Manning, No MVP

[Merlin]

Can anyone tell me this?

Doesn't the acronym MVP = Most Valuable Player?

And if so can anyone explain to me how the guy who cause two Colts turnovers, only threw 1 TD pass and was whining the whole game got this award?

Better yet, can anyone tell my why the games MVP ran away from the fumble he caused in the first half instead of trying to recover it? Isn't that what an MVP does?

[Cheesehead Craig]

Dominic Rhodes was the most deserving if it had to come down to 1 player, IMO. He just ate up the Chicago run D.

[SudsMcBucky]

And why the HELL was he yelling at Sorgi in the first Q? What an A$$.

[AtownPackFan]

Personally I would have given co-MVP honors to Addia and Rhodes since they put the Colts on their backs and got things turned around.

Probably had a problem because Cadillac didn't bring more then one car to the game so they had to settle on one player. Then given the salaries of the players, they figured Manning would be so embarassed at receiving the Honor he would go out and buy everyone on the team a new Caddy!

The other viable candidate for MVP would have been Sanders. The Colts Defense is a completely different animal when he is in the game.

[red]

Can anyone tell me this?

Doesn't the acronym MVP = Most Valuable Player?

And if so can anyone explain to me how the guy who cause two Colts turnovers, only threw 1 TD pass and was whining the whole game got this award?

Better yet, can anyone tell my why the games MVP ran away from the fumble he caused in the first half instead of trying to recover it? Isn't that what an MVP does?

yeah, i got a kick out of his fumble, what a chickenshit coward

[Merlin]

I agree. Addai deserves some consideration for catching all of those check down passes that the MVP threw when he was scared shitless in the pocket even when a rush wasn't coming. I have ZERO faith in the NFL after Manning won this award. He is a self serving over rated NFL player that would have been quick to throw his whole team under the bus if they didn't win. The Colts won DESPITE MANNING, who did everything he could to lose the game.

[Joemailman]

It would be interesting to know what Manning's teammates really think of him. I suspect he's not very popular. We'll probably never know, however, given Manning's stature with the organization and the press.

[Merlin]

I wonder if the media will pick up on the fact that Manning didn't deserve it. You have to know that a majority of the people out there think the same thing as we do.,

[Partial]

I bet he's loved. He's Peyton freaking Manning. He wins. Straight up.

Perhaps the reason the backs ran so rampant as the Bears would only put 6-7 in the box to shut down the passing attack of Manning?

[Cheesehead Craig]

I bet he's loved. He's Peyton freaking Manning. He wins. Straight up.

Perhaps the reason the backs ran so rampant as the Bears would only put 6-7 in the box to shut down the passing attack of Manning?
Excellent point pussy cat.

The Bears played so much to stop the deep ball that they gave Manning far too much room and opened up that running attack. Addai and Rhodes looked like All-Pros out there.

[b bulldog]

jORDAN'S teammates didn't like him so much either

[Partial]

Thats because the star gets all the attention, all the publicity, and all the awards.

The star makes the other players look better, and thus they think they are better players than they are, and thus deserve more accolade ala the star. It's funny how that works!!

[Merlin]

I bet he's loved. He's Peyton freaking Manning. He wins. Straight up.

Perhaps the reason the backs ran so rampant as the Bears would only put 6-7 in the box to shut down the passing attack of Manning?

Passing attack of "Manning"? You mean the COLTS, Manning is nothing without the talent surrounding him. Take away Wayne & Harrison as the Bears did and what do you get? Mr Chicken Shit check down who got rid of the ball 5 seconds earlier then he needed to. Face it, Rhodes is the MVP, not Manning.

Quiz:
Which one of these Super Bowl QBs Deserves to be an MVP?

14-27 for 246 yards, 0 INT, 2 TD, 0 Fumble
25-42 for 256 yards, 1 INT, 3 TD, 1 Fumble
25-38 for 247 yards, 1 INT, 1 TD, 1 Fumble

[Partial]

I bet he's loved. He's Peyton freaking Manning. He wins. Straight up.

Perhaps the reason the backs ran so rampant as the Bears would only put 6-7 in the box to shut down the passing attack of Manning?

Passing attack of "Manning"? You mean the COLTS, Manning is nothing without the talent surrounding him. Take away Wayne & Harrison as the Bears did and what do you get? Mr Chicken Shit check down who got rid of the ball 5 seconds earlier then he needed to. Face it, Rhodes is the MVP, not Manning.

Quiz:
Which one of these Super Bowl QBs Deserves to be an MVP?

14-27 for 246 yards, 0 INT, 2 TD, 0 Fumble
25-42 for 256 yards, 1 INT, 3 TD, 1 Fumble
25-38 for 247 yards, 1 INT, 1 TD, 1 Fumble

You have to consider the conditions. Rhodes shouldn't even be the MVP over Addai... Addai definitely was the workhorse and Rhodes took advantage of Addai pounding the ball the entire first half.

Manning is nothing without his talent surrounding him? It's like chicken or the egg, is it Manning who makes the talent or is it just that good? Manning, the best QB in the NFL, possibly in the history of the NFL, is like Favre. He makes his receivers better. How many tight ends, receivers and running backs have been the benefactor of playing with Favre and getting a bigger contract than they deserved elsewhere only to dissapoint? I can think of many. It would be the exact same situation with Manning.

Harrison is a great, great receiver. But lets be honest, he would not be a future HOF if Brad Johnson was his quarterback.

[Cheesehead Craig]

jORDAN'S teammates didn't like him so much either


Thats because the star gets all the attention, all the publicity, and all the awards.

The star makes the other players look better, and thus they think they are better players than they are, and thus deserve more accolade ala the star. It's funny how that works!!
This explains why so many people here don't like me! :lol:

[Merlin]

I bet he's loved. He's Peyton freaking Manning. He wins. Straight up.

Perhaps the reason the backs ran so rampant as the Bears would only put 6-7 in the box to shut down the passing attack of Manning?

Passing attack of "Manning"? You mean the COLTS, Manning is nothing without the talent surrounding him. Take away Wayne & Harrison as the Bears did and what do you get? Mr Chicken Shit check down who got rid of the ball 5 seconds earlier then he needed to. Face it, Rhodes is the MVP, not Manning.

Quiz:
Which one of these Super Bowl QBs Deserves to be an MVP?

14-27 for 246 yards, 0 INT, 2 TD, 0 Fumble
25-42 for 256 yards, 1 INT, 3 TD, 1 Fumble
25-38 for 247 yards, 1 INT, 1 TD, 1 Fumble

You have to consider the conditions. Rhodes shouldn't even be the MVP over Addai... Addai definitely was the workhorse and Rhodes took advantage of Addai pounding the ball the entire first half.

Manning is nothing without his talent surrounding him? It's like chicken or the egg, is it Manning who makes the talent or is it just that good? Manning, the best QB in the NFL, possibly in the history of the NFL, is like Favre. He makes his receivers better. How many tight ends, receivers and running backs have been the benefactor of playing with Favre and getting a bigger contract than they deserved elsewhere only to dissapoint? I can think of many. It would be the exact same situation with Manning.

Harrison is a great, great receiver. But lets be honest, he would not be a future HOF if Brad Johnson was his quarterback.

Way to not answer the question. I would expect nothing less I guess.

As far as Manning goes, name one receiver that became a big name at Indy with Manning as the QB that went on to mediocrity with another team. I can't think of one. Put Manning on the 2005 or 2006 Packers. How well does he fair then? Horribly because he can't scramble worth a crap and is terrible under pressure. Those are proven facts. Face it, take away all of the talent he has around him and he is nothing. His brother actually has a better arm and scrambles better, the difference, the talent surrounding him.

[Guiness]

dp

[Guiness]

While I don't think Manning deserved it, it's not like he stunk the joint up the way some are saying.

IMO I think they should've given it to the OL. Two backs around 100yds, and a QB with lots of time to make his progression before having to throw a check down, all against the #1 D in the league this year == an OL doing an excellent job.

Would've been nice too, after PM threw them under the bus earlier this year.

BTW I see Sportsline and a couple of other sites saying Wrex isn't to blame. He isn't???

[Merlin]

As far as Harrison goes, he would be a pro-bowler on any team. They guy has skills and saying it's all Manning is naive. Manning is not known for forcing the ball in there, in fact he usually has so much time in the pocket that any receiver that can do his job will get open for him.

Favre on the other hand forces the players around him to play better. They aren't open the "whack" the ball is there. Favre also doesn't throw his team under the bus when they lose.

Manning was whining the whole game, he isn't a leader, he is a benefactor. The Bears don't need 8 men in the box to stop the run. The offensive line and the running backs did their job, Manning did not do his. Check downs for a high percentage of your passes does not make you and MVP and neither does running away from the fumble you caused. He is a wuss and is NOT the best QB in the NFL. At least when Sexy Rexy fumbled, he tried to recover it. He didn't walk away from the play when he had a good chance of getting it like Ol' Peyton.

[Partial]

I bet he's loved. He's Peyton freaking Manning. He wins. Straight up.

Perhaps the reason the backs ran so rampant as the Bears would only put 6-7 in the box to shut down the passing attack of Manning?

Passing attack of "Manning"? You mean the COLTS, Manning is nothing without the talent surrounding him. Take away Wayne & Harrison as the Bears did and what do you get? Mr Chicken Shit check down who got rid of the ball 5 seconds earlier then he needed to. Face it, Rhodes is the MVP, not Manning.

Quiz:
Which one of these Super Bowl QBs Deserves to be an MVP?

14-27 for 246 yards, 0 INT, 2 TD, 0 Fumble
25-42 for 256 yards, 1 INT, 3 TD, 1 Fumble
25-38 for 247 yards, 1 INT, 1 TD, 1 Fumble

You have to consider the conditions. Rhodes shouldn't even be the MVP over Addai... Addai definitely was the workhorse and Rhodes took advantage of Addai pounding the ball the entire first half.

Manning is nothing without his talent surrounding him? It's like chicken or the egg, is it Manning who makes the talent or is it just that good? Manning, the best QB in the NFL, possibly in the history of the NFL, is like Favre. He makes his receivers better. How many tight ends, receivers and running backs have been the benefactor of playing with Favre and getting a bigger contract than they deserved elsewhere only to dissapoint? I can think of many. It would be the exact same situation with Manning.

Harrison is a great, great receiver. But lets be honest, he would not be a future HOF if Brad Johnson was his quarterback.

Way to not answer the question. I would expect nothing less I guess.

As far as Manning goes, name one receiver that became a big name at Indy with Manning as the QB that went on to mediocrity with another team. I can't think of one. Put Manning on the 2005 or 2006 Packers. How well does he fair then? Horribly because he can't scramble worth a crap and is terrible under pressure. Those are proven facts. Face it, take away all of the talent he has around him and he is nothing. His brother actually has a better arm and scrambles better, the difference, the talent surrounding him.

Peyton's strong suits aren't his arm or his scrambling ability. They are that he is in essence he is a coach on the field, and can read a defense better than anyone in the history of the NFL. I didn't answer your question because it is a stupid question. Extremely stupid. How can you compare stats from a game where there were POOLS of water on the sidelines and an incredibly slick ball from one where there wasn't? It is idiotic to do so. It is also moronic to look entirely at stats in determining the MVP. The MVP generally doesn't have the best stats because teams have to cater their scheme to stop him, thus opening up opportunities for other players.

It goes without saying that Brian Urlacher is the best LB in the NFL. Look at his stats for a change. They're maybe top 10 when you balance it all out, but they aren't by far the best.

Comparing Eli to Peyton at this point is laughable. Fucking laughable.

Eli has the better tight end. He has an equal #1. He has an infinitely better running back. He also has a much, much, much better defense. Laughable man, Ha!

[Partial]

jORDAN'S teammates didn't like him so much either


Thats because the star gets all the attention, all the publicity, and all the awards.

The star makes the other players look better, and thus they think they are better players than they are, and thus deserve more accolade ala the star. It's funny how that works!!
This explains why so many people here don't like me! :lol:


:lol: :lol:

[Merlin]

I don't think Rex is entirely to blame either. I think that rests with the coaches. They had a game plan but part of that was to pound the ball then go over the top for a few quick hitters. The only way that works is if you have a QB who can throw the ball. They should have dinked and dunked along with the running game. They were close until the INT for a TD (And MVP type play BTW and one that changed the whole game). I give the Bears defense credit for holding down the Colts passing game (notice I didn't say "Mannings Passing Game"). The problem there is that they were too over confident that they could stop the run with only two LB's on the field. Urlacher played tough but once the RB gets to that second level and there is a OL there to take out the LB, it's going to go for a big gain.

[Partial]

I don't think Rex is entirely to blame either. I think that rests with the coaches. They had a game plan but part of that was to pound the ball then go over the top for a few quick hitters. The only way that works is if you have a QB who can throw the ball.

If there is one thing that is exceptionally solid about Rex, it is his arm. He has had great success with that deep ball to Berrian this year.

[Merlin]

It's nice to see Partial that you never let reality interfere with your logic. Keep on spewing all of those sound bytes from the media, you know they are ALWAYS true!

[Merlin]

I don't think Rex is entirely to blame either. I think that rests with the coaches. They had a game plan but part of that was to pound the ball then go over the top for a few quick hitters. The only way that works is if you have a QB who can throw the ball.

If there is one thing that is exceptionally solid about Rex, it is his arm. He has had great success with that deep ball to Berrian this year.

He has had some I don't argue that. So did Dante Cullpepper!

[Partial]

I don't think Rex is entirely to blame either. I think that rests with the coaches. They had a game plan but part of that was to pound the ball then go over the top for a few quick hitters. The only way that works is if you have a QB who can throw the ball.

If there is one thing that is exceptionally solid about Rex, it is his arm. He has had great success with that deep ball to Berrian this year.

He has had some I don't argue that. So did Dante Cullpepper!

I guess. I can't fault the Bears for putting it all on the line and going for the deep pass against the cover 2 ( which is going to double any receiver going deep in its efforts to minimize the big play ) , because Indy had the momentum at that point and they knew they would have lost the game if they didn't knock one out of the park. The ball wasn't actually thrown that badly. It was the first pick that was an awful pass.

[Merlin]

Rex threw into triple coverage earlier deep and if he didn't throw it so far, the receiver actually would have had a good chance to grab it.

I think both QB's weren't putting much on the ball because there were a lot of floaters from both of them. Even Mannings TD to Wayne was way under thrown. Grossman needs to work on throwing in the weather more, he had no touch on the deep ball at all. It either hung up there or was a rocket over everyone.

[MadtownPacker]

There where throwing lanes open but grossboy couldnt force it in. instead he threw up rainbow that had no chance.

The 37 yr old gunslinger would have had his way with the Colts D rain or shine.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'd venture to say that Favre played better in both of his Super Bowl games than half of the MVP winning QBs in the Super Bowl. Of course, guys like bulldog will use that as a way to rip Favre. As if Howard winning the MVP should be a rip on Favre. He was still the most valuable player on both of those Super Bowl teams, and he probably played as well as any Packer in those two games. Howard was just the Cinderella story, but without Favre's two audibles into two long TDs, his TD run, and his two point conversion, Green Bay doesn't win.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Which one of these Super Bowl QBs Deserves to be an MVP?

14-27 for 246 yards, 0 INT, 2 TD, 0 Fumble
25-42 for 256 yards, 1 INT, 3 TD, 1 Fumble
25-38 for 247 yards, 1 INT, 1 TD, 1 Fumble

14-27 for 246 yards, 0 int, 0 fumbles, and 3 TDs. Favre ran for one also. Not to mention he converted a two-point conversion to Chmura.

Favre averaged 250 yards and had 5 passing, 1 rushing TD, 1 interception, 1 fumble in the two Super Bowl games.

Manning had a good game. Can't take that away from him. I thought he was going to implode early, but the Colts were such a better team that I think it allowed him to settle down and play normal Peyton Manning football. This was just a complete team victory.

[wist43]

Manning was obviously the MVP... w/o Manning, Rhodes doesn't run for 20 yds in the game.

Indy's run game is completely predicated upon Manning and the passing game... as I said, w/o Manning, the running game goes nowhere.

[Partial]

Manning was obviously the MVP... w/o Manning, Rhodes doesn't run for 20 yds in the game.

Indy's run game is completely predicated upon Manning and the passing... as I said, w/o Manning, the running game goes nowhere.

Yep. Merlin fails to understand the impact that super-duper stars have on a game and how they dictate what the other team does play after play after play.

[b bulldog]

Well that is definitely argueable. Howard is the guy that put them over the top in 96 as Jones,Butler and Brown noted numerous times and Brett did play well against the Pats but against Denver, 25-46,256 yards and 1 td, 1pic while Manning was 25-38, 247 yards and 1 td and 1 pic. Those numbers look real close to me but I guess I'm wrong there. Against the Pats he was 14-27 with 247 and 2 td's and 0 pics. The Pats game was definitely better but Reggie's 3 sacks and Howards dagger return overshadowed Brett's day imo.Brett played better in the first game and well in the second game but came up short on the errant pass to chewey during the final drive. These numbers are actually pretty close to what Manning put up last night. Howard had 244 return yards against the Pats, no brainer in regards to MVP. Why do so many in here always want to rip the other great QB's?? manning finally got the job done, now he's putting himself up for a chance at being in the top 3 of alltime. Brett wasn't the reason why they lost to Denver but like all losing teams players, he had a hand in it as did Brady when his teams lose in the playoffs. The same can be said about every dominant QB or player in thAT REGARD. It was Mannings night, let him be happy, why rip him.

[b bulldog]

hARV, HOW ABOUT ADDING 244 RETURN YARDS AND A 99 YARD TD! I'll take him.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Brett did play well against the Pats but against Denver, 25-46,256 yards and 1 td, 1pic

Ummm... Brett threw 3 TDs in that game. The first one was a beauty to Freeman in the back of the endzone to put them on top. The second was a beautiful touch pass to Chewy at the end of the half to keep them in the game. The third was a pretty easy bullet to Freeman to tie the game up in the fourth quarter. After that momentum changing and game tying drive, and aging defense allowed Terrell Davis to continue to ride roughshod all over them and get the game winning TD.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Brett did play well against the Pats but against Denver, 25-46,256 yards and 1 td, 1pic

And he was 25 of 42. Elway was 12 of 22 for 123 yards, 1 TD, 1 pick in the same game.

[HarveyWallbangers]

hARV, HOW ABOUT ADDING 244 RETURN YARDS AND A 99 YARD TD! I'll take him.

Howard was deserving, no doubt. But Favre played well in that game. It was a tossup. Go back to the commentary in that game, and you'll notice the announcers talking about what a tossup it would be in the game between Favre and Howard for MVP. Both long TDs were audibles by Favre.

BTW, Howard had 234 yards returning and 99 was on the kickoff return. His other 3 kick returns netted less than 20 yards a return and his 6 punt returns netted him 15 yards/return. Tremendous blocking on that last one. Beebe was a blocker and didn't have anybody to block. That was a tremendous team--much like a lot of teams that win a Super Bowl.

[b bulldog]

he also had punt returns in the area of 27 and 34 yards

[b bulldog]

reggie white had a record three sacks also

[HarveyWallbangers]

This isn't to rip on Manning. He played well. Howard played well also. But to insinuate Favre didn't play well is ludicrous. Tom Brady won a Super Bowl MVP in a game that he went 16 of 27 for 145 yards, 1 TD, and 0 interceptions. Favre didn't win it in a game that he went 14 of 27 for 246 yards, 2 passing TDs, 1 rushing TD, 1 two point conversion, and 0 turnovers. So, Brady played well, but Favre played pretty damn well also.

[b bulldog]

I missed the third TD in the Denver game, my bad. The signature play in the broncos game was the run by Elway. His numbers were pedestrian but he willed that team to a victory on that drive.

[HarveyWallbangers]

he also had punt returns in the area of 27 and 34 yards

On Howard's other three kick returns he had 55 yards. That's less than 19 yards/kickoff. That's below average. He did well, but not exceptional on his punt returns: 6 for 90 yards. 15 yard average is solid, but not exceptional. Credit a great team for giving him many opportunities, credit a great special teams unit that gave him blocking, and credit him for taking advantage.

[MadtownPacker]

Yeah I was gonna say, 3 TD, not 1.

Bulldog - You are losing ground with your arguement when you dont even know YOUR own team's QB stats.

[b bulldog]

Six punt returns for 90 yards an average of 15 yards per return and 154 yards on 4 returns, great day by a special teamer.

[b bulldog]

THE pATS /pHILLY GAME, Brady was 23-33 with two TD's AND 0 PICS AND bRANCH WON THE AWARD. Against Carolina, he had 3 TD's and 1 pic and threw for 354 yards and won the award. Against the Rams he was 16-27 with 1 td and only 145 yards as you noted but was the leader of one of the biggest upsets in SB history. In all fairness, one could argue that Brady should have been the MVP in each SB victory or you could also argue that he was only deserving against Carolina. Two out of the three is probably correct.

[b bulldog]

I misread them from the stats page, I was wrong. Howard had one faircatch so he actually returned punts five times for 90 yards, averaging 18 per return with a long of 34. I guess these numbers were the reason why he was the MVP of the game as with the 49er game. 244 return yards is a great day and every Packers fan knew it. He was the man!

[Patler]

What's the big deal about who gets the MVP award? It's meaningless, because every winning team usually has several deserving players.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I misread them from the stats page, I was wrong. Howard had one faircatch so he actually returned punts five times for 90 yards, averaging 18 per return with a long of 34. I guess these numbers were the reason why he was the MVP of the game as with the 49er game. 244 return yards is a great day and every Packers fan knew it. He was the man!

Ummm... a fair catch doesn't count against a returner's total returns. If a guy has 7 punt returns, returns 6 for 90 yards, and fair catches 1. His stats will look like this:



RET FC YDS AVG
6 1 90 15.0

[b bulldog]

damn that Manning, now we can't say he didn't win the big one or maybe now we can say he didn't lose the big one. Give it up, give him his due. He didn't wow anyone with his numbers but the way he played against the Pats, I'm fine with him getting the award. He is a great QB who will own all the records if he stays healthy. He said he would still like to play 8-10 years. Brett was once great, now he is old and average but he isn't a liability but he is no where near a top 3 qb. brett wuill break every record this season, good and bad but Manning will own the record book when he retires and even if Brett still does own the records, he'll most be remembered for a being a tough QB who had loads of fun and had the arm of a cannon and always made things interesting. He'll also be a first ballot HOFer and a top 10 qb.

[b bulldog]

What's your point, I thought it ws part of the returns, my bad AGAIN :lol: BUT i'D ADVISE you to watch the game again. The Pats stopped the Pack in the second half and had the momentum after their score until Howard ran 99 yards for the TD and Reggie closed the door with his three sacks. You want to argue who was better, Reggie was the best player on that team, even at his age, pretty much all the players knew it as it has been pointed out time and time again in the books regarding the 96 team. You keep trying to put other great QB's down in order to make Brett look better and this thread had plenty of posts pointing how Manning didn't deserve it before I got involved. One more thing, stats say quite a bit but the flow of the game and what who does what at key moments will give you your MVP. Elway is a prime example and som is Howard, even though he was the weapon of choice during the 96 season.

[HarveyWallbangers]

You want to argue who was better, Reggie was the best player on that team

That's highly debatable. Favre was in the middle of his three-time MVP streak. Reggie was the best DE in history. I'd still take one of the top 5 QBs over the best DE. Reggie was at the end of his career. Favre was in his prime. That defense was loaded and ranked #1. Green Bay's offense wasn't loaded (except for #4) and ranked #1.


You keep trying to put other great QB's down in order to make Brett look better and this thread had plenty of posts pointing how Manning didn't deserve it before I got involved.

When did I say Manning didn't deserve it? Look in the mirror pal. Just pointing out another counter to your tired rip on Favre that he never won a Super Bowl MVP. I don't think I need to go back and point out the numerous times you've stated this in your attempt to take away from Brett's accomplishments.

[b bulldog]

Howard had two less yards than Brett had passing and he only touched the ball 10 times, come on, you can't be serious about being a tossup, can you?

[MadtownPacker]

What's the big deal about who gets the MVP award? It's meaningless, because every winning team usually has several deserving players.Nice double backhand Patler!!

I doubt Favre really cares about being the SB MVP. Hell I bet any QB would pass it up in exchange for a STs TD.

[b bulldog]

the Packers O had two great TE's, two solid rb's, two very good wr's and one solid three wr in Beebe and a very good Oline. You say Howard gets credit along with his unit for their success but when it comes to Brett, he only had good or decent talent, love the double talk. Once again, you know more about the players than the coaches and the players did themselves, funny, but I'll take their word for it.

[b bulldog]

The award may be meaningless but in big time games, players who step up and stick out in terms of their play should be rewarded. My vote last night would have been for Addai and Rhodes as coMVP's but everybody knows that it would be Mannings if the Colts won and if the Packers get back, Brett will probably get it.It can be similiar to the Heisman. When was the last time the best player in college football won the Heisman?? Last season was debateable with Bush but I thought all along that Young was better and he proved it during the Rose Bowl.

[MadtownPacker]

Last season was debateable with Bush but I thought all along that Young was better and he proved it during the Rose Bowl.
Umm Bulldog, that was the year befores Heisman race. :oops:

[HarveyWallbangers]

the Packers O had two great TE's, two solid rb's, two very good wr's and one solid three wr in Beebe and a very good Oline. You say Howard gets credit along with his unit for their success but when it comes to Brett, he only had good or decent talent, love the double talk. Once again, you know more about the players than the coaches and the players did themselves, funny, but I'll take their word for it.

You keep saying this in your back-handed compliments to Favre, but I answered this in a previous thread. Freeman wasn't a very good WR yet. Brooks got injured, so Rison started much of the year. Rison at that point in his career was nothing more than an average starter. What did he average 2 catches/game in his stint with the Packers? The RBs were solid, but nothing great. The OL was not "very good." They had a rookie RG and a washed up street FA who started after Michels failed. Favre made that OL look a lot better with the escapability he had at the time. Most great offenses have more than two great TEs, two decent WRs, two decent RBs, and an average OL. Are you kidding me? Great offenses have Marshall Faulk, Isaac Bruce, and Torry Holt. They have Edgerrin James, Marvin Harrison, and Reggie Wayne. They have Randy Moss, Cris Carter, Jake Reed, and Robert Smith. Their OL personnel was FAR from dominant.

[Patler]

What's the big deal about who gets the MVP award? It's meaningless, because every winning team usually has several deserving players.Nice double backhand Patler!!

I doubt Favre really cares about being the SB MVP. Hell I bet any QB would pass it up in exchange for a STs TD.

Exactly. Fans and some in the media make a bigger deal out of it than it deserves. Any award that is voted on by fans and/or the media tends to be a poapularity based award as much as anything.

[Ballboy]

I think the real reason he won is that Cadillac wanted a face for a possibility of a commercial in the future....who better than Manning?

[Patler]

Brooks got injured, so Rison started much of the year.

Not exactly. Rison only played 5 regular season games with the Packers, and started 4 of them.

Brooks was injured early, but Rison wasn't brought in until Freeman was injured, too.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Brooks got injured, so Rison started much of the year.

Not exactly. Rison only played 5 regular season games with the Packers, and started 4 of them.

Brooks was injured early, but Rison wasn't brought in until Freeman was injured, too.

My point was that it wasn't like Brooks and a proven Freeman were the starters. It was old an Don Beebe and an old Andre Rison that started for much of the year. To say their WRs were "very good" is a huge stretch. I'd say they were average, at best. Rison started 7 games that year (including postseason). How many receptions did Rison have in those 7 games?

[esoxx]

One more thing, stats say quite a bit but the flow of the game and what who does what at key moments will give you your MVP. Elway is a prime example


What is your point here about Elway?

I don't think you know what your talking about.

[Patler]

Brooks got injured, so Rison started much of the year.

Not exactly. Rison only played 5 regular season games with the Packers, and started 4 of them.

Brooks was injured early, but Rison wasn't brought in until Freeman was injured, too.

My point was that it wasn't like Brooks and a proven Freeman were the starters. It was old an Don Beebe and an old Andre Rison that started for much of the year. To say their WRs were "very good" is a huge stretch. I'd say they were average, at best. Rison started 7 games that year (including postseason). How many receptions did Rison have in those 7 games?

I agree completely. I've argued this same point many times to those who talk about what a great signing it was by Wolf to bring Rison in. He finished the regular season with 13 receptions, 135 yards and 1 TD in 5 games. He was virtually a non-factor, and if it wasn't for the Super Bowl TD, everyone would have forgotten by now that he was even in GB.

[b bulldog]

Elways play against Atlanta was huge and he made the huge throws against Atlanta to beat them. That was my point about Elway and also that SB 32 will always be remembered for his play for the first down. He didn't get the MVP but he made the play of the game.John had mediocre numbers but made The PLAY when it counted! Brooks's injury happened against Frisco in week 7 and was looked at as a very good WR and 96 was Free's coming out party. Beebe did have 700 yards recieving that season and rison had a decent postseason. The TE position also gave them 68 receptions for close to 900 yards.

[b bulldog]

One thing I really need help with, is that if your not #4 and your a successful QB, the masses in here will try to tear you down in order to prop #4 up :lol: This attitude is what drives the Favre haters which you could label me as but I gave him credit last season for playing more smartly but all this 4 idolatry is funny but to my fault, I let it get under my skin and I should be above that. Truth is, Brett has won as many SB's as Trent Dilfer!

[SD GB fan]

i believe the first post questioned the meaning of most VALUABLE player, which means it shouldnt be decided based on stats alone. granted, it was a tough call to name MVP in that game but i think manning deserved it or at least consideration. yeah manning didnt look too good on paper, but how he dictated the offense (in the rain) was good enough. but i think the real MVP(s) is the o-line.

[Iron Mike]

Erm, think of how many MORE commercials we're gonna see now starring laser rocket arm:

http://img456.imageshack.us/img456/3654/laserrocketphotodq9.jpg

[cpk1994]

Brooks got injured, so Rison started much of the year.

Not exactly. Rison only played 5 regular season games with the Packers, and started 4 of them.

Brooks was injured early, but Rison wasn't brought in until Freeman was injured, too.

My point was that it wasn't like Brooks and a proven Freeman were the starters. It was old an Don Beebe and an old Andre Rison that started for much of the year. To say their WRs were "very good" is a huge stretch. I'd say they were average, at best. Rison started 7 games that year (including postseason). How many receptions did Rison have in those 7 games?

I agree completely. I've argued this same point many times to those who talk about what a great signing it was by Wolf to bring Rison in. He finished the regular season with 13 receptions, 135 yards and 1 TD in 5 games. He was virtually a non-factor, and if it wasn't for the Super Bowl TD, everyone would have forgotten by now that he was even in GB.

You use Rison's stat line to say Rison was a non factor. You need to look beyond the stat line to seee what his real contirbution was. He took the heat off of Freeman. Opponents had so much respect for Rison they left Freeman alone. If they had not signed Rison, Freeman would not have had nearly the stats he had after he came back from injury. To say Rison was a non-factor just shows stupidity. Contributions go beyond stats.

[Zool]

Patler is stupid apparently. Who knew?

[Patler]

You use Rison's stat line to say Rison was a non factor. You need to look beyond the stat line to seee what his real contirbution was. He took the heat off of Freeman. Opponents had so much respect for Rison they left Freeman alone. If they had not signed Rison, Freeman would not have had nearly the stats he had after he came back from injury. To say Rison was a non-factor just shows stupidity. Contributions go beyond stats.

Rison was a guy who signed a huge ( for that time) FA contract with Cleveland, and was cut after one season. Cleveland had given him a $5 million bonus on a 5 year contract. He signed with Jacksonville, and was waived after 10 games. Otherwise he wouldn't even have been available to the Packers. He was so valuable, that the Packers made no effort to re-sign him after his outstanding "contributions" during his short stint in GB.

It made for a nice story, but Rison didn't raise any concerns for the opponents. He was simply a declining veteran who had been a top receiver, but was nothing more than an average guy with experience.

[esoxx]

I see Rison in '96 as more than just an experienced receiver but less than a stud who allowed Freeman to be "alone."

Rison's arrival seemed to re-energize the team to an extent. You have to remember, they had just lost two straight and were shut down in Dallas. The injuries to the WR corps had taken their toll. His signing gave new life to the offense. They did not lose a game the rest of the season.

[Patler]

I see Rison in '96 as more than just an experienced receiver but less than a stud who allowed Freeman to "be wide open."

Rison's arrival seemed to re-energize the team to an extent. You have to remember, they had just lost two straight and were shut down in Dallas. The injuries to the WR corps had taken their toll. His signing gave new life to the offense. They did not lose a game the rest of the season.

I agree with that. I think it did give the team a bit of an emotional lift. If nothing else, it showed that Wolf was willing to take chances to preserve their shot in the playoffs. Many critics thought Rison was such a bad apple that he would ruin the lockerroom attitude. Wolf said he knew his team well enough that no one would upstage White or Favre. He also admitted that he was ready to and told Rison he would be cut immediately at the first hint of a problem from his attitude.

But coming in and catching 13 passes for 135 yards while playing 5 games and starting 4 games didn't produce much of an impact in the passing game. I stand by my opinion that but for his Super Bowl TD, many Packer fans would have forgotten already that Andre Rison was on the team.

[Scott Campbell]

Hey, that reminds me - remember when his crazy celebrity gf/wife burned his house down?

[woodbuck27]

Dominic Rhodes was the most deserving if it had to come down to 1 player, IMO. He just ate up the Chicago run D.

I agree.

Peyton Manning rode his two horses at RB all game. Rookie RB Joseph Addai was used to the point that he seemed to burn out.

[woodbuck27]

http://www.superbowl.com/news/story/9976760

Rhodes, Addai validate Polian's decision

By Pat Kirwan
NFL.com Senior Analyst


MIAMI (Feb. 5, 2007) -- Let's all give a round of applause for Peyton Manning and the brilliant career that can now be defined by a world championship and a Super Bowl MVP award. The Colts couldn't have won without his brilliant leadership, and he would be the first to recognize that his running backs were an incredible piece to the puzzle that made it all possible.

The Bears were supposed to be the team with the great tandem of backs who were going to shelter Rex Grossman with a big day running the ball, but as it turned out, Joseph Addai and Dominic Rhodes were the men who had the super performance.

It was no surprise to me or the people inside the Colts organization who made the big decision last March not to pay Edgerrin James to stay with the Colts but rather to turn to Rhodes and draft a running back in April.

When the draft came around, the Colts found themselves a multi-talented player from LSU (Addai) who looked like a kid who could deliver more explosive runs and a great pair of hands. The plan was for Rhodes to handle most of the pass protection and short-yardage issues while Addai would be brought along to take care of the first- and second-down plays.

Keep in mind Rhodes was once the undrafted rookie who stepped in for an injured James and responded with a 1,000-yard season. He could start as long as it took for Addai to learn the ropes. Well, what transpired and culminated in hoisting the Super Bowl trophy in the first year of the two-headed monster at running back was a tandem that couldn't be beat by the Bears defense. Or, for that matter, the Chiefs, Ravens or Patriots during the playoff run.

As the 12-4 regular season came to an end, Rhodes and Addai were getting 30 touches per game for 143 yards per game. That is a heck of an effort from two men during a 16-game season that features Peyton Manning, Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne.

While the three perennial Pro Bowl selections were stealing the headlines, the "workhorse backs" were building the foundation for the offense. By the way, Cedric Benson and Thomas Jones averaged 30 touches for 130 yards during the regular season, but the average fan would believe the Bears runners were producing more yards than the Colts backs.

Along came the three playoff games leading up to the world championship, and the Addai-Rhodes workload increased to 39 touches for 170 yards per game. That's an increase of nine plays and 27 yards in some tough sledding against the Nos. 1, 6 and 16 defenses in the NFL. The Bears tandem was experiencing some success, but at 40 touches for 162 yards per game fell short once again to Addai and Rhodes.

On to the big game. What else has to be said about Rhodes and Addai on the greatest stage of all against the fifth-ranked defense in the NFL except awesome!

Manning struggled in the first series of the game trying to establish the offense. There was only one run and five passes in a drive that ended with an interception. The hint that big things were to come was Addai's 14-yard run on second-and-10. From the second series on, Manning leaned heavily on his two runners, and they responded. Early in the MVP voting, both backs were collecting a fair share of votes because as the night came to an end, they produced 41 touches for 264 yards. They delivered when the Colts needed it most.

As pass protectors, they were excellent. Manning read a pass defense and they killed the Bears with the draw. Manning wanted to push the Bears linebackers into deep drops and hit the checkdown route to the backs. Addai led all players with 10 receptions.

What a night for an offense that is now truly balanced. What a night for Bill Polian, who took a chance by not resigning James, and what a night for two guys who should be in Colts uniforms for a long time.

[prsnfoto]

I agree that a SB MVP is not that important, I guess I would have liked to see one of the backs get it but so what, one thing you all are forgetting is Manning was horrible 50% of this years post season average 25% and good 25% had it not been for his kicker,defense and running game they don't get to the SB. All the Favre bashers would be stringing him up for 7 picks. As far as the Favre debate goes I have no problem with Howard getting the MVP or all the Reggie love but, Favre was 90% of why they got there,no player on that team had a 1000 yards yet 6 had over 500 hence he was season MVP. Has that ever happened weren't they the #1 offense that year with no 1000 yard player. The next year Howard was gone, Reggie was not the same, and the Offense was firing strong on all cylinders, but it was not enough and as many people have tried to persuade me Favre lost the SB they are wrong Reggie and the defense lost that SB they couldn't stop TD if their lives would've depended on it. The good FUCKING news the Bear trolls are gone and they still suck.

[esoxx]

But coming in and catching 13 passes for 135 yards while playing 5 games and starting 4 games didn't produce much of an impact in the passing game. I stand by my opinion that but for his Super Bowl TD, many Packer fans would have forgotten already that Andre Rison was on the team.


Probably so, but that Super Bowl TD was a pretty big deal, setting the tone.

He was a nice compliment to the offense. His bigger impact came in the post-season where in three games he had 143 yards and two TD's.

[HarveyWallbangers]

The point was to argue whether Rison contributed to the Super Bowl, but to point out that he wasn't anywhere near what he used to be, and to claim Favre's WRs that year were "very good" was a dramatic overstatement. Rison didn't do anything with Cleveland or Jacksonville the 1 1/2 years prior to that. He didn't do much after that. He looked solid in Green Bay because he had a QB who was playing MVP caliber ball. Favre is the one who recognized the coverage on that TD and audibled to that play. He said he saw San Fran audible to that play earlier in the day when he was watching replays of previous Super Bowls. His offensive personnel wasn't bad, but it was primarily because of him that the offense scored the most points that year. That offense certainly didn't have overwhelming offensive talent like some of the other mint offenses in history. He had a barely above average OL, great TEs, solid RBs, and average WRs. The reason they were #1 was because of their MVP QB.

[Patler]

His bigger impact came in the post-season where in three games he had 143 yards and two TD's.

I don't mean to dismiss the significance of that one play, because it was a very significant play in the Super Bowl. But again, if you take away the one play, he had 6 receptions for 89 yards in 3 games. A solid performance, but not one that would have burned itself in the memories of the average fan (although most GB fans are anything but "average"!)

Signing Rison probably helped some, but I don't know that in the end it really meant all that much. As I recall, he also had something like 3 fumbles (I'm too lazy to verify that) in his 8 games in GB. Again, it made for a nice story, and simply adds to the myths and folklore surrounding the Packers, but the significance of his signing has been inflated over the years, in my opinion.

[Patler]

Favre is the one who recognized the coverage on that TD and audibled to that play. He said he saw San Fran audible to that play earlier in the day when he was watching replays of previous Super Bowls.

I heard something that also gave Rison a lot of credit for that play too, and as I recall, it was something like this: Favre made the audible call, which should have meant that he would go to Freeman. Freeman either missed the call, or misread the defense and his route adjustment. Rison saw that, and altered his route to get to where Freeman should have been. It was something like that.

[b bulldog]

Rison brought back the swagger to the O and allowed Free more space.