Combine

[Partial]

Am I smoking crack or was the combine last weekend?

[Freak Out]

You were smoking something.......

[Freak Out]

Please share next time.

[Partial]

Is it this weekend, then?

[LaFours]

Am I smoking crack or was the combine last weekend?

I know how you feel. It can be tough to remember what you were doing when crack is involved. The combine was definitely last weekend.

[Freak Out]

...it starts Thursday.

[Partial]

Am I smoking crack or was the combine last weekend?

I know how you feel. It can be tough to remember what you were doing when crack is involved. The combine was definitely last weekend.

I've got the good stuff. Snoochie Noochies.

[LaFours]

Am I smoking crack or was the combine last weekend?

I know how you feel. It can be tough to remember what you were doing when crack is involved. The combine was definitely last weekend.

I've got the good stuff. Snoochie Noochies.

Nooge...

[gbgary]

checked out the other combine threads and thought this one would be the best one to bump.

as i've mentioned before i pay no attention to college football. i did click over to the combine today and saw this guy robert turbin. the body on this guy is impressive and his arms are huge. he impressed the scouts and his college numbers seem good too...1500+ rushing and 800+ receiving as a junior. if tt was thinking rb sometime this guy might be worth a look...

robert turbin (http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?prospect_id=3086)

[Lurker64]

checked out the other combine threads and thought this one would be the best one to bump.

as i've mentioned before i pay no attention to college football. i did click over to the combine today and saw this guy robert turbin. the body on this guy is impressive and his arms are huge. he impressed the scouts and his college numbers seem good too...1500+ rushing and 800+ receiving as a junior. if tt was thinking rb sometime this guy might be worth a look...

robert turbin (http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?prospect_id=3086)

The real question is how the medical checks out with his knee. He missed all of 2010 with a gnarly knee injury, and the state of that joint will be of great interest to NFL teams but they don't release the results of the physicals to the media (which is why ESPN was so surprised when Bowers fell out of the first round entirely, after being considered a top 5 guy.)

If the medial checks out, you probably have a positive mid-round grade on him, but he's 5'9 5/8" and Ted Thompson has never drafted a player that short (though he did draft 5'9 7/8" Brandon Jackson).

[Upnorth]

Bad knee, well based of recent injury history he would fit right in.

[Lurker64]

Bad knee, well based of recent injury history he would fit right in.

It may just be an issue of Turbin won't even be on TT's board because he has a height requirement, and Turbin is too far below it to be willing to bend the rules. The only player he's ever drafted at any position (in Green Bay or Seattle) who was shorter than 5'10" was Brandon Jackson, and he was an eighth of an inch short. That's not likely to be an accident.

[smuggler]

RB is one position where a midget won't necessarily hurt you. besides, Turbin is only a half inch shorter than Jackson. I'm 6'2" but I have a long neck. If I had a normal sized neck, it'd cost me about an inch.

People have different bodies. Maybe Turbin has no neck. =J

[Kiwon]

RG III had a great day. Well-spoken guy as well.

Rams are sitting pretty with the #2 pick whether they choose there or trade down.

[packrulz]

I'm wondering how far Jenkins will drop, and would TT even consider drafting him? Personally, I think GB would be a good place for him, Woodson and Driver would be good mentors, and in a small city he could stay out of trouble. Pot is legal in some states, Moss and Sapp smoked, so I don't think it should drop him out of the first round. Besides, first round picks don't get paid as much as they used to.

Janoris Jenkins answers all character questions

Posted on: February 26, 2012 12:48 pm
Edited on: February 26, 2012 12:49 pm
Jenkins' character will be scrutinized.(Getty Images) By Will Brinson

INDIANAPOLIS -- When the announcement that Janoris Jenkins would speak to the press came over the loudspeaker at the NFL combine, media members members moved faster than they do for the sandwich cart. And Jenkins, a character-issue-ridden cornerback who was booted from Florida and finished his college career at North Alabama, didn't disappoint.

The defensive back, considered one of the top talents in the draft, was asked about his marijuana use, his children (he has four of them), his time at Florida, and the slew of red flags that accompany his draft status. To his credit, he was -- almost to a fault -- honest, he answered every question sincerely, and he didn't pull an Antonio Cromartie and forget his kids names.

"Janoris Jenkins Jr., Legend, Janorion and Paris," Jenkins said when someone asked him what his childrens' names were.

Jenkins was dismissed from Florida after being arrested for marijuana possession and signed on with North Alabama. The experience hurt his draft stock, but he repeatedly said it's been a tremendous learning experience and that he's "done" with marijuana.

"I'm done with it forever," Jenkins said. "I can't do it, man."

Jenkins also said the last time he used marijuana was when he was arrested and kicked off the team at Florida. And Jenkins said that he's been arrested three times, twice for marijuana and once for a bar fight. Jenkins said that he failed only one drug test at Florida.

It's going to be fascinating to see what happens with Jenkins leading up to the draft in April. He's an incredible talent, who hung with the best receivers in the SEC before transferring to North Alabama, where he says he wasn't challenged enough.

But he has big-time character issues. That he's willing to stand up on a podium and speak openly and honestly about those issues is impressive and could go a long way with teams interested in improving their secondary.

For more NFL news, rumors and analysis, follow @EyeOnNFL on Twitter, Like Us on Facebook, subscribe to our NFL newsletter, and while you're add it, add our RSS Feed.

Here's another guy that might still be there when TT picks in the 2nd round, character issues but you can't deny he has good speed and hits like a truck:

02/23/2012 - NFL DRAFT SCOUT PRE-COMBINE TOP 64: 55. *Ronnell Lewis, OLB, Oklahoma, 6-2, 244, 2...Nicknamed "The Hammer" by teammates for the way he hits, but coaches could never find the right nail for this unusually gifted athlete. After playing only eight-man football in high school, Oklahoma coaches knew they had an unusually gifted, raw talent but never figured out where to best use his abilities. He played most of the front seven positions like a wild animal chasing his last meal, especially when in pursuit of a quarterback. College coaches say he is a good kid, willing to learn but he has maturity issues and struggled with class work. Lewis was suspended at the end of last season for academic reasons and his coaches suggested he turn pro. Along with persistent back problems, Lewis had minor knee surgery in 2010 that put him out of two games and a neck injury in the 2011 Fiesta Bowl that caused him to lose feeling in his arms for a short time. But in a little more than two seasons, he totaled 118 tackles (67 solo), 20.5 for a loss, 10 sacks and two interceptions. He is expected to further complicate evaluations by being a workout wonder at the Combine. - Frank Cooney - The Sports Xchange, NFL Draft Scout

[Joemailman]

TT doesn't take character risks in the early rounds of the draft. He'd have to really be convinced that Jenkins is a different person than the one who played at Alabama. I doubt he'll have a 1st round grade on the guy.

[gbgary]

I have a long neck.

so you're the mertin hanks of this rat nest?

[SkinBasket]

CAM JOHNSON DE, Virginia looks nice to me. Then again, this is the first time I've ever seen any of this combine bullshit.

Ingram looks like a black midget out of pads, but man does he move nice.

[Lurker64]

Depending on the medical on his knee, I'm ecstatic to take Chandler Jones in the second.

At least his older brother is a badass...

http://fuckthesystemwriting.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/jon-bones-jones.gif

[smuggler]

I have seen Ronnell from Oklahoma going off the boad before our 1st rounder in many mocks. He seems pretty solid, though. No complaint there.

[packrulz]

Below average safety crop exposed running 40s
With Alabama's Mark Barron the only player at his position considered by most talent evaluators to be worthy of first round consideration, it isn't news that the 2012 draft offers only a mediocre crop of safety prospects.

The timing couldn't be much worse for NFL teams needing help at the position as the 2011 season was characterized by the emergence of several tight ends as legitimate downfield threats and the continued expansion of three and four receiver spread attacks. To combat the aerial onslaught, defenses are looking for big, athletic safeties.

The safeties were the final prospects to run the 40-yard dash at the Scouting Combine but with only a few exceptions they weren't able to reward scouts for their patience. In fact, of the 21 safeties invited to the Combine this year, zero recorded a time under 4.50 seconds. Worse, of the strong and free safeties given a top 125 grade by NFLDraftScout.com prior to the Combine, only Notre Dame's Harrison Smith (4.57) recorded a time under 4.66.

South Carolina State's Christian Thompson just missed the mark, clocking in at exactly 4.50 according to the "official" times released by the NFL. And while the fast time certainly helps legitimize Thompson's athleticism, considering his low level of competition and inconsistent play over his career, frankly he may have needed the workout if he is to generate anything more than mid to late Day Three consideration.

Similarly, scouts expected to see Vanderbilt's Sean Richardson work out well and he did -- enjoying the best all-around performance of any safety with a 4.52 time in the 40-yard dash, as well as demonstrating power (22 repetitions of 225 pounds) and explosiveness (38.5" vertical, 128" broad jump) but the concerns about him are about his agility, instincts and ball-skills. Richardson had just one interception in 49 career games, including 31 consecutive starts to finish his career.

Barron was unable to work out due to his recovery from hernia surgery performed after the season. Teams looking for immediate safety help may have to either reach to take him or hope one of the bigger, more instinctive and physical cornerbacks of the 2012 class can make the adjustment to safety as an NFL rookie.

Somewhere Rob Gronkowski, Jimmy Graham and a host of other receiving specialist tight ends are smiling...
Is it just me or is there an awful lot of slow 40 times this year?
Top CBs fail to close gap on Claiborne

NFLDraftScout.com has four strong cornerback prospects rated as potential first-round picks, and LSU's Morris Claiborne remains at the top of the position as none of the elite prospects particularly stood out during testing drills at the Scouting Combine on Tuesday.

North Alabama's Janoris Jenkins is hovering around the top 10, and ran an impressive 4.46-second 40-yard dash, compared to Claiborne's 4.50. Alabama's 'Dre Kirkpatrick posted a 4.51, while Nebraska's Alfonzo Dennard ran a 4.55. All were very respectable times. (Combine 40 Times)

Dennard flipped the script a bit with an impressive 37-inch vertical jump, while Kirkpatrick (37), Claiborne (34.5) and Jenkins (33.5) lagged behind him a bit.

While Claiborne said he believes his speed helps separate him from the other top cornerbacks, he pointed to technique when asked to describe his game.

"More of a technician, and trying to funnel the guys instead of getting real physical with them at the line all the time," said Claiborne, who considers himself a better man coverage corner than zone.

The biggest mover of the day was clearly Central Florida's Josh Robinson, who torched the 40 in 4.33 seconds. He also led the defensive backs with a 133-inch broad jump and finished second in the position group with a 38 1/2-inch vertical. Currently projected as a fourth-round pick, Robinson figures to ride the wave up the draft board a bit leading into the pro day season.

[packrulz]

Winners, losers heading into final day at combine
By Vic Ketchman, packers.com editor
INDIANAPOLIS—West Virginia’s Bruce Irvin and Memphis State’s Dontari Poe are the big winners at the “NFL Scouting Combine,” heading into Tuesday’s event-closing defensive back workouts.

“He made $5 million in 4½ seconds. He went from the third round to the first round. He’s the best 3-4 backer in the whole draft now,” a scout said of Irvin following the blazing, 4.50 40 he ran on Monday.

Meanwhile, Poe (pictured), all 6-5, 350 pounds of him, ran an astonishing 4.9 and added to that one of the most athletic performances of any big man in combine history on Monday. Poe, considered to be a second/third-round pick heading into the combine, certainly pushed his way into round one with his workout.

Here’s a look at the winners and losers, by position, at this year’s combine, heading into the final day.

Offensive linemen

Mike Adams of Ohio State—At 6-7, 323, and with limited exposure to football, Adams impressed scouts at the combine the same way he did it at the Senior Bowl, by being athletic.

Phillip Blake of Baylor—In a weak crop of centers, Blake was impressive. “Sneaky late-round pick,” a scout said.

David DeCastro of Stanford—Proved his strength by doing 34 reps of 225 pounds.

Cordy Glenn of Georgia—Glenn followed the most dominant physical performance of the Senior Bowl with a light-footed and athletic display at the combine that proved he can play right tackle as well as he plays left guard. He entrenched himself in the first round.

Matt Kalil of USC—Ran and worked out well; he’s a top 10 pick.

Peter Konz of Wisconsin—Hurt himself by doing only 18 reps on the bench.

Riley Reiff of Iowa—Not elite, but proved he can start at right tackle.

Amini Silatolu of Midwestern State—He did 28 reps. “He’s the next Jahri Evans,” a scout said.

Tight ends

Dwayne Allen of Clemson—A 4.8 40 hurt him.

Michael Egnew of Missouri—He broad jumped 11-1, ran a 4.52 and turned in an athletic workout, but he wasn’t used as an in-line blocker at Missouri, which begs the question: Is he a tight end or a wide receiver?

Ledarius Green of Louisiana-Lafayette—A 4.47 really helps him, but he remains undersized.

James Hanna of Oklahoma—Helped his draft stock with a 4.48.

Quarterbacks

Kirk Cousins of Michigan State—Showed his arm at the Senior Bowl and did it again at the combine. Third-round prospect that could move into round two.

Nick Foles of Arizona—Ran a 5.1 and his passes fluttered.

Robert Griffin of Baylor—Ran 4.4 and locked down the No. 2 overall pick in the draft, for which the Rams are thankful because they’re likely to get a king’s ransom for the pick.

Ryan Lindley of San Diego State—Displayed a strong arm, but not much accuracy.

Brandon Weeden of Oklahoma State—Weeden provided an accurate scouting report on himself when he said his age, 28, is his only red flag.

Wide receivers

Joe Adams of Arkansas—Adams zipped up boards on the strength of his Senior Bowl. The 4.55 he ran at the combine might send him into free fall.

Travis Benjamin of Miami—Scouts love his 4.38 speed.

Justin Blackmon of Oklahoma State—He caught well but didn’t run, which makes his pro day very important. There are questions about his speed that will determine his fate when those questions are answered.

Jarrett Boykin of Virginia Tech—He ran 4.79. Ouch!

Lavon Brazill of Ohio—Ran well, good workout.

Danny Coale of Virginia Tech—Good route-runner.

Juron Criner of Arizona—Strong at the Senior Bowl, but ran 4.6 at the combine.

Michael Floyd of Notre Dame—Ran 4.4’s, showed good hands, helped himself.

Chris Givens of Wake Forest—Ran 4.39.

T.J. Graham of N.C. State—Ran 4.38.

Stephen Hill of Georgia Tech—At 6-4, 215, Hill ran a 4.31 and left scouts asking: Is Hill the next Calvin Johnson? Hill was hidden in a wishbone offense at Tech.

A.J. Jenkins of Illinois—Beep, beep at 4.37.

Kashif Moore of UConn—Vertical jump of 43½ on legs that ran a 4.41.

Derek Moye of Penn State—Tall and athletic receiver. “He’s my sleeper,” a scout said.

Chris Owusu of Stanford—Seldom healthy in college, but he ran a 4.35 and that’ll get the scouts’ attention.

Randle Rueben of LSU—Probably fell out of the top 10 after running 4.58.

Kendall Wright of Baylor—A 4.61 really hurt this very productive player.

Running backs

Vick Ballard of Mississippi State—Nice Senior Bowl but ran 4.6 and crashed into an electronic timer at the combine.

Lennon Creer of Louisiana Tech—Jumped up as a late addition at the Senior Bowl, but fell back down with a 4.72 and bad-hands display at the combine.

Ronnie Hillman of San Diego State—Ran 4.38, caught well. “Poor man’s Maurice Jones Drew,” a scout said.

Lamar Miller of Miami—One of the combine’s big winners after running a 4.37.

Robert Turbin of Utah State—"Best body at the combine,” a scout said.

Defensive linemen

Jake Bequette of Arkansas—Ran 4.7’s and has the look of a true 3-4 outside linebacker.

Andre Branch of Clemson—Ran 4.6 and looked athletic.

Michael Brockers of LSU—A 5.4 probably dropped him out of the top 10.

Loni Fangupo of BYU—A 5.1 moved this short, squat nose tackle up draft boards.

Jaye Howard of Florida—Ran 4.79 and worked out well.

Melvin Ingram of South Carolina—His speed helps him, but teams will struggle with his height and short arms.

Ronnell Lewis of Oklahoma—He ran a 4.65 and a scout said Lewis is a solid second/third-round prospect for a 3-4 team.

Shea McLellin of Boise State—Opened eyes at the Senior Bowl and then made those eyes pop on Monday with 4.6’s and good drills.

Whitney Mercilus of Illinois—Ran 4.6’s and into the first round.

Nick Perry of USC—Ran 4.51 on 271 pounds. Why has he under-achieved?

Kendall Reyes of UConn—Solid postseason in every way.

Olivier Vernon of Miami—Very fluid in his drops.

Linebackers

Zach Brown of North Carolina—Ran 4.4, athletic workout.

Vontaze Burfict of Arizona State—A very bad day; ran 5.0 and didn’t finish workout.

Mychal Kendricks of California—Ran 4.5’s, good drills.

Luke Kuechly of Boston College—Likely to be first linebacker picked after a fast, fluid workout.

Sean Spence of Miami—His 12 reps hurt him.

Courtney Upshaw of Alabama—“I don’t think he can play linebacker,” a scout said following a workout in which Upshaw declined to run.

[Fritz]

This Jake Bequette of Arkansas...why not more buzz about him? The dude is huge for on OLB - I think he's 6'5" or so and around 265, but he tied for the best three-cone drill time amongst the top prospects. Plus his forty time was good.

What's the word?

[Bretsky]

This Jake Bequette of Arkansas...why not more buzz about him? The dude is huge for on OLB - I think he's 6'5" or so and around 265, but he tied for the best three-cone drill time amongst the top prospects. Plus his forty time was good.

What's the word?

The Word
Vinny Curry :)


West Virginia DL Bruce Irvin posted the fasted three-cone drill out of defensive lineman in the 2012 NFL Scouting Combine with a result of 6.70 seconds. Those that followed included South Carolina DL Melvin Ingram (6.83), Arkansas DL Jake Bequette (6.90), Marshall DL Vinny Curry (6.90) and Rutgers DL Justin Francis (7.05).



Read more: http://www.kffl.com/gnews.php?id=772022-nfl-top-five-three-cone-drill-results-for-d-lineman#ixzz1nmFmB7bd

[Deputy Nutz]

Bruce Irvin is fast as shit and a great athlete but I wouldn't draft him for anything more than a pass rusher coming out of a three point stance. I don't think he has the instincts to play OLB in a 3-4.

Disappointed in Vontaze Burfict, I watched him run and he looked like the combine was the last place he wanted to be. No explosion and looked to give up mid run. Maybe he was hurting but a guy with an already questionable make up it is hard to look past his effort at the combine. He was a mid rounder that will be happy if he is picked in the 6th round.

I liked what I saw of Ronnell Lewis on film, but the guy's only instinct is to attack, I don't like the fact that he doesn't diagnose, or make reads in the running game, he will get picked on in play action. He would be worth a 3rd round pick, but he might be the 2012 version of Torrence Marshall

Whitney Mercilius is someone to keep an eye on, hard to predict because he is a one year wonder, but he has the athleticsm you want when drafting a 3-4 OLB, same with Nick Perry. Perry is cut up, big and imposing, but where the hell has this guy been his whole career at USC? Maybe pairing him up with a guy like Mathews would keep his motor running.

Peter Konz, WEAK SAUCE!!! buddy. I did 26 reps when I was 20 years old and just finishing a grueling 1.5 mile run. I did 28 reps when I was 22 years old, and I am not 6-5 315 pounds. I think weight lifting has a lot to do with genetics. I wouldn't rule Konz out of the first round because he failed to bench the bar 20 times, maybe if he was a 340 pound road grader of a guard and he couldn't lift then you would have a serious problem. Konz has great technique and agility for a center and if he falls to the end of the second round he is the steal of the draft

[Fritz]

Bruce Irvin is fast as shit and a great athlete but I wouldn't draft him for anything more than a pass rusher coming out of a three point stance. I don't think he has the instincts to play OLB in a 3-4.

Disappointed in Vontaze Burfict, I watched him run and he looked like the combine was the last place he wanted to be. No explosion and looked to give up mid run. Maybe he was hurting but a guy with an already questionable make up it is hard to look past his effort at the combine. He was a mid rounder that will be happy if he is picked in the 6th round.

I liked what I saw of Ronnell Lewis on film, but the guy's only instinct is to attack, I don't like the fact that he doesn't diagnose, or make reads in the running game, he will get picked on in play action. He would be worth a 3rd round pick, but he might be the 2012 version of Torrence Marshall

Whitney Mercilius is someone to keep an eye on, hard to predict because he is a one year wonder, but he has the athleticsm you want when drafting a 3-4 OLB, same with Nick Perry. Perry is cut up, big and imposing, but where the hell has this guy been his whole career at USC? Maybe pairing him up with a guy like Mathews would keep his motor running.

Peter Konz, WEAK SAUCE!!! buddy. I did 26 reps when I was 20 years old and just finishing a grueling 1.5 mile run. I did 28 reps when I was 22 years old, and I am not 6-5 315 pounds. I think weight lifting has a lot to do with genetics. I wouldn't rule Konz out of the first round because he failed to bench the bar 20 times, maybe if he was a 340 pound road grader of a guard and he couldn't lift then you would have a serious problem. Konz has great technique and agility for a center and if he falls to the end of the second round he is the steal of the draft

This is Nutz at his best. Thanks for the insight!

But this Bequette guy tested pretty well, and he's a big guy. Anybody see him play or know anything about him other than the raw numbers?

And what's the downside of Vinny Curry? (Don't say "none" Bretsky!)

[SkinBasket]

What made Poe impressive is that not only did he score well in the drills, and demonstrate some amazing athleticism, but he was also showing a lot of toughness hitting the pads hard during the drills, whereas the guys trying to score better times were just slapping them or in some cases tickling them.

I will find myself rooting for Melvin Ingram because he reminded me of a black Cornholio with amazing hips.

[pbmax]

JSO has listed some of the numbers for OLB only. Same link and list as in other thread. But if this 4 year old Combine thread is to be the official one, it seems to belong here.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/140806933.html

[Deputy Nutz]

This is Nutz at his best. Thanks for the insight!

But this Bequette guy tested pretty well, and he's a big guy. Anybody see him play or know anything about him other than the raw numbers?

And what's the downside of Vinny Curry? (Don't say "none" Bretsky!)



Jake Bequette,

Sorry he doesn't look like a 3-4 outside linebacker, he looks like Aaron Kampman.

[Deputy Nutz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAUNLNACnyg&feature=player_detailpage

[3irty1]

Well top of my wish list is Bruce Irvin. Athletically he's off the charts, looks like a ROLB to me.

[Cleft Crusty]

Bruce Irvin is fast as shit and a great athlete but I wouldn't draft him for anything more than a pass rusher coming out of a three point stance. I don't think he has the instincts to play OLB in a 3-4.

Disappointed in Vontaze Burfict, I watched him run and he looked like the combine was the last place he wanted to be. No explosion and looked to give up mid run. Maybe he was hurting but a guy with an already questionable make up it is hard to look past his effort at the combine. He was a mid rounder that will be happy if he is picked in the 6th round.

I liked what I saw of Ronnell Lewis on film, but the guy's only instinct is to attack, I don't like the fact that he doesn't diagnose, or make reads in the running game, he will get picked on in play action. He would be worth a 3rd round pick, but he might be the 2012 version of Torrence Marshall

Whitney Mercilius is someone to keep an eye on, hard to predict because he is a one year wonder, but he has the athleticsm you want when drafting a 3-4 OLB, same with Nick Perry. Perry is cut up, big and imposing, but where the hell has this guy been his whole career at USC? Maybe pairing him up with a guy like Mathews would keep his motor running.

Peter Konz, WEAK SAUCE!!! buddy. I did 26 reps when I was 20 years old and just finishing a grueling 1.5 mile run. I did 28 reps when I was 22 years old, and I am not 6-5 315 pounds. I think weight lifting has a lot to do with genetics. I wouldn't rule Konz out of the first round because he failed to bench the bar 20 times, maybe if he was a 340 pound road grader of a guard and he couldn't lift then you would have a serious problem. Konz has great technique and agility for a center and if he falls to the end of the second round he is the steal of the draft


I agree with your view of Konz; any team who likes his technique ought to be able to help him improve his strength, especially if they have a guy like Rock Gullickson as their strength and conditioning coach.

[Deputy Nutz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=LKPpjctGhBo

Ingram, needs to learn actual moves to rush the passer rather than standing straight up. Great athlete, but any team that drafts him is going to have to work with him.

[Deputy Nutz]

Well top of my wish list is Bruce Irvin. Athletically he's off the charts, looks like a ROLB to me.

He is a pass rusher, but he has very limited experience playing football and West Virgina was happy having him start in a sprinter stance and attack the qb. He is to thin to play defensive end in the NFL on a regular basis, and he doesn't have the experience or the skills at this point to play outside linebacker. See Eric Walden, there is more to playing OLB in a 3-4 than rushing the passer, you have to recognize run and hold your responsibilities or the whole defense caves in. I wish it were that simple because Irvin is a fantastic athlete, he is just behind the curve at this point to be anything more than a KGB type player, which the Packers don't need.

[mraynrand]

He is a pass rusher, but he has very limited experience playing football and West Virgina was happy having him start in a sprinter stance and attack the qb. He is to thin to play defensive end in the NFL on a regular basis, and he doesn't have the experience or the skills at this point to play outside linebacker. See Eric Walden, there is more to playing OLB in a 3-4 than rushing the passer, you have to recognize run and hold your responsibilities or the whole defense caves in. I wish it were that simple because Irvin is a fantastic athlete, he is just behind the curve at this point to be anything more than a KGB type player, which the Packers don't need.

I realize everyone is fixated on the pass rush, but are there vids that show any of these guys in space, or actually setting an edge in the run defense? That Jake Bequette video was all pass rush. BTW, you only compared him to Aaron Kampman because he is black. racist.

[Deputy Nutz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=So3cc75Ng2g&feature=player_detailpage

I might be a little harsh on him, he is a hell of a pass rusher, I just didn't see a whole lot on him playing the run or dropping into coverage. He is a risk as a 3-4 olb, could be the next LT, could become a situational pass rusher. He is fast though.

[Deputy Nutz]

I realize everyone is fixated on the pass rush, but are there vids that show any of these guys in space, or actually setting an edge in the run defense? That Jake Bequette video was all pass rush. BTW, you only compared him to Aaron Kampman because he is black. racist.

You make some valid points, and it is very difficult to find these guys playing the run which is important see Erik Walden play the run.

[Deputy Nutz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJAg8_osV88&feature=player_detailpage

I like Keenan Robinson from Texas. Good in space, plays more of a WOLB in a 4-3 but has the size of a 3-4 outside linebacker. Better OLB than any one but clay mathews on the Packer.

[Lurker64]

You make some valid points, and it is very difficult to find these guys playing the run which is important see Erik Walden play the run.

This is why Youtube scouting is just so unreliable these days, since you're mostly going to get highlight reels (and everybody looks good on their highlight reels), and even if you get full games that's generally the television broadcast which is really bad at showing you useful information.

I mean, everybody should feel good about watching guys on youtube and seeing what they like, but you're never going to see enough to really get a complete picture on the guy. The only people who really do thorough and useful tape study are actually employed by the NFL (since they're the only ones who can get the 22s.)

So I have no idea if Bruce Irvin can play the run, but I'm pretty sure that Ted Thompson, Eliot Wolf, etc know. That's why I hate it when people imply they're smarter than professional scouts, the pros have access to so much more information than anybody else does.

[Smidgeon]

JSO has listed some of the numbers for OLB only. Same link and list as in other thread. But if this 4 year old Combine thread is to be the official one, it seems to belong here.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/140806933.html

Except they don't have 10 yard splits there. :\

[SkinBasket]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqiEROuemJc

[Cheesehead Craig]

I might be a little harsh on him, he is a hell of a pass rusher, I just didn't see a whole lot on him playing the run or dropping into coverage. He is a risk as a 3-4 olb, could be the next LT, could become a situational pass rusher. He is fast though.

Damn, he is fast. I don't see him getting too overpowered in that video but like you said, not much vs the run or in coverage. I like him though just for the speed factor. Can't coach speed.

[3irty1]

Well Bruce clearly has the speed to threaten the edge and some insane closing speed as well to make sacks happen but the guy looks physical too, I mean he was playing DE in a 3-3-5 base D at WV. The dude can shed a tackle and beat anyone to the outside, I don't think he's a major concern against the run at this point... but even if he were, a situational pass rusher is arguably EXACTLY what we need and with where Bruce is projected to go I'd be thrilled for a KGB type player out of him. Hell, Brad Jones does a fine job in the 3-4, we need a solid 4th pass rusher in the 2-4 and 3-3 on passing situations. That said, his 3-cone and SS suggest the guy has the change of direction skills to cover. Dude's a former wideout for christsakes.

[packrulz]

Tuesday February 28, 2012 - 5:27 PM
Draft Tip Sheet: Freakishly talented Poe might fit in any defense
By Len Pasquarelli | The Sports Xchange/CBSSports.com

Dontari Poe could land with a 4-3 team now instead of a 3-4. (US Presswire)
Although he was officially designated as a defensive tackle by NFL combine officials, many scouts felt even before the workouts that Dontari Poe of Memphis best projected as a nose tackle at the pro level.

Without question one of the prospects who generated the most buzz at the scouting combine, Poe exhibited such freakish skills that it doesn't seem to matter now what kind of front is utilized as a "base" defense by the team that selects him.

The massive Poe (6-feet-3 1/2, 346 pounds), who registered 44 repetitions in the bench press and clocked a 4.98 time in the 40, demonstrated abilities that translate to the 3-4, for sure, but also displayed that he can clearly play in a 4-3.

While he wasn't one of only four defensive linemen labeled nose tackles who were invited to the Indy workouts, the suspicion was that was his best position. But it's now possible, given Poe's scintillating performance, that he could become the second highest-regarded nose prospect in a row to be chosen by a 4-3 team.

Last year, Phil Taylor of Baylor was viewed by many scouts as the premier nose tackle in the draft pool. Taylor was selected 21st overall by Cleveland, which had begun the transition to a 4-3 under new coordinator Dick Jauron, and was paired with another very good nose tackle, veteran Ahtyba Rubin, inside.
Some observers questioned the sagacity of the Browns but, a year later, no one can argue with the results.

Despite winning only four games, Cleveland finished 10th in the league in overall defense. Taylor recorded 59 tackles and four sacks, only 1.5 sacks fewer than he had in his college career. Although he struggled at times early in the season, Taylor became a force inside, once he improved using his hands more than just his size.

"(The position) never really mattered as much to me as it did some other people," Taylor said.

Poe might not duplicate the Taylor move, but there is certainly a chance, and coaches and coordinators from 4-3 teams were intrigued by putting him in the inside of their line.

"The guy is pretty rare," said Seattle coordinator Gus Bradley.

For his part, Poe doesn't seem to care where, and in what kind of defense, he plays. He cited Pittsburgh perennial Pro Bowl nose tackle Casey Hampton as a player he followed -- and the Steelers have been mentioned as a potential landing spot -- but also pointed out that he played various fronts in college. And that he even lined up at end in some defenses. There are a few scouts who insisted to The Sports Xchange the last few days that Poe might be able to log some snaps at end in a 3-4.

"I've played outside. I could do it," Poe said. "But I think I can cause a lot more problems inside, no matter the (scheme)."

• On the subject of nose tackles, there is a dearth of prospects at the position, and this year's draft doesn't appear to be much different. With the switches anticipated by some teams, there likely will be only 11 franchises using the 3-4 as a "base" front in 2012, but as many as five or six of them need nose tackles. Part of the need will be filled in free agency, with a very good veteran like Sione Pouha of the Jets expected to change teams. But clubs still need to draft young nose tackles, and, if Poe is taken by a 4-3 club, some teams could be scrambling. Of the four players labeled as nose tackles at the combine, two of them, USC Christian Tupou (289 pounds) and Kheeston Randall of Texas (293), might not have the kind of bulk teams are seeking at the position. The other two nose tackle candidates in Indy, Michigan's Mike Martin and Josh Chapman of Alabama, checked in at 306 and 316, respectively.

Martin, who also had a strong showing at the Senior Bowl, may have established himself as the best "pure" nose tackle in the pool. Perhaps the surest bet, though, is Alameda Ta'amu of Washington, who like Poe was listed as a defensive tackle, but who has the size (6-3, 348), bulk, and demeanor to project as a nose tackle. There is only one 3-4 team in the top 10 of the first round -- Washington at No. 6, and the Redskins have bigger priorities -- but there are five in the top half of the stanza.

• A few weeks ago in this space, we cited the possibilities that tailback LaMichael James of Oregon might be able to play some in the slot, as a part-time receiver in the NFL. The jury is still out on James' potential as a receiver, as it is on other undersized burner, Florida's Chris Rainey. Both James (5-8, 194) and Rainey (5-8 3/8, 180), ran 4.45, tied for the second quickest time among backs, and both caught the ball well. But scouts want to see them catch the ball even more, and will spend time evaluating their hands at the pro days for the players. For now, they are regarded as complementary or change-of-pace backs and potential return men. But a few scouts noted that James, in particular, could be surprisingly rugged at times.

• One tailback who seemed to grow on scouts was Isaiah Pead of Cincinnati, who followed up a very good Senior Bowl week by performing well in most facets of the combine workouts. Pead was a little stouter than many scouts expected who hadn't seen him up close but felt he would be at 5-10, 197, but still ran under 4.41, and looked pretty smooth and fluid in the drills, including a 6.95-second three-cone drill.

• There are mixed opinions on the fact the St. Louis Rams are advertising so early -- two months before the draft -- that they plan to deal the second overall pick in the draft, but the consensus is that it won't make much of a difference.

"Look, everyone knows they're going to trade it anyway, so what the big deal?" said one general manager with a pick in the top 10, who won't make a move, despite some questions at quarterback. "Everyone has plenty of time to conduct due diligence now, to examine (Robert Griffin III) in every way possible, and for the Rams to gauge the price. In the end, (the early advertising) won't make much difference."

In the unlikely event the Rams get stuck with the choice, St. Louis officials told The Sports Xchange they are still examining the top prospects on the board after Andrew Luck and have a few in mind. It is expected that Southern Cal tackle Matt Kalil and wide receiver Justin Blackmon of Oklahoma State are two near the top of the Rams' board.
Irvin leads group of pass rushers
By Vic Ketchman, packers.com editor
Posted Feb 27, 2012
INDIANAPOLIS—The late-morning workout group of defensive linemen revealed several more pass-rush prospects to play outside linebacker in a 3-4 defense. The Packers employ a 3-4 defensive scheme and are thought to be interested in drafting a pass rusher.

Bruce Irvin, an undersized defensive end at West Virginia, ran one of the fastest times for a defensive lineman in scouting combine history in the early-morning workouts on Monday at Lucas Oil Stadium. Irvin’s 4.43 40 led a group of at least 11 college defensive ends that, as a result of their 40 times on Monday, are candidates to play outside linebacker in a 3-4 defensive scheme. All of the 11 are undersized college defensive ends and accomplished pass rushers.

To put Irvin’s 4.43 into perspective, it would be welcomed by most wide receiver prospects. At 245 pounds, Irvin is far too light to play defensive end in the NFL. His 40 time on Monday immediately shot him up draft boards around the league.

These college defensive ends also defined themselves as prospects to play outside linebacker in an NFL 3-4 defense: Southern Cal’s Nick Perry (4.50), Clemson’s Andre Branch (4.62), Illinois’ Whitney Mercilus (4.63), Boise State’s Shea McLellin (4.65), Miami’s Olivier Vernon (4.68), Missouri’s Jacquies Smith (4.68), South Carolina’s Melvin Ingram (4.66), Virginia’s Cam Johnson (4.75), Pitt’s Brandon Lindsey (4.78) and Arkansas’ Jake Bequette (4.78).

The cutoff time for an outside linebacker is widely considered to be 4.8. Marshall defensive end Vinny Curry, an undersized defensive end thought to project to outside linebacker, ran a 4.85.

All of the times above were provided by NFL Network and are unofficial. Linebackers were to work out in the afternoon.

[Deputy Nutz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqiEROuemJc

Good change of direction, comes off the ball really well, doesn't get confused by misdirection. Needs to stay lower when engaging with offensive linemen, needs a better punch and extention. Looked to tire out at the end of the game. Looks like an olb to me, from this small sample I think he would be a good fit for the Packers.

[Deputy Nutz]

This is why Youtube scouting is just so unreliable these days, since you're mostly going to get highlight reels (and everybody looks good on their highlight reels), and even if you get full games that's generally the television broadcast which is really bad at showing you useful information.

I mean, everybody should feel good about watching guys on youtube and seeing what they like, but you're never going to see enough to really get a complete picture on the guy. The only people who really do thorough and useful tape study are actually employed by the NFL (since they're the only ones who can get the 22s.)

So I have no idea if Bruce Irvin can play the run, but I'm pretty sure that Ted Thompson, Eliot Wolf, etc know. That's why I hate it when people imply they're smarter than professional scouts, the pros have access to so much more information than anybody else does.


What you say is true, but a few years ago we didn't even have Youtube to show us video of these prospects, we had to listen or read what others had to say about them. I try to recognize in the highlight film if it is a play were the defensive end steam rolls a running back to get the QB, or if it s a blown assignment. I try to see if the player is exploding off the ball, is first to engage the blocker, and how he controls the blocker to get to the QB. I also watch to see if the guy just heads up field or tries to run around blocks. There is very little on the running game, but looking for an edge player you want to see if he holds his responsiblities before rushing up field to kill the QB.

It is still a limited process but it is better than listening to the talking heads and forming your opinions around Mel Kiper.

[Deputy Nutz]

Well Bruce clearly has the speed to threaten the edge and some insane closing speed as well to make sacks happen but the guy looks physical too, I mean he was playing DE in a 3-3-5 base D at WV. The dude can shed a tackle and beat anyone to the outside, I don't think he's a major concern against the run at this point... but even if he were, a situational pass rusher is arguably EXACTLY what we need and with where Bruce is projected to go I'd be thrilled for a KGB type player out of him. Hell, Brad Jones does a fine job in the 3-4, we need a solid 4th pass rusher in the 2-4 and 3-3 on passing situations. That said, his 3-cone and SS suggest the guy has the change of direction skills to cover. Dude's a former wideout for christsakes.

I don't even know if he played high school football. Brad Jones sucked balls the last 3 years in Green Bay, and the Packers' run defense was shit on the opposite side of Clay Mathews because Walden had no feel, and couldn't hold his responsibilities, so don't tell me the Packers don't need a quality OLB that can remember and execute their responsiblities. Bruce Irvin is a RISK, that is all I am saying, he as great get off and because of his speed he could line up outside the tackle box and get the edge on college linemen. His speed should translate to the next level, but how fast is he going to acquire other pass rushing techniques? How fast is he going to be able to acquire coverage techniques and skills? How is he going to handle the run responsibilities at the next level? All things that were not proven at the combine, or on the limited youtube film that I watched on this guy. Great athlete he jumps off on the film, but I am not questioning his athletic ability.

[Cheesehead Craig]

DE Cam Johnson. Good change of direction, comes off the ball really well, doesn't get confused by misdirection. Needs to stay lower when engaging with offensive linemen, needs a better punch and extention. Looked to tire out at the end of the game. Looks like an olb to me, from this small sample I think he would be a good fit for the Packers.

Are you concerned at all about his weight? 270 is a bit on the high side.

[Deputy Nutz]

I think he is smart coming into the combine at that weight, because he can appeal to both 3-4 teams and 4-3 teams. What I saw on the film that SB posted he had good quickness at and around the line of scrimmage, took good angles, and decent agility. I am sure he would lose 10-15 pounds if needed to play more effectively at OLB.

[Lurker64]

Are you concerned at all about his weight? 270 is a bit on the high side.

It's probably easier for OLB conversion prospects to lose weight than to gain it. But "weight" is actually kind of irrelevant next to "can he play." I mean, the Steelers list Woodley at 265 and Worilds at 262.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Good points, thanks guys.

[wist43]

I liked what I saw of Irvin and Robinson in those clips. Didn't like what I saw there of Ingram at all... his first step seemed pedestrian, he struggled to disengage, isn't long, and didn't seem explosive - I guess that would make him a perfect fit for GB's front seven... he'd fit right in ;)

No matter how you slice it , to get past the likes of New Orleans and the Giants, we have to improve on defense - and that has to begin with an infusion of talent in the front 7.

TT's philosphy says that 3rd and 4th year developmental players should be stepping in, and I agree with that approach to whatever extent. Funny thing happened on the way to the forum though - none of the guys he has brought in can play. As I've said, we have only 2 legit front 7 guys (Matthews and Raji); Pickett, Hawk, and Bishop are all NFL calibur players, but are all average; the rest are JAG's and need to be replaced.

Neal stunk; Wilson and Wynn are below average players; Jones, Zombo, Walden, and Francois have all proven they can't play.

TT has to face up to reality and admit that he can't even field an NFL calibur front 7. He bit the bullet in '09 and spent early picks on Raji and Matthews, I guess he figured those 2 guys would be the core he could build around, and after that scrounging around at Hooters looking for talent was all he needed to do. He invested a 2nd round pick in Neal, and even though I had high hopes for him too, he looked awful last year, and might very well be a bust.

After the switch to the 3-4, TT said he would begin to transition to 3-4 body types, and retrofit the defense over the course of a few years... I guess I can't say he hasn't attempted to do that - what I can say is that his efforts have been an abysmal failure.

Offense is great though :)

[packrulz]

This guy likes Ingram, *Whitney Mercilus, Andre Branch, Shea McClellin, & Mychal Kendricks (ILB). He thinks Mark Barron (safety) will drop because of his hernia surgery and Poe's great workout. CB's mentioned are *Stephon Gilmore & Trumaine Johnson (who could be moved to safety).
Video: http://www.packers.com/media-center/videos/Combine-wrap-up-Who-will-fall-to-Packers/1f567f6f-4425-4001-8067-c93dd9267a21

[Bretsky]

IMO Poe is off the board in the top 20

[wist43]

This guy likes Ingram, *Whitney Mercilus, Andre Branch, Shea McClellin, & Mychal Kendricks (ILB). He thinks Mark Barron (safety) will drop because of his hernia surgery and Poe's great workout. CB's mentioned are *Stephon Gilmore & Trumaine Johnson (who could be moved to safety).
Video: http://www.packers.com/media-center/videos/Combine-wrap-up-Who-will-fall-to-Packers/1f567f6f-4425-4001-8067-c93dd9267a21

I liked what I saw of Kendricks - but he's short, isn't a pass rusher at all unless he has a clean lane, and struggles to disengage. He needs to play in space and be protected by behemoths in front of him. That Packers don't really play that style - especially considering that Capers is running a 2-whatever a good amount of the time.

We desperately need front 7 help, but Kendricks being an ILB doesn't do much to improve us this year - he could certainly replace Hawk or Bishop at some point; but he's certainly not someone an opposing offense would have to account for.

As for those other guys... maybe they ran well, and performed agility drills well at the combine, but I wasn't impressed with what I saw on tape. All of them seemed pedestrian. None of them pressed the corner; none of them disengaged well... Mercilus and Branch both looked pretty content to play the dancing bear game when isolated one-on-one against Tackles that likely aren't NFL calibur.

I certainly don't want any of those guys in the first round.

[Pugger]

I don't know if I'd say Neal stunk, he was just not healthy and you can't expect a guy to play decently hobbling. He should have been put on IR but with those stiffs Wilson and Wynn as alternatives I suppose I can't blame Capers and company for holding out hope for Neal to come around last season.

[wist43]

I don't know if I'd say Neal stunk, he was just not healthy and you can't expect a guy to play decently hobbling. He should have been put on IR but with those stiffs Wilson and Wynn as alternatives I suppose I can't blame Capers and company for holding out hope for Neal to come around last season.

I still have hope for Neal... I like what I saw of him before the injury; but there's no way to sugar coat what he was last year, he was nothing short of awful. He shouldn't have even been on the field. I agree, they should have just IR'd him.

Guy will be coming back, and he is a big body - he certainly can't be any worse than Wilson or Wynn, but that isn't saying much.

[swede]

Having laid my own peepers on Neal pre-"I hurt myself doing a drill,"and having observed the results of his "recovery" from the inexplicable owie, I am prepared to lay down a very gloomy forecast calling for Harrell-like disappointment. His body is awesome, but so too is a California redwood which also tends to snap when bent.

[swede]

Having laid my own peepers on Neal pre-"I hurt myself doing a drill,"and having observed the results of his "recovery" from the inexplicable owie, I am prepared to lay down a very gloomy forecast calling for Harrell-like disappointment. His body is awesome, but so too is a California redwood which also tends to snap when bent.

Nice job, swede.

Now you're gloomier than Wist.

[Fritz]

Another way to look at it is who from the current team would you like trimmed away?

For me, it's Wilson and Wynn and maybe Howard Green, Eric Walden and Frank Zombo, and pat Lee.

So let's draft us about six defensive players to compete for those jobs. And Ted - please, not all fourth, fifth, sixth and seventh rounders and street free agents, okay?

That so-and-so is likely to draft a wide receiver in the first round. Sigh. But then again, in three years maybe we'll all be raving about the guy.

[wist43]

Nice job, swede.

Now you're gloomier than Wist.

Too funny, lol... got a good chuckle out of that one Swede :)

[Deputy Nutz]

For some of us coming to the party a little late we had a pretty good draft thread going right here. I thought I would bump it instead of re-sharing all of our thoughts in another thread. I am a busy person.