Have Brett Favre's skills really diminished that much?

[woodbuck27]

Have Brett Favre's skills really diminished that much?

By Chris Landry, Yahoo! Sports
September 19, 2006

http://i.packers.com/pg/favre_brett_2006/photo9.jpg


Physically, Favre is not the same player that he was in his prime. That much is obvious to even the most casual observer. However, his skill level is still better than many starting NFL quarterbacks.

In his prime, Favre was always a wild-child-type player who routinely threw the ball into coverage. Back then, he had two huge factors going for him. One, former head coach Mike Holmgren was both a calming influence and stern hand. Holmgren was great at accentuating the positives in Favre's skills as well as diminishing his flaws. With better personnel weapons surrounding Favre, Holmgren was also outstanding at clearing coverage in the deep middle and allowing Favre to make the throws against man coverage successfully.

Now, the Packers struggle in both pass protection and in the running game, which leads to them falling behind early, which forces them to hope Favre pulls something out of his hat. In this scenario, even the hottest quarterbacks will fail.

When evaluating a player, you must ask yourself why he is struggling or having success. Asking the "whys" accurately and astutely will ultimately bring you to the answer.

A number of other quarterbacks are playing poorly, but there are other issues that are contributing to that. Changing the quarterback is not always the answer, unless he's beaten down physically or mentally and not processing information accurately.

Making a change at a position without addressing the other problems is just cosmetic. If you had transmission problems on your automobile, would changing the tires help? Or would it simply make one situation better without addressing the more significant issue?

PACKERS @ LIONS - GO PACK GO !!

[KYPack]

Ron Jaworski did an in-depth analysis of Brett's skills over the last 4-5 years. They have markedly diminished. He is making technique errors and is no longer fundamentally sound. He used to overcome these deficiencies with his monster physical talent. Now he has deteriorated to the point that he can't overcome this stuff.

I hope Brett goes back to the basics and improves. I want him to play next year, for my own selfish reasons.

[mission]

i obviously started a thread about his mechanics a couple days ago but it's also worth noting that on certain passes, he's made remarkable improvement.

those two passes to driver....

the first one favre rolled left and got his feet around in position to make a solid throw like any high schooler is taught to do (but he never used to do). he did it and made a perfect pass between defenders and right into driver's hands. then the deep pass to driver on the other side of the field, he came directly over the top (this being key) with good follow through and squared away feet and threw one of the best passes ive seen him throw in quite some time.

if he keeps putting effort into those little things and continues to see positive results/changes then i can see that lighting a little fire under his ass. everyone likes to see the fruits of their labor and i think he flashed signs of it on sunday.

id just like to see it continually improve ... hopefully it does.

[chewy-bacca]

yes he is older, but I would say Favre @ 85-90% is better than most other QBs. I agree with the story, he needs more exp. in all areas. He also need the vets to hold on to the ball. The game plan was better for him this past week, roll outs and bootlegs. The oline is giving him vary little time. its hard to be sound with mech. when your getting pushed around in the pocket, and chased on bootlegs. He did hold the ball to long on the pick, but in a game where he did good things, something bad is gonna happen, they always do. In the past other players helped make it up. now they crumble.

If Favre had half the team Elway had in the end of his time, we would be a top team. Nothing seems to be working in his favor though, so he has to take the heat. He is still damn good, its just the rest of the team is pretty darn bad. :sad:

[GBRulz]

Personally, I ignore the stuff about "has brett's skills dimished" blah blah blah because how can you even compare him today vs. when he actually had talent around him? I won't deny that his decision making over the past year plus makes me beat my head against the wall at times, but other than Driver, this guy has nobody. his WR's and TE's can't even catch a cold at times, he has no running game, the O-Line has him running for his life, etc. Of course that's gonna mess with the guys head....he doesn't have much confidence and I can't say that I blame him.

I am still a total supporter of Favre and that he definitely gives us the best chance to win. I think if he had some surrounding talent, we wouldn't be reading all this talk about his skills deteriorating and we'd be talking about when he's going to get his 4th MVP.

Call me an apologist if you will, but I am in no way ready to let go of #4....

[MJZiggy]

I was thinking about this last night and for some reason, I still have a good feeling about this team that I can't seem to shake no matter how many times you guys try to tell me that they suck. It seems to go beyond just me defending the team. I will defend them, but I haven't seen guys get after a qb like they did last week in a long time. Kampman was determined and never gave up and did a hell of a job as did a few of the other guys. I just feel like they need to come together a little more and they will be a force. Jennings just has to catch one or two more (and Koren comes in) to take the heat off DD and they just need to make a few fewer mistakes on the line and Ahman will start breaking runs. It's coming, I can feel it.

[mission]

I was thinking about this last night and for some reason, I still have a good feeling about this team that I can't seem to shake no matter how many times you guys try to tell me that they suck. It seems to go beyond just me defending the team. I will defend them, but I haven't seen guys get after a qb like they did last week in a long time. Kampman was determined and never gave up and did a hell of a job as did a few of the other guys. I just feel like they need to come together a little more and they will be a force. Jennings just has to catch one or two more (and Koren comes in) to take the heat off DD and they just need to make a few fewer mistakes on the line and Ahman will start breaking runs. It's coming, I can feel it.

It's funny you say that. I really feel the same way. I was disappointed obviously last week when ahman fumbled, they scored and everything looked bleek but I didnt have that shitty feeling in my stomach that I was used to from last year. I saw a ton of bright spots and maybe it's just wishful thinking by the both of us, but I can't help but feel some positive things are going to come out of this year.

I think all the national negative attention is from people who really have seen any of the games or are just going off ESPN and i think it's incredibly misleading. I'm not saying we're a playoff team, that's for sure, but it's fun to watch this new wave of players develop before our eyes.

[Harlan Huckleby]

The one area that is holding the team back is the offensive line. If the offensive line starts run blocking, the team can be competitive. I just don't know if Moll and Spitz are good enough.

[ahaha]

The one area that is holding the team back is the offensive line. If the offensive line starts run blocking, the team can be competitive. I just don't know if Moll and Spitz are good enough.

This is the position group with the most potential for improvement. With all the youth, and guys having to learn this new blocking scheme, it's not unreasonable to HOPE for some dramatic improvement as the season goes on.

[mmmdk]

The one area that is holding the team back is the offensive line. If the offensive line starts run blocking, the team can be competitive. I just don't know if Moll and Spitz are good enough.

This is the position group with the most potential for improvement. With all the youth, and guys having to learn this new blocking scheme, it's not unreasonable to HOPE for some dramatic improvement as the season goes on.

Let's hope so, remember, Whitticker & Klemm had NO room for improvement. Coston is an enigma too - will he ever play a down in the NFL?

[prsnfoto]

Ron Jaworski did an in-depth analysis of Brett's skills over the last 4-5 years. They have markedly diminished. He is making technique errors and is no longer fundamentally sound. He used to overcome these deficiencies with his monster physical talent. Now he has deteriorated to the point that he can't overcome this stuff.

I hope Brett goes back to the basics and improves. I want him to play next year, for my own selfish reasons.

Ky don't listen to morons like Jaws his observation is flawed from the start Brett has never ever ever had good mechanics his arm has got him through now I concede he has lost 5% of his velocity but he still has one if not the strongest arm in football the difference is his supporting cast sucks.

[Tony Oday]

I feel better about this team than last year :)

[Scott Campbell]

Jaworski is not your typical pretty boy with nothing but a loud mouth. Much of his analysis is done while breaking down film. I respect his work and his opinion.

[Rastak]

Jaworski is not your typical pretty boy with nothing but a loud mouth. Much of his analysis is done while breaking down film. I respect his work and his opinion.


I agree, he's one of the best out there actually.

[RIPackerFan]

MJZiggy - I agree with your sentiments. Maybe I am deluded, but I feel some good things are coming this way. After two games, its tough to really judge a lot. We know we are not one of the premier teams in the league, but are we really that bad? What if we had a crystal ball and saw that NO and Chicago were both 5-0 after week five - does that make our losses more palatable? What is we go on to win 2 out of the next three? What does that say?

As far as Favre goes, I watched the game and saw at least three passes that only a few quarterbacks could make - Favre being one of them. I am not ready to concede anything about his skills diminishing yet. I also only see better things coming in the future, as he feels more comfortable with his recievers and his line.

I can't wait for this weekend's game. I saw improvement in several areas this past weekend, and I expect to see even more, which should put us in a position to win.

[woodbuck27]

Personally, I ignore the stuff about "has brett's skills dimished" blah blah blah because how can you even compare him today vs. when he actually had talent around him? I won't deny that his decision making over the past year plus makes me beat my head against the wall at times, but other than Driver, this guy has nobody. his WR's and TE's can't even catch a cold at times, he has no running game, the O-Line has him running for his life, etc. Of course that's gonna mess with the guys head....he doesn't have much confidence and I can't say that I blame him.

I am still a total supporter of Favre and that he definitely gives us the best chance to win. I think if he had some surrounding talent, we wouldn't be reading all this talk about his skills deteriorating and we'd be talking about when he's going to get his 4th MVP.

Call me an apologist if you will, but I am in no way ready to let go of #4....

I just want to build off this post by GBRulz. Any Packer fan that has Brett Favre on her FF Team, speaks "of integrity" to me.

I see it this way.

In the last game, with all that isn't on OUR "O" to support Favre, except Donald Driver; and I still have some belief in Ahman Green. Especially given the very difficult, and intensive rehab he showed us to get back from his serious injury.

AFTER THE GAME

Favre, who completed 31 of 55 passes for 340 yards with three touchdowns and one interception Vs. the N.O. Saints at HOME on Sun. Sept.17, 2006, had thrown only one TD pass in the Packers' previous six games.

One week after being shut out for the first time in his career, Favre had his first multi-touchdown game since a loss to Minnesota on Nov. 21, 2005.

Favre said he still enjoys playing football, but sounded like he is settling in for a long season.

"That's a game we should have won, and we didn't do it," Favre said. "So we've got to find a way. First of all, we may not be in that situation too often this year where we're up 13-0 at home. If we are, we've got to find a way to close that out."


1) Considering... since GM Ted Thompson arrived.

We are 4 w -14 L or a 0.222 LOSING Percentage.

2) Add " the fact ", that Brett Favre plays football for one reason. To WIN FOOTBALL GAMES.Not for 'the money". Not for his name one more time in the NFL RECORD BOOK.

3) Now... take a look or factor this in:

http://images.nfl.com/photos/img9666849.jpg

Brett Favre's stats line looked good, but it wasn't enough to lead the Packers to victory.

4) That.... despite 340 Yards and three (3) TD's passing.Which backs up 2.) above as it's the fact of another loss that drains Favre and doesn't that drain alot of you Packer fans?

Some Packer fans, were jumping for joy in anticipation of a Packer loss.Well at least the result on Sunday was satisfactory for YOU dedicated packer fans while many of the rest of us are still recovering.

I listened to Brett Favre on audio today on NFL Field pass and he was asked about any potential trade possibility. He said that he still had the juice and preferred to play out his career in a Green Bay Packer Lineup.

NOW ! Adding it all up... is anyone seriously going to claim that Brett Favre is washed up as an NFL QB?

He may be washed up as a QB for "the GREEN BAY PACKERS".

See it's simply this. It's just about all been taken away from him in Green Bay. Is he punishing himself by remaining in Green Bay?

I believe certainly that's the case.

Has GM Ted Thompson done enough to avoid what you see in the photo of Favre post game [ see (3) above]?

STUDY THE PHOTO for insight - allow it to speak to you.

Now ask yourself that question (again) if you didn't get the TRUTHFUL Response the first time.

There's NOT alot wrong with Brett Favre. Brett Favre has worked very closely with Mike McCarthy to get on the same page in M3's WCO. There's a TON wrong with " the Green Bay Packers " as a result of a Ted Thonpson Agenda.

An agenda that is obviously not anything associated with winning regularly or certainly not going to put that Ole Brett Favre smile... back on Brett Favre's face again in Green Bay this season, on any regular basis.

The Packers won't even consider trading Brett Favre now. Tell me a team like the Tampa Bay Buc's wouldn't LOVE to have Brett Favre. They have a decent team that needs a QB.

The Packers are a team that has that QB, yet needs almost everything else on it's offense. Brett Favre is being waisted in the final chapter of his career.

The NFL Trading deadline is October 17. Can't you see it now?

Just around the NFL trading deadline at a Ted Thompson News Conference after he has just traded Brett Favre to the Tampa Bay Bucaneers.The Packer record 1-4 or 0-5, pick one.

Question:

Why did you trade Brett Favre Ted?

Ted Thompson:

Well ahhh humm, (grasping his throat) we just thought,ahhh, it would be fairer to Brett, humm, to allow him a chance to win sooner as Tampa Bay is a pretty darn decent football team, that needed an experienced quarterback. We sat down and talked to Brett about it, and Brett well... he ahhh hummm said... why not..anything for the Green Bay Packers.

The three of us... Mike McCarthy,Brett and I and well...we knew that Brett was suffering, and ahhh errr choke (clears throat) we just thought all round this was well, the best fix, the right thing... to do. We'll certainly uummm... miss Brett, in Green Bay ahhhh, (pause) he was here a long time and did alot for the Packers. This is aahhhh, a bit uummm of a shock to all of us.

Question:

Ted what did the Packers get in exchange for Brett?

Ted Thompson:

Well ahhh, actually uummm... that will be decided sometime later. It'll most likely ahhhh, be some sort of draft pick. You'll find (clears throat) out just as soon as I do.


Of course Ted.

[esoxx]

The one area that is holding the team back is the offensive line.

Also pass defense. Need to clean that up too.

[woodbuck27]

Adam Schefter is on NFL Total Access right now and he will be discussing the rumor that Brett Favre will or won't be traded sometime this season.

[GBRulz]

Woody, good job on the TT "interview" !!!! :wink:

[Joemailman]

The one area that is holding the team back is the offensive line. If the offensive line starts run blocking, the team can be competitive. I just don't know if Moll and Spitz are good enough.


I think Spitz will be very good. Moll is a stopgap. You are right that if the OL comes together, this team will be competitive.

[MadtownPacker]

Just saw the game again on NFL Network replay and I confirmed he hasn't lost anything. :cool:

[b bulldog]

He has looked good when he can throw from the pocket but when he must avoid the rush, his age shows.

[woodbuck27]

Woody, good job on the TT "interview" !!!! :wink:

GBRulz they brought it up several times today on NFL.COM Total Access.

The ONLY way that Ted Thompson can get rid of Favre, if in fact there is an issue bet,Ted Thompson and Brett, is if Brett asks for a trade,

He said clearly that he was all in with "the Packers" and the people and fans of the Green bay Packers. He doesn't want to start over with another franchise as that would be too difficult for him at this stage in his career..

In the interview portion with Brett he sounded down. I know how I am feeling with this barage of loss's and how must OUR Man feel? I am thinking...terrible.

Favre wants to win, just one game to get started.

He said... most everyone in the Packer dressing room are in good spirits laughing and joking and that that surprises him. He seemed to indicate that normal to him was a more solemn atmosphere and more serious about getting that first win. He emphasized that it has to start there to have a decent season..one win.

I have never heard him sound that down.Two games into the season and we know he can't be done, but what a screwing Ted Thompson has laid on Favre and Green.

He can't no longer even fake it well. It appears to me that the ZBS isn't working as without establishing " the RUN ", the next option is the pass and Favre said it today.

You can't expect to win often, throwing 40 pass's in a game.

Where is the happy medium "in reality" for us, is tough to guess. 5 pass's in the first half of game one and 55 pass's in game two.Two extremes. I'm looking for about (a ballpark estimate) of 30 Rush's and 35 Pass's.

Hypothetically GBRulz.

If Ted Thompson wanted to trade Favre, and the team most mentioned for such a trade of late has been "the BUCS" (and the word is... that two-three teams approached The Packers interested in him in the Off Season ) what would Ted Thompson secure for Favre?

No more than a third or fourth round draft pick.

Favre for a third Rd pick. Hard for me to take.

10% of Packer fans would enter some depression for a spell. That would be the worst day in OUR lives as sports fans. The uproar to get Ted Thompson's ass out of Green Bay pronto, would amaze us. Ted Thompson would never live it down ( he couldn't step out of his car to pump gas ).

The repurcussions against any career he aspires to in Green Bay would be on the clock.

Ted Thompson would have to be the biggest fool as a GM in the history of American Proffesional Sports.

Ted Thompson the man that traded Brett Favre the ICON of the NFL overall since he started with us.

Ted Thompson couldn't be that much of a fool. . .could. . . HE?

[MJZiggy]

In another article in a thread on this forum

If you were traded to another team, would you go?

Brett Favre: No. (followed by a BF-length explanation)

Nuff said.

[Harlan Huckleby]

If you were traded to another team, would you go?

Brett Favre: No. (followed by a BF-length explanation)

Nuff said.

Can you expect him to say, "Hell yes! What have you heard? Please, tell me. I'd give my left nut to get out of this train wreck!"

[The Leaper]

I respect Jaws too...but he is nuts for claiming that Favre's skills have greatly diminished. He still has a cannon arm, and usually throws with pretty good precision. That is 75% of your ability to QB right there. The only area where he has notably declined is in his mobility. Considering he still is just as mobile as Peyton Manning, who Jaws probably dreams about right now, I think it is fair to say that Favre is pretty damn good.

Is he an MVP caliber player anymore? Probably not...but few players are when they are in their mid 30s. It would be nice to see Favre playing with talent comparable to what he had 10 years ago...just to see how far he has "slipped".

His problem is not his skills...his problem is decision making and lack of playmakers around him. When Favre makes good decisions, he is still one of the best QBs out there.

[MJZiggy]

This is Brett we're talking about, Mr. Say What's on My Mind. If he wanted to get traded, he'd have said something to the effect of "oh, I don't know, I can't predict what the team will want to do, I think I can still play, would that be for another team? I don't know."

Instead, he said no. I don't want that kind of pressure...everybody expecting it to happen just because I'm there...I don't want to start over...new system, new city, yada, yada, yada. You'll have to watch the PC, but this is not a man that is good at covering up what he's really thinking.