those problems.

[sharpe1027]

Yes, Patler.