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motife
09-19-2006, 03:25 PM
Rating the Packers vs. Saints: Golden opportunity slips away
Posted: Sept. 18, 2006
On the Packers
Bob McGinn

Green Bay - At times over the next three months, the Green Bay Packers will have no chance in games because their opponent will be superior or they'll just play terrible football.

Neither was the case Sunday at Lambeau Field, which is why the Packers' 34-27 loss to the New Orleans Saints was so painful. Any way you slice it, the Packers lost at home to a team that was worse than them last season.

Here is a rating of the Packers, with their 1 to 5 football totals in parentheses:

RECEIVERS (3)

Donald Driver caught eight of the 10 passes thrown to him for 153 yards, including 52 after the catch. It was quite a show. Humbling Mike McKenzie at the line. Breaking two tackles to turn a quick glance into 48 yards. Making tough catches in traffic on three third downs. Outrunning McKenzie to the corner on a reverse. Maybe Brett Favre should start feeding Driver as he once fed Sterling Sharpe. McKenzie also was victimized on a rub route in which he ran into S Roman Harper and gave up a 23-yard TD to Greg Jennings. It was a beautifully designed play and a gorgeous route by Jennings. As good as Driver was, Bubba Franks was just as bad in the worst game of his career. He had two dropped passes, was responsible for 1½ "bad" runs and one-half sack, drew false-start and unsportsmanlike conduct penalties, was saved a fumble by the ground and moved sluggishly. The coaches obviously wanted to get Franks the ball this week, too. David Martin did some solid work as a receiver but blew a cut block on DE Charles Grant that enabled him to crush Ahman Green on his lost fumble.

OFFENSIVE LINE (2)

There was a stark difference in the performance of the tackles compared to the guards. Chad Clifton was physically manhandled a time or two in the run game but was able to pitch a protection shutout against speedy RE Will Smith. On the other side, Mark Tauscher played well against Grant, another top-flight end. LG Daryn Colledge made his first start for injured Jason Spitz. He didn't get much movement as a drive blocker, struggled on some cut blocks and had problems in protection even though the entire protection scheme was designed to hide him and RG Tony Moll. Until Colledge improves his flexibility, strength and aggressiveness, he won't be the answer. Moll was trashed a few times by hulking NT Hollis Thomas and had a role in three pressures. Saints coordinator Gary Gibbs blitzed on merely 9% of passes, making it easy on the rookies.

QUARTERBACKS (3½)

Favre still can make sensational throws. Witness the TD pass to Jennings, the 22-yard corner route to Driver and the 42-yard corner to Driver. There wasn't much of a window on any of them and yet he was able to put the ball in the perfect spot. Arm strength never has been a concern. Favre simply lacked accuracy last season on intermediate and deep throws. Convert the six drops into completions and he would have hit 67.3% of 55 passes for almost 400 yards. Favre has had to make adjustments to fit the system. Mike McCarthy didn't call even one seven-step drop. He had Favre in the shotgun 46 times. And he kept dashing him toward one side so the guards would have an easier time in protection. Favre has been patient, sometimes overly so. He held the ball too long on both sacks and his only interception. In the end, with a shot for overtime hanging in the balance, he threw a horrible pass on fourth down and that was it.

RUNNING BACKS (1)

The offensive line isn't moving people off the ball at all. And now, without Vonta Leach, the lead-blocking by William Henderson, Martin and Franks is marginal. So it isn't as if Green has cracks that he isn't seeing. At times, he might be a tad cutback conscious, but with a mass of bodies at the point he's just trying to find some daylight. Still, Green (65 snaps) hasn't been able to create much of anything on his own. He's getting what's blocked and not much else. After dropping merely six of 154 passes from 2003-'05, he dropped two Sunday. Not only that but he also fumbled twice, losing one. Noah Herron (12) was the victim of woeful blocking on two of his three carries but also ran a nice route and scored. Henderson's return to action numbered merely 13 snaps.

DEFENSIVE LINE (2½)

Cullen Jenkins (37 snaps) started ahead of Colin Cole (32) and had the better game. Jenkins set up a sack for Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila with a nasty spin move against LG Jamar Nesbit and made his usual assortment of hustle plays. Cole was just plain soft on both of Deuce McAllister's TD runs. Each time, he was stood up and moved off the ball. "KGB" had a mildly disappointing day working the edges against LT Jammal Brown, who has had major difficulty against speed, and also was blown away on McAllister's decisive TD. Coach Sean Payton ended up double-teaming him on just 32% of passes. When Payton foolishly tried to block Aaron Kampman with TE Mark Campbell, the result was two of Kampman's three sacks. Kampman blew the flare responsibility on a 24-yard pass to a wide-open McAllister. On the play, coordinator Bob Sanders rushed six for only one of two times all day. With Kenderick Allen inactive, Ryan Pickett (37) played extensively and stacked the point with gusto.

LINEBACKERS (2)

Torched again this week, Brady Poppinga's limitations in coverage are undermining the defense. He was late to the flat on two short-yardage passes, appeared almost helpless matched against Horn in the slot on what turned out to be a 57-yard completion and dropped an interception. Veteran Ben Taylor remains an option. If not, the coaches must keep Poppinga off islands until he has more time to develop. The speed of A.J. Hawk was instrumental in keeping a governor on Reggie Bush. Hawk bounced around, ran hard to the ball and showed pride at least trying to get off blocks. Nick Barnett gave up a 23-yard swing pass to Bush when he paused against the rookie's amazing stutter step instead of continuing full-bore and using the sideline as his ally.

SECONDARY (2)

The standout was Al Harris. Drew Brees didn't do any business against his tight bump-and-run coverage. On the other side, Charles Woodson floated around, gave too much cushion at times but otherwise was solid. Nickel back Ahmad Carroll played a ton and did some good things against run and pass. But Carroll's afternoon will be remembered for the 26-yard TD pass to Devery Henderson when, in a three-deep zone and Marquand Manuel responsible for the slant, he didn't stay over the top on a slant-and-go. Henderson didn't even sell the route that well. Nick Collins also bit on a play-fake that led to a 35-yard TD pass and was burned by a tight end (Campbell) on a deep sideline pattern that he almost seemed to be loafing on. Collins' speed and toughness were evident much of the day but anyone who thinks he can cover is kidding himself. Jarrett Bush, the No. 4 cornerback, looked shaky.

KICKERS (3½)

Dave Rayner took advantage of having the wind at his back on all six kickoffs, averaging 73.7 yards and 4.07 seconds of hang time. Jon Ryan punted six times, averaging 47.7 (gross), 37.0 (net) and 3.96 (hang time).

SPECIAL TEAMS (3)

Koren Robinson certainly wasn't anything special in his debut on kickoff returns. He didn't show much burst, carried the ball too loosely, mishandled two balls and got into tiffs twice. At least Woodson is a confident catcher on punts. Donald Lee helped the coverage units regain a measure of respectability.

OVERALL (2)

packrulz
09-19-2006, 03:46 PM
The secondary is the problem, I expected better out of Manuel and Woodson, if they can turn it up it would help.

wist43
09-19-2006, 07:39 PM
McGinn was pretty easy going on the DB's... I watched the game live, and have gone thru most of it one more time - I thought they looked absolutely atrocious.

No excuse for how poorly they played. They looked completely unprepared - biting on double moves, lining up improperly at the snap, playing far too loose in coverage, et al.

Woodson was a disaster again - amazingly McGinn lobs him some minor praise;Carroll was an embarrasment on the TD to Henderson; and God knows what Collins was doing half the game. In short, the Packers back seven presented no resistance to Brees and the Saints.

Schottenheimer is a complete disaster - AGAIN!!!!! :evil:

MacCool606
09-19-2006, 08:15 PM
I think the lack of a real pass rush exposes all of the weaknesses of the secondary. Allowing the QB all the time he needs will sink anyone. But I am on the fire Schottenheimer bandwagon. We suffered through a season with him already. I think we have paid our dues. How can this guy be considered a Secondary coach - has he been considered successful anywhere? ever?

Harlan Huckleby
09-19-2006, 08:18 PM
Torched again this week, Brady Poppinga's limitations in coverage are undermining the defense. He was late to the flat on two short-yardage passes, appeared almost helpless matched against Horn in the slot on what turned out to be a 57-yard completion

I was surprised that a linebacker would be expected to stay with a wide receiver, man-on-man, in a deep post pattern.

Maybe linebackers have evolved into being safeties. You certainly would see Tim Harris running all over the field with wide recievers.

Deputy Nutz
09-19-2006, 08:29 PM
"KGB" had a mildly disappointing day working the edges against LT Jammal Brown, who has had major difficulty against speed, and also was blown away on McAllister's decisive TD.

I basically said the same thing on Sunday in my Winners and Losers and some disagreed with me. Half the time during his pass rush he didn't even get up field, he just got jammed at the line of scrimmage and embarassed by Brown.

One sack ain't shit unless you keep the pressure on the rest of the day, which he didn't do, in fact his one sack was a gift from Cullen Jenkins.

Bossman641
09-19-2006, 08:34 PM
I pretty much agree with his assessment except I would have graded the secondary a little worse. They seem to have so much trouble getting everyone properly assigned before the snap.

I was unhappy with the release on Leach at the time and this last game made me miss him even more. Henderson is a fantastic pass-catching FB but he no longer is a sledgehammer as a lead blocker.

Leach is a bit inconsistent in his lead-blocking and misses some blocks but he packs a hell of a punch. He cleared the way for Ahman a number of times in the Bears game. The thought of David Martin lead-blocking is laughable.

pbmax
09-19-2006, 10:04 PM
Torched again this week, Brady Poppinga's limitations in coverage are undermining the defense. He was late to the flat on two short-yardage passes, appeared almost helpless matched against Horn in the slot on what turned out to be a 57-yard completion

I was surprised that a linebacker would be expected to stay with a wide receiver, man-on-man, in a deep post pattern.

Maybe linebackers have evolved into being safeties. You certainly would see Tim Harris running all over the field with wide recievers.
The LB shouldn't be expected to stay with him all over the field, there should have been help somewhere.

Poppinga also said they were calling coverage audibles to give Bush outside to the CB. Pop should stay inside, where there is more help, regardless of which body, unless its a slower TE.

HarveyWallbangers
09-20-2006, 12:01 AM
I basically said the same thing on Sunday in my Winners and Losers and some disagreed with me.

Did they disagree with you or did they just correctly point out that KGB had a sack and forced fumble after you said that his name wasn't called once all game?

wist43
09-20-2006, 07:21 AM
A lot of the problems the Packers are experiencing on the defensive side of the ball are coaching related.

I have come to hate the defensive system... it's far too passive, and doesn't afford the LB's enough opportunities to penetrate and make plays in the backfield.

Along those lines, the Packers are not using Poppinga properly. Granted, Poppinga covering Horn is the result of Horn passing thru his underneath zone, but still the coaching staff is doing a poor job of putting players in positions to make plays.

mission
09-20-2006, 09:11 AM
Torched again this week, Brady Poppinga's limitations in coverage are undermining the defense. He was late to the flat on two short-yardage passes, appeared almost helpless matched against Horn in the slot on what turned out to be a 57-yard completion

I was surprised that a linebacker would be expected to stay with a wide receiver, man-on-man, in a deep post pattern.

Maybe linebackers have evolved into being safeties. You certainly would see Tim Harris running all over the field with wide recievers.
The LB shouldn't be expected to stay with him all over the field, there should have been help somewhere.

Poppinga also said they were calling coverage audibles to give Bush outside to the CB. Pop should stay inside, where there is more help, regardless of which body, unless its a slower TE.

yep! it was a cover 2 according to MM where Pop was supposed to have the inside flat / hook-to-curl zone with anything on a crossing route getting picked up by the other side H2C coverage or at least a safety over the top. that didnt happen -- another breakdown in coverage (but not 100% pop's fault) -- and they scored a TD. the tale of our season so far... :cry:

Patler
09-20-2006, 09:20 AM
yep! it was a cover 2 according to MM where Pop was supposed to have the inside flat / hook-to-curl zone with anything on a crossing route getting picked up by the other side H2C coverage or at least a safety over the top. that didnt happen -- another breakdown in coverage (but not 100% pop's fault) -- and they scored a TD. the tale of our season so far... :cry:

I think it was mostly Poppinga's responsibility. He is supposed to take away the inside route, forcing the receiver to the outside where the safety help will come from. Poppinga completely gave away the inside route, and was beaten right off the snap.

mission
09-20-2006, 09:25 AM
yep! it was a cover 2 according to MM where Pop was supposed to have the inside flat / hook-to-curl zone with anything on a crossing route getting picked up by the other side H2C coverage or at least a safety over the top. that didnt happen -- another breakdown in coverage (but not 100% pop's fault) -- and they scored a TD. the tale of our season so far... :cry:

I think it was mostly Poppinga's responsibility. He is supposed to take away the inside route, forcing the receiver to the outside where the safety help will come from. Poppinga completely gave away the inside route, and was beaten right off the snap.

you're right. i just reread MM's comments about the play.

wist43
09-20-2006, 11:43 AM
I don't think we're back to playing at 2004's disasterous level, but based on what happened on Sunday, we're not that far off from that.

How can Schottenheimer escape blame??? In 2004, it was one guy on this play, or another guy on that play, and always with the refrain "we'll get it fixed"... That seems to be where we're at now... Schottenheimer and confusion in the secondary seem to be synonomous.

It's hard to evaluate, or blame, players when you have captain chaos as your secondary coach.

Partial
09-20-2006, 12:00 PM
I don't think we're back to playing at 2004's disasterous level, but based on what happened on Sunday, we're not that far off from that.

How can Schottenheimer escape blame??? In 2004, it was one guy on this play, or another guy on that play, and always with the refrain "we'll get it fixed"... That seems to be where we're at now... Schottenheimer and confusion in the secondary seem to be synonomous.

It's hard to evaluate, or blame, players when you have captain chaos as your secondary coach.

I don't so much mind the offensive staff, and I thought the dline played out of their minds last year due to Sanders and Nunn's coaching. Perhaps it was just Bates after all. I wish we would have brought in Donnie Henderson. His hybrid 3-4, 4-3 would work very well with our personel. Detroit is lucky to have him.