Is this 1-4 start easier to take then the last two?

[gbpackfan]

Pete Barth of Packersnews.com seems to think so. Here is a look at the "silver lining."

Final thoughts
There are, of course, no moral victories in the cut-throat world of the NFL.

The numbers don't lie, and the numbers say Green Bay is 1-4. More disburbing, Green Bay is winless at home (0-3). Remember the "Lambeau Mystique?" It is long gone, at least for now.

Yet although this marks the third straight season Green Bay has started 1-4, this team has more upside than the previous two.

For one thing, Green Bay is playing hard. The Packers competed today against what is probably a superior team in terms of overall personel. Defensively, there was much improvement.

For another, this Packers team seems to be getting better each week (which certainly wasn't a characteristic of Mike Sherman's last couple of teams). Yes, Green Bay was roasted in the second half of last week's game against the Eagles, but that was a stage the young Packers simply weren't ready for yet. Remember, they led at the half.

What we all need to understand is, whether the Packers or their fans want to admit it or not, this IS in fact a rebuilding year. Rookie offensive linemen are auditioning weekly. Young defensive backs like Patrick Dendy and Tyrone Culver are in the game during key moments. Young running backs Noah Herron and Vernand Morency are fighting to make an impression. A rookie wide receiver is one of the team's best offensive players. A rookie linebacker is playing well.

Perhaps most important of all, it appears that the new head coach may have been a good choice -- for the long term. He certainly hasn't lost his team yet; that's obvious.

Not all 1-4 starts are equal. All things considered, this one is easier to swallow than the last two.

--Pete Barth

[Partial]

I tend to agree.

I have a hunch this team ends the year 4-1 after a 1-4 start. It really seems like things are starting to come together with the OL and the blocking scheme. Finally, it looks like we have two first day picks playing those spots! I must say today the OL was reminded me of 2003 for the first time since Rivera and Wahle left. That is definitely a very good thing. Herron had some monsterous runs today. This is the guy we all thought was running through molasses instead of on grass during the preseason. Green would have had a MONSTEROUS day if healthy.

Like the games with Sherman last year, they are in the vast majority of these contests and they all come down to a play or two that change the outcome of the game it seems.

Offensively, Jennings looked like a legit number 1 receiver today. He's gonna be a good one!!

Defensively, the pass rush still isn't there to the level it needs to be, but they sure are a different front 7 against the run and short passes from last year. Hawk is going to be a star!

Overall, I really think this years draft class is developing as fast as we could have hoped and are beginning to show signs that they'll become players. That is very exciting news!

[Brainerd]

Ok. So Favre is the only one unhappy about losing? They should bench him for thinking that the goal is to win football games.

Some former Packers coach once stated: Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing.

I'm getting tired of those who think its acceptable to lose cause we're young and inexperienced.

Belechick took over a playoff team years ago and has kept it competitive through alot of personal changes. He didn't see the need to gut a team and start over. TT took over a playoff team and has gutted it to its current level. Blame Sherman all you want but the Packers were in the playoffs the year before TT took over. The same people who are now claiming patience are probably the same people who were impatient with Sherman. At least Sherman won football games. TT only knows how to lose football games.

I'm not a Sherman apologist. He needed to be told a few things but TT decided for himself to put us through some losing seasons in the hopes that it would work out. Sherman never accepted losing. TT doesn't seem to mind losing.

Who cares if TT gets the Packers back to the playoffs? Why do us fans have to suffer through multiple losing seasons when we see other teams just reload and stay competitive?

[HarveyWallbangers]

3rd and long is our nemesis. The defensive staff did better, but I still shake my head at some things I see. We stopped the Rams on 1st down most of the day, but we still get torched a lot on 3rd and long. Yet, in the second half what did we do: the few times we blitzed it was on 1st and 10, and we got gashed for some runs. 3rd and long. Still no blitzes. Still no pressure. Still gave up completions--although not as many as the first four weeks.

[Bossman641]

I absolutely hate our 3rd down defense. I would like to see more third down blitzes, and I want to see them coming from the edge, so that Hawk can use his speed. I'm so tired of seeing one of our LB get engulfed by the OL when they're sent on a middle blitz.

Also, can we introduce stunts to our linemen please? I don't think I ever see our Dl utilize this move. The Bears use it all the time. While our DL certainly aren't the Bears it at least causes some confusion with the OL.

[SD GB fan]

TT's biggest mistake is wahle

[Brainerd]

TT's biggest mistake is wahle

It certainly was his first of many. On the job training for everyone. Its disgusting. Clever of TT really. So much blame to pass around. The national press has keyed on Favre because they don't have the balls or intelligence to go after the root cause.

[SD GB fan]

yeah i think TT went overboard on rebuilding. but the reason why we were competitive all those years was really down to two things: a younger brett and a great o-line. the RBs and WRs were all servicable but not great. the defense after reggie white and leroy butler left were adequate but no one feared them. they did just enough to hold the other teams off while brett scored pts.

[vince]

Ok. So Favre is the only one unhappy about losing? They should bench him for thinking that the goal is to win football games.

Some former Packers coach once stated: Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing.

I'm getting tired of those who think its acceptable to lose cause we're young and inexperienced.

Belechick took over a playoff team years ago and has kept it competitive through alot of personal changes. He didn't see the need to gut a team and start over. TT took over a playoff team and has gutted it to its current level. Blame Sherman all you want but the Packers were in the playoffs the year before TT took over. The same people who are now claiming patience are probably the same people who were impatient with Sherman. At least Sherman won football games. TT only knows how to lose football games.

I'm not a Sherman apologist. He needed to be told a few things but TT decided for himself to put us through some losing seasons in the hopes that it would work out. Sherman never accepted losing. TT doesn't seem to mind losing.

Who cares if TT gets the Packers back to the playoffs? Why do us fans have to suffer through multiple losing seasons when we see other teams just reload and stay competitive?

The goal of every single player and coach is to WIN. That didn't happen today. The team didn't achieve their goal. Noone is happy about that. I can assure you that Mike McCarthy doesn't consider this loss "acceptable." He said after last game that the only way a team moves forward is through winning. Today wasn't a step forward in his mind. The team will apparently work through their bye week as a result of their current status.

What you don't seem to understand, Brainerd, is that the GM must take a more strategic view of the franchise than the coaches and players. His responsibility is to put the team in position to win CHAMPIONSHIPS. I could care less about being merely "competitive," as your sights are apparently set on.

What you also don't seem to understand Brainerd, is the business side of how to go about putting a franchise in position to win CHAMPIONSHIPS.

Mike Sherman traded away picks to get the ONE GUY that he absolutely had to have in order to keep the team competitive for the short term because he deemed the franchise in position to compete for a Super Bowl. Well, he fell short of that goal, and now the franchise is paying the price for that.

Unfortunately for all of us, Sherman's draft picks consistently have turned out to be flops. The third and fourth year talent that should be coming into its own on this team is practically non-existent. That's Mike Sherman's fault. You know, the guy who "never accepted losing"?

And he mortgaged future years in order to sign guys like Joe Johnson and Cletidus Hunt to big free agent contracts, putting this franchise in a dire cap position where the team had to constantly restructure players' deals to get under the cap or let them go. Mike Sherman mortgaged the future to get wins, and it burned both him, and our franchise, right in the ass. Yeah, that guy that doesn't accept losing...

Also, you are revising history with your comments about Bellichick. He was 5-11 in his first year taking over the helm of the Patriots. He and the GM in New England understood that you have to draft and sign VALUE in order to win consistently in this league, and their franchise should be held up on a pedestal as a model of how to build a winner.

TT is using that model, Brainerd, but you just have to have the vision to see beyond the hand in front of your face to understand it.

I don't want to lose either - at all. That's why I am very glad to have a GM that understands how to build a consistent winner - the right way. You know, the Bellichick way? Or maybe, the Pittsburgh Steelers way? Or maybe, the Seattle Seahawks way? Or maybe, the Chicago Bears way? Look at everyone of those franchises, and you'll see that Ted Thompson is modeling his decisions after those models of success.

Doing what Sherman did is what got us to where we are today. TT, unfortunately, has to fix it and get things going in the right direction again. He's doing that, and that's why some people are OK with a loss today. There's a bigger picture to look at Brainerd.

[retailguy]

NO, it is not easier to accept this 1-4 start than any other.

[VegasPackFan]

Too much thinking about the present without any thought for the future.

This team was in need of an overhaul, and TT did it. Live with it. People gripe about things today, but they will be enjoying the benefits of an improved team in the next 2-3 years.

I was sick of seeing mostly veteran players flop around on the field the last couple years.

The current staff, TT included, have no problems correcting problems and/or mistakes. Frankly, they dont care what people think - they are not trying to save face. This tends to be the attitude when YOU HAVE A PLAN.

When you have a plan, you dont care if it isnt popular. When you have a plan, you dont mind admitting and correcting your mistakes. When you have a plan, you can see into the future. You dont get caught up in the short - term.

So this team at 1-4 is far more interesting and exciting than any 1-4 team of the past. The reason being that it is actually for a purpose.

[vince]

Too much thinking about the present without any thought for the future.

This team was in need of an overhaul, and TT did it. Live with it. People gripe about things today, but they will be enjoying the benefits of an improved team in the next 2-3 years.

I was sick of seeing mostly veteran players flop around on the field the last couple years.

The current staff, TT included, have no problems correcting problems and/or mistakes. Frankly, they dont care what people think - they are not trying to save face. This tends to be the attitude when YOU HAVE A PLAN.

When you have a plan, you dont care if it isnt popular. When you have a plan, you dont mind admitting and correcting your mistakes. When you have a plan, you can see into the future. You dont get caught up in the short - term.

So this team at 1-4 is far more interesting and exciting than any 1-4 team of the past. The reason being that it is actually for a purpose.

What's interesting to me, is that the veterans on this team are every bit as, if not more, responsible for the mistakes that have cost us games thus far as the young guys.

[KYPack]

Well, 1-4 is still a losing record with 0-3 at Lambeau.

3 seasons back, we turned 1-4 into 10-6.

Last year, 1-4 lead to a death spiral.

This year, I see some hope for the future. We have young guys in key spots that are showing real ability.

Can we grow other players into solutions and playmakers?

I hope to high hell we can. Next year might actually be a positive for us. Last year made me think we were on a 5 yr run into hell.

Maybe 8-8 next year (I predicted that record for this year, but that's shot to hell) & back in the hunt in 08.

God I hate to admit I'd take that, but we got a LONG row to hoe

[FavreChild]

As soon as the word "upside" is invoked, I stop reading.

This year's 1-4 record is only easier to swallow because we were "supposed" to be bad. We're still losing games we should have won (Saints, Rams), and games we had ample opportunity to win (Eagles). The only out-and-out loss was the Bear game. This was also the case during the other 1-4 seasons, but this year, I feel there is less hope for improvement. Yes, we will win a few more games, but to what end? There won't be any sweeping changes during the next offseason - TT the megalomaniac has his regime in place and won't admit his mistakes.

[Partial]

TT's biggest mistake is wahle

It certainly was his first of many. On the job training for everyone. Its disgusting. Clever of TT really. So much blame to pass around. The national press has keyed on Favre because they don't have the balls or intelligence to go after the root cause.

I think by week 13 the difference between Wahle and Colledge will be smaller than you think.

[FavreChild]

I think by week 13 the difference between Wahle and Colledge will be smaller than you think.

In that they'll both be playing for non-playoff teams?

[Partial]

NO, it is not easier to accept this 1-4 start than any other.

yes it is :razz:

[retailguy]

I think by week 13 the difference between Wahle and Colledge will be smaller than you think.


Is Colledge gaining some weight? :razz: :twisted:

[retailguy]

NO, it is not easier to accept this 1-4 start than any other.

yes it is :razz:

NO, definitely not. :evil:

[digitaldean]

No this start is not easier to take.

Especially when we had very winnable games except for the Bears game.

I do know that when we stop shooting ourselves in the foot (or our a$$e$), we are going to win these games.

[MJZiggy]

TT the megalomaniac has his regime in place and won't admit his mistakes.

I wouldn't go that far. If he were unwilling to admit his mistakes, Cory Rodgers would still be back there muffing punts.

[Brainerd]

Ok. So Favre is the only one unhappy about losing? They should bench him for thinking that the goal is to win football games.

Some former Packers coach once stated: Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing.

I'm getting tired of those who think its acceptable to lose cause we're young and inexperienced.

Belechick took over a playoff team years ago and has kept it competitive through alot of personal changes. He didn't see the need to gut a team and start over. TT took over a playoff team and has gutted it to its current level. Blame Sherman all you want but the Packers were in the playoffs the year before TT took over. The same people who are now claiming patience are probably the same people who were impatient with Sherman. At least Sherman won football games. TT only knows how to lose football games.

I'm not a Sherman apologist. He needed to be told a few things but TT decided for himself to put us through some losing seasons in the hopes that it would work out. Sherman never accepted losing. TT doesn't seem to mind losing.

Who cares if TT gets the Packers back to the playoffs? Why do us fans have to suffer through multiple losing seasons when we see other teams just reload and stay competitive?

The goal of every single player and coach is to WIN. That didn't happen today. The team didn't achieve their goal. Noone is happy about that. I can assure you that Mike McCarthy doesn't consider this loss "acceptable." He said after last game that the only way a team moves forward is through winning. Today wasn't a step forward in his mind. The team will apparently work through their bye week as a result of their current status.

What you don't seem to understand, Brainerd, is that the GM must take a more strategic view of the franchise than the coaches and players. His responsibility is to put the team in position to win CHAMPIONSHIPS. I could care less about being merely "competitive," as your sights are apparently set on.

What you also don't seem to understand Brainerd, is the business side of how to go about putting a franchise in position to win CHAMPIONSHIPS.

Mike Sherman traded away picks to get the ONE GUY that he absolutely had to have in order to keep the team competitive for the short term because he deemed the franchise in position to compete for a Super Bowl. Well, he fell short of that goal, and now the franchise is paying the price for that.

Unfortunately for all of us, Sherman's draft picks consistently have turned out to be flops. The third and fourth year talent that should be coming into its own on this team is practically non-existent. That's Mike Sherman's fault. You know, the guy who "never accepted losing"?

And he mortgaged future years in order to sign guys like Joe Johnson and Cletidus Hunt to big free agent contracts, putting this franchise in a dire cap position where the team had to constantly restructure players' deals to get under the cap or let them go. Mike Sherman mortgaged the future to get wins, and it burned both him, and our franchise, right in the ass. Yeah, that guy that doesn't accept losing...

Also, you are revising history with your comments about Bellichick. He was 5-11 in his first year taking over the helm of the Patriots. He and the GM in New England understood that you have to draft and sign VALUE in order to win consistently in this league, and their franchise should be held up on a pedestal as a model of how to build a winner.

TT is using that model, Brainerd, but you just have to have the vision to see beyond the hand in front of your face to understand it.

I don't want to lose either - at all. That's why I am very glad to have a GM that understands how to build a consistent winner - the right way. You know, the Bellichick way? Or maybe, the Pittsburgh Steelers way? Or maybe, the Seattle Seahawks way? Or maybe, the Chicago Bears way? Look at everyone of those franchises, and you'll see that Ted Thompson is modeling his decisions after those models of success.

Doing what Sherman did is what got us to where we are today. TT, unfortunately, has to fix it and get things going in the right direction again. He's doing that, and that's why some people are OK with a loss today. There's a bigger picture to look at Brainerd.

Quit being a pretentious boob, Vince. You are not any smarter than the rest of us on this board, Vince. Your opinion carrys no more weight than any other, Vince. Although I fear you think it does, Vince.

You are using Sherman the GM as a whipping post to prove a point that is soley based on your opinion, Vince. Quit talking down to people in condesceding ways, Vince. Throwing around a bunch of facts is just throwing around a bunch of facts, Vince. Nothing you stated to make yourself look smart was pertinent to my post, Vince. I stated I wasn't a Sherman apologist and you throw around a bunch of facts to prove Sherman incompetant. Why, Vince?

Not everyone who disagrees with you is an idiot, Vince. Think of me what you want, Vince.

[Harlan Huckleby]

lordy lordy

[vince]

Ok. So Favre is the only one unhappy about losing? They should bench him for thinking that the goal is to win football games.

Some former Packers coach once stated: Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing.

I'm getting tired of those who think its acceptable to lose cause we're young and inexperienced.

Belechick took over a playoff team years ago and has kept it competitive through alot of personal changes. He didn't see the need to gut a team and start over. TT took over a playoff team and has gutted it to its current level. Blame Sherman all you want but the Packers were in the playoffs the year before TT took over. The same people who are now claiming patience are probably the same people who were impatient with Sherman. At least Sherman won football games. TT only knows how to lose football games.

I'm not a Sherman apologist. He needed to be told a few things but TT decided for himself to put us through some losing seasons in the hopes that it would work out. Sherman never accepted losing. TT doesn't seem to mind losing.

Who cares if TT gets the Packers back to the playoffs? Why do us fans have to suffer through multiple losing seasons when we see other teams just reload and stay competitive?

The goal of every single player and coach is to WIN. That didn't happen today. The team didn't achieve their goal. Noone is happy about that. I can assure you that Mike McCarthy doesn't consider this loss "acceptable." He said after last game that the only way a team moves forward is through winning. Today wasn't a step forward in his mind. The team will apparently work through their bye week as a result of their current status.

What you don't seem to understand, Brainerd, is that the GM must take a more strategic view of the franchise than the coaches and players. His responsibility is to put the team in position to win CHAMPIONSHIPS. I could care less about being merely "competitive," as your sights are apparently set on.

What you also don't seem to understand Brainerd, is the business side of how to go about putting a franchise in position to win CHAMPIONSHIPS.

Mike Sherman traded away picks to get the ONE GUY that he absolutely had to have in order to keep the team competitive for the short term because he deemed the franchise in position to compete for a Super Bowl. Well, he fell short of that goal, and now the franchise is paying the price for that.

Unfortunately for all of us, Sherman's draft picks consistently have turned out to be flops. The third and fourth year talent that should be coming into its own on this team is practically non-existent. That's Mike Sherman's fault. You know, the guy who "never accepted losing"?

And he mortgaged future years in order to sign guys like Joe Johnson and Cletidus Hunt to big free agent contracts, putting this franchise in a dire cap position where the team had to constantly restructure players' deals to get under the cap or let them go. Mike Sherman mortgaged the future to get wins, and it burned both him, and our franchise, right in the ass. Yeah, that guy that doesn't accept losing...

Also, you are revising history with your comments about Bellichick. He was 5-11 in his first year taking over the helm of the Patriots. He and the GM in New England understood that you have to draft and sign VALUE in order to win consistently in this league, and their franchise should be held up on a pedestal as a model of how to build a winner.

TT is using that model, Brainerd, but you just have to have the vision to see beyond the hand in front of your face to understand it.

I don't want to lose either - at all. That's why I am very glad to have a GM that understands how to build a consistent winner - the right way. You know, the Bellichick way? Or maybe, the Pittsburgh Steelers way? Or maybe, the Seattle Seahawks way? Or maybe, the Chicago Bears way? Look at everyone of those franchises, and you'll see that Ted Thompson is modeling his decisions after those models of success.

Doing what Sherman did is what got us to where we are today. TT, unfortunately, has to fix it and get things going in the right direction again. He's doing that, and that's why some people are OK with a loss today. There's a bigger picture to look at Brainerd.

Quit being a pretentious boob, Vince. You are not any smarter than the rest of us on this board, Vince. Your opinion carrys no more weight than any other, Vince. Although I fear you think it does, Vince.

You are using Sherman the GM as a whipping post to prove a point that is soley based on your opinion, Vince. Quit talking down to people in condesceding ways, Vince. Throwing around a bunch of facts is just throwing around a bunch of facts, Vince. Nothing you stated to make yourself look smart was pertinent to my post, Vince. I stated I wasn't a Sherman apologist and you throw around a bunch of facts to prove Sherman incompetant. Why, Vince?

Not everyone who disagrees with you is an idiot, Vince. Think of me what you want, Vince.
Brainerd, I think you're wrong in your opinion. That's all. I'm not trying to talk down to you, just challenge your statements, which I disagree with.

You state that you don't think we should have to suffer through losing. I'm interested in what you would have done differently that supports your contention.

[FavreChild]

OK, I know that I was exaggerating. :wink:

But still, I fail to be impressed.

[Brainerd]

Ok. So Favre is the only one unhappy about losing? They should bench him for thinking that the goal is to win football games.

Some former Packers coach once stated: Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing.

I'm getting tired of those who think its acceptable to lose cause we're young and inexperienced.

Belechick took over a playoff team years ago and has kept it competitive through alot of personal changes. He didn't see the need to gut a team and start over. TT took over a playoff team and has gutted it to its current level. Blame Sherman all you want but the Packers were in the playoffs the year before TT took over. The same people who are now claiming patience are probably the same people who were impatient with Sherman. At least Sherman won football games. TT only knows how to lose football games.

I'm not a Sherman apologist. He needed to be told a few things but TT decided for himself to put us through some losing seasons in the hopes that it would work out. Sherman never accepted losing. TT doesn't seem to mind losing.

Who cares if TT gets the Packers back to the playoffs? Why do us fans have to suffer through multiple losing seasons when we see other teams just reload and stay competitive?

The goal of every single player and coach is to WIN. That didn't happen today. The team didn't achieve their goal. Noone is happy about that. I can assure you that Mike McCarthy doesn't consider this loss "acceptable." He said after last game that the only way a team moves forward is through winning. Today wasn't a step forward in his mind. The team will apparently work through their bye week as a result of their current status.

What you don't seem to understand, Brainerd, is that the GM must take a more strategic view of the franchise than the coaches and players. His responsibility is to put the team in position to win CHAMPIONSHIPS. I could care less about being merely "competitive," as your sights are apparently set on.

What you also don't seem to understand Brainerd, is the business side of how to go about putting a franchise in position to win CHAMPIONSHIPS.

Mike Sherman traded away picks to get the ONE GUY that he absolutely had to have in order to keep the team competitive for the short term because he deemed the franchise in position to compete for a Super Bowl. Well, he fell short of that goal, and now the franchise is paying the price for that.

Unfortunately for all of us, Sherman's draft picks consistently have turned out to be flops. The third and fourth year talent that should be coming into its own on this team is practically non-existent. That's Mike Sherman's fault. You know, the guy who "never accepted losing"?

And he mortgaged future years in order to sign guys like Joe Johnson and Cletidus Hunt to big free agent contracts, putting this franchise in a dire cap position where the team had to constantly restructure players' deals to get under the cap or let them go. Mike Sherman mortgaged the future to get wins, and it burned both him, and our franchise, right in the ass. Yeah, that guy that doesn't accept losing...

Also, you are revising history with your comments about Bellichick. He was 5-11 in his first year taking over the helm of the Patriots. He and the GM in New England understood that you have to draft and sign VALUE in order to win consistently in this league, and their franchise should be held up on a pedestal as a model of how to build a winner.

TT is using that model, Brainerd, but you just have to have the vision to see beyond the hand in front of your face to understand it.

I don't want to lose either - at all. That's why I am very glad to have a GM that understands how to build a consistent winner - the right way. You know, the Bellichick way? Or maybe, the Pittsburgh Steelers way? Or maybe, the Seattle Seahawks way? Or maybe, the Chicago Bears way? Look at everyone of those franchises, and you'll see that Ted Thompson is modeling his decisions after those models of success.

Doing what Sherman did is what got us to where we are today. TT, unfortunately, has to fix it and get things going in the right direction again. He's doing that, and that's why some people are OK with a loss today. There's a bigger picture to look at Brainerd.

Quit being a pretentious boob, Vince. You are not any smarter than the rest of us on this board, Vince. Your opinion carrys no more weight than any other, Vince. Although I fear you think it does, Vince.

You are using Sherman the GM as a whipping post to prove a point that is soley based on your opinion, Vince. Quit talking down to people in condesceding ways, Vince. Throwing around a bunch of facts is just throwing around a bunch of facts, Vince. Nothing you stated to make yourself look smart was pertinent to my post, Vince. I stated I wasn't a Sherman apologist and you throw around a bunch of facts to prove Sherman incompetant. Why, Vince?

Not everyone who disagrees with you is an idiot, Vince. Think of me what you want, Vince.
Brainerd, I think you're wrong in your opinion. That's all. I'm not trying to talk down to you, just challenge your statements, which I disagree with.

You state that you don't think we should have to suffer through losing. I'm interested in what you would have done differently that supports your contention.

See this thread. (http://www.packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?t=4162/url)

[pbmax]

3rd and long is our nemesis. The defensive staff did better, but I still shake my head at some things I see. We stopped the Rams on 1st down most of the day, but we still get torched a lot on 3rd and long. Yet, in the second half what did we do: the few times we blitzed it was on 1st and 10, and we got gashed for some runs. 3rd and long. Still no blitzes. Still no pressure. Still gave up completions--although not as many as the first four weeks.
I am pretty sure I saw a blitz twice in 3rd and long and they got beat each time.

[packrat]

Brain, you say "Sherman never accepted losing"? Then why did he tolerate losers for so long--like B.J.Sander as the second punter on the squad when he wasn't good enough to cut it as the first string punter? Like stiffs such as Hunt getting humongous contracts and being kept on long after their lack of performance was obvious? If you don't cut second rate players, that means you ARE accepting losing.

[Brainerd]

Brain, you say "Sherman never accepted losing"? Then why did he tolerate losers for so long--like B.J.Sander as the second punter on the squad when he wasn't good enough to cut it as the first string punter? Like stiffs such as Hunt getting humongous contracts and being kept on long after their lack of performance was obvious? If you don't cut second rate players, that means you ARE accepting losing.

I also stated that I'm not a Sherman apologist. He made mistakes. What is the difference between Sherman the GM and TT the GM? Sherman the GM won games, TT the GM doesn't.

All GM's have made mistakes. Sherman was a lousy GM but he did win with his lousy picks and bad luck in FA. You think TT has made no mistakes, fine. I don't.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I am pretty sure I saw a blitz twice in 3rd and long and they got beat each time.

When? I saw three blitzes on 1st and 10. I don't remember seeing any on 3rd and long.

[australianpackerbacker]

Brain, you say "Sherman never accepted losing"? Then why did he tolerate losers for so long--like B.J.Sander as the second punter on the squad when he wasn't good enough to cut it as the first string punter? Like stiffs such as Hunt getting humongous contracts and being kept on long after their lack of performance was obvious? If you don't cut second rate players, that means you ARE accepting losing.

I also stated that I'm not a Sherman apologist. He made mistakes. What is the difference between Sherman the GM and TT the GM? Sherman the GM won games, TT the GM doesn't.

All GM's have made mistakes. Sherman was a lousy GM but he did win with his lousy picks and bad luck in FA. You think TT has made no mistakes, fine. I don't.

My God how stupid could someone be.

You claim that Sherman the GM won games, which is correct, but your too self absorbed in blaming TT that you dont realise whose talent Sherman won with, because it obviously wasnt his draft picks that led to those division titles. Now your trying to put TT in his position but you fail to realise that we have more fingers than sherman had draft picks on his team at the beginning of last year, from ALL of his drafts.

And you expect a new GM to still win with no consistent flow of playmakers, like there was, say, under the guy who Sherman replaced as GM?

[Fritz]

As I have said before, and will say again, a GM's impact is less immediately felt in terms of draft picks than a coach's impact. To that end, it's only by the third year that you can really begin to get a handle on a GM's ability to draft. It's too early to say, therefore, about TT in terms of the draft. Who's to say how Marviel Underwood and Junius Coston will or won't pan out? Again, Mike Wahle was considered by many to be a bust until his third year.

So, when you look at Mike Sherman's three drafts - players who would now be in their third, fourth, and fifth years - you can get a pretty good sense of how he did as a draft guru. Let's see...there was Javon Walker (a great pick in terms of talent and production), Aaron Kampman (a very solid pick), Nick Barnett (depends on whom you ask), Al Harris via a second round pick (good corner), Corey Williams (part time guy), Cullen Jenkins (part time guy), Colin Coles (part time guy), and Scott Wells (looks to be solid). That's eight guys in three drafts, five of whom are starting material. Five starters in three drafts? Not so good.

And these are all guys that should be the core of the team. Therefore, when you look at the core now, it's all guys that were drafted by Ron Wolf - aging vets. So no wonder this team sits at 1-4, with this weird mix of old vets and rookies.

I do think you can compare some aspects of coaching. One thing I'd be curious to know (um, Patler, you there?) is how this year's Packer team stacks up in terms of penalties and turnover ratio compared to Sherman's last two teams.

I sure wish they'd won Sunday. But I'm not ready to slit my wrists, either.