Ted Thompson

[Ballboy]

This should come as no surprise that the Packers are struggling.

We all know that MOST coaches/GM are EGO-Maniacs. TT, given his boyish appearance is all but this. He came here to GB to build HIS team and win a championship with HIS guys....not some left-overs from the past.

You ask....why did he keep Brett? The answer is easy....to avoid loss in money and income as he is a fan favorite.

Why else would he bring in young players and let them play? You ask why is Sharper gone? Whale? Rivera? Flannigan? Diggs? Walker?

Sure some of these may have had other motives($$), but TT wants HIS team to win.

[Packnut]

This should come as no surprise that the Packers are struggling.

We all know that MOST coaches/GM are EGO-Maniacs. TT, given his boyish appearance is all but this. He came here to GB to build HIS team and win a championship with HIS guys....not some left-overs from the past.

You ask....why did he keep Brett? The answer is easy....to avoid loss in money and income as he is a fan favorite.

Why else would he bring in young players and let them play? You ask why is Sharper gone? Whale? Rivera? Flannigan? Diggs? Walker?

Sure some of these may have had other motives($$), but TT wants HIS team to win.


There is a distinct pattern for those who look hard enough. The facts are clear.

[MacCool606]

I know that people here feel the need to relax and wait for a couple of years, so TT can replenish the roster through the drafts. My problem is that, the 2006 Packer team is essentially an expansion team. Little experience, no time playing together, etc.
Why is it taken for granted that we will be winning and in the playoffs in 2 or 3 years. The people in Houston and Cleveland probably thought that too.
My point is that I have been a fan since I was 5 and can remember watching the games (that was in 1963), and I have seen this act before. Alot of hope, then disappointment. Teams like Pittsburgh went through tough times, but they were never taken all the way to zero.
One of my ex bosses used to say that if you don't learn from history you are destined to repeat it. I'm afraid that we are on that path. We are not guaranteed anything just because we are the Green Bay Packers.

[Scott Campbell]

I think the devil is in cahoots with the Chicago Bears, and together they orchastrated the hiring of Ted Thompson.

[Harlan Huckleby]

My problem is that, the 2006 Packer team is essentially an expansion team. Little experience, no time playing together, etc.
Why is it taken for granted that we will be winning and in the playoffs in 2 or 3 years. The people in Houston and Cleveland probably thought that too.

You make a very good point. There is no real advantage to sinking to 2-14. With free agency, 8-8 teams can restock just fine.

It's a black mark on Thompson that the team has sunk this low, if they do in fact finish worse than 4-12.

But even if they are horrible this year, it doesn't necessarily mean the team isn't set for a dramatic upswing.

[Partial]

I am going to go out on a limb and say that 1/6 of GMs maximum win a super bowl. I don't have much confidence in TT to get that done at this point. His track record is less than stellar, in my opinion.

[MJZiggy]

Partial, talk like that is just going to spur a whole other argument on TT's role in putting together the Seahawk roster and the dominant Packer roster before that...Ashes to ashes and that's what this horse has decomposed to he's been dead so long...

[vince]

I know that people here feel the need to relax and wait for a couple of years, so TT can replenish the roster through the drafts. My problem is that, the 2006 Packer team is essentially an expansion team. Little experience, no time playing together, etc.
Why is it taken for granted that we will be winning and in the playoffs in 2 or 3 years. The people in Houston and Cleveland probably thought that too.
My point is that I have been a fan since I was 5 and can remember watching the games (that was in 1963), and I have seen this act before. Alot of hope, then disappointment. Teams like Pittsburgh went through tough times, but they were never taken all the way to zero.
One of my ex bosses used to say that if you don't learn from history you are destined to repeat it. I'm afraid that we are on that path. We are not guaranteed anything just because we are the Green Bay Packers.
There is no question that IF the Packers aren't well on the path to glory within 2 or 3 years that TT will have failed in his efforts and will be fired. However, his strategies of building through the draft and making value-based free agent decisions are practically inarguable. Of course you can argue about who's "valuable" at what price and for how long - and who's not...

When you have a new coaching staff that you have to learn about, it doesn't make sense to go out and sign a bunch of free agents that may not be the right guys for how the new team comes together. As simple as it is to say that "losing is for losers" and throw around the "Green Bay Packer mystique is gone and it's unacceptable" perspective, the complex reality is that it takes time to build a sustainable winner. Continuously fighting the cap because you've consistently signed band-aids in order to maintain your perpetual 9-7, eek into the playoffs existence isn't what we as fans should want, IMO. In order to get what we should want, we had to take a step back in order to take two steps forward. You gotta break it down before you can rebuild it.

I think TT will do it sooner than 3 years. I have no doubt whatsoever that next year at this time, we'll ALL be singing a different tune - especially if Favre keeps himself in shape and comes back to lead the Pack again. He's still good folks, and next year, he'll even better, because his team around him will be better. If Brett retires after this year, then it'll take a little more time, because that adds a big question mark right in the middle of the equation...

Partial mentioned in this thread that only 1 in 6 GM's win a Super Bowl. That's because only 1 in 6 GM's have the balls to do it the way it MUST be done. They can't stand the heat of the fans' impatience, so they do things the riskless way that gets them no ultimate payoff by overpaying for FA's on the downside of their careers to make them competitive, but never elite, because they're constantly putting band-aids on their teams that lack the foundation of young depth that is needed when injuries come. They trade up in drafts, giving up draft picks, to get the exact person they want, only to see that individual not pan out into the sure-thing player they thought they were getting.

We're not there yet for sure, and the real gains probably won't come until the second half of the season, but when you look beyond this week and even next week, I am convinced we're on the way back.

Last week against the Bears was the bottom. Inexperienced coaches, inexperienced team, no timing, still learning and feeling each other out. As this team gains experience and learns more about itself, it will get better and better. Then, next offseason, when it knows more about itself, TT will be in a stronger position to sign the free agents that the team truly needs to help it succeed. Another draft to continue to build depth and add to the foundation of talent, and next year will be totally different.

I see a team with some holes to fill for sure - and some spots that will soon be holes... But overall, I see a team that has more talent than last year - albeit younger, more inexperienced talent that needs time to gain that experience - upon which the Packers will be able to substantially build around next year. They also have some aging people at some skilled positions...

It's been commented by a lot of people this week, but it appears that the ABSOLUTE FOUNDATION of the team - the D-line, is ready to stop the run consistently, and Kampman, with his superior work ethic both on and off the field, appears to have willed himself into a becoming superior D-lineman...

Hawk looked FAST out there for the first time against NO. You can't teach what he's got. The stuff he has to learn is now coming. LOOK OUT.

And Bush, who (here's a news flash) is going to be an absolute STUD if he stays healthy, couldn't shake Collins all game.

Woodson appears to be figuring things out, stepping up and getting his groove... Harris will be there. Manual can pop. Most of the big gains by NO were poor game planning by GB as a result of the coaches still learning about what they have - CORRECTABLE.

The coaches are learning about what works with this team too. Poppinga got burned for a big gain, and he's got work to do for sure, but in his defense, he got matched up with Joe Horn on the play. There's not a LB in the league that could have stayed with him there. That was simply an ill-advised switch when the tight end motioned wide and Woodson went outside to keep Poppinga inside.

The wins may be hard to come by this year - especially early, but we'll learn alot about what's needed next year as the year progresses, but I see some things to build around.

In the end, TT's methods are not for the impatient, and there are certainly less risky (but IMO ultimately less effective) ways to go about it. But I'm a high-risk, high-reward kind of guy. I accept the learning now because that's how you get back to the TOP.

Of course it isn't guaranteed, but I'd rather take the risk than trudge out a 9-7 team that never gets past the first round of the playoffs. That's what everyone else does, and that's why they don't win super bowls.

I've heard people say, "We should want to win every game, every year." I agree with that. Realistically achieving that means that we have to build the foundation. That's the state the Pittsburgh Steelers find themselves in... So go and check out the free agent signing history of the Steelers... Go on. I dare ya...

There's a right way to do it, and a wrong way to do it. Ted's doing it the right way. We're just at a point in the process that ain't much fun...

[MacCool606]

I'll give you that, and I'll try to remain optomistic. But, if I have to wait 30 years to get back to where we were just a few short years ago, I'll be in my late 70's. I could miss half of the games because they will play them during my nap time.

[Lurker64]

Seahawk fans were awfully disappointed two when their team was pretty mediocre for several years before they finally got it together. But that team drafted excellently (Sean Alexander, Steve Hutchinson, Michael Boulware, Darrell Jackson, Marcus Trufant, Ken Lucas, etc.) and became excellent.

I think Seattle is an excellent example of that Thompson knows how to draft. We can't get too when all of his projects fail, because if you make 11 picks a year you certainly aren't expecting all eleven of those guys to be stars. If you end up with a couple starters and a couple quality backups from a draft, it was a successful draft.

I think we need to wait longer than a year and two weeks to really condemn TT.

[FavreChild]

Well, if TT were our draft specialist, then I don't think there would be any complaints. But he's not. He's our lousy GM who is not respected.

[vince]

Well, if TT were our draft specialist, then I don't think there would be any complaints. But he's not. He's our lousy GM who is not respected.
I believe those people who disrespect him are wrong in their conclusions, and they will eat their words by next year.

[Scott Campbell]

Well, if TT were our draft specialist, then I don't think there would be any complaints. But he's not. He's our lousy GM who is not respected.
I believe those people who disrespect him are wrong in their conclusions, and they will eat their words by next year.

4-12. 0-2 start to this year. TT may very well turn it around and I hope he does, but people have every right to be dissapointed with the results thus far.

Of course those people who are calling for his termination already are just being silly, and don't get taken very seriously by the majority. And they're not the type to eat their words when they're wrong anyway.

[wist43]

I'm not calling for TT's head - yet.

When Wolfe came in in '92 he inherited a 4-12 team... the Packers went 9-7 that year. Wolfe traded for Favre, and stabalized the ship by bringing in some veterans who were near the end, but still had enough left in the tank to get the job done for one year.

While the vets were bringing stability to the situation, the young guys were learning... TT hasn't done that. TT has essentially thrown the young guys into the deep end of the pool to let them sink or swim.

Add that to the lack of veteran stability on the OL, and lack of play makers at the skill positions, and you have a team that really doesn't have much of a chance to win week in and week out.

TT has to bear the brunt of the criticism for that.

[Scott Campbell]

Add that to the lack of veteran stability on the OL.......

There weren't many of us who predicted the collapse of Clifton and Tauscher.

[vince]

Add that to the lack of veteran stability on the OL, and lack of play makers at the skill positions, and you have a team that really doesn't have much of a chance to win week in and week out.
I disagree with this assessment. Donald Driver is absolutely underappreciated apparently, and Greg Jennings is a playmaker - and he's only going to get better. Ahman Green can still play, notwithstanding some crucial mental blocks he seemed to have last week. Brett Favre still has more than enough to get the job done. I would be for getting a stud TE, but Bubba, also notwithstanding last week, has been a reliable target when tough yards have been needed...

IMO, and I believe Ted Thompson would agree, his big mistake was not finding a way to re-sign Wahle. He screwed that one up. And as Partial pointed out, noone would have predicted that most of the sacks that Brett has suffered to this point have been a result of Clifton or Tausch. Their play has been disappointing thus far.

When this team learns more about itself, and when the defense can all play together, I think the 06 Packers will be very competitive week in and week out. How many wins this year? Probably more losses than wins, but they'll be more and more competitive as time progresses.

[RashanGary]

Vince,

edit: this is about his post a few above, not the last one vince posted.

I think that might be the best post I've ever seen on packerrats. I don't know how to express full agreement any stronger than just saying I agree. but I AGREE!!!

Nice post, nice way to anylize it. As far as patients and taking risks go, that is Ted Thompson to a T. He's willing to go into a season with a crappy gaurd or a crappy RB because he couldn't get one of value the season before. He's willing to risk losing in the short term so that in the long term he will have a roster truely capable of winning the SB.

As far as vision goes, most people don't understand how the cap effects decisions. They don't realize how Pitts and Sea got where they are, but just want to get there now and know that a FA would help. What they forget to notice is that Pitt didn't sign any FA's to get where they are. They had losing seasons. They didn't reach or get impatiant. When the time was right and a few bounces went their way *Rothlisburger became great*, they won. That is how it's done.

Thompson will prove to be a very good GM IMHO. It won't happen overnight. Each year should be better than the one before and if a little luck goes our way *getting a HOF player at an important position* we'll have a really good chance of winning a SB. BTW, you don't get HOF players at important positions from FA. He has to hit big on at least one draft pick soon if we want to really compete over the next 5 years.

It's not a sure thing, but if he stays strong and doesn't cave into the pressures of short term victories he'll give himself a chance. He better damn well hit on a star player. Maybe that's Hawk and we're well on our way. Maybe it's Adrian Peterson and we're about to get lucky. Who knows but I truely believe he's taking the sound approach and while it hurts now, it won't be so brutally painfull in the years to come.

[Partial]

Vince,

edit: this is about his post a few above, not the last one vince posted.

I think that might be the best post I've ever seen on packerrats. I don't know how to express full agreement any stronger than just saying I agree. but I AGREE!!!

Nice post, nice way to anylize it. As far as patients and taking risks go, that is Ted Thompson to a T. He's willing to go into a season with a crappy gaurd or a crappy RB because he couldn't get one of value the season before. He's willing to risk losing in the short term so that in the long term he will have a roster truely capable of winning the SB.

As far as vision goes, most people don't understand how the cap effects decisions. They don't realize how Pitts and Sea got where they are, but just want to get there now and know that a FA would help. What theyJ forget to notice is that Pitt didn't sign any FA's to get where they are. They had losing seasons. They didn't reach or get impatiant. When the time was right and a few bounces went their way *Rothlisburger became great*, they won. That is how it's done.

Thompson will prove to be a very good GM IMHO. It won't happen overnight. Each year should be better than the one before and if a little luck goes our way *getting a HOF player at an important position* we'll have a really good chance of winning a SB. BTW, you don't get HOF players at important positions from FA. He has to hit big on at least one draft pick soon if we want to really compete over the next 5 years.

It's not a sure thing, but if he stays strong and doesn't cave into the pressures of short term victories he'll give himself a chance. He better damn well hit on a star player. Maybe that's Hawk and we're well on our way. Maybe it's Adrian Peterson and we're about to get lucky. Who knows but I truely believe he's taking the sound approach and while it hurts now, it won't be so brutally painfull in the years to come.

Assuming a GM has their job an average of 5 years. Assuming a different team wins the super bowl, that means only 1/6th of GMs actually win a superbowl. I have a very hard time seeing TT accomplish anything, because he his youth movement may or may not pan out. It is definitely worth note that while there are benefits of going young, the odds are also greater than these players fail to develop, sometimes due to not getting over the mental hump, some for other reasons. There have been no signs of any of this youth stepping up and becoming players yet. Will there be at the end of the year? I doubt it. Do I think some of these guys will be good in 4 years, yes I do, but I then they will be playing in their contract years looking to strike it big, and TT will have too many people to resign to be competitive and keep a roster in tact. Just food for though, i'm off to class.

edit - boy that was poorly written. I typed that at the very end of my java lab before I left the building to go to another class once I completed the work.

A few prime examples of what I have been saying are as follows:

Nick Collins - has he maxed out his potential? Physically he has to tools, but you see him making mental mistakes and being in bad position time and time again. He seems to have regressed this year. Does he have the mental capacity to handle this role? Nick Collins has shown flashes of potential that he could be a great player, but as for now and likely ever in my opinion, he will always only be a solid, slightly better than average starting safety. Solid in the box, and a liability in coverage.

Marviel Underwood - Has he maxed out his potential? He was looking good enough to be a satisfactory back-up in training camp, and now he is hurt. He already wasn't extremely fast, will he be able to recover? My guess is Underwood will be cut next year because he will have lost a step and isn't good enough to justify holding a roster spot for him.

Terrence Murphy - Bad luck. Still have to hold TT accountable, though. He had a second round pick and he is no longer with the team. Woulda, shoulda, coulda doesn't mean shit when it comes to evaluating TT.

Brady Poppinga - The Packers are praying to god he can turn out to be a solid starter at the very least so that they can justify TT building such a young team, and so they can feed to the media more how he is a draft aficionado. Reality is, he is a poor quality starter, and might turn out to be serviceable. Serviceable is pretty good for a 4th round pick, I suppose.

Junius Coston - On the team by default. They have no depth and he is horrid. He is far from being a solid back-up. He will not be on the roster next year. Anyone that thinks he is more than a career back-up is out of their minds.

Mike Hawkins - No longer on the team, and was only on it last year 'cause he could run and jump like the dickens and had ideal height. I think Hawkins will be a solid nickelback 4 years down the road.

Mike Montgomery - looks to be a good pick-up in the late rounds and will develop into a solid but unspectacular player in my opinion. Mike Sherman did this a few times, too, though.

Then, their is Will Whitticker and Craig Braigg - neither are on an NFL team today.

In my opinion, it looks like TT was able to find a late round find (Sherman seemed to do this every year) and be lackluster everywhere else. You would hope with 4 picks on the first day, next year you would have 4 solid starters out of those guys. At best, he will have 2 starters, and neither one is looking especially solid at this point.

This year, it looks like he did a little better. In my opinion, he played it safer and took the guys that were safe picks. Because of that fact, I don't we'll find any players who are top 2 at their position from this draft, but I think he'll find a lot of solid starters. However, having a team with 22 solid starters won't win you a superbowl.

For one, I am not sold that it was him that landed Walter Jones and Shawn Alexander. Perhaps it was dumb luck that they both turned into amazing players, or perhaps it was the scouts that saw that glimmer in them. Who knows. Secondly, there is ZERO evidence in place that displays even a glimmer of hope that he can have a repeat performance of landing to all-time players in the middle-bottom of the first round. His 2005 draft in reality was better or worse than a typical Sherman draft. If A-Rod turns out to be a stud, that will change, but if he is only middle of the pack starting QBs I don't think its any better of worse.

In his stint in Seattle, the team went 8-8 start, 6-10, 9-7, 7-9, 10-6. In his time there, his team went .500.

I am not at all sold on that he is the man for the job. I am not sold he is not either. The man-loving of TT has got to stop though. To this point, he has fielded awful teams and has appeared to have drafting skills on par with Mike Sherman. He seems to have the same knack for the free agent bust (overpaying, underperforming) where Bubba Franks = Cletius Hunt, Charles Woodson = Joe Johnson.

He has shown an inability to judge his own talent and is has made the idiotic and fatal mistake of thinking his awful guards were skilled enough to handle the starting job. A mistake that could turn two would-be good players into career back-ups because of losing all their confidence due to excessively losing and getting beat and getting the glare from the great #4.

[MJZiggy]

There have been no signs of any of this youth stepping up and becoming players yet. Will there be at the end of the year? I doubt it.

Jennings, Hawk, Spitz, Collins, Barnett, Wells (even Colledge) all have the ability to step up and be players at any time. They have shown flashes of it and will consistently improve this season because they all work their asses off for it right now. This season. Were they "playmakers" in the preseason? I'd like to say that Jennings was, Hawk was already showing signs. I don't buy for a minute that there is no talent or immediate playmaking ability on the youth of this team. Once they get into a groove, Christl will have an open invitation to bite my ass for the "lack of playmakers" comments that he will be proven wrong about by the end of the season. Too many people are buying into that foolishness.

[Partial]

There have been no signs of any of this youth stepping up and becoming players yet. Will there be at the end of the year? I doubt it.

Jennings, Hawk, Spitz, Collins, Barnett, Wells (even Colledge) all have the ability to step up and be players at any time. They have shown flashes of it and will consistently improve this season because they all work their asses off for it right now. This season. Were they "playmakers" in the preseason? I'd like to say that Jennings was, Hawk was already showing signs. I don't buy for a minute that there is no talent or immediate playmaking ability on the youth of this team. Once they get into a groove, Christl will have an open invitation to bite my ass for the "lack of playmakers" comments that he will be proven wrong about by the end of the season. Too many people are buying into that foolishness.

I remember a young team that was loaded with "playmakers and high first round picks" They had "the next randy moss" drafted #2, Roy Williams at #6, and Mike Williams (the best touchdown target to enter the league in year!) at #10. They also drafted Joey "no confidence" Harrington #3 overall. To finalize one of the most potent offensives of young playmakers, they drafted Kevin Jones with the 30th pick in the draft. This, all in addition to using a first round pick on Jeff Backus, and I believe a second round pick on Dominc Raliola just to name a few. Going too young is an awful idea and can stunt the development of players. This is a prime example of that happening.

The Packers guys haven't shown consistent signs of being good players. Everyone has flashes occasionally. Until they can elevate there game consistently, I am not sold that a single one will be an upper-echelon player.

[RashanGary]

Partial,

I will express never dieing, man love for TT untill he's proven to be a crappy GM.

I believe in pretty much every thing he says. I believe in not doing something that will bring about a gain in the short term, but rather focusing on the big picture and doing what you believe will be the best decision looking back at the big picture.

I believe in his abilities to draft well, partially just because he's shown confidence *I know..What a reason* and partially because of the track record of the teams he's worked for.

Last years draft disappoints me a little but he's shown the ability to move on from a mistake. If this draft ends up looking as bad as last draft, I'll start to jump off his band wagon. Rodgers could make his first draft a solid B if he's a good starter like Dilfer or Brad Johnson but I'm not really banking on that. As far as this draft goes, it looks better from teh onset. Even the gaurds, who have been beat up a bit in the run game, have protected decent for he pass. They look better than any starter last year.

Anyway, I think this draft is good and I think more of his future drafts will look similar. If he has more drafts like his first and less like his second, I'll jump off his ship. As for now, I believe in what he says. I believe in focusing on the big picture. I think over time, it will work out great.

Ziggy,

I agree. I think we have 2 playmakers :wink: but I'm not going to toot Thompsons horn that loudly. I don't like to go out on limbs anymore and my love for Thompson is far enough already :lol:

[Partial]

Partial,

I will express never dieing, man love for TT untill he's proven to be a crappy GM.

I believe in pretty much every thing he says. I believe in not doing something that will bring about a gain in the short term, but rather focusing on the big picture and doing what you believe will be the best decision looking back at the big picture.

I believe in his abilities to draft well, partially just because he's shown confidence *I know..What a reason* and partially because of the track record of the teams he's worked for.

Last years draft disappoints me a little but he's shown the ability to move on from a mistake. If this draft ends up looking as bad as last draft, I'll start to jump off his band wagon. Rodgers could make his first draft a solid B if he's a good starter like Dilfer or Brad Johnson but I'm not really banking on that. As far as this draft goes, it looks better from teh onset. Even the gaurds, who have been beat up a bit in the run game, have protected decent for he pass. They look better than any starter last year.

Anyway, I think this draft is good and I think more of his future drafts will look similar. If he has more drafts like his first and less like his second, I'll jump off his ship. As for now, I believe in what he says. I believe in focusing on the big picture. I think over time, it will work out great.

Ziggy,

I agree. I think we have 2 playmakers :wink: but I'm not going to toot Thompsons horn that loudly. I don't like to go out on limbs anymore and my love for Thompson is far enough already :lol:

So, ok, his player are all good by their 4th year. They all want big salaries. What does TT do now?

[RashanGary]

We keep them. Our salary cap is set up to do just that.

We're not going to be this young forever. The only reason we are now is becuase Thompson hated pretty much everything about Shermans roster and believed it was time to part ways with EVERYONE.

[Partial]

We keep them. Our salary cap is set up to do just that.

We're not going to be this young forever. The only reason we are now is becuase Thompson hated pretty much everything about Shermans roster and believed it was time to part ways with EVERYONE.

So what is the difference between TT's roster and Sherman's? TT has close to average NFL starters drafted at the top, and a few decent players in the lower rounds.

How do you figure the cap is set-up to do that? There is no way they can keep paying high first round picks until they are competitive. It just does not work that way.

[MJZiggy]

I don't think every one of the rookie contracts comes due at the same time. I thought Hawk signed on for 6 years, not 4, so his comes due in a different year and last years' rookies come due a year sooner than this years. And they will all likely be paid on a sliding scale depending upon their performance, not to mention that some of them will be locked up during the season the year before to eat up the cap space that TT seems to be overrun with lately. I think TT has shown that he has good enough vision not to get himself stuck in the mess that Sherman always had to deal with. Besides, every GM should have the problem of having so many of his players become huge impact guys.

[Partial]

I think the way he handles Barnett will be very telling as to how far his team will go. Barnett will be one of the most overpaid players in the NFL soon.

[HarveyWallbangers]

So what is the difference between TT's roster and Sherman's? TT has close to average NFL starters drafted at the top, and a few decent players in the lower rounds.

How do you figure the cap is set-up to do that? There is no way they can keep paying high first round picks until they are competitive. It just does not work that way.

Sherman's roster was full of players acquired by Ron Wolf. That is the difference. There's little doubt we are in the mess that we are in because of the pathetic drafts we had from 2001-2004. Sherman was a big part of that.

Here's the list of players still on the team from those drafts:

Robert Ferguson, Scott Wells, Corey Williams, Aaron Kampman, Ahmad Carroll, Nick Barnett, and David Martin. We'll give him credit for Javon Walker also. He also acquired Al Harris via a draft pick. That's a pretty pathetic and small group.

Who did Sherman mostly win with? Brett Favre, Ahman Green, Donald Driver, Chad Clifton, Mark Tauscher, Ryan Longwell, KGB, Mike Flanagan, Marco Rivera, William Henderson, Bubba Franks, Na'il Diggs, Darren Sharper. Guys that Ron Wolf acquired. When those guys got old, we didn't have any young players to replace them OR we didn't have the salary cap room to resign some of them (thanks to guys like Joe Johnson and Cletidus Hunt).

[MacCool606]

Ron Wolf also won the Mike Holmgren sweepstakes, then helped him assemble an all-star coaching staff. The GM gets the players, the Coaches build them into a team.
If we had a proven coach with a good staff I would be a bit more comfortable. No knock on MM, but there isn't much history on his side. There are a couple of coaches I like on the staff, but it seems most are first year in their position. If they all came from successful programs that would help - but how many did?

[RashanGary]

off to work.

Nice point HW.....Sherman won with Wolfs playmakers. Favre, Green, Sharper, McKeinzie ect....

Walker helped for 1 year but thta is all Sherman got in his drafts.

[Guiness]

Sorry Partial - I have to take exception with your equating TT and Sherman's drafting.

Their styles are entirely unlike each other. Sherman fell in love with players, and did everything he could to get the guy he wanted. TT stands pat, lets the draft come to him, and takes what it gives him.

You can argue that their result thus far have been similar - even if their talent evaluation skills are similar (and they might be - at the end of the day, most of the scouting staff is the same) TT's style will get him more to work with, and should yield better results.

[Partial]

So what is the difference between TT's roster and Sherman's? TT has close to average NFL starters drafted at the top, and a few decent players in the lower rounds.

How do you figure the cap is set-up to do that? There is no way they can keep paying high first round picks until they are competitive. It just does not work that way.

Sherman's roster was full of players acquired by Ron Wolf. That is the difference. There's little doubt we are in the mess that we are in because of the pathetic drafts we had from 2001-2004. Sherman was a big part of that.

Here's the list of players still on the team from those drafts:

Robert Ferguson, Scott Wells, Corey Williams, Aaron Kampman, Ahmad Carroll, Nick Barnett, and David Martin. We'll give him credit for Javon Walker also. He also acquired Al Harris via a draft pick. That's a pretty pathetic and small group.

Who did Sherman mostly win with? Brett Favre, Ahman Green, Donald Driver, Chad Clifton, Mark Tauscher, Ryan Longwell, KGB, Mike Flanagan, Marco Rivera, William Henderson, Bubba Franks, Na'il Diggs, Darren Sharper. Guys that Ron Wolf acquired. When those guys got old, we didn't have any young players to replace them OR we didn't have the salary cap room to resign some of them (thanks to guys like Joe Johnson and Cletidus Hunt).

I don't disagree with you, I am playing devil's advocate. If we give Mike Sherman credit for Javon Walker, we can give TT credit for AJ Hawk.

Simply put, he hasn't shown to be a better YET than Sherman. His first draft was poor. We can all agree there.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Simply put, he hasn't shown to be a better YET than Sherman. His first draft was poor. We can all agree there.

I wouldn't agree yet. Give it a year or two. If Aaron Rodgers turns into a solid starting QB, it will look a lot better. If Nick Collins develops, it will look a lot better. You can't close the book on Brady Poppinga, Mike Montgomery, Marviel Underwood, and Junius Coston either. We'll see. It looks below average at this point, but there are still players that could develop. It's also hard to fault Thompson for the loss of Terrence Murphy. He looked like a really nice prospect--who didn't have injury concerns coming out of college.

The thing I like about Thompson is that he knows the draft is a crapshoot, so he gathers picks. If you have 12 picks and 6 don't pan out right away, there are still 6 guys left that could turn into something.

This draft looks a lot better, but the draft position helped a lot.

[esoxx]

Partial,

I will express never dieing, man love for TT untill he's proven to be a crappy GM.

I believe in pretty much every thing he says. I believe in not doing something that will bring about a gain in the short term, but rather focusing on the big picture and doing what you believe will be the best decision looking back at the big picture.




You mean like signing Koren Robinson? Talk about reaching for short term gain..

[MJZiggy]

Koren may be reaching for a short-term gain, but the deal contains no long-term cap ramifications. None. TT can cut him next week and it won't hurt us. How many of Sherman's short-term gain deals were set up like that?

[Partial]

Koren may be reaching for a short-term gain, but the deal contains no long-term cap ramifications. None. TT can cut him next week and it won't hurt us. How many of Sherman's short-term gain deals were set up like that?

Probably all of them. My point is this:

If Sherman was a 1/10 on putting a quality team on the field as a GM,
TY is a 2/10 thus far at best. I don't see the harm is signing a few veterans to short term deals to help the youngens learn there way. No cap ramifications and lets the youngens learn on the bench (where they should).

[Scott Campbell]

This draft looks a lot better, but the draft position helped a lot.


So did getting the pick(s) for Walker.

[RashanGary]

So, ok, his player are all good by their 4th year. They all want big salaries. What does TT do now?


We keep them. Our salary cap is set up to do just that.

We're not going to be this young forever. The only reason we are now is becuase Thompson hated pretty much everything about Shermans roster and believed it was time to part ways with EVERYONE.

4 years ago