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motife
10-24-2006, 05:27 AM
Rating the Packers vs. Dolphins: Having some fun in the sun
Packers able to overcome several obstacles
Posted: Oct. 23, 2006
On the Packers
Bob McGinn

Green Bay - They had to wear their green jerseys in tropical heat. They had no time to prepare for the shocking absence of Chad Clifton because of the flu. And they were playing a team with its back to the wall.

On Sunday, the deck was stacked against the Packers at Dolphin Stadium. But after surviving Miami's best punch, they took control in the second half with a flurry of sterling individual efforts and pulled off a sizable upset.

Here is a rating of the Packers against the Dolphins, with their 1 to 5 football totals in parentheses:


RECEIVERS (4½)
Greg Jennings paid for almost playing too big for his body in the final 20 seconds of the first half. Showing no regard for life or limb, Jennings went into a crowd, yanked a 14-yard completion away from S Jason Allen and suffered an ankle injury that ended his afternoon. With Robert Ferguson out, that left Donald Driver, Ruvell Martin and Chris Francies. Of the 14 passes thrown to Driver, he caught 10 for 93 yards. He tormented FS Renaldo Hill, who was pressed into slot duty against Driver because of injuries, and was overmatched. Driver made one of the greatest plays of his career in the third quarter on a corner route in which he outfought Allen and Hill in the end zone for a 34-yard TD. Two officials ruled it incomplete but Driver pleaded his case to Mike McCarthy and earned a hard-to-win reversal via replay. With the outcome in doubt midway in the fourth quarter, Driver again proved worthy of McCarthy's trust by circumventing DE Vonnie Holliday for 6 yards on a fourth-and-1 reverse. You had to like Ruvell Martin's toughness. He delivered a nasty crack-back block on LB Donnie Spragan and battled for the ball in tight quarters. The same goes for Francies. David Martin might have had the best game of his career with a spectacular diving catch and a spectacular catch in the end zone of a tipped ball that fell near his shoelaces and should have been intercepted by SS Travares Tillman. Bubba Franks is missing too many blocks.

OFFENSIVE LINE (3½)
Clifton's replacement, Daryn Colledge, might have given up 10 sacks and five tackles for loss to the great Jason Taylor if McCarthy didn't get him off the island that he inexplicably left him on during the first quarter. When McCarthy finally started to scheme ways to protect Colledge, the rookie was fine and the offense clicked. Neither of the rookie guards, Jason Spitz and Tony Moll, played very well. Spitz gave up three "bad" runs, including a third-and-1 play when he committed the cardinal sin of giving up the inside gap and NT Keith Traylor pole-axed Ahman Green. Spitz partially made up for it with a terrific block on LB Zach Thomas that sprung Green for his 70-yard TD. Moll played too high and kept getting bounced in pass protection. C Scott Wells is doing what he can to land a lucrative extension. He was the only lineman without responsibility for a "bad" run, sorted out the multiple Miami fronts for his three rookie linemates, never got run over by Traylor and was more than a match on the second level for Thomas, who had just seven tackles. Mark Tauscher was up and down against DE Kevin Carter, a cagey veteran. He also was overpowered twice by DE Matt Roth.

QUARTERBACKS (4½)
A lesser field general might have gone to pieces after Taylor blind-sided him into a pair of early sack-fumbles. Not Brett Favre. He set out making do as usual. He didn't try a seven-step drop all day. By the onset of the second quarter, the idea was to move the pocket and keep in more blockers to frustrate Taylor. On four of his 14 snaps from shotgun, Favre rolled left and threw effectively, which some quarterbacks just can't do. He went through his progressions, put the ball in good locations for his receivers and didn't throw many bad balls. Well, two interceptions were dropped, but no one's really counting. The Dolphins began to blitz in the second half but Favre hung tough, made some helpful checks at the line and got the better of coordinator Dom Capers.

RUNNING BACKS (4)
Playing his first game in a month, Green played 45 snaps, avoided any fumbling issues and didn't seem rusty. He ran it tough inside, found cutback lanes and gave effort as a blocker. Hill had the angle on the 70-yard TD but didn't have a chance of catching Green, who obviously still can run. FB Brandon Miree (39 snaps) was the target of three passes. However, not a single pass went to a running back. You'd be hard-pressed to find the last time that happened in Green Bay. Vernand Morency had 14 snaps compared with Noah Herron's nine but didn't do much with them. Morency continues to make too many shaky decisions on stretch plays. Miree isn't an explosive blocker but ends up where he's supposed to be.

DEFENSIVE LINE (3)
Immobile Joey Harrington dropped back 66 times but the rush was just average from Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila (five pressures) and Aaron Kampman (3½ pressures). "KGB" didn't get much done until the fourth quarter, when LT Damion McIntosh tired badly. One thing about Kampman (69 snaps) and Gbaja-Biamila (62), they can run all day regardless of conditions. Without injured Cullen Jenkins, the other tackles kept stalling out on their rushes. As usual, the best inside player was Ryan Pickett (47). Corey Williams (45), Colin Cole (38) and Johnny Jolly (20), who made his debut, all were just so-so. Jolly showed impressive instincts by coming off a trap block by LG Jeno James and stuffing RB Ronnie Brown for a short gain. Mike Montgomery (28) was far more effective than rookie Jason Hunter (14). Showing a spin move for one of the first times, the hard-working, improving Montgomery beat McIntosh for a sack.

LINEBACKERS (4)
Another player on the upswing is Brady Poppinga. His interception off a zone pass drop couldn't have been drawn up any better. He found the right spot, caught the ball and brought it back for 21 yards. Later, Poppinga took away Harrington's throwing lane with good end-zone position against Randy McMichael. Nick Barnett made an easy interception of a ball that was dropped by McMichael. Coordinator Bob Sanders sent more linebackers this week and they accounted for six pressures, including 2½ by Poppinga. But Barnett can't afford to miss a tackle at the line as he did on the 44-yard dump-off pass to scrub third-down back Sammy Morris. A.J. Hawk is resilient, strong, dependable and tough. He's highly consistent.

SECONDARY (2½)
Charles Woodson had a banner day. He showed marvelous hand-eye coordination on his 23-yard interception return for a TD. He really had to earn his sack by bursting by McMichael off the edge. And he forced Morris to fumble at the end of his long run. However, he gave up on the 8-yard TD pass to Marty Booker and once again had problems preventing a pedestrian slot receiver (Wes Welker) from getting free just about whenever he wanted. Marquand Manuel missed Morris about 10 yards downfield and then fanned one-on-one against WR Derek Hagans on his 13-yard TD reception. Al Harris was more than adequate in coverage matching up with explosive Chris Chambers but also missed four tackles. Harrington completed six of 11 passes for 91 yards against struggling nickel back Patrick Dendy, who gave way at times for rookie Will Blackmon to debut. Although the Dolphins' net passing total of 381 yards was inflated, it's also true they dropped about seven passes.

KICKERS (4)
Impressive Dave Rayner kicked counters of 42 and 34 yards, kicked non-counters of 55 and 40 yards and averaged 69.7 yards and 4.07 seconds of hang time on seven kickoffs. Jon Ryan's six punts had averages of 43.7 (gross), 36.5 (net) and 3.69 (hang time).

SPECIAL TEAMS (4)
The coverage units swarmed all over Welker, a returner of merit. Despite a strained thigh, Woodson insisted on returning punts and kept making the first tackler miss. Playing William Henderson's wingback spot on the field-goal protection team, Montgomery drew a costly facemask penalty.

OVERALL (4)

Partial
10-24-2006, 07:36 AM
It's interesting to look at the ratings in a win versus a loss. These appear greatly inflated compared to the St. Louis.

MJZiggy
10-24-2006, 07:44 AM
I was thinking the same thing...

Partial
10-24-2006, 07:47 AM
I was thinking the same thing...


great minds :wink: you know what they say

Noodle
10-24-2006, 08:48 AM
It was a tough game to rate because of the mo swing. The Pack kind of stunk it up a bit in the first half, then played with a lot of heart in the second.

Favre's rating seems, in particular to me, a little high. I hear all the time how Brett has never had any good receivers after Sterling and that he's responsible for making studs out of mediocrities. But if it weren't for a some circus catches by Driver and Martin, Favre would've been under 50% with two less TDs. Also, Miami booted two clear picks. And Favre fumbled twice (losing one), though I'd put those on the OL and not on him.

The OL rating also seems a little suspect. Our 3rd down conversion rate was at around 27%, we couldn't move short-yardage piles, and Favre was getting killed early.

I'm not crying about a win. The team and coaches earned it and showed a tremendous amount of character in a hostile environment. But I'm thinking there's a lot of grade inflation going on.

HarveyWallbangers
10-24-2006, 09:03 AM
Also, Miami booted two clear picks.

What two picks? I'd hardly classify the TD pass to Martin as a clear pick. It took a Herculean effort for the defender to even have a chance on the ball. The guy almost made an unbelieveable play. That will happen in any game. While Favre was far from perfect, he had a lot of adversity early with Taylor bearing down him. He didn't wilt. He had some balls that didn't look great throwing down the middle to his TEs, but the Packers didn't have a lot of receivers in their routes--with them helping Colledge out in protection so much--and those guys weren't very open. He actually put those balls in good spots where they wouldn't be intercepted, but gave his guys a shot at getting to the ball and didn't hold onto the ball for too long. While 4 might be too high, he played well enough to win the game against a tough defense with a mismatch at LT and a decimated receiving corps. He deserves at least a 3 rating.

prsnfoto
10-24-2006, 09:08 AM
It was a tough game to rate because of the mo swing. The Pack kind of stunk it up a bit in the first half, then played with a lot of heart in the second.

Favre's rating seems, in particular to me, a little high. I hear all the time how Brett has never had any good receivers after Sterling and that he's responsible for making studs out of mediocrities. But if it weren't for a some circus catches by Driver and Martin, Favre would've been under 50% with two less TDs. Also, Miami booted two clear picks. And Favre fumbled twice (losing one), though I'd put those on the OL and not on him.

The OL rating also seems a little suspect. Our 3rd down conversion rate was at around 27%, we couldn't move short-yardage piles, and Favre was getting killed early.


Favre's rating is fair considering he is always under pressure look how many times he is in the shotgun or rolling out to save his life, if Harrington had this line he would curl up in the fetal position and cry. I do see improvement in the run blocking but this line is still the worst since poor Lynn Dickey's days without Favre at QB the koolaid drinkers would see that, Rodgers would be out for the season already and Favre will to if Clifton misses more games. Note to Colledge you are the blindside protection if you get beat you fucking trip the guy or horsecollar him or even pull out the numchucks from under your bellyfat and throw them around Jason Taylors neck whatever you never let him do that to your QB. He didn't even attempt to block him on either play and his career will be short if that shit keeps up.

I'm not crying about a win. The team and coaches earned it and showed a tremendous amount of character in a hostile environment. But I'm thinking there's a lot of grade inflation going on.

run pMc
10-24-2006, 10:08 AM
Yep, grade inflation.

I thought the TD pass to Martin was a real gamble. I've seen that kind of throw end in momentum-killing INT's. I thought Ruvell and Francies showed some awareness and spark for being backups. The O line was inconsistent. They kept in extra blockers, which buys time but can also make it tougher for the receivers to get open and the QB to find them if the D only rushes 4. No knock on ARod, but he couldn't do what Favre is doing with this team right now. Favre's accuracy was so-so, and it wasn't his 'A' game but he made mostly good decisions (and a few risky ones).

The D line was OK...seemed like they sent 5 or 6 guys to pressure and unsettle Joey often. Pickett played well, the others were just guys. Kampman seemed to pressure Joey more than KGB. The D line needs an upgrade in the offseason along with the secondary. I found myself holding my breath every time Joey Harrington -- Joey Harrington!!! -- dropped back to pass. Woodson played a decent game. Harris was OK, Dendy vs. Carroll is a wash. Collins & Manuel were so-so, with Collins playing better. The LB's played well, with the exception of the Sammy Morris play and maybe a few others. On that drive (after Ahman's 70yd TD) I got the vibe that the D relaxed too much...can't do that. Hawk may not be Urlacher, but he plays smart and very consistant for a rookie. He'll only get better.

OS PA
10-24-2006, 10:22 AM
The O line was inconsistent. They kept in extra blockers, which buys time but can also make it tougher for the receivers to get open and the QB to find them if the D only rushes 4.

Correct me if i'm mistaken, but in this scheme it seems that we put our tight-ends in the backfield as emergency blockers and wait to see how many players the defense brings. If the tight-end has nobody to block he runs out for a swing pass or a pass down the middle.

HarveyWallbangers
10-24-2006, 10:39 AM
Kampman seemed to pressure Joey more than KGB.

According to the article above, that wasn't the case.


Immobile Joey Harrington dropped back 66 times but the rush was just average from Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila (five pressures) and Aaron Kampman (3½ pressures).

Zool
10-24-2006, 10:41 AM
The O line was inconsistent. They kept in extra blockers, which buys time but can also make it tougher for the receivers to get open and the QB to find them if the D only rushes 4.

Correct me if i'm mistaken, but in this scheme it seems that we put our tight-ends in the backfield as emergency blockers and wait to see how many players the defense brings. If the tight-end has nobody to block he runs out for a swing pass or a pass down the middle.That seems to be the max protect option. Bring the TE in motion to see what the OLB's are going to do.

Noodle
10-24-2006, 11:25 AM
Also, Miami booted two clear picks.

What two picks? I'd hardly classify the TD pass to Martin as a clear pick. . . . He deserves at least a 3 rating.

McGinn agrees with me: "Well, two interceptions were dropped, but no one's really counting." If those balls had gone through the hands of Woodson or Harris, we would have been squealing like stuck pigs. Cripes, after the Rams game, that's all you heard: "we dropped three picks, we dropped three picks." Do folks ever notice how many "dropped picks" we've benefited from? Thought not.

But in the end, I agree with you that Favre earned a solid 3. Incredible toughness in brutal conditions. And his celebration of the Driver TD was worth the price of admission alone. I also thought he did a good job slowing his fastball down a little on short passes -- that huge 3rd down play to Francis would have been a disaster if he rocketed the ball in there. It would have popped up in the air and likely been picked (there were three guys in the area). Instead, Favre put good pace on the ball with pin-point accuracy. Great play.

Though I wish he'd stop throwing high over the middle. He nearly got Jennings killed.

fan4life
10-24-2006, 02:44 PM
Favre earned every bit of the 4-1/2 footballs McGinn gave him. His adjustment to Cliffy's absence and reads off of short drops were superb.

"Almost interceptions" don't count. Favre zinged a few balls into tight coverage, challenging defenders to beat him. They couldn't. There are few better than Favre when he's allowed to play his smash-mouth, aggressive style on his terms (ie, when's he not being forced into playing from behind and opponents must respect his play-action.) Does he take risks? You bet. But you better bring your best stuff if you want to beat Favre when he plays like he did Sunday. Not many have.

And that includes the Miami defenders.

The Leaper
10-24-2006, 06:17 PM
Favre had a 3 football day? Are you guys crazy?

Half of the game was spent passing to guys WHO NEVER CAUGHT A BALL IN THE LEAGUE prior to game time. After getting plastered twice in the first quarter, he probably had one eye on Jason Taylor the rest of the day...and still was efficient and accurate.

As McGinn pointed out...a lesser QB would've shriveled up and blown away. Favre earned every bit of 4.5 footballs. There isn't another QB in the league that would've done significantly better considering the conditions Favre was facing.

MJZiggy
10-24-2006, 06:30 PM
Good point Leaper.

Noodle
10-24-2006, 08:38 PM
Give me a friggin break. Favre got sacked twice, half as many times as Harrington. Then they went to a max protect scheme and he pretty much remained upright. I'm supposed to get all tingly inside because he was able to overcome the brutal beating of 2 stinkin sacks? I have more respect for Favre than that.

He had a good game, and I gave him proper dues. But he didn't have a great game. Jeepers Leaper, if A-Rod had done the same, you'd have said the kid got lucky with some throws.

Fosco33
10-24-2006, 08:44 PM
I was thinking the same thing...


great minds :wink: you know what they say

That makes three :wink:

I was thinking that was a poor game overall. A very weak opponent and we didn't capitalize and end the game soon enough. I didn't like some of the playcalling and thought it took far too long to help Colledge.

The back-up WRs were a pleasant surprise - not that high IMO. Favre played 'ok' - not that high either - lots of overthrown passes (or bad routes). Either way, 200 yards against that D in the air isn't impressive.

A 2.5 for the Secondary? 414 yards on 63 or so attempts - or 6.5 per attempt - jeez.

mraynrand
10-24-2006, 09:45 PM
Favre had a great day. The Pass to Martin was tipped - otherwise it was a much easier TD. The TD to Driver was a perfectly thrown ball over Driver's shoulder in extremely tight double coverage and off a good pass rush. At least one of Favre's dropped INTs was on a deep ball with 19 seconds left in the first half. They didn't get points off that drive and if intercepted Miami probably would have kneeled it. Favre's first down pass to Francies was off an audible out of a run (recall the nice third and one stuffed run earlier in the game). Favre doesn't get sacked because he knows what to do with the ball. Young inexperienced guys get sacked because they can't go through their progressions and either tuck and run or get clobbered. At times, Favre threw to guys who didn't even have their head in the game. Three rooks blocking up front against a decent NFL defensive line. COME ON!

HarveyWallbangers
10-24-2006, 10:42 PM
The back-up WRs were a pleasant surprise - not that high IMO. Favre played 'ok' - not that high either - lots of overthrown passes (or bad routes). Either way, 200 yards against that D in the air isn't impressive.

That team may suck, but that defense has remained solid. That defense came into the game ranked in the top 5 in the NFL in total defense and passing defense, and hadn't given up more than 20 points in the previous 5 weeks.

While I don't think Favre was exceptional, I think he was good considering the circumstances (issues on the OL, depleted receiving corps, unable to run, tough defense). Solid game on his part. Some of those overthrows I bet would have been judged as good plays. Actually, I think many fans wish Brett would do that more. I just read an interesting article by Chris Landry of Scouts, Inc. He said that a completed pass doesn't necessarily get a passing grade from scouts. He pointed to a pass that Philip Rivers threw this weekend. He threw a slant, but the throw was too far inside. The receiver had to adjust his route, and got tackled immediately. It was a 11 yard gain on 3rd-and-10, but he got a negative grade. If the throw had hit the WR in stride, it would have been a 60 yard TD. Two plays later, San Diego fumbled. He said other times a QB will throw in incompletion, and the QB will get a passing grade because he put the ball in a safe spot and didn't have any other options on the play. I suspect a few of those Favre overthrows down the middle to the TE in this last game wouldn't be classified as bad throws. There wasn't much of an opening on most of them.

HarveyWallbangers
10-24-2006, 10:52 PM
From Cliff Christl's Blog:


Good game for Franks

Offensive coordinator Jeff Jagodzinski had nothing but praise for Bubba Franks' play against Miami. Jagodzinski said Franks blocked about as well as a tight end could block and played a big part in blocking Jason Taylor in the run game.

Fosco33
10-25-2006, 02:49 PM
The back-up WRs were a pleasant surprise - not that high IMO. Favre played 'ok' - not that high either - lots of overthrown passes (or bad routes). Either way, 200 yards against that D in the air isn't impressive.

That team may suck, but that defense has remained solid. That defense came into the game ranked in the top 5 in the NFL in total defense and passing defense, and hadn't given up more than 20 points in the previous 5 weeks.

While I don't think Favre was exceptional, I think he was good considering the circumstances (issues on the OL, depleted receiving corps, unable to run, tough defense). Solid game on his part. Some of those overthrows I bet would have been judged as good plays. Actually, I think many fans wish Brett would do that more. I just read an interesting article by Chris Landry of Scouts, Inc. He said that a completed pass doesn't necessarily get a passing grade from scouts. He pointed to a pass that Philip Rivers threw this weekend. He threw a slant, but the throw was too far inside. The receiver had to adjust his route, and got tackled immediately. It was a 11 yard gain on 3rd-and-10, but he got a negative grade. If the throw had hit the WR in stride, it would have been a 60 yard TD. Two plays later, San Diego fumbled. He said other times a QB will throw in incompletion, and the QB will get a passing grade because he put the ball in a safe spot and didn't have any other options on the play. I suspect a few of those Favre overthrows down the middle to the TE in this last game wouldn't be classified as bad throws. There wasn't much of an opening on most of them.

Good points as usual Harv. I knew the Fins had a decent defense but some of our points were off turnovers.

I'm ok with Favre throwing it away - but throwing into double/triple coverage has lot the err of excitement for me. In addition, the catch by Jennings was risky - and could have seriously hurt a star in the making.

HarveyWallbangers
10-25-2006, 02:59 PM
In addition, the catch by Jennings was risky - and could have seriously hurt a star in the making.

I don't agree with the insinuation that Favre shouldn't have made that throw. It was 3rd and 15. Favre threw it into tight coverage because there was tight coverage, and they needed 15 yards. He saw a window to complete the ball, so he made the throw. They almost converted it to. I'm sure any WR worth his salt would be all for Brett making that pass in that situation.

mraynrand
10-25-2006, 03:04 PM
From Cliff Christl's Blog:


Good game for Franks

Offensive coordinator Jeff Jagodzinski had nothing but praise for Bubba Franks' play against Miami. Jagodzinski said Franks blocked about as well as a tight end could block and played a big part in blocking Jason Taylor in the run game.

I'm real happy that Franks is blocking well. With his staggering gait in pass patterns and Lee's washboard hands, maybe the best they can hpe for is to continue to exploit the "two headed" TE arrangement with Bubba doing most of the blocking and Martin doing most of the catching.