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Bretsky
09-29-2006, 10:43 PM
Big Bang Theory
Poor communication blamed for mistakes
By BOB McGINN
bmcginn@journalsentinel.com
Posted: Sept. 29, 2006

Green Bay - The Green Bay Packers, three weeks into the regular season and more than six months since the start of coach Mike McCarthy's off-season workout program, have been bedeviled by a pattern of damaging mistakes in pass coverage under first-year defensive coordinator Bob Sanders.


Green Bay has allowed 16 passes of 20 yards or more, more than three times their total of five after three games last season.

The Packers are on pace to give up 85 such gains over a full season. From 1995-'05, the most 20-plus passes allowed by Green Bay in a season was 60 in '95. The lowest yield was 36 last year.

Of the 16 long passes, middle linebacker Nick Barnett estimated that about 14 were at least partially the result of mental breakdowns. The critical pre-snap interaction among players has not been good, according to Barnett.

"A lot of the stuff we've messed up on is communication," Barnett said Friday. "Calling the wrong check. Making the wrong checks. Thinking you're supposed to cut when you're not supposed to cut."

It's an indictment both of the coaches and players on defense that mistakes continue running rampant after so much teaching time has been spent on the field and in meeting rooms.

"It's a talented group and we need to get better at being on the same page," McCarthy said at mid-week. "It's a problem. The other 85-90% is really good defense. Now we're playing against the top-ranked offense in the league. They've played wide-open their first three games so I anticipate they're going to be playing wide-open Monday night."

The Philadelphia Eagles, who lead the league in passing with 307 yards per game, will attack the Packers' pass defense that is ranked 31st with a yield of 301.

"We've been trying to communicate and it's been getting better, but I wouldn't say it's where we want it to be," Barnett said. "It's not hard to improve where we are. It's just minor things. But minor things turn out to be big things when you don't get it communicated right."

No one player has been responsible for more than three of the 20-plus passes. Five defensive backs, three linebackers and one defensive lineman have been charged.

Sanders, a disciple of the departed Jim Bates, calls the defense from the sideline just as his mentor did last season. His defensive staff includes two holdovers, defensive tackles coach Robert Nunn and defensive nickel package coach Lionel Washington.

The Packers continue to use the match-zone system of coverage that Bates brought to Green Bay. They prefer to work with both safeties back, generally in "quarters" or a form of Cover 2.

"We're running the same scheme," cornerback Al Harris said. "It's a great scheme. Everybody loves the scheme. We've just got to come up with the plays."

Neither Barnett nor cornerback Al Harris said the calls made by Sanders were much of a factor in what has transpired.

"I think the game is being called pretty good with the exception of a couple calls, a couple mistakes," said Barnett. "He (Sanders) admits that himself. Other than that, even with those calls, if you execute, I still think we can stop the plays. Guys physically can cover guys. If we clean up the communication, it's all good."

Harris was asked if the teaching by the present defensive staff was as good as the players in the secondary received last year.

"Yeah," he replied. "I think Lionel Washington does a great job. . . an exceptional job. He played the position for 15 years on this level. 'Big Daddy' (Carl Hairston). Winston Moss. All these guys have played in the league. Great coaches."

One of two new starters, strong safety Marquand Manuel, sounded almost like a broken record when asked for his opinion. In a four-minute interview Friday, he referred seven times to the importance of players knowing where their help was on each pass.

"If you're inside and a guy is coming to help you from the inside and you should have been outside, we're not good enough to be able to make mistakes like that," Manuel said. "Dropped coverages, I don't understand that. The biggest thing we're emphasizing is doing your job and being in the right spot."

Manuel and the other safety, Nick Collins, each has given up two long touchdown passes. Their combined total of five 20-plus pass plays allowed in three games is the exact same amount that Collins and the departed Mark Roman allowed in 16 games last season.

"I think those two safeties are both bad cover guys," a personnel director said Thursday after watching the Packers' first three games. "Any inside passing game, any post-corner, anything over the top they're to help with, forget it. I don't know how the hell Manuel stays on the field. He's not a good player at all."

Billed as a savvy veteran whose forte was running a secondary, Manuel missed the first 2 1/2 weeks of training camp with a calf injury. However, he insisted the down time didn't affect him.

"I can let you know what we're in and where I'm going to be at, but if you don't understand where your help is I can't do anything," he said. "I can't be Marquand and you. I can't be in the flat and make the play in the post."

One of Mike Sherman's strengths was fixing the problem of the week. McCarthy, in turn, must patch the pass defense Monday night to have a chance.

woodbuck27
09-29-2006, 10:57 PM
Big Bang Theory
Poor communication blamed for mistakes
By BOB McGINN
bmcginn@journalsentinel.com
Posted: Sept. 29, 2006

Green Bay - The Green Bay Packers, three weeks into the regular season and more than six months since the start of coach Mike McCarthy's off-season workout program, have been bedeviled by a pattern of damaging mistakes in pass coverage under first-year defensive coordinator Bob Sanders.


Green Bay has allowed 16 passes of 20 yards or more, more than three times their total of five after three games last season.

The Packers are on pace to give up 85 such gains over a full season. From 1995-'05, the most 20-plus passes allowed by Green Bay in a season was 60 in '95. The lowest yield was 36 last year.

Of the 16 long passes, middle linebacker Nick Barnett estimated that about 14 were at least partially the result of mental breakdowns. The critical pre-snap interaction among players has not been good, according to Barnett.

"A lot of the stuff we've messed up on is communication," Barnett said Friday. "Calling the wrong check. Making the wrong checks. Thinking you're supposed to cut when you're not supposed to cut."

It's an indictment both of the coaches and players on defense that mistakes continue running rampant after so much teaching time has been spent on the field and in meeting rooms.

"It's a talented group and we need to get better at being on the same page," McCarthy said at mid-week. "It's a problem. The other 85-90% is really good defense. Now we're playing against the top-ranked offense in the league. They've played wide-open their first three games so I anticipate they're going to be playing wide-open Monday night."

The Philadelphia Eagles, who lead the league in passing with 307 yards per game, will attack the Packers' pass defense that is ranked 31st with a yield of 301.

"We've been trying to communicate and it's been getting better, but I wouldn't say it's where we want it to be," Barnett said. "It's not hard to improve where we are. It's just minor things. But minor things turn out to be big things when you don't get it communicated right."

No one player has been responsible for more than three of the 20-plus passes. Five defensive backs, three linebackers and one defensive lineman have been charged.

Sanders, a disciple of the departed Jim Bates, calls the defense from the sideline just as his mentor did last season. His defensive staff includes two holdovers, defensive tackles coach Robert Nunn and defensive nickel package coach Lionel Washington.

The Packers continue to use the match-zone system of coverage that Bates brought to Green Bay. They prefer to work with both safeties back, generally in "quarters" or a form of Cover 2.

"We're running the same scheme," cornerback Al Harris said. "It's a great scheme. Everybody loves the scheme. We've just got to come up with the plays."

Neither Barnett nor cornerback Al Harris said the calls made by Sanders were much of a factor in what has transpired.

"I think the game is being called pretty good with the exception of a couple calls, a couple mistakes," said Barnett. "He (Sanders) admits that himself. Other than that, even with those calls, if you execute, I still think we can stop the plays. Guys physically can cover guys. If we clean up the communication, it's all good."

Harris was asked if the teaching by the present defensive staff was as good as the players in the secondary received last year.

"Yeah," he replied. "I think Lionel Washington does a great job. . . an exceptional job. He played the position for 15 years on this level. 'Big Daddy' (Carl Hairston). Winston Moss. All these guys have played in the league. Great coaches."

One of two new starters, strong safety Marquand Manuel, sounded almost like a broken record when asked for his opinion. In a four-minute interview Friday, he referred seven times to the importance of players knowing where their help was on each pass.

"If you're inside and a guy is coming to help you from the inside and you should have been outside, we're not good enough to be able to make mistakes like that," Manuel said. "Dropped coverages, I don't understand that. The biggest thing we're emphasizing is doing your job and being in the right spot."

Manuel and the other safety, Nick Collins, each has given up two long touchdown passes. Their combined total of five 20-plus pass plays allowed in three games is the exact same amount that Collins and the departed Mark Roman allowed in 16 games last season.

"I think those two safeties are both bad cover guys," a personnel director said Thursday after watching the Packers' first three games. "Any inside passing game, any post-corner, anything over the top they're to help with, forget it. I don't know how the hell Manuel stays on the field. He's not a good player at all."

Billed as a savvy veteran whose forte was running a secondary, Manuel missed the first 2 1/2 weeks of training camp with a calf injury. However, he insisted the down time didn't affect him.

"I can let you know what we're in and where I'm going to be at, but if you don't understand where your help is I can't do anything," he said. "I can't be Marquand and you. I can't be in the flat and make the play in the post."

One of Mike Sherman's strengths was fixing the problem of the week. McCarthy, in turn, must patch the pass defense Monday night to have a chance.

TWO WORD's:

NO KIDDING.

ONE WORD:

YES.

RashanGary
09-30-2006, 12:04 AM
Oh man..

This just keeps getting worse. I really hope they fix this shit.

Patler
09-30-2006, 12:13 AM
Big Bang Theory
Poor communication blamed for mistakes
By BOB McGINN
bmcginn@journalsentinel.com
Posted: Sept. 29, 2006



Harris was asked if the teaching by the present defensive staff was as good as the players in the secondary received last year.

"Yeah," he replied. "I think Lionel Washington does a great job. . . an exceptional job. He played the position for 15 years on this level. 'Big Daddy' (Carl Hairston). Winston Moss. All these guys have played in the league. Great coaches."


Interesting who Harris DIDN'T mention in his list of good coaches.

RashanGary
09-30-2006, 12:20 AM
:)

LOL....

vince
09-30-2006, 07:53 AM
Big Bang Theory
Poor communication blamed for mistakes
By BOB McGINN
bmcginn@journalsentinel.com
Posted: Sept. 29, 2006



Harris was asked if the teaching by the present defensive staff was as good as the players in the secondary received last year.

"Yeah," he replied. "I think Lionel Washington does a great job. . . an exceptional job. He played the position for 15 years on this level. 'Big Daddy' (Carl Hairston). Winston Moss. All these guys have played in the league. Great coaches."


Interesting who Harris DIDN'T mention in his list of good coaches.
I instantly thought the same thing Patler. In fact, I was thinking, great question... I wonder how he'll answer this with regard to Shottzie... His response speaks volumes about the situation I think.

These communication problems will be sorted out. Assuming that is the real problem, that bodes well for the defense overall. Obviously, the Eagles will test them, but over the course of the season, the d should improve.

As woody says, "Have faith, Packer fans." the future is bright. Hopefully, the future starts Monday night...

Tarlam!
09-30-2006, 07:56 AM
Patler, Vince, I read that and had the exact same reaction - there is a name missing here!

M3 - That's how to single out a guy, without singling out a guy...

falco
09-30-2006, 08:13 AM
Patler, Vince, I read that and had the exact same reaction - there is a name missing here!

M3 - That's how to single out a guy, without singling out a guy...

This thread is full of great posters...patler, vince, bretsky, woodbuck, gregjennings...all great posters.

j/k tarlam, you are a good poster too.

manuel has to be one of TT's biggest mistakes to date, at least in terms of acquisitions. if they are willing to let pop continue to play and screw up, might as well through culver in there and look for his upside.

although if they can somehow manage to pull out this game on monday night, its going to be a whole new state of affairs.

chewy-bacca
09-30-2006, 08:18 AM
"I think those two safeties are both bad cover guys," a personnel director said Thursday after watching the Packers' first three games. "Any inside passing game, any post-corner, anything over the top they're to help with, forget it. I don't know how the hell Manuel stays on the field. He's not a good player at all."


OUCH!!


maybe part of it is they need to pick a leader back there. If they are all shouting out info. no one is gonna hear anything. Back in the day, Buttler would let them all know what the call was. Then it was Sharper, well who is it now?

idk, just thinking outloud. I would love to see them pull it together.

Bretsky
09-30-2006, 09:54 AM
Patler, Vince, I read that and had the exact same reaction - there is a name missing here!

M3 - That's how to single out a guy, without singling out a guy...

This thread is full of great posters...patler, vince, bretsky, woodbuck, gregjennings...all great posters.

j/k tarlam, you are a good poster too.

manuel has to be one of TT's biggest mistakes to date, at least in terms of acquisitions. if they are willing to let pop continue to play and screw up, might as well through culver in there and look for his upside.

although if they can somehow manage to pull out this game on monday night, its going to be a whole new state of affairs.


Thanks for the kind words, and you're a great poster as well. In fact, that's what makes this site so special; the nember or quality posters is tremendous.

I agree with you but am willing to give Manual another month or so. TT seems to think he's a leader. But.......

Physically, it certainly appears that this guy does not have it. A good attitude leader with less talent that good old B Jue, who now plays for the Chargers. His coverage ability sure looks sub par up to this point.

If he doesn't improve soon, I'd agree we should see a lot more from Culver.

Tarlam!
09-30-2006, 10:24 AM
Somebody pass me a hanky..... :cry:

KYPack
09-30-2006, 10:35 AM
There is something else afoot here that I can't figure out. We've been all discussing this topic for a few weeks now. And the JS has been writing puff pieces with Lori Nickel trying to understand the zone D or something.

Now, reality based articles are starting to be printed, actually detailing the problems of the team.

Why so long, & why now?

Any ideas, anybody?

Bretsky
09-30-2006, 11:03 AM
There is something else afoot here that I can't figure out. We've been all discussing this topic for a few weeks now. And the JS has been writing puff pieces with Lori Nickel trying to understand the zone D or something.

Now, reality based articles are starting to be printed, actually detailing the problems of the team.

Why so long, & why now?

Any ideas, anybody?


I'd like to think many of us have as good or a better understanding of the Packers issues then the average sport writer. I'd certainly deem that to be true with regard to Lori, who I do enjoy..........but am enlighted little by.