MOSS TO GREEN BAY?

[woodbuck27]

http://www.nj.com/columns/times/eckel/index.ssf?/base/columns-0/117117048861730.xml&coll=5

Around the NFL/By Mark Eckel


Sunday, February 11, 2007


MOSS TO GREEN BAY ?

The rumors are growing so loud they made it to ESPN last week -- wide receiver Randy Moss could be headed to Green Bay, a team he made a living against and drew the ire of the fans when he was a Viking.

It's no secret Oakland would like to move the high-priced receiver; it does come as somewhat of a surprise that the Packers would be interested. Except for the fact that with Brett Favre deciding to return next season, and the NFC being the NFC, Green Bay realizes they can go for it.

Moss, who once faked mooning the Green Bay crowd, would give Favre the star he needs on offense to go with a young, improving defense.

[woodbuck27]

http://football.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ/Ya&sdn=football&cdn=sports&tm=27&gps=81_6_788_387&f=00&tt=14&bt=1&bts=1&zu
=http%3A//www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

POSTED 7:27 a.m. EST, February 11, 2007

FAVRE'S PAST WORDS PUT MOSS RUMORS INTO CONTEXT

When we addressed last Sunday the rumors linking Raiders receiver Randy Moss to the Packers, we mentioned that we recalled a negative reaction from Packers quarterback Brett Favre to Randy's "I play when I wanna play" comments from November 2001.

Thanks to one of our friends in the "real" media, we've obtained the text of the article. (We also tried to purchase the article on the New York Times web site. We paid our $4.95, but after completing the transaction we still couldn't get beyond the one-line abstract. We wonder how many others have had this problem -- and how many thereafter have taken the time to track down the $4.95 they handed over to the Times.)

The article was published on December 16, 2001, and it was written by Mike Freeman, a friend of PFT who has advertised two of his books -- Bloody Sundays and Jim Brown: The Fierce Life of an American Hero -- in this space.

Here's what Favre told Freeman in response to the the Moss admission of lollygagging.

"I was sitting there getting taped, and he popped into my thoughts and I don't know why," Favre said.

"I guess because we don't have anyone on our team like that in terms of what seems to be a poor attitude and work ethic. And don't get me wrong. There is no one in this league who puts fear in people more than Randy Moss. I think what players around the league like me who read some of his comments get upset about is that he can dominate any one game but I don't know if he has what it takes mentally to dominate all the time.

"If I was Randy I would feel bad about what I said," Favre added, "because he was given a lot of money to be a professional and his comments are not something a true professional would ever say. . . . I'm sure I'm speaking for a lot of players when I say this, that what he said doesn't just make him look bad, it makes players in general look bad. Some fans may think other players feel the same way he does, and that couldn't be further from the truth.

"I don't know Randy, but at some point in the future he'll regret what he said. If he doesn't, he's not a smart guy."

Favre also explained what would have happened if Moss had made such comments as a member of the Packers:

"Our veterans would step up and take care of the problem. It wouldn't happen on this team. On this team there are no individuals, no selfish players, and if they become that way, they're gone. Every team in this league has a superstar. Some have five and some have 10. But the great franchises that have been successful, including this one, they pull for each other.

"He's a great player, but the only way to be great, play after play and game after game, and be a great team player, is to constantly work hard. That's the key."

Five years later, Moss is far worse than he was in 2001 when it comes to selfishness and pouting and not playing hard all the time, if ever. It could be a product of his unhappiness with the fact that his current team isn't winning games and he isn't making highlight-reel touchdown catches.

But there's no guarantee that he would regain in Green Bay the form that made him one of the best receivers in the league for the first seven years of his career. And if he doesn't, he could quickly revert to his turdish ways.

Sure, he might be all smiles and good attitude when coming through the door -- just like he was in Oakland two years ago. Before long, however, Moss could be showing his ass to the same fans that he pretended to moon during a playoff game after the 2004 season, if he isn't the focal point of Favre's fastballs.

Bottom line -- he's not worth the risk, especially since it appears that he has lost a lot of the magic that he used to be able to display.

When he wanted to.

[packinpatland]

Bottom line. Can he continue to catch.

[FritzDontBlitz]

one of the most memeroable clips i have ever seen of randy moss is the one where the vikings are leading the pack during crunch time, and as the green bay offense is about to take the field for the decisive drive moss bolts from the bench and says "of course i wanna see this, its brett favre!" or something to that effect. it isn't a long clip/sound bite but those few seconds conveyed a lot about the admiration moss has for favre and what he can do.

if tt signs moss to join brett at lambeau, moss will want to play.

sign him.

[woodbuck27]

Another rumor'd option:

The free agent wide receivers aren't special. But there are some intriguing prospects.

Philadelphia's Donte' Stallworth has the deep speed Green Bay desperately needs and could be an ideal complement to Donald Driver. ... Green Bay has also reportedly shown some interest in trading for Oakland bad boy Randy Moss, something Favre supposedly supports.


Posted February 09, by Ben Maller
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[retailguy]

one of the most memeroable clips i have ever seen of randy moss is the one where the vikings are leading the pack during crunch time, and as the green bay offense is about to take the field for the decisive drive moss bolts from the bench and says "of course i wanna see this, its brett favre!" or something to that effect. it isn't a long clip/sound bite but those few seconds conveyed a lot about the admiration moss has for favre and what he can do.

if tt signs moss to join brett at lambeau, moss will want to play.

sign him.


How do you KNOW this? This is the same crap people said about TO going to Philly to play with McNabb and going to Dallas to play for Parcels and with Bledsoe. That didn't work out so well, did it?

If Moss had gone to Oakland and given it his all, every play, EVEN WHEN the team sucked and been a "team guy" I might buy this. He hasn't and I don't buy it.

He's still a "me first asshole" and always will be, regardless of what any of us think. He continues to prove it, over and over again with his on field antics captured by the TV crews, and his off field antics of refusing to take a phone call from the coach (his boss). MOSS HAS NOT CHANGED.

I don't think he wants to either. From my vantage point he is still the same selfish jerk he has always been.

I'm off my soap box now.

:wink:

[retailguy]

Bottom line. Can he continue to catch.

Yes. When HE wants to. And that's the problem.

[ND72]

If TT and MM go after him, they are total hipocrites in finding "Packer People"...cause he's not a "packer person"...which in MY opinion, is a high character person, which he's not. Randy Moss in wisconsin won't work. he will do something, and ruin whatever MM is starting to build.

[FritzDontBlitz]

one of the most memeroable clips i have ever seen of randy moss is the one where the vikings are leading the pack during crunch time, and as the green bay offense is about to take the field for the decisive drive moss bolts from the bench and says "of course i wanna see this, its brett favre!" or something to that effect. it isn't a long clip/sound bite but those few seconds conveyed a lot about the admiration moss has for favre and what he can do.

if tt signs moss to join brett at lambeau, moss will want to play.

sign him.


How do you KNOW this? This is the same crap people said about TO going to Philly to play with McNabb and going to Dallas to play for Parcels and with Bledsoe. That didn't work out so well, did it?

If Moss had gone to Oakland and given it his all, every play, EVEN WHEN the team sucked and been a "team guy" I might buy this. He hasn't and I don't buy it.

He's still a "me first asshole" and always will be, regardless of what any of us think. He continues to prove it, over and over again with his on field antics captured by the TV crews, and his off field antics of refusing to take a phone call from the coach (his boss). MOSS HAS NOT CHANGED.

I don't think he wants to either. From my vantage point he is still the same selfish jerk he has always been.

I'm off my soap box now.

:wink:

i never said i knew he would, its a gut feeling. i'm saying take the chance on him.

[LL2]

If TT and MM go after him, they are total hipocrites in finding "Packer People"...cause he's not a "packer person"...which in MY opinion, is a high character person, which he's not. Randy Moss in wisconsin won't work. he will do something, and ruin whatever MM is starting to build.

I agree, but how many on the team are really "high character" people or are they just great team player types. Just because they don't make the news doesn't mean they have high character. I never thought of Corey Dillon as a high character person when he was in Cincy, but all the time with NE he's been a great team player. Moss could turn out to be a great team player because he wants to win. Winning changes everything.

[LL2]

If TT and MM go after him, they are total hipocrites in finding "Packer People"...cause he's not a "packer person"...which in MY opinion, is a high character person, which he's not. Randy Moss in wisconsin won't work. he will do something, and ruin whatever MM is starting to build.

I agree, but how many on the team are really "high character" people or are they just great team player types. Just because they don't make the news doesn't mean they have high character. I never thought of Corey Dillon as a high character person when he was in Cincy, but all the time with NE he's been a great team player. Moss could turn out to be a great team player because he wants to win. Winning changes everything.

[Joemailman]

If TT and MM go after him, they are total hipocrites in finding "Packer People"...cause he's not a "packer person"...which in MY opinion, is a high character person, which he's not. Randy Moss in wisconsin won't work. he will do something, and ruin whatever MM is starting to build.

I'm not sure that MM actually defined what he meant by "Packer People." If MM and TT could be convinced that Moss really wants to be a Packer, they might swing the deal. Having high character people like Favre, Driver and Kampman might be enough to keep him in line. He's not gonna scream on the sidelines at Brett Favre because he's not getting the ball enough. Cris Carter was his mentor in Minnesota, and Denny Green his coach. I think it's a very different situation here.

[SD GB fan]

lets face it, the term "packer person" is an image/vision of the packer organization, NOT a means of evaluating players. it is a good goal, but to overlook talent of potential players not on the roster is not practical. if TT and MM thinks that moss will behave better than they will take a shot at him because he would benefit the packers a lot on the field. to say that they will completely ignore the possibility of getting moss because of his character risk is foolish. no matter how "high character" a player is, in the NFL or any sports for that matter, it still comes down to money or fame.

[GrnBay007]

From NFL Fanhouse blogs....



With Favre Un-Retired, Green Bay Needs a Wideout
NFC North, NFL Rumors

Donte' Stallworth says he's willing to stay in Philadelphia even if he's offered more money elsewhere. We might see if he really means it because Green Bay could be interested in his services.

With Brett Favre un-retiring for a second straight off-season, the team can now move on to addressing other personnel needs. One of those needs is finding a competent compliment to Donald Driver. This year's free-agent wideout crop isn't especially deep (or talented), but Stallworth is the exception. Another, less attractive option, is Kevin Curtis, and if the Packers are looking for a taller, slower white dude, Drew Bennett could also be available.

If free agency doesn't work out, the draft is deep at wide receiver. The only problem is that rookie wideouts often struggle in their first professional season. And, as the very last resort, the Packers could trade for Randy Moss. Frankly, I think this is a great idea because every time Moss catches a touchdown pass, he can fake-moon the Green Bay fans and then pretend to use the goal post padding to ... uh, clean up.

[retailguy]

From NFL Fanhouse blogs....



With Favre Un-Retired, Green Bay Needs a Wideout
NFC North, NFL Rumors

Frankly, I think this is a great idea because every time Moss catches a touchdown pass, he can fake-moon the Green Bay fans and then pretend to use the goal post padding to ... uh, clean up.

Hmmm.... Yeah, .... great. :evil:

[Creepy]

Moss of 4 years ago is a different than the current Moss. He hasn't walked off the field beofre a game is over, has played hurt last season in Minnesota (who can forget the game against GB) and in Oakland. he is down and unhappy because he felt going to Oakland who has always thrown deep did nothing tio improve their QB situatation. They had Collins who has been overarted since he came into the league and a host of slop at QB. So randy was wasted in Oakland and may not have played as hard.

Now if GB signs him I thinkyou will see abetter Randy (at first). Should gB win and getth eball out to him it will be a grteat tandem. Having moss would be like having Walker back. Driver will get anywhere form 75 t0 90 passes and be single teamed more, with Favres eluseviness and getting out ofthe pocket Randy will haul in some long ones and with a healthy Jenkins as the tird GB would be ina great position at WR. Ifthey pick up a good receiving TE, then they havethe making of an unstoppable offense.

Even withthat said I really would not like to see Moss in GB. As Moss caught more passes and some TDs his attitude would retunr andthen the monster would be loose. in the long run he would be a bad signing. If GB were a receivier short of a SB, then I would sign him in a heartbeat.

[prsnfoto]

If TT and MM go after him, they are total hipocrites in finding "Packer People"...cause he's not a "packer person"...which in MY opinion, is a high character person, which he's not. Randy Moss in wisconsin won't work. he will do something, and ruin whatever MM is starting to build.

Neither were Rison.Cade,Lofton,Robinson,Chewy, or Brett Favre himself this Packer People crap is funny Anman Green and Gilbert Brown beat there women, Favre and Chewy were well known pill popping drunk players screwing girls on several UW campus' though it is morally wrong I find myself rooting for them every Sunday myself.

[rbaloha1]

Remember Charles Woodson? How did he fit in?

Plain and simple, Randy Moss respects Favre and knows his presence can assist Super Bowl efforts.

Moss needs to be signed ASAP and begin working out with Favre.

[retailguy]

Remember Charles Woodson? How did he fit in?

Plain and simple, Randy Moss respects Favre and knows his presence can assist Super Bowl efforts.

Moss needs to be signed ASAP and begin working out with Favre.

Plain and simple? NOTHING about this is "plain and simple".... Quite honestly, there is ZERO proof that Moss "respects" Favre and will "behave" because of it. There is AMPLE proof that the opposite is true.

While I concede that it is POSSIBLE that Moss will behave, I make a practice of refusing to "dance with the devil". Signing Moss is "dancing with the devil". More often than not, you lose when you decide to dance... and ole' Ted has "danced" twice (Robinson & Woodson). I wouldn't exactly call Woodson a "saint", although he had a great season. Signing Robinson prevented us from signing someone else who might have helped the whole season instead of a couple of weeks.

Using your logic, (which I wouldn't do), suggests that TT is either clairvoyant, or been lucky twice with no malcontents causing problems. In this case, the third time is NOT likely to be a charm.

From my perspective the fact that Woodson has behaved (although he missed ALL offseason stuff), doesn't indicate AT ALL that Moss will behave... but that's just me...

[prsnfoto]

Robinson was paid the league minimum for his years of service $30000+ per game once he was suspended we paid him nothing and filled his roster spot with someone else may have been Bodiford Koren was a no risk pick up and if he stays clean we still hold the rights to him. Moss has been relatively quiet in Oakland he has complained about not getting the ball which no one could in Oakland he has'nt had any run-ins with the law. He may have grown up some.

[AtlPackFan]

I agree. Besides that, I can see TT deviating from his plan to build through the draft and I can't see him giving up a 2nd or 3rd round draft pick either...especially as much as he seems to value those 2nd round and later picks.

[Packnut]

Remember Charles Woodson? How did he fit in?

Plain and simple, Randy Moss respects Favre and knows his presence can assist Super Bowl efforts.

Moss needs to be signed ASAP and begin working out with Favre.

Plain and simple? NOTHING about this is "plain and simple".... Quite honestly, there is ZERO proof that Moss "respects" Favre and will "behave" because of it. There is AMPLE proof that the opposite is true.

While I concede that it is POSSIBLE that Moss will behave, I make a practice of refusing to "dance with the devil". Signing Moss is "dancing with the devil". More often than not, you lose when you decide to dance... and ole' Ted has "danced" twice (Robinson & Woodson). I wouldn't exactly call Woodson a "saint", although he had a great season. Signing Robinson prevented us from signing someone else who might have helped the whole season instead of a couple of weeks.

Using your logic, (which I wouldn't do), suggests that TT is either clairvoyant, or been lucky twice with no malcontents causing problems. In this case, the third time is NOT likely to be a charm.

From my perspective the fact that Woodson has behaved (although he missed ALL offseason stuff), doesn't indicate AT ALL that Moss will behave... but that's just me...


Your opinion is valid and I can understand the "anti Moss" bias in this forum. Quite frankly, at first the picture in my head of Moss in the sacred green and gold made me sick. However, what is more sickening is the amount of arena type WR's that Favre has been forced to throw to over the last couple of years.

Desperate times call for desperate measures.............

[AtlPackFan]

Opps...didn't quote. :oops:



Bottom line -- he's not worth the risk, especially since it appears that he has lost a lot of the magic that he used to be able to display.

When he wanted to.


Anyway Woodbuck, I still agree.

[PackerPro42]

I understand that there is a large risk involved in Moss, but I also believe that there is no doubting that the guy has talent and he can help our team. There is also a tremendous amount of upside to this whole rumor. If this deal does go down , like I hope it does, the Packers need to restructure his contact on incentives that way there is no risk involved and if it works out we'll all be happy.

[HarveyWallbangers]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/9988414


For the sake of this discussion only, and with no intent to suggest the following players are even on the trading block, let's take a look at Raiders wide receivers Randy Moss and Jerry Porter. Oakland should have about $6 million of cap space if they stand pat with the roster. Moss is scheduled to count for $11.7 million on the 2007 cap. His salary is going to be $9.75 million and if he were traded, the Raiders would get back the $9.75 million of space minus any outstanding potential accelerations. Moss' accelerations are only $2 million, so the net of trading Moss for the Raiders would be a salary-cap gain of $7.7 million.

The question in this transaction will be more about the club who might have interest because they are not going to want to pay a $9.75 million salary and they may not want to spread his money out for an extended period of time. A team like the Packers, with $24 million of projected space, could absorb the contract. Compensation back to the Raiders is a whole other story, and at this point a first-round pick seems a little high to most GMs I talk with.

[mmmdk]

...about the mooning...the GB fans typically mooned the Vikings bus after games at Lambeau so Moss just gave some back. I never had any problem with either acts. Moss is strange alright but he's a huge talent and this league is about winning and so is Favre. Why not give Packers a fighting chance? TT likes his picks? Good, then don't waste'em on busts like Cory Rogers and a bunch guys already gone from the 2005 draft (Packers 2005 draft = what a waste). Moss could get injured but that's the name of the game but Moss has had NOBODIES throwing to him in Raiderland. Get Moss if you wanna go get the the trophy or at least a fighting chance. I'm tired of NFL-Europe players on my Packers roster.

[the_idle_threat]

...about the mooning...the GB fans typically mooned the Vikings bus after games at Lambeau so Moss just gave some back. I never had any problem with either acts. Moss is strange alright but he's a huge talent and this league is about winning and so is Favre. Why not give Packers a fighting chance? TT likes his picks? Good, then don't waste'em on busts like Cory Rogers and a bunch guys already gone from the 2005 draft (Packers 2005 draft = what a waste). Moss could get injured but that's the name of the game but Moss has had NOBODIES throwing to him in Raiderland. Get Moss if you wanna go get the the trophy or at least a fighting chance. I'm tired of NFL-Europe players on my Packers roster.

I agree ... screw Europe! :P :P :P

[retailguy]

Robinson was paid the league minimum for his years of service $30000+ per game once he was suspended we paid him nothing and filled his roster spot with someone else may have been Bodiford Koren was a no risk pick up and if he stays clean we still hold the rights to him. Moss has been relatively quiet in Oakland he has complained about not getting the ball which no one could in Oakland he has'nt had any run-ins with the law. He may have grown up some.

I don't have the problem with the $'s they paid Robinson, it was the ROSTER SPOT. I forget who it was, but there was a decent receiver on the street at the time who would have been available for the whole season. That's the real loss.

Remember - ONE more victory meant playoffs. There were several games in the middle of the season where all the receivers were banged up. Where was Robinson? suspended. Wish I could remember the guys name who was available. I remember more than one person around here grousing about it at the time.

[red]

Robinson was paid the league minimum for his years of service $30000+ per game once he was suspended we paid him nothing and filled his roster spot with someone else may have been Bodiford Koren was a no risk pick up and if he stays clean we still hold the rights to him. Moss has been relatively quiet in Oakland he has complained about not getting the ball which no one could in Oakland he has'nt had any run-ins with the law. He may have grown up some.

I don't have the problem with the $'s they paid Robinson, it was the ROSTER SPOT. I forget who it was, but there was a decent receiver on the street at the time who would have been available for the whole season. That's the real loss.

Remember - ONE more victory meant playoffs. There were several games in the middle of the season where all the receivers were banged up. Where was Robinson? suspended. Wish I could remember the guys name who was available. I remember more than one person around here grousing about it at the time.

are you thinking of charles rodgers, or david boston?

i know we talked a lot of those two on here

[retailguy]

Robinson was paid the league minimum for his years of service $30000+ per game once he was suspended we paid him nothing and filled his roster spot with someone else may have been Bodiford Koren was a no risk pick up and if he stays clean we still hold the rights to him. Moss has been relatively quiet in Oakland he has complained about not getting the ball which no one could in Oakland he has'nt had any run-ins with the law. He may have grown up some.

I don't have the problem with the $'s they paid Robinson, it was the ROSTER SPOT. I forget who it was, but there was a decent receiver on the street at the time who would have been available for the whole season. That's the real loss.

Remember - ONE more victory meant playoffs. There were several games in the middle of the season where all the receivers were banged up. Where was Robinson? suspended. Wish I could remember the guys name who was available. I remember more than one person around here grousing about it at the time.

are you thinking of charles rodgers, or david boston?

i know we talked a lot of those two on here


No, someone who had experience with the WCO as I recall. Not a superstar, but adequate. I didn't suggest picking up Rogers at all, and didn't pay much attention to those who did. Patler?? :oops: Who was it? We all know that you know... :wink:

[red]

Joe Jurevicius?

[motife]

Joe Arrigo :

"The Jags have a MAJOR interest in Randy Moss (Jack Del Rio was a coach in Minnesota when Moss was a Viking) and seem to be poised to make a move for him, by possibly giving up there 2nd round pick. I also have heard that they would consider giving up there 1st this season for him.

The Vikings has no interest in bringing Randy Moss back.

The Packers seem to have cooled off a little on the Randy Moss deal for a couple of reasons. (1.) Al Davis is trying to mend the rift between him and the team (2.) Al Davis wants equal value (as of today) from any team wanting Moss (which means a 2nd or a 1st) and (3.) The Packers are starting to think a WR in this draft could have just as much as an impact THIS SEASON and down the road for a cheaper price."

[green_bowl_packer]

Doug Gabriel from NE got cut half way through the season as KRob got suspended. Jabar Gaffney got picked up to replace Gabriel, I think he was out there. Marcus Robinson didn't get cut from the Vikings until the last week of the season. Any of those ring a bell?

[Patler]

No, someone who had experience with the WCO as I recall. Not a superstar, but adequate. I didn't suggest picking up Rogers at all, and didn't pay much attention to those who did. Patler?? :oops: Who was it? We all know that you know... :wink:

Actually, I don't know. At the time they signed Robinson, in my opinion all that was out there was a bunch of washed up, has beens. Nobody that interested me at all, so I have kind of forgotten about it.

I think there was someone who was injured, not yet cleared to play when Robinson was signed, cleared medically while Robison was in GB, and signed just a few days before the suspension came down. People complained about him, but if you look at the time line it just didn't work for the Packers.

The Packers needed some immediate help in KO returns, and at week 2 Robinson was about the best available.

[red]

that all kind of rings a bell patler, but no names are jumping into my brain right now

was that the kick returner, that maybe ended up with seattle?

[the_idle_threat]

No, someone who had experience with the WCO as I recall. Not a superstar, but adequate. I didn't suggest picking up Rogers at all, and didn't pay much attention to those who did. Patler?? :oops: Who was it? We all know that you know... :wink:

Actually, I don't know. At the time they signed Robinson, in my opinion all that was out there was a bunch of washed up, has beens. Nobody that interested me at all, so I have kind of forgotten about it.

I think there was someone who was injured, not yet cleared to play when Robinson was signed, cleared medically while Robison was in GB, and signed just a few days before the suspension came down. People complained about him, but if you look at the time line it just didn't work for the Packers.

The Packers needed some immediate help in KO returns, and at week 2 Robinson was about the best available.

The guy was Willie Ponder, a young WR who had just missed the final cut of the New York Giants. Our big need at the time was kick returner, and Ponder had been #1 in the NFL in Kick Return Average in 2004, and was 6th overall in that category in 2005. He was sitting on the street when we went for K-Rob. I knew about him because I had played in Fantasy Football leagues that allowed points for kick return yards, and this guy was a beast. Many of you might recall that I was no fan of the K-Rob signing, and this was one of the many reasons. I do recall saying something about it at the time.

The other guy that Patler is referring to (I think) is Bethel Johnson, who started out the year as an injured street FA, and then signed with Minnesota part way through the year and looked good against the Packers. After he looked good in that game, there was some grumbling around here about why TT didn't pick him up before the 'queens got him.

[the_idle_threat]

Ponder was signed by Seattle, and then was released after the Branch trade. After that point, it looks like Seattle had WR overlaod and had Burleson returning kicks.

St Louis promptly snagged Ponder and he finished the year with them.

[MJZiggy]

And how did he do with them?

[PackerBlues]

Years ago when Moss first began with the Vikings, I was sitting in a bar in Draper Wisconsin watchin the Packer game during deer hunting season. Shortly after watchin the Vikings take the lead with a long bomb to Moss, the Packers responded by scoring quickly themselves. I bought the entire bar a round of drinks. I was sure that Favre and the Pack could easily Counter Moss.......and yet, the rest of the game seemed to be nothing but Moss catchin long bombs for touchdowns. The only good thing to happen that day was everyone in the bar returnin the favor and buying me a drink after the game.
I would love to see Moss in a GB Packer uniform. I have no doubt that he could renew his career in GB. I think it would even make Favre want to stay an extra year or two more. (whether thats a good thing or not, time will tell)
The reason I dont think it would happen, is what its going to cost to get him. I just think there are going to be more teams than you think interested in him, and one of em is bound to be willing to offer more than what the Packers will.

[red]

Ponder was signed by Seattle, and then was released after the Branch trade. After that point, it looks like Seattle had WR overlaod and had Burleson returning kicks.

St Louis promptly snagged Ponder and he finished the year with them.

thats it. at least thats who i think he thinks he's thinking about

he had 25 returns for seattle and 26 for seattle, and averaged just over 23 yards per return. no td's, long of 41

as a wr he had zero catches for zero yards and 11 td's

oh wait, zero td's

[the_idle_threat]

And how did he do with them?

According to the year-end stats at nfl.com, Ponder returned 25 kicks for a 23.5 yard avg. for Seattle.

Then he returned 26 more for a 23.3 yard avg. for St. Louis.

His overall avg. of 23.4 put him in a tie for 20th place in the NFL with none other than Bethel Johnson of Minnesota.

Not a spectacular year by any means, but it was a better showing than we saw on the Packers.

According to this (http://www.packers.com/team/stats/2006/2006week17.pdf) end-of-year stat compilation at packers.com, Vernand Morency led the team with a 21.6 yard avg. in 31 returns. K-Rob averaged 21.1 yards. The team kickoff return avg. was a sad 19.7 yds.

[HarveyWallbangers]

The better question is how would he have done on the Packers. I'd suggest probably not much better than Morency. I actually like Morency is a return man. I think our blocking on returns is the bigger issue.

[retailguy]

No, someone who had experience with the WCO as I recall. Not a superstar, but adequate. I didn't suggest picking up Rogers at all, and didn't pay much attention to those who did. Patler?? :oops: Who was it? We all know that you know... :wink:

Actually, I don't know. At the time they signed Robinson, in my opinion all that was out there was a bunch of washed up, has beens. Nobody that interested me at all, so I have kind of forgotten about it.

I think there was someone who was injured, not yet cleared to play when Robinson was signed, cleared medically while Robison was in GB, and signed just a few days before the suspension came down. People complained about him, but if you look at the time line it just didn't work for the Packers.

The Packers needed some immediate help in KO returns, and at week 2 Robinson was about the best available.

The guy was Willie Ponder, a young WR who had just missed the final cut of the New York Giants. Our big need at the time was kick returner, and Ponder had been #1 in the NFL in Kick Return Average in 2004, and was 6th overall in that category in 2005. He was sitting on the street when we went for K-Rob. I knew about him because I had played in Fantasy Football leagues that allowed points for kick return yards, and this guy was a beast. Many of you might recall that I was no fan of the K-Rob signing, and this was one of the many reasons. I do recall saying something about it at the time.

The other guy that Patler is referring to (I think) is Bethel Johnson, who started out the year as an injured street FA, and then signed with Minnesota part way through the year and looked good against the Packers. After he looked good in that game, there was some grumbling around here about why TT didn't pick him up before the 'queens got him.

I think that was who I was thinking of. I don't think it was Bethel Johnson either, however, considering he wasn't healthy that wouldn't have helped. My perspective is that Ponder would have helped the team more than Krob for the simple fact he was healthy and not in danger of being suspended.

The new guys that Thompson picked up did fine at the end of the season, but not much in the middle. Had they picked up Ponder, he might have had enough time to be somewhat effective in the middle of the year... More effective than Krob wouldn't have been difficult, and hell, the guy that lives under the rock knew Krob was ripe for being suspended quickly....

On that basis, I disagree with the opinion that the Krob signing presented no/little risk. The risk was not having an adequate healthy WR when we needed one, and THAT happened. One more victory.... PLAYOFFS.

[Patler]

The other guy that Patler is referring to (I think) is Bethel Johnson, who started out the year as an injured street FA, and then signed with Minnesota part way through the year and looked good against the Packers. After he looked good in that game, there was some grumbling around here about why TT didn't pick him up before the 'queens got him.

You hit it. Bethel Johnson was the guy I was thinking of who was still injured when Robinson was signed by GB, so wasn't really an option even though some complained about it at the time.

[Patler]

I don't like guys like Ponder. He returns kickoffs, and nothing more. He does not return punts. He hasn't caught a pass since 2004, when he had 1 for 3 yards. He is way too much of a specialist. If you are set on offense and defense, but have a glaring weakness on kick returns he might be your guy. The last piece to a strong playoff run.

[woodbuck27]

My 2 cents worth.

As I see it. Any chance to get Randy Moss in Green Bay next season for a third and a player ? has to be seriously considered.

NO !!! Get that done.

The reality of this prospect will most likely be. A team offering more than that 3rd to Al Davis. That will trump Ted Thompson, as I doubt that he would go that high given the value he places in the draft.

My conclusion is that it's not likely we will see Randy Moss catching Brett Favre pass's.

[woodbuck27]

http://www.packersnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070207/PKR07/702070558/1989

Posted February 7, 2007

Mike Vandermause column: Moss could make fans forgive, forget


By Mike Vandermause

The vision of Randy Moss pretending to moon Green Bay Packers fans at Lambeau Field during a Minnesota Vikings' playoff victory two years ago is hard to forget.

That's why reaction to rumors that Moss could be traded to the Packers has been decidedly mixed.

Moss is a five-time Pro Bowl wide receiver capable of filling the offensive playmaker role the Packers desperately need. But with his extraordinary skill comes potential baggage, which is something the Packers must ponder long and hard.

At first glance, the thought of Moss wearing a Packers' uniform seems far-fetched. His demeanor and attitude don't appear to be a good fit in Green Bay.

But stranger things have happened. Who would have predicted in 1996 that often-misunderstood receiver Andre Rison would become an integral part of the Packers' team that marched to a Super Bowl title?

During his short tenure here, Rison had no trouble fitting into a small-town environment. Winning tends to dissolve problems and shrink egos.

Who's to say Moss couldn't come to Green Bay and become the bona fide deep threat Brett Favre has been longing for? Moss would be a perfect complement to Pro Bowl receiver Donald Driver. Moss and Driver would form the most dynamic receiving tandem Favre has seen, and opposing defenses would be tested severely.

Favre and Moss at one time had the same agent, Bus Cook. The players reportedly share a mutual respect. There can be no doubt Favre would love the opportunity to throw to Moss.


For that to become a reality, numerous obstacles must be cleared.


It's no secret Moss' team, the Oakland Raiders, have been shopping him. Moss had a forgettable two-year stint in Oakland. With no decent quarterback to throw him the ball and playing on an abysmal 2-14 club,

Moss caught just 42 passes for 553 yards last year.


Some say he quit on his team. Others suggest the Raiders quit on him.


His less-than-stellar 2006 season has made Moss both available and affordable. The Raiders gave up a first-round draft pick (No. 7 overall), seventh-round pick and linebacker Napoleon Harris for Moss in March 2005.

The asking price should be much less this time.

The best guess is it would take a second-round draft pick to get Moss, who will turn 30 next week.

Packers General Manager Ted Thompson made it clear he made no promises to Favre about bolstering the offense. Thompson and coach Mike McCarthy are adamant that no player — even Favre — will dictate how they rebuild the team.

Thompson would rather stockpile draft picks than give them away, which makes a trade less likely.


There also is Moss' 2007 base salary of more than $9 million to consider. The Packers have enough room under the salary cap and could restructure the terms of the deal, but the sometimes-temperamental Moss wouldn't come cheap.

However, it's rare when a special player like Moss is available.

Assuming the trade terms are reasonable, the Packers should take a risk on a legitimate difference-maker.

Fans will have to forgive Moss for his past antics. But that's a small price to pay to acquire someone who can ignite the offense and elevate the Packers into a contending team.

Mike Vandermause is sports editor of the Press-Gazette

[woodbuck27]

http://www.journaltimes.com/nucleus/index.php?itemid=10764

02/08/2007: Moss would be Thompson's kind of guy

Category: General Posted by: Gery
BY GERY WOELFEL

The rumors have been circulating for a month or so: The Packers are interested in acquiring Randy Moss from the Oakland Raiders.

Now, if Moss was being linked to the New England Patriots or the Indianapolis Colts or some other teams, I'd say it was a certifiable rumor because those teams don't waste their times with players who carry as much baggage as Moss.

But we're talking about the Packers here, and we're specifically talking about their general manager Ted Thompson. Thompson has been around only two years, but he's already shown he doesn't put a lot of stock in character.

Case in point: Koren Robinson. Not one other team except the Packers made a concerted effort to sign the chronically-troubled Robinson. Robinson is now, shockingly, out of football, serving a suspension.

Moss has been bad news even before he entered the NFL. On the day Moss was drafted late in the first round by the Minnesota Vikings - after the Packers passed on him -- I had a lengthy conversation with then Packers GM Ron Wolf. I asked Wolf after the first day of the draft whether he would have taken Moss under any circumstance.

He answered with one word "No.''

Well, Moss went on to have some stellar seasons with the Vikings but his act was so pathetic the Vikings jettisoned him to the Raiders. With the Raiders, Moss has been nothing but a highly-overpaid, underachieving malcontent.

If Thompson was smart - and that's open to debate after his horrendous decision to sign Robinson -- he'd do precisely what Wolf did on that draft day and stay away from Moss.

[mmmdk]

...about the mooning...the GB fans typically mooned the Vikings bus after games at Lambeau so Moss just gave some back. I never had any problem with either acts. Moss is strange alright but he's a huge talent and this league is about winning and so is Favre. Why not give Packers a fighting chance? TT likes his picks? Good, then don't waste'em on busts like Cory Rogers and a bunch guys already gone from the 2005 draft (Packers 2005 draft = what a waste). Moss could get injured but that's the name of the game but Moss has had NOBODIES throwing to him in Raiderland. Get Moss if you wanna go get the the trophy or at least a fighting chance. I'm tired of NFL-Europe players on my Packers roster.

I agree ... screw Europe! :P :P :P

Sorry for my lateness but this was actually quite funny.

[retailguy]

Thompson has been around only two years, but he's already shown he doesn't put a lot of stock in character.

Case in point: Koren Robinson. Not one other team except the Packers made a concerted effort to sign the chronically-troubled Robinson. Robinson is now, shockingly, out of football, serving a suspension.


Anyone else find this quote troubling? 'Cept for the fans in Cincy?

[Zool]

Ugg, not this again. Robinson was an extremely low risk signing. The man has a problem with alcohol and decision making. He's not trafficking drugs (Jamal Lewis) or stabbing people outside a party (Ray Lewis). He drinks and then gets stupid. Anyone here ever drink and drive?

[gureski]

For what it's worth, I wanted to chime in before anything happens so I can be on record as having the following position:

From my own perspective, I wouldn't have a problem with Moss being on the Packers. For the price of a third and a WR other then Driver and Jennings.....it's a go. Any more then that and forget it. It's worth the risk at the price of a third and I think Moss could help the Packers win.

Now, on to the hard part for me....

Since I have been on record as saying Moss isn't as bad as he's portrayed (going back to the JS online days) it's not an about face for me personally to take the position that I take . I think the media plays up his bad-boy image more then he earns it. There were however alot of Packer fans that roasted Moss repeatedly over his career and have just spewed hatred about him as recently as last year. As a Packer fan, I would have to say that I almost hope the Packers don't acquire Moss because it would be an embarassment for Packer fans to have to have the National image of being bandwagon type's that hated Moss until we had a chance to have him. We'd be looked upon as sell-outs.

I'd say that 95% of Packer fans would have to do a full about-face in order to support and cheer for Randy Moss. That will get noticed on a National level and Packer fans will be fair game for all the writers and reporters who have been just itching to take shots at the image of the Packer fans for years.

For as much as Moss would bring to the team on the field and as much fans would love the wins.....we'd lose more in the area of reputation then we'd gain in wins and losses. That's too big a price to pay. That reputation was earned by generations before us and through hard losing seasons. I don't want to lessen the image of Packer fans being class acts just to get a few wins. My official position, because so many Packer fans hated Moss prior to now, is that I hope we don't get him.

[Fritz]

Here's an issue nobody's talked much about regarding Moss: what'll happen with him after Favre leaves? Mike Vandermeuse points out that Moss is notorious for chewing up young QB's - if you trade for Moss you're trading for a one or two year, ver expensive player, who, when Favre leaves, will be an aging, expensive receiver known for creating havoc with a team. With no Favre around to keep Moss in line, he becomes an expensive cancer.

No thanks to Moss, I think, unless you truly believe he'll be the piece that gets you not to the playoffs but to the SB. I don't.

[red]

we wear big giant chunks of foam cheese on our heads

i think we lost the respect of everyone a long time ago

[gureski]

It's Cheddar though, not limburger. Right now, it doesn't stink to wear one.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Here's an issue nobody's talked much about regarding Moss: what'll happen with him after Favre leaves? Mike Vandermeuse points out that Moss is notorious for chewing up young QB's - if you trade for Moss you're trading for a one or two year, ver expensive player, who, when Favre leaves, will be an aging, expensive receiver known for creating havoc with a team. With no Favre around to keep Moss in line, he becomes an expensive cancer.

No thanks to Moss, I think, unless you truly believe he'll be the piece that gets you not to the playoffs but to the SB. I don't.

You get two good years from him, and then you cut him. I don't think Moss has more than about 2 good years left. At this point I'm not sure we can be 100% sure Rodgers is going to be the guy anyways. It's possible the Favre plays two more years, Rodgers is a FA, and the Packers will have drafted another guy or signed a FA in that time.

[red]

this one seems to be dying fast, and i'm not sure why

so i read everywhere that the asking price has gone up to a second rounder or even a first

so what?

this isn't a market where the raiders get to dictate anything. as far as i've seen we're the only ones with any real interest in him. they get what we offer

they can't keep him, even if he was a pro bowl model player, theres noway they should keep him at his currnt cap number of almost 12.

they have to get rid of him. they can either trade him and get what they can, or cut him

al davis has completely lost it if he thinks theres anyway he could keep moss on that team. you'd be paying moss 12 million to sit on his ass and do nothing, because he will continue to not care and not try in that setting

IMO, you put a third rounder on the table, and wait out the raiders. they can either take it, or take nothing and pay 12 million for nothing

[K-town]

One of the most entertaining parts of my week is doing my chat for ESPN.com's SportsNation. I thought it would be fun to address in detail a couple of the queries I received in last week's chat.


Moss Feeling Green
Rick Gureski from Milwaukee, Wis., wanted to know, "Based on what you are seeing on film, does Randy Moss still have talent or is he done? Could pairing Moss with an arm like [Brett] Favre resurrect his career?"
Favre has been fairly vocal about his desire to see Moss in Green Bay. A quick look at the numbers makes it easy to see why. Favre's passer rating on deep passes (21-plus yards downfield) was a paltry 40.8 last season.

Moss would seem like the perfect solution. Unfortunately, over the past three seasons he has gone from one of the best deep threats in the NFL to one of the worst. To illustrate this point, take a look at Moss' deep pass metrics over the past three seasons (with the 2004 season including his playoff numbers):

Randy Moss
Year Att Comp Yds TD INT Pen P-Yds YPA
2004 35 9 368 6 2 4 111 13.7
2005 36 11 429 7 1 1 34 12.9
2006 28 4 137 2 4 1 5 5.1


It's not just Moss' overall production that is down. His specialty routes used to be the go and fade routes, in which Daunte Culpepper would throw the ball near Moss and let him outjump the defender. Take a look at his production levels on these routes over the past three years:

Randy Moss-2
Year Att Comp Yds TD INT Pen P-Yds YPA
2004 20 7 240 5 0 2 38 13.9
2005 14 3 181 3 1 0 0 12.9
2006 12 1 51 0 1 1 5 4.7


These numbers are nearly identical to his overall numbers, so Moss isn't even producing on his trademark play.

There is one possible glimmer of hope. Moss dropped six deep passes this year and would have gained at least 165 yards on those passes (the yardage being based on how far downfield the ball was dropped).

If the drops were due to a lack of effort on Moss' part, based on his unhappiness with the situation in Oakland, his numbers could rebound to respectable levels with a move to Green Bay. If he doesn't resolve the issue, however, he could actually end up hurting the Green Bay offense.


Bill of Goods?
Mike from Lackawanna, N.Y., asked, "Do you think Nate Clements will land with his hometown team -- the Cleveland Browns?"
I don't think Clements will land in Cleveland if only because the issues in the secondary last year had more to do with injuries. Leigh Bodden, Daven Holly, Brodney Pool and Sean Jones give Cleveland a very solid nucleus of young defensive backs, so there are more pressing personnel needs for Romeo Crennel and Phil Savage to address.

Even if the Browns were to decide to pursue Clements, they should not break the bank for him. His performance the past four years has been quite inconsistent.

Clements posted dominant yards per attempt (YPA) numbers in 2004 (5.7) and 2006 (6.1). Conversely, his numbers were decidedly mediocre in 2003 (7.3) and 2005 (8.8). His 2003 season was actually even worse than the numbers would indicate, as he benefited from a lot of dropped and inaccurate passes.

He simply has not displayed the type of consistency that would be expected from one of the biggest names in the free-agent market this year.

KC Joyner, aka The Football Scientist, is a regular contributor to ESPN Insider. His latest release, Scientific Football 2007, is now available for a special pre-order price at his Web site.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Rick Gureski from Milwaukee, Wis., wanted to know, "Based on what you are seeing on film, does Randy Moss still have talent or is he done? Could pairing Moss with an arm like [Brett] Favre resurrect his career?"

Our Gureski?

Honestly, can he be properly evaluated based off last year. Who knows how catchable the balls he was thrown were. I wonder how the other Oakland WRs did on deep balls.

[red]

this ones dying fast

pft is saying that the jags are now hot after moss (tice is a coach there), and might be willing to involve leftwich in a trade for him

[Zool]

Jags just named Leftwich starter for the upcoming season.

Gotta love internet rumor mills.

[red]

Jags just named Leftwich starter for the upcoming season.

Gotta love internet rumor mills.

pft covered that too

yesterday leftwich was on his way out with the jags. they were done with him. and now out of nowhere and really for no reason they decide to anounce to the world that he's their starter

florio seems to think its just to jack up the trade value for byron. a guy you're about to cut has no trade value. but your starting qb sounds sexy, and has a lot more value

[Brando19]

This was on foxsports.com today:
Latest rumor is that ex-Vikings wideout Randy Moss will be reunited with ex-coach Mike Tice in Jacksonville.

[Spaulding]

So does this potentially mean Leftwich and a draft pick for Moss which then frees up the Raiders to pick CJ or Joe Thomas?

[Brando19]

So does this potentially mean Leftwich and a draft pick for Moss which then frees up the Raiders to pick CJ or Joe Thomas?

Interesting.

[BooHoo]

Doesn't Moss have a huge salary cap hit? A team would have to eat a large cap number just to get him on the field to loaf.

[red]

i think moss has around 4 million left on his signing bonus, or none, i'm not sure

either way his cap number this year is around 12 million

so the raiders would save about 8 million if they trade him

and its the team he's currently under, that takes the cap hit. the new team would just pay his salary, which is still like 9.5 million, but you can rework the deal to get it lower

[BooHoo]

9.5 mil is still a boat load of money.

[swede]

A new story on JSO puts Green Bay in the mix with Jacksonville and the Patriots for Moss' services.

TO is way more of a circus off the field, but Randy can be such a dink on the field that he is way, way too much of a risk.

I don't think he's coming here.

Reuniting with Tice at Jacksonville seems more likely.

[CaptainKickass]

Now how come everyone went over to the thread:

MOSS RUMOR - NEW! BREAKING NEWS!!!!


????

This was a perfectly good thread of the exact same subject- no?

damn ADD anyway