How are cap hits determined?

[PTPaQ]

I understand that cap hits take effect in the following year or trading/cutting a player...but how is the amount of money determined?

Is it the amount of total Salary that player was suppose to make that year or the amount of the bonus?

Any help?

Thankyou,

[CyclonePackFan]

PTPaQ,

I'm not a cap guru, but I did do my share of research to defend a position to a (now banned) poster last summer. (If someone else finds a mistake, please feel free to correct me here)

A copy of the unofficial salary cap numbers may be found here:

http://members.cox.net/cappage/2006cap.htm

Ahmad Carroll is still listed as #15, since the site hasn't been updated today. As you can see, as of right now, Carroll counts $1,410,500 towards this year's cap number. That's set and done, nothing we can do about it. The important part of the page that concerns us right now is the figure on the far right, the remaining PRSB, or pro-rated signing bonus. This is the so-called "guaranteed money", and Carroll MUST be paid another $1,625,000 by the Packers over the next two years. Odds on the cap number will be probably around $500,000 next year and the remainder in the following year.

Here's the kicker, though. Since we're after June 1, we CAN charge Carroll's cap to next year. That doesn't mean we HAVE to. We're currently a little over $8,000,000 under the cap. We can still use this to sign Carroll's replacement, extend the contract of a player or two *cough*Ahman Green*cough* OR, if we so choose, use it to pay off a portion or all of Carroll's $1.625 million THIS YEAR.

Hope that clarifies things

[red]

its the remaining signing bonus hit, usually

lets say a guy signs a 5 year 50 million dollar deal with a 10 million dollar signing bonus

that bonus money is prorated of 5 years, or the maximum legth of the contract, whichever is lowest. he gets all the money right away, but the cap hit is spread out

so in this case he would have a prorted signing bonus cap hit of 2 million a year.

now lets say the guy gets cut after the first season

that means 8 million dollars of the PRSB whould hit that upcoming years cap. so the team would have a cap penalty of 8 million that year.

however, if a guy gets cut after june 1st, and now there is a new rule where a team can do this to a few players a year. the team only counts the portion that they were suppose to be hit with that upcoming season (2 million), and the remaining PRSB (6 million) would hit the following year

there are a few other ways to get a cap hit, like cutting an injured guy, like cledius

but the one i showed was the main one

does this help at all, or are you more confused? wheres patler?

[PTPaQ]

Great, thats exactly what I wanted to know.

Thx both of you.

(Holy hell we'd be screwed if we cut Kampman :shock: )

[Patler]

Great, thats exactly what I wanted to know.

Thx both of you.

(Holy hell we'd be screwed if we cut Kampman :shock: )

Carroll's cap number for this year should go down. He will receive only 4/17 of his 2006 salary of 511,000, since he is not a vested veteran. I think you have to be in your 5th season for your salary to be guaranteed after the final cutdown. I'm not sure, I will try and check it. Of course, as a first round pick he also could have some goofy clause of some sort in his contract.

[b bulldog]

Extend Green, your not serious, are you??

[Patler]

I checked the CBA. Carroll will not received his full 2006 salary. You have to have completed 4 years. From the CBA:

TERMINATION PAY PROVIDES A PARTIAL SALARY GUARANTEE

The Termination Pay benefit contained in the Collective Bargaining Agreement provides a guarantee of 100% of a player’s "Paragraph 5 salary" for an eligible player who has completed his fourth or more Credited Season in the NFL.

A player is eligible for termination pay if he is:
1) Released after his club’s first regular season game in September, and
2) He was on the club’s active/inactive list on or after the club’s first regular season game.

If a player is thereafter released during the regular season, the club must pay the unpaid balance of the player’s “Paragraph 5 salary.” A player is only entitled to termination pay once during his playing career in the NFL.

[retailguy]

This is the so-called "guaranteed money", and Carroll MUST be paid another $1,625,000 by the Packers over the next two years. Odds on the cap number will be probably around $500,000 next year and the remainder in the following year.



Good analysis, except for this... The entire 1.6 mil accelerates immediately once a player is waived. Since the termination happened after June 1, the cap hit is extended to next year.

I don't know if that is optional or not, but the 1.6 acceleration is immediate.

Patler?

[KYPack]

PTPaQ,

I'm not a cap guru, but I did do my share of research to defend a position to a (now banned) poster last summer. (If someone else finds a mistake, please feel free to correct me here)

A copy of the unofficial salary cap numbers may be found here:

http://members.cox.net/cappage/2006cap.htm

Ahmad Carroll is still listed as #15, since the site hasn't been updated today. As you can see, as of right now, Carroll counts $1,410,500 towards this year's cap number. That's set and done, nothing we can do about it. The important part of the page that concerns us right now is the figure on the far right, the remaining PRSB, or pro-rated signing bonus. This is the so-called "guaranteed money", and Carroll MUST be paid another $1,625,000 by the Packers over the next two years. Odds on the cap number will be probably around $500,000 next year and the remainder in the following year.

Here's the kicker, though. Since we're after June 1, we CAN charge Carroll's cap to next year. That doesn't mean we HAVE to. We're currently a little over $8,000,000 under the cap. We can still use this to sign Carroll's replacement, extend the contract of a player or two *cough*Ahman Green*cough* OR, if we so choose, use it to pay off a portion or all of Carroll's $1.625 million THIS YEAR.

Hope that clarifies things

We don't pay Carroll anything other than some form of termination pay.

The cap hit is charged to our salary cap #.

As posted it's $1,625,000. I thought when ya cut 'em, the PRSB hit the cap right away. In order to split it in half you have to wait until after the first of 07. That's why they cut all those guys in jan, March & June, to split the cap hit.

We're 8 over, so we may just eat it.

[Patler]

Let me try to clarify a few things.

March 1 is the "start" of the new year. Cuts at around that time are normally done to avoid roster bonuses that are due. If a player is released before June 1, the entire remaining unamortized bonuses (signing bonuses mainly) are due in that year. For example, Sharper and Wahle's remaining bonuses were accelerated against the 2005 cap, and they count nothing against 2006.

If a player is released after June 1, the team is responsible for the current year amount and any salaries due, but the accelerated siging bonus amount can be deferred to the following season. For example: Hunt, Luchey and Bragg were all released after June 1, 2005. One years worth of their bonuses counted against 2005, and the remaining accelerated bonus is counted against 2006.

The deferral was optional for cuts after June 1. The team could elect to take it all currently. I wasn't sure if that remained the case or not, but that seemed to be the case with Thomas. Even though he had a couple years left and was released after June 1, the Packers appear to have taken the entire hit last year. I don't see anything listed for this year.

This year's CBA renewal brought in a new wrinkle: Each team can designate two players to be released before June 1, but with the same effect as if they were released after June 1.

[CyclonePackFan]

Extend Green, your not serious, are you??

Sure, like it or not, he's still far and away our best RB on the roster. I wouldn't give him a long-term contract, but putting new two-year contract or so on this year's cap would prevent us winding up SOL in FA with only the draft and Morency to rely on...

[Harlan Huckleby]

Sure, like it or not, he's still far and away our best RB on the roster.

This is true. But I would really like to see Green & Morancy split carries this season. Even though Green is more valuable considering all aspects of the game, I won't be shocked if Morancy ends up with as good or better yards per carry. Just judging how the kid did in his first game. Morancy is gonna have the fresher legs.

[Patler]

Might be a good idea to wait and see if Green plays enough to get even another 75 carries yet this year before you consider renewing his contract.

[CyclonePackFan]

If a player is released after June 1, the team is responsible for the current year amount and any salaries due, but the accelerated siging bonus amount can be deferred to the following season. For example: Hunt, Luchey and Bragg were all released after June 1, 2005. One years worth of their bonuses counted against 2005, and the remaining accelerated bonus is counted against 2006.

I was just about to say this, thanks Patler.

As I understand it, since we're past June 1st, the remaining cap hit can be spread over the next two years, which is why I said $500,000 next year. However, I do agree with KY, given TT's propensity for avoiding future cap waste, I think we'll wind up eating it this year or, since it's ONLY 1.625 million (compared to Hunt's $3-some million), maybe eating it all next year.

Here's my source (not the CBA itself, for some reason it isn't loading for me):

http://www.askthecommish.com/salarycap/faq.asp

Note question 1.9b

[CyclonePackFan]

Might be a good idea to wait and see if Green plays enough to get even another 75 carries yet this year before you consider renewing his contract.

Naturally. He was really just the first player that came to my mind who is a FA at the end of the year, if he plays terrible or is too injured to perform, there's no reason to keep him. There are a couple others that probably deserve an extension (Wells and Jenkins, Raynor if he keeps banging them through, for example)

[Patler]

A bit of a different slant on bonus acceleration for players cut during the season:

"As a result of his release, the Packers, who are a little more than $7 million above the league salary cap, will have to take a $1.8 million hit. If Carroll is claimed on waivers, it will all count this year and if he isn't it will all count next year."

That explains Thomas last year.

[red]

If a player is released after June 1, the team is responsible for the current year amount and any salaries due, but the accelerated siging bonus amount can be deferred to the following season. For example: Hunt, Luchey and Bragg were all released after June 1, 2005. One years worth of their bonuses counted against 2005, and the remaining accelerated bonus is counted against 2006.

I was just about to say this, thanks Patler.

As I understand it, since we're past June 1st, the remaining cap hit can be spread over the next two years, which is why I said $500,000 next year. However, I do agree with KY, given TT's propensity for avoiding future cap waste, I think we'll wind up eating it this year or, since it's ONLY 1.625 million (compared to Hunt's $3-some million), maybe eating it all next year.

Here's my source (not the CBA itself, for some reason it isn't loading for me):

http://www.askthecommish.com/salarycap/faq.asp

Note question 1.9b

i don't think it would be over the next 2 years. he would keep his share of the hit this year, and the remainder next year

[KYPack]

A bit of a different slant on bonus acceleration for players cut during the season:

"As a result of his release, the Packers, who are a little more than $7 million above the league salary cap, will have to take a $1.8 million hit. If Carroll is claimed on waivers, it will all count this year and if he isn't it will all count next year."

That explains Thomas last year.

That's the difference between Patler and me. I'm familiar with the CBA and the cap rules. Patler's got the facts wired into his nervous system or something.

Hey man, what explains Thomas last year?
What happened did his stuff hit the cap right away because he was claimed?

One other point.

This roster turn-over and losin' really distorts your memory and sense of time. Doesn't it seem that Hunt, Luchey and Bragg played for Curly Lambeau or something?

[Patler]

Hey man, what explains Thomas last year?
What happened did his stuff hit the cap right away because he was claimed?

One other point.

This roster turn-over and losin' really distorts your memory and sense of time. Doesn't it seem that Hunt, Luchey and Bragg played for Curly Lambeau or something?

All of Thomas' accelerated signing bonus counted against the 2005 cap because he was claimed off waivers.

Your wrong about Hunt, Luchey and Bragg, they played for Lombardi as I recall. Favre and Hendersons were rookies under Lambeau.
:mrgreen: :lol: