If Quinn falls

[Tony Oday]

Do we take him and have Rogers and Quinn fight it out? Sounds like he may face a Rogeresque (stole this from another thread) slide.

Any thoughts? I think it would be a GREAT marketing thing for the Pack with Brother in laws on the same team :)

[Cheesehead Craig]

I really don't care for Quinn. If he falls to us, I'd rather have us draft someone else.

[Partial]

If he falls to us I'd trade down. I'd try and trade him to the Bears or maybe even Jacksonville for like an extra 4th or 5th.

[Patler]

I would run to the podium with the slip selecting Quinn for Green Bay.

You can never predict greatness for any college QB with any certainty, but Quinn has as good a chance to be great as any recent college QB. He is built more like a linebacker than a QB (I've seen him in person) and is a tireless worker, both in the gym and in the playbook. He will prepare physically and mentally to the best of his ability, and you can't ask for more than that. CW marveled at how well Quinn picked up his offense.

I wouldn't hesitate for one second to set up a competition between Rodgers and Quinn when Favre retires.

[Cheesehead Craig]

I would run to the podium with the slip selecting Quinn for Green Bay.

You can never predict greatness for any college QB with any certainty, but Quinn has as good a chance to be great as any recent college QB. He is built more like a linebacker than a QB (I've seen him in person) and is a tireless worker, both in the gym and in the playbook. He will prepare physically and mentally to the best of his ability, and you can't ask for more than that. CW marveled at how well Quinn picked up his offense.

I wouldn't hesitate for one second to set up a competition between Rodgers and Quinn when Favre retires.
If you cannot predict greatness for a college QB, why pass on a different position player (in the first round nontheless) that will make a much better immediate impact than a guy who may not amount to anything and you won't know for 2 years? Granted, you may be speaking as if Brett is retired in your scenario.

[Merlin]

I wouldn't pass on Quinn. He has been running an NFL style offense with college level players. He has a good arm and can read defenses. He seems to have the leadership qualities as well. That doesn't mean he will be a great NFL QB, but he has the skills. How can you take Rogers and not take Quinn? I still like that kid in Kentucky, Andre' Woodson. He posted a 154.5 rating and the three games I saw him play, he was unfrigginreal!

[Patler]

If you cannot predict greatness for a college QB, why pass on a different position player (in the first round nontheless) that will make a much better immediate impact than a guy who may not amount to anything and you won't know for 2 years? Granted, you may be speaking as if Brett is retired in your scenario.

Well, ANYONE you pick in the first round runs the same risk, regardless of position. There have been shocking failures of "can't miss" prospects at just about every position, so the risk is no greater for a QB than for anyone else.

BUT, there is no position more important to the long term success of a team than the QB. Without a good one you might have a year or two when everything falls into place for a run at the playoffs, but if you find a Favre, Brady, Manning, Montana, Elway, etc. etc you have a chance even when the rest of the team is mediocre. You have to have the QB for long-term success.

The Packers have to plan for the post-Favre time, because with the short time he may have yet to play, all they will do is work on building the base. Favre may be their best option right now, but he can no longer carry the team as he did even a few years ago.

[KYPack]

I wouldn't pass on Quinn. He has been running an NFL style offense with college level players. He has a good arm and can read defenses. He seems to have the leadership qualities as well. That doesn't mean he will be a great NFL QB, but he has the skills. How can you take Rogers and not take Quinn? I still like that kid in Kentucky, Andre' Woodson. He posted a 154.5 rating and the three games I saw him play, he was unfrigginreal!

Andre' Woodson? He's a junior. I doubt he will go early. A great kid who's learned to use everything to make his club move the ball. A great college QB who might never play a down in the NFL.

[PackerPro42]

I would definitely not select Quinn. He really isn't as great as people make him up to be and we can't spend two first rounders on QB's in three years. Whether he's there or not, we just can't invest any more money in that position. If he is there, I wouldn't mind seeing the Packers trade down and pick up a few extra picks and still get someone they really want. I wouldn't be surprised if that happened.

Plus, we still have Rodgers, who still hasn't gotten a chance to prove himself. I think he'll be a very solid player when he gets the chance.

[Cheesehead Craig]

I understand your point about QB and their importance.

I guess part of the reason I'm against Quinn is that why have 2 1st round picks as backups? Granted I know that many are not sold on Rodgers at all, but I just don't want to give up on the guy without him having a legit shot to prove himself. I don't consider the 2 blowouts over 2 years he was put in as a fair glimpse at what he can be.

What then happens if we take Quinn and Favre stays for a few more years. In 2 years when some very good QB falls to where we are, do we then take that QB in the first round in that draft as Quinn barely plays in those 2 years?

I just think there would be a better use of our pick or use him as leverage to obtain more picks by trading down.

[Patler]

I'm not giving up on Rodgers at all, because he has not had a chance. But I don't mind "stockpiling" young QBs in the slightest. Keep the one you like and trade the other one when the time comes to chose between them.

Salary isn't an issue at all. The Packers cap is in good enough shape that it won't be a concern for a few years, and by that time Favre will have retired and if both QBs are able, one will be traded. If Quinn falls in the first, his contract will look similar to Rodgers', it will be big only if he becomes the starter.

[Lurker64]

Ingle Martin is going to be a superstar, why would we take Quinn?

[Patler]

Ingle Martin is going to be a superstar, why would we take Quinn?

Because we lost Craig Nall!

[Freak Out]

Tough call...I guess it depends on who else is still on the board. He could end up being a hell of a QB even though the Golden Boys got bombed in another bowl game this year. TT could probably get one hell of a trade for that pick but who knows? Who picks behind us that needs a QB? The Bears? ha ha...

[BallHawk]

To understand how good Quinn is you have to understand how bad Notre Dame was.

[Charles Woodson]

To understand how good Quinn is you have to understand how bad Notre Dame was.

Well we hope everyone understands how f***ing bad ND was... For shits sake they were murdered in the sugar bowl, ND's defense made Jamarcus Russlle look like donovan Mcnabb...

[J-Rok]

Screw Nall. We've got Todd Bouman.

[ND72]

#1, Quinn will NOT fall.

#2, A lot of people don't understand how good Brady Quinn actually is. I'm a HUGE Notre Dame fan, and I"ll be the first one to tell you, they were BAD, this year. And the only reason they won, or were even in any games this year, was because of Brady Quinn. He was as important to Notre Dame, as Peyton Manning is to Indy. Without Manning, Indy is an 8-8 team...without Quinn, they were a 3-9 team. Notre Dame is over rated, Brady Quinn is under-rated.

[Deputy Nutz]

granted he did make that funny looking white wide receiver into an All-American, but he just doesn't have that awarness in the pocket that all the good ones have, ala Brett Favre, Tom Brady, Steve Young, Joe Montana, John Elway. He is a a good athlete but to me he is missing that natural instinct to create on his own, and like it or not that is an important trait to have for an NFL caliber QB.

[ND72]

Coming out of college, Tom Brady was listed as a guy with all the "tools"...he just didn't have the instincts or arm strength to make it...

Quinn's instincts are what make him so good. He can feel where the pressure is coming from, he knows where to move, and where to place a ball. He's a student of the game, like Manning. PLUS, he's had 2 years of NFL "experience" with Charlie Weis. He'll be by far better than JaMarcus Russell....I put my word on that, and you can save it and show it to me if i'm wrong, but I won't be...Brady Quinn will be a Franchise.

[Deputy Nutz]

Coming out of college, Tom Brady was listed as a guy with all the "tools"...he just didn't have the instincts or arm strength to make it...

Quinn's instincts are what make him so good. He can feel where the pressure is coming from, he knows where to move, and where to place a ball. He's a student of the game, like Manning. PLUS, he's had 2 years of NFL "experience" with Charlie Weis. He'll be by far better than JaMarcus Russell....I put my word on that, and you can save it and show it to me if i'm wrong, but I won't be...Brady Quinn will be a Franchise.

Thats why Tom was a 6th round pick, his instincts were a bit hidden. In my opinion Quinn takes too many sacks, and gets hit a little too often. I am sorry, he just doesn't have the "it" factor for me, but I would be willing to chance the 16th pick in the draft on it though.

[Patler]

I have seen virtually every game Brady Quinn has played at ND, either in person or on television. Many of his sacks have come with a lineman getting absolutely overrun. The pass protection he has received has been amazingly inconsistent. Great at times, but then horrid for several series in the same game. It has been inexplicable to me. Part of having "feel" in the pocket is knowing what to expect from your line in given situations. The ND O-line has been anything but predictable from one series to the next.

Quinn is one tough kid, and he has a stronger arm than many realize. I think his improved accuracy under Weiss has come in part because he has not tried to throw everything as hard as he can. As a feshman, he just gunned it on every throw, and showed a very strong arm. Quinn still experiences streaks of wildness, just like all hard throwers do when they are young. Young pitchers do to. Quinn should get over that as he matures.

69 TDs and 14 interceptions the last two years in almost 900 attempts, for 7000 yards and 63% completions while throwing downfield, outs and not just dinky and dunking can't be overlooked. He is a fierce competitor and a natural leader. Those who know him say all he does is work out and study football. Weis said at the end of 2005 that Quinn picked up his offense better than any QB he has ever been around, including Brady. He also seems to be a kid with a level head, not unlike what we saw from Hawk.

Quinn seems to have the size and physical abilities you want, and with him you feel assured that if he fails it won't be because of attitude or lack of effort. He will need a good coach, like all young NFL QBs do. But there is an awful lot to work with in Quinn.

[packrulz]

I agree with Patler, if Quinn drops to 16 TT better grab him, he's not a top 5 QB but he's too good to still be there at #16. Favre is thinking over retirement every year and one of these days he will do it. Arod is unproven, I like him, but what if he gets hurt again? If both turn out to be good QB's you can always trade one later, like SD did with Brees.

[Joemailman]

Packrulz,

Didn't San Diego just end up releasing Brees?

[Zool]

Brees' contract was up actually. They offered him like $2mil per season plus incentives and he felt insulted so he went looking.

[Merlin]

I say the more in camp the merrier. Rogers HAS been given a chance to show his stuff. What has he shown? Put him in there with the #2 or #3 (basically the practice squad) offense and see how he does. That's the only chance Ingle Martin got this past season. Rogers has been with the #1offense every snap he has played in pre-season and they regular season and in two year HAS DONE NOTHING!

By Rogers own admittance he said that he wasn't trying as hard as he could his rookie year because of Favre. Well, what about his second year? He didn't play that much better!

[Merlin]

I wouldn't pass on Quinn. He has been running an NFL style offense with college level players. He has a good arm and can read defenses. He seems to have the leadership qualities as well. That doesn't mean he will be a great NFL QB, but he has the skills. How can you take Rogers and not take Quinn? I still like that kid in Kentucky, Andre' Woodson. He posted a 154.5 rating and the three games I saw him play, he was unfrigginreal!

Andre' Woodson? He's a junior. I doubt he will go early. A great kid who's learned to use everything to make his club move the ball. A great college QB who might never play a down in the NFL.

Yup, I know he is and far as I know he hasn't declared. I like what I see in that kid. He is on a terrible team and yet he finds a way!

[Partial]

I have seen virtually every game Brady Quinn has played at ND, either in person or on television. Many of his sacks have come with a lineman getting absolutely overrun. The pass protection he has received has been amazingly inconsistent. Great at times, but then horrid for several series in the same game. It has been inexplicable to me. Part of having "feel" in the pocket is knowing what to expect from your line in given situations. The ND O-line has been anything but predictable from one series to the next.

Quinn is one tough kid, and he has a stronger arm than many realize. I think his improved accuracy under Weiss has come in part because he has not tried to throw everything as hard as he can. As a feshman, he just gunned it on every throw, and showed a very strong arm. Quinn still experiences streaks of wildness, just like all hard throwers do when they are young. Young pitchers do to. Quinn should get over that as he matures.

69 TDs and 14 interceptions the last two years in almost 900 attempts, for 7000 yards and 63% completions while throwing downfield, outs and not just dinky and dunking can't be overlooked. He is a fierce competitor and a natural leader. Those who know him say all he does is work out and study football. Weis said at the end of 2005 that Quinn picked up his offense better than any QB he has ever been around, including Brady. He also seems to be a kid with a level head, not unlike what we saw from Hawk.

Quinn seems to have the size and physical abilities you want, and with him you feel assured that if he fails it won't be because of attitude or lack of effort. He will need a good coach, like all young NFL QBs do. But there is an awful lot to work with in Quinn.

With that said, I trust Patler and the fact I know he has given this much thought behind the scenes. I fully endorse drafting Quinn is he is available. He won't be, though.

[Partial]

Brees' contract was up actually. They offered him like $2mil per season plus incentives and he felt insulted so he went looking.

In retrospect in more ways than one, I bet the Dolphins are kicking themself that they chose the Pepper over Brees. Who would have thought this kid would finish second in the MVP race and be such a straight up baller when he was a Purdouchebag boilermaker. I saw him play a couple o' times and thought he was overrated.

[Patler]

With that said, I trust Patler and the fact I know he has given this much thought behind the scenes. I fully endorse drafting Quinn is he is available. He won't be, though.

Thanks for the kind words.
But don't forget, I was the one who thought Atlas Herrion would emerge as a viable candidate at guard in 2005! :oops:

[wist43]

I haven't watched much of him...

I'm pretty well convinced that Rodgers can't play though - so QB has to be their #1 need.

If I were TT, I'd definitely be drafting a QB every year (be it the 1st round or the 7th) until I felt like I had a bonafide player at that position.

[KYPack]

With that said, I trust Patler and the fact I know he has given this much thought behind the scenes. I fully endorse drafting Quinn is he is available. He won't be, though.

Thanks for the kind words.
But don't forget, I was the one who thought Atlas Herrion would emerge as a viable candidate at guard in 2005! :oops:

What Partial, you trying to borrow money from Patler er somethin'?


One comment in this thread gave me pause. Nutz said Quinn lacks pocket presence. To me that is ARod's biggest fault. He has some of the poorest pocket presence I've ever seen in a young QB. (see tape on the '05 Baltimore debacle for evidence) The only young QB I've seen with worse pocket presence than AROD, was Aklii Smith. Smith was so uncomfortable in the pocket, he would leave it and walk into sacks.

I don't have the draft expertise of the resident draft nuts (Nutz, ND, HW, Gureski, & Bman) but I do follow the players I've seen. Quinn would have to be a no-brainer as far as I'm concerned.

The faults Nutz ID'ed, I haven't seen. The kid is strong with a rocket arm. He's got a heart like a lion. If we were at 16 with a shot at him, I think you have to take it.

[Patler]

Quinn is a little bit old school in his approach. He will stand in the pocket, make the throw and get drilled right after. He will be more protected by NFL rules than he is in college, and will probably take fewer hits because of it.

I agree with KYP. I've never sensed a lack of awareness from Quinn.

[esoxx]

69 TDs and 14 interceptions the last two years in almost 900 attempts, for 7000 yards and 63% completions while throwing downfield, outs and not just dinky and dunking can't be overlooked.


This is what makes me feel Quinn may be a decent pro and has a leg up over Rodgers. Rodgers came from a system opposite, where dink and dunk was the rule of the day. Typically there were pre-determined reads where the "dink" or the "dunk" was going.

I still feel this is why Rodgers looks so awkward and uncomfortable in the pocket. His experience in vertical passing and multiple reads downfield wasn't something he had to do much of in college, unlike Quinn.

Of course the Packers should draft Quinn if he were there at 16, but I doubt he will be. If I were the Vikings, I would draft him at 7. That's actually my greatest fear in this draft.

[Cheesehead Craig]

One comment in this thread gave me pause. Nutz said Quinn lacks pocket presence. To me that is ARod's biggest fault. He has some of the poorest pocket presence I've ever seen in a young QB. (see tape on the '05 Baltimore debacle for evidence)
If we just use that game as evidence, it would be a valid reason to cut Favre also, he was about as bad.

[Charles Woodson]

#1, Quinn will NOT fall.

#2, A lot of people don't understand how good Brady Quinn actually is. I'm a HUGE Notre Dame fan, and I"ll be the first one to tell you, they were BAD, this year. And the only reason they won, or were even in any games this year, was because of Brady Quinn. He was as important to Notre Dame, as Peyton Manning is to Indy. Without Manning, Indy is an 8-8 team...without Quinn, they were a 3-9 team. Notre Dame is over rated, Brady Quinn is under-rated.

DATE OPPONENT RESULT/TIME
09/02 at Ga Tech W 14-10
09/09 #19 Penn State W 41-17
09/16 #11 Michigan L 47-21
09/23 at Mich St W 40-37
09/30 Purdue W 35-21
10/07 Stanford W 31-10
10/21 UCLA W 20-17
10/28 at Navy W 38-14
11/04 UNC W 45-26
11/11 at Air Force W 39-17
11/18 Army W 41-9
11/25 at #3 USC L 44-24
01/03 vs #3 LSU L 41-14

idk my problem with him is he was always playing from behind. looking at his schedule he didnt beat any "good" teams, and dont even try to tell me penn state should be catarized as good, i mean look at all there losses, they were big like 40-20s, i know brady quinn is good, infact hes a beast and the 16th pick would be great to get him at but i just have a problem with him. I mean you act like he was the ONLY good person out there, i mean he did have Jeff, and Darius walker isnt great but hes not bad.

[KYPack]

One comment in this thread gave me pause. Nutz said Quinn lacks pocket presence. To me that is ARod's biggest fault. He has some of the poorest pocket presence I've ever seen in a young QB. (see tape on the '05 Baltimore debacle for evidence)
If we just use that game as evidence, it would be a valid reason to cut Favre also, he was about as bad.

Yeah, that was a bad game for all.

But there is a ton of tape of Rodgers not having any pocket presence. That's an instinctive thing, but if you don't have, ya gotta learn it. He has improved a little in that area, but not much. The jury is still out on that kid, for sure.

[Packnut]

One comment in this thread gave me pause. Nutz said Quinn lacks pocket presence. To me that is ARod's biggest fault. He has some of the poorest pocket presence I've ever seen in a young QB. (see tape on the '05 Baltimore debacle for evidence)
If we just use that game as evidence, it would be a valid reason to cut Favre also, he was about as bad.

Yeah, that was a bad game for all.

But there is a ton of tape of Rodgers not having any pocket presence. That's an instinctive thing, but if you don't have, ya gotta learn it. He has improved a little in that area, but not much. The jury is still out on that kid, for sure.


His biggest problem is that he has happy feet. If his first read is covered and he feels ANY kind of pressure, he takes off running. I think the majority of us have some serious reservations about Rodgers but that ship has sailed. Now we have to let him play in order to find out about him.

I've got my heart set on Bowe at #16 or a DB if he's not there. Still if Quinn was available, I would'nt be critical if TT did grab him.

[pack4to84]

If Quinn drops to 16 pick there is no way TT passes on him. He reminds me of a Tom Brady type QB.

[Charles Woodson]

If Quinn drops to 16 pick there is no way TT passes on him. He reminds me of a Tom Brady type QB.

curious, What reminds u in him of brady

[PackerPro42]

Well if he reminds you of Brady, I really don't like him. But I agree, that would be the comparison I would make as well.

[Iron Mike]

Any thoughts? I think it would be a GREAT marketing thing for the Pack with Brother in laws on the same team :)

IIRC, in 2000 the Packers drafted Na'il Diggs and Gary Berry, who were either brothers-in-law or uncle/nephew.

Somebody help me here. 8)

[Partial]

Well if he reminds you of Brady, I really don't like him. But I agree, that would be the comparison I would make as well.

Are you saying you don't like the best quarterback in the league, and a lock to be first ballot hall of famer :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :(

[Cheesehead Craig]

If Quinn drops to 16 pick there is no way TT passes on him. He reminds me of a Tom Brady type QB.
He has a loooooooong way to go before any Brady-type comparisons can be made.

[Lurker64]

If Quinn drops to 16 pick there is no way TT passes on him. He reminds me of a Tom Brady type QB.
He has a loooooooong way to go before any Brady-type comparisons can be made.

Yeah, he'd have to fall to the sixth round before I could really compare him to Brady.

[Joemailman]

The problem with saying someone is the next Brady is that Brady was drafted on the 6th round. In other words, Brady had abilities that weren't evident at the time he was drafted. It is always hard to tell who will develop, and who will not, especially with quarterbacks. The best you can do is hope to provide a new QB with as many weapons as possible, and then try to determine if your QB has the capacity to run the offense. So if Quinn were to be available when the Packers pick, I don't think they should invest another 1st round pick in a QB until they can better determine what they have in Rodgers. Trading down to a team looking for a QB, if they can find a trading partner, would be the best move.

[Fritz]

granted he did make that funny looking white wide receiver into an All-American, but he just doesn't have that awarness in the pocket that all the good ones have, ala Brett Favre, Tom Brady, Steve Young, Joe Montana, John Elway. He is a a good athlete but to me he is missing that natural instinct to create on his own, and like it or not that is an important trait to have for an NFL caliber QB.

I think this should be the standard by which ALL QB's should be judged. Favre helped Billy Schroeder get a couple of NFL contracts - thus proving my point.

Patler needs to assimilate this into his complex football equations.

[Fritz]

Whenever I see Packnut's avatar I develop "pocket presence."

[cheesner]

If Quinn drops to 16 pick there is no way TT passes on him. He reminds me of a Tom Brady type QB.
He has a loooooooong way to go before any Brady-type comparisons can be made.
Pack4to84 said he reminds him of a Brady TYPE QB. I would take it to mean he plays a similar style - not that he was necessarily going to be the next Brady.

[Patler]

granted he did make that funny looking white wide receiver into an All-American, but he just doesn't have that awarness in the pocket that all the good ones have, ala Brett Favre, Tom Brady, Steve Young, Joe Montana, John Elway. He is a a good athlete but to me he is missing that natural instinct to create on his own, and like it or not that is an important trait to have for an NFL caliber QB.

I think this should be the standard by which ALL QB's should be judged. Favre helped Billy Schroeder get a couple of NFL contracts - thus proving my point.

Patler needs to assimilate this into his complex football equations.

I think Quinn did that to some extent at ND, because I never believed that Smardzja was that great of a receiver. Big, yes, but sort of lumbering. Certainly not a graceful athlete by any stretch. Quinn was able to maximize the advantages that his receivers gave him, which was mostly size.

[Cheesehead Craig]

If Quinn drops to 16 pick there is no way TT passes on him. He reminds me of a Tom Brady type QB.
He has a loooooooong way to go before any Brady-type comparisons can be made.
Pack4to84 said he reminds him of a Brady TYPE QB. I would take it to mean he plays a similar style - not that he was necessarily going to be the next Brady.
The comparison was made to help bolster an argument as to why he should be taken by the Packers. If he's not taken then we have passed on the next Brady. That was fully implied in the post and I'm not reaching on that.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Whenever I see Packnut's avatar I develop "pocket presence."

Hilarious!