PDA

View Full Version : Christl blog on GB/NO and aftermath



motife
09-19-2006, 03:28 PM
TUESDAY, Sept. 19, 2006, 12:20 p.m.

Favre's errant throws
Brett Favre played well Sunday, but the last two passes of the game were off the mark. On the one hand, it's nothing out of the ordinary for any quarterback to make successive bad throws. Tiger Woods, arguably the greatest athlete in the world, will hit two bad golf shots in a row. But Favre's accuracy isn't what it was. Along with his inability to make big plays out of broken plays, Favre's accuracy is the other part of his game that is waning.

TUESDAY, Sept. 19, 2006, 12:13 p.m.

Did you see Walker's catch?
It was Javon Walker's 24-yard reception over cornerback Ty Law that set up Denver's winning field goal Sunday. The play illustrated Walker's big-play ability and was typical of some of his big plays in Green Bay: The ball was underthrown, he adjusted and got his body in position to win a jump ball.

In a close game like the Packers had Sunday, Walker might have been the difference.

TUESDAY, Sept. 19, 2006, 12:08 p.m.

More on Reggie Bush
It's still hard to believe that the Houston Texans passed on Reggie Bush. He looks like a superstar in the making.

Even though the Packers did a good job of corraling him Sunday, one could make the argument that he was the difference between the two teams.

At wide receiver, the Saints' Joe Horn might have been better at one time, but Donald Driver probably is better now. Running backs Deuce McAllister and Ahman Green have both been premier backs and are coming off season-ending injuries. Brett Favre is an aging quarterback; Drew Brees is coming back from a serious shoulder injury. Both teams have holes across the offensive line.

Defensively, the strength of both teams might be their ends.

Bush gained more than 100 yards and dictated the Packers' defensive alignment on every single play. The Packers had nobody to match him.

But if there was one thing about Bush's play that raised an eyebrow, it was that he took everything to the sideline. To be a great pro, he's going to have to make some tough yards at times, too.

MONDAY, Sept. 18, 2006, 2:26 p.m.

Where's Koren Robinson's head?
Tight end Bubba Franks might have inadvertently grazed an official on his penalty, but he was hardly deserving of it.

On the other hand, Koren Robinson could have been penalized or maybe even ejected for taking a swing at Jason Craft following a kickoff return and resisting an official, who stepped between the two players.

MONDAY, Sept. 18, 2006, 2:21 p.m.

Packers vs. Reggie Bush
The Packers designed their game plan to stop Reggie Bush and they did a good job. It was big plays by other players that won the game for New Orleans. But Bush also drew constant attention, which might have been a factor in the Saints’ win; four-, five- and six-yarded the Packers to death if you count his punt returns; and finished with 109 total yards on 18 touches, a 6.1 average.

Here were the 18 plays:
First Quarter
1) Bush gained six yards on a first down reverse and it might have gone for bigger yardage if cornerback Ahmad Carroll hadn’t stayed home, played off a block and made a sure open-field tackle.
2) Bush was dropped for a one-yard loss on the first play of the Saints’ second series when defensive end Aaron Kampman held the point, played off the block and made the tackle.
3) Bush caught a short pass over the middle in the area left vacant by blitzing linebacker Nick Barnett and turned it into a 12-yard gain on second-and-10. Three plays later, the Saints’ drive ended with an interception.
4) Bush was held to one yard on a second-and-10 run. Defensive end Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila got initial penetration, Carroll forced Bush even wider and linebacker A.J. Hawk bounced off a block to make the tackle.
5) Bush was held to 2 yards on a pass in the left flat on third-and-nine when safety Nick Collins made a sure open field tackle.

Second Quarter
6) Bush was held to no gain on a second-and-four run when he tried to break outside and cornerback Charles Woodson played off a block to push him out of bounds.
7) On third-and-eight, Bush caught a pass in the left flat and turned it into a 10-yard gain. Three plays later, the Saints scored their first touchdown.
8) Bush returned a punt five yards all on his own after Carroll, as the gunner, beat the block and got downfield in a hurry, received some help from Ruvell Martin and forced Bush to the sideline, where Donald Lee shoved him out of bounds.
9) Bush was held to no gain on a second-and-one play. Defensive end Michael Montgomery strung the play out long enough for Bush to be gang tackled by Hawk, defensive tackle Ryan Pickett and others.
10) Bush returned the final punt of the first half 14 yards before Ben Taylor got under his legs and Abdul Hodge pushed him out of bounds.

Third Quarter
11) On Bush’s first punt return of the second half, which went for seven yards, Carroll held contain and Brady Poppinga made the tackle.
12) On his first gain from scrimmage in the second half, Bush beat Barnett for 23 yards on a flair pass to the left.
13) Bush set up a 47-yard John Carney field goal by coming out of the backfield and catching a six-yard pass on second-and-10 from the Packers’ 35. But Collins made a nice play to push Bush out of bounds.

Fourth Quarter
14) Bush returned a punt 10 yards, but Taylor forced him to cut back and Lee and Abdul Hodge combined on the tackle.
15) Bush caught a swing pass to the left, but it went for only four yards when Collins pushed him out of bounds.
16) On the next play, third-and-six, Bush was flanked out, caught a short pass and ran for the first down four plays before the Saints scored their go-ahead touchdown. Collins was in coverage and the play gained only seven yards, but it allowed the Saints to keep the ball.
17) Bush was dropped for a yard loss when defensive tackle Cullen Jenkins penetrated, forcing the play wide, and Hawk chased him down.
18) On third-and-nine, Bush caught a wide receiver screen, but was stopped for a mere three-yard gain on a good, open-field tackle by Collins. That forced a punt and gave the Packers one last shot at tying the score.

My scorecard shows that the Packers made good defensive or special teams plays on 12 of the 18 snaps. Bush got the best of them on six others. Giving one point for each good play by the Packers, here were their scores: Collins, 4; Carroll, 2 5/6; Hawk, 1 1/3; Kampman, 1; Woodson, 1; Montgomery, ½; Poppinga, ½; Jenkins, ½; and Gbaja-Biamila, 1/3.

Here’s what probably drives coaches nuts. Collins, who made four good plays against Bush, also allowed a 13-yard pass to backup wide receiver Devery Henderson; fell down and allowed a 33-yard pass to slow-footed backup tight end Mark Campbell; and was burned by seventh-round draft pick Marques Colston for a 35-yard touchdown. Collins also got beat by fourth receiver Lance Moore on what might have been another big play in a third-and-six situation in the second half. But Moore dropped the ball.

Carroll, who had two good plays and shared in two others, also was beaten on a 26-yard touchdown pass by Henderson and was penalized for pass interference on the play before Colston’s touchdown.

MONDAY, Sept. 18, 2006, 1:41 p.m.

Five-man front backfires
When the Saints scored their go-ahead touchdown in the second quarter, they converted two short yardage plays into first downs: One on a third-and-one when Aaron Stecker caught a seven-yard pass out of the backfield and the other a fourth-and-one when fullback Corey McIntyre caught a 10-yard pass out of the backfield. On both plays, the Packers were in a five-man defensive line. On the first pass, middle linebacker Nick Barnett couldn't get over to cover Stecker and outside linebacker Brady Poppinga couldn't get over to help. Poppinga was beaten on the second play.

MONDAY, Sept. 18, 2006, 1:39 p.m.

Woodson picks it up
Cornerback Charles Woodson gave up a 10-yard slant to rookie wide receiver Marques Colston, got beat by wide receiver Devery Henderson for what would have been a nice gain if the ball hadn’t been dropped and gave up a 6-yard out to wide receiver Joe Horn, all in the first 19 minutes 15 seconds. Thereafter, Woodson played more physical and much better.

MONDAY, Sept. 18, 2006, 1:38 p.m.

Hurry-up offense
The Packers ran a hurry-up offense with a quick huddle on their third possession of the first half and their sixth possession of the second half. In the first half, they drove 75 yards in eight plays to score on a 36-yard Dave Rayner field goal. In the second half, they marched 80 yards in nine plays and scored on a 4-yard Brett Favre to Robert Ferguson pass. The Packers also used it on their last series.

MONDAY, Sept. 18, 2006, 1:34 p.m.

Six dropped balls
Coach Mike McCarthy said the Packers dropped six passes in Sunday's game. Tight end Bubba Franks and running back Ahman Green each had two; wide receiver Greg Jennings had one; and tight end David Martin had one.

Count the six drops as catches and Favre would have completed 37 of 55 passes, 67.3%.

MONDAY, Sept. 18, 2006, 1:31 p.m.

Possible lineup changes
At his Monday press conference, coach Mike McCarthy didn't rule out the possibility of making two starting lineup changes. He said his coaching staff would discuss inserting Ben Taylor at strong-side linebacker ahead of Brady Poppinga and keeping Daryn Colledge in the starting lineup rather than Tony Moll if Jason Spitz returns this week at guard.

Poppinga had another rough day in the passing game in Sunday's loss to New Orleans. He lined up wrong opposite wide receiver Joe Horn in a zone coverage on what turned out to be a 57-yard pass He also dropped what should have been a sure interception. Both of those plays occurred prior to two of the Saints' field goals. On the Saints' go-ahead touchdown drive late in the second quarter, Poppinga also was beaten by fullback Corey McIntyre on a 10-yard pass on fourth-and-one, and couldn't recover in time to help on a seven-yard pass to running back Aaron Stecker, four plays earlier, on a third-and-one play.

Poppinga wasn't the only culprit on Horn's big play. Safety Marquand Manuel was the safety over the top and was too wide of the play. But both the Chicago Bears last week and the Saints Sunday clearly game-planned to take advantage of Poppinga's liabilities in pass coverage.

Nevertheless, defensive coordinator Bob Sanders didn't sound as though he ready to make a change, although he didn't rule it out, either.

Offensive coordinator Jeff Jagodzinski said both Colledge and Moll played just "okay." Colledge also is the backup at left tackle, but he said even last week when he knew he probably was going to start at guard, he was able to take enough snaps at tackle to be ready in an emergency.

GBRulz
09-19-2006, 03:33 PM
As much as I hated reading that little blurb about Walker in the beginning of this article, I was actually thinking that yesterday. I think he would have been the difference in that game.

While I really like Jennings, I don't think he's #2 material yet. However, when you look at what WE have as a WR core, yes....he's the best man for the job.

RashanGary
09-19-2006, 03:34 PM
Nice work Cliff.

MJZiggy
09-19-2006, 03:55 PM
Hey Cliff,

Why is it that at Tuesday, 12:08 Bush gained more than 100 yards and dictated the Packers defensive alignment on every single play. The Packers had nobody to match him; and on Monday at 2:21 The Packers designed their game plan to stop Reggie Bush and they did a good job? Which is it, Cliff?

GoPack06
09-19-2006, 04:01 PM
i think Bush had an OK game. But i do think we someone to match him - AJ Hawk.

MJZiggy
09-19-2006, 04:03 PM
And Nick Collins. Bush was wearing Collins the whole game (sorry, that sounds REALLY bad).

Packnut
09-19-2006, 04:53 PM
Walker won the game for them. He'll get more big plays as he adjusts to the Denver scheme and gains confidence in his knee. Letting him go is just another in a long line of mistakes, but no one wants to hear that.

Patler
09-19-2006, 06:08 PM
....again this term "letting him go"??? Makes even less sense with Walker who was traded. Value was give for value received. Remains to be seen if the values were equal or not.

red
09-19-2006, 06:12 PM
Hey Cliff,

Why is it that at Tuesday, 12:08 Bush gained more than 100 yards and dictated the Packers defensive alignment on every single play. The Packers had nobody to match him; and on Monday at 2:21 The Packers designed their game plan to stop Reggie Bush and they did a good job? Which is it, Cliff?

i like how cliff tries to make it seem like bush had a big day by including the punt and kickoff returns.

he had 5 yards rushing on 6 carries and 68 yards on 8 catches. our d did damn good against him

run pMc
09-20-2006, 09:13 AM
Interesteing insights...my 2 cents...
(1) The D did a good job of containing Bush
(2) GB game-planned around Bush, with Collins shadowing him effectively.
(3) Cliffy is still playing favorites with Walker. Let it go Cliff. He's a good player and would have helped GB out immmensely, but he didn't want to be here. It's sad to let a good playmaker go when there aren't many of them, but he would have been a cancer and rookie-coach-killer.
(4) For a minute there it sounded like Cliffy was on the Collins and Carroll bandwagons.
(5) The drops killed GB as much or more than the secondary. I'd guess that reducing the drops in half would have won the game.

Woulda shoulda coulda
On to DET...Go Pack!

ahaha
09-20-2006, 09:31 AM
The Saints running backs had 13 catches for 123 yards. Bush had 8 for 68, McAllister had 1 for 24, Aaron Stecker had 3 for 21, and Corey McIntyre caught 1 for 10. Way too many first downs on dump off passes to the running backs.

RashanGary
09-20-2006, 09:44 AM
Anybody could get 100 yards returning John Ryans lasers.

MJZiggy
09-20-2006, 10:13 AM
I watched the punting with a little extra care this week and for every punt, there was a gunner downfield. He did not outkick his gunner once and I'm getting tired of that being used as an excuse. The gunner just got blocked, and quite frankly, I believe I recall one or two kicks where the receiver was backing up and running laterally looking for a lane. This is a coverage problem not a punting problem.

Harlan Huckleby
09-20-2006, 10:14 AM
(3) Cliffy is still playing favorites with Walker. Let it go Cliff. He's a good player and would have helped GB out immmensely, but he didn't want to be here.

Well, this is a bit of a rewrite of history. Walker wanted to be in Green Bay, he wanted to renogiate his contract and get a new long term deal. Exactly like Thompson did for Driver. Walker asked for this prior to 2005 season, then again after he was injured.

When Walker went public with his demands, he seemed unreasonable to most fans. Maybe he was asking too much, but then again maybe that was just an opening position in bargaining. What we know for sure is that Thompson refused to talk to Walker or his agent prior to the public confrontation. This appears to have been a big mistake, I doubt Thompson will ever refuse to privately talk to the agent of a premier player again.

Harlan Huckleby
09-20-2006, 10:20 AM
....again this term "letting him go"??? Makes even less sense with Walker who was traded. Value was give for value received. Remains to be seen if the values were equal or not.

I agree that the trade was the wisest option. The "letting go" part came a year earlier when Thompson refused to negotiate.

It's not a black and white issue. The reasons for refusing to renegotiate with a player under contract have been voiced here many times, and they have merit. Plus there is no guarantee that Walker would have agreed to a new longterm contract that Thompson thought was acceeptable. But the "standing firm" posture that Thompson and so many fans insisted on led to a raw deal for the Packers.

Fosco33
09-20-2006, 10:35 AM
Hurry-up offense
The Packers ran a hurry-up offense with a quick huddle on their third possession of the first half and their sixth possession of the second half. In the first half, they drove 75 yards in eight plays to score on a 36-yard Dave Rayner field goal. In the second half, they marched 80 yards in nine plays and scored on a 4-yard Brett Favre to Robert Ferguson pass. The Packers also used it on their last series.

It's a wonder we don't use this strategy more often given the positive results (in non two-min situations). The Eagles and Colts use it all the time and can wear down defenses quickly as well as add further confusion.

The obvious downsides being an inexperienced offensive group making mistakes and losing time of possession. At this point, I'd like more scoring and a 'W'.

pbmax
09-20-2006, 11:59 AM
Hey Cliff,

Why is it that at Tuesday, 12:08 Bush gained more than 100 yards and dictated the Packers defensive alignment on every single play. The Packers had nobody to match him; and on Monday at 2:21 The Packers designed their game plan to stop Reggie Bush and they did a good job? Which is it, Cliff?
Accusing Cliff of being two-faced? C'mon, not Cliff, the curmudgeon

Actually, I took those two posts to mean something quite believable and consistent with each other. Bush forced the Packers to alter their D to account for him and opened matchups for other players. This is the definition of dictating to a defense.

And second, the Packers did well in their matchups with Bush in this scheme, although they didn't bottle him up like Barry Sanders in a playoff game.

But this isn't just positive news here. By altering the D you force Poppinga to make a choice between covering Horn or Bush. And neither was a good choice.

pbmax
09-20-2006, 12:16 PM
What we know for sure is that Thompson refused to talk to Walker or his agent prior to the public confrontation.
Maybe you know this Harlan, but I doubt Thompson refused to talk to them. I find it easier to believe that he wouldn't negotiate. And that is two different things. No lines of communication is inviting a fight. Refusing to open negotiations is the team's prerogative.

And I am still waiting for Walker to offer to cough up the money he didn't earn while he stunk for two and one-half seasons. Amazing how the outperforming players never seem to remember the underperforming years.

Branch went about this quite professionally with the Patriots and got nowhere. Uninjured, he was valued as a first-round pick. Walker commanded less and got a lesser contract.

He overplayed his hand. And he still might not get paid for the full contact.

Branch was the leading receiver for the Patriots for three full years. Walker did it for one. How much value does Walker have in the league compared to Branch?

And how much is he over-valued by the Packer faithful because we had squat behind him?

Thompson may be a failure ultimately. It won't rest on the Walker decision. It will be whether he can replace him.

Partial
09-20-2006, 12:20 PM
Anybody could get 100 yards returning John Ryans lasers.

His hang time wasn't good but I don't think he really bombed any, either. If he has that 3.8-4.0 hangtime on a 65 yarder they're in trouble. On a 40 yarder thats not so bad. A more accurate statement would bE:

Anyone could get 100 yards returning due to the Packers inability to convert third downs and punting 10 times a game.

Partial
09-20-2006, 12:21 PM
(3) Cliffy is still playing favorites with Walker. Let it go Cliff. He's a good player and would have helped GB out immmensely, but he didn't want to be here.

Well, this is a bit of a rewrite of history. Walker wanted to be in Green Bay, he wanted to renogiate his contract and get a new long term deal. Exactly like Thompson did for Driver. Walker asked for this prior to 2005 season, then again after he was injured.

When Walker went public with his demands, he seemed unreasonable to most fans. Maybe he was asking too much, but then again maybe that was just an opening position in bargaining. What we know for sure is that Thompson refused to talk to Walker or his agent prior to the public confrontation. This appears to have been a big mistake, I doubt Thompson will ever refuse to privately talk to the agent of a premier player again.

We are generally on the same page. It's quite funny how his "we only resign players with one year on their deals left" went out the window for DD this past off-season.

Partial
09-20-2006, 12:22 PM
Hurry-up offense
The Packers ran a hurry-up offense with a quick huddle on their third possession of the first half and their sixth possession of the second half. In the first half, they drove 75 yards in eight plays to score on a 36-yard Dave Rayner field goal. In the second half, they marched 80 yards in nine plays and scored on a 4-yard Brett Favre to Robert Ferguson pass. The Packers also used it on their last series.

It's a wonder we don't use this strategy more often given the positive results (in non two-min situations). The Eagles and Colts use it all the time and can wear down defenses quickly as well as add further confusion.

The obvious downsides being an inexperienced offensive group making mistakes and losing time of possession. At this point, I'd like more scoring and a 'W'.

I've asked myself the same question before. My guess is they aren't confident in their players enough to execute it. This is an absolutely deadly way to run an offense if your guys are well-conditioned and you have a running back who can catch the ball.

Harlan Huckleby
09-20-2006, 12:24 PM
Maybe you know this Harlan, but I doubt Thompson refused to talk to them. I find it easier to believe that he wouldn't negotiate. And that is two different things. No lines of communication is inviting a fight. Refusing to open negotiations is the team's prerogative.

Thompson refused to discuss Walker's contract, according to Walker's side. But I accept your point, go ahead and substitute "negotiate" for "talk". It was unwise to refuse to negotiate with Walker's agent, wise to negotiate with Driver's agent. "Negotiate" doesn't mean he agrees to anything.

Partial
09-20-2006, 12:25 PM
What we know for sure is that Thompson refused to talk to Walker or his agent prior to the public confrontation.
Maybe you know this Harlan, but I doubt Thompson refused to talk to them. I find it easier to believe that he wouldn't negotiate. And that is two different things. No lines of communication is inviting a fight. Refusing to open negotiations is the team's prerogative.

And I am still waiting for Walker to offer to cough up the money he didn't earn while he stunk for two and one-half seasons. Amazing how the outperforming players never seem to remember the underperforming years.

Branch went about this quite professionally with the Patriots and got nowhere. Uninjured, he was valued as a first-round pick. Walker commanded less and got a lesser contract.

He overplayed his hand. And he still might not get paid for the full contact.

Branch was the leading receiver for the Patriots for three full years. Walker did it for one. How much value does Walker have in the league compared to Branch?

And how much is he over-valued by the Packer faithful because we had squat behind him?

Thompson may be a failure ultimately. It won't rest on the Walker decision. It will be whether he can replace him.

Professionally? He demanded a trade and held out. He did exactly what Walker did except Walker showed up to camp and Branch did not. The Pats even agreed to trade Branch if they did not get proper value, and since they did not, he said he would appeal in court what "fair value" was using examples of players trading for second round picks. Walker handled it more professionally than Branch did, except Branch was smart enough to keep his mouth shut and not bad mouth the team after the fact.

Patler
09-20-2006, 02:26 PM
I see Walker's, Driver's and Branch's contract situations as being very different from each other.

Driver had proven himself for 5 years, was underpaid, had no lingering physical questions and was in the next to last year of his contract.

Branch was in the last year of his contract, had proven himself for 4 years, was hugely underpaid for his entire career having been the last pick of the second round and paid like it ($1 million bonus, league minimum salaries each year for four years). He proved himself in big games and won a Super Bowl MVP.

Walker - a first round pick, and paid like it. Received around $7 million for 1 bad year as a receiver, one year showing promise, a very good year, but still had several years left on his contract when he first wanted to renegotiate. Then, he was injured so there was an overriding injury question this year.

It's easy to see why Driver was extended.

It's easy to see why Branch took a hard line.

It's less easy to side with Walker in either 2005 or 2006. He had made good money for his performance and really just needed to show that 2004 was not a fluke. Plus, GB had others whose contracts expired before Walker that they had to take care of, too. Then, getting hurt he needed to demonstrate physical recovery, but he never gave the Packers a chance in that regard, vowing never to play for them again well before they could see where he was at in his recovery. He wasn't even in GB for his therapy, wanting to do it on his own instead.

pbmax
09-20-2006, 03:42 PM
Maybe you know this Harlan, but I doubt Thompson refused to talk to them. I find it easier to believe that he wouldn't negotiate. And that is two different things. No lines of communication is inviting a fight. Refusing to open negotiations is the team's prerogative.

Thompson refused to discuss Walker's contract, according to Walker's side. But I accept your point, go ahead and substitute "negotiate" for "talk". It was unwise to refuse to negotiate with Walker's agent, wise to negotiate with Driver's agent. "Negotiate" doesn't mean he agrees to anything.
I think at some level you need to treat players the same. And if you are going to redo non-QBs before the last year of a deal, then your case to Walker is you haven't earned it yet.

I am not upset they choose to extend Driver. But if you are going to choose to do non-QBs before the last year, I would have preferred Walker get the cash.

What we don't know is what money he would have accepted from the Pack. The deal he got in Denver gives the Broncos all the cards. He wouldn't have come that cheap or easy back to the Pack, even before the injury.

pbmax
09-20-2006, 04:18 PM
Professionally? He demanded a trade and held out. He did exactly what Walker did except Walker showed up to camp and Branch did not. The Pats even agreed to trade Branch if they did not get proper value, and since they did not, he said he would appeal in court what "fair value" was using examples of players trading for second round picks. Walker handled it more professionally than Branch did, except Branch was smart enough to keep his mouth shut and not bad mouth the team after the fact.
I haven't followed the Branch case so close that I have the timeline memorized, but I think he mainly kept his mouth shut and gave few interviews. Something along the lines of Walker the summer prior to the injury.

The only people talking were his agent (who was being roasted and not just in Boston) and the agent's hand picked media spokeperson Ron Borges. Borges writes for a local paper and has a reputation for sticking pins in his Patriots voodoo doll for reasons unknown to me.

He did not demand a trade that I know of and sought permission to talk to other teams after the Patriots pulled their multi-year offer. He also did not vow to never again play for the Patriots. He is held in high esteem by his teammates even after the contract holdout.

As Patler states he also was in the last year of a contract he had clearly outperformed in each of the years since year 1.

He didn't have his parents tell the Boston media he was distraught and angry. He didn't have his parents move his things from his house in mid-season.

I think the two cases were handled entirely differently. Walker was one year early and then went south after his injury. I can understand his disappointment, but he would have gotten more from the Packers, who were thinner than the Broncos, if he had played here this season.