PI- "THE PARTY IS OVER AT LAMBEAU

[Bretsky]

The party is over at Lambeau Field
Posted: Sept. 20, 2006


Bud Lea
E-MAIL

Green Bay - Game days aren't special at Lambeau Field anymore.

Last Sunday morning the Green Bay Packers fan and his wife from Milwaukee put on their green Packers shirts, gassed up the SUV, and headed for Green Bay with some Stevens Point friends and . . . and nothing.

No butterflies appeared as they pulled into the Lambeau Field parking lot. No sense of excitement touched their every thought.

When coach Mike McCarthy looks out onto the field, he sees a troubled team looking back.

New Orleans was in town, and it didn't matter. The Saints aren't the Chicago Bears, a team everyone in Cheese Nation has a bloodlust for you can only find in sports. Besides, the Packers just about always beat the Saints.

This wasn't a rivalry. The Packers had faced the Saints 19 times and had won 14 of them, including last year's 52-3 blowout.

This was a "Milwaukee game," part of the Gold package offered to Milwaukee fans who used to watch the Packers play home games in County Stadium until Bob Harlan moved all games to Green Bay after the 1994 season.

Rick Sturtevant has been attending games in Green Bay for years. He likes coming to Lambeau Field. Doesn't mind the two-hour drive. He says the environment is perfect for watching Packer football.

But these Packers aren't the world champion Packers of 10 years ago. Or the Packers of three years ago when they still ruled the NFC North.

Counting playoffs, the Packers have won just three of their last 12 games at Lambeau Field. The mystique is gone. The Cleveland Browns, you remember, rolled into town last year and left as winners.

OK, sooner or later, every team hits hard times. Maybe it's the Packers' time.

"I don't think they needed to let it go this far," Sturtevant, a financial advisor with Morgan Stanley, said. "They have the money. They could have done things."

The general manager is an easy target. They're saying good teams shop at Sak's Fifth Avenue for talent while Ted Thompson shops at Wal-Mart.

One-and-a half hours before kickoff, John Protiva and his wife sat in their 30-yard line bleacher seats and enjoyed the beautiful summer day. The other Milwaukee game is Nov. 19 when weather conditions could be harsh.

Protiva, an insurance broker from Elm Grove, owns 53 Gold season tickets. He's got that many because he kept buying them during the lean years when the Packers weren't that popular playing games in County Stadium.

No matter what the team does this year, he won't give up the ghost. "I'll never give up one ticket," he said.

But Protiva gave up on the Packers Sunday. At the start of the fourth quarter, when the Saints were leading, 20-13, he and his wife headed for the parking lot and drove home to beat the traffic jam on the interstate.

So, have these "Milwaukee" fans written off this season?

"I think so," Sturtevant said. "I don't know who they can beat."

"They'll be lucky to win four games," Protiva said.

Everyone must realize the party is over at Green Bay. The Packers might have been the league's winningest organization of the 1990s, but the Saints reminded a sellout crowd of 70,602 at Lambeau Field how drastically the NFL order has changed.

The vagabond Saints finished 3-13 last season but are off to an unbeaten start under new coach Sean Payton. Baltimore, coming off a 6-10 season, is undefeated. The New York Jets (4-12) are 1-1, and so are the Buffalo Bills (5-11), Arizona Cardinals (5-11) and San Francisco 49ers (4-12). The Super Bowl favorite Carolina Panthers are winless.

Mike McCarthy's second game as head coach of the Packers was another sobering fact that this team doesn't know how to win. If this was the Packers' first chance to make a statement, it was striking how often they became tongue-tied.

"It's not the outcome I was looking for, but I don't look at things as damaging," McCarthy said. "I'm focused on Detroit. We need to win a football game."

It is McCarthy's job to keep everyone's chin up, to buoy everyone's sagging locker room spirit, and to convince this team that it can win.

You can condemn the coach and general manager and bicker over who deserves the bulk of the blame. But if the Packers want to end their nightmare, they will have to start assessing their own inadequacies.

It's clear the Packers have many worthy scapegoats not named Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy. And it's not only the young guys. Veterans alike can share the blame for dropped passes, fumbles, interceptions, playing soft on defense. And the Packers running game, the seed from which everything grows, isn't even close to what it must be to take the pressure off the quarterback.

The bottom line is they're not very good. It looks like they are building this team from scratch.

The fans see a football team that is young and competitive sometimes and miles away at other times. They see an aging quarterback trying to pull out miracles, but also a team without many game-breaking offensive weapons to support him.

Often, they don't know what they see. Mostly, what they want is someone to tell them it all will be worth it. They want hope and they want certainty, and they want it now.

This is how it is going to be, I'm afraid. There will be no comfort level with this bunch. No home-field advantage.

If you're considering to give up your season tickets, think again. The Packers ticket office has more than 72,000 on their waiting list.

[Noodle]

I wish everyone who wants to go home early would sell me their tickets. I'd be honored to have season tickets to Lambeau, and you wouldn't see me complaining.

Yeah, it's a tough year, but I haven't seen the players quit. So I'm not about to quit on them.

[MJZiggy]

No butterflies? What's wrong with these people? And actually, what did he tell us in this article that we didn't already know?

[Harlan Huckleby]

I thought Bud Lea died.

[pacfan]

I wish everyone who wants to go home early would sell me their tickets. I'd be honored to have season tickets to Lambeau, and you wouldn't see me complaining.

Yeah, it's a tough year, but I haven't seen the players quit. So I'm not about to quit on them.

No shit, talk about jaded fans. I think some of our fan base has been spoiled by the past success.

[Scott Campbell]

They're 0-2. This type of fan behavior isn't that unusual.

[bbbffl66]

I'm a Gold ticket holder, and yes there are plenty of times I've seen lots of people leave recently. It make me sick. But I've also been to plenty of Green games where the "spectators" have gotten out early. I hope Bud wasn't trying to trash the Gold fans. There seemed to be a lot of FIBs at the Green package Chicago games. Where did they get all the tickets?

[red]

god damn gold package people. leaving at the start of the 4th quarter in a game that was close at the time and wasn't decided until the end? WTF?

sounds like Milwaukee should be called little chicago, they're a bunch of fucking bandwagon jumpers just like chicago fans are

if you don't want to be at the games, the give your tickets away to packer fans that do want to be there assholes. i would have loved to be at that game

[Partial]

god damn gold package people. leaving at the start of the 4th quarter in a game that was close at the time and wasn't decided until the end? WTF?

sounds like Milwaukee should be called little chicago, they're a bunch of fucking bandwagon jumpers just like chicago fans are

if you don't want to be at the games, the give your tickets away to packer fans that do want to be there assholes. i would have loved to be at that game

I'm from Milwaukee and thats not funny!

[MJZiggy]

Me too and if I were still there, I'd gladly use their tickets and stay 'til the bitter end and wait to see if I could see the players as they were leaving. That's what real fans do, afterall.

[retailguy]

I thought M3 was supposed to "restore the heralded Lambeau advantage", while he dusted off and painted his "dream house"?

My guess is he'd better dust off "plan B" pretty quickly. The troops are restless. :shock:

[retailguy]

god damn gold package people. leaving at the start of the 4th quarter in a game that was close at the time and wasn't decided until the end? WTF?

sounds like Milwaukee should be called little chicago, they're a bunch of fucking bandwagon jumpers just like chicago fans are

if you don't want to be at the games, the give your tickets away to packer fans that do want to be there assholes. i would have loved to be at that game


you got it bad for Chitown, Red. You ought to spend a few weekends there. Lots of stuff to do, and for the most part, pretty friendly people.

Most of the a-holes leave the state on the weekend. :wink:

[Packnut]

I thought M3 was supposed to "restore the heralded Lambeau advantage", while he dusted off and painted his "dream house"?

My guess is he'd better dust off "plan B" pretty quickly. The troops are restless. :shock:


There never was a plan b. Plan a was to gut the team lose for a few yrs and stockpile draft choices.

[retailguy]

I thought M3 was supposed to "restore the heralded Lambeau advantage", while he dusted off and painted his "dream house"?

My guess is he'd better dust off "plan B" pretty quickly. The troops are restless. :shock:


There never was a plan b. Plan a was to gut the team lose for a few yrs and stockpile draft choices.


Well, in the majority of the posters eyes around here, if that is true, M3 and TT are no better than Sherman, as his largest failing was not having "Plan B".

[Packnut]

I thought M3 was supposed to "restore the heralded Lambeau advantage", while he dusted off and painted his "dream house"?

My guess is he'd better dust off "plan B" pretty quickly. The troops are restless. :shock:


There never was a plan b. Plan a was to gut the team lose for a few yrs and stockpile draft choices.


Well, in the majority of the posters eyes around here, if that is true, M3 and TT are no better than Sherman, as his largest failing was not having "Plan B".


The sad thing is that any one of us could carry out plan a.

[Fritz]

Oh, boo hoo hoo for the poor fans. Everybody likes to talk about how "special" Packer fans are, how they love their team, but then when times get tough some of them start whining about "deserving" better?

And as for plan A's or B's does anybody really think TT is deliberately undermining this year's team for the sake of a draft pick?

That's right up there (in terms of ridiculousness) with Bush bombed the twin towers himself, and other whacked conspiracy theories.

[bbbffl66]

That's right up there (in terms of ridiculousness) with Bush bombed the twin towers himself, and other whacked conspiracy theories.[/quote]

No no no, it was the Bush twins who were bombed!!! :mrgreen:

[GBRulz]

Counting playoffs, the Packers have won just three of their last 12 games at Lambeau Field

That's just flat out depressing.

[RashanGary]

Oh, boo hoo hoo for the poor fans. Everybody likes to talk about how "special" Packer fans are, how they love their team, but then when times get tough some of them start whining about "deserving" better?

And as for plan A's or B's does anybody really think TT is deliberately undermining this year's team for the sake of a draft pick?

That's right up there (in terms of ridiculousness) with Bush bombed the twin towers himself, and other whacked conspiracy theories.

I agree. What a bunch of whiners. I understand fans want to win, but they have to understand the league a little. Teams do not win every year. Sherman ran this organization into the ground and continued to ride his two playmakers *Favre and Green* into the playoffs every year. Eventually Favre's skills declined adn Green had a season ending injury. It's over, we don't have two stallions to ride. We need some new ones. Hawk looks like he's on his way and if we're lucky we'll get one more SOON. It's patients. I'm hoping this years draft will land another blue chip defender. I think McCarthy can do a fine job if given a couple playmakers to depend on like Sherman had.

Sherman was a good coach. He was organized and had everyone prepared. HE drove the franchise into the ground by being a bad GM. It's time to rebuild. I dont' think this season is a direct reflection of McCarthy's skills just like last year wasn't a direct reflection of Shermans. Lets give McCarthy a couple elite players and see how he does. He doesn't have them now and if he does, they're too young and not playing their best football. Also, there are more weak links now.

The Packers are rebuilding, there is no nice way to put it. They have ZERO proven playmakers who arn't over the hill and they have a bunch of weak links. It's time to start from scratch and hope a couple elite players emerge.

[RashanGary]

Weak links

Poppinga
Manuel
Moll
Ryan

Playmakers

ZERO


Many of these guys might be just fine, but for now they are below average players. YOu cannot win with this many marginal players. Poppinga is downright horrible. As far as this year is concerned, there is no hope of winning with these guys starting. Next year, they all might be alot better. Combine the weak links with the fact that we have ZERO playmakers and you have a really bad team.

Sure Hawk could develop into one. Urlacher took a few weeks before he started lighting anything up. What rookie is as good in his first game as he is in his 8th? None probably. Alot of our problems can be fixed with experience so that is a good thing but as far as this year is concerned it means nothing. We are a bad team right now. Next year could be different assuming a bunch of these promising rookies step up and Hawk becomes an elite playmaker. That is alot of hoping. The reality is that we are 2 or 3 years away. Get used to it. That's called the NFL cycle.

[Fritz]

Thanks, Greg. Listen, if at the end of 2007 it's not clear that this team is moving up - fast - then I'll be all over TT. But I want to see how his first couple of draft classes begin to pan out before I'm willing to jump the guy.

[esoxx]

I would put Donald Driver into the playmaker category.

[RashanGary]

Thanks, Greg. Listen, if at the end of 2007 it's not clear that this team is moving up - fast - then I'll be all over TT. But I want to see how his first couple of draft classes begin to pan out before I'm willing to jump the guy.

Yeah..I'm gonna give him till the end of next year. If we dont' have a defense running around making PLAYS! by then, I'm gonna jump off too. When I say making plays, I mean making plays but not giving up 14 explosive ones in 2 games either. I've been an avid TT supporter. I believe in his methods but 3 years you have to start seeing improvement. If not, it's time to start thinking about cutting the cord.

He better have hit on 2 of his 5 OG selections over the last 2 drafts too. We know Coston and Whittaker are failures so 2 of these ones better pan out or he has no more excuses.

As far as freaking out now, it is way to early. It's just plain silly IMHO.

[red]

god damn gold package people. leaving at the start of the 4th quarter in a game that was close at the time and wasn't decided until the end? WTF?

sounds like Milwaukee should be called little chicago, they're a bunch of fucking bandwagon jumpers just like chicago fans are

if you don't want to be at the games, the give your tickets away to packer fans that do want to be there assholes. i would have loved to be at that game


you got it bad for Chitown, Red. You ought to spend a few weekends there. Lots of stuff to do, and for the most part, pretty friendly people.

Most of the a-holes leave the state on the weekend. :wink:

i use to live there

and you're right, it does seem to be the dicks that leave on the weekends. there are a lot of great people in chicagoland, but there are a ton of arrogant "i'm better then you" pricks there too

[Terry]

I have no time for people who hoard 53 season tickets. That's just plain wrong. And to top it off, it has to be a sunny weather fan. Somehow, that's the worst insult of all to top off that particular injury.

I wonder when people will get off this bad GM rant about Sherman. it's just simply not true.

[b bulldog]

I agree, if the team doesn't start showing improvement next season, Tt needs to go.

[RashanGary]

I have no time for people who hoard 53 season tickets. That's just plain wrong. And to top it off, it has to be a sunny weather fan. Somehow, that's the worst insult of all to top off that particular injury.

I wonder when people will get off this bad GM rant about Sherman. it's just simply not true.

Terry,

Sherman was a horrible GM. It's not even a rant IMO. It's a fact.

[red]

i'll agree, IF, this year ends the same way that last year did. meaning, if we show NO improvement from the beginning of the year to the end, and if next year goes the same way. then it will be time for TT to go.

it just shouldn't take that long to reload when you have as much free money as we had this year and we'll have next year

so to sum up, if they show no improvement or little improvement by the end of next season, then send him packing

[red]

I have no time for people who hoard 53 season tickets. That's just plain wrong. And to top it off, it has to be a sunny weather fan. Somehow, that's the worst insult of all to top off that particular injury.

I wonder when people will get off this bad GM rant about Sherman. it's just simply not true.

Terry,

Sherman was a horrible GM. It's not even a rant IMO. It's a fact.

don't let retailguy see you write that, its grounds for banning in his book

[BEARMAN]

You Gb fans are laughable, you have had it good for so long now that a couple poor seasons and the sky is falling? What a disgrace you are to your team. It has been easy to be a Packer fan, they used to win alot, it was "fun" being a packer fan. Funny how times change. True fans don't jump ship at the first sings of trouble. True fans keep the faith, hold the line , say "we'll get them next time". NOT, fire every one from the owner on down ? Pointing the finger is not the way to right your ship, pulling together, being a team, working on the fundimentals is how you turn a season around. You go back to BLOCKING, TACKLING, RUNNING, PASSING, fundimentals of football. There is no magic, no superman(farve), just 11 men pulling it together and getting the job done. Dang, look at me, a BEARS fan telling you Packer fans how it's done.... I know, cos I/we have been there. Not that I don't like seeing GB haveing troubles, I DO !, but dang, don't self destruct. Just my .02


GO BEARS !

[Tarlam!]

Thanks Bearman. We needed a pep-talk from an experienced LOSER and you stepped right up.

I am sure, having your loser experience to draw from will make our lives much easier. Boy, how glad am I that I'm not a teddy fan!

[BEARMAN]

YW tarlam, anything I can do to brighten your day. See, I told ya, I am here to spread cheer and good will to all. Now, when I kick you in the guts as you lye there wallowing in your loathing and dispare, crying cos your team sucks and is winless, just remember, it is "tough love" I am showing. It is cos I care that I abuse you so. :shock: Now, quit slobbering, streighten up and fly right !


GO BEARS !

[Tarlam!]

Boy, Bearman, you really gave it to me. I guess after that, I must be your bitch, huh?

[Fosco33]

god damn gold package people. leaving at the start of the 4th quarter in a game that was close at the time and wasn't decided until the end? WTF?

sounds like Milwaukee should be called little chicago, they're a bunch of fucking bandwagon jumpers just like chicago fans are

if you don't want to be at the games, the give your tickets away to packer fans that do want to be there assholes. i would have loved to be at that game

I'm from Milwaukee and thats not funny!

I have that shirt :lol:

[BEARMAN]

Tarlam, I do not swing that way, but hey, I don't judge people, so if that's what flips up your dress, go for it. Can I ask, are you the mommy or the daddy ? Just asking.... :roll:

GO BEARS !

[VegasPackFan]

So a writer finds ONE couple that left the game early to beat traffic and ONE other one that says that people have given up.

I just read a story on ESPN a few weeks ago where the writer was im total awe at the support this team receives, even during a pre-season game.

Bud Lea can take his totally skewed story and shove it up his old, stanky but!

This team has ALWAYS been supported by the many towns and cities in the state of Wisconsin.

Is is oh so vogue to slam a team when it is down.

Dont but into the hype, folks. I can tell you that when I go to a bar in Las Vegas to watch to the game, I never have a shortage of fellow fans to hang with.

I went to the Lions game last year, and with miserable weather and a miserable season, that place was rocking!

FU Bud Lea!!!!

[Terry]

I would put Donald Driver into the playmaker category.
I agree. Furthermore, when a team starts winning, a lot of ok players start making more plays and begin to look more like playmakers. Christl simply lacks imagination.



Sherman was a horrible GM. It's not even a rant IMO. It's a fact.
First of all, Greg, it's not a 'fact', it's an interpretive conclusion. Right away, you lose credibility from that alone. Secondly, I don't disagree that Sherman's performance as GM fell short, but I would argue that he could well have been a better GM than coach - i.e., his aptitude and personality are perfect for the role of GM. When you look at it in context, in many ways, whatever capability he did have as GM (something which you vastly underestimate) was quite impressive.

If Sherman had been GM only, hired himself a very good coach who in turn peopled his coaching staff with good people, been surrounded with people like Thompson instead of Hatley, and had a little more Wolf-style luck in free agency, things could have gone very, very differently. There's a hairline between failure and success. Was the sum total of Sherman as GM a failure? Yes, absolutely. Does that mean he's a "bad GM" or that he couldn't succeed quite well in the role? Absolutely not.

Like most fans and members of the public who base their glib easy opinions on the eddies and currents of what's available on the commercial ridden airwaves, you are wrong in your certainty. But I wouldn't want you to trouble yourself by living in the uncertainty that arises from recognizing that one does not actually 'know' very much about matters and a lot of information is simply not at hand. This is true about people like Slowik and Rosseley, just as it is true about worldwide political situations.


You Gb fans are laughable, you have had it good for so long now that a couple poor seasons and the sky is falling? What a disgrace you are to your team. It has been easy to be a Packer fan, they used to win alot, it was "fun" being a packer fan. Funny how times change. True fans don't jump ship at the first sings of trouble. True fans keep the faith, hold the line , say "we'll get them next time". NOT, fire every one from the owner on down ? Pointing the finger is not the way to right your ship, pulling together, being a team, working on the fundimentals is how you turn a season around. You go back to BLOCKING, TACKLING, RUNNING, PASSING, fundimentals of football. There is no magic, no superman(Favre), just 11 men pulling it together and getting the job done. Dang, look at me, a BEARS fan telling you Packer fans how it's done.... I know, cos I/we have been there. Not that I don't like seeing GB haveing troubles, I DO !, but dang, don't self destruct. Just my .02
Well, you're right in a way, Bearman. But I think you're missing the bigger picture. If the fans here were really fairweather fans, as you imply, they wouldn't be here at all. The very fact that people keep coming here to grumble is an indication of their deep devotion to the team. In fact, on the contrary side of your supposition, I would say that like countries, fans of teams who grumble when things are in trouble are among the most loyal of all.

However, there is no denying that the bottomless, repetitive and redundant crabbing without the occasional positive note to regain perspective, can be discouraging. I read a long post recently from someone who went to Lambeau Field last sunday from Florida and his positive observations from being there - in some detail I might add. It was the best of the positive posts that I've read in a very long time and it was like a breath of fresh air. I say this because it was more than a comment on loyalty or "let's wait and see" or "don't worry, things will turn around", but rather was built upon specific observations of some very positive things happening on the field right now that aren't necessarily so obvious on television.

Whatever, the point is that as long as the people here are still here bitching, your post is a little off the mark. It's when the activity on the board nosedives that your post might be better directed - but then, the people it's aimed at won't be around to read it.

Maybe you need to reword it next time. Maybe try discussing with people as well as at them. :idea:

[Bretsky]

Terry,

One quick comment on your points. I'd disagree about Hatley; I think Sherman melted down more after Hatley passed away and instead of putting somebody in that same capacity he took on even more burden...too much.

I'm not going to get into the GM fight in detail as I've went there too many times. IMO Sherman was a poor GM and the majority of the reasoning for me were the quality of his drafts. I do think the evidence would support that.

While not successful signing outside free agents, I can't blame him for the Joe Johnson signing because I thought it was a good thing at the time as well.

Bottom line is for me, when I think of Mike Sherman, I think of

1. A very dedicated man who was loyal and loved the GB Packers
2. A GM who let our talent run way too thin due to poor draft maneavers
3. A coach who is defined by one move; his decision not to put the entire season on the strength of his team and punt on the infamous 4th and 1. 4th and 26 is dead to me; should have never occured.


Cheers,
B

[Scott Campbell]

Bottom line is for me, when I think of Mike Sherman, I think of

1. A very dedicated man who was loyal and loved the GB Packers
2. A GM who let our talent run way too thin due to poor draft maneavers
3. A coach who is defined by one move; his decision not to put the entire season on the strength of his team and punt on the infamous 4th and 1. 4th and 26 is dead to me; should have never occured.




Spot on - exactamundo.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Bottom line is for me, when I think of Mike Sherman, I think of

1. A very dedicated man who was loyal and loved the GB Packers
2. A GM who let our talent run way too thin due to poor draft maneavers
3. A coach who is defined by one move; his decision not to put the entire season on the strength of his team and punt on the infamous 4th and 1. 4th and 26 is dead to me; should have never occured.


Spot on - exactamundo.


Indeed. I third this one.

[GBRulz]

I have no time for people who hoard 53 season tickets. That's just plain wrong. And to top it off, it has to be a sunny weather fan. Somehow, that's the worst insult of all to top off that particular injury.

I wonder when people will get off this bad GM rant about Sherman. it's just simply not true.


53 season tickets does seem like alot doesn't it? however, there are numerous people with hundreds of season tickets. In fact, I remember the local news stations interviewing people who had to pay the seat licensing fee of $1400 per seat....they were basically blasting the Packers because they couldn't afford to keep their hundreds of tickets. They got no sympathy from me.

[red]

ahhhhhhhh

poor asshole scalpers