Lori Nickel article - count the errors!

[Patler]

Wow, what a sloppy article on details. As a Monday morning game, try to identify as many factual errors in it as you can:

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=519320

Note: If you are coming to this thread late, and read the article sometime after about noon on Monday, you may wonder where some of the comments that follow came from. They won't match with the article. Well, the article was revised several times throughout the morning to correct some of the most obvious errors. You still might find this thread interesting, to understand how poorly the article was first written, and even what errors still remain. You might even find more errors that we have not yet found!

[Patler]

I'll start with the most obvious, (there are others):

"Wolf has seven draft picks still kicking around Lombardi Ave.: Brett Favre,..."

Wolf didn't draft Favre, he traded for him!

[Rastak]

Ahman Green wasn't a free agent pickup......he was traded to the Packers I believe.....

[Iron Mike]

Ahman Green wasn't a free agent pickup......he was traded to the Packers I believe.....

Yep....for Fred Vinson.

[Patler]

Ahman Green wasn't a free agent pickup......he was traded to the Packers I believe.....

Ding, Ding, Ding! - Thats two!
(Heck of a thing, when a Viking troll knows more about the Packers than one of the Packer writers at the State's largest newspaper!) :D :D

[MJZiggy]

I found a few, but I would need the accompanying graphic (?) to be sure about them.

[BallHawk]

What year was Wolf's last draft?

[Bretsky]

What year was Wolf's last draft?

I believe it was 2001, which was the disasterous draft where we traded Hasslebeck and out 17th pick in the draft for the #10 pick (Jamal Reynolds) and a 3rd or 4th (which turnout to be be Torrence Marshall). Then in round 2 we selected the Fraud Ferguson over Chambers.

Keep in mind Wolf had also announced he was leaving as GM before this draft and Sherman was named the future GM so there is some debate over who ran the show for final selections. But this is certainly the last one he at least had a major hand in.

B

[MadtownPacker]

What year was Wolf's last draft?The too small jamal one but seems like many think Sherm was pulling the trigger with a silencer.

[BallHawk]

Ok, in that case, Ferguson and Martin were drafted by Wolf.

[MJZiggy]

I know I'll catch hell for this, but it's Cleditus, not Cletidus.

[KYPack]

Lori Nickel and Silverstein are two of the sorriest excuses for sportswriters in newspaper history.

The WORST article I've ever read was one in the pre-season by Nickel "explaining" the ZBS. She did it with Jags and he simply blew smioke and she swallowed it hook, line ans sinker.

Lori needs to go to another part of the paper before she totally loses her credibility. The JSO's level of writing has eroded so seriously over the past few years, it ain't funny.

[BallHawk]

I know I'll catch hell for this, but it's Cleditus, not Cletidus.

Ok, I'll play that way, too. :wink:

Lori wrote: Thompson has cut dozens players or simply let their contracts expire. Others left in free agency or trades.

I believe she/he(I don't know what gender) is missing an of there.

[Patler]

I know I'll catch hell for this, but it's Cleditus, not Cletidus.

:?: Are you sure? The Packer yearbooks have always used "Cletidus".

[MadtownPacker]

:?: Are you sure? The Packer yearbooks have always used "Cletidus".
Too bad they didnt get his name wrong on his checks. :razz:

[MJZiggy]

Sorry Patler, Googled to check it and it's seems jsonline's been spelling it wrong for years as well as a number of other folks. Try it, there's a long list.

[Patler]

I have at least 6 more errors or omissions from the article and the accompanying chart, concerning the acquisition or loss of players.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Sorry Patler, Googled to check it and it's seems jsonline's been spelling it wrong for years as well as a number of other folks. Try it, there's a long list.

I've only seen it spelled Cletidus. NFL.com even has it as Cletidus on their 1999 draft page.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/years/1999

[Patler]

Sorry Patler, Googled to check it and it's seems jsonline's been spelling it wrong for years as well as a number of other folks. Try it, there's a long list.

So which is correct? Were the Packer yearbooks wrong? I have no idea myself?

[MJZiggy]

His NFL Player Card and all that has Cletidus, but check this out.

http://www.google.com/search?q=Cleditus+hunt&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official

[Patler]

His NFL Player Card and all that has Cletidus, but check this out.

http://www.google.com/search?q=Cleditus+hunt&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official

I still don't get your point. There are 755 "hits" for Cleditus Hunt, but 34,000 "hits" for Cletidus Hunt.

Anyone an email buddy of Mr. Hunts? :D
We HAVE to get to the bottom of this!

[MJZiggy]

My point is that Cletidus is the correct spelling and that I shouldn't use google to check these things.

[Patler]

My point is that Cletidus is the correct spelling and that I shouldn't use google to check these things.

That's OK, I once saw it spelled something like "Cledius" in an article, because that is the way most have pronounced it!

[MJZiggy]

I know I'm not the perfect editor, but how does THAT get through editing at a major newspaper.

[Patler]

Good question. And as I wrote above, I still have at least six more "mistakes" in the Nickel article that no one has yet mentioned. Each of these jumped out at me as I read the article the first time, with no study or re-reading of the article. There may be even more than that.

[BF4MVP]

I'll start with the most obvious, (there are others):

"Wolf has seven draft picks still kicking around Lombardi Ave.: Brett Favre,..."

Wolf didn't draft Favre, he traded for him!
The article says:


Wolf has six draft picks still kicking around Lombardi Ave.: William Henderson, Mark Tauscher, Chad Clifton, Donald Driver, Bubba Franks and Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila, and two Wolf trades in Brett Favre and Ahman Green and free agent Rob Davis.

[BallHawk]

Ahmad Carroll was drafted in 2004, not 2001.

[BallHawk]

JT O'Sullivan was acquired in the McKenzie trade, not FA.

[BF4MVP]

Ahman Green wasn't a free agent pickup......he was traded to the Packers I believe.....

Wolf has six draft picks still kicking around Lombardi Ave.: William Henderson, Mark Tauscher, Chad Clifton, Donald Driver, Bubba Franks and Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila, and two Wolf trades in Brett Favre and Ahman Green and free agent Rob Davis.

[BallHawk]

R-Kal Truluck was acquired through a trade with the Chiefs, not Free Agency.

A 5th and a 6th was given for R-Kal, I might add. What the fuck was Sherman thinking? :crazy:

[BF4MVP]

I know I'll catch hell for this, but it's Cleditus, not Cletidus.
here (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/133314) is his nfl.com player page...

I'm not trying to defend Lori Nickel here, but the only error I see is no "accompanying graphic"....

[Patler]

I'll start with the most obvious, (there are others):

"Wolf has seven draft picks still kicking around Lombardi Ave.: Brett Favre,..."

Wolf didn't draft Favre, he traded for him!
The article says:


Wolf has six draft picks still kicking around Lombardi Ave.: William Henderson, Mark Tauscher, Chad Clifton, Donald Driver, Bubba Franks and Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila, and two Wolf trades in Brett Favre and Ahman Green and free agent Rob Davis.

That's interesting! They have corrected both the reference to Favre and the reference to Green from what the article had earlier this morning. I printed it. Originally, it stated:

"Wolf has seven draft picks still kicking around Lombardi Ave.: Brett Favre, William Henderson, Mark Tauscher, Chad Clifton, Donald Driver, Bubba Franks and Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila, and two distinctly Wolf free agent acquisitions in Ahman Green and Rob Davis."

It was wrong about favre and Green, as Rastak also noted.

I wonder if they will pick up on the numerous other errors and correct those as well

[BF4MVP]

Hmmmm...I don't see Truluck's or O'Sullivan's name mentioned in the article...

I don't see anything about Carroll being drafted in 2001 either....

[BF4MVP]

I'll start with the most obvious, (there are others):

"Wolf has seven draft picks still kicking around Lombardi Ave.: Brett Favre,..."

Wolf didn't draft Favre, he traded for him!
The article says:


Wolf has six draft picks still kicking around Lombardi Ave.: William Henderson, Mark Tauscher, Chad Clifton, Donald Driver, Bubba Franks and Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila, and two Wolf trades in Brett Favre and Ahman Green and free agent Rob Davis.

That's interesting! They have corrected both the reference to favre and the reference to Green from what the article had earlier this morning. I printed it. Originally, it stated:

"Wolf has seven draft picks still kicking around Lombardi Ave.: Brett Favre, William Henderson, Mark Tauscher, Chad Clifton, Donald Driver, Bubba Franks and Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila, and two distinctly Wolf free agent acquisitions in Ahman Green and Rob Davis."

It was wrong about favre and Green, as Rastak also noted.

I wonder if they will pick up on the numerous other errors and correct those as well
Ohhhhhhhh. Well, I humbly apologize, Patler. I didn't see the article soon enough I guess :oops:

[Patler]

Hmmmm...I don't see Truluck's or O'Sullivan's name mentioned in the article...

I don't see anything about Carroll being drafted in 2001 either....

Some are mentioned in the accompanying chart.

[BF4MVP]

Hmmmm...I don't see Truluck's or O'Sullivan's name mentioned in the article...

I don't see anything about Carroll being drafted in 2001 either....

Some are mentioned in the accompanying chart.
Gah..I really gotta look more carefully :oops: :oops: :oops:

Yeah, that is bad. And the fact that they even had to correct those errors about Favre and Green shows how sloppy an article it is....

[Patler]

They have attempted to fix another error, but didn't do it completely. Originally it stated:

"Only seven players who were drafted by Sherman remain in a Packers uniform: Robert Ferguson, David Martin, Scott Wells, Nick Barnett, Aaron Kampman, Corey Williams and Kevin Barry. Free agent Colin Cole was Sherman's, too."

Barry was a free agent, not drafted. Now the article states:

"Only seven players who were drafted by Sherman remain in a Packers uniform: Robert Ferguson, David Martin, Scott Wells, Nick Barnett, Aaron Kampman and Corey Williams. Free agents Colin Cole and Kevin Barry were Sherman's, too."

They forgot to change the "seven" to "six" when they removed Barry from the list of drafted players!

[BF4MVP]

They have attempted to fix another error, but didn't do it completely. Originally it stated:

"Only seven players who were drafted by Sherman remain in a Packers uniform: Robert Ferguson, David Martin, Scott Wells, Nick Barnett, Aaron Kampman, Corey Williams and Kevin Barry. Free agent Colin Cole was Sherman's, too."

Barry was a free agent, not drafted. Now the article states:

"Only seven players who were drafted by Sherman remain in a Packers uniform: Robert Ferguson, David Martin, Scott Wells, Nick Barnett, Aaron Kampman and Corey Williams. Free agents Colin Cole and Kevin Barry were Sherman's, too."

They forgot to change the "seven" to "six" when they removed Barry from the list of drafted players!
hahahaha nice catch :D

This article is terrible :lol:

[MJZiggy]

As he is now with the Chargers, shouldn't Bhawoh Jue be mentioned here somewhere or did he leave before TT got here? He'd have been one of the first gone if it did fall that way.

[Patler]

As he is now with the Chargers, shouldn't Bhawoh Jue be mentioned here somewhere or did he leave before TT got here? He'd have been one of the first gone if it did fall that way.

Yup, Jue was a free agent TT elected to let go. He should have been mentioned, too.

[Patler]

The article still states:

"The big free-agent losses, Mike Wahle, Marco Rivera and Darren Sharper two years ago, were lured away by substantially higher paydays."

Neither Wahle nor Sharper was a free agent. Each was under contract and could have been retained if the Packers paid what was required. Both were released by the Packers, and only then became free agents.

[BF4MVP]

It's incredible :shock:

[Patler]

The chart lists both Wahle and Sharper under "Players Leaving Through Free Agency" not under "Players Released". Both were released, just like Carroll, Thomas and others, but for very different reasons. Still, they were released.

[Patler]

The chart lists "Player Traded", and mentions only Walker.

No mention was made of the trade of Sherman draftee Chris Johnson for 2005 starting linebacker Robert Thomas, and the subsequent departure of Thomas this off season.

No mention was made of the Steve Morley trade to the Jets for a conditional draft pick in 2007. Morley was another of the "sleeper" acquisitions by Sherman that did not pan out.

[MJZiggy]

JS should hire you to be their fact checker...

[Patler]

They have attempted to fix another error, but didn't do it completely. Originally it stated:

"Only seven players who were drafted by Sherman remain in a Packers uniform: Robert Ferguson, David Martin, Scott Wells, Nick Barnett, Aaron Kampman, Corey Williams and Kevin Barry. Free agent Colin Cole was Sherman's, too."

Barry was a free agent, not drafted. Now the article states:

"Only seven players who were drafted by Sherman remain in a Packers uniform: Robert Ferguson, David Martin, Scott Wells, Nick Barnett, Aaron Kampman and Corey Williams. Free agents Colin Cole and Kevin Barry were Sherman's, too."

They forgot to change the "seven" to "six" when they removed Barry from the list of drafted players!
hahahaha nice catch :D

This article is terrible :lol:

I see they have now fixed this error too. As of noon, or so, "seven" was changed to "six". Heck, by the end of the day it might be a reasonably good article!

[MJZiggy]

This is a fun thread...

[KYPack]

With all the information now available on the net, packer sites, Blogs, etc, JS has to get it's ass in gear.

I wouldn't be shocked to see Nickel or Silverstein replaced, re-assigned or something in the near future.

[Patler]

Nickel should stick with the personal interest, get-to-know the player articles. She does OK with those. I have found many to be interesting and informative, even if a bit sappy. She simply makes too many errors when she tries to write factual articles about the Packers. Others do too.

The premise of this article was good, and could have been interesting if done well. But in reviewing the makeover of the roster, it has to be accurate to be credible. The article also makes too much of insignificant moves. In the chart, if the intent was to be thorough, too many players were missed. If the intent was to hit the significant players, why list all the insignificant street free agents signed in the middle of the year, most at minimum salaries? Who really cares that TT has released Jason Horton, Ben Steele or Michael Hawthorne, etc. Those kinds of players come and go on a regular basis. Sherman may have cut them too, if he were still GM. Is it really a big deal that TT did not re-sign a 40 year old FA punter (Bryan Barker), or that late round picks like Curtain were let go after a couple injury plagued years? Very few 6th and 7th round picks are still around for a third season with the team that drafted them.

The important aspect of the article is lost in the insignificant details. The fact that the drafts from 2001 to 2004 yielded only 6 players currently on the roster is huge in understanding the lack of talent in GB. A review of the makeup of a few other teams would have been very interesting. On average, how many players drafted from 2001-2004 do other teams have? I suspect it is more than the six in Green Bay.

[BallHawk]

But, I mean, Carroll in 2001?! A 10 year old would probably know that was wrong. And here we have a grown women who is getting paid, yet she still can't get it right, even with the tools of the interenet all around her. Pathetic.

[Patler]

I think we have identified at least 11 errors in the article, including the following erroneous statements:

1. Favre drafted by Wolf.
2. Green signed as a "FA".
3. Barry "drafted".
4. Wahle a free agent loss, when he actually was released while under contract.
5. Sharper a free agent loss, when he too was released while under contract.
6. J.T. O'Sullivan acquired as a free agent.
7. R-Kal Trulock being acquired as a free agent.
8. Carrol being drafted in 2001.

... and the following ommissions that are relevant to the story:

9. No mention of the loss of Jue as a free agent.
10. No mention of the trade of Sherman pick Chris Johnson.
11. No mention of the trade of Sherman acquisition Steve Morley.

Any high school teachers out there? What grade would you give the reporter for this "research project"?

[KYPack]

Patler,

How could you misspell R-Kal Truluck? (R-Kal Trulock)

He is in my top ten of "most hated Packers".

God, Shermie was SUCH a terrible GM.

Can you imagine how much other GM's (real ones) were laughing behind his back?

[MJZiggy]

They might have been, KY, but for a number of years they were probably dumbfounded as well because he kept beating them...

[lord favre]

They might have been, KY, but for a number of years they were probably dumbfounded as well because Brtett Favre kept beating them...

Yeah, true....

[Rastak]

They might have been, KY, but for a number of years they were probably dumbfounded as well because Brtett Favre kept beating them...

Yeah, true....


All by himself?

[lord favre]

They might have been, KY, but for a number of years they were probably dumbfounded as well because Brtett Favre kept beating them...

Yeah, true....


All by himself?

According to John Madden, yes... :mrgreen:

[Rastak]

They might have been, KY, but for a number of years they were probably dumbfounded as well because Brtett Favre kept beating them...

Yeah, true....


All by himself?

According to John Madden, yes... :mrgreen:


Oh yea, now that you qualified it I'll agree completely......I'm sure John totally believes that.

[lord favre]

They might have been, KY, but for a number of years they were probably dumbfounded as well because Brtett Favre kept beating them...

Yeah, true....


All by himself?

According to John Madden, yes... :mrgreen:


Oh yea, now that you qualified it I'll agree completely......I'm sure John totally believes that.

In all seriousness my point was a Brett favre in his prime could mask a lot of personnel mistakes and make a less talented team remain competetive.

Keep in mind I am a Bears fan and loathe Favre but am not blinded by my hatred enough not to recognize what a talent he was. As a Bucks fan I felt the same way about Jordan...

there was enough left over talent to carry Sherm a few years, not unlike Wannestedts early years with the Bears. Sherman just got a few more years out of Wolfs team because of Favres presence. Nothing will kill a team faster than poor drafting and nothing hurts a team longer than bad drafting. Even with free agency you still need to draft well, it's how you keep the salary cap manageable.

Sherman made horrible gaffs in both free agency and in the draft...I honestly cannot think of one impact player drafted by Sherms..and by impact I mean a difference maker not a serviceable pro.

[MJZiggy]

How does one become a Bear fan AND a Buck fan?

By the way, I have to give you the Madden bit. That man uses Favre's pic the way other men use porn...

[lord favre]

How does one become a Bear fan AND a Buck fan?

By the way, I have to give you the Madden bit. That man uses Favre's pic the way other men use porn...

I'm a Brewer, Badger, Buck and Bear fan...must be a "B" thing?

I grew up in Racine during the 70's and 80's and loathed my step-dad watching the sorry Packers of the time getting killed. I was pretty much a Redskins fan until my Bear loving uncle got me watching Payton. I learned to love the bears as much as I loved Walter, then them winning a SB when I was 14 cemented it...much like a lot of the 20-30year old Packs fans here.

[HarveyWallbangers]

After this thread, I read her articles with special care to notice any mistakes.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=522434


With his team on Miami's 40-yard line, coach Mike McCarthy called for a commonly used play from receiver Donald Driver, a reverse run. Driver ran about 30 yards behind the line before he avoided a tackle and curled up the sideline for a 6-yard gain.

30 yards behind the line of scrimmage to avoid a tackle. He went backwards, but he hardly went 30 yards backwards. Anybody notice any more?

[HarveyWallbangers]

The importance of the play cannot be overstated. Four snaps later, Brett Favre threw the clinching touchdown to David Martin. It gave the Packers a 10-point lead with 5 minutes 45 second left and put the Dolphins in the rearview mirror.

The TD actually happened with 6 minutes and 11 seconds left.

[MJZiggy]

Just a technical little tidbit, but a reverse run is a commonly used play for DD?

[Patler]

Before the victory at Miami, the Packers had gone for it on fourth down just five times, converting two. So the fourth-down attempts in Miami were gutsy. With Rayner's big leg and an advantageous wind, McCarthy actually considered going for the field goal on third down, but instead pushed forward with his offense. The fourth-quarter conversion put the game away.

Why would he have attempted the fieldgoal on THIRD down?

[Bossman641]

Before the victory at Miami, the Packers had gone for it on fourth down just five times, converting two. So the fourth-down attempts in Miami were gutsy. With Rayner's big leg and an advantageous wind, McCarthy actually considered going for the field goal on third down, but instead pushed forward with his offense. The fourth-quarter conversion put the game away.

Why would he have attempted the fieldgoal on THIRD down?

I have no idea at all. You do that at the end of tie games when you're worried about a botched snap. I have a hard time believing that McCarthy has so little confidence in the offense that he would rather kick a FG on 3rd down to go up 6 then try and drive down the field. Seems like a mistake in the article for sure.

[vince]

After this thread, I read her articles with special care to notice any mistakes.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=522434


With his team on Miami's 40-yard line, coach Mike McCarthy called for a commonly used play from receiver Donald Driver, a reverse run. Driver ran about 30 yards behind the line before he avoided a tackle and curled up the sideline for a 6-yard gain.

30 yards behind the line of scrimmage to avoid a tackle. He went backwards, but he hardly went 30 yards backwards. Anybody notice any more?
She probably meant that Driver did a lot of running behind the LOS, which indicates the riskiness of the play... not that he ran 30 yds back.

[falco]

After this thread, I read her articles with special care to notice any mistakes.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=522434


With his team on Miami's 40-yard line, coach Mike McCarthy called for a commonly used play from receiver Donald Driver, a reverse run. Driver ran about 30 yards behind the line before he avoided a tackle and curled up the sideline for a 6-yard gain.

30 yards behind the line of scrimmage to avoid a tackle. He went backwards, but he hardly went 30 yards backwards. Anybody notice any more?
She probably meant that Driver did a lot of running behind the LOS, which indicates the riskiness of the play... not that he ran 30 yds back.

Agreed...most likely 30 yards perpindicular to the LOS.

[vince]

After this thread, I read her articles with special care to notice any mistakes.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=522434


With his team on Miami's 40-yard line, coach Mike McCarthy called for a commonly used play from receiver Donald Driver, a reverse run. Driver ran about 30 yards behind the line before he avoided a tackle and curled up the sideline for a 6-yard gain.

30 yards behind the line of scrimmage to avoid a tackle. He went backwards, but he hardly went 30 yards backwards. Anybody notice any more?
She probably meant that Driver did a lot of running behind the LOS, which indicates the riskiness of the play... not that he ran 30 yds back.

Agreed...most likely 30 yards perpindicular to the LOS.

Actually, it would be (roughly) parallel to the LOS, not perpendicular. Perpendicular would be straight "north and south" in football vernacular.

[mraynrand]

Hi all,

You should tune in tonight when Lifetime Network runs their 2 hour made-for-TV movie about Lori Nickel, called "Writing in Cars with Boys." From the press release: "A warm-hearted story based on the life of 'Journalist' Lori Nickel, a sports collumnist for the Journal Sentinal in Milwaukee, WI. Lori battles the sexism of the football world, her mother's encroaching Alzheimer's disease, and the loneliness of life without that special someone with whom to share the ups and downs. Lori meets a hunky-but-sensitive guy, but can she make a relationship work amidst deadlines, on-line article re-writes, the male-dominated world of pro football, her family's expectations that she'll 'settle down' and raise a family, and bad hair days?" Tune in to find out!




http://designarchives.aiga.org/img/media/400_m.jpg

http://www.highschooljournalism.org/Data/Authors/nickellori.jpg