One HUGE postive today

[VegasPackFan]

I never heard this even one time during the game:

"Pass interference. Number 28 on the defense."

Win or lose, it was pure heaven, I tell you! Pure heaven.

[MJZiggy]

Not once did I hear "Brett Favre intercepted..."

[packinpatland]

ONE (1) only one Sack. Unfortunetly, it was on the last play.

[Joemailman]

At least when we gave up a completion today, you could tell who was supposed to be covering the receiver. That's a start.

[red]

well, one huge good thing that i can see is that we have a bye week to heal up and work on many problems. then after that we have 3 straight, very winable games

[Bossman641]

I wouldn't exactly be singing the praises of Dendy as a huge upgrade over Carroll yet. I saw him get beat a few times but Bulger missed his man.

[digitaldean]

well, one huge good thing that i can see is that we have a bye week to heal up and work on many problems. then after that we have 3 straight, very winable games

Unfortunately during the bye week, most of the players bug out of town.

Given the present state of affairs, they should be spending more time working on the problems. They have all off season to do what they want.

The toughest part is that the N.O., Philly and St. Louis games were winnable.

Common denominators....DROPPED PASSES, TURNOVERS, PENALTIES. Fix those 3 issues we win at least 2 of the 3.

Well, we do have a shot with the next 3, but the sleeves need to get rolled up and work has to get accomplished.

[Partial]

well, one huge good thing that i can see is that we have a bye week to heal up and work on many problems. then after that we have 3 straight, very winable games

Unfortunately during the bye week, most of the players bug out of town.

Given the present state of affairs, they should be spending more time working on the problems. They have all off season to do what they want.

The toughest part is that the N.O., Philly and St. Louis games were winnable.

Common denominators....DROPPED PASSES, TURNOVERS, PENALTIES. Fix those 3 issues we win at least 2 of the 3.

Well, we do have a shot with the next 3, but the sleeves need to get rolled up and work has to get accomplished.

Herron was on the radio saying they have a normal week of practice this week and next. That is good news, in my opinion.

[vince]

well, one huge good thing that i can see is that we have a bye week to heal up and work on many problems. then after that we have 3 straight, very winable games

Unfortunately during the bye week, most of the players bug out of town.

Given the present state of affairs, they should be spending more time working on the problems. They have all off season to do what they want.

The toughest part is that the N.O., Philly and St. Louis games were winnable.

Common denominators....DROPPED PASSES, TURNOVERS, PENALTIES. Fix those 3 issues we win at least 2 of the 3.

Well, we do have a shot with the next 3, but the sleeves need to get rolled up and work has to get accomplished.

Herron was on the radio saying they have a normal week of practice this week and next. That is good news, in my opinion.
That is really good news. I tell you, the more I see from MM, the more I like him. Individual accountability and expectations for success.

[Partial]

well, one huge good thing that i can see is that we have a bye week to heal up and work on many problems. then after that we have 3 straight, very winable games

Unfortunately during the bye week, most of the players bug out of town.

Given the present state of affairs, they should be spending more time working on the problems. They have all off season to do what they want.

The toughest part is that the N.O., Philly and St. Louis games were winnable.

Common denominators....DROPPED PASSES, TURNOVERS, PENALTIES. Fix those 3 issues we win at least 2 of the 3.

Well, we do have a shot with the next 3, but the sleeves need to get rolled up and work has to get accomplished.

Herron was on the radio saying they have a normal week of practice this week and next. That is good news, in my opinion.
That is really good news. I tell you, the more I see from MM, the more I like him. Individual accountability and expectations for success.

Vince,

you're in the top 10 posters here imo. Keep it up!

[vince]

I wouldn't exactly be singing the praises of Dendy as a huge upgrade over Carroll yet. I saw him get beat a few times but Bulger missed his man.
Yes, Dendy was covering from behind regularly. This first game, he doesn't appear to be the answer, but I still love the move to get rid of Carroll. He certainly did no worse than Ahmad has done for three years.

[Patler]

I wouldn't exactly be singing the praises of Dendy as a huge upgrade over Carroll yet. I saw him get beat a few times but Bulger missed his man.

Well, that might be an improvement. At least Dendy kept his hands off the guy so overthrows were incompletions and didn't look like interference, holding, etc.

It also looked like the light went on last week for Harris and Woodson. Who knows why?

[VegasPackFan]

Vince, you understand the original point of my post.

DB's get burned in this league. It is inevitable. I just could not tolerate the fact that AC was either getting burned or penalized. He always gave the other team TWO ways to make a positive play. Plus he acted like a punk.

It is a massive improvement to not hear those words anymore.

Ever hear of "Addition by subtraction?"

[ahaha]

How about the O-Line opening up some holes? Noah Herron over 100 yds. They must have been doing something right for that to ever happen.

[Patler]

How about the O-Line opening up some holes? Noah Herron over 100 yds.

True, but Noah Herron is destined to be one of the truly great runningbacks in NFL history, so I'm not sure how much credit should go to the O-line!
:lol: :mrgreen: :lol: :mrgreen: :lol: :mrgreen: :lol: :mrgreen: :lol:

[Bossman641]

Some of those holes were absolutely huge. There is still a little bit of inconsistency and a few missed cut blocks, but the improvement is like night and day. There was one play where the Pack had like 3rd and 1 or 2 and Herron busted one off for about 10 yards. When they showed the replay the entire defensive line was on the ground. It was a thing of beauty.

I think Jags said before that it took the ATL linemen 5 or 6 games before they really picked up the scheme. It appears like we are reaching that point. Let's hope so.

[mission]

How about the O-Line opening up some holes? Noah Herron over 100 yds.

True, but Noah Herron is destined to be one of the truly great runningbacks in NFL history, so I'm not sure how much credit should go to the O-line!
:lol: :mrgreen: :lol: :mrgreen: :lol: :mrgreen: :lol: :mrgreen: :lol:

haha yeah the last thing i want is for defenses to not give a shit about our running attack, allowing any noah herron or vm to come in and rush for one hundred yards... this essentially tricking our head office and we enter next season with the same backfield of average college running backs.

o-line is definitely the most improved part of our team from game one of the preseason. im likin that!

[retailguy]

Vince,

you're in the top 10 posters here imo. Keep it up!


So, WHO are the other 9?..... Inquiring minds want to know... :wink: :mrgreen:

[retailguy]

o-line is definitely the most improved part of our team from game one of the preseason. im likin that!


Tony, I agree, the OL played well today. However, scouts inc has the Rams ranked like 28th against the run....

Can I reserve judgement until we play someone ranked in the top 10 run defense and we run well then?

I'm still concerned about the line.

[hurleyfan]

One big positive?

WTF, the Packers lost another game AT Lambeau against a team they should've beaten...

Forget Carrol not being there.. forget how many dropped passes ('specially on the defense, Harris a sure interception and the superstar Woodson)

I dare say there is not a SINGLE positive.. we all ready to accept some plays as "acceptable" when this team is in the process of becoming a replica of the pre Wolfe / Holmgren teams :crazy:

[woodbuck27]

" Common denominators....**DROPPED PASSES, TURNOVERS, PENALTIES. Fix those 3 issues we win at least 2 of the 3. " digitaldean

How many pass's were dropped today?

[ahaha]

One big positive?

WTF, the Packers lost another game AT Lambeau against a team they should've beaten...

Forget Carrol not being there.. forget how many dropped passes ('specially on the defense, Harris a sure interception and the superstar Woodson)

I dare say there is not a SINGLE positive.. we all ready to accept some plays as "acceptable" when this team is in the process of becoming a replica of the pre Wolfe / Holmgren teams :crazy:

Jesus, buddy! Not one positive thing? Coming off a 4-12 season, being the youngest team in football, and starting 4 rookies; and we almost won the game. How can there be nothing positive? Do you think you're the coach giving some motivational speech? We are fans here looking for positive signs that the packers might be improving. If we had gotten stomped 85-0 I might agree with you, but c'mon, they did a few things right.

[FavreChild]

I never heard this even one time during the game:

"Pass interference. Number 28 on the defense."

Too bad we still heard pass interference being called on other members of the secondary....not to mention the other numerous mistakes by that unit.

Sorry, but the addition by subtraction theory does not apply to this secondary. We are no better off without Carroll, and I still resent his scapegoating.

Under the irrational precedent set by TT, I fully expect that today's scapegoat will be released tomorrow. Maybe Colledge?

There were, however, many positives to be found today - none of which I attribute to the coaching, though.

[retailguy]

but c'mon, they did a few things right.


YEAH. What he said. Here's one right thing. NO ONE ordered a pizza from the playchart. NO ONE.... Sorry, I couldn't resist.... :mrgreen:

I rather enjoyed the game. Except for the last play.

[mission]

o-line is definitely the most improved part of our team from game one of the preseason. im likin that!


Tony, I agree, the OL played well today. However, scouts inc has the Rams ranked like 28th against the run....

Can I reserve judgement until we play someone ranked in the top 10 run defense and we run well then?

I'm still concerned about the line.

oh i completely hear that brother, but even the work we did on the lions front four (pass blocking) and then last week they had some beasts that we were able to hold off as well. granted, the running game has been virtually non-existant, i just think something like the ZBS can eventually make up for average talent as long as the guys have enough experiene in it to allow the system to do the work (not necessarily 6'7" 340 beasts). then we get a back with a few more measurables and one-and-cut downhill style and we'll be singing a completely different tune.

hopefully :neutral:

[retailguy]

Maybe Colledge?




Nah... He's a TT drafted guy. Only the Sherman guys get "scapegoated". :shock:

[Joemailman]

Maybe Colledge?




Nah... He's a TT drafted guy. Only the Sherman guys get "scapegoated". :shock:

Tell that to Cory Rodgers

[GrnBay007]

One huge positive today??? I got to actually WATCH about 30 minutes of the game. :neutral:

[mission]

I never heard this even one time during the game:

"Pass interference. Number 28 on the defense."

Too bad we still heard pass interference being called on other members of the secondary....not to mention the other numerous mistakes by that unit.

Sorry, but the addition by subtraction theory does not apply to this secondary. We are no better off without Carroll, and I still resent his scapegoating.

Under the irrational precedent set by TT, I fully expect that today's scapegoat will be released tomorrow. Maybe Colledge?

There were, however, many positives to be found today - none of which I attribute to the coaching, though.

for reasons (i fought) that were out of my control, i wasnt able to watch the fourth quarter but it seemed to be al harris all day long on the defensive flags. i have a hard time believing he's lost this much of a step as some are saying in less than a year... he's playing uninspired and i just think his attitude and perception on the season has waned enough to affect his play.

woodson had an embarassing moment or two but he had his second decent game of the year and the kids in the back seemed to not be getting announced much today (definitely good).

i love my blood pressure staying down a bit with 28 off the field....... dendy and bush did no worse and seemed to gain some confidence.

[hurleyfan]

One big positive?

WTF, the Packers lost another game AT Lambeau against a team they should've beaten...

Forget Carrol not being there.. forget how many dropped passes ('specially on the defense, Harris a sure interception and the superstar Woodson)

I dare say there is not a SINGLE positive.. we all ready to accept some plays as "acceptable" when this team is in the process of becoming a replica of the pre Wolfe / Holmgren teams :crazy:

Jesus, buddy! Not one positive thing? Coming off a 4-12 season, being the youngest team in football, and starting 4 rookies; and we almost won the game. How can there be nothing positive? Do you think you're the coach giving some motivational speech? We are fans here looking for positive signs that the packers might be improving. If we had gotten stomped 85-0 I might agree with you, but c'mon, they did a few things right.


Ahaha

Sure there were some decent things done, and I don't want to be considered too negative, but the Rams aren't exactly the cream of the NFL crop! I understand fans are looking for positive signs, but this game should've been won by the Packers, maybe not 85 nothing, but should've been a victory for the good guys..

I understand this is a very young team, but the lack of play makers is too much to overcome the missed opportunities presented to our supposed vets(Harris / Woodson INTs)

I've been around long enough to live the 70's teams, and I surely don't want to go through that again, and in this day and age, with a decent front office and scout dept, the Packers aren't too far off..

[VegasPackFan]

I never heard this even one time during the game:

"Pass interference. Number 28 on the defense."

Too bad we still heard pass interference being called on other members of the secondary....not to mention the other numerous mistakes by that unit.

Sorry, but the addition by subtraction theory does not apply to this secondary. We are no better off without Carroll, and I still resent his scapegoating.

Under the irrational precedent set by TT, I fully expect that today's scapegoat will be released tomorrow. Maybe Colledge?

There were, however, many positives to be found today - none of which I attribute to the coaching, though.

It is not irrational to cut a guy that despite all the efforts of the coaching staff over 2 years cannot and will not change. He was uncoachable and unteachable, and he was a liability to the entire team because of that.

It WOULD be irrational however, to cut a rookie with potential just because he still needs to improve. If over time, he cannot improve (a la Carroll) then yes, cut him.

The only precedent TT set was that they arent hanging on to dead weight anyomore just because someone was a high draft pick. If you suck and you keep making the same damn mistakes over and over again for multiple seasons, then bye bye!

[FavreChild]

You can feel the way you do about Carroll, Vegas - but it was still a total PR move by TT to appease the fans. (I use "appease" quite deliberately to refer to the tactics of a megalomaniac dictator like TT.)

Obviously we do not have the same opinion of TT, which is fine. But leaders aren't supposed to be emotional (i.e., irrational). Benching Carroll would have been fine. Replacing Carroll with someone else - same thing. It was a chicken-sh*t move; he could have cut Carroll before the season if he was really that incompetent.

The irony, of course, is no admittance of culpability on the part of TT or the coaching staff, while Carroll is punished for his refreshing honesty. Again, the secondary performed no better w/out Carroll, and I also would encourage y'all to take a refresher of today's McGinn article for a less biased view of Carroll's stats.

[retailguy]

and I also would encourage y'all to take a refresher of today's McGinn article for a less biased view of Carroll's stats.

Most of us poor folk can't read it... :sad: Can you? :wink:

[FavreChild]

Alas, only the print version. :wink:

[retailguy]

Alas, only the print version. :wink:


Can you type it? :wink: :twisted:

[pbmax]

You can feel the way you do about Carroll, Vegas - but it was still a total PR move by TT to appease the fans. (I use "appease" quite deliberately to refer to the tactics of a megalomaniac dictator like TT.)

Obviously we do not have the same opinion of TT, which is fine. But leaders aren't supposed to be emotional (i.e., irrational). Benching Carroll would have been fine. Replacing Carroll with someone else - same thing. It was a chicken-sh*t move; he could have cut Carroll before the season if he was really that incompetent.

The irony, of course, is no admittance of culpability on the part of TT or the coaching staff, while Carroll is punished for his refreshing honesty. Again, the secondary performed no better w/out Carroll, and I also would encourage y'all to take a refresher of today's McGinn article for a less biased view of Carroll's stats.
I think if Carroll was viewed as having potential by other teams, wouldn't he have been picked up already?

[FavreChild]

OK, but if that's your claim - that Carroll really *was* that bad - then why did TT fail to recognize such a significant flaw in the secondary and correct it BEFORE the season?

It's not that Carroll was cut, it's HOW he was cut. It was done in such a way that it was obviously a cheap ploy for fan gratification.

[digitaldean]

OK, but if that's your claim - that Carroll really *was* that bad - then why did TT fail to recognize such a significant flaw in the secondary and correct it BEFORE the season?

It's not that Carroll was cut, it's HOW he was cut. It was done in such a way that it was obviously a cheap ploy for fan gratification.

I think it's a mistake on TT's part on the timing of cutting Carroll.

He should have been cut at the end of the preseason. Horton should've been kept or a different veteran should have been signed.

I don't really think that TT is that terribly worried about giving in to fan pressure.

[FavreChild]

No, but he did know that the fans - for the most part - would approve.

The timing was bad, you're right. It's really just that simple.

[The Leaper]

I don't take away much in positives from this loss.

The defense continues to be completely unable to make big plays happen...even when the ball is thrown right to them with no interference.

The offense continues to do just enough to make you think there is something to take away from the game...but in the end the offense was the one that really lost this game by screwing up at crucial points and turning the ball over.

We look like the Bengals from the 1990s out there. There is NOTHING positive about that.

[VegasPackFan]

Everybody is certainly entitled to their opinion.

I must say, once again, that I am so very happy that I will not be hearing "(Insert penalty here) number 28......" any more.

Come to think of it, I would like to start a petition to PERMANENTLY RETIRE THE 28 JERSEY. That way, I can enjoy the rest of my life and my offspring can also enjoy theirs as Packer fans, never having to hear that phrase broadcast over the ref's mic ever again.

[Partial]

can someone post the PI artticle by McGinn? Bretsky, Harvey, anybody with PI?!? :D

[HarveyWallbangers]

The secondary didn't look better without Carroll, FavreChild? What game were you watching? This is the best they've looked all year, by far.

I said a long time ago that Carroll didn't have the necessary ball skills to ever be more than an adequate nickelback, at best and with improvement. I won't lose any sleep over Carroll. Not after seeing him look like the same guy in game 35 that he looked like in game 1 (e.g. had good coverage at times, completely schooled on other plays, absolutely no ball skills, grabbing/holding receivers all the time). Did he improve? Well, slightly. How could he not? I suspect he goes the way of Joey Thomas, and you hear little about him (in a good way) for the rest of his career.

[Joemailman]

I did think the secondary looked better today. It is true they gave up 2 TD passes. However, on the 1st one, Harris had good coverage, but Torry Holt just made a great catch. On the 2nd one, the coverage initially was good, but there was no pass rush on Bulger and he eventually foung a receiver open in the back of the end zone. The mental lapses by the secondary seemed to be gone today. Whether that had anything t do with the release of Carroll is hard to say.

[FavreChild]

Hmm, not to mention the several dropped passes.

Methinks some of you have selective perception.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Hmm, not to mention the several dropped passes.

Methinks some of you have selective perception.

We were giving up 30 points and 300 yards passing/game. We gave up 23 points and 209 yards passing yesterday against a team that threw for over 300 yards each of their last two games. That's improvement. It could have been better with the picks, but that's an encouraging sign. The longest play by a WR yesterday was 22 yards. That was against Torry Holt, Isaac Bruce, and Kevin Curtis. This after we gave up three 30+ yard pass plays to WRs in week 4, three 25+ yard pass plays to WRs in week 3, three 26+ yard pass plays to WRs in week 2, three 27+ yard pass plays to WRs in week 1. Yes, that's improvement.

[swede]

Game, set and match to Harv.

It sucks to lose, but this team showed improvement. Some losses show you don't know WTF you're doing. Some losses give you something to build on. I think this one was the latter.

[Patler]

However, on the 1st one, Harris had good coverage, but Torry Holt just made a great catch.

Something bothered me on that play, and it points out why I am getting more concerned about Al Harris. For background, I want to point out what I wrote elsewhere, that Harris has had seven flags thrown against him in 5 games this year, after getting more than usual the second half of last season. In his last 8 games, I believe he is responsible for 5 TDs.

On the play yesterday, he did have good coverage, and it was just about a perfect throw. BUT, Harris had no reaction to the throw. No diving attempt to knock it down. No hit against the receiver to attempt to jar it loose. Nothing. I'm not saying he could have prevented the TD, but it was almost as if he conceded, or just couldn't react. Unfortunately, that is what I first began to see the end of last season, and in now every game so far this season. His reactions seem to have slowed dramatically, which could account for the abundant penalties and big receptions against him.

Harris has not completely lost it by any means, but we may never again see the shutdown corener that he was for the first 12 games or so last season. I was really hoping he could stay at the top of his game at least two more seasons, but he may not be able.

[Sparkey]

OK, but if that's your claim - that Carroll really *was* that bad - then why did TT fail to recognize such a significant flaw in the secondary and correct it BEFORE the season?

It's not that Carroll was cut, it's HOW he was cut. It was done in such a way that it was obviously a cheap ploy for fan gratification.


The only reason every gets worked up over this move is because he was a 1st round draft choice. If he was a street FA, you would have heard barely a whimper about the move. In fact most would have said, "If the guy can't perform then get someone else."

BUT, because he was a 1st rounder, somehow then TT should not have cut him ? I, for one, get the impression TT does not care when someone is drafted. If they can't do the job then let someone else have the opportunity to get the job done.

[KYPack]

You can feel the way you do about Carroll, Vegas - but it was still a total PR move by TT to appease the fans. (I use "appease" quite deliberately to refer to the tactics of a megalomaniac dictator like TT.)

Obviously we do not have the same opinion of TT, which is fine. But leaders aren't supposed to be emotional (i.e., irrational). Benching Carroll would have been fine. Replacing Carroll with someone else - same thing. It was a chicken-sh*t move; he could have cut Carroll before the season if he was really that incompetent.

The irony, of course, is no admittance of culpability on the part of TT or the coaching staff, while Carroll is punished for his refreshing honesty. Again, the secondary performed no better w/out Carroll, and I also would encourage y'all to take a refresher of today's McGinn article for a less biased view of Carroll's stats.

Listen to the Favrechild.

She's runnin' wild.

The Carroll moves may have played well to the crowd, but it was a not real thoughtful move. There were other ways to do what that cut accomplished (which was very little, BTW).

Incidently I disagreed with HH on the Roman cut earlier. He urged us to keep Roman. I said he didn't know what he was talking about.

I was wrong and hereby present my sword to the Blue one. TT cut's vets too readily and keeps kids like they are his hobby.

We need more gray haired and bald headed guys on this team. We got kids coming out the wazoo.

[Chester Marcol]

I like seeing Favre take command of this offense. He has the power now to observe the defense and make changes. Under Sherman, he would give Brett a round peg and expect the offense to fit it through whatever shape hole the defense gave us. Now if he can just hit the wide open Bubba in the endzone instead of throwing into double coverage.... On a positve, I like seeing McCarthy in his ear as he gets to the sideline as long as it's not just stroking Brett's ego and actually calling him out on his crappy choice of receiver.

[MadtownPacker]

While Im crushed by yesterdays loss I agree there are many positives to take away. Someone posted how the 4 losses are all against division leaders with a total record of 17-3. Guess it is good to know the team is hanging with better teams. If they can finish the second half of the season winning some of these close games 2007 will be a season to look forward to.

[Merlin]

ONE (1) only one Sack. Unfortunetly, it was on the last play.

I saw two sacks, the first one was way earlier in the game and Favre kind of laid down for it instead of getting his block knocked off, but it was a sack or should have been recorded as one since he was behind the line of scrimmage.

[Guiness]

At least when we gave up a completion today, you could tell who was supposed to be covering the receiver. That's a start.


It also looked like the light went on last week for Harris and Woodson. Who knows why?

These two comments really made me wonder - all the confusion, people looking at each other trying to figure out who was supposed to be covering the wide open receiver...is it possible that Carroll was responsible for even more of the backfield problems than we were aware of?

Makes me wonder if he was a loose cannon running around there like an idiot, screwing up everyone else on the field.

[Partial]

ONE (1) only one Sack. Unfortunetly, it was on the last play.

I saw two sacks, the first one was way earlier in the game and Favre kind of laid down for it instead of getting his block knocked off, but it was a sack or should have been recorded as one since he was behind the line of scrimmage.

It's only a sack if he's in the pocket, so perhaps that is why

[HarveyWallbangers]

No. There can be a sack outside of the pocket. It depends on whether the QB got back to the line of scrimmage and whether the official scorer deems it a run or pass. That play Merlin is talking about was ruled a sack. The Rams had two on the game (that one and the last play).

[MJZiggy]

Officially there were two listed in the game stats.

[Fritz]

Positives:

offensive line play

only four penalties

only 23 points allowed despite the early morency fumble

it's coming, people. Not fast as we'd like but it's coming along. I suspect that as the season goes on they'll win a few more than they have. And if TT can inject some more talent, they'll be on their way.