Carroll Released

[J-Rok]

I have no idea if anyone posted this...

but...



Packers Release CB Ahmad Carroll

The Green Bay Packers on Tuesday released cornerback Ahmad Carroll. Executive Vice President, General Manager and Director of Football Operations Ted Thompson made the announcement.

Carroll, the Packers' first-round selection in the 2004 NFL Draft, played 34 games in three seasons, starting 28 contests. He had 104 tackles (95 solo), three interceptions, three sacks, 26 passes defensed, one forced fumble and one fumble recovery.

Holy crap. Well, he deserved it after that 2nd half. Brutal.

/edit for link

http://www.packers.com/news/releases/2006/10/03/1/

//edit 2 for Title

[LaFours]

Holy crap is right. I guess I can't say I didn't see it coming but man...I'm still shocked!

[Patler]

Well, no one should call TT indecisive, wishy-washy or timid.
I wonder how close to ready Blackmon is?

[FritzDontBlitz]

oh snap, i need the link NOW!!!!!

[The_Dude]

Wow...TT is really cutting the fat. Another reason why Sherman was a awful GM. His entire Day one of the 2004 draft is gone.

[J-Rok]

I typed in Packers.com about five minutes ago, and there it was. I went over here right away and couldn't believe nothing has been said. Thomson and Co. had enough of him.

[MacCool606]

I feel like a fool for saying this (just warning you in advance) - but I'm afraid he'll be picked up right away - and become a decent CB for someone else. I was kinda hoping that we would stash him someplace until we had a decent secondary coach.

[MJZiggy]

http://packers.com/news/releases/2006/10/03/1/

I'm speechless. :shock: :shock:

[Partial]

I feel like a fool for saying this (just warning you in advance) - but I'm afraid he'll be picked up right away - and become a decent CB for someone else. I was kinda hoping that we would stash him someplace until we had a decent secondary coach.

Carroll will be picked up immediately. He is a solid player and he is not afraid of contact.

[J-Rok]

I think I must have hopped onto the site right when it was fresh from the press. It's not even on kffl right now. Crazy crazy.

[packers11]

Gamble > Carroll ...

Been sayin it since day 1 :sad:

[gbpackfan]

HE'S A SOLID PLAYER?! ARE YOU SERIOUS!!!????? He is JUNK and this was a GREAT MOVE!

[Sparkey]

HURRAY! Gotta love accountability!

[MacCool606]

I think this is a "cart-before-the-horse" deal. I would really be happy if Schotts was dumped - I wouldn't care if someone else picked him up. I'll have to go put a post in the Fire Schottenheimer thread!

[esoxx]

The only thing that makes it surprising is they really have no one ready behind him. Even if Blackmon is now healthy he's way behind and can't be expected to make much of an impact.

Certainly, it could get worse. But in the end, a hard decision was made about the level of play that will be tolerated. It sends a hell of a message to the other players too.

I don't agree Carroll will go somewhere else and suddenly "develop." Too many flaws in his game.

[mission]

wow...

fuck...

i was screaming for this last night and now i think i agree more with the guy who said he could see him being decent in a better environment.

either way, im just glad i dont have to curse him anymore. im too young to be eating a pack of rolaids and the kid makes me do that.

good riddance. :waves:

[FritzDontBlitz]

somewhere joey thomas is hyperventilating from laughter...

[J-Rok]

This has to mean that Blackmon is ready to play. Our DB are now even worse with all the lack of experience we have. There's no depth whatsoever now. TT better have something in the works...

[MJZiggy]

While you're on packers.com looking at the release, check out in video clips his reaction with reporters.

http://packers.com/multimedia/video/recent/

He took complete responsibility for everything he did wrong and seemed quite upset and said he cost us the game. He wouldn't even let the reporters try and soften it and was completely unwilling to share the blame.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Carroll will be picked up immediately. He is a solid player and he is not afraid of contact.


Well, he did make some tackles last night.

Ummm, I am just BLOWN AWAY by this decision. Stunned.

I admire the move.

I will not be surprised if Carroll eventually becomes a good NFL player.

I've defended the guy, liked his ability, but the clock ran out last night.

What is especially odd is they already got rid of so many other corners. What a total house-clearing!

[MJZiggy]

That leaves a roster spot open. Wonder who gets it...

[jack's smirking revenge]

Strange timing on this move, but I think its a good one. After 3 seasons, he never amounted to anything more than an inconsistent player. Will he shine for someone else? Possibly. At least we're not dealing with the Carroll albatross anymore...

tyler

[packers11]

Is manuel in the package?? :lol:

[Patler]

I've not disliked Carroll as much as some on here, but I don't care that he's gone either. At least he was willing to stick his nose in and tackle. He came up and made a nice play on McNabb last night. I repsected the way he handled the Woodson signing. I felt sorry for him under Schottenheimer for two of his three seasons.

Oh well. Now who plays?????

[FritzDontBlitz]

i can't wait to hear what tt and m3 have to say about this.....

i'm hoping schottenheimer is next.

[AtlPackFan]

The only thing that makes it surprising is they really have no one ready behind him. Even if Blackmon is now healthy he's way behind and can't be expected to make much of an impact.

Agree! Who else is available if Blackmon isn't ready???


Certainly, it could get worse. But in the end, a hard decision was made about the level of play that will be tolerated. It sends a hell of a message to the other players too.

I don't agree Carroll will go somewhere else and suddenly "develop." Too many flaws in his game.

He certainly has flaws but can that be corrected or at least diminished in the right system with the right coaching??? I think just about everyone here agrees Shottenheimer (sp) is worthless in any capacity. Could Carroll flurish in another system and/or with another DB coach? I certainly don't know...just posing the question.

[Bossman641]

I'm definitely stunned by this. Who is going to be the nickelback? Jarrett Bush?

I wouldn't be surprised to see him end up as a decent player elsewhere either. He looked like crap his rookie year. Last year he improved and played well over the final 6-7 games of the season. This year he is back to looking like crap again. The problem is Schottenheimer. He is absolute garbage. NOBODY in the secondary is playing up to their abilities. Harris looks like he would rather grab facemasks then man up. Manuel looks like a statue out there. Most of us expected Collins to have a breakout year this season. Instead he has regressed. And Woodson looks like he doesn't care whether a pass is completed on him as long as he collects his paychecks. Their was a play last night where Woodson's man caught the ball and headed toward the sideline. Rather than chase him down he pulled up and just let the guy go.

[packers11]

I have one big problem with this move.... Couldn't they have gotten a draft pick??? A 4th? 5th? round???
You think TT looked around before releasing or just gave him the boot??

[Patler]

Could Carroll flurish in another system and/or with another DB coach? I certainly don't know...just posing the question.

It doesn't matter. The Packers have a system they are committed to for now, and if a player doesn't fit it he needs to be replaced. It happened with Gado, and Davenport to some extent. Whitticker too, and probably Barry next year.

Performance wise Carroll won't be missed. As for potential, they probably will not find someone now, as a street free agent, with the same sort of potential. But then again, Caroll may never be anything more than potential.

[AtlPackFan]

Geez, I didn't see Havel's column until now! Was this on the money or what? Now if only the second part of his column comes true!

For those who did't read it: http://www.packersnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061003/PKR07/610030652/1989

[MJZiggy]

Dendy?

Is there anyone floating around out there that could be picked up?

[mission]

Geez, I didn't see Havel's column until now! Was this on the money or what? Now if only the second part of his column comes true!

For those who did't read it: http://www.packersnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061003/PKR07/610030652/1989

yeah i just reread that and kept thinking "why not shottenheimer"?!?!?

people keep saying how unlikely it is to fire a coach in the middle of the season but he's a db coach for crying out loud. he's not THE scheme, he doesnt call the plays and he obviously isnt doing anything positive. what would we be losing, how -- really -- would that affect continuity for the season?

do we even have any?

am i really this much of a packer negball right now? yikes.......... :oops:

[Patler]

I wonder if Carroll bought an airline ticket to Houston yet??

[mission]

I wonder if Carroll bought an airline ticket to Houston yet??

naw. one's showing up via fedex tomorrow morning (business priority, of course) from a mister mike sherman.

[BF4MVP]

This surprises me big time..

Oh well, I've been saying all along that I think Blackmon will be a stud..Looks like he's going to get a chance to contribute..

[the_idle_threat]

Geez, I didn't see Havel's column until now! Was this on the money or what? Now if only the second part of his column comes true!

For those who did't read it: http://www.packersnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061003/PKR07/610030652/1989

We can only hope.

[BallHawk]

Wow. When I first saw this thread I thought it was another opinion thread saying Ahmad Carroll should be cut. But then I looked into the thread, and Wow.

Personally, I agree that KS is complete garbage, however that isn't an exscuse for the horrible play of Carroll last night. Holding and blown coverages have defined his career. I mean, there were some plays were Carroll was so far off from his man, that I thought he fell over, or tripped. But on that endzone pass to Greg Lewis, he was just outplayed. Greg Lewis did nothing fancy, just ran his route and Carroll just fell behind. I also believe his attitude may have been a factor in his release.

This is an extremely bold move by TT. This sends a message to the players; if you don't play your best, don't feel secure in your job. This could end up making matters worse for the Packers secondary. If Blackmon is aggravated by his foot, or doesn't play well, we are worse than last year.

I look at Chris Gamble and think what could of been. :sad:

[BF4MVP]

I wonder if Carroll bought an airline ticket to Houston yet??
Oh he'll be there soon..

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'm shocked because I think anybody who will replace could possibly be worse. Then again, I don't have to wait for him to fulfill his potential anymore.

[MJZiggy]

Why do I see him in SF?

[motife]

Mike McCarthy hinted Carroll would be let go in the post game press conference.

"We'll make that decision tomorrow" or something like that.

When I heard it, I interpreted it to mean they were thinking about cutting him.

It's not really a big surprise to me based on what Mike said last night about Carroll.

[mission]

I'm shocked because I think anybody who will replace could possibly be worse. Then again, I don't have to wait for him to fulfill his potential anymore.

not to sound cliche but no one could possibly be worse. definitely not.

and if the next guy is AS bad, then hey, at least we'll have hope that the guy might actually improve -- as we've been doing with batgal for the last three years.

[Guiness]

Wow - I'm stunned by this. Put me in the 'bad idea' camp.
I think it was a knee jerk reaction, and am not convinced it was a good one. You can tell me that he goes from nickel back to off the team that quickly.

Just watched the video Ziggy posted - the guy looked like he was being geniune, and accepting responsibility. He doesn't seem to be an attitide problem any more, and I'm pretty sure we're on the hook for his entire salary, so why not just let him ride the pine???

I think hypotethising about Blackmon stepping in is ridiculous. He hasn't even seen the field with real bullets yet. I don't know who's supposed to be next best, but I think you demote Carrol, promote someone else, and see what happens. If the new guy works out, fine - cut Carrol if you want. But if the next guy does a 'deer in the headlights' impression, thrown Carrol in while you work on plan C.

[packrulz]

He reminds me of T-Buck too much, cocky, but not that good.

[Guiness]

He reminds me of T-Buck too much, cocky, but not that good.

Watch the video Ziggy posted. Wasn't acting that way at all.

[Bossman641]

Quick question

On the TD pass was Collins supposed to be over the top with inside coverage? It appeared as though Carroll gave Lewis the inside and played him on his outside shoulder. He was still too far behind him and it could have just been Carroll being stupid and giving up the inside. Collins did come running over as the ball was caught though. Just makes me wonder whether Collins was late on rotating over.

[mission]

if anything, i just like it for the Fear of Loss impulse factor that it creates on the team. this isnt roses and lollypops guys, start playing some football or you're done.

we're obviously rebuilding anyway and since this week im on the super negative bandwagon, screw it, lets clean up where needed and build in the same.

[MJZiggy]

Carroll said it was just him being stupid. He said he ran by him.

[the_idle_threat]

My initial reaction is also to question who will take his spot, but with performances like last night's, TT must have decided that he himself could fill the spot better than AC without much dropoff.

I'll bet the reasoning behind this move is that AC not only failed to progress, but his uncoachable attitude makes it unlikely he ever will progress. That, and he has no field awareness, and such a thing can't be taught. Of course, we'll never know.

Watch him sign with another team very quickly, and fail to make an impression there as well.

[Bossman641]

Wow - I'm stunned by this. Put me in the 'bad idea' camp.
I think it was a knee jerk reaction, and am not convinced it was a good one. You can tell me that he goes from nickel back to off the team that quickly.

Just watched the video Ziggy posted - the guy looked like he was being geniune, and accepting responsibility. He doesn't seem to be an attitide problem any more, and I'm pretty sure we're on the hook for his entire salary, so why not just let him ride the pine???

I think hypotethising about Blackmon stepping in is ridiculous. He hasn't even seen the field with real bullets yet. I don't know who's supposed to be next best, but I think you demote Carrol, promote someone else, and see what happens. If the new guy works out, fine - cut Carrol if you want. But if the next guy does a 'deer in the headlights' impression, thrown Carrol in while you work on plan C.

Agree 100%

I guess the move was made as a sign to the rest of the team. But why not just demote Carroll for a little while. I highly doubt they'll be able to find someone to step in and play nickel right away.

[No Mo Moss]

Yeah this latest secondary shake-up is going to make it harder for us to run the table on the remaining schedule. We still will though.

[MJZiggy]

Mike McCarthy hinted Carroll would be let go in the post game press conference.

"We'll make that decision tomorrow" or something like that.

When I heard it, I interpreted it to mean they were thinking about cutting him.

It's not really a big surprise to me based on what Mike said last night about Carroll.

To be fair, the reporter did ask flat out how Carroll keeps his job after a performance like that...

[MJZiggy]

Maybe they move KRob to corner? He did do a pretty good job of it last night. Yes, I'm kidding.

[vince]

Wow - I'm stunned by this. Put me in the 'bad idea' camp.
I think it was a knee jerk reaction, and am not convinced it was a good one. You can tell me that he goes from nickel back to off the team that quickly.

Just watched the video Ziggy posted - the guy looked like he was being geniune, and accepting responsibility. He doesn't seem to be an attitide problem any more, and I'm pretty sure we're on the hook for his entire salary, so why not just let him ride the pine???

I think hypotethising about Blackmon stepping in is ridiculous. He hasn't even seen the field with real bullets yet. I don't know who's supposed to be next best, but I think you demote Carrol, promote someone else, and see what happens. If the new guy works out, fine - cut Carrol if you want. But if the next guy does a 'deer in the headlights' impression, thrown Carrol in while you work on plan C.

Agree 100%

I guess the move was made as a sign to the rest of the team. But why not just demote Carroll for a little while. I highly doubt they'll be able to find someone to step in and play nickel right away.

I like this decision - a lot. Ahmad Carroll has had AMPLE opportunity and has failed at every turn. Accountability is vital to this team. What he said after the game is TOTALLY IRRELEVANT. Of course he's responsible for his failures. I'm glad to see that MM and TT agree with him.

"Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser." Vince Lombardi

[CyclonePackFan]

Thoughts:

What a message to the team. Poor performance will NOT be tolerated. Look for David Martin to be on the chopping block shortly.

Ahmad Carroll was never a good football player. He was an athlete who played football, and as such, never developed the way he should have. This cut was long overdue.

Isn't our secondary already one of the worst in the country? Honestly, it really can't get THAT much worse by losing our biggest liability.

There are lots of people who can run fast and jump high, which is ironically all the skill that Carroll had. There has to be SOMEBODY on the waiver wire we can find who can run fast and jump high, and maybe even has some football skill, too!

*note, I forgot about holding. That was Carroll's greatest skill.

[Patler]

What he said after the game is TOTALLY IRRELEVANT. Of course he's responsible for his failures. I'm glad to see that MM and TT agree with him.


Ya, its totally different for Driver to get up and accept responsibility for a bad performance, and for Carroll to do the same thing. Carroll has performed well, but never for a full game. He always seems to have that lapse in each game. Realizing it doesn't matter much if you can't change it.

I wonder if this was a joint decision, or TT's or MM's? Last year Sherman clearly implied that it was his desire to cut Thomas, and he called TT and asked him to do it. I wonder where it started with Carroll.

[red]

thank god, that was an absolutely pathetic game he had last night

my only problem is this should have happened a year ago

who cares who they get to replace him, he was total shit, if he ever had a good play, it was because the ref didn't call him that time for the holding he was doing

now they need to drop the secondary coach, NOW

[J-Rok]

Not to toot my horn too much, but I posted this about a minute after it was released.

Don't worry, I'll be here all year for breaking news and all that good stuff. You can applaud now. :lol:

[BF4MVP]

Not to toot my horn too much, but I posted this about a minute after it was released.

Don't worry, I'll be here all year for breaking news and all that good stuff. You can applaud now. :lol:
LOL nice work Rok

[SkinBasket]

Thoughts:

What a message to the team. Poor performance will NOT be tolerated. Look for David Martin to be on the chopping block shortly.

LOL. Then 80% of this team should be looking for jobs and 50% of the coaches.

I'm with Guiness. At least use the guy on ST. That would have been enough of a "message."

[Badgepack]

So whose practice squad do we rob?

[Bossman641]

Not to toot my horn too much, but I posted this about a minute after it was released.

Don't worry, I'll be here all year for breaking news and all that good stuff. You can applaud now. :lol:

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/images/2005/08/321875.jpg

[Joemailman]

I see this move as a message to everyone involved in the defensive secondary, players and coaches alike. The kind of performance that this unit has turned in so far will not be tolerated. If TT will get rid of a 23 year old 1st round draft pick, no one is safe.

[hurleyfan]

Wow, pretty shocking, but I have to say, not un expected.

This guy was never a good pick for the Packers.

- He was a junior when selected (why did everyone else know he was immature 'cepting Shermie?), played in a conference not known for great passing teams, (he is a good tackler), and less than 6 foot tall! Let's see, in the NFC North the Packers have the smallest receivers, and Moss was still within the division when AC was picked.

[superfan]

I too agree with Guiness and some of the others that don't like the move. Bench Carroll, put him on special teams coverage (they could certainly use his aggressive tackling skills on that unit), and promote him back to nickel if his replacement flops. And in the process, try to get something - anything - in return for him. I find it hard to believe another desperate team wouldn't part with a late pick for him.

I'm not saying he deserved to remain on the team, and I'm not going to miss him, but I don't see any better options at this point.

[red]

he's been benched. at some point he has to get back in the game, and when he does its nothing but one stupid thing after another with him.

everytime he was on the field he was a liability in one way or another

every single "good" play i can remember him having could have easily been called foe penalties

and after 3 years, he hadn't taken one step to improve it

and as for getting something. every team in the nfl knows he sucks, thats why they've been going after him since he got in the league. if you can't cut it on one of the bottom tier teams as a nickle back, then you probably don't have much of a career left. i doubt anybody would have given us anything for him

someone might pick him up and try him, but i highly doubt he'll stick there

[Tony Oday]

Im all about pistol whipping this punk out of town HOWEVER why didnt we ever try him at saftey? It seems like that is the skill set he has...well who cares atleast we will be down to two or three interference calls a game!

[CyclonePackFan]

Figured I'd post part of this Peter King article, which I find ironic....




PHILADELPHIA -- Three thoughts in the aftermath of the Eagles' 31-9 win over the Packers on Monday night:

1. The Packers absolutely, positively should not mail it in this season. If the secondary could cover without cheating (which may be impossible, thanks to Ahmad Carroll), this might be a competitive team. The line gave Brett Favre a decent amount of time -- he got shellacked a couple of times, but wasn't sacked -- and he's starting to develop some chemistry with Greg Jennings, who's a legitimate deep threat. I don't think Green Bay is a good team, but the Pack led this game 9-7 after 38 minutes. With St. Louis-bye-Miami-Arizona in the next four weeks, tell me it's a lost cause. You can't.

[Badgepack]

Im all about pistol whipping this punk out of town HOWEVER why didnt we ever try him at saftey? It seems like that is the skill set he has...well who cares atleast we will be down to two or three interference calls a game!

Agree with trying him a safety, we don't have much depth there either.

Anyway, let's get Dion Byrum from Tampa Bay's practice squad and see what he can do.

[vince]

What he said after the game is TOTALLY IRRELEVANT. Of course he's responsible for his failures. I'm glad to see that MM and TT agree with him.


Ya, its totally different for Driver to get up and accept responsibility for a bad performance, and for Carroll to do the same thing. Carroll has performed well, but never for a full game. He always seems to have that lapse in each game. Realizing it doesn't matter much if you can't change it.

I wonder if this was a joint decision, or TT's or MM's? Last year Sherman clearly implied that it was his desire to cut Thomas, and he called TT and asked him to do it. I wonder where it started with Carroll.

It's no different for ANYONE to accept responsibility for their failure. It doesn't change the fact that they failed. That's the bottom line. I want guys that can consistently cover on this team, no matter how much - or little - they accept responsibility when they fail.

[vince]

he's been benched. at some point he has to get back in the game, and when he does its nothing but one stupid thing after another with him.

everytime he was on the field he was a liability in one way or another

every single "good" play i can remember him having could have easily been called foe penalties

and after 3 years, he hadn't taken one step to improve it

and as for getting something. every team in the nfl knows he sucks, thats why they've been going after him since he got in the league. if you can't cut it on one of the bottom tier teams as a nickle back, then you probably don't have much of a career left. i doubt anybody would have given us anything for him

someone might pick him up and try him, but i highly doubt he'll stick there
Dead on, red. The fact that he is no longer occupying a valuable roster spot is positive enough.

[BF4MVP]

Figured I'd post part of this Peter King article, which I find ironic....




PHILADELPHIA -- Three thoughts in the aftermath of the Eagles' 31-9 win over the Packers on Monday night:

1. The Packers absolutely, positively should not mail it in this season. If the secondary could cover without cheating (which may be impossible, thanks to Ahmad Carroll), this might be a competitive team. The line gave Brett Favre a decent amount of time -- he got shellacked a couple of times, but wasn't sacked -- and he's starting to develop some chemistry with Greg Jennings, who's a legitimate deep threat. I don't think Green Bay is a good team, but the Pack led this game 9-7 after 38 minutes. With St. Louis-bye-Miami-Arizona in the next four weeks, tell me it's a lost cause. You can't.

I like that little blurb. I agree with it.

[ND72]

i'm not a huge Carroll fan...BUT. I saw some potential in him, and yeah, he's struggling this year, but you know what, I think Al Harris is doing worse than he is. I think there could have been better things to do than to just simply cut a 23 year old with blazing speed. I donno...i'm not a huge fan of what TT did today. we're basically cutting our nickle back, for????what? now who is the nickle back? Carroll is a pretty solid tackler, of which i think he is our best tackling Corner we have.

That being said, the day we drafted him, I completely expected us to take Chris Gamble....DAMNIT.

[The Shadow]

Building a champion requires chopping off dead wood - even 1st round dead wood.
Carroll never showed (me, at least) that he was progressing.
He had time; he failed.
Goodbye.

[vince]

i'm not a huge Carroll fan...BUT. I saw some potential in him, and yeah, he's struggling this year, but you know what, I think Al Harris is doing worse than he is. I think there could have been better things to do than to just simply cut a 23 year old with blazing speed. I donno...i'm not a huge fan of what TT did today. we're basically cutting our nickle back, for????what? now who is the nickle back? Carroll is a pretty solid tackler, of which i think he is our best tackling Corner we have.

That being said, the day we drafted him, I completely expected us to take Chris Gamble....DAMNIT.
It's amazing to me how so many people can watch an individual get toasted time and time and time and time and time and time again - and yet think that individual will all of a sudden figure out how to shut people down. You can't hide Ahmad Carroll. He can be sitting on the bench and he'll get burned for six.

At least T Buck's problem lied in being such a small corner in an era of unprecedented WR size in our division, plus we had a string of Cowboys showdowns back then where Alvin Harper and the Coke Machine went over the top of him with regularity. Guys like Herman Moore and Chris Carter were too big for T-Buck.

Carroll can't hang his head on getting beat by bigger receivers. He gets beat by everyone that he plays against.

[Patler]

It's no different for ANYONE to accept responsibility for their failure. It doesn't change the fact that they failed. That's the bottom line. I want guys that can consistently cover on this team, no matter how much - or little - they accept responsibility when they fail.

Well, now I have to disagree with you. Everyone fails at some point. No one is perfect in every situation every time. Driver had a bad night. It happens. He can accept responsibility and move on. He has already had lights-out performances this season and will again.

Carroll knew what was wrong, but continued to do the same things. If you can't correct it you have to leave.

[pack4to84]

badgepack wrote

So whose practice squad do we rob?

Bears they are bound to have talent on there's

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I don't understand two things:

Number 1: Why not make him a bench or special teams player. His contact is very cheap and he's better than any 4th corner we have

Number 2: Why not trade him? even if it's for a 6th or 7th.

Overall I don't like this move.

[vince]

It's no different for ANYONE to accept responsibility for their failure. It doesn't change the fact that they failed. That's the bottom line. I want guys that can consistently cover on this team, no matter how much - or little - they accept responsibility when they fail.

Well, now I have to disagree with you. Everyone fails at some point. No one is perfect in every situation every time. Driver had a bad night. It happens. He can accept responsibility and move on. He has already had lights-out performances this season and will again.

Carroll knew what was wrong, but continued to do the same things. If you can't correct it you have to leave.
Not sure if we really disagree, Patler. I'm not advocating for cutting Driver. I'm just saying that it's fine and dandy that Caroll accepted responsibility, but some people appear to be using the fact that he's sorry and accepts responsibility as an argument for keeping him on the team. The fact that he accpepts responsibility is irrelevant to the decision that's been made.

[Joemailman]

i'm not a huge Carroll fan...BUT. I saw some potential in him, and yeah, he's struggling this year, but you know what, I think Al Harris is doing worse than he is. I think there could have been better things to do than to just simply cut a 23 year old with blazing speed. I donno...i'm not a huge fan of what TT did today. we're basically cutting our nickle back, for????what? now who is the nickle back? Carroll is a pretty solid tackler, of which i think he is our best tackling Corner we have.

That being said, the day we drafted him, I completely expected us to take Chris Gamble....DAMNIT.

When the best think that can be said about a cornerback is that he is a good tackler, that in itself suggests a problem. However, I can't help having a nagging feeling that Schottzy is just as much of a problem. The three holdovers from last years secondary, (Harris, Collins, and Carroll) are all playing at a lower level this season. I can't help believing that the change in coaching has a lot to do with that.

[Rastak]

It's no different for ANYONE to accept responsibility for their failure. It doesn't change the fact that they failed. That's the bottom line. I want guys that can consistently cover on this team, no matter how much - or little - they accept responsibility when they fail.

Well, now I have to disagree with you. Everyone fails at some point. No one is perfect in every situation every time. Driver had a bad night. It happens. He can accept responsibility and move on. He has already had lights-out performances this season and will again.

Carroll knew what was wrong, but continued to do the same things. If you can't correct it you have to leave.


But can't you figure that out during camp and right before the final cuts?

My thoughts on Carroll are this.....he still has potential but I'll be surprised if he ever realizes it in this league.

[vince]

I don't understand to things:

Number 1: Why not make him a bench or special teams player. His contact is very cheap and he's better than any 4th corner we have

Number 2: Why not trade him? even if it's for a 6th or 7th.

Overall I don't like this move.
1. As long as Carroll is occupying a roster spot, there's another player that we could have on the team that can be something other than a player that consistently gives up large chunks of yardage and a lot of points for the opposition.

2. Trading him is not worth the only kind of player that anyone would give up for him. A player that probably would also need to be cut. Cut your losses and go out and find a practice squad guy from another team that has shown the ability to guard someone without hanging on to their jersy for 30 yards.

There's another game to get ready for. Holding him on the roster even for the time it would take to find someone stupid enough to make a trade for him (which could be awhile) means that the team is that much farther behind getting ready for St. Louis.

[MacCool606]

I can just imagine the conversation this morning:
MM: Dammit Kurt - get your ass in here
Kurt: coming sir
MM: What the Hell is going on with your unit - you are a disgrace to this team - you don't remind me of Packer People at all!
Kurt: Well - it wasn't my fault Mike, sir, it was, it was, it was Ahmad's fault - yeah that's it - it was Ahmad! We should cut him.
Well OK Kurt - if you say so - but you better fix it by next game.

I think Kurt should do the only honorable thing and resign.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I don't understand to things:

Number 1: Why not make him a bench or special teams player. His contact is very cheap and he's better than any 4th corner we have

Number 2: Why not trade him? even if it's for a 6th or 7th.

Overall I don't like this move.
1. As long as Carroll is occupying a roster spot, there's another player that we could have on the team that can be something other than a player that consistently gives up large chunks of yardage and a lot of points for the opposition.

2. Trading him is not worth the only kind of player that anyone would give up for him. A player that probably would also need to be cut. Cut your losses and go out and find a practice squad guy from another team that has shown the ability to guard someone without hanging on to their jersy for 30 yards.

There's another game to get ready for. Holding him on the roster even for the time it would take to find someone stupid enough to make a trade for him (which could be awhile) means that the team is that much farther behind getting ready for St. Louis.

I understand that you can't get a good player for him, but why not trade for a late pick at least?

[BallHawk]

I can't remember in the draft Carroll was drafted, was he the popular pick, or was it Chirs Gamble. What was the reaction when Carroll was drafted.

[Lurker64]

I understand that you can't get a good player for him, but why not trade for a late pick at least?

Perhaps Ted realizes he doesn't need help finding more late round draft picks? Or possibly he realizes that with more draft picks, he would have to cut a good portion of his draft class.

[vince]

I don't understand to things:

Number 1: Why not make him a bench or special teams player. His contact is very cheap and he's better than any 4th corner we have

Number 2: Why not trade him? even if it's for a 6th or 7th.

Overall I don't like this move.
1. As long as Carroll is occupying a roster spot, there's another player that we could have on the team that can be something other than a player that consistently gives up large chunks of yardage and a lot of points for the opposition.

2. Trading him is not worth the only kind of player that anyone would give up for him. A player that probably would also need to be cut. Cut your losses and go out and find a practice squad guy from another team that has shown the ability to guard someone without hanging on to their jersy for 30 yards.

There's another game to get ready for. Holding him on the roster even for the time it would take to find someone stupid enough to make a trade for him (which could be awhile) means that the team is that much farther behind getting ready for St. Louis.

I understand that you can't get a good player for him, but why not trade for a late pick at least?
If you're a GM for an NFL franchise, which would you rather have?

1. a player who's proven to be a major liability as a CB, or...
2. a sixth round draft pick to use on someone who could possibly turn into a significant contributor to your SUCCESS?

Yeah, I thought you'd take #2... So would the real GM's in the league.

[pittstang5]

Sign me up on the shocker wagon...I'm really surprised that he was just released and TT didn't get anything for him.....but....then again, maybe no one wanted to give anything for him. I see him going to Cleveland - don't they need CB help.

I have an idea about who to replace him. Wasn't TT and the Pack looking at Ahmad Plummer around the time they signed Woodson. Didn't TT say that if they have some injuries or something else, Plummer might be a possibility. Is he still available? Maybe this is TTs back up plan. I don't know much about Plummer, but maybe he can help.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

DD and Mark T. are both 7th rounders and are two of the best players on are team.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Sign me up on the shocker wagon...I'm really surprised that he was just released and TT didn't get anything for him.....but....then again, maybe no one wanted to give anything for him. I see him going to Cleveland - don't they need CB help.

I have an idea about who to replace him. Wasn't TT and the Pack looking at Ahmad Plummer around the time they signed Woodson. Didn't TT say that if that if they have some injuries or something else, Plummer might be a possibility. Is he still available? Maybe this is TTs back up plan.

What a stupid back up plan it would be.......

[Fritz]

Wow. I'm surprised. I thought the guy played pretty well for the first half. He bites on the hard moves, which is why he can play tight on short routes but also why he gets burned deep. I also thought that on a couple of the long routes the defensive line gave McNabb about a year to throw the ball.

I am with Tony in that I wonder if a guy like Carroll could have played safety. He could have sat back and read the play, and he sure could tackle.

I don't think, though, that this is a bold move. It was, after all, Shermy's pick. Bold is cutting your own first round draft choice only two and a half years after it happens.

Shermy's entire first day draft class of 2004 is now gone. And people wonder why the Packers are floundering. Sherman drafted one pro bowler, Javon Walker, one good defensive end, Aaron Kampman, one pretty good middle linebacker, Nick Barnett, one average center, Scott Wells, traded for a solid corner, Al Harris, and found a couple of spare parts. That's five starters in three drafts. Not so good.

[wist43]

I just heard...

Very suprised... I figured they'd just keep on with the "we'll get it fixed" routine.

That defense is a God-awful mess... Maybe there's hope they'll can Schottenheimer soon???

[oregonpackfan]

The Carroll case is another example of why Pro GM's should be very hesitant to sign someone who declares early while still enrolled in college.

Like many early declarees, Carroll was not ready for the Pro game athletically as well as emotionally. While a few college juniors like Reggie Bush are ready for the pro level, the majority of them are not ready and struggle mightily at the pro level.

Perhaps some team will take a chance on team and help him resurrect his career. It seems likely that his career is over. He simply should have stayed in college another year.

OPF

[CyclonePackFan]

I can't remember in the draft Carroll was drafted, was he the popular pick, or was it Chirs Gamble. What was the reaction when Carroll was drafted.

Don't know about the consensus, but I was SCREAMING at my TV for Gamble.

Oh yeah, now I remember, the consensus was "Who?"

[Zool]

I see him going to the Pats actually. They are always short on DB's and if anyone can coach that moron its Bellichek.

[mission]

I see him going to the Pats actually. They are always short on DB's and if anyone can coach that moron its Bellichek.

haha my buddy was saying EXACTLY this as i was reading your post... we'll see, but i wouldnt put it past the texans to bring him in.

[Tony Oday]

I see him going to the Pats actually. They are always short on DB's and if anyone can coach that moron its Bellichek.

lol I can imagine that conversation:

AC: yeah Id like to play for you!

BB: you have to stop holding people.

AC: I can do that!

BB: THEN WHY THE HELL ARE YOU HOLDING ON TO MY SWEATSHIRT!

AC: Ah man thats my fault I take full responsibility for that.

BB: No prob, are you a good teamate?

AC: Hell yeah!

Troy Bown: Coach can you throw me the athletic tape?

AC: *swats down the athletic tape in mid air* OH HELL YEAH I JUST OWNED
THAT! DID YOU SEE THAT PLAY!!! HOLY CRAP I AM THE WORLDS GREATEST!!!

BB: THEN WHY ARE YOU HOLDING ON TO MY SWEAT SHIRTAGAIN!

AC: Oh man I just have a rep its hard to get away from that I didnt even touch you! BAD call BAD call!

BB: I dont think this is going to work out.

[RashanGary]

I don't think McCarthy gave the "we're expected to lose" speach before the game.

I'm pretty sure those guys are responsible for winning or they will be replaced ASAP.

[K-town]

Tony Oday: CLASSIC!
BOMNF

[HarveyWallbangers]

Madtown is eerily quiet about his dog, Carroll, getting cut.

[retailguy]

Madtown is eerily quiet about his dog, Carroll, getting cut.

Haven't seen him on yet today, I'm sure he'll weigh in when he gets here.

[woodbuck27]

http://packers.com/news/releases/2006/10/03/1/

I'm speechless. :shock: :shock:

I'm guessing then MJ that you didn't see the way he played last night. No you simply couldn't have seen the game.

Ahmad Carroll played terrible and he must have been "under the gun" and well he was released.

He' ll likely land in Houston, as it's a natural fit...

before you can say Texans 1000 times. :mrgreen:

I'll be surprised if that's not the case.

What a huge disappointment he was last night.

[SkinBasket]

Dead on, red. The fact that he is no longer occupying a valuable roster spot is positive enough.

And what, exactly, is so valuable about a Packer's roster spot these days? Firing an easy scapegoat is the coward's route. Owning up to the fact that this defensive unit is perhaps the most poorly coached in the league would be a start.

Carroll had more value on ST than at least 10 guys eating up roster spots. Making a statement is one thing. Throwing away a commodity you could use is another. This team has no direction and no effen clue wha they're doing to stop the other team. As I said in another post, it's simply 11 guys acting independantly out there on defense right now. Say hello to a 13 loss season.

Slow-wit is starting to look like an fricken genius right now compared to what we got.

[woodbuck27]

I think this is a "cart-before-the-horse" deal. I would really be happy if Schotts was dumped - I wouldn't care if someone else picked him up. I'll have to go put a post in the Fire Schottenheimer thread!

Don't be so sure of that.

That move would have been too obvious.Things like that .."the obvious" don't seem to go down in Green Bay.

Setting that aside it was ugly to watch Carroll not perform last night.

I hope he's not " just the scapegoat ". There is too much wrong with OUR Secondary and I blame Coaching as well as the player In this case of Carroll maybe it was time but that can't be "just it'.

NFL football in Green Bay is a long ways from the way it's handled in hockey... the NHL

If this was hockey (in the NHL) there would be... whole scale changes from GM on down. NOONE WOULD BE SAFE !!

Why should anyone be safe ? When we start 1-3 in 2006 and since OUR GM Ted Thompson... we are a whooping 5-15 now.

That SUCKS !!! :mad:

That's ugly Ted Thompson. To be (not to be) under YOU... 5-15 or a LOSING percentage of 0.250... how much worse do YOU want it Ted ?

Fire OUR Secondary's Coach tonight! Get rid of himand be accountable for a change.

Your on a short rope Ted !! Your days in Green Bay will soon be over unless "the Green Bay Packers have ** this plan Ted.

** A plan to not be embarassed...maybe even WIN Football games.

Winning Ted!! A new concept for YOU in Green Bay.

BE ACCOUNTABLE and FIRE OUR... not a Secondary Coach ...FIRE HIM !!Cutting the chaff and leaving some good if it exists for continuity.

Even Ted Thompson can't FIRE... ALL the players.

The Secondary's Coach Schottenheimer has to go out with the wash water.

Come see - come saw.

GO PACK GO ! The Rams are OURS.

[The Leaper]

I hate this move.

Don't give me any BS about "sending a message" when Kurt "Worthless Turd" Schottenheimer is still employed by the team. What kind of message does THAT send to the players...when some have come out and openly advocated the promotion of Washington?

Carroll showed improvement last year under a REAL coaching staff. No, he still wasn't starting caliber...but he showed some ability in coverage. I don't think it is coincidence that Harris, Collins, and Carroll have all regressed this season.

The Worthless Turd should be the one in the unemployment line today. Carroll may very well have belonged there too at some point...but I think the wrong person was terminated today.

[Packers4Ever]

Holy crap is right. I guess I can't say I didn't see it coming but man...I'm still shocked!

.................................................. ...................

I figured it was just a matter of time, I think many did
and the time was right.

[woodbuck27]

Dead on, red. The fact that he is no longer occupying a valuable roster spot is positive enough.

And what, exactly, is so valuable about a Packer's roster spot these days? Firing an easy scapegoat is the coward's route. Owning up to the fact that this defensive unit is perhaps the most poorly coached in the league would be a start.

Carroll had more value on ST than at least 10 guys eating up roster spots. Making a statement is one thing. Throwing away a commodity you could use is another. This team has no direction and no effen clue wha they're doing to stop the other team. As I said in another post, it's simply 11 guys acting independantly out there on defense right now. Say hello to a 13 loss season.

Slow-wit is starting to look like an fricken genius right now compared to what we got.

YES !

It's time for a gut check ...for something REAL SkinBasket.

The Chemistry on the Green Bay Packers last night... wasn't .

NO CHEMISTRY.

Watching that game I couldn't believe my eyes. I was literally "in shock".

The only plus was the DL that played decently. We got some life out of OUR TE"s as well; and the OL didn't look really all that bad... because I felt that (especially on the long pass) Brett Favre was impatient.

Favre needed to wait a little longer (and he had the time ) before putting air under tha ball. He was too juiced up after we fell behind.

Favre looks ALL alone on the sidelines... and that wasn't as I understood it was this season in first three games.

Coach McCarthy looked alone, and he looked like he was "in some morph zone'.

McCarthy looked frozen.

[PTPaQ]

Wow, what a moronic move.

Ahmad is struggling but we dont have the luxory of cutting him like this.

If anything, demote him to the dimeback, give Blackmon or Bush a shot, he would be a great special teamer, punt coverage, kick off coverage.

Now we have NO nickel, NO depth.

Just stupid.

[Packers4Ever]

I feel like a fool for saying this (just warning you in advance) - but I'm afraid he'll be picked up right away - and become a decent CB for someone else. I was kinda hoping that we would stash him someplace until we had a decent secondary coach.

Carroll will be picked up immediately. He is a solid player and he is not afraid of contact.

We're all gunshy, leftover from JWalk. Why couldn't
someone do something with him here, in 2 full years?
He did the same bad stunts over and over.

[RashanGary]

I agree w/ the ST thing. He might have been one of our top 3 ST players. He made a statement this year that his goal was to get 6 ints and play dominate ST's.

I think it sends a good message though. I don't then anyone is sitting around TT's lockerroom saying "We're expected to lose so don't sweat it" I don't think anyone will be getting the "We're expected to lose" speach any time soon either

[digitaldean]

Yes, maybe keeping Carroll on ST would have been a thought.

But, I say, good riddance to another Mike Charmin wasted pick.

Carroll had grill marks on his butt last night he got burned so bad.

Has he made plays? Sure. But his negatives far outweigh the positives. The guy could wear boxing gloves and still find a way to rip off a WR's jersey so the guy doesn't burn him. Carroll never should have made the final roster. Horton should have been kept instead.

As others have mentioned, Blackmon has to be ready and Bush will be the nickel.

WE ARE 31ST AGAINST THE PASS! We are going nowhere in this season anyway. We need to shake something up for crying out loud!

If things don't change, they should ditch Schottenheimer AND his STUPID bracelets.

[b bulldog]

How long till he gets signed in Houston?

[woodbuck27]

I agree w/ the ST thing. He might have been one of our top 3 ST players. He made a statement this year that his goal was to get 6 ints and play dominate ST's.

I think it sends a good message though. I don't then anyone is sitting around TT's lockerroom saying "We're expected to lose so don't sweat it" I don't think anyone will be getting the "We're expected to lose" speach any time soon either

OUR performance last night on ST's punt coverage wasn't good at all.

How do you teach tacking " the Leroy Butler " way?

I'm sick of seeing Packers reaching for a tackle and thinking that arm tackles are a good thing.

ALL that we gained in 2005 with Coach Jim Bates..... is gone !!!

Time for some major changes, and I don't mean always using players "as the scapegoat ".

If I was on the Packers Board I would certainly be holding Ted Thompson accountable for 5 - 15.

Let's get rid of this wanna be GM and get the show back on the road.

I'm sick at where he's taken my Team.

I'm a member of the Committee to...

FIRE TED THOMPSON ASAP.

REASON and no it's not impatience, so please don't go there,

as a re-direct. I'm tired of this man.

Ted Thompson ... plain n' simple... SUCKS as OUR GM

[digitaldean]

Thoughts:

What a message to the team. Poor performance will NOT be tolerated. Look for David Martin to be on the chopping block shortly.



I'd second that one also. "Butterfingers" Bubba hasn't been any great shakes either. Unfortunately, we can't cut 2/3 of our TE's.

Carroll's dismissal should only be the first step. Schottenheimer AND Bob "Call Your Own Plays" Sanders better be held accountable also if things don't improve. (I swear Schottenheimer has photos of somebody... how does this guy keep getting coaching gigs?)

I know it's only 4 games, but McCarthy's and maybe even TT's future are going to ride on how they handle this. McCarthy and TT may not make it through year 2 if they let this type of dysfunctional secondary continue their wretched play.

[digitaldean]

Woody, I think the thing that frustrates me the most about TT is that he is always trying to find that "diamond in the rough". Something to validate that he is a bona fide GM.

The constant trading down in the mid to late rounds has not paid off. Plus if MM's tenure doesn't show even modest improvement at season's end, I will join your "Fire TT" chorus.

Firing the GM in the middle of the season will solve nothing. We can't make any big acquistions talentwise, you sure can't can the whole coaching staff.

My solution for now...
Fire Schottenheimer AND Sanders if the secondary shows no improvement by mid-season. By then we will have played Arizona and Miami. If we can't play modestly well vs. them, then they should be done.

From the time Holmy left to today...we have NEVER addressed the technique of tackling. Even when Sharper was here at the beginning of his career it stunk. Remember the razzing the Packers took after Sharper was nearly dragged 50 yds. by a Broncos WR because he didn't know how to tackle? Too many players go for the SportsCenter highlight and big hit instead of the "boring" sure tackle.

The same holds true today for some of our defensive players (not all).

[HarveyWallbangers]

What will be funny is that Carroll will be signed by some other team, and many of that team's fans will be excited about getting a former high draft pick. A lot of us were shocked Joey Thomas got cut last year. Some of us thought he may move on and do well for another team. I think he's out of the league now.

[woodbuck27]

Woody, I think the thing that frustrates me the most about TT is that he is always trying to find that "diamond in the rough". Something to validate that he is a bona fide GM.

The constant trading down in the mid to late rounds has not paid off. Plus if MM's tenure doesn't show even modest improvement at season's end, I will join your "Fire TT" chorus.

Firing the GM in the middle of the season will solve nothing. We can't make any big acquistions talentwise, you sure can't can the whole coaching staff.

My solution for now...
Fire Schottenheimer AND Sanders if the secondary shows no improvement by mid-season. By then we will have played Arizona and Miami. If we can't play modestly well vs. them, then they should be done.

From the time Holmy left to today...we have NEVER addressed the technique of tackling. Even when Sharper was here at the beginning of his career it stunk. Remember the razzing the Packers took after Sharper was nearly dragged 50 yds. by a Broncos WR because he didn't know how to tackle? Too many players go for the SportsCenter highlight and big hit instead of the "boring" sure tackle.

The same holds true today for some of our defensive players (not all).

I'll explain something to you digitaldean.

Of course I'm Canadian. So being that... I cut my teeth watching hockey..The NHL Original SIX... till today.

In the NHL in alot of the Franchises, it's not the players that are blamed for bad play and certainly not after it gets as bad as we see on OUR Packers.

ONLY 5 Wins and 15 Loss's is a total embarasment, a disgrace to me as a Packer fan, especially with Brett Favre as OUR QB.

It's a nightmare.

What I saw last night made me nearly ill... except for "the shock" effect of what went down in that game. The Eagle players so happy....

and OUR Packers nowhere.

I just HATE that. I want that to change PRONTO !

I don't believe in Ted Thompson... as he's such a flake.

It's ALL in my guts.

Five decades a sports fan, and three and a half decades an athlete that didn't understand the meaning of the word LOSING.....except with "the Packers ....1970... till Ron Wolf - Mike Holmgren - Brett Favre...

I don't want young Packer fans to have to endure that.

Ted Thompson does some things well, but overall he is one weird fella as I see him. It's in my guts that he's bad for the Packers.

I'm telling YOU and every member of PACKERRATS... that we will ALL live to really regret Ted Thompson as OUR wanna be GM. Count on that.

I'm out there early with "let's dump him already".... because I feel that need so strongly.

I go with the float on him... as alot of people here seem to believe in him but we are 5-15 since Ted Thompson..HELLO !!

How can he LOVE OUR Team and have us at 5-15? How can he be deemed a good GM and have OUR team at 5-15? He DAM near made it impossible for Brett Favre to return.

Has Ted Thompson given Brett Favre any more weapons? Well... YES his draft picks. . .bully for Ted Thompson.

His choice of a Coach cost us Jim Bates, and we can talk all around it... but now we wait 4 more games to weigh in on Defensive CO-Ordinator Sanders and Secondary Coach Schottenheimer...Good Grief.

NO !

Same players back that were deemed acceptable to GM Ted Thompason and he adds his choices in Woodson, Pickett and Manuel... that was supposed to make us better on paper.

In reality we are terrible on "D"..OUR Secondary is putrid.

WE ARE... WEAK WEAK WEAK ...OVERALL on "D"!!! Behind the LBers we see nothing.

Charles Woodson is going down to an injury just as soon as his false ego dictates that's best.

Count on it !!!

Al Harris is definitely showing the effects of missing "the OTA's" as he is clearly left out of the play " always scrambling ", and holding as bad as Ahmad Carroll has to do for some stupid reason.Ahmad Carroll had exceptional talent so what went wrong?

There would be less grab ass if you accidently wound up in a Gay bar. Not just with Ahmad Carroll. Al Harris isn't the player he was for the first 12 games last season.

I blame Ted Thompson as he arranged this mess we now see as "the Green Bay Packers".

Alot of his player moves are just not logical.

'm still pissed that Ted Thompson shoved Samkon out, and I predict that Samkon Gado will " in fact "do well in Houston.

Morency ran for 99 yards...Didn't impress me as he's not strong like Gado.

He looked like Sugar Ray Leonard on "the Eagles" last goaline stand. All they had to do was put up a hand. :mrgreen:

I'm hard on Ted Thompson for good reason.

He's not my MOSES.

It's my guts. They don't betray me overall. Sorry for me being me all Ted Thompson lover's. Open your eyes please.

It doesn't compute what he's doing to us as he only makes us look more embarassing.

Ted Thompson's a disaster. That's "the TRUTH".

[OS PA]

Wouldn't that be funny if the Eagles picked him up this week considering they're out 2 CB's?

[woodbuck27]

What will be funny is that Carroll will be signed by some other team, and many of that team's fans will be excited about getting a former high draft pick. A lot of us were shocked Joey Thomas got cut last year. Some of us thought he may move on and do well for another team. I think he's out of the league now.

Was Joey Thomas in New Orleans for their TC or was it Houston Harvey?

He was "in fact" sent packing.

He had better try the CFL. I should check that. :idea:

I'm so into Packerrats that i don't pat alot of attention this season to the CFL overall. The Montreal Allouettes are doing OK and that's ALL my bag along with "the Greenfield Packers". The minor Leagur Program here where I live is outstanding.

[Partial]

I see him going to the Pats actually. They are always short on DB's and if anyone can coach that moron its Bellichek.

The moment I saw this thread, I left a message on my buddies facebook saying He'll be a pat by tonight. Low and behold i'm not the only one!

[Partial]

I see him going to the Pats actually. They are always short on DB's and if anyone can coach that moron its Bellichek.

lol I can imagine that conversation:

AC: yeah Id like to play for you!

BB: you have to stop holding people.

AC: I can do that!

BB: THEN WHY THE HELL ARE YOU HOLDING ON TO MY SWEATSHIRT!

AC: Ah man thats my fault I take full responsibility for that.

BB: No prob, are you a good teamate?

AC: Hell yeah!

Troy Bown: Coach can you throw me the athletic tape?

AC: *swats down the athletic tape in mid air* OH HELL YEAH I JUST OWNED
THAT! DID YOU SEE THAT PLAY!!! HOLY CRAP I AM THE WORLDS GREATEST!!!

BB: THEN WHY ARE YOU HOLDING ON TO MY SWEAT SHIRTAGAIN!

AC: Oh man I just have a rep its hard to get away from that I didnt even touch you! BAD call BAD call!

BB: I dont think this is going to work out.

ROFLLLLLLLLOL wtf?!? I laughed so hard at this, its late for me...

[digitaldean]

Woody,

I hear ya. I suffered through the crappy 70's AND 80's and early 90's till Bob Harlan took over and shook things up.

There is no way in HELL I want to go back to that sort of losing, NO WAY!

TT will not be fired during the middle of the season, like it or not.

We could have had a ton of weapons for Brett. Look at the duds we got stuck with (Fergy, Bubba Franks, David Martin -the perpetual project, etc.) Shermy and TT have blown away picks. We had Terry Glenn then we let him go, now look how he's doing in Dallas! Favre has had 6-7 years of very little substantial weapons. Walker was a weapon in 2004, but his me-first attitude helped get him out of town.

Look, the personnel moves are dubious at best. Carroll's heave-ho is a step in the right direction. Schotty should be next.

If this season goes out to be a 4-12 train wreck again, there will be more than those 2 gone. But Jones / Harlan may not do anything with TT or MM unless there is enough public clamour to get rid of them.

I think MM has been OK, but the jury is still out. The things holding him back are the def. coordinator and DB coach choices.

I have seen CONSECUTIVE DECADES of crappy Packer football throughout my youth and young adulthood. Accepting mediocrity won't cut it with me either. I will be on the bandwagon for TT's ouster at the end of the season if it keeps going down. Doing it right now solves nothing. The personnel moves he can make now only will affect this season. No blockbuster trades will happen before the deadline anyway.

[Harlan Huckleby]

If this season goes out to be a 4-12 train wreck again, there will be more than those 2 gone.

I really don't understand this thinking. It strikes me as sacrificing 10 goats if a plague of locusts comes, maybe it will appease the gods and the locusts won't come next year.

Didn't Jimmy Johnson endure a 1-15 rebuilding season? Did he fire his coaches?

I don't know, maybe somebody needs to be fired. But the record is so dependent on the personnel.

[MateoInMex]

Halle-fuggin'-luyah

[GBRulz]

I'm a little late in signing on tonight. I think everything has been said that I was going to say already!

Bold move and I think it's more of a message than anything else.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Was Joey Thomas in New Orleans for their TC or was it Houston Harvey?

Yes, he was in New Orleans, but got cut.

[woodbuck27]

Woody,

I hear ya. I suffered through the crappy 70's AND 80's and early 90's till Bob Harlan took over and shook things up.

There is no way in HELL I want to go back to that sort of losing, NO WAY!

TT will not be fired during the middle of the season, like it or not.

We could have had a ton of weapons for Brett. Look at the duds we got stuck with (Fergy, Bubba Franks, David Martin -the perpetual project, etc.) Shermy and TT have blown away picks. We had Terry Glenn then we let him go, now look how he's doing in Dallas! Favre has had 6-7 years of very little substantial weapons. Walker was a weapon in 2004, but his me-first attitude helped get him out of town.

Look, the personnel moves are dubious at best. Carroll's heave-ho is a step in the right direction. Schotty should be next.

If this season goes out to be a 4-12 train wreck again, there will be more than those 2 gone. But Jones / Harlan may not do anything with TT or MM unless there is enough public clamour to get rid of them.

I think MM has been OK, but the jury is still out. The things holding him back are the def. coordinator and DB coach choices.

I have seen CONSECUTIVE DECADES of crappy Packer football throughout my youth and young adulthood. Accepting mediocrity won't cut it with me either. I will be on the bandwagon for TT's ouster at the end of the season if it keeps going down. Doing it right now solves nothing. The personnel moves he can make now only will affect this season. No blockbuster trades will happen before the deadline anyway.

Thanks for the slap on the back digitaldean. I hear you.

I don't want to come off as some sort of devient freak tyrant but Ted Thompson..

Uuuurrrggghhhh !!

He piss's me off. Somewhat...:mad:

I'll allow sleep to heal me... for awhile (till the next time...haha

GO PACK GO !

Rams in Lambeau...tackle em'... down em' ! !

[Kiwon]

I'm a little late in signing on tonight. I think everything has been said that I was going to say already!

Bold move and I think it's more of a message than anything else.

Me three. I'm late to the party as well....

I'm torn between demoting the guy and cutting him. They had the option to deactivate him for some games if they wanted to send a message and then cut him if someone else steps up his play.

Cutting him straight out means that you are throwing a newbie straight into the fire. That's as much an invitation to an opposing qb as keeping Carroll on the field.

At this point it looks like the 2006 Packers are going to be challenging the 2004 Packers for the most points and passing yards allowed in a season.

[MadtownPacker]

Well it's fully sunk in and all I can say is what a classless move by Ted Thompson. Carroll played hard and always showed pride in being a Packer. People hated his boasting and bragging and never gave him slack for being so young. Demoting him would have made sense but just kicking him to the curb is BS!

So he has a bad game and gets cut while mega-money raider trash Woodson aint exactly lighting it up and Harris is racking up penalties like Predator collects skulls????

How is it that Bates had him looking good last season but now that the same coach from 2004 (remember them getting smoked for long PASS PLAYS) is back, Carroll and the whole secondary look like crap!!!!!!

Bad move, TT better find a way to clean this up soon or the Rams will be dropping again 30+ next week.

[woodbuck27]

Well it's fully sunk in and all I can say is what a classless move by Ted Thompson. Carroll played hard and always showed pride in being a Packer. People hated his boasting and bragging and never gave him slack for being so young. Demoting him would have made sense but just kicking him to the curb is BS!

So he has a bad game and gets cut while mega-money raider trash Woodson aint exactly lighting it up and Harris is racking up penalties like Predator collects skulls????

How is it that Bates had him looking good last season but now that the same coach from 2004 (remember them getting smoked for long PASS PLAYS) is back, Carroll and the whole secondary look like crap!!!!!!

Bad move, TT better find a way to clean this up soon or the Rams will be dropping again 30+ next week.

I have full confidence in Ted Thompson...I have full confidence in Ted Thompson... I have full con... mmmm CON !

[Rastak]

What will be funny is that Carroll will be signed by some other team, and many of that team's fans will be excited about getting a former high draft pick. A lot of us were shocked Joey Thomas got cut last year. Some of us thought he may move on and do well for another team. I think he's out of the league now.


This is a bigger shock than Thomas, and Carroll is a much better player than Thomas. But after what I've seen, it wouldn't surprise me if Carroll washed out of the league in two or so years.

[Oscar]

I feel like coach Mac has made his example by addressing what he feels is our week link in the secondary. He cut A.C.. Now, I fully expect to hear that Schottenshooter has handed in his resignation and will be steping down as our secondary coach. I can't see big Mac all out firing him (though I wouldn't mind) BUt I think he needs to set the same example and cut ties with the week link on the coaching staff..IMHO that is.. :smile:

[cpk1994]

EDIT: Sorry double post.

[cpk1994]

I don't understand to things:

Number 1: Why not make him a bench or special teams player. His contact is very cheap and he's better than any 4th corner we have

Number 2: Why not trade him? even if it's for a 6th or 7th.

Overall I don't like this move.
1. As long as Carroll is occupying a roster spot, there's another player that we could have on the team that can be something other than a player that consistently gives up large chunks of yardage and a lot of points for the opposition.

2. Trading him is not worth the only kind of player that anyone would give up for him. A player that probably would also need to be cut. Cut your losses and go out and find a practice squad guy from another team that has shown the ability to guard someone without hanging on to their jersy for 30 yards.

There's another game to get ready for. Holding him on the roster even for the time it would take to find someone stupid enough to make a trade for him (which could be awhile) means that the team is that much farther behind getting ready for St. Louis.

I understand that you can't get a good player for him, but why not trade for a late pick at least?
Because after watching the Monday debacle, any GM with a brain wouldn't touch hin with a 100 foot pole. His trade value is zero.

[Bretsky]

I don't understand to things:

Number 1: Why not make him a bench or special teams player. His contact is very cheap and he's better than any 4th corner we have

Number 2: Why not trade him? even if it's for a 6th or 7th.

Overall I don't like this move.
1. As long as Carroll is occupying a roster spot, there's another player that we could have on the team that can be something other than a player that consistently gives up large chunks of yardage and a lot of points for the opposition.

2. Trading him is not worth the only kind of player that anyone would give up for him. A player that probably would also need to be cut. Cut your losses and go out and find a practice squad guy from another team that has shown the ability to guard someone without hanging on to their jersy for 30 yards.

There's another game to get ready for. Holding him on the roster even for the time it would take to find someone stupid enough to make a trade for him (which could be awhile) means that the team is that much farther behind getting ready for St. Louis.

I understand that you can't get a good player for him, but why not trade for a late pick at least?
Because after watching the Monday debacle, any GM with a brain wouldn't touch hin with a 100 foot pole. His trade value is zero.

I think after Monday his trade value was nothing as well.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Well it's fully sunk in and all I can say is what a classless move by Ted Thompson. Carroll played hard and always showed pride in being a Packer. People hated his boasting and bragging and never gave him slack for being so young. Demoting him would have made sense but just kicking him to the curb is BS!

So he has a bad game and gets cut while mega-money raider trash Woodson aint exactly lighting it up and Harris is racking up penalties like Predator collects skulls????

How is it that Bates had him looking good last season but now that the same coach from 2004 (remember them getting smoked for long PASS PLAYS) is back, Carroll and the whole secondary look like crap!!!!!!

Bad move, TT better find a way to clean this up soon or the Rams will be dropping again 30+ next week.

Unfortunately, I don't think it was just one bad game. He gave up the TD against New Orleans. While others were bragging about how he wasn't giving up completions, I pointed out that it's probably just more of the fact that teams weren't throwing on him. His ball skills are horrible. I don't care if it looks like he has coverage, he gives up too many plays anyways. If I were an opposing QB, I'd go after him all day--whether it looks like he has coverage or not because 80% of the time he isn't going to make a play on the ball.

[MadtownPacker]

OK well what about Woodson? He aint worth that $$$.

[HarveyWallbangers]

OK well what about Woodson? He aint worth that $$$.

He wasn't very good against Chicago and New Orleans. He's been decent the last two weeks (remember that Harris and Manuel were the main goats in the Detroit game). This week was his best week. I never thought Charles Woodson would be a savior. His Pro Bowl days are behind him. However, I feel much more confident about him than Carroll. The big question is whether he'll stay healthy all year.

The dollars Woodson got are not that lethal to the cap. He can be cut with little consequence after the year, so that's not an issue for me. As long as it doesn't hurt the long-term cap, I don't really care what a player makes.

[SkinBasket]

I still just hate the idea we let someone go that could contribute on a poor-ass special team unit just to make a "statement" when it's obvious the entire defense, and the DBs especially, are a wreck right now.

It's not so much that I hate losing carroll, who I've been a defender of. I hate cutting usuable talent in the name of making a scapegoat.

With or without Carroll, this team would still be 1-3. It's not like we were on the cusp of victory twice and Carroll gave up the game winning TD to sink us from 3-1 to 1-3. That's what makes this a sacrificial scapegoat more than a "statement."

[MadtownPacker]

I just hate the raider. But if you get paid big you should play big.

Anyways, TT didnt need to cut Carroll like that. Could have just demoted him.

[gureski]

Here are my cranky thoughts after reading the 7 pages worth of posts...

I think I saw one person even pass by the real issue here which is WHY WAS CARROLL ON THE TEAM to begin with? This is not management holding people responsible. This is not taking a stand against bad play. All you people talking with that moral highground tone are missing the boat. This is mismanagement. In training camp you have multiple guys available to you to try out and sample. You can put a rookie in the mix and get them ready to play. What the hell do you do now, entering Week5, to shore up this self inflicted wound? Who the hell do you get at this late stage to be your #3 CB?

It's just pathetic that they did this. It is no shock to anyone who is paying attention that Carroll is a poor CB. Management knew he was a poor CB when they decided to keep him to start the season. What changed in 4 weeks that made it necessary to cut the kid? It weakens the team and hurts morale during a time in which morale is weak to begin with. Who replaces him now? Why are we in a situation in Week 5 where we're looking for a #3 CB? That's flat out failure by management. You should not be looking for a #3 CB at this stage of the season!

I'm just outraged at the nature of this management team. I hate it. As of right now I hate it. I have little confidence in Thompson as a GM and I have no confidence in McCarthy and his pathetic staff. Alot of the defensive problems are a result of poor playcalling and bad scheme. When you have safeties covering WR's regularly....that's poor playcalling. It's the coaches job to get talent in the proper position to succeed. Then it's the players job to make plays.

If you keep Carroll as a pure special teams guy (which every team has some guys like this) then that's an improvement on special teams. The coaches said he was improving overall but that he kept having problems with the deep ball and penalties. SUPRISE!!! He had problems with those things the last two seasons! They couldn't see that going into this season? I called for Carroll to be cut two years ago so I'm not Carroll backer but I can't stand by and take part in the love-fest for management cutting the guy when it seems as if a good argument can be made that he actually started to mature and improve his overall game. Nobody can tell me he couldn't have been useful in a special teams role and nobody can tell me that he couldn't have been a useful DB in emergency situations. Someone mentioned trying him at safety..... hell, why not? Anything short of just flat out cutting the guy at a time when the team has nowhere to turn would be better then what they did.

Bottom line is that although this is a move many people wanted to see, the timing of the move hurts the team. This shows mismanagement. Indecision. Don't let the fact that you wanted to see this happen divert your attention away from the real issue here. It doesn't help the team. It's another example of Thompson not providing players for the coaching staff before the season starts and then doing nothing during the season to correct his mistake. See the guards decision from last year to further this point. At the very least, you'll be hard pressed to find someone of the athletic calibur of Carroll to hold a roster spot on this team. You may find guys that will cover as good or better but as far as overall value to the team, Carroll's value will be higher then anything they can pick up off the street at this point in time. And I can say that because if there were guys walking around the street that were good then the other 31 teams in the NFL would've staked a claim to them. The state of DB's in the NFL this year is NOT GOOD. There are many teams looking for help. This mistake by management and it shouldn't be praised.

Ask yourself what management's strategy was going into this season when they decided to keep Carroll as the #3CB? Was it Carroll or bust? Was there no back up plan? I mean, if the guy was cuttable material to management and they stuck him in there and didn't acquire anyone behind him of substance then what does that say about them? And then they change their minds 4 weeks into the season!

[run pMc]

With or without Carroll, this team would still be 1-3. It's not like we were on the cusp of victory twice and Carroll gave up the game winning TD to sink us from 3-1 to 1-3. That's what makes this a sacrificial scapegoat more than a "statement."

I'm with ya, mostly. Carroll was never gonna be a quality starting CB, but he could provide quality depth...in the right system with good coaching. I think we saw glimmers of that last year. I don't think he's the sole reason GB is 1-3.

All I know is that he's gone, and TT & M3 better have a plan. STL has a good offense and they are gonna be throwing all day on GB. Time for Al Harris to play up to his "I hope teams throw to my side of the field" smack talk.

[gureski]

All I know is that he's gone, and TT & M3 better have a plan. STL has a good offense and they are gonna be throwing all day on GB.

That's the whole point! WHAT PLAN COULD THEY POSSIBLY HAVE THAT WOULD MAKE SENSE OF THIS? You drop your #3CB after Week 4 because he exhibited traits that he had exhibited for his entire career! WHO do you get at this stage of the season to replace this guy? The answer is you don't get anything of quality that can help you win now. You get projects and gambles!

Push it further....DB's formerly on the team that are no longer on the team...Hawkins, Horton. Why cut ties with these players if you were anywhere near considering cutting Carroll? I mean, if it's even close, then protect yourself at that position! No?

It's flat out mismanagement. Now the team gets to spend the rest of the season with rookies and projects at a vital position. We still pay the guys contract and we don't even get special teams duty out of him. Once the decision was made to keep Carroll, they committed. You can't change your mind after 4 weeks. It's too late! That's the whole point! Around training camp there would've been guys you could've looked at. now what? Try to lure A.Plummer out of retirement?

[MJZiggy]

Can someone please tell me exactly what this quote means?

"We felt it was time to go in another direction," Packers coach Mike McCarthy said. "We wish Ahmad luck, and on a personal level, it may be in his best interest for him to move on to another NFL venue."

Thanks.

[Patler]

What changed in 4 weeks that made it necessary to cut the kid? It weakens the team and hurts morale during a time in which morale is weak to begin with. Who replaces him now? Why are we in a situation in Week 5 where we're looking for a #3 CB? That's flat out failure by management. You should not be looking for a #3 CB at this stage of the season!

.....

Ask yourself what management's strategy was going into this season when they decided to keep Carroll as the #3CB? Was it Carroll or bust? Was there no back up plan? I mean, if the guy was cuttable material to management and they stuck him in there and didn't acquire anyone behind him of substance then what does that say about them? And then they change their minds 4 weeks into the season!

No great mystery here. The plan has been in place since the off season. Move Carroll out of the starting spot, see if he can contribute at Nickel. They would like to have had a competition in camp between Blcakmon and Carroll, or even Dendy (who they seem to like) and Carroll, but both Blackmon and Dendy were injured. Both are now returning to health and ready to play, and Bush has been around for a month and knows the system. he is now ready to contribute, too..

That's why Carroll was kept around, and why he is gone. Because of injuries, mostly, he was the only alternative. Now, others are ready. As MM said yesterday, this has been disgussed for a long time.

[cheese_man]

he was not even playing that bad and our Nickel conerback might be Jarrett Bush. thats some bull

[Noodle]

Skin, ND and others are right -- this move makes no sense. Demote, maybe, but cut? Anybody think Manuel has been lightin' it up? So why not cut his sorry ass and try moving Carroll over? And what has Pop showed except a white skin, a buzz cut, and a lot of old school attitude? Cut his sorry ass. And KGB -- gone. Now, do you feel better?

People act like every reception is the fault of a DB. That's crap. Receivers all over the league are gaining beaucoup yardage nowadays due to the rules. Catches are going to happen, especially when you don't put up a pass rush and thereby allow receivers time to make double and triple moves.

Stupid, stupid, stupid. I guess we can just forget about playing dime this year. Even nickle will be a stretch. And we better hope those two old men on the corners don't get nicked.

[Patler]

Can someone please tell me exactly what this quote means?

"We felt it was time to go in another direction," Packers coach Mike McCarthy said. "We wish Ahmad luck, and on a personal level, it may be in his best interest for him to move on to another NFL venue."

Thanks.

It means they had gotten sick and tired of him in GB. He needs a new place and new coaches for a fresh start.

MM also mentioned meeting with his position coaches. Washington is in charge of the nickel package and cornerbacks. he also has been with Carroll since the start. Reading between the lines, he and maybe Schottenheimer gave up on Carroll.

[Patler]

My Prediction: As soon as Will Blackmon is ready to play, everyone will forget about Carroll very soon. That may start this weekend.

[cheese_man]

i think ted wants to get rid of all of Ms players and only keep his, for example walker,now carroll, and he probably not signing nick b

[Tony Oday]

OR shermy's players sucked...Carrol was terrible everybody saw that. He wasnt getting burned on triple moves he was getting burned by speed. He is a whipped dog that cant keep up with a real WR and even a BAD 3rd stringer burns him like a kleenex. He was terrible and an ass.

Walker wanted out because we werent giving him the respect he thought he deserved. He is a punk. Does he have talent? well hell yeah but he didnt want to play here.

Barnett will be resigned if not well they like Hodge so at least there is a backup plan there.

Woodson should actually have been spelled Law. I think TT needs to check his spell check on his comp.

[Guiness]

I hope you're right Patler, and that (or something similar) was the plan all along. However, it doesn't change my feeling that they should've demoted Carroll, and watched those guys play with real bullets flying a little bit before they cut him loose.

What's Dendy's status? He's on the PS, right?

[Patler]

If you start feeling bad about Carroll being cut, just re-read these to yourselves:

34 - Games played with the Green Bay Packers by cornerback Ahmad Carroll
28 - Games in which Carroll started
33 - Total penalty flags thrown against Carroll
26 - Penalties called for coverage violations such as pass interference, illegal contact and holding
256 - Penalty yards marched off as a result of his 24 infractions that weren't declined or offset by another penalty
11 - Touchdowns Carroll allowed in coverage
3 - Interceptions by Carroll

[gureski]

No great mystery here. The plan has been in place since the off season. Move Carroll out of the starting spot, see if he can contribute at Nickel. They would like to have had a competition in camp between Blcakmon and Carroll, or even Dendy (who they seem to like) and Carroll, but both Blackmon and Dendy were injured. Both are now returning to health and ready to play, and Bush has been around for a month and knows the system. he is now ready to contribute, too..

That's why Carroll was kept around, and why he is gone. Because of injuries, mostly, he was the only alternative. Now, others are ready. As MM said yesterday, this has been disgussed for a long time.

This makes no sense if you consider the fact that injuries happen and the guy you speak most of is coming off an injury. You need depth. If this is a simple issue of other players currently on the team being better then Carroll and those players are banged up and coming off injury then why wouldn't you keep Carroll as insurance in case those players aren't healthy yet or reinjure themselves? Dendy was on the practice squad, wasn't he? If he was better then why wasn't he playing?

Obviously, management felt Carroll was the best they had for the first 4 weeks of the season. Shouldn't you actually wait til a back up proves he's better before cutting the starter?

[MJZiggy]

Can someone please tell me exactly what this quote means?

"We felt it was time to go in another direction," Packers coach Mike McCarthy said. "We wish Ahmad luck, and on a personal level, it may be in his best interest for him to move on to another NFL venue."

Thanks.

It means they had gotten sick and tired of him in GB. He needs a new place and new coaches for a fresh start.

MM also mentioned meeting with his position coaches. Washington is in charge of the nickel package and cornerbacks. he also has been with Carroll since the start. Reading between the lines, he and maybe Schottenheimer gave up on Carroll.

Thanks, Patler, but I was asking specifically about the phrase "NFL venue." If he meant just go to another team, that would be obvious because he was just cut, but it was phrased like it was a piece of advice directed at him. Is he suggesting a change in position? Is he suggesting he go apply as a stadium janitor? The word 'venue' is throwing me off.

[Patler]

I hope you're right Patler, and that (or something similar) was the plan all along. However, it doesn't change my feeling that they should've demoted Carroll, and watched those guys play with real bullets flying a little bit before they cut him loose.

What's Dendy's status? He's on the PS, right?

Yes, Dendy is on PS.

Demoting Carroll might have been fine, depending on his attitude. We see only part of it, and he has grated on many of us with his hotdog attitude in games. As I mentioned above, I think the coaches gave up on him, didn't want to deal with him anymore and figured they would never get through to him anyway.

[Rastak]

If you start feeling bad about Carroll being cut, just re-read these to yourselves:

34 - Games played with the Green Bay Packers by cornerback Ahmad Carroll
28 - Games in which Carroll started
33 - Total penalty flags thrown against Carroll
26 - Penalties called for coverage violations such as pass interference, illegal contact and holding
256 - Penalty yards marched off as a result of his 24 infractions that weren't declined or offset by another penalty
11 - Touchdowns Carroll allowed in coverage
3 - Interceptions by Carroll


I think you missed passes defended (for completness sake)

[KYPack]

Skin, ND and others are right -- this move makes no sense. Demote, maybe, but cut? Anybody think Manuel has been lightin' it up? So why not cut his sorry ass and try moving Carroll over? And what has Pop showed except a white skin, a buzz cut, and a lot of old school attitude? Cut his sorry ass. And KGB -- gone. Now, do you feel better?

People act like every reception is the fault of a DB. That's crap. Receivers all over the league are gaining beaucoup yardage nowadays due to the rules. Catches are going to happen, especially when you don't put up a pass rush and thereby allow receivers time to make double and triple moves.
Stupid, stupid, stupid. I guess we can just forget about playing dime this year. Even nickle will be a stretch. And we better hope those two old men on the corners don't get nicked.

Great post Noodle. That is what all DBack coaches know and understand. They are gonna complete passes, they always do

-You can't stop the perfect pass
-You probably won't stop a good pass

The idea is to defend the average passes and pick all the bad ones.

But we will play nickle and dime. We have to. I have another worry. We have to play Martz and a few other crazies. They will do 5 wides or 4 wides and a "pass back". We'll have to play some cover 7 (7 DB's) Do we even have 7 cover backs?

[gureski]

If you start feeling bad about Carroll being cut, just re-read these to yourselves:

34 - Games played with the Green Bay Packers by cornerback Ahmad Carroll
28 - Games in which Carroll started
33 - Total penalty flags thrown against Carroll
26 - Penalties called for coverage violations such as pass interference, illegal contact and holding
256 - Penalty yards marched off as a result of his 24 infractions that weren't declined or offset by another penalty
11 - Touchdowns Carroll allowed in coverage
3 - Interceptions by Carroll

Again, the issue isn't whether Carroll deserved to be cut. Knee-jerk reaction is to be happy a poor player is gone. The real issue is WHY the team waited til the start of Week 5 to make this decision! Does this make the overall team better or worse to be looking for a replacement in Week 5 compared to during training camp?

There is no way you can look at this and not see indecision and mismanagement by the GM and coach. You don't shop for a #3 CB during Week 5 of the NFL season unless injury or attitude puts you in that spot. These guys screwed up in keeping Carroll and now they're screwing up in cutting him without having anyone ready to take over. All that is set to take over are rookies and flyer players. If that's the game plan.....to take flyers on guys and just take shots in the dark instead of methodically using the cap money they have to assure there are at least average players at every position then this team is in more trouble then we know.

Again, the stats above don't tell us anything we, and management, didn't already know. The question becomes why did they keep him and why didn't they go after another DB to be the #3CB if they felt Carroll was that close to being cut? How much cap money is sitting there as we now look to pick up a #3CB in Week 5?

Again, what kind of plan is this? Keep a guy who shouldn't be on the roster and then cut him when you're depending on him? Cut a FB when the other FB is still injured? The decision making process stinks. They're not doing everything they can to win now. There are things they could do to win now AND build for the future. All i see is a breaking down of the roster without replacing players with capable bodies. It's not like they don't have the cap room to have signed a guy. If they knew Carroll was on the fence then they should've had a better back up plan for a position as important as #3CB.

[Patler]

This makes no sense if you consider the fact that injuries happen and the guy you speak most of is coming off an injury. You need depth. If this is a simple issue of other players currently on the team being better then Carroll and those players are banged up and coming off injury then why wouldn't you keep Carroll as insurance in case those players aren't healthy yet or reinjure themselves? Dendy was on the practice squad, wasn't he? If he was better then why wasn't he playing?

Obviously, management felt Carroll was the best they had for the first 4 weeks of the season. Shouldn't you actually wait til a back up proves he's better before cutting the starter?

After listening to all the complaining about Carrol for two years, I'm amazed at all this handwringing over his release.

For the first four weeks of the season, Carroll was their best option, because:
1. Blackmon was still injured.
2. Bush was new to the system.
3. Dendy was hurt for most of TC.
4. Hawkins' flame burned out.
5. Horton just couldn't get untracked, with injuries and illnesses always seeming to hold him back

Based on what they see in practices and in some game exposure, they obviously feel Bush is now ready for a more prominent role, Blackmon is returning to health and Dendy is again healthy and up to speed.

For whatever reason, Carroll has been quite bad so far this season. Can any of the others really be any worse?

Reading McCarthy's press conference, it seems clear that the Packers realize everyone has gotten the scoop on Carroll. Throw long. Even if he is in position to make a play, he won't. His ball skills are that poor, and not improving. I'm anxious to see Blackmon in those situations. He is bigger and has good hands. Spending last year as a WR demonstrates his ball skills.

[gureski]

I hope you're right Patler, and that (or something similar) was the plan all along. However, it doesn't change my feeling that they should've demoted Carroll, and watched those guys play with real bullets flying a little bit before they cut him loose.

What's Dendy's status? He's on the PS, right?

Yes, Dendy is on PS.

Demoting Carroll might have been fine, depending on his attitude. We see only part of it, and he has grated on many of us with his hotdog attitude in games. As I mentioned above, I think the coaches gave up on him, didn't want to deal with him anymore and figured they would never get through to him anyway.

The biggest story after the Eagles loss was how humble Carroll was in the post-game press conference. He took full responsibility for his actions. The kid was maturing. You could see it and his teammates could see it. The media was writing about it. His attitude wasn't the issue anymore which brings me full circle around again to the question of WHY cut him now? They knew what he had to offer as a DB so why act surprised when he gets penalties and gives up big plays?

They decided to keep hitting the square peg into the round hole. They could've tried a different hole (ie safety or special teams). They didn't and it doesn't make sense.

[SkinBasket]

Demoting Carroll might have been fine, depending on his attitude. We see only part of it, and he has grated on many of us with his hotdog attitude in games. As I mentioned above, I think the coaches gave up on him, didn't want to deal with him anymore and figured they would never get through to him anyway.

Patler, the statement about his attitude is completely untrue. What you see on the field may not have always been palatable, but what makes it any different than what 80% of the players in the NFL do to celebrate average plays?

On the flip side, how many CBs, especially young 1st round picks, would accept a demotion in favor of Joey Thomas and then again to Woodson with nothing more to say than, "My goal is to work harder?" Carroll demonstrated a great attitude off the field given his circumstances.

Hell, one of his goals was to contribute on ST. How many first round busts will you hear that from? I find it hard to believe he would have had any problem being demoted to ST only. And even if he did, that would be the time to cut him, not before.

[Sparkey]

Can someone please tell me exactly what this quote means?

"We felt it was time to go in another direction," Packers coach Mike McCarthy said. "We wish Ahmad luck, and on a personal level, it may be in his best interest for him to move on to another NFL venue."

Thanks.


The actual quote is:

We talk personnel every day pretty much. Meeting with Ted and the personnel department and the coaches, we felt it was time to go in another direction. We're going to give Jarrett Bush and Patrick Dendy an opportunity. We wish Ahmad luck. On a personal level it may be in his best interest as he moves on to another NFL venue.

[/b]

[gureski]

Let's cut through the side crap. Do you agree with this style of management?

Is this the proper way to build a team and win in the NFL?

Do you go into the season, with cap room, and not have players to cover all the key positions on your team?

If they knew Carroll was a guy they may cut then they should have had better replacements available prior to Week 5 of the season. That's the issue here. It's ridiculous to cut your nickel back in Week 5 without having an established replacement ready. All the Packers have waiting to replace Carroll in the key position of Nickel CB are rookies and unproven players. That's indisputable. They're putting the season in the hands of rookies and unproven players and it didn't have to be that way.

That's the issue. Is this a reoccurring trend? The guard situation from last year. The juggling of guards this year. Is this going to be a trademark of the Thompson years? Wolf always had starters ready and always went out to fill holes when they opened up. Thompson doesn't fill holes. He creates them and then sits back and waits to draft to fill all the holes. You can't win like that today. you can build a winner long-term that way but you're cementing yourself into losing for years before you get good. You do have to successfully use free agency to fill holes on your team. If you want to win, you can't depend solely on the draft to fix mistakes and patch holes.

[SkinBasket]

More evidence of the poor level of coaching on the D side of the ball from JSO Notes:

Short shrift
The Packers were overmatched enough against the Eagles that they didn't need to make it any tougher on themselves.

But they did.

Twice they lined up on defense with just 10 men on the field.

On one of them, safety Tyrone Culver was summoned to the sideline and either knew better not to leave or simply followed orders. The result was a wide-open tight end L.J. Smith, who scampered 21 yards to the Packers' 4.

"(There were) problems with the no huddle, which is why a lot of people do that, switch personnel groups," McCarthy said. "Culver went on, which was the appropriate personnel group, but the communication for him to come back off was inaccurate, so that's what he did. We were going to our '47' group and that was a miscommunication there."

[Patler]

Gureski;

I'm not going to get into a lengthy debate over this. I don't have the time today, and you pretty much ignore my explaination and just repeat your generalized complaint anyway. So I'll repeat my explaintion one more time and drop the issue.

Going into TC the Packer had nine corners; Blackmon, Carroll, Dendy, Fontenot, Harris, Hawkins, Horton, Wishom and Woodson. Wishom and Fontenot were just camp fodder, the others were expected to compete.

Hawkins refused to play with injuries, and finally exposed himself as an unwilling tackler. His leg injury last year seemed to take away a lot of his speed. He was done and gone. Horton just couldn't get it going. Too many injuries and illnesses. Blackmon and Dendy were both injured.

Carrol won the spot almost by default, but I also think the Packers wanted to give him one final extended opportunity to show that he could harness his obvious athletic skills and become a player. He hasn't shown that.

Blackmon is the key to this whole thing. They expected him to be ready in a couple weeks, but he had a setback. I assume he is now over that, or they may have held on to Carroll another few weeks. For the first time since training camp thay have options other tha Carroll at nickel. carroll has done absolutely nothing there in four games. You might as well try someone else.
Bush needed time. He has now had a month.

[Patler]

Patler, the statement about his attitude is completely untrue. What you see on the field may not have always been palatable, but what makes it any different than what 80% of the players in the NFL do to celebrate average plays?

On the flip side, how many CBs, especially young 1st round picks, would accept a demotion in favor of Joey Thomas and then again to Woodson with nothing more to say than, "My goal is to work harder?" Carroll demonstrated a great attitude off the field given his circumstances.

Hell, one of his goals was to contribute on ST. How many first round busts will you hear that from? I find it hard to believe he would have had any problem being demoted to ST only. And even if he did, that would be the time to cut him, not before.

I have acknowledged many times since last spring and did yesterday in this thread that I was impressed by the way Carroll handled the signing of Woodson. However, hotdoging before the play is done, rather than blocking on an interception return, constant harping to the refs over obvious penalties, etc. are things that many have found irritating. But what I was really referring to are possible things we don't know about. Several writers continue to imply that he does not accept coaching well. Whether it is an unwillingness or an inability to do what the coaches ask, the result is the same. Time to move on.

[MJZiggy]

Can someone please tell me exactly what this quote means?

"We felt it was time to go in another direction," Packers coach Mike McCarthy said. "We wish Ahmad luck, and on a personal level, it may be in his best interest for him to move on to another NFL venue."

Thanks.


The actual quote is:

We talk personnel every day pretty much. Meeting with Ted and the personnel department and the coaches, we felt it was time to go in another direction. We're going to give Jarrett Bush and Patrick Dendy an opportunity. We wish Ahmad luck. On a personal level it may be in his best interest as he moves on to another NFL venue.

[/b]

Thank you. That makes much more sense. Packersnews misquoted.

[gureski]

Patler....stick around for one more go-round.

Are the replacements you speak of established players?

Do they have any experience being the #3CB for an NFL team?

Can you call them experienced at all?

Are they anything close to sure-things?

That's the point here. You say I'm repeating myself but that's because you refuse to acknowledge the point I'm making. Sure, they may believe these guys can work out but none of them are established and therefore, they're all shots in the dark! Worse, some are shots in the dark coming off injuries! This is by no means an ideal way to build a team or compete. THAT is the point. They're cutting a guy who was the only experienced DB available to play the Nickel and all they have left to replace him are questions! Believe it or not, the replacements could be worse then Carroll! And nothing you say addresses the idea that Carroll's athletic ability could've been useful to the team at safety or in special teams.

What happens if all the guys you mention fail? Then who do they fall back on? According to you, Carroll was the best option after those guys. If they fail, who do the Packers turn to then? Carroll will be playing for some other team. It's either mismanagement or idiocy. I was assuming they have some brains. Maybe you're right and it's pure idiocy.

[Patler]

More evidence of the poor level of coaching on the D side of the ball from JSO Notes:

Short shrift
The Packers were overmatched enough against the Eagles that they didn't need to make it any tougher on themselves.

But they did.

Twice they lined up on defense with just 10 men on the field.

On one of them, safety Tyrone Culver was summoned to the sideline and either knew better not to leave or simply followed orders. The result was a wide-open tight end L.J. Smith, who scampered 21 yards to the Packers' 4.

"(There were) problems with the no huddle, which is why a lot of people do that, switch personnel groups," McCarthy said. "Culver went on, which was the appropriate personnel group, but the communication for him to come back off was inaccurate, so that's what he did. We were going to our '47' group and that was a miscommunication there."

Someone also mentioned in another thread that Carroll adnitted one time it was his fault because he wasn't paying attention to the call on the sideline, and failed to realize he should go in.

[Patler]

Patler....stick around for one more go-round.

Are the replacements you speak of established players?

Do they have any experience being the #3CB for an NFL team?

Can you call them experienced at all?

Are they anything close to sure-things?

That's the point here. You say I'm repeating myself but that's because you refuse to acknowledge the point I'm making. Sure, they may believe these guys can work out but none of them are established and therefore, they're all shots in the dark! Worse, some are shots in the dark coming off injuries! This is by no means an ideal way to build a team or compete. THAT is the point. They're cutting a guy who was the only experienced DB available to play the Nickel and all they have left to replace him are questions! Believe it or not, the replacements could be worse then Carroll! And nothing you say addresses the idea that Carroll's athletic ability could've been useful to the team at safety or in special teams.

What happens if all the guys you mention fail? Then who do they fall back on? According to you, Carroll was the best option after those guys. If they fail, who do the Packers turn to then? Carroll will be playing for some other team. It's either mismanagement or idiocy. I was assuming they have some brains. Maybe you're right and it's pure idiocy.

I'll answer your questions with some of my own. Was Carroll an established player? Was he a sure thing? The answer to both is yes, but not in a good way. Personally, I defended Carroll all last summer, and I thought with him at nickel the Packers would be very good on passing downs. But, although he made some plays, he was absolutely atrocious on way too many long plays. It seems teams had decided to simply throw at him and let him screw up. Last year I thought he was OK at the end of the season, seemed to have good position much of the time etc. This year team after team showed that it didn't matter if he had good position or not, most of the time he wouldn't make the play. That kills a cornerback. If teams think they can complete passes against you even when you have good coverage, you are dead meat as a corner unless you prove them wrong with a bunch of interceptions. Carroll was never going to do that, it appeared

I was one strongly in favor of giving Carrol time to develope. But I admit now it wasn't going to happen in GB.

I don't care how bad or inexperienced Blckmon, Bush or Dendy are; no matter how poorly they play it won't be any worse than what Carroll has done this year at nickel.

Besides, teams rely on rookies to be starters all the time. The Packers did it with McKenzie, Carroll and Collins just in the D backfield. They counted on Hawk from the get-go this year. Other teams do too, all the time. Relying on a rookie as your THIRD cornerback is the way it is supposed to go, and preferrable to having him start.

[Guiness]

Blackmon is the key to this whole thing. They expected him to be ready in a couple weeks, but he had a setback. I assume he is now over that, or they may have held on to Carroll another few weeks. For the first time since training camp thay have options other tha Carroll at nickel. carroll has done absolutely nothing there in four games. You might as well try someone else.
Bush needed time. He has now had a month.

That makes the wheels turn. Blackmon originally got back on the field too early (last week of TC, I think) and re-injured his foot, didn't he? I wonder if they were trying to get him back so they could cut Carroll before the end of camp? This would be the case if we are to have any faith in Packer management, and hope that Gureski is wrong about them having no plan...

So - did Blackmon practice at full speed last week? Although it looks like Dendy might be the one getting the spot at nickel back.

Gureski, I truly hope you are wrong, but I'm not so sure you are :sad:

[KYPack]

You two lads are goin' at it pretty good.

G-man, you are in the middle of a full-blown, revelatory screed, man!

I do have a third take.

I think Carroll earned a benching not a cutting.

Take him off back-up corner
Take him out of the nickle.

He does dime and ALL specials that he fits in.

Chew his ASS & see if he responds at all. 99% you cut him at the end of the year, march or june depending on roster bonuses, etc.

We just really don't have the manpower to totally cut him loose.
He's a goof, a fool, a hotdog, an ass, a whatever.

But he does know where to line up. Some of these kids we got need camp, not regular season experience. We can't just loose him from a logistics standpoint. I thought he might make it, it didn't go. But now we have the greenest kids in the world trying to do a job they don't know.

It's gonna get ugly.

OTOH, maybe we might as well just take it in the pants and get it over with.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

You two lads are goin' at it pretty good.

G-man, you are in the middle of a full-blown, revelatory screed, man!

I do have a third take.

I think Carroll earned a benching not a cutting.

Take him off back-up corner
Take him out of the nickle.

He does dime and ALL specials that he fits in.

Chew his ASS & see if he responds at all. 99% you cut him at the end of the year, march or june depending on roster bonuses, etc.

We just really don't have the manpower to totally cut him loose.
He's a goof, a fool, a hotdog, an ass, a whatever.

But he does know where to line up. Some of these kids we got need camp, not regular season experience. We can't just loose him from a logistics standpoint. I thought he might make it, it didn't go. But now we have the greenest kids in the world trying to do a job they don't know.

It's gonna get ugly.

OTOH, maybe we might as well just take it in the pants and get it over with.

This is my take also. Bench him so you can see what Blackman and Bush have and they turn out to be wrose than AC you can go back with him. Also I pretty sure if we traded a 6th for R.Truluck, (not sure how to spell his name) a crappy backup DE, we could of got a 5th for AC. I know theres at least one GM who'd be willing to give a 5 th or 6th for AC.

[Sparkey]

You two lads are goin' at it pretty good.

G-man, you are in the middle of a full-blown, revelatory screed, man!

I do have a third take.

I think Carroll earned a benching not a cutting.

Take him off back-up corner
Take him out of the nickle.

He does dime and ALL specials that he fits in.

Chew his ASS & see if he responds at all. 99% you cut him at the end of the year, march or june depending on roster bonuses, etc.

We just really don't have the manpower to totally cut him loose.
He's a goof, a fool, a hotdog, an ass, a whatever.

But he does know where to line up. Some of these kids we got need camp, not regular season experience. We can't just loose him from a logistics standpoint. I thought he might make it, it didn't go. But now we have the greenest kids in the world trying to do a job they don't know.

It's gonna get ugly.

OTOH, maybe we might as well just take it in the pants and get it over with.

You make it sound like Bush and Dendy have never played football before. If Bush gets burned for a touchdown this week and commits two penalites what have we lost ? IF he was not going to play in the secondary anymore, then it was the correct move.

BTW, atleast management can admit a mistake and move on and not hold onto someone just out of hope that they "might" improve enough to validate their draft spot and roster spot.

The only thing worse than making a mistake is not admitting when you made one and correcting it.

[Patler]

It's gonna get ugly.


It was already ugly! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

As for benching Carroll, what's the point? He was benched last year. He was already demoted once this year. Did anything change?

Another point that has been overlooked is the status of the roster for healthy players. This is the time of the season when roster spots start to become a little more valuable because of injuries. The Packers have Green hobbling, 2 linebackers hurt, 2 DTs hurt, 2 TE's with injuries, Ferguson probably is out and Driver is banged up. If they really want to play Blackmon, Bush and Dendy, it might be difficult to tie up another roster spot on a corner back. They may feel thay have to sign a linebacker, or a RB or a TE or WR just because those positions are thin of healthy players.

[HarveyWallbangers]

With or without Carroll, this team would still be 1-3. It's not like we were on the cusp of victory twice and Carroll gave up the game winning TD to sink us from 3-1 to 1-3. That's what makes this a sacrificial scapegoat more than a "statement."

We wouldn't have beaten the Bears with somebody else. We wouldn't have beaten Philadelphia, most likely, although Carroll played a huge role in the second half. Not so sure about the New Orleans game though. He gave up a long TD to Henderson by playing really poor coverage. We lost by 7 points. He may have indeed played a big factor in us losing that game.

[CaptainKickass]

Carrol played like a rookie for 4 years. Crappy performance on MNF = cut. I like that they are not afraid to pull the trigger. Shows some balls and should be a warning shot to Shittyhiemer and Bob. guess who's gonna be next?


lol - buh-bye ShittyHeimer.


:D

[Zool]

Its possible that the school of thought is to release him now in the hopes that someone picks him up this season. That way his cap figure applys completely to this season and not next.

Someone will pick him up. Right or wrong he was cut. I am glad he's gone. He just wasnt cutting it. We had 2 DB's to replace him in TC, but they were both hurt. They are both near healthy now, so lets move on and see what we have.

[ahaha]

I'd like to know what's been going on in the meeting rooms. Is it possible that Carroll's preperation for games just wasn't up to snuff? Maybe he didn't pay that much attention in meetings. Example......"Ahmad, on this play you have over top coverage and you absolutely CAN'T bite on a play fake." "Yeah, sure coach, whatever." Then he goes out and makes that ridiculous mistake. Reports from scouts have said he doesn't take well to coaching. Maybe this kind of thing happened a lot. Maybe his laize-faire attitude to coaching in meetings got too frustrating for the coaches. If this theory is somewhat correct, it would give merit to the idea of cutting him as a message to other players about the kind of players the packers want, and who they're willing to cut if they don't have that.

[Astonishment]

Reading between the lines it seems as if Carroll didn't take well to the coaching (attitude wise - of coarse the secondary coaching is bed). Even if this wasn't the case Carroll lack of improvement was the reason he is gone.

[mission]

You make it sound like Bush and Dendy have never played football before. If Bush gets burned for a touchdown this week and commits two penalites what have we lost ? IF he was not going to play in the secondary anymore, then it was the correct move.

THIS is the bottom line folks. Christ!

All you guys wondering who's gonna be the replacement and oh wow, how can you do something like this without a "backup plan" are failing to get a grasp on this.

ANYONE on the Packers' squad would be an adequate replacement for FAILURE. If anyone covers anyone just once, gets a knocked down pass or doesnt on one play get called for a penalty then we've improved as a team. I have a hard time believing there is a player on the Packer sideline who can't do exactly what Carroll did for three years: get torched.

At least give one of these guys a chance to show he's a bit better than Carroll while also sending a message to the rest of the team. Seriously, call it a scapegoat -- who cares -- but we've been crying about this forever and it's a step in the right direction. Even if Bush ends up being a bit worse than Carroll in his first game (hard to believe), then at least we have some time to play the potential card for awhile. AC's is up, we've held onto that and it didnt take anyone anywhere in a positive direction. At least let me *hope* a guy can improve. With AC, that doesnt exist.

We don't need a backup plan. We will not lose ANYTHING in this. Forget special teams, forget all that. He's a cancer to this team and is prohibiting the development of other, more deserving players.

[jack's smirking revenge]

Carrol played like a rookie for 4 years. Crappy performance on MNF = cut. I like that they are not afraid to pull the trigger. Shows some balls and should be a warning shot to Shittyhiemer and Bob. guess who's gonna be next?


lol - buh-bye ShittyHeimer.


:D

I agree. I like swift corrections to a recurring problem, even if it means that it has to happen during regular season. Carroll never EARNED a place on this team; it was given to him as a first round pick. The staff has been patient with him since he was drafted and lost patience.

Take this out of the frame of the NFL and equate this to your own workplace: if you continually underperformed and made your organization look foolish on a national stage, would you still have your job?

Hell no. You wouldn't be demoted to the mailroom; you'd be let go.

tyler

[Bossman641]

I'm still behind TT. Here's my problem with him though.

Everyone keeps praising TT for getting rid of the garbage and cutting the fat. That is the easy part, the hard part is replacing that garbage with something better.

So far, TT has failed at this almost every time. There's a reason why all these guys we pick up were on practice squads.

I just don't understand cutting Carroll when you have an inexperienced, injured player (Blackmon) and an inexperienced player (Bush) behind them. Carroll should have been demoted and moved to special teams.

If I were an opposing coordinator I'd line up with 3 and 4 wides every time

[mission]

If I were an opposing coordinator I'd line up with 3 and 4 wides every time

they have, they are, and they will continue to.......... :sad:

[jack's smirking revenge]

If I were an opposing coordinator I'd line up with 3 and 4 wides every time

So would I. Which means that Bush, Blackmon or Dendy will be the bomb by the end of the season or we'll know exactly what we need during free agency.

tyler

[MJZiggy]

You're saying getting rid of Klemm & whatshisname at guard and replacing them with Spitz and Colledge/Moll was a bad idea????

[MJZiggy]

If I were an opposing coordinator I'd line up with 3 and 4 wides every time

So would I. Which means that Bush, Blackmon or Dendy will be the bomb by the end of the season or we'll know exactly what we need during free agency.

tyler

So how would that be different than the Philly game?

[mission]

If I were an opposing coordinator I'd line up with 3 and 4 wides every time

So would I. Which means that Bush, Blackmon or Dendy will be the bomb by the end of the season or we'll know exactly what we need during free agency.

tyler

So how would that be different than the Philly game?

it wouldnt be.

but at least it would be IMPROVING the player, helping the develop, getting them the reps they need.

AC has had that time, he's shown he cant adjust to a ball in the air, that he gets lost in space. if im gonna get burned, i at least want players getting better in the process.

[jack's smirking revenge]

If I were an opposing coordinator I'd line up with 3 and 4 wides every time

So would I. Which means that Bush, Blackmon or Dendy will be the bomb by the end of the season or we'll know exactly what we need during free agency.

tyler

So how would that be different than the Philly game?

it wouldnt be.

but at least it would be IMPROVING the player, helping the develop, getting them the reps they need.

AC has had that time, he's shown he cant adjust to a ball in the air, that he gets lost in space. if im gonna get burned, i at least want players getting better in the process.

Exactly. Lito Sheppard and Al Harris were compotent backups. Once they got reps, they excelled. We won't know about Bush or Dendy or Blackmon until they have regular reps.

tyler

[packrulz]

Its possible that the school of thought is to release him now in the hopes that someone picks him up this season. That way his cap figure applys completely to this season and not next.

Someone will pick him up. Right or wrong he was cut. I am glad he's gone. He just wasnt cutting it. We had 2 DB's to replace him in TC, but they were both hurt. They are both near healthy now, so lets move on and see what we have.

Zool has a good point, I'm sure TT considers the money they are wasting on Carroll. They can pay Bush or Dendy a lot less to screw up. I don't think Blackmon is good to go yet, but I'm guessing since MM mentioned Bush & Dendy.

[Sparkey]

I'm still behind TT. Here's my problem with him though.

Everyone keeps praising TT for getting rid of the garbage and cutting the fat. That is the easy part, the hard part is replacing that garbage with something better.

So far, TT has failed at this almost every time.


Hmmm,

Traded a Javon Walker & replaced with a Greg Jennings

Cut Sharper and acquired Collins

Wahle & Rivera go and are replaced with Colledge/Spitz/Moll

Lenon & Navies gone replaced with Hawk & Hodge & Taylor

Carrol replaced with Woodson

Sanders replaced with Ryan

Longwell replaced with Rayner


The issue isn't that he hasn't brought in replacements, its that usually some replacements are from earlier drafts. BUT, instead TT has had too do this in a two year window because of the poor depth and drafts of previous years.

Lets face it, most players take 2-3 years to come into their own and the poor drafting and subsequent crash in overall team performance is the result.

[BooHoo]

Carrol isn't a big loss. I never thought he played well and he is/was a liability on the field. He was selected way to high in the draft. Maybe another team will pick him up. At least TT is not afraid to make decisions.

[chain_gang]

I'd have to say I'm against this move, we don't have many options at CB. Carroll's story was a tale of two halves. Great in the first, lousy in the second. However, in other games he did give up TD's, but he was kind of responsible for our lone win so far. With the tight coverage, ball deflection against the lions that Manuel returned for a TD. Now here's a stat I'd like to see. TD's Manuel was responsible for vs. Carroll's.

But to call for one players head, when the whole secondary(exception of woodson) is playing like crap is ridiculous. The beloved Nick Collins looks lost in coverage, Manuel no need to beat a dead horse, Harris-playing okay, but how can you not get up to a game against your former team. The last time I saw something like this was in 2004 with Slowik and Schot. Players blaming miscommunication and crap. Wasn't that the year Mckenzie wanted out before the season. This whole secondary looks lost, and worse yet they look like they don't even want to play for these coaches, and that's the most troublesome.

Another point is, the plays Carroll was beat on badly were longer passes, routes that took a bit to develope. If you give any quarterback to much time too throw their going to pick you apart. Ex. Kitna, Brees, Grossman, McNabb.

But the main fact is Carroll is gone, and now there is no experience. Blackmon has to have an adjustment period, and I think it'll be a while. He's been hurt so look for him to make his main contributions next year. Needs conditioning, Played Wr. last year in college, Dendy and Bush I honestly don't know much about, but I guess I won't have to wait long.

On a side note, I would recommend picking up the Rams 3 and 4 WRs. If you have a glaring hole in your receiving core. They should be able to put up some good numbers.

[BooHoo]

But to call for one players head, when the whole secondary(exception of woodson) is playing like crap is ridiculous.

A possible reason for Carrol's dismissal might be that he has never consistently played well. He does not have a great track record and maybe he already reached his full potential.

Two other possible thoughts about the release of Carrol: (1) TT could have wanted to send a message to the other players and Carrol was the most expendible, thus the choice to axe; (2) TT wanted to show eveyone that he wasn't just sitting back given his terrible record. Releasing Caroll takes the medias eyes off of TT and puts it on Carrol (at least for a period of time). If this season's record is similiar to last year, then it is only a matter of time before the media talks about TT the way they do about the man in Detroit.

Don't misunderstand my thoughts, I am not calling for TT's release. Actually, I have been a full supporter going back to the JSO days. However, if his poor record continues "fire TT" talk will become loud.

[KYPack]

You two lads are goin' at it pretty good.

I do have a third take.
I think Carroll earned a benching not a cutting.

Take him off back-up corner
Take him out of the nickle.

He does dime and ALL specials that he fits in.
Chew his ASS & see if he responds at all. 99% you cut him at the end of the year, march or june depending on roster bonuses, etc.
We just really don't have the manpower to totally cut him loose.
He's a goof, a fool, a hotdog, an ass, a whatever.

But he does know where to line up. Some of these kids we got need camp, not regular season experience. We can't just loose him from a logistics standpoint. I thought he might make it, it didn't go. But now we have the greenest kids in the world trying to do a job they don't know.

It's gonna get ugly.

OTOH, maybe we might as well just take it in the pants and get it over with.

You make it sound like Bush and Dendy have never played football before. If Bush gets burned for a touchdown this week and commits two penalites what have we lost ? IF he was not going to play in the secondary anymore, then it was the correct move.

BTW, atleast management can admit a mistake and move on and not hold onto someone just out of hope that they "might" improve enough to validate their draft spot and roster spot.

The only thing worse than making a mistake is not admitting when you made one and correcting it.

Well Spark,

At least you got a good atitude.

I don't agree & I'd like to get into a great cyber-fight with ya.

But I just don't have the juice. I just think Carroll might have a role in dime and some other things and these kids aren't ready to help us.

It can actually retard or ruin young DBack to toss 'em to the wolves like this,

Bush & Dendy have played ball before, but not in the NFL. These are the youngest of the young and this is like running out into rush hour traffic

[MJZiggy]

KY, we do, however have an open roster spot due to Kendrick Allen going on IR, so I'm interested to see what TT will do with it.

[mraynrand]

Carroll = scapegoat, pure and simple. I admit that the guy may never have panned out, but given the blown coverages and huge plays given up by others in the secondary, the cutting of Carroll doesn't seem to be based on any consistently applied criteria.

[Patler]

Bush & Dendy have played ball before, but not in the NFL. These are the youngest of the young and this is like running out into rush hour traffic

You are only half right. Dendy was on the Packers active roster for the final 8 games last year and played in 4 games. He was a game day inactive the other four. He was on the practice saquad the first 8 games.

[KYPack]

KY, we do, however have an open roster spot due to Kendrick Allen going on IR, so I'm interested to see what TT will do with it.

Well we are down:

A LB
A WR (Ferg may be hurt, there's the dude I wanted cut)
A DB (sort of)

The player will have to play ST.

Is it me, or is injury info more difficult to come by?

I didn't know Allen was hurt bad.

Likewise Taylor & Hodge

Do MM & TT like to play this close to the vest like NE maybe?

[MJZiggy]

I know he said Hodge was hurt during the game but didn't report it 'til after. I didn't even know Taylor was hurt. I don't know about them keeping it that tight. M3 does go over the injury list every press conference.

[Joemailman]

Its possible that the school of thought is to release him now in the hopes that someone picks him up this season. That way his cap figure applys completely to this season and not next.

Someone will pick him up. Right or wrong he was cut. I am glad he's gone. He just wasnt cutting it. We had 2 DB's to replace him in TC, but they were both hurt. They are both near healthy now, so lets move on and see what we have.

Zool has a good point, I'm sure TT considers the money they are wasting on Carroll. They can pay Bush or Dendy a lot less to screw up. I don't think Blackmon is good to go yet, but I'm guessing since MM mentioned Bush & Dendy.


I think McCarthy said in his press conference that he is hoping to have Blackmon back after the bye week.

[SkinBasket]

Two other things of note in todays JSO edition:


Perceived as mouthy, immature and not nearly as good as he portrayed himself to be by many on the outside, cornerback Ahmad Carroll was nonetheless a popular player among many of his fellow defensive backs in the Green Bay Packers locker room.

Not really the sign of a guy with an attitude problem.


The player who stands to gain the most from Carroll's release for now is Patrick Dendy.

The 6-foot, 190-pounder out of Rice was promoted to the active roster on Wednesday and immediately stepped into the nickel with the No. 1 defense. He also saw some time in the slot, a spot that Charles Woodson has been holding down to date...

In regards to his ankle:

"It's going to be sore but it's not hurting me," he said.

This was our plan? To bypass the other CBs on the roster and push a PS guy with Glenn Robinson syndrome into what amounts to our starting line-up? Can't wait to see how big Bulger's eyes are going to be Sun.

[KYPack]

Bush & Dendy have played ball before, but not in the NFL. These are the youngest of the young and this is like running out into rush hour traffic

You are only half right. Dendy was on the Packers active roster for the final 8 games last year and played in 4 games. He was a game day inactive the other four. He was on the practice saquad the first 8 games.

4 games and two tackles are under Dendy's belt, but he's a rookie to me, bud.

[swede]

Carroll = scapegoat, pure and simple. I admit that the guy may never have panned out, but given the blown coverages and huge plays given up by others in the secondary, the cutting of Carroll doesn't seem to be based on any consistently applied criteria.

I agree. Who doesn't call for accountability? I do. But, as bad as Carroll was, his poor play wasn't unexpected, was it? Instead of making TT and MM look tough, it continues to polish up a perception among some that they really don't know what they're doing. ( I don't agree with that sentiment but this move serves up some ammunition for that viewpoint. )

Don't get me wrong. I'm not crying that Carroll is gone, but to me the move seems impulsive and somewhat desperate. Like a boss that gets a bad quarterly report and runs around the plant firing people until he feels better.

[Patler]

Bush & Dendy have played ball before, but not in the NFL. These are the youngest of the young and this is like running out into rush hour traffic

You are only half right. Dendy was on the Packers active roster for the final 8 games last year and played in 4 games. He was a game day inactive the other four. He was on the practice saquad the first 8 games.

4 games and two tackles are under Dendy's belt, but he's a rookie to me, bud.

However, he was with the team the entire year last year, and practiced with the active 53 for a full half season. He is not near the neophyte that a true rookie is. He knows what is demanded of nfl players over the course of a full season, etc, etc. The speed of the game is not completely foreign to him.

There was all kind of complaining last year when Thomas was released too. Half said it should have been Carroll. Others made the same arguments about "demoting" him and keeping him around for ST and "just in case". All the Packer had was inexperienced players, etc. etc. etc. Little was already out at the time.

Instead, Horton ( a virtual rookie) played, Hawkins (a rookie) played, Dendy (a rookie) played, Underwood (a rookie) played. Those were the guys that came in for nickel and dime. Did anyone even miss Thomas?

[Harlan Huckleby]

i didn't see this posted elsewhere,

did Carroll sign anywhere yet?

[Bretsky]

i didn't see this posted elsewhere,

did Carroll sign anywhere yet?


Nobody claimed him; don't think he's signed anywhere yet.

[Freak Out]

"This was our plan? To bypass the other CBs on the roster and push a PS guy with Glenn Robinson syndrome into what amounts to our starting line-up? Can't wait to see how big Bulger's eyes are going to be Sun."

Could be another very long game on D this week. Bulger throwing and Big Jack ramming it down the Packers thoats. Get them to 3rd and blitz big!

[superfan]

With the tight coverage, ball deflection against the lions that Manuel returned for a TD.

I'd like to know the Vegas odds of Carroll deflecting a pass to Manuel returned for a TD. 1,000 to 1? Higher? Hard to conceive that happening in any scenario.

[FritzDontBlitz]

i can't believe this thread is still this popular, considering every poll taken by jso and other sites has 90% of packer fans in favor of canning carroll.

and the fact that such a brash, undisciplined and notoriously uncoachable player is so popular among his teammates makes me really question where the defense's heads are at. i have never played on a team where the guy getting you killed every week was considered popular. but i played back in an era where team and unselfishness ruled. oh well...

[mraynrand]

i have never played on a team where the guy getting you killed every week was considered popular.

That's because it's a new guy each week - Collins in week 2, Manuel in week 1 and almost week 3, Woodson in week 4 along with Carroll. Perhaps Carroll is the worst of the bunch, but maybe the reason they all are 'feeling Carroll's pain' so to speak, is that they know they've played just as badly in stretches and, if the same criteria resulting in Carroll being canned were applied to them, they'd be unemployed too.

[Rastak]

i have never played on a team where the guy getting you killed every week was considered popular.

That's because it's a new guy each week - Collins in week 2, Manuel in week 1 and almost week 3, Woodson in week 4 along with Carroll. Perhaps Carroll is the worst of the bunch, but maybe the reason they all are 'feeling Carroll's pain' so to speak, is that they know they've played just as badly in stretches and, if the same criteria resulting in Carroll being canned were applied to them, they'd be unemployed too.


Reminds me of an interview with Tony Iommi I saw. He was the lead guitar player for Black Sabbath. He indicated they all had severe drug problems so they picked the guy with the worst and fired him (Ozzy Osbourne)...they felt like they needed to do something. Man, I laughed my ass off when I heard him say that.....there has to abe a parallel to this situation somehow.

[KYPack]

Bush & Dendy have played ball before, but not in the NFL. These are the youngest of the young and this is like running out into rush hour traffic

You are only half right. Dendy was on the Packers active roster for the final 8 games last year and played in 4 games. He was a game day inactive the other four. He was on the practice saquad the first 8 games.

4 games and two tackles are under Dendy's belt, but he's a rookie to me, bud.

However, he was with the team the entire year last year, and practiced with the active 53 for a full half season. He is not near the neophyte that a true rookie is. He knows what is demanded of nfl players over the course of a full season, etc, etc. The speed of the game is not completely foreign to him.

There was all kind of complaining last year when Thomas was released too. Half said it should have been Carroll. Others made the same arguments about "demoting" him and keeping him around for ST and "just in case". All the Packer had was inexperienced players, etc. etc. etc. Little was already out at the time.

Instead, Horton ( a virtual rookie) played, Hawkins (a rookie) played, Dendy (a rookie) played, Underwood (a rookie) played. Those were the guys that came in for nickel and dime. Did anyone even miss Thomas?

It's probably point of view.

Hawthorne, Thomas, and Hawkins are 3 of the worst cover guys I've ever seen. I cheered when they wacked those guys.

Carroll had some potential. He actually made some strides in the second half last year, & I saw a turn around for his career. I was even tempted to make some bold posts about how he would make it happen this year, but I didn't gave the balls to actually post the information.

That's good, because that Mon nite in Philly was a debacle. That's as bad a game as you can have.

Now I am one of the guys wanting to demote him and keeping him around for ST and "just in case".

Yer probably right, but I can't see burning a # 1 pick. But we probably should. One point is that Carroll was not ready to go in, he didn't prepare himself and looked like a man drowning on the field.. I think he can play better than that if he prepares.

I'm done here, cutting him or benching HAD to take place, they picking the cut. They made a decision at least. let's see if Bush or Dendy have some skills. From what very little I've seen, they are way too green and totally unprepared for the league.

But so was Carroll Mon nite.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Carroll not getting claimed really surprises me. Usually when a first round pick, a guy with some obvious talent, gets blown out of somewhere, somebody gives me a shot. Well, maybe next year. When does Arena League get started?

[Brainerd]

Carroll not getting claimed really surprises me. Usually when a first round pick, a guy with some obvious talent, gets blown out of somewhere, somebody gives me a shot. Well, maybe next year. When does Arena League get started?
Doesn't suprise me too much. Someone may yet give him a shot even though he has zero ball skills. You're suppose to cover the man and play the ball. Its called football not footman.

[ahaha]

I'm surprised about this 'popularity with teamates' thing. I guess everybody is going to have a few friends. Remember that game in Carroll's rookie year where Roman threw a hissy fit at Carroll? I'm guessing Roman didn't think too highly of him as a teamate then. Or what about Joey Thomas? Fighting with a fellow DB outside the meeting room. That doesn't sound like the actions of a great teamate, and I think Thomas would agree.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Carroll not getting claimed really surprises me. Usually when a first round pick, a guy with some obvious talent, gets blown out of somewhere, somebody gives me a shot. Well, maybe next year. When does Arena League get started?

Am surprised to, maybe all the teams he's taunted are holding a grudge against him. :mrgreen:

[FritzDontBlitz]

I'm surprised about this 'popularity with teamates' thing. I guess everybody is going to have a few friends. Remember that game in Carroll's rookie year where Roman threw a hissy fit at Carroll? I'm guessing Roman didn't think too highly of him as a teamate then. Or what about Joey Thomas? Fighting with a fellow DB outside the meeting room. That doesn't sound like the actions of a great teamate, and I think Thomas would agree.

the thomas incident was particularly bad. according to reports joey thomas (3rd round pick in 2004) was mercilessly teasing carroll about being chosen as the starter only because he was a 1st round pick (which i agree was the case.) carroll got so pissed off that he attacked thomas - FROM BEHIND according to the stories.

[BooHoo]

Carroll not getting claimed really surprises me. Usually when a first round pick, a guy with some obvious talent, gets blown out of somewhere, somebody gives me a shot. Well, maybe next year. When does Arena League get started?

Am surprised to, maybe all the teams he's taunted are holding a grudge against him. :mrgreen:

He's had many penalities called against him. The word is probably out so no one wants to take the risk.

[Fosco33]

I saw this elsewhere but didn't see if it had been posted yet...

NFL career
• 34 Games played with the Green Bay Packers by cornerback Ahmad Carroll

• 28 Games in which Carroll started

• 33 Total penalty flags thrown against Carroll

• 26 Penalties called for coverage violations such as pass interference, illegal contact and holding

• 256 Penalty yards marched off as a result of his 24 infractions that weren't declined or offset by another penalty

• 11½ Touchdowns Carroll allowed in coverage

• 3 Interceptions by Carroll

• $1.8 million Remaining portion of the $3.95 million in guaranteed money Carroll received as a rookie that the Packers must count against their salary cap either this year or next

[OS PA]

The new article from JSO on Blackmon gives some hope to the fact that Thompson is shopping some draft picks for a Cornerback.

[woodbuck27]

Two other things of note in todays JSO edition:


Perceived as mouthy, immature and not nearly as good as he portrayed himself to be by many on the outside, cornerback Ahmad Carroll was nonetheless a popular player among many of his fellow defensive backs in the Green Bay Packers locker room.

Not really the sign of a guy with an attitude problem.


The player who stands to gain the most from Carroll's release for now is Patrick Dendy.

The 6-foot, 190-pounder out of Rice was promoted to the active roster on Wednesday and immediately stepped into the nickel with the No. 1 defense. He also saw some time in the slot, a spot that Charles Woodson has been holding down to date...

In regards to his ankle:

"It's going to be sore but it's not hurting me," he said.

This was our plan? To bypass the other CBs on the roster and push a PS guy with Glenn Robinson syndrome into what amounts to our starting line-up? Can't wait to see how big Bulger's eyes are going to be Sun.

There are no if's and's or but's here... on the Ahmad Carroll release.

Ted Thompson blew this one.

A terrible move to cut Ahmad Carroll with nothing to speak of as a bona fide backup.

Who backs up the Nickle spot starter Dendy, who isn't even good enough to be a backup on any other NFL Team?

What in "H" is TT thinking?

I'm not a :smile: camper / Packer fan.

[Patler]

Look at things a little more closely before you worry about who will replace Carroll.

He averaged more than a penalty a game, seemed to improve a bit the end of last year, but as a part time player this year in four games committed two penalties that were accepted and two that were declined.

He has been absolutely torched by even mediocre receivers this year. Maybe other DBs have been too, but so what? Just because others have been bad does not justify keeping Carroll. Maybe others should go too, but its not about "fairness" among players playing poorly, its about improving the team, and you do that one player at a time at this stage of the year.

Carroll has proven for 2+ seasons that he is incapable of making plays on the ball downfield, even when he has good position on the receiver. This was a big knock against him coming out of college and he has not improved at all. Teams have realized that you can throw at him EVEN WHEN HE IS IN GOOD POSITION, and you still have a strong liklihood of success, because he will not make a play on the ball and/or is likely to get a penalty.

As one commentator said this week, if Carroll had not been a 1st round pick he would have been cut already last year. His draft status and really good athletic ability kept him around this long, but that does not make him a competant NFL cornerback, nor one that the Packers should invest more time in.

I have done a complete 180 turn in my opinion about Carroll. I thought his play improved last year in the last 6 or 8 games. This year he showed that it hadn't. I'm not talking about mistakes in coverage, lining up, things like that for which you can sometimes blame coaching. He showed this year that most of the time he won't do anything in the passing game even when he is in position to do it. I strongly supported him last summer, but his performance the first four games this year has been very poor, and indicates that even in the individual skills area he has not changed at all since college.

He was a willing and capable tackler in rushing defense, but a nickel back who can't prevent pass completions has little value to the team.

[Tarlam!]

I have done a complete 180 turn in my opinion about Carroll. I thought his play improved last year in the last 6 or 8 games. This year he showed that it hadn't.(...)

This is exactly why I would NOT have cut the boy. Instead, I would have cut the guy responsible. Schottenheimer.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Here's what doesn't quite add-up for me:

From the first day of camp until October 2, the coaches hold that Carroll is the third best CB on the roster.

On October 2, Carroll is better than Patrick Dendy, Jarred Bush and Will Blackman. On October 3 he is worse than all three.

How could the coaches have been so wrong for so long? Or was it an over-reaction to cut him rather than move him down the depth chart?

[MJZiggy]

The difference is that the young players can be stashed on the practice squad. Carroll was not practice squad eligible.

[Patler]

Here's what doesn't quite add-up for me:

From the first day of camp until October 2, the coaches hold that Carroll is the third best CB on the roster.

On October 2, Carroll is better than Patrick Dendy, Jarred Bush and Will Blackman. On October 3 he is worse than all three.

How could the coaches have been so wrong for so long? Or was it an over-reaction to cut him rather than move him down the depth chart?

It is more likely that at the first day of the regular season, Carroll was the most suitable for the nickle spot, because Dendy had been hurt and out for a good portion of camp, Blackmon was hurt, Horton's time ran out and Hawkins faded away. This necessitated signing Bush, who needed a few weeks to learn the new defensive system. As Bush learned and Dendy healed they became legitimate options, and more importantly, Carroll did nothing to show that he was a better option than they were.

It is really no different than what happened to Joey Thomas last year. He went from being the nickel back one day to being unemployed the next day too, just like Carroll. He even started ahead of Carroll for one game. Did you miss Joey Thomas?

[Harlan Huckleby]

I suppose being eligible for PS is some advantage.

I think Carroll could function as both a 4th safety and 4th CB, and be better than the alternatives. I think the Coaches don't want Carroll for the future, and just got rid of him so they can develop the prospects more. A rebuilding year move.

[Harlan Huckleby]

It is really no different than what happened to Joey Thomas last year. He went from being the nickel back one day to being unemployed the next day too, just like Carroll. He even started ahead of Carroll for one game. Did you miss Joey Thomas?

I think Carroll will make it in the NFL. I suppose the situations are similar, but Carroll has significant NFL experience as a starter.

[Patler]

It is really no different than what happened to Joey Thomas last year. He went from being the nickel back one day to being unemployed the next day too, just like Carroll. He even started ahead of Carroll for one game. Did you miss Joey Thomas?

I think Carroll will make it in the NFL. I suppose the situations are similar, but Carroll has significant NFL experience as a starter.

There was a time not too long ago that I would have agreed with you. I'm not sure now. He likely will get a few more looks by other teams, but very well could be unemployed three years from now (at least by NFL teams).

[digitaldean]

Carroll has had interest from several teams, namely the Chiefs and the Patriots.

The Patriots are desparately thin at CB and may be willing to take the risk on him.

The Chiefs had him in for a workout.

Maybe Belichek can transform chicken salad out of chicken "you know". The articles I've read have scouts stating Carroll (in their estimation) needs a technique overhaul.

Whodda thunk it? :mrgreen:

[Patler]

The articles I've read have scouts stating Carroll (in their estimation) needs a technique overhaul.

Whodda thunk it? :mrgreen:

Isn't he 2.25 years into that technique overhaul?? :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

[MadtownPacker]

Maybe Belichek can transform chicken salad out of chicken "you know". The articles I've read have scouts stating Carroll (in their estimation) needs a technique overhaul.
Hmm, maybe that is their way of implying the DB coach sucks?

[pbmax]

The only explanation that fits is that Carroll was NOT in their long term plan. He was essentially on reverse PUP, he would Play Until People came back.

If Dendy and Bush are ready to be tested (a big if), then Carroll's status had more to do with his backups than his perfromance Monday night. His future was sealed, the only variable was his release date.

What is odd is, as Patler has stated, that Blackmon, especially after they didn't put him on normal PUP, was the candidate you would have wagered on to take his position. But he is still hurt.

So TT must really want to see the other two play. Carroll is a known, flawed asset. He wants to see how bad he needs another corner next year, and how soon his rent on Woodson will be up. TT apparently doesn't agree with KYPack that they cold be damaged by being exposed this early.

Its hard to bite the bullet of being even worse for the year, even if its for the long term good.

[Harlan Huckleby]

McGinn wrote a column on the Carroll move today. Maybe one of you rich guys with access can repost it? Thanks.

[Fosco33]

McGinn wrote a column on the Carroll move today. Maybe one of you rich guys with access can repost it? Thanks.

Where's B? Hungover from celebrating yesterday's easy W for UW :lol:

Edit - apparently Mr. Bretsky is one of the lucky few that gets to go to Camp Randall and Lambeau in one weekend. Bastard.

[KYPack]

McGinn wrote a column on the Carroll move today. Maybe one of you rich guys with access can repost it? Thanks.

McGinn's column is titled "Carroll Cutting was Premature"

& it was.

That was a knee jerk, panic move if I ever saw one.

I'll take HH's point. The guy couldn't go from #1 Nickle, # 1 Dime and back-up corner to gone in a matter of days. If you do that, you are admitting a big mistake someplace in your evaluation criteria.

This no big loss or anything, but we will eventually find ourselves short bc of this decision.

Hey, Carroll had a dogshit game, one of the worst I've ever seen, but we have needs beyond punishing the fool.

B-Man, publish that article after you recover, if you please.

[digitaldean]

Maybe Belichek can transform chicken salad out of chicken "you know". The articles I've read have scouts stating Carroll (in their estimation) needs a technique overhaul.
Hmm, maybe that is their way of implying the DB coach sucks?

Bingo! (and the Packers shouldn't have brought him back for another go-around to figure that one out)