A Few Random Observations

[The Shadow]

1. Really like McCarthy's playcalling : unpredictable, consistently well-conceived. It's obvious, too, that meaningful adjustments are made on the fly & at halftime. The disastrous fake fieldgoal play was an exception - but it's always nice to give the opposition plenty to think about.
Quite a change from Team Sherman!
2. It's refreshing not to watch the team always sit on a lead & play into an opponent's hand.
3. David Martin seems to be taking over more & more as our best tight end.
Athleticism over Franks' bulk.
Donald Lee is being given chances also, but is not making the most of them.
4. Ahman looks very good.
5. Morency is a fine, heady fill-in.
6. McCarthy's influence on Favre is great - I strongly suspect Brett wants to THROW for the score rather than run it in (his td run was the classic example), but his decision-making has been better lately than I can ever remember.
7. Hawk was most certainly the correct choice for this team.
8. Barnett had a great game, but the silly antics should go.
9. Woodson was expensive, but the secondary has def. been upgraded.
10. Manuel is not much more than ok, and should be replaced by next season.
11. Collins might be a good replacement; I worry about his lapses as a free safety. He might thrive at SS - if a more instinctive guy could be found for FS. Underwood?
12. Kampmann is a winner; he would shine even more if his surrounding cast improves.
13. Driver has been our most valuable player this year.
14. Driver, Jennings, and Robinson would be a fairly formidable trio of receivers in 07.
15. Thompson's decisions look better & better. I think he is rebuilding this team into a soon-to-be contender.

[Joemailman]

I agree with every thing you said. One thing I would add is the importance of finding a backup other than Colledge for Chad Clifton. Colledge is going to be a great player at guard, and you don't want to have to switch him to tackle as MM did last week if Clifton can't play.

[The Shadow]

Agreed.
The infusion of talent & youth into the offensive line is certainly a great thing, eh?

[Fosco33]

Morency has shown he could be a 1st down back. He's more than a change of pace - especially with almost a 10 yard average and a 100+ yd game.

I think that's the ZBS scheme, a little experience, and a OLine coming together.

[run pMc]

Generally agree.

This might have been the best game I've ever seen Barnett play...he was everywhere. Hawk was just OK today, but I think he'll improve.

The OL did pretty well against a decent D (minus K. Dansby)...but I'd like to see the penalties cleaned up. False starts at home are silly.

[The Leaper]

Morency for Gado was a tremendous trade for Green Bay.

Gado had never shown an ability to play in a ZBS...Morency to me is a clone of a young Ahman Green. A little smaller, but has great vision and seems to finish off runs well. He's also got the fumble issues. Let's hope we don't trade him away like Seattle did to Ahman.

We should beat Buffalo. At 4-4, we still have a slim chance of making a playoff run.

Thompson haters...shut the hell up...for good. He's put together an impressive young OL. He's got some young talents on both sides of the ball. He's put a capable coach in charge of the offense. This team is closer than most people realize.

[The Shadow]

"......This team is closer than most people realize."

Agreed!

[MJZiggy]

I think more and more are starting to realize it.

[The Leaper]

How is this for an observation.

After 7 games...the Green Bay Packers now have a better record than the defending Super Bowl champs.

[justanotherpackfan]

How is this for an observation.

After 7 games...the Green Bay Packers now have a better record than the defending Super Bowl champs.
How the heck do the Steelers lose to the freaking Raiders?

[Brainerd]

How is this for an observation.

After 7 games...the Green Bay Packers now have a better record than the defending Super Bowl champs.
How the heck do the Steelers lose to the freaking Raiders?
Four interceptions may have had something to do with the loss. The Raiders beat the mighty Cardinals last week. It must have pumped them up.

[vince]

How is this for an observation.

After 7 games...the Green Bay Packers now have a better record than the defending Super Bowl champs.
Granted they have beaten 3 bad teams, but we know a lot more about this team. First and foremost, we know that the Packers are NOT one of those bad teams.

The strides this team has made is exciting to see, and this team is very competitive. I know that if if's and but's were candy and nuts, it'd be Christmas every day, but this team OUTPLAYED the Rams, OUTPLAYED the Eagles for 30 minutes, should have beaten the Saints.

NO DOUBT about Morency. That kid's got some skills. As long as he holds onto the ball, he's got it goin' on!

Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy have GOT to be liking what they're seeing.

That was a dominating performance all around today. Sure they should have won. Well, they did - CONVINCINGLY.

[MJZiggy]

Perhaps Roethlisburger should have sat out this week....

[mraynrand]

1. Really like McCarthy's playcalling : unpredictable, consistently well-conceived. It's obvious, too, that meaningful adjustments are made on the fly & at halftime.

I'd like to take your word for this, but let me play devil's advocate and be a sourpuss asking you for examples of meaningful half-time adjustments. Next, could you explain how the Packers playcalling was unpredictable when the Cardinals had 5 D-linemen to stop the run, and the Packers ran the ball anyway. How was that unpredictable? Or perhaps you're referring to the unpredictable FG fake. If I seem obnoxious, please go easy on me, I've just finished my twelvth cup o coffee and am a bit wound up!

[Joemailman]

Perhaps Roethlisburger should have sat out this week....


Big Ben now has 6 TD passes and 11 INT's. I wonder when the idiots at ESPN will start saying he should retire.

[Rastak]

Perhaps Roethlisburger should have sat out this week....


Big Ben now has 6 TD passes and 11 INT's. I wonder when the idiots at ESPN will start saying he should retire.


I would guess when he gets really old like Brett.

:wink:

[Lurker64]

could you explain how the Packers playcalling was unpredictable

This week, and the last, he's put together a few drives with really good mix of run and pass, causing the defense to guess, and guess wrong a lot of the time (like the drive that sealed it last week, and the third and fourth scoring drives this week (if I recall correctly)). I assume that's what we mean when we call his playcalling unpredictable.

McCarthy at least seems to have a better intuition about how to "mix it up" than Sherman did, though this might be an illusion at this point.

[MJZiggy]

Ok, now THAT was uncalled for. :razz:

[The Shadow]

".....This week, and the last, he's put together a few drives with really good mix of run and pass, causing the defense to guess, and guess wrong a lot of the time (like the drive that sealed it last week, and the third and fourth scoring drives this week (if I recall correctly)). I assume that's what we mean when we call his playcalling unpredictable.

McCarthy at least seems to have a better intuition about how to "mix it up" than Sherman did, though this might be an illusion at this point."


You stated it much better than I could have!

[vince]

could you explain how the Packers playcalling was unpredictable

This week, and the last, he's put together a few drives with really good mix of run and pass, causing the defense to guess, and guess wrong a lot of the time (like the drive that sealed it last week, and the third and fourth scoring drives this week (if I recall correctly)). I assume that's what we mean when we call his playcalling unpredictable.

McCarthy at least seems to have a better intuition about how to "mix it up" than Sherman did, though this might be an illusion at this point.
It's not an illusion Lurk. Believe what you see. It's only going to get better as the team continues to be able to pose a serious running threat.

[The Leaper]

The young OL dominated today. The confidence and growth in that unit is great to see...and I'm very happy we made the switch to the ZBS. Unlike the power run game, it is more likely to get stopped for little gain...but it is also much more likely to snap off an 8-12 yard gain. Combined with the west coast offense short passing attack, it can really provide a staggering series of plays that puts a defense on its heels...the 8-10 play drives that go 70-80 yards and eat up a good portion of clock. We've seen that happen 2 weeks in a row now.

[potsdam_11]

I would agree with most of your points Shadow, in particular about the Barnett antics...

This is the fourth game I have had the opportunity to watch, and so far the Packers are 2 & 2 in those games. ( Bears, Philly, Miami, and today..) Most of my "impressions" of how this team plays week to week has come from reading the comments on this forum.. The good news "for me" is that every time I have watched, I see a better team. The bad news is, I cannot rely on the many of the observations made on this forum... Apparently, there are far too many posters that are clueless when it comes to the state of this team, the talents of MM and TT, as well as, the resilience of Favre. A Lambeau leap by the ole man...?? Too funny...( I suspect that the fans he jumped up to won't be taking a shower for the rest of the season...)

In any given year, there are only a couple teams that seem to have it all.. The team that I have witnessed the last couple weeks, won't qualify as one of those teams for a couple more years. However, in contrast to the perennial door mats of the NFL, this team is headed in an appropriate direction, and appears to have more than a few "good" players. The Packers were in serious need of a make-over... So far, it's looking like we have a pretty bright future, and I for one, will not have to endure another 20 year drought... which is good, because I'm getting too old for that crap.

[vince]

I cannot rely on the many of the observations made on this forum... Apparently, there are far too many posters that are clueless when it comes to the state of this team, the talents of MM and TT, as well as, the resilience of Favre.
Interesting comment, potsdam. Your elusive post gives little evidence of your thoughts about these issues... Care to elaborate?

[VegasPackFan]

I like the fact that it appears we will have an effective run game.

It's twice as good though, that its being done without that god forsaken U-71 package.

[oregonpackfan]

"Barnett had a great game,"

Where is Wist on this comment? I thought we would be hearing from him that "Barnett is the worst linebacker in the history of the Packers and should be cut first thing Monday morning..." type of tirade!

OPF

[potsdam_11]

. [/quote]
Interesting comment, potsdam. Your elusive post gives little evidence of your thoughts about these issues... Care to elaborate?[/quote]

Absoulutely Vince... a bit later tonight, as I am pressed for time at the moment.. don't go away.. :smile:

[the_idle_threat]

Another excellent post by the Shadow, and I agree with most of it.

#8 is particularly good:


8. Barnett had a great game, but the silly antics should go.

Every time Barnett makes a play, he follows it up with his inane jackassery. Maybe he thinks everyone sees a Samurai, but to me he looks like one of those gymnasts who is dancing around waving a big ribbon. :roll:

[billy_oliver880]

Another excellent post by the Shadow, and I agree with most of it.

#8 is particularly good:


8. Barnett had a great game, but the silly antics should go.

Every time Barnett makes a play, he follows it up with his inane jackassery. Maybe he thinks everyone sees a Samurai, but to me he looks like one of those gymnasts who is dancing around waving a big ribbon. :roll:

I think that is what pisses me off about him the most. You made a tackle 5 yards down field...why are you celebrating??

[Badgerinmaine]

How is this for an observation.

After 7 games...the Green Bay Packers now have a better record than the defending Super Bowl champs.
How the heck do the Steelers lose to the freaking Raiders?

The killer for them was Roethlisberger throwing a Pick 6 inside the Raider 10 in the 4th quarter which could have tied the game--I think it was a 95 yard TD return.

[OS PA]

I just can't get past the point that if we hadn't gone through mental lapses and bad luck in two of the games, the Packers would be flying high at 5-2. The Rams game was in the bag, as was the first 2 quarters of the Saints. I guess all can't be won though, and I am ecstatic that we are 1 win away from tieing our record from last year.

[mraynrand]

I like the fact that it appears we will have an effective run game.

It's twice as good though, that its being done without that god forsaken U-71 package.

I hope you're kidding. This formation led to the best rushing attack in Packer history, and protected Favre with his broken thumb. The Packers were in rough shape at the bye in 2003, and the creation of this formation propelled them into the playoffs. Sure, teams started figuring it out in 2004, but at least give credit for something that was hugely successful for almost an entire season.

[Scott Campbell]

I like the fact that it appears we will have an effective run game.

It's twice as good though, that its being done without that god forsaken U-71 package.

I hope you're kidding. This formation led to the best rushing attack in Packer history, and protected Favre with his broken thumb. The Packers were in rough shape at the bye in 2003, and the creation of this formation propelled them into the playoffs. Sure, teams started figuring it out in 2004, but at least give credit for something that was hugely successful for almost an entire season.


I'll give them credit for innovating with U-71. Too bad it took them 2 years to adjust once other teams figured it out.

[Zool]

could you explain how the Packers playcalling was unpredictable

This week, and the last, he's put together a few drives with really good mix of run and pass, causing the defense to guess, and guess wrong a lot of the time (like the drive that sealed it last week, and the third and fourth scoring drives this week (if I recall correctly)). I assume that's what we mean when we call his playcalling unpredictable.

McCarthy at least seems to have a better intuition about how to "mix it up" than Sherman did, though this might be an illusion at this point.
It's not an illusion Lurk. Believe what you see. It's only going to get better as the team continues to be able to pose a serious running threat.

Agreed. I could pretty much call the play and direction of the play from Sherman's offensive set before the snap. If I can do it, you know people in the NFL can do it and a whole lot faster. I was trying yesterday. I remember a second and 2 in the 2nd quarter that I said "pass" out loud before the snap. Was a 3 wide, 1 TE, 1 back set. I believe Ahman was offset even. Looked like one of their max protect pass plays with Bubba and Ahman blocking. Turned out to be a 5 yard run. Thats just the first example that came to mind.

Barnett played by far the best game I have seen him play. If he can come anywhere near that for the rest of the year, I will have to stop talking shit about him. Hawk played average/poor yesterday. Looked lost on a few zone plays. Played the run OK. Disappointing after last weeks play, but I guess he's still a rook.

[Guiness]

I like the fact that it appears we will have an effective run game.

It's twice as good though, that its being done without that god forsaken U-71 package.

I hope you're kidding. This formation led to the best rushing attack in Packer history, and protected Favre with his broken thumb. The Packers were in rough shape at the bye in 2003, and the creation of this formation propelled them into the playoffs. Sure, teams started figuring it out in 2004, but at least give credit for something that was hugely successful for almost an entire season.


I'll give them credit for innovating with U-71. Too bad it took them 2 years to adjust once other teams figured it out.

Both quite right. The U-71 was a solid, and produced. I know most around here seem to detest it, but the end of its usefulness, and Ahman's slump coincided. I'm not convinced of which was the cause, and which was the effect.

Whichever was the reason (ineffective with lower quality backs, or opposition seeing it coming) it took them a bloody long time to abandon it.

[Guiness]

could you explain how the Packers playcalling was unpredictable

This week, and the last, he's put together a few drives with really good mix of run and pass, causing the defense to guess, and guess wrong a lot of the time (like the drive that sealed it last week, and the third and fourth scoring drives this week (if I recall correctly)). I assume that's what we mean when we call his playcalling unpredictable.

McCarthy at least seems to have a better intuition about how to "mix it up" than Sherman did, though this might be an illusion at this point.


I don't know how much credit I'd give McCarthy for that. My 5 year old has a better idea of how to mix it up than Sherman, and he'll tell you the same banana, banana, orange! knock knock joke 5 times in a row!

I don't know that we've seen half time adjustments yet. Certainly wouldn't brag about what happened at the half in the Philly game :cry:

[vince]

I don't know that we've seen half time adjustments yet. Certainly wouldn't brag about what happened at the half in the Philly game :cry:Ahmad Carroll happened in the Philly game. :shtf: Thankfully, he won't happen again.

[swede]

Another excellent post by the Shadow, and I agree with most of it.

#8 is particularly good:


8. Barnett had a great game, but the silly antics should go.

Every time Barnett makes a play, he follows it up with his inane jackassery. Maybe he thinks everyone sees a Samurai, but to me he looks like one of those gymnasts who is dancing around waving a big ribbon. :roll:

When Barnett does that I always think of a cook at George Webbs smacking a cockroach with his spatula.

He must not have friends. A friend would say, "Dude you're tearin' it up an' aything but the Samurai thing ain't doin' it for nobody."

[swede]

As far as play-calling goes, in the first half I liked the tendency to throw on first downs. Because the execution was good, this gave the team a lot of 2nd and shorts. I commented on it a number of times. Good execution is probably more important than play-calling anyway.

I'm getting a little more used to watching the o line run the ZBS. Those cutback lanes can be huge on some plays! The running back is suddenly at the next level with a head of steam. It made Ahman look young again, and it made Maurency look like as big a steal as Ahman was back in the day.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Love Barnett's antics... most of the time... in the right situation. This team has needed a little fire on the defensive side of the ball.

[Partial]

Love Barnett's antics... most of the time... in the right situation. This team has needed a little fire on the defensive side of the ball.

Then he should throw a fist in the air, not be a dancing samurai.

[KYPack]

Perhaps Roethlisburger should have sat out this week....

You got that right.

Since the cycle wreck, Roethlisburger has had his appendix taken out and sustained a concussion.

Start Batch next week and give this kid a blow. Those concussions can end his run early. The Burgh is going nowhere, give Roethlisburger a rest.

[Badgepack]

Getting the young players the feel of winning is important, especially at home.

Favre having fun and playing in control is important.

A running game within a true West Coast offense helps alot also.

Even with all of this years injuries, things are looking so much better than last year.

[The Shadow]

The team is clearly on the right road , and we have to credit the oft-maligned Ted Thompson for making the correct, often tough, decisions.

[VegasPackFan]

In regards to the U71 pkg, OK, I agree that at the time it was first implemented, it was highly effective. It certainly made our offense very powerful at that time.

But that formation became a joke therafter. They stubbornly stuck with it after every darn team we played proved that they knew EXACTLY what to do with it. I grew to dread the very site of the formation.

So with that, I give it an overall score of ZERO. It didnt get us to the Super Bowl, it didnt get us into an NFC Chamionship game, and it was used for far too long.

[Joemailman]

I thought Gilbert Brown digging the grave was pretty cool. Maybe Barnett should try that.

[swede]

I thought Gilbert Brown digging the grave was pretty cool. Maybe Barnett should try that.

That was a good celebration because he used it solely on no gains or TFL's and also because it was crystal clear that he had just buried a guy and was now shoveling some green and gold dirt over the grave.

If Barnett would slash one time w/o the sheathing unsheathing business, and if he saved it for the times when he makes serious game-changing plays it would look better. Theatrics require brevity, clarity, and context in order to work.

[HarveyWallbangers]

All I know is that from the stands it seemed like Barnett only did it on good plays this week, and the crowd sure gets fired up when he does it. As much as people complain about it, it kept the crowd going several times.

[mraynrand]

I like the fact that it appears we will have an effective run game.

It's twice as good though, that its being done without that god forsaken U-71 package.

I hope you're kidding. This formation led to the best rushing attack in Packer history, and protected Favre with his broken thumb. The Packers were in rough shape at the bye in 2003, and the creation of this formation propelled them into the playoffs. Sure, teams started figuring it out in 2004, but at least give credit for something that was hugely successful for almost an entire season.


I'll give them credit for innovating with U-71. Too bad it took them 2 years to adjust once other teams figured it out.

This is pretty stupid. They put it in place after the bye week in 2003, used it through 2004 (although much less later in the year), and used it sparingly in 2005. The other teams adjusted and the Packers started running a number of other plays off of the formation. Effectively it was finished with the departure of Wahle and Rivera, because Klemm and Whitless could not run it. So it was used effectively for about a year. Sherman adjusted. That's just simple fact. It's OK to irrationally hate Sherman and color reality to suit that hatred (not neccessarily you SC, but Sherman Haters in general), but I prefer to look at the facts. The facts are that the run game in 2005 was destroyed by lack of adequate guards and running backs and no play making WR. Sherman adjusted to having Favre throw a lot more and a lot more to crappy WRs like Chatman and ineffective TEs like Donald 'concrete hands' Lee. Look at Favre's pass attempts - they were way up. Simply based on offensive production, Sherman was an effective playcaller. It's hard to deny the facts of the best running game the Packers have ever had in 2003 (with Favre nursing a broken thumb) and a statistical year ever for Favre in 2004 on par with his MVP year in 1997.

[The Shadow]

Yup, the real problem with the U-71 was that it seemed to remain stagnant -as opposing def. coordinators began to figure it out & adapt to it.
At that point, a true innovator-coach would have either done a major TWEAK or moved on to something else.

[esoxx]

Greenday's man-crush for Sherman is quite obvious given his numerous impassioned defenses for the guy. Broken record.

[potsdam_11]

Interesting comment, potsdam. Your elusive post gives little evidence of your thoughts about these issues... Care to elaborate?[/quote]


Vince,

First of all, perhaps calling some of the posters on this forum clueless was a bit harsh and I might have chosen a better adjective if I had put more thought into it… Then again, perhaps I wouldn’t have. Essentially, what I was eluding too is the seemingly endless number of posters that line up and just take pot shots at what they perceive to be the failings of the Packer’s coaching and management staff. Far too many posters, it seems, are railing on TT for an apparent lack of insight regarding how to run a football team, specifically, this Packer team. Additionally, I read an equal number of comments directed at MM and his lack of coaching prowess.
When I watch this “mis-managed, and ill-coached” Packer squad, (which is a rare event this year) I see a team, with significantly more upside than the squad I watched last year. Moreover, I see a team that each week, improves, and I see a team with a rookie class that could be more than adequate in the future. TT has managed to bring in a collection of not so well known talent, and put some very serviceable players out on the field, without bankrupting the team’s future. Is that too hard to see ?

I have tried to accept the opinions of most on this forum as fairly well reasoned, because I sensed a pretty-good football IQ; yet after eight games I find much of the criticism unwarranted, and less than reasonable. Thus my comment.

Perhaps I see the team from a less critical light, because I was able to see Lombardi’s teams play, and suffer through the many-many dismal years following. This Packer team is hardly in the ranks of the worst, conversely, they won’t rank amongst the best either. However, they certainly seem to have some promise, and that is a big step in the right direction.

[GrnBay007]

Pots, with all due respect, I think many of the posters on this forum are either on the TT and MM bandwagon OR they are saying it's too soon to tell but are not majorly negative.

[MJZiggy]

I'm glad you clarified, Potdam, 'cause I read your first comment entirely wrong. I agree with you in that I think TT knows where he wants to go and who he wants to take along, and M3 seems to have a pretty good idea of how he wants to get them there.

[Zool]

Pots, with all due respect, I think many of the posters on this forum are either on the TT and MM bandwagon OR they are saying it's too soon to tell but are not majorly negative.I get what Pots is saying though. I think most of us are guilty of getting too high or too low at times about this team. That probably causes us to overstate our opinion from time to time.

It sure is fun though.

[mmmdk]

I don't think I'm overly optimistic on the Packers but it's been growing steadily the whole season. Did anyone notice how positive I was post-Rams game?; all I did was travel all the way to Green Bay from Denmark and then they lose!? I went home with a positive outlook. Check my posts from that period and onwards. What I liked was that the Packers run game came alive (vs Rams) with Herron at halfback - I guess this ZBS does work!? I saw a Packer team that was together and playing as a team though lacking talent at various positions (safeties, RB, backup tackle, depth at DE, receivers incl. TE).

Things that look good going into week 9:

Those 3 rookie guards look great (Spitz, Mool & Colledge). No busts here.
Greg Jennings is a starter but we need a great 3rd WR.
AJ Hawk has the tools to become better and eventually great?
Brandon Miree will be a Packer for years.
Rookie TE David Martin...wait...he's been here 5 years? :lol:
I'm worried that Morency is hurt badly; that's good 'cos I think he can play.
New punter & new kicker; they look very promising.
Woodson has played well as of lately; keep it up.
Favre has only 5 ints. in 7 games.
Dendy is actually better than Carroll :shock: Not so shocking I guess.
CB Will Blackmon hasn't played much; I saw a colledge game where he played WR - I'm high on him.

We need to add to it. Let's roll.

[potsdam_11]

Pots, with all due respect, I think many of the posters on this forum are either on the TT and MM bandwagon OR they are saying it's too soon to tell but are not majorly negative.

007 with equal respect to your comments.. I'm not able to peruse this board as thoroughly as I might like, and therefore tend to pick and choose from an admittedly narrow field of topics. Thus, my remarks are born from perhaps a more limited view of this board than you, or many others might have; that is not an apology, but rather, a point of consideration.

I will take your word on the prevailing attitude of the posters, and as time allows, read more of the threads, I normally skip. :smile: