Coaching Staff & GM

[Packnut]

When does the coaching staff and GM become accountable? Carroll gets cut yet Sanders and that idiot DB coach stay. I sure did'nt see Payton and the Saints have 10 men on the field. I don't see their D letting players go uncovered in the secondary. Why is it only happening to us?

Well may-be by the end of the season, many of you TT supporters will open your eyes and see that this guy has DESTROYED this franchise. He makes Dan Devine look smart. Let's see now, how many mistakes has he made with player moves?

Every week it's the same line from MM- "we gotts get it fixed". He does'nt have a clue. Sherman was a much better coach than this clown will ever be and I never thought I'd say that.

TT states he hired MM because of the man and not the x's and o's. Gee, does'nt that tell you something about him? Well at least he's honest cause MM does'nt know shit about x's and o's on either side of the ball. I sure hope someone informs him that it's ok to play with 11 men on D.......

[gbpackfan]

If the team doesn't show more towards the end of this year and into next year, I will call for TT's head. Until then, we are rebuilding. Every team goes through it.

[CaptainKickass]

Tell us how you really feel man.

I mean - don't hold back.

I detect a hint of angst in your post - no?

:crazy:

[Bretsky]

Behind the Doors MM should and may be laying it to Sanders and the Secondary Fraud Schottenheimer. We don't know that.

We can complain all we want, but the bottom line is there is no way an assistant coach gets let go before the end of the season.

Sends just too bad of a message to future prospective coaches IMO

[The Shadow]

"....Well may-be by the end of the season, many of you TT supporters will open your eyes and see that this guy has DESTROYED this franchise."


The franchise was in steep decline when Thompson took over.
He is rebuilding.
It will take time.
Ranting, raving, and holding your breath till you turn blue to show the Packers (and us) how angry & frustrated you are is awfully silly, and will not alter well-reasoned opinions of knowledgeable fans.
My eyes are wide open; I think Thompson is going about building a contender the right way, and he has my support. If the team does not show progress over a reasonable amount of time, that's another story.
But for now, deal with it.

[mraynrand]

I hope there's something going on behind the scenes that we don't know about, otherwise this coaching staff and GM look like a bunch of fools. Cutting Carroll without looking at film, saying Collins might have failed to provide proper help over the top on the 43 yard TD, having Woodson blow the man coverage leading to the other Lewis TD, and having Collins be directly responsible for about 21 points against N.O. AND NOT GET CUT tells you that the GM and coach are using questionable and inconsistent criteria to make huge decisions.

[Brando19]

I have to agree with Packnut. I don't blame MM, simply because this is his first time as head coach. TT is the one who hired the coaching staff. I really believe TT is a cancer in the organization. He's slowly destroying it from the inside out. I believe all TT lives for is hearing his name mentioned on draft day for having the most players taken. By the way, is he gay (Serious question)?

[Joemailman]

The hiring of Schottenheimer was probably a mistake and one that will probably be corrected in the off-season, unless Schottenheimer can turn things around. The release of Carroll is, in part, meant to send a message to everyone involved with the secondary that the current situation will not be tolerated. People can rant and vent all they want, but there usually are growing pains with a new coach. What Payton is doing in New Orleans so far is the exception, not the rule.

Try to keep things in prespective. Holmgren and Sherman both got off to poor starts before rallying in December. The same could very well happen here. Also, keep in mind that the 3 teams the Packers have lost to are a combined 11-1. It's not like they're losing games to Houston and San Francisco.

To Brando: You and Tank are the only 2 people who care whether TT is gay. Tank's not here any more so I don't know who's going to answer your "serious question". I won't venture a guess as to why you want to know in the first place.

[Brando19]

The hiring of Schottenheimer was probably a mistake and one that will probably be corrected in the off-season, unless Schottenheimer can turn things around. The release of Carroll is, in part, meant to send a message to everyone involved with the secondary that the current situation will not be tolerated. People can rant and vent all they want, but there usually are growing pains with a new coach. What Payton is doing in New Orleans so far is the exception, not the rule.

Try to keep things in prespective. Holmgren and Sherman both got off to poor starts before rallying in December. The same could very well happen here. Also, keep in mind that the 3 teams the Packers have lost to are a combined 11-1. It's not like they're losing games to Houston and San Francisco.

To Brando: You and Tank are the only 2 people who care whether TT is gay. Tank's not here any more so I don't know who's going to answer your "serious question". I won't venture a guess as to why you want to know in the first place.

Joemailman,
Maybe that's a dumb, irrelevant question. You telling me you've never had a dumb question before? HA. ANNYWAY...He's never been married so I was just wondering. Every NFL players life is in the spotlight...what's wrong with his?

[FavreChild]

When does the coaching staff and GM become accountable? Carroll gets cut yet Sanders and that idiot DB coach stay.

Agree - yet just like any other industry, management is going to blame underlings for shortcomings. Thus, Sanders and Schotty are safe for at least three more months. It's the corporate way.

Not to defend Carroll, but this just reeks of scapegoating. Sorry, but when reasonably intelligent man can't grasp the scheme after an entire preseason AND four regular season games - necessitating cheat sheets - something is wrong with the coaching. TT and his coaching staff all seem way too determined to impress the world with their "genius" - what a bunch of egocentric, ineffective CRAP.

[ahaha]

Not to defend Carroll, but this just reeks of scapegoating. Sorry, but when reasonably intelligent man can't grasp the scheme after an entire preseason AND four regular season games - necessitating cheat sheets - something is wrong with the coaching. TT and his coaching staff all seem way too determined to impress the world with their "genius" - what a bunch of egocentric, ineffective CRAP.

There's no benefit for them to have a scapegoat in this situation. It's way too early in the season. If it was game fourteen or fifteen this idea might have some merit, because the D-coaches could hope for a semi-decent performance in the last game or two. Then they could use Carroll as a "scapegoat" and say he had been the problem. They could then hope that the top brass buys that, and they get to keep their jobs for one more year.
This decision to drop Carroll is all about him being a bad player, probably with a bad attitude.

[NewsBruin]

The release of Carroll is, in part, meant to send a message to everyone involved with the secondary that the current situation will not be tolerated.

See, I've read this a lot, but wouldn't a less-than-interested loner like Charles Woodson say, "Shit, man, one less person to push against in practice. This team really NEEDS me now."

I think cutting Carrol has an effect on younger players, both as warning and perceived opportunity, but I don't know if it's striking fear in our established guys.

[the_idle_threat]

Who knows? The Shadow knows!

[cpk1994]

Every week it's the same line from MM- "we gotts get it fixed". He does'nt have a clue. Sherman was a much better coach than this clown will ever be and I never thought I'd say that.

MM is a clown? So, by your logic, what would that make Jimmy Johnson after he went 1-15 in his first year as HC?

[Packnut]

If the team doesn't show more towards the end of this year and into next year, I will call for TT's head. Until then, we are rebuilding. Every team goes through it.


Like I said, The Saints are not having the same problems. Their D is'nt anymore talented than ours. The difference is THEY have the right HC and HE picked the right coaches.

[Packnut]

Every week it's the same line from MM- "we gotts get it fixed". He does'nt have a clue. Sherman was a much better coach than this clown will ever be and I never thought I'd say that.

MM is a clown? So, by your logic, what would that make Jimmy Johnson after he went 1-15 in his first year as HC?


At least JJ knew how to put 11 guys on the field.......

[Packnut]

One more point. Before the season started, we ALL thought theLB's would be our strength, but in reality they have been horrible. There is talent there, but there is no coaching. Anyone else notice our LB's are rarely in the right place to make a play? Our coaching staff is terrible period. But hey, I guess GB has become the on the job training team in the NFL.........

[wist43]

One more point. Before the season started, we ALL thought theLB's would be our strength, but in reality they have been horrible. There is talent there, but there is no coaching. Anyone else notice our LB's are rarely in the right place to make a play? Our coaching staff is terrible period. But hey, I guess GB has become the on the job training team in the NFL.........

I would expect the LB's to get better as we go along - except Barnett, he's almost always out of position and doesn't have the excuse of being a rookie.

Hawk and Poppinga are young and inexperienced... they'll get better.

As for the coaches? Moss is respected as a LB coach, but Schottenheimer is clearly a disaster, and the jury is still out on Sanders... Schottenheimer should be gone at the end of the season, but ya never know.

As long as Schottenheimer is there, the entire defense is going to suffer... beat reporters are reporting that the players don't respect or listen to him.

[Partial]

beat reporters are reporting that the players don't respect or listen to him.

I don't doubt you, I would just like to see that. Source?

[wist43]

beat reporters are reporting that the players don't respect or listen to him.

I don't doubt you, I would just like to see that. Source?

Havel was talking about it on WSSP... Havel knows football, and he's in the locker room a lot. I have a reasonable amount of respect for Havel.

[Partial]

beat reporters are reporting that the players don't respect or listen to him.

I don't doubt you, I would just like to see that. Source?

Havel was talking about it on WSSP... Havel knows football, and he's in the locker room a lot. I have a reasonable amount of respect for Havel.

Cool, I never heard this before. That's actually reassuring. That means he will be gone at the end of the year.

[swede]

beat reporters are reporting that the players don't respect or listen to him.

I don't doubt you, I would just like to see that. Source?

Havel was talking about it on WSSP... Havel knows football, and he's in the locker room a lot. I have a reasonable amount of respect for Havel.

And I believe this is the reason that Al Harris, like Mike McKenzie before him, wants out of Green Bay. It sucks to have an idiot for a boss.

[Merlin]

Anyone who says that the Packer's need to "rebuild" clearly doesn't understand free agency, this includes Ted Thompson. You don't rebuild anymore, you reload each year. We are truly rebuilding with the youngest team in the NFL with the second most rookies on the roster and 7 Million in our pockets. One thing I cannot fault Sherman for, he was always looking to find a good free agent to get them over the hump. He didn't draft the greatest, but at least he put competative teams on the field. This whole idea of going younger is going to backfire. Now bare with me here for a second. Say for instance that we pull out a 8-8 season this year and say 10-6 with a playoff appearance next year. Say many of these rookies and younger players step up. How many can you resign down the road? If they are no longer younger players and good NFL vets, you will be in the same boat we were in a few years ago. With that said, TT is turning us into a farm team. MLB already has the Milwaukee Brewers for their farm team, the NFL will have Green Bay. We develop them, they become names with the Packer's, we can't afford to keep them all, they go elsewhere.

This IS a reality. We don't need a team of probowlers to be successful. But we do need experience to be successful. As soon as these younger players get experience and their contracts are up, good luck keeping them all. TT has already proven that he is into "his guys". If you aren't one of them you stand a better chance to be let go. That is a fact. Ahmad Carrol will go onto a successful career some place where they have an actual defensive backs coach. Shottenheimer is our problem. Sanders is doing a good job as far as I am concerned. We are in the right packages when we need to be, the pass defense execution sucks, and bad. We were #25 against the pass the last time Shottenheimer was here. We were #1 last year under Lionel Wachington and even though it was probably a little overrated, it wasn't near #25 in reality. This year we are #31 currently. What's the difference? SHOTTENHEIMER!

TT needs to fire Shottenheimer and promote Washington IMMEDIATELY. Letting Carrol go was a mistake, he had too much raw talent. Bench him, don't get rid of him, he was a scape goat. The real problem is with coaching and I cannot believe TT and McCarthy were both too stupid to see the pattern.

As far as McCarthy goes, I like what I see in him. He gets on players, even Favre and it is making a difference. He just needs to be able to pick a coaching staff and that will be his downfall.

I for one don't want to wait 20 years before this team is competative again. We had 11 rookies last year on the roster and something like 15 this year. Next year it will be what, 19?

Someone needs to have the balls to tell TT that his building through the draft theory is all fine and good but you need to have experience if you want to keep selling tickets and merchandise...

[MJZiggy]

Merlin, you make some good points and I'm sure Patler will come on and tell me I have this all wrong...but I'm pretty sure that TT has the contracts staggered somewhat. I mean Hawk's contract is for 6 years, right? And when Spitz/Colledge/Moll contracts come up, we should have the resources to take care of them and if he sees a log jam ahead, TT may just get someone done a year early and let the team know he's doing it to reward the extra talent and effort put in by said player (Jennings, perhaps?). If he likes his additions, then he will put in the extra effort that it will take to keep the ones he likes most--and he is such a fan of drafting, Idon't know that he gives up too many opportunities to put kids on the team when he can.

I like McCarthy as well and I don't think it will be 20 years before we see a decent team here. And Schott needs to go.

[Partial]

Merlin, you make some good points and I'm sure Patler will come on and tell me I have this all wrong...but I'm pretty sure that TT has the contracts staggered somewhat. I mean Hawk's contract is for 6 years, right? And when Spitz/Colledge/Moll contracts come up, we should have the resources to take care of them and if he sees a log jam ahead, TT may just get someone done a year early and let the team know he's doing it to reward the extra talent and effort put in by said player (Jennings, perhaps?). If he likes his additions, then he will put in the extra effort that it will take to keep the ones he likes most--and he is such a fan of drafting, Idon't know that he gives up too many opportunities to put kids on the team when he can.

I like McCarthy as well and I don't think it will be 20 years before we see a decent team here. And Schott needs to go.

I think if they go for a guy like Calvin Johnson in the draft next year, that'll be a pick for the future. If they go for an RB, thats a pick for the present and if Favre comes back, I have a hunch they'll be pretty damn good!

[Packnut]

Anyone who says that the Packer's need to "rebuild" clearly doesn't understand free agency, this includes Ted Thompson. You don't rebuild anymore, you reload each year. We are truly rebuilding with the youngest team in the NFL with the second most rookies on the roster and 7 Million in our pockets. One thing I cannot fault Sherman for, he was always looking to find a good free agent to get them over the hump. He didn't draft the greatest, but at least he put competative teams on the field. This whole idea of going younger is going to backfire. Now bare with me here for a second. Say for instance that we pull out a 8-8 season this year and say 10-6 with a playoff appearance next year. Say many of these rookies and younger players step up. How many can you resign down the road? If they are no longer younger players and good NFL vets, you will be in the same boat we were in a few years ago. With that said, TT is turning us into a farm team. MLB already has the Milwaukee Brewers for their farm team, the NFL will have Green Bay. We develop them, they become names with the Packer's, we can't afford to keep them all, they go elsewhere.

This IS a reality. We don't need a team of probowlers to be successful. But we do need experience to be successful. As soon as these younger players get experience and their contracts are up, good luck keeping them all. TT has already proven that he is into "his guys". If you aren't one of them you stand a better chance to be let go. That is a fact. Ahmad Carrol will go onto a successful career some place where they have an actual defensive backs coach. Shottenheimer is our problem. Sanders is doing a good job as far as I am concerned. We are in the right packages when we need to be, the pass defense execution sucks, and bad. We were #25 against the pass the last time Shottenheimer was here. We were #1 last year under Lionel Wachington and even though it was probably a little overrated, it wasn't near #25 in reality. This year we are #31 currently. What's the difference? SHOTTENHEIMER!

TT needs to fire Shottenheimer and promote Washington IMMEDIATELY. Letting Carrol go was a mistake, he had too much raw talent. Bench him, don't get rid of him, he was a scape goat. The real problem is with coaching and I cannot believe TT and McCarthy were both too stupid to see the pattern.

As far as McCarthy goes, I like what I see in him. He gets on players, even Favre and it is making a difference. He just needs to be able to pick a coaching staff and that will be his downfall.

I for one don't want to wait 20 years before this team is competative again. We had 11 rookies last year on the roster and something like 15 this year. Next year it will be what, 19?

Someone needs to have the balls to tell TT that his building through the draft theory is all fine and good but you need to have experience if you want to keep selling tickets and merchandise...


I wish more fans could comprehend what you've posted. To many here have this blind opinion that rebuilding is ok and as I keep saying, GM's get paid to make a difference NOW. Anyone can field a lousy team and stockpile draft choices. Good GM's re-load not re-build. The only point I dis-agree on is MM. He's the guy in charge and when not once but twice, you only have 10 men on the field, you have to be held accountable. He's the one who hires the coaches and he need's to be held responsible for that.

Cleaning house and going young has been tried before and it does'nt work. You need the right mix of vets and we have a GM that sucks at player evaluation. Yep, Manuel was a real good pick-up and Woodson sure is worth all that cash. Yet, some will say TT is going in the right direction.

There are several of the younger fans in this forum who have no concept of the 70's and 80's and sadly they are going to find out. They will understand how one bad choice has a snowball effect. I just don't see this "future hope" that they have. This team has so many holes, that it's just pathetic......

[Partial]

Anyone who says that the Packer's need to "rebuild" clearly doesn't understand free agency, this includes Ted Thompson. You don't rebuild anymore, you reload each year. We are truly rebuilding with the youngest team in the NFL with the second most rookies on the roster and 7 Million in our pockets. One thing I cannot fault Sherman for, he was always looking to find a good free agent to get them over the hump. He didn't draft the greatest, but at least he put competative teams on the field. This whole idea of going younger is going to backfire. Now bare with me here for a second. Say for instance that we pull out a 8-8 season this year and say 10-6 with a playoff appearance next year. Say many of these rookies and younger players step up. How many can you resign down the road? If they are no longer younger players and good NFL vets, you will be in the same boat we were in a few years ago. With that said, TT is turning us into a farm team. MLB already has the Milwaukee Brewers for their farm team, the NFL will have Green Bay. We develop them, they become names with the Packer's, we can't afford to keep them all, they go elsewhere.

This IS a reality. We don't need a team of probowlers to be successful. But we do need experience to be successful. As soon as these younger players get experience and their contracts are up, good luck keeping them all. TT has already proven that he is into "his guys". If you aren't one of them you stand a better chance to be let go. That is a fact. Ahmad Carrol will go onto a successful career some place where they have an actual defensive backs coach. Shottenheimer is our problem. Sanders is doing a good job as far as I am concerned. We are in the right packages when we need to be, the pass defense execution sucks, and bad. We were #25 against the pass the last time Shottenheimer was here. We were #1 last year under Lionel Wachington and even though it was probably a little overrated, it wasn't near #25 in reality. This year we are #31 currently. What's the difference? SHOTTENHEIMER!

TT needs to fire Shottenheimer and promote Washington IMMEDIATELY. Letting Carrol go was a mistake, he had too much raw talent. Bench him, don't get rid of him, he was a scape goat. The real problem is with coaching and I cannot believe TT and McCarthy were both too stupid to see the pattern.

As far as McCarthy goes, I like what I see in him. He gets on players, even Favre and it is making a difference. He just needs to be able to pick a coaching staff and that will be his downfall.

I for one don't want to wait 20 years before this team is competative again. We had 11 rookies last year on the roster and something like 15 this year. Next year it will be what, 19?

Someone needs to have the balls to tell TT that his building through the draft theory is all fine and good but you need to have experience if you want to keep selling tickets and merchandise...

I agree with this almost 100%. I've been sayin' all along by the time the kids are ballas their contracts are going to need to be extended for the big bucks.

[pbmax]

TT needs to fire Shottenheimer and promote Washington IMMEDIATELY. Letting Carrol go was a mistake, he had too much raw talent.
To follow your line of reasoning, we sould fire Washington too. Carrol stagnated under Washington and his only year showing upside, was with Joe Baker.

Do you have specific information that Washington makes the cornerback's better? How can you possibly know?

[pbmax]

Anyone who says that the Packer's need to "rebuild" clearly doesn't understand free agency, this includes Ted Thompson. You don't rebuild anymore, you reload each year.
Green Bay, Philadelphia, New England, Seattle, Carolina, Indianapolis, Jacksonville. Teams that have had successful runs without spending a vast amount of money on pricey FAs.

Washington, Dallas, Cardinals, Jets, Minnesota, Detroit, Giants. Teams that have been less than stellar despite sending vast sums of money on FAs. Edit, skip the Detroit reference, they probably haven't spent as much as the others on this list.

There is no correlation between the amount of money you spend in FA and success. It might be inversely proportional, since it indicates an inability to develop your own talent.

Denver is the only exception I can think of. And even Denver has gone to more value recently (see Walker, and the entire Cleveland Browns D Line).

Free Agency is not the same as it was when Reggie White was available, or the Cowboys and Niners sunk to cap hell due to cap mismanagement.

Teams are much better at letting their problems go rather than signing them long term. That allows them to keep their best. It is much easier to establish value on your roster than with draft picks and teams are making fewer mistakes. Witness the near absence of significant June 1 cap cuts.

Players available in FA now are much more likely to carry baggage, injuries or a lack of production.

[Merlin]

TT needs to fire Shottenheimer and promote Washington IMMEDIATELY. Letting Carrol go was a mistake, he had too much raw talent.
To follow your line of reasoning, we sould fire Washington too. Carrol stagnated under Washington and his only year showing upside, was with Joe Baker.

Do you have specific information that Washington makes the cornerback's better? How can you possibly know?

I don't have the direct links to the articles from last year. I do know that Washington spent a lot of time with Carrol & Thomas specifically and the secondary in part last year teaching them proper technique. The players respect him. His role somehow isn't the same this year. If it was, then Carrol would have been better then last year, not worse. Last year he played pretty good with the exception of "some" of his penalties. All of a sudden this year he regresses?

In the game the other night, Al Harris got called for illegal hands to the face. Carrol got that a lot in 2005. Did anyone see what the WR did? He dropped his head into Harris' hands. That rule needs to take that into account because the WR's know the ref is going to call that and there is no way you can fault the DB for a WR intetionally causing the hands to the face. That takes "bump and run" coverage out of the NFL if they continue to call it that way.

[Merlin]

Anyone who says that the Packer's need to "rebuild" clearly doesn't understand free agency, this includes Ted Thompson. You don't rebuild anymore, you reload each year.
Green Bay, Philadelphia, New England, Seattle, Carolina, Indianapolis, Jacksonville. Teams that have had successful runs without spending a vast amount of money on pricey FAs.

Washington, Dallas, Cardinals, Jets, Minnesota, Detroit, Giants. Teams that have been less than stellar despite sending vast sums of money on FAs. Edit, skip the Detroit reference, they probably haven't spent as much as the others on this list.

There is no correlation between the amount of money you spend in FA and success. It might be inversely proportional, since it indicates an inability to develop your own talent.

Denver is the only exception I can think of. And even Denver has gone to more value recently (see Walker, and the entire Cleveland Browns D Line).

Free Agency is not the same as it was when Reggie White was available, or the Cowboys and Niners sunk to cap hell due to cap mismanagement.

Teams are much better at letting their problems go rather than signing them long term. That allows them to keep their best. It is much easier to establish value on your roster than with draft picks and teams are making fewer mistakes. Witness the near absence of significant June 1 cap cuts.

Players available in FA now are much more likely to carry baggage, injuries or a lack of production.

I didn't say drop a fortune in FA. But you need to pick up viable veterans. Like I said, you don't need probowlers (and god knows you don't need career backup caliber vets like TT signs), you need experience. Having 7 million in our pockets doesn't get us anything. There were and are players out there who he could have brought in to see if they were a missing piece to the puzzle. He didn't even attempt to do so. So instead of going after something like that, he picks up Koren Robinson because he drafted him in Seattle. I don't think it was a bad pick up but open your eyes for a second, he didn't even bother to sign any other WR or KR for competition sake. Face it, if you aren't one of TT's boys your days are numbered. Harris' contract isn't reworked and with the way Woodson & Manual are playing, Harris should be paid more. Barnett's contract should be in the works right now, it isn't.

TT isn't building for the future, he is building a farm team. Even though the contracts may be somewhat staggered, players are going to hold out (ala Walker) and demand trades. It's part of the business. Who will TT replace them with then? More Draft picks? Seattle's cast offs? More career backups? Woodson should be moved to safety because he just doesn't have it anymore to be a CB. Manual & Woodson both were not upgrades, they aren't even stop gaps. Manual was the worse of the two because he played good in what? A handful of games in Seattle? Roman got torched as much in one season as Manual has been torched in 4 games. Even though Roman should not have been a starter, there is a reason Manual wasn't either and now he's our overpaid problem.