Robinson fires shot across the bow

[Rastak]

Not very smart. It seems to me both Robinson and the Vikings were both taking the high road after his criminal actions this summer. Minnesota had written into his contract that he must pay back his roster bonus should he go back to getting hammered and drving. The new CBA prohibits going after his SIGNING bonus, but not a roster bonus. This was discussed at length this summer with there being no clear opinion on who might win that case. There was also discussion on weather Koren could claim the Vikings released him as a punitive measure. Teams can cut players for performance and for "Personal conduct which, in the reasonable judgment of the club, adversely affects or reflects on the club.". I think any rational human would say he violated that clause. So why would he pull this stunt, the day after he avoids immediate jail time? Either he is classless or his agent is classless or both. They didn't file immediately because he looked like an idiot after the incident. I got news for his agent, he still does.
I don't know if he'll win this battle, I doubt it but this guy never ceases to amaze me.






Released receiver wants his salary
Robinson, NFLPA file grievance
BY SEAN JENSEN
Pioneer Press
Former Vikings receiver Koren Robinson has filed a grievance against the team seeking a significant portion of the three-year, $12.7 million contract he signed in March.

Attorney David Cornwell of DNK Cornwell said he and the NFL Players Association filed the non-injury grievance last week and are awaiting a response from the NFL.

Under terms of the collective bargaining agreement, the NFL has seven days from the date the grievance was filed to respond.

An NFL spokesman declined comment, but an NFLPA spokesman confirmed the grievance was filed Sept. 27. If the rules stipulate seven business days, the NFL's response should come today.

"There are a collection of reasons," Cornwell said when asked why Robinson filed the grievance. "But the thrust of it was, his release was a punitive act, undertaken in violation of the collective bargaining agreement. The team punished him by waiving him for his arrest, and Koren's conduct is subject to discipline, if appropriate, under the NFL's personal conduct penalty.

"So the Vikings invaded the exclusive jurisdiction of the commissioner."

A Vikings spokesman declined comment.

In early March, Robinson signed a unique three-year, $12.7 million contract. Robinson received an immediate $1 million roster bonus, as well as a $100,000 workout bonus. Then, in addition to his $600,000 base salary, Robinson could earn an additional $81,250 for every game he was on the roster, even if he was injured.

The Vikings structured Robinson's deal to protect themselves given his previous track record with substance abuse-related incidents and suspensions.

Robinson was arrested Aug. 15 after a high-speed car chase that ended near the Minnesota State University Mankato campus, where the team holds training camp, and he was charged the next day with a felony count of fleeing a police officer, two misdemeanor charges of fourth-degree driving while impaired, and misdemeanor charges of reckless driving, careless driving and driving after his North Carolina license was suspended.

The Vikings released him 11 days later.

Cornwell said the Vikings cited two reasons in the notice of termination: "In the judgment of the club, your skill or performance has been unsatisfactory as compared with that of other players competing for positions on the club's roster." And, "You have engaged in personal conduct which, in the reasonable judgment of the club, adversely affects or reflects on the club."

"We believe it's a difficult decision to justify even on skill and conduct, based on comments the club made on Koren's significance to the team," Cornwell said. "Our view is, they simply were punishing him."

Cornwell would not comment on how much of the remaining $11.6 million Robinson is seeking.

But when asked if Robinson was seeking a significant portion, Cornwell said, "Yes."

He declined further comment.

Cornwell said if they cannot meet and resolve the matter with the NFL, then an arbitrator will make a decision. Given the timing of the grievance, the matter might not be resolved until the spring.

[jack's smirking revenge]

Given all the craziness in Robinson's world, I don't know if I'd pin the drive to get salary back on him. He's got a lot of people to pay--his attorney and his agent are/were probably expecting good bank from his Vikes payday. I'm not defending Robinson, but I'm skeptical that this is his idea. His attorney and agent could be behind this to collect their losses from his Vikes contract.

tyler

[jack's smirking revenge]

Notice that he didn't comment on the situation. His attorney did. Also, with him scheduled for jail time and possibly more problems in MN, they're probably worried about getting nothing out of Robinson.

tyler

[MJZiggy]

The grievance was dated the 27th, so that means it was done last week. I wonder if it was timed in case he got immediate jail and couldn't play out this season... :neutral:

[GBRulz]

Whether it was the decision of his attorney or agent, Robinson still has the final say in the matter.

[jack's smirking revenge]

Whether it was the decision of his attorney or agent, Robinson still has the final say in the matter.

How do you know that? Have you seen his contract? If he signed a contract where he owes his attorney and agent a hefty percentage on his multi-million dollar contract, he may not have much of a choice. Either way, he owes them money. That debt doesn't go away. They could go after it in court, or they could go after it from the Vikings. If you were Robinson, which one would you prefer? Legal or former team? Either way, its ugly.

Try having a laywer that you can't pay because of new financial circumstances. It's worse than being broke.

tyler

[GBRulz]

Whether it was the decision of his attorney or agent, Robinson still has the final say in the matter.

How do you know that? Have you seen his contract? If he signed a contract where he owes his attorney and agent a hefty percentage on his multi-million dollar contract, he may not have much of a choice. Either way, he owes them money. That debt doesn't go away. They could go after it in court, or they could go after it from the Vikings. If you were Robinson, which one would you prefer? Legal or former team? Either way, its ugly.

Try having a laywer that you can't pay because of new financial circumstances. It's worse than being broke.

tyler

I didn't think of the part of him owing his agent for his portion of the contract. I was looking at it from basically just attorney fees, which I'm sure the guy has the money for. It's not like it's his first year in the league. I can see what you're saying now.

But, we also don't know what kind of agreement KRob has, as far as the agent only getting the money if he played out the contract or what. So, you don't know that part of it, either. There are alot of things we don't know about it and it's just alot of speculation.

[Green Bud Packer]

korens lawyers probably feel it's worth the shot to recoup some cash. let a judge read his contract and make a decision. it's the american way. i won't rip robinson for this one although i don't have an agenda. the vikes still aren't over gilbert and now they just lost a #1 reciever to a division foe.boo hoo. get over it and let the man get on with his life.

[Rastak]

korens lawyers probably feel it's worth the shot to recoup some cash. let a judge read his contract and make a decision. it's the american way. i won't rip robinson for this one although i don't have an agenda. the vikes still aren't over gilbert and now they just lost a #1 reciever to a division foe.boo hoo. get over it and let the man get on with his life.


No, what he's done is open himself up their recovering his roster bonus and then it'll be boo hoo hoo from him. Stupid move or at least a gamble.

[jack's smirking revenge]

Whether it was the decision of his attorney or agent, Robinson still has the final say in the matter.

How do you know that? Have you seen his contract? If he signed a contract where he owes his attorney and agent a hefty percentage on his multi-million dollar contract, he may not have much of a choice. Either way, he owes them money. That debt doesn't go away. They could go after it in court, or they could go after it from the Vikings. If you were Robinson, which one would you prefer? Legal or former team? Either way, its ugly.

Try having a laywer that you can't pay because of new financial circumstances. It's worse than being broke.

tyler

I didn't think of the part of him owing his agent for his portion of the contract. I was looking at it from basically just attorney fees, which I'm sure the guy has the money for. It's not like it's his first year in the league. I can see what you're saying now.

But, we also don't know what kind of agreement KRob has, as far as the agent only getting the money if he played out the contract or what. So, you don't know that part of it, either. There are alot of things we don't know about it and it's just alot of speculation.

You're right; I don't know for sure. It just seems fishy to me. Here's a guy that's definitely been beaten up by the law (with good reason). He's a sinking ship. He's serving jail time after the season. Possibly could be serving jail time from his MN problems. But he also signed a $12mil contract last season and attorneys and agents get paid from that contract.

If his attorney and agent didn't make arrangements with K-Rob at the front part of the contract settlement, then they're the dumbest in the league. They have to protect themselves from player injury and player stupidity (as in KRob's case). They're businesses too. I'm pretty sure agents work on a percentage of total contract, so his agent is now out quite a bit of cash... His attys are probably too as they were most likely committed a retainer by KRob.

You're right in that it's ultimately K-Rob's decision, but it may be a silent decision, where no option is a good one from where he's sitting.

tyler

[Harlan Huckleby]

Either he is classless or his agent is classless or both. They didn't file immediately because he looked like an idiot after the incident.

Rastak, I don't see how "classless" comes into play with a legal maneuver. It's just lawyer crap, trying to get more money, the American way as someone else said. Maybe I didn't read closely enough, but I didn't see any betrayal of trust.

And if in the end, salary cap money is taken away from the Vikings, I say the greater good has been served.

[Sparkey]

Maybe Rastak feels Jilted by Krob and now has an axe too grind with him..??..??

Does it burn you that he is not a Viking anymore ?

[Rastak]

Either he is classless or his agent is classless or both. They didn't file immediately because he looked like an idiot after the incident.

Rastak, I don't see how "classless" comes into play with a legal maneuver. It's just lawyer crap, trying to get more money, the American way as someone else said. Maybe I didn't read closely enough, but I didn't see any betrayal of trust.

And if in the end, salary cap money is taken away from the Vikings, I say the greater good has been served.

Well I agree to a certain point. He screwed over a team that paid him a million bucks and let his teammates down. The Vikings had written into his contract they could recover that money and to this point hadn't. It seems to me it was an even trade of sorts. As I said, both took the high road. Now they want to be paid after pulling what they did and even though the dude is collecting an NFL salary now, amazing as it is. I don't call that classy by any means. Is it classless? It's in the eye of the beholder I guess.

[gbpackfan]

I don't get what your beef is Rastak. He believes he is owed some money and is going after it the right way. He is not commenting on it, nor has he bashed the Vikings.

Oh, could you lend me a 100 bucks, I know you won't go after me when I don't pay it back! :lol:

[Rastak]

I don't get what your beef is Rastak. He believes he is owed some money and is going after it the right way. He is not commenting on it, nor has he bashed the Vikings.

Oh, could you lend me a 100 bucks, I know you won't go after me when I don't pay it back! :lol:


Well, the Vikings are also owed money based on his contract so I'm guessing they will do the same. I'm surprised both sides didn't let sleeping dogs lie. Actually the Vikings loaned him a million and seemed content to let him keep it, I wouldn't do that now if I were them.

[mraynrand]

Rastak, I don't see how "classless" comes into play with a legal maneuver. It's just lawyer crap, trying to get more money, the American way as someone else said.

I agree. I don't think I've ever known a legal maneuver that didn't have class. just ask Johnny Cockroach and Flea Bailey. And as John Kerry said : "John Edwards is the embodiment of the American Dream," as he sued OBGYN docs for unavoidable birth defects and fought for the right of mothers to blenderize their 6 month old babies' brains.

repeat after me: all lawyers are good, all legal maneuvers are classy. Suing for money is the American Way. enjoy.

[Rastak]

Actually, one more thought before I duck out of this thread...it IS possible the Vikings were planning to try and recover the roster bonus but were waiting until his Oct 17th court date...who knows.

[Guiness]

Odd for sure. I can't see how he can hope to get anything, except that the Vikings put something about skill and performance being unsatisfactory - don't know why they'd say that about a Pro-Bowl player!

Although I'm starting to think Rastak is carrying a pretty serious chip about this guy (I don't blame him - look how we all felt about JW) I tend to agree with him that a counter suit from the Vikings is likely.

Also Rastak, you mention the Vikings lending him $1million? Were you refering to the roster bonus, or was there something else?

[Rastak]

Odd for sure. I can't see how he can hope to get anything, except that the Vikings put something about skill and performance being unsatisfactory - don't know why they'd say that about a Pro-Bowl player!

Although I'm starting to think Rastak is carrying a pretty serious chip about this guy (I don't blame him - look how we all felt about JW) I tend to agree with him that a counter suit from the Vikings is likely.

Also Rastak, you mention the Vikings lending him $1million? Were you refering to the roster bonus, or was there something else?


Roster bonus.

You guys would be all over him if he would done that to the Packers. Actually he still might, actually he most likely will based on his previous history.

[chewy-bacca]

I dont blame him for trying. I would think it werid if he didnt try to get it. If by chance the NFL sees it his way, he gets paid. if not everyone moves a long.

This has nothing to do with class.

[MJZiggy]

Did we even give him a roster bonus? I thought it was strictly pay-per-game with nothing guaranteed at all.

[Rastak]

Did we even give him a roster bonus? I thought it was strictly pay-per-game with nothing guaranteed at all.


No, the Vikings gave him a roster bonus with language in the contract protecting them against the very thing he did....the Packers didn't give him squat in garuntees....

[mngolf19]

korens lawyers probably feel it's worth the shot to recoup some cash. let a judge read his contract and make a decision. it's the american way. i won't rip robinson for this one although i don't have an agenda. the vikes still aren't over gilbert and now they just lost a #1 reciever to a division foe.boo hoo. get over it and let the man get on with his life.

WTF? :crazy:

[red]

the cba (the new one) clearly says you can't cut od guy for disaplinary reasons

and if a judge finds that this is a case of that, then k-rob will get the money he should get

if the judge decidesthatkoren isn't owed a dime, then he doesn't get a dime

rules are rules, if the vikes broke the rules, then they have to pay

old contracts with the clauses pretty much mean nothing now with the new cba, or at least thats the way i understand it. and a judge will decide if it stands or not

i can't blame the guy, every single player in the nfl would do the exact same thing in that situation

[Rastak]

the cba (the new one) clearly says you can't cut od guy for disaplinary reasons

and if a judge finds that this is a case of that, then k-rob will get the money he should get

if the judge decidesthatkoren isn't owed a dime, then he doesn't get a dime

rules are rules, if the vikes broke the rules, then they have to pay

old contracts with the clauses pretty much mean nothing now with the new cba, or at least thats the way i understand it. and a judge will decide if it stands or not

i can't blame the guy, every single player in the nfl would do the exact same thing in that situation


The CBA gives a club 2 reasons....
"Performance and for "Personal conduct which, in the reasonable judgment of the club, adversely affects or reflects on the club.".

Which do you think they'll claim?

[Guiness]

lesse Rastak - maybe the guy in yur avatar should've went for the same reason???

[Rastak]

lesse Rastak - maybe the guy in yur avatar should've went for the same reason???

For being a three time loser in the drug program or for commiting a felony or for arriving at jail drunk for his jail sentance given for his umteenth DUI?

:shock:

He isn't any of those, he mearly jammed an object which is designed for the purpose into the appropriate place for said object
with a member of the opposite sex being the reciever of that object. Hmm, was I nice enough in describing that!



Hey Guiness, I was all for giving the guy a second chance and I had serious doubts when camp opened, he's an ass and if I come across as a guy who thinks he's an ass I am. He could have killed people with that last stunt and when the Vikings cut him I said "good bye asshole". Now everything I read about the guy he's a very nice fellow. He also makes assholish decisions in his life OVER AND OVER. I know you think it's no big deal, probably because he now wears your teams colors...(sorry if I'm wrong and putting words in your mouth) but when he's gone, you'll think the same thing in the end I bet.

[Patler]

The players union could be the moving force behind this. The new language in the contract is significant, and was a big issue for the union. Not just players being released, but fined, suspended, etc. The Keyshawn Johnson, Ricky Williams and T.O situations. When can a team refuse to pay, or even demand money back?

This is the first situation under the new CBA language, and the union isn't about to let the team determine unilaterally what the new language means, and how it applies. The union may not think they will win, but they might be able to get an arbitrator to agree on a few issues or something.

[digitaldean]

All in all, I never was in favor of K-Rob being here. He had chance after chance and blew it.

It does not matter to me how he does this season, it sends the wrong message.

I have had friends die because of driving drunk or due to a drunk driver hitting them. I am all for him getting his life back together. But I feel it's like playing Russian roulette in signing him.

Now with this grievance, it appalls me even more. I don't know about anyone else, but in my company if I do anything that doesn't reflect well on my company, I get canned. No golden parachute, no million dollar signing bonus to fall back on.

I don't expect choirboys to wear the Green and Gold. Heck, McGee and Hornung were hell raisers, but they didn't try to outrun the cops at 110 MPH either!

This guy's actions have not (luckily) cost anyone their life. I am pulling for him to get his life turned around and out of the bottle.

[cpk1994]

Then, by your logic, tading a first round pick for an alcoholic, hard partying QB sends the wrong message. Thats my problem with this whole thing. I don't care for K-Rob, but when people go on asking "What if he kills someone, while our future HOF QB was never held to the same standard, it reeks of hyprocrisy. Sme thing with Christl's article. It was a hypocritical piece of garbage. Now, If god forbid K-Rob kills someone(hoping with crossed fingers that he doesn't), does it really matter if he is a Packer or not? NO! No matter what he does for a living, bet it a plumber, a lawyer or a WR for the Pack, if he kills someone, he kills someone.

[Rastak]

Then, by your logic, tading a first round pick for an alcoholic, hard partying QB sends the wrong message. Thats my problem with this whole thing. I don't care for K-Rob, but when people go on asking "What if he kills someone, while our future HOF QB was never held to the same standard, it reeks of hyprocrisy. Sme thing with Christl's article. It was a hypocritical piece of garbage. Now, If god forbid K-Rob kills someone(hoping with crossed fingers that he doesn't), does it really matter if he is a Packer or not? NO! No matter what he does for a living, bet it a plumber, a lawyer or a WR for the Pack, if he kills someone, he kills someone.


I don't think Favre pulled any of the stunts Robinson pulled so you really shouldn't compare the two. I think the Wisconsin sportswriter was just pointing out that by signing Robinson it's more likely a Wisconsin resident get's killed instead of some poor slob in his home town.

I hope this who;e thing is a completely moot point.

[red]

favre just never got busted, the wisconsin media protected him pretty well during with bigtime drinking days

[Zool]

No matter what he does for a living, bet it a plumber, a lawyer or a WR for the Pack, if he kills someone, he kills someone.

Yup. Maybe keeping the guy gainfully employed will prevent him from doing this again. Maybe if he's cut he will go into a drinking frenzy because he's depressed. He should do some time for what he's done in his life, but keeping the guy from getting a job is ridiculous. So everyone who ever gets a DUI should get fired from their profession and never get a job again? His off the field activities should have nothing to do with his job.

These guys arent role models and any parent that lets them be role models for their children is asking for it. Parents are the role modes, atheletes are entertainment and nothing more. At least in my view.

I'm about 150% sure he's not the first pro to drive drunk multiple times. If he does his time as assigned by a judge, then let him play.

[Rastak]

No matter what he does for a living, bet it a plumber, a lawyer or a WR for the Pack, if he kills someone, he kills someone.

Yup. Maybe keeping the guy gainfully employed will prevent him from doing this again.


Yea, that's helped alot so far.

[Patler]

On fact I read this week that I like is that the Packers are providing and requiring daily counseling sessions for Robinson.

[Harlan Huckleby]

All in all, I never was in favor of K-Rob being here. He had chance after chance and blew it.

It does not matter to me how he does this season, it sends the wrong message.

What is that "wrong message"?

The only reason Robinson is in Green Bay is that he is a very good player. The team is not condoning what Robinson did. But Thompson, the Coaches and players are comfortable working with him.

I guess what you are saying is that YOU would not want to work with somebody who got drunk and went on a high speed chase. OK, that's a personal choice. I wouldn't want to work with Mossey Cade. Everybody draws the line at a different spot.

[Rastak]

All in all, I never was in favor of K-Rob being here. He had chance after chance and blew it.

It does not matter to me how he does this season, it sends the wrong message.

What is that "wrong message"?

The only reason Robinson is in Green Bay is that he is a very good player. The team is not condoning what Robinson did. But Thompson, the Coaches and players are comfortable working with him.

I guess what you are saying is that YOU would not want to work with somebody who got drunk and went on a high speed chase. OK, that's a personal choice. I wouldn't want to work with Mossey Cade. Everybody draws the line at a different spot.


Ah, HH, so you're in the Marvin Lewis camp..... :smile:

[digitaldean]

Then, by your logic, tading a first round pick for an alcoholic, hard partying QB sends the wrong message. Thats my problem with this whole thing. I don't care for K-Rob, but when people go on asking "What if he kills someone, while our future HOF QB was never held to the same standard, it reeks of hyprocrisy. Sme thing with Christl's article. It was a hypocritical piece of garbage. Now, If god forbid K-Rob kills someone(hoping with crossed fingers that he doesn't), does it really matter if he is a Packer or not? NO! No matter what he does for a living, bet it a plumber, a lawyer or a WR for the Pack, if he kills someone, he kills someone.

So Favre was on probation and STILL got busted for speeding 110 MPH in a 55?!! No.

Not close in comparisons at all. Favre was bright enough to have someone else drive. I used to bartend in Appleton through most of the 1990s and he was down there most weekends.

Did he pull some wild hair stunts, yes. Did he even get addicted to pain killers, yes.

No one knew anything about Favre when Wolf traded for him. K-Rob was a known commodity with a boatload of baggage.

The comparisons you provide aren't valid.

[FavreChild]

I'm sure most of you will not be surprised to learn that I agree with Rastak. I think some of you are a little too quick to defend the uniform. And believe me, I am not out to "get" K-Rob.

What I take issue with, however, is the defense of "the American way." As if that end absolves all wrongdoing. Granted, I am studying political economy, and that is messing with my perception of the world. :wink:

But just because capitalism is "the American way" doesn't make it right. And no matter how you slice it, Robinson is a member of the elite class - the level of society that makes all the rules. If y'all are ok with another instance of the elite class flexing its power...then I don't know what to say to that.

You say that K-Rob serves our interests because he is a good football player? Um...okay...but it is not you or me that is making money from K-Rob's on-field accomplishments.

No, I don't care that this guy is on the field, playing for us, representing our team. That's cool - I don't care about his off-field behavior. But why would I want to defend him and argue that he is entitled to *our* money?

Again, sorry for the political commentary. I don't want people to hate K-Rob at all, just to think about why the heck you're defending him or any other millionaire player for that matter... :cool:

[Patler]

I'm sure most of you will not be surprised to learn that I agree with Rastak. I think some of you are a little too quick to defend the uniform. And believe me, I am not out to "get" K-Rob.

What I take issue with, however, is the defense of "the American way." As if that end absolves all wrongdoing. Granted, I am studying political economy, and that is messing with my perception of the world. :wink:

But just because capitalism is "the American way" doesn't make it right. And no matter how you slice it, Robinson is a member of the elite class - the level of society that makes all the rules. If y'all are ok with another instance of the elite class flexing its power...then I don't know what to say to that.

You say that K-Rob serves our interests because he is a good football player? Um...okay...but it is not you or me that is making money from K-Rob's on-field accomplishments.

No, I don't care that this guy is on the field, playing for us, representing our team. That's cool - I don't care about his off-field behavior. But why would I want to defend him and argue that he is entitled to *our* money?

Again, sorry for the political commentary. I don't want people to hate K-Rob at all, just to think about why the heck you're defending him or any other millionaire player for that matter... :cool:

The battle here is not between a player and us, it is between a player and the owner, and in the NFL "society" the owners are the ones with power and control, and are the ones who make the rules for the most part. See my first post in this thread. I think this grievance could be as much about the union taking a stand and wanting to test the boundary as it is about Robinson thinking he really is entitled to more.

[FavreChild]

The battle here is not between a player and us, it is between a player and the owner, and in the NFL "society" the owners are the ones with power and control.

No offense, but that is what they *want* you to think. :wink:

When it's billionaires fighting against millionaires, well, that just distracts the rest of us from the fact that we're neither.

I warned you about my studies. But I don't want to ruin everyone's fun, either. So I'll drop it. Otherwise, I could argue this point with you ad infinitum, and I don't think anyone would appreciate that. :cool:

[Patler]

When it's billionaires fighting against millionaires, well, that just distracts the rest of us from the fact that we're neither.


This is a very simple question. Who gets the money?
Does the player get it or does the owner keep it?

They couldn't care less about us, at this point.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I want to see Robinson get his millions just to piss Rastak off.

I don't think that Robinson is a rotten guy, just a drunk who made a stupid move, but I could be wrong.

Michael Jordon was famous for driving at ridiculous speeds. Got busted for drunk driving too.

It's friggin awful behavior, has to be stopped. I don't wish people ill because of it, tho.

[MadtownPacker]

I want to see Robinson get his millions just to piss Rastak off.
This has to be the best post of the day!!

[Rastak]

I want to see Robinson get his millions just to piss Rastak off.
This has to be the best post of the day!!


:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: