Seven things I like about Mike McCarthy so far

[esoxx]

Certainly it's far too early in M3's head coaching career to draw any concrete conclusions. However, three games into the regular season, here are four things I like about M3:

1. His handling of Favre.

The early evidence says he's had a very positive impact on Brett's game. Calling more short to intermediate routes, allowing him room to audible, preaching check downs and control when the play's not there to be made. It seems every series, good or bad, M3 is there to talk with Favre immediately to counsel, cajole and discuss what just occurred. What a refereshing change from the past few years when Favre would shuffle to the bench with nary a word from the HC. Looking at sky shot photos of defensive alignments with Darrell Bevell didn't seem to do much either. It's apparent Favre needs a more "hands on" approach to being coached. As a coach's son, he grew up expecting it. Hell, he ran the wishbone offense in high school b/c his dad/coach thought it best.

The more communication with Favre, the more he is held to account, the better this team and season will be.


2. No huddle offense.

This shows a willingness to think outside the box and dictate tempo to the opposing defense. It is a tatic that can be employed at a moment's notice. If they see defensive groupings on the field that are mismatched to the personnel the Packer offense has, they have the ability to go right to the line of scrimmage and not allow substitutions. If the D tries, they will snap the ball and try to get a 12 men on the field violation. This keeps the defense on their heels and gives the opponent one more thing to think about in game prep.


3. Play calls on wrist bands.

Not a huge thing but something that seems effective. The new terminology M3 had brought is something that can confuse an offense, especially the QB who was used to a certain way of calling plays for years. "Black 54 Y stick" from last year could be "Blue 45 zebra jet" this year. Now, Favre gets the play, say it's "21". He calls 21 in the huddle and Jennings, Driver, etc.. look at their wrist band to get on the same page. It cuts through the muddle and eliminates misinterpratation. This is especially true in a loud dome on the road. I don't recall the Packers burning any timeouts for improper formations or getting penalized for such last week. Every one on O seemed to be on the same wave length.


4. Willingness to use trick plays.

Again, nothing earth shattering. Still, having the stones to call a fake punt or something along those lines convey a feeling to the players that he'll do what it takes to win the game. Bill Cowher has done this for years and when done properly can be huge.

This is not to say gadget plays should be used every game. They should only be used when a flaw is discovered through game film study of the opponent and there is a high probability it will be successful. The use of trick plays also gives your opponent just one more thing they have to be aware of and study for in game prep, and that takes away from meat & potato game planning they would likely much rather use time on.


Well, there you have it. I'm not trying to say that M3 is on the way to greatness or anything like that. Just a little early season observations, IMO.

[MJZiggy]

You forgot having the balls to go for it on 4th-and-1 if the situation calls for it.

[pittstang5]

I definitely like the no huddle or "let's get the play off while the Defense is trying to figure it out" plays. Although EVERYONE on the Offense needs to be ready for that. This past week, I saw Favre shouting and hurrying to get the play off with Fergie trotting out of the backfield then hurrying up once he realized what was going on.

I'd like to see this against the Eagles on Monday, especially if a majority of their starting secondary is out.

[esoxx]

Ziggy, I think all coaches will go for it on 4th & 1 from time to time. Sherman is known for punting on that down and distance at Philly with the game on the line but there were many times he did go for it too.

Simply going for it b/c it's 4th & 1 doesn't get any special kudos in my book. In the opener, Favre was stopped for no gain when Moll didn't get proper leverage and blew his assignment.

[MJZiggy]

I guess I was saying more that he seems to be playing to win rather than playing not to lose. It seems to me that he's being more aggressive in what he's doing than we've seen recently.

[esoxx]

I definitely like the no huddle or "let's get the play off while the Defense is trying to figure it out" plays. Although EVERYONE on the Offense needs to be ready for that. This past week, I saw Favre shouting and hurrying to get the play off with Fergie trotting out of the backfield then hurrying up once he realized what was going on.



Good point. This is something that they will get better at, I would assume, as the season goes on and more experience is gained. Operating with three rookies in the lineup on O, and functioning as well as they have to date is a minor miracle in it's own right. Starting three rookies on one side of the ball is generally unheard of.

[esoxx]

I guess I was saying more that he seems to be playing to win rather than playing not to lose. It seems to me that he's being more aggressive in what he's doing than we've seen recently.


touche'

That also falls in line with the trick play factor we've been seeing.

[HarveyWallbangers]

4th and a foot in the opponent's territory? I'd go for it EVERY time if I were a coach.

[CyclonePackFan]

4th and a foot in the opponent's territory? I'd go for it EVERY time if I were a coach.

No kidding. My philosophy has always been:

"If we can't get 6 inches, we don't deserve to be on the field"

[Noodle]

This is a good thread, and I like very much the 4 items that got mentioned. You could also throw in his willingness to change the training camp schedule so that guys would stay fresher.

There's a lot to like about M3. He got touted as a no-nonesense guy, and I'm sure he is, but he's shown a real ability to adapt that I think is crucial.

I've heard guys like Jason Wilde suggest M3 ain't got the smarts to get it done, but what I've seen is an independent thinker who's not afraid to do innovative things (wrist bands are a great example) to give his team a chance to win.

And have you heard his press conferences? He really gets in to some football detail, much more than most coaches. And yeah, I get tired of, "we need to fix that," but what the heck else is the guy supposed to say when asked why somebody blew a play.

It's too early to form a solid view on him, but I'm trending strongly toward being very impressed with M3.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I like him, but I'm worried about the staff he hired defensively. I'd be hypocritical if I faulted him for Sanders because I thought it was a good move, but Schottenheimer?

[4and12to12and4]

Good thread. Good points. One thing that has been very impressive to me through the first three games is the lack of pentalties we've had. I thought that this team would be plagued with penalties for at least the first half of the season because of all the youth on both sides of the ball, but they have done a very good job in this area, which would indicate that MM is doing a good job in the disciplinary department during practice making sure that these young players know their assignments. It is an especially good sign considering that we have two (three) rookie guards in there, and they have rarely had false start issues, even last week in the loud dome.

[packrulz]

I would also like to add he watches what is going on in the game and doesn't stare at his playsheet too much. He's willing to make adjustments during the game and let Favre call audibles too. His clock management is better. He's not so conservative all the time.

[esoxx]

Good thread. Good points. One thing that has been very impressive to me through the first three games is the lack of pentalties we've had. I thought that this team would be plagued with penalties for at least the first half of the season because of all the youth on both sides of the ball, but they have done a very good job in this area, which would indicate that MM is doing a good job in the disciplinary department during practice making sure that these young players know their assignments. It is an especially good sign considering that we have two (three) rookie guards in there, and they have rarely had false start issues, even last week in the loud dome.

Yes, they really put an emphasis on that during training camp too. If anyone had a false start they would immediately be yanked for a play and replaced. No pussy footing around. He seems to be able to get his point across in clear, consise ways.

[RashanGary]

I've been pretty impressed with McCarthy as well.

I don't know about the run game Jagz installed. I think Jagz might be a flop. Sanders has looked like shit too. Maybe the players on defense really got that much worse in a year or maybe the DC isn't doing his job.

Both of these guys could pan out. Maybe Sanders is trying to complicate things and maybe he'll realize that just going with the simple defense and letting his guys make plays is the way to go like what seemed to happen last season.

McCarthy looks good. Favre looks great. The passing game is fresh. That was what McCarthy brought to the table. It's the run game and defense that are the problems and those are the coordinators he hired so that better get fixed or he should consider new assistants.

[Harlan Huckleby]

5) Macho Pittsburgh guy

[Kiwon]

esoxx, good analysis. I like those things as well.

Credit too has to go to Farve as well that he is still coachable at age 36. Many players in his position would not have come back for the first year of a rookie head coach, but he did and MM is helping him to play well.

Now if we can get our Dbs to play up to their ability.....

[wist43]

I like that he has enough sense to max protect for Favre.

He seems to understand that his OL is junk and is willing to do what it takes to keep Favre upright. Last year, the crux of every Sherman game plan was to ensure that Favre went running for his life on every play.

Defensively, they're a complete mess; but, it appears that the defense is almost entirely under the direction of Sanders - who, if he doesn't get things turned around may be out of a job at the end of the season.

Overall, it's far too early to tell what we have here, but there does appear to be signs of hope.

[esoxx]

Great point on the max protect, wist. If you give #4 some time, he will usually rip the D a new one. Too often last season he was running for his life with disasterous results. The empty backfields in shotgun formation were all too common as well.

[woodbuck27]

Now ! I see the light at the end of the tunnel.

I like that we arn't as predictable on "O".

I love the wristband approach to tune in fast on a given play.

I'm happy to see that Favre isn't seeming to be so alone with "the HEAT" and coming off the field to study the play sheet for some answer,He's good for M3 and right back at him. M3 and Favre a TEAM.

Favre " is ALIVE " again, because he's since the OTA's, bought into Mike McCarthy. Their on "the same page".

YES ! The no huddle "in your face" we're coming at YOU approach, is "the way". It's not restricted... to after "the 2 Minute Warning".

Great thread post Esoxx. :mrgreen:

GO PACKERS ! DOWN ON EAGLES !!

We CAN OVERCOME 14 Year's of Eagle domination next Monday Night.

[LEWCWA]

If he would only take the bomb out of this offense I would be on board...Damn Favre has no clue how to throw the bomb!!

[HarveyWallbangers]

If he would only take the bomb out of this offense I would be on board...Damn Favre has no clue how to throw the bomb!!

You mean like the one he threw to Rison in the Super Bowl? He ain't bad. It's not what he's best at, but he's okay. You need to have the deep pass in your playbook to keep defenses honest--whether it works or not. Otherwise, defenses will just sit on your underneath routes.

[Fritz]

. No huddle offense.

This shows a willingness to think outside the box and dictate tempo to the opposing defense. It is a tatic that can be employed at a moment's notice. If they see defensive groupings on the field that are mismatched to the personnel the Packer offense has, they have the ability to go right to the line of scrimmage and not allow substitutions. If the D tries, they will snap the ball and try to get a 12 men on the field violation. This keeps the defense on their heels and gives the opponent one more thing to think about in game prep.


Okay, maybe this is something you guys can help me understand. During the Lions game when the Pack was deep in Detroit territory, GB tried the hurry-up, the Lions had twelve men on the field, the play was whistled dead just before Noah Herron hit the goal line, and the call was that the defense had a right to get the right players on the field during the hurry-up offense. Or at least that's what I thought the announcers said. What? I never heard of that before.

[MJZiggy]

According to how it was explained, you can use the no-huddle, but you can't substitute personnel yourself without giving the defense a chance to substitute as well. You can march right down the field with the group you have when you begin the no-huddle but they seem to think that if you change players, the defense has a right to adjust.

[Bretsky]

I just wanna give Esoxx props for a great thread.

I criticized Shermy for not doing some of the things MM is doing.

It's nice to see creativity by the coach in utilizing a HOF QB with experience.

I love the audible

I love the No Huddle

And I love the perception that MM is more active and hands on with BF.

I've always felt Favre needs to be constantly challenged and the no huddle and audibles force him to be more mentally focued/prepared for each play

[KYPack]

I like MM holding the players accountable. Benching Colin Cole was a great move. You play like shit in the second game, you don't dress for the third game. That sends a solid message to the team.

He acts like a coach on the sideline. He was a little shaky in his first game, but he acts like the guy in charge of the joint, a leader.

He gets the team ready to play. Even though we've been severely out-manned once (Bear game) we played hard and we were still fighting at the end of the games. He doesn't have quitters on the team.

As some have said, he exercises risk/reward. He'll put his neck on the line in situations where a sold gamble will help the team

[pbmax]

If he would only take the bomb out of this offense I would be on board...Damn Favre has no clue how to throw the bomb!!

You mean like the one he threw to Rison in the Super Bowl? He ain't bad. It's not what he's best at, but he's okay. You need to have the deep pass in your playbook to keep defenses honest--whether it works or not. Otherwise, defenses will just sit on your underneath routes.
Yes, but those were the days when with Chmura and Jackson and Levens, you might see single coverage on a WR with only one safety to help.

The last WR with single coverage in a Packer uniform was Ferguson and he cut the route off and was back at the huddle before the ball hit the ground 50 yds downfield.

[HarveyWallbangers]

That deep throw to Ferguson last week was a great throw. Right on the money. The defender made a terrific play.

[LEWCWA]

That throw to Rison in the Super Bowl was not a "bomb" as I am referring to it as! That pass was about a 25 yard laser beam that Rison took the rest of the way! I'm talking about a pass where the QB puts air under the ball an floats it to a reciever 50 yards down field and it hits him in stride. Favre has no clue how to throw this kind of pass!

[vince]

I like MM holding the players accountable. Benching Colin Cole was a great move. You play like shit in the second game, you don't dress for the third game. That sends a solid message to the team.

He acts like a coach on the sideline. He was a little shaky in his first game, but he acts like the guy in charge of the joint, a leader.

He gets the team ready to play. Even though we've been severely out-manned once (Bear game) we played hard and we were still fighting at the end of the games. He doesn't have quitters on the team.

As some have said, he exercises risk/reward. He'll put his neck on the line in situations where a sold gamble will help the team
Absolutely 100% agree, KY... Holding the players accountable for their performance is the best thing that he brings to the team as a leader.

I don't want to hijack the thread and get off topic, but this attitude is at the root of the "we're not rebuilding mentality." Of course we're rebuilding, but that's no excuse for poor performance. From what I've seen, MM will get the most out of the talent and experience he has to work with.

I also think he has very good command of what he's trying to do offensively - given his personnel - from the inexperienced oline to the style of west coast offense and playcalling that gets results offensively.

[MJZiggy]

I don't want to hijack the thread and get off topic, but this attitude is at the root of the "we're not rebuilding mentality." Of course we're rebuilding, but that's no excuse for poor performance. From what I've seen, MM will get the most out of the talent and experience he has to work with.


I've been saying that for weeks and no one has agreed with me about it.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I don't want to hijack the thread and get off topic, but this attitude is at the root of the "we're not rebuilding mentality." Of course we're rebuilding, but that's no excuse for poor performance. From what I've seen, MM will get the most out of the talent and experience he has to work with.


I've been saying that for weeks and no one has agreed with me about it.


Well, OK. If MM takes the position that the talent is in place, then the team ought to finish with a winning record or the coaching is no good. I haven't heard him volunteer for such accountability.

I'm unimpressed that TT and MM insist that the team is not rebuilding. I understand WHY they say it, but it's bullshit. I'd be more admiring if they told the truth.

[Lurker64]

I'm unimpressed that TT and MM insist that the team is not rebuilding. I understand WHY they say it, but it's bullshit. I'd be more admiring if they told the truth.

For a coach or a GM to admit that the team is "rebuilding" is tantamount to giving up, and it's certainly not going to make the team any better this year. Players don't play well when you give them a license to play poorly and get away with it because "well, the team is rebuilding, we shouldn't be surprised if they suck."

I would be terribly disappointed with any coach or GM who actually admitted that the team was "rebuilding" in a professional league, even if it's true.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Lurker, I really don't think players would get the message that it's ok to suck.

The coach and players would be expected to make week-to-week improvement in any event.

People are smart,they know the truth. It never hurts to state it.

[Lurker64]

Lurker, I really don't think players would get the message that it's ok to suck.

The coach and players would be expected to make week-to-week improvement in any event.

People are smart,they know the truth. It never hurts to state it.

No, but by "we're rebuilding" you put a ceiling on the expectations for the team and the players. If you set a ceiling for those expectations, there's an incentive to play "up to expectation" and not go any further. This is neither desireable nor acceptable. Saying that "we're rebuilding" gives license to "be competitive" and "improve week to week" instead of, well, winning. Winning should be our expectation for the players, and the players expectation for themselves. "Rebuilding" is just an excuse that mitigates the sting of the failure of "not winning."

Rebuilding is something you did, never something you're doing. It's ungrammatical, but it's true.

[MJZiggy]

I absolutely agree with that, Lurker. Everyone knows we're rebuilding including the players, but not admitting it forces the players to behave as if the coach doesn't know we're rebuilding, in other words, play like we're not.

[vince]

Lurker, I really don't think players would get the message that it's ok to suck.

The coach and players would be expected to make week-to-week improvement in any event.

People are smart,they know the truth. It never hurts to state it.
It's not about what is the "truth." Whether or not the Packers are actually "rebuilding" is irrelevant to what needs to be done to establish a team's mindset of accepting no excuses, setting high expectations and holding players personally accountable for performance - starting now.

A team who's coach publicly admits to being in a "rebuilding" mode gives his team a built-in excuse for today's poor performance. That's unacceptable to everyone involved, including us fans.

[The Shadow]

Teams should ALWAYS be rebuilding.
Get better or get worse.

[woodbuck27]

That throw to Rison in the Super Bowl was not a "bomb" as I am referring to it as! That pass was about a 25 yard laser beam that Rison took the rest of the way! I'm talking about a pass where the QB puts air under the ball an floats it to a reciever 50 yards down field and it hits him in stride. Favre has no clue how to throw this kind of pass!


Your correct on that pass to Andre Rison in Super Bowl XXXI. The actual pass to Rison, as he slanted off the left side of the field and was hit in stride wasn't "the Bomb". That pass did catch the Pat's secondary napping but it wasn't a long pass..

Now... can Favre throw "the Bomb" ? Has Brett Favre demonstrated that he can throw "the Bomb"? YES !

The date Mon., Oct. 7 at Chicago Bears (@ Champaign, Ill.) in a game won by " the Packers " by a score of... 34 - 21.

The amazing play took place early in that game in the 1st Quarter.

The playa that caught "the Bomb" from Brett Favre, WR Donald Driver

Driver's sensational run and catch and run for a TOUCHDOWN. Was made on a dead run, as he moved deep and left down the field, from his position on the right side of the line of scrimmage, on an approx. 53 yard pass from Brett Favre.

Favre had taken up a position on the field slanting back and to his left to set up the long strike. This move by Favre gave the time that Donald Driver needed to get lined up on the same side of the field (left) as Brett Favre.

Here is how the play was described from:

http://www.packers.com/news/releases/2002/10/08/3/

Quarterback Brett Favre, in virtuosic form, set a spectacular tone on the first play of the Packers' second possession in the opening quarter, rolling to his left and lofting a strike to split end Donald Driver, who gathered the ball in on the run and streaked to the end zone - an 85-yard pass-and-run collaboration executed before the Memorial Stadium crowd of 60,000-plus was fully aware of what was transpiring.

That was "the Favre... Bomb".

:idea: Do you now re-call that play, from that Monday Nighrt Football game?

I hope that I never forget it as long as I live. It was sweet !! :mrgreen:

[Fosco33]

That throw to Rison in the Super Bowl was not a "bomb" as I am referring to it as! That pass was about a 25 yard laser beam that Rison took the rest of the way! I'm talking about a pass where the QB puts air under the ball an floats it to a reciever 50 yards down field and it hits him in stride. Favre has no clue how to throw this kind of pass!

I agree with Wood on this one. He has had success with 'bowbs' - in that same game he hit Freeman on a long toss. Or what about the Detroit wild card toss to Sharpe? It'd be nice to reference his lifetime stats on long throws - maybe I'll do some homework tonight.

[RashanGary]

I think saying "We only won 4 games last year. Some players and coaches didn't do their jobs and now they have a new, lesser paying ones. We have a bunch of new faces here and you're all competing for jobs. Some people don't expect us to win a lot of games. Only time will tell but if we lose 12 games again, you can expect many of you will not have jobs.

When we lose, it means someone didn't do their job. I suggest you all compete and we come out and win a bunch of games. If not, we'll be looking at a whole new group of people and some of you will never make a penny in this league again. Are we expected to lose some games? Sure, but I don't think any of you should get any comfort in that because it just means many of you will probably be looking for new jobs. Us coaches are included in taht as well."

That is the truth. The truth is there are no excuses for individuals. The truth is, if they don't play well, they won't have jobs. I don't see any good in saying anything else. I don't see any truth in it either.

[woodbuck27]

I absolutely agree with that, Lurker. Everyone knows we're rebuilding including the players, but not admitting it forces the players to behave as if the coach doesn't know we're rebuilding, in other words, play like we're not.

and EVERYTHING is....BEAUTIFUL...in it's OWN WAY.

Isn't that convenient ! Ehh?

[GBRulz]

There is no doubt that Favre can throw the bomb. Maybe we would have seen more of it if he had a GM that brought in a big play WR once during his career.

[woodbuck27]

Also in that Game against the Bears where Favre threw that long bomb to Donald Driver (see my previous post in this thread):

The Bears, refusing to go away, mounted a drive of their own, putting together a pair of first downs and reaching the Green Bay 40 before safety Darren Sharper intercepted a Miller pass at the Packers' 10-yard line.

Favre quickly put the Packers in field goal range with a 49-yard strike to Glenn **, a maneuver which carried them to the Bears' 25, but Longwell's subsequent, 36-yard effort was wide right late in the third quarter.

"the Bomb - twice" in that same game.

Overall, the Packers emerged with their second-best offensive outing of the season, a 457-yard effort (124 rushing and 333 passing), Ahman Green spearheading the ground game with a 107-yard performance.

Favre closed out the evening with a season-high 359 passing yards and three touchdowns - on 22 completions in 33 attempts - without an interception.

Eight of his passes went to flanker Terry Glenn, who emerged with 154 yards, a team single-game high for the season.

Four other throws went to the consistently productive Donald Driver, who closed out his evening with 120 yards - his first career 100-yard receiving game.

THE FAVRE FILE - from that Game:

Brett Favre once more further entrenched himself among professional football's all-time elite passers by reaching another major milestone. Before the first half was over Monday night, he had become the third-faster player in National Football League history - and the eighth overall - to pass for 40,000 yards in a career, attaining the lofty plateau in 166 games. Dan Marino was the fastest to 40,000 yards (153 games) and Warren Moon ranks second (165 games).

Favre tied another all-time great in another major category by presiding over his 107th career victory as a starting quarterback, a total which ties him with Terry Bradshaw for fifth place.

And, beyond those achievements, the freewheeling Southern Mississippi alum's three touchdown passes swelled his career total to 298 and lifted him to within two of John Elway, who currently ranks third in NFL history with 300. Marino is the all-time leader with 420, followed by Fran Tarkenton with 342.

In Monday night's process, Favre likewise established a personal best with 180 passing yards in the first quarter and finished the first half with an imposing 146.2 quarterback rating, based on 287 passing yards and 3 touchdowns, without an interception.

[woodbuck27]

There is no doubt that Favre can throw the bomb. Maybe we would have seen more of it if he had a GM that brought in a big play WR once during his career.

but ...but but... we're secretly re-building GBRulz,

and being so secret in the process,

that... for OUR GM Ted Thompson to have even tried to retain Javon Walker, or to replace him with a solid Vet. WR.

Might mean... that it wouldn't appear as though we're secretly re-building. Because Brett Favre would have another REAL weapon he could use to enhance OUR chances for stringing wins.

Stringing wins and making the playoffs are not compatible with secretly re-building, GBRulz.

Not compatible "AT ALL ".

As then the pressure would be on Ted Thompson to finish the job and put us in tight for a Super Bowl with Favre still at QB.

NOT THE PLAN !!

[pbmax]

Admitting, or not admitting, rebuilding is strictly a PR matter.

Letting your players know that rebuilding or no, you are expected to win your individual battles or be replaced is the important part. The need to put aside the desire to coast.

If T2 and McCarthy are throwing veterans over the side and benching others that have poor preformances, or refusing to play talent that hadn't been committed to practicing the correct way, and bringing in possible replacements through whatever means during the season (trade, waiver, practice squad) then it would be hard to have a sense of complacency as a player.

No matter whether you spoke the R word or not.

And Woodie, I don't believe anyone is saying that Favre never completed a long pass. But the bomb has never been his best pass, even when he has a single coverage go route on the sidelines. And he has definitely struggled throwing that deep ball in the middle with double coverage.

The Oakland game was a near miracle, not the least of which was how many jump balls Walker, Driver and Ferguson won over the Raider DBs.

And Harvey, I was joking about Ferguson and the deep ball. Just playing off his too frequent habit of breaking of routes with little warning and returning sheepishly to the huddle while the ball sails by.

[woodbuck27]

"And Woodie, I don't believe anyone is saying that Favre never completed a long pass. But the bomb has never been his best pass," pbmax

Nice to see you Packer fan.

pbmax. What QB in NFL ALL TIME History had "the Bomb" as his BEST pass?

I believe, that there have been few QB's to ever play the NFL game with maybe an exception being John Elway, who had as strong an arm as Brett Favre.

Now I stand aside "in respect of YOU" pbmax, as one that may inform us differently.

The Bomb to me,denotes two things:

a long pass and a catch of that long pass. The Bomb.

It's all about:

a) a QB with the arm strength pass**

** that pass long,deep and accurate.

to a WR who...

b) has the speed and skills to run "the down on the fly", catch a CB napping and blow past him, to enable catching that long pass.


Sometimes I wonder if fans don't mix up Favre's ability to pass deep, with "the fact" he too often has felt a need or been called upon to air the ball out... in some rush of desperation.

[woodbuck27]

RE: Brett Favre and NOT being able to throw "the Bomb" ?

This just in:

NOTE OF THE WEEK:

** Greg Jennings is only the third NFL player since 1990 to make a TD reception of at least 75 yards within the first three games of his career (Elias Sports Bureau).

** The Jennings reception not only was Brett Favre's 400th touchdown pass, but...

also Brett Favre's 10th of 75 or more yards.

That tied the all-time NFL record for TD passes of 75-plus yards,....

shared by George Blanda, Ed Brown, Len Dawson, Sonny Jurgensen and Norm Snead.

So certainly, Brett Favre can be considered at the TOP of ALL QB's in NFL History as certainly proving he's capable of delivering " the Bomb ".

Also that...saves Fosco33 and I, alot of research. :mrgreen:

and there... is ...the rest of the story.

[Fosco33]

RE: Brett Favre and NOT being able to throw "the Bomb" ?

This just in:

NOTE OF THE WEEK:

** Greg Jennings is only the third NFL player since 1990 to make a TD reception of at least 75 yards within the first three games of his career (Elias Sports Bureau).

** The Jennings reception not only was Brett Favre's 400th touchdown pass, but...

also Brett Favre's 10th of 75 or more yards.

That tied the all-time NFL record for TD passes of 75-plus yards,....

shared by George Blanda, Ed Brown, Len Dawson, Sonny Jurgensen and Norm Snead.

So certainly, Brett Favre can be considered at the TOP of ALL QB's in NFL History as certainly proving he's capable of delivering " the Bomb ".

Also that...saves Fosco33 and I, alot of research. :mrgreen:

and there... is ...the rest of the story.

Lovely, Wood. But I'm a stat man regardless. It's a difficult stat to locate though, so it may warrant a thread all its own.

[RashanGary]

Did Favre complete Bombs or did his guys run for TD's?

He certainly completed many 40 + yards in teh air to Walker but I don't remember too many other than to Walker.

When I say Bomb, I don't think long runs, I think long passes through the air. I don't remember Favre completed many to WR's not named Walker but I could be wrong.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'm sure some were. He threw a bomb in the 1993 playoffs at Detroit to Sharpe for the game winner. I remember in 1992 when he threw a perfect bomb to Sharpe on a play-action pass at Chicago. I remember several to Javon Walker. The throw to Walker when he got hurt in Detroit last year was an example. He had a great deep throw to Driver at Chicago (or Champaign) on a Monday night. Let's not make this out to be he can't throw the deep ball. If you want to say he's average, that's fine. I'd say he's slightly above average. If there's one throw that he's not as good at as other throws, it's probably the one.

[RashanGary]

Yeah..We're really picking the guy apart here. He might not be the best ever but he's been pretty damn good at everything hasn't he?

[Fosco33]

Did Favre complete Bombs or did his guys run for TD's?

He certainly completed many 40 + yards in teh air to Walker but I don't remember too many other than to Walker.

When I say Bomb, I don't think long runs, I think long passes through the air. I don't remember Favre completed many to WR's not named Walker but I could be wrong.

Yeah, you're referring to Yards AT Catch - which when combined with YAC = total reception yards. There's a decent breakdown from ESPN on pass attempts by yardage (Y@C or Attempt) - I'll post the truth here soon.

YTD - Brett is 3 of 18 on pass attempts thrown over 21 yards (0-5 on 41+)

[HarveyWallbangers]

YTD - Brett is 3 of 18 on pass attempts thrown over 21 yards (0-5 on 41+)

How does that compare to other QBs? That also doesn't take into consideration the situation. That deep ball to Ferguson last week was a good throw--just a good play made by the DB.

Does it have a breakdown for previous years? It seems like his shots downfield this year have been the keep the honest variety. I know a couple of them went out of bounds--rather than risk an interception.

[Fosco33]

YTD - Brett is 3 of 18 on pass attempts thrown over 21 yards (0-5 on 41+)

How does that compare to other QBs? That also doesn't take into consideration the situation. That deep ball to Ferguson last week was a good throw--just a good play made by the DB.

Does it have a breakdown for previous years? It seems like his shots downfield this year have been the keep the honest variety. I know a couple of them went out of bounds--rather than risk an interception.

Yeah, it'll never be perfect - end of game attempts; attempts when down 14+ w/ 4 minutes remaining, etc. I'm going through a detailed analysis of his career numbers in this arena - give me a few other notable QBs to analyze and we can compare.

This really is OT for the thread and should be moved or started again though.

EDIT - McNabb is 5 for 12 (187 yds) w/ no attempts greater than 40+.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Interesting stats. I think part of the problem for Brett is those late deep throws (and picks) against Chicago. None were completed and one or two were picked.

Under 30, maybe even up to 40 yards isn't really a bomb though. Just looking at 40+ yards would probably be more pertinent. Not one of McNabb's attempts have been 40+ yards down the field. Brett's had 5 of them, and hasn't completed one.
:shock:

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'd like to see how he compares to some of his contemporaries. Guys like Drew Bledsoe, Mark Brunell, Brad Johnson and Steve McNair. It's kind of hard to compare him to guys that aren't yet in their prime or guys that are in the prime that aren't on the backside of their career. Bigger sample size too. You figure the breaks (poor defense, great receiver or not, etc.) would even out over 10-15 years.

It's apparent looking at some of these guys numbers though that the completion percentage isn't real high for long throws. Brad Johnson is 4 for 27 the last two years on throws over 30 yards. It also points out how important Javon Walker is. Brett went 8 of 18 on 40+ yard throws in 2003 and 2004.

[LEWCWA]

When I think of Favre throwing the deep ball I see him trying to throw the ball to the moon which usually makes it an under thrown ball. He just doesn't have the touch, I have seen it to many times....and that deep ball last week to Fergy was not even close!

[Bretsky]

Did Favre complete Bombs or did his guys run for TD's?

He certainly completed many 40 + yards in teh air to Walker but I don't remember too many other than to Walker.

When I say Bomb, I don't think long runs, I think long passes through the air. I don't remember Favre completed many to WR's not named Walker but I could be wrong.


Intersesting comments; I was thinking the same thing. It appears most of Favre's deep balls have been to Walker. Watched the NFL Network at the health club last night and saw the Cincy Pitt previews from last week.

One thing stood out and right now the Packers dearly miss that with Walker gone. TJ Housch went up and beat the CB on a couple deeper balls just thrown up.

We are now missing that lengthy tall guy to go up and beat the CB and get the ball when he's not really open. Love Driver and Jennings, but they don't have that skills due to size. Ferguson could but he stinks. We need that arsenal for our QB.


B

[J-Rok]

When I read the Woody's, I thought of this play immediately. Don't see many of these in the NFL.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=N_y5UZmTPHk&search=

[Fosco33]

When I read the Woody's, I thought of this play immediately. Don't see many of these in the NFL.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=N_y5UZmTPHk&search=

That was only a 30 yard pass and wouldn't be considered a 'bomb' - but regardless one of my fav plays as well.

[J-Rok]

Well, I think the qualifications for a "bomb" change when you snap the ball at your own one and throw the ball from inside the endzone. Extremely gutsy to throw a 10 yarder in that situation, let alone a 30 yard pass.

[MadtownPacker]

Check out the homepage for #5, #6, and #7 of Esoxx's things to like about M3! (http://packerrats.com)