Who is Ben Taylor?

[Harlan Huckleby]

I've read many posters say that the Packers should bench Poppinga and turn to the "reliable vet". Why do you think Ben Taylor is reliable?

I am not down or up on BT. I didn't see him make a single play in the preseason, but that might just be because the coaches wanted to look more at other players. Did anybody see anything in Ben Taylor in the preseason that impressed you?

As far as I know, the only recommendation for Taylor is that Thompson brought him in, and he made the roster. But you could say the same thing about Robert Thomas last year.

In two years, Hawk has been the only new linebacker who has played better than the discarded player, Na'il Diggs.

I have heard only negative reviews of Ben Taylor. Somebody last summer linked to remarks by a Cleveland sports writer saying that any replacement for Taylor would be an upgrade. And I recently heard Jason Wilde state that Taylor wasn't starting because he is a liability against the run (not sure if that came from his sources, or was just his opinion.)

I'm prepared to believe that Ben Taylor is a "reliable veteran." But so far, nobody with good football knowlege has given me any evidence or opinion to suggest it's true. And I've seen nothing with my own eyes. For those who are saying he is upgrade over Poppinga, please tell me why.

[retailguy]

Good post Harlan.

Honestly, we didn't see enough of Taylor in the preseason to judge whether or not he's an upgrade. I don't follow cleveland football so I don't have a clue

There is, however, some merit to the perspective, "he really can't play much worse", than Brady has played these first two games.

Poppinga is definitely a weak link in the defense right now, there are several others, and those calling for his head are doing so, because they see that POPPINGA can't play, and ASSUME Taylor can play.

Poppinga was overhyped by almost every reporter in Green Bay, and now those "promises" are not being fulfilled. He's a 5th round pick (I think) who probably needs a year of seasoning before much can be expected of him.

Even that probably won't be enough. Other than the ability to occasionally get into the backfield, Poppinga hasn't done much right. Even his pressures haven't been that impressive.

I'm really down on the guy, and that takes a lot..... :mrgreen:

[run pMc]

I thought this might have been a Jeopardy style question.

[Ballboy]

I think Brady played better this week.....I would guess that he is really just getting into the flow of the defense no.

I am NOT a Ben Taylor fan. He seemed slow on D in the preseason. You can't teach speed, we all know Brady has speed.

[run pMc]

Kidding aside, I'm wondering how long before they start Taylor. I was wondering how Popp managed to go from "probably start season on PUP" to "might be able to play Week 1" to "Week 1 starter"...with barely any comment made about Taylor's preseason performance.

I was under the impression he was doing a workmanlike job and was the starter.

Was Popp showing that much more ability than Taylor? I'm curious as to what's going behind the scenes. I think benching Popp after two games wouldn't be good for Popp, but I wouldn't be against substituting Taylor in liberally on passing downs.

I'm becoming convinced that Popp is a talented player without a true position in this defense...maybe best suited for an inside backer in a 3-4? Trade bait?

[Patler]

Ben Taylor seems to be one of those guys who quietly does a decent job, but certainly isn't going to be an impact, or game changing player, He did have 113 total tackles last year, 77 unassisted, which are fairly significant numbers for an outside linebacker and indicate that at least he is involved in the plays that he should be involved in. On the other hand, he started every game last year for Cleveland, but had no ints, forced fumbles or fumble recoveries.

I think Poppinga is being given a chance because it is hoped that he can be an impact player, and I expect his audition will last a few weeks yet. But if he doesn't improve in pass defense, we may see more of Taylor because Poppinga's breakdowns in coverage have hurt quite a bit.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Was Popp showing that much more ability than Taylor? I'm curious as to what's going behind the scenes. I think benching Popp after two games wouldn't be good for Popp, but I wouldn't be against substituting Taylor in liberally on passing downs.

Others pointed this out in Poppinga threads, but Pop already comes out in nickle and dime packages on passing downs.

This is just a guess based on little evidence, but I think what is going on "behind the scenes" is that Taylor is a crappy player who the coaches would have preferred to cut. Manning made no progress from last year, so they gave up on him. Taylor was best option left.

[Patler]

This is just a guess based on little evidence, but I think what is going on "behind the scenes" is that Taylor is a crappy player who the coaches would have preferred to cut. Manning made no progress from last year, so they gave up on him. Taylor was best option left.

I disagree with your conclusion of Taylor being "crappy", for the reasons in my earlier post. "Crappy" players don't make 113 tackles, regardless. Only 20 players in the league had more tackles than Taylor last year. That shows steadiness and reliability. He certainly isn't a great player, but "crappy" is a bit harsh I think.

GB has gotten little out of its linebackers in being impact players for a number of years, and I think they want to turn that around. Poppinga has the potential to do that, Taylor is unlikely to help in that regard.

If they decide they need a steady, but unspectacular player, they will go to Taylor. I expect they are happy to have him as a reserve, because of his experience and reliability.

[mmmdk]

TT has so far been a slouch at picking up FAs. Maybe that's why he doesn't like free agency!? TT does an average job at drafting. Really, it's on TT not Poppinga and Ben Taylor. With that said, I believe Pop is the least inferior of the two. Pop does have speed but so does Carroll and that sprinter guy we had in camp. You can't teach speed but speed rarely does it alone.

[KYPack]

Taylor is 28

Pop just turned 27.

Taylor is a C+ student against the pass, C- against the run.

Pop is a B- against the run, D- against the pass.

Pop has all the upside, Taylor is what he is.

I think the answer is start Taylor and work pop in there at every opportunity.

By the end of the year, Poppinga should be the start.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Only 20 players in the league had more tackles than Taylor last year. That shows steadiness and reliability.

Well, sometimes tackle stats are deceiving, but it sounds like he was better than steady last year, he was a good starter.

So how come they start Poppinga in the season opener? Pop was obviously rusty, why not wait a few weeks?

To my mind, one of two things must be true:
1) Coaches did not like the looks of Taylor this summer
2) McCarthy screwed-up by starting Pop so soon

[Harlan Huckleby]

I think the answer is start Taylor and work pop in there at every opportunity.

Right. But this answer is so obvious that it confuses me why they didn't go this route.

[jack's smirking revenge]

He's a linebacker for the Packers. Sheez, bluedog, do I REALLY have to tell you who Ben Taylor is?

:D

tyler

[Patler]

Only 20 players in the league had more tackles than Taylor last year. That shows steadiness and reliability.

Well, sometimes tackle stats are deceiving, but it sounds like he was better than steady last year, he was a good starter.

So how come they start Poppinga in the season opener? Pop was obviously rusty, why not wait a few weeks?

To my mind, one of two things must be true:
1) Coaches did not like the looks of Taylor this summer
2) McCarthy screwed-up by starting Pop so soon

I'm not sure it was either. GB is a team desperately looking for a spark on defense, in terms of both emotion and performance. They hope to get that from Poppinga. If that is the case, being injured and out of most of training camp may have played into Poppinga's benefit in becoming a starter. If he had been around all of training camp and played in all of the preseason games the Packers may have concluded that they couldn't afford to have him as a starter yet this year. As it was, the only way to really see what he could provide in terms of spark, attitude, fire, what ever was to throw him out there as a starter and see how it pans out.

The question now appears to be if and how soon the coaches will determine that his significant deficiencies outweigh his, so far, marginal advantages; and whether Poppinga can improve on his deficiencies quickly enough.

[The Leaper]

I view Taylor as someone very similar to Diggs...he's typically a solid player in terms of assignments, but will never be confused with a playmaker. I think he should have been the starter since week 1. Poppinga did not deserve to stroll into preseason 10 days before the start of the year and earn a starting spot. He really didn't do anything last year to prove he was worthy of being a starter. He should've been given time to work his way into being a starter. That is why I thought Taylor was acquired in the first place.

[red]

Only 20 players in the league had more tackles than Taylor last year. That shows steadiness and reliability.

Well, sometimes tackle stats are deceiving, but it sounds like he was better than steady last year, he was a good starter.

So how come they start Poppinga in the season opener? Pop was obviously rusty, why not wait a few weeks?

To my mind, one of two things must be true:
1) Coaches did not like the looks of Taylor this summer
2) McCarthy screwed-up by starting Pop so soon

i think its option 3

TT wants his young rookies that he drafted to have every chance in the world to see if they can succeed, even if that means starting a rookie over a vet that might be a better player, but has less upside

[The Leaper]

Perhaps red...but the season is 16 games long. It isn't like Poppinga is Cinderella and has only until October to prove himself.

I don't like option 3. You need to put the best team on the field to start the season. There is plenty of time later on to review "potential" if your season goes in the crapper.

[green_bowl_packer]

I have to agree with the Leaper on this one. Considering he had one start last year when he got injured, I don't know if that counts as not losing your starting position to injury, but I dont' think he did anything special to earn the job. His strength last year was being a situational pass rusher and blitzer, and they are not playing to his strengths the way they are using him. I see him lined up out wide, covering a linebacker or running back and know he's done for.

[Partial]

The truth is this:

TT has yet to hit one out of the park with his draft picks that he values more than signing free agents. He knows the team is going to be bad this year, so rather than starting the better player in Taylor, he is hoping Poppinga can start and develop into a player he can finally claim as a "steal" in the draft and reassure us all of his "profound" ability to draft.

[Scott Campbell]

The truth is this:

TT has yet to hit one out of the park with his draft picks that he values more than signing free agents. He knows the team is going to be bad this year, so rather than starting the better player in Taylor, he is hoping Poppinga can start and develop into a player he can finally claim as a "steal" in the draft and reassure us all of his "profound" ability to draft.

I hope to hell he's not picking the starters.

[Partial]

The truth is this:

TT has yet to hit one out of the park with his draft picks that he values more than signing free agents. He knows the team is going to be bad this year, so rather than starting the better player in Taylor, he is hoping Poppinga can start and develop into a player he can finally claim as a "steal" in the draft and reassure us all of his "profound" ability to draft.

I hope to hell he's not picking the starters.

Guarantee you this is 100% TTs act. McCarthy said Taylor was one of the primary playmakers on TC, and McCarthy also said that TT picked the starters.

[Scott Campbell]

The truth is this:

TT has yet to hit one out of the park with his draft picks that he values more than signing free agents. He knows the team is going to be bad this year, so rather than starting the better player in Taylor, he is hoping Poppinga can start and develop into a player he can finally claim as a "steal" in the draft and reassure us all of his "profound" ability to draft.

I hope to hell he's not picking the starters.

Guarantee you this is 100% TTs act. McCarthy said Taylor was one of the primary playmakers on TC, and McCarthy also said that TT picked the starters.


Well that sucks if true. I'm not in favor of hiring yes men to parrot my ideas.

[OS PA]

Whatever happened to Abdul Hodge?

[Bretsky]

The truth is this:

TT has yet to hit one out of the park with his draft picks that he values more than signing free agents. He knows the team is going to be bad this year, so rather than starting the better player in Taylor, he is hoping Poppinga can start and develop into a player he can finally claim as a "steal" in the draft and reassure us all of his "profound" ability to draft.

I hope to hell he's not picking the starters.

Guarantee you this is 100% TTs act. McCarthy said Taylor was one of the primary playmakers on TC, and McCarthy also said that TT picked the starters.


WAIT WAIT WAIT; I think we are misrepresenting information by saying TT picked the starters. I believe it was Jags commenting that they were going to get one of the young guys a start in the "preseason" because they wanted to see how he reacts. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't ever remember anybody saying TT picks the starters in the regular season and in all honesty, he shouldn't. And as you guys know I'll be the first to throw darts at TT, but I don't think he determines who plays and doesn't play in the regular season.

B

[Harlan Huckleby]

i think its option 3

TT wants his young rookies that he drafted to have every chance in the world to see if they can succeed, even if that means starting a rookie over a vet that might be a better player, but has less upside

The GM's priority is player development, putting a roster together that balances both short and long term needs.
The head coach is primarily focused on winning the next game.

The coach decides who starts. The coach is going to put the guys on the field each week that he thinks give him the best chance to win THAT game.

McCarthy evidently thinks Poppinga is better than Taylor. And given that Pop is fresh off injury and could benefit from a few weeks easing into the lineup, McCarthy must think Pop is significantly better.

Unless Poppinga gets injured, I don't see a change happening.

[Scott Campbell]

WAIT WAIT WAIT; I think we are misrepresenting information by saying TT picked the starters. I believe it was Jags commenting that they were going to get one of the young guys a start in the "preseason" because they wanted to see how he reacts. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't ever remember anybody saying TT picks the starters in the regular season and in all honesty, he shouldn't. And as you guys know I'll be the first to throw darts at TT, but I don't think he determines who plays and doesn't play in the regular season.

B


I sure hope you're right.

[Partial]

The truth is this:

TT has yet to hit one out of the park with his draft picks that he values more than signing free agents. He knows the team is going to be bad this year, so rather than starting the better player in Taylor, he is hoping Poppinga can start and develop into a player he can finally claim as a "steal" in the draft and reassure us all of his "profound" ability to draft.

I hope to hell he's not picking the starters.

Guarantee you this is 100% TTs act. McCarthy said Taylor was one of the primary playmakers on TC, and McCarthy also said that TT picked the starters.


WAIT WAIT WAIT; I think we are misrepresenting information by saying TT picked the starters. I believe it was Jags commenting that they were going to get one of the young guys a start in the "preseason" because they wanted to see how he reacts. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't ever remember anybody saying TT picks the starters in the regular season and in all honesty, he shouldn't. And as you guys know I'll be the first to throw darts at TT, but I don't think he determines who plays and doesn't play in the regular season.

B

I disagree with you. Ben Taylor is the type of guy the Packers won a super bowl with. Solid, but not spectacular. I really think of any reason that Poppinga is starting other than TT wants to claim A. he drafted more of the starters, B. to show he has a knack for adding starters (albeit shitty ones) through the draft. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Ain't NO WAY in hell that Thompson is telling McCarthy who to start at this point of the season. That's just plain ludicrous.

"Who is Ben Taylor?"

I'm guessing he's your starting SLB for the Green Bay Packers in week 3.

Maybe not. Maybe they will give Brady Pop a few more weeks to straighten things out.