I like Simms' take

[packinpatland]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/9752209

I like Phil Simms take on the whole Bledsoe thing, about how once a player gets a 'label' it sticks with him, the INT in the endzone being shown again and again, but not Manning's INT etc..........
I guess coming from a QB about a QB, he makes valid points.

[mraynrand]

There's this funny thing that happens during NFL broadcasts - the camera always focuses on the QB. You don't get that live close up on the slot receiver or the safety - the camera doesn't follow those guys when the ball is snapped. The camera is on the QB and remains there until the ball is thrown. When a team loses, everyone remembers what the QB did. If the QB throws a critical pick, fumbles the ball, etc. not too many people care to dissect the causes. A lot of times, all they see is the highlight (lowlight if you lost) on Sportcenter juxtaposed with a great highlight of another QB scoring/throwing a TD. It's easy to ask "Why can't our guy do that?" With the camera focused on the QB, and virtually every offense relying on good QB play, it will never change - the QB will get too much credit in victories and too much blame in losses.

BTW, Favre cost the Packers the Rams game by fumbling on the last drive. But that's Brett Favre, he always makes the big mistake to ruin the game.

[MJZiggy]

I agree mraynrand, but the example I was thinking of was Ahman Green. When we first got him he had a fumbling problem. Tried a couple of things and got it fixed. How many years later were we still hearing about Green's fumbling when at the time, he was one of the better backs in that statistic?

Simms makes a good point.

[prsnfoto]

[
BTW, Favre cost the Packers the Rams game by fumbling on the last drive. But that's Brett Favre, he always makes the big mistake to ruin the game.

I hope this is sarcasm if not you are a sad packer fan.

[mraynrand]

I hope this is sarcasm if not you are a sad packer fan.


It was sarcasm and I am a sad Packer fan. :sad:

[MJZiggy]

May you be a happier fan in a couple of weeks.

[pack4to84]

my phone cant do the quote thing, so dealing with A.Green being lable a fumbler.


The great Walter Payton fumbled 89 times in 14 years. Yet he was never labled a fumbler. Everyone remembers him as SWEETnESS . Thats 6.357 fumbles per season.

[MJZiggy]

I wonder what the difference is...perhaps because Green had a bunch in a row and Payton had them more spread out? I'm just guessing.

[Dune]

I see that the announcers and sports writers have players they like. You watch 1 game and the ball is thrown behind a receiver and they blame the receiver (Vick throws the ball) and you watch the same play happen for the other team or on another game later and they say it was a bad pass. ????

I am not sure where this comes from but it affects the fans view of players also as they feel the announcers are experts. Some players are hyped up and some are ignored.

Vick did get sacked 7 times and had a bad game and you never once heard them say the should bring in Schaub who may be a better passer than Vick.

[Fritz]

You know what's weird? Two years ago, I said something in a post about liking Bart Starr better than Favre because Starr didn't throw nearly as many intercepts. But then Patler called me on it and said that Starr threw just as many ratio-wise as Favre. That seemed unbelieveable, so I did the research - naturally, Patler was right. At least it was so two years ago.

[esoxx]

You know what's weird? Two years ago, I said something in a post about liking Bart Starr better than Favre because Starr didn't throw nearly as many intercepts. But then Patler called me on it and said that Starr threw just as many ratio-wise as Favre. That seemed unbelieveable, so I did the research - naturally, Patler was right. At least it was so two years ago.

Actually, Starr's interception to TD ratio is much worse than Favre's, even with last season's debacle.

Starr threw 152 TD's compared to 138 INT. That's close to a 1 to 1 ratio (.91).

To date, Favre has thrown 405 TD's compared to 260 INT. (.64)

Did you know the great HOF QB Joe Namath threw MORE picks than TD's? No one really mentions that. He threw 173 TD's to 220 INT! (1.27)

How about that great HOF QB Terry Bradshaw? 212 TD's - 210 INT (.99)

One of this years new HOF inductee's, Troy Aikman, is known for his field generalship and pinpoint accuracy to the talented likes of Irvin, Novacek, Harper... He threw 165 TD's to 141 INT. (.85)

Yes indeed, labels can be misleading.

[Fritz]

Crazy, ain't it? I think that's why a guy who's a perfectly acceptable player can be seen as a bust in the city that drafted him in the first round, but go on to another city and be seen as, well, a perfectly acceptable player. I'm thinking of Terrell Buckley here, but there are dozens of examples as well.

It works both ways, too. You draft Donald Driver in the seventh round, and some people think he's not a #1 big-time receiver, possibly because there's some lingering sense that, after all, the guy was only a seventh round pick. So I think the perceptions are powerful.

[mraynrand]

The thing about Favre and the INTs is that the Packers have made the playoffs 6 times since winning the Superbowl, and if you don't win it all, your last game is a loss in the playoffs. in several games, SB32, the Divisional rounds against St. Louis and Philly, and the WC game against Minnesota, Favre has either thrown multiple INTs or fumbles (2 in SB32, 6 in St.. Louis, and 4 against MN). even if several INts or fumbles were not his fault, the last one in Philly and against Minnesota were game/drive killers. You can argue that many of the INTs (especially in the St. Louis game) came after the game was decided, or were the results of Favre pressing because his defenseive support sucked or guys were out with injuries, but the final INT in Philly and the several others in the St. Louis and against Minnesota did not appear to be anyone's fault but Favre's and that sticks in people's heads because they have the entire offseason to think about it. And then when Favre is unapologetic (which is fine by me) he gets the reputation for throwing killer picks, regardless of the relative blame he deserves.

Green's fumbles seemed to come in batches and always seemed so costly (The regular season games against Philly and K.C. come to mind). Add to that his crazy armbands and the focus of MNF, etc.and you get a reputation, even though it's not really deserved (they always trot out thee 'That's why Mike Holmgren traded him away' line).

[Willard]

Did you know the great HOF QB Joe Namath threw MORE picks than TD's? No one really mentions that. He threw 173 TD's to 220 INT! (1.27)

Broadway Joe made it to Canton because of his personality and because of one historic game. His stats don't warrant his enshrinement IMHO. On the other hand, his performance with Suzy Kolber on the sidelines a couple of years ago should be worth election into the Hall of Fame despite his pedestrian passing numbers! Go Joe, Go!!

[Fritz]

Well, if you're old enough like me, you remember that Broadway Joe also was a barrier-breaking guy, like Jackie Robinson breaking the color barrier. Except that the barrier Joe broke was the gender-bending kind, when he wore pantyhose for a televsion commercial years ago. Now that's a guy who's comfy with his sexuality.