PACK WILL DRAFT WHICH QUALITY WR IN DRAFT?

[TopHat]

:wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: TOP HAT: BONUS FINAL POLL

THE PACKER NATION'S FANS IN FORUMS ARE DEBATING TOP WRS IN THE DRAFT. REMEMBER, WE NEED A DEEP THREAT, RED ZONE, AND IMPACT PLAYER, INCLUDING TE WR TO LINE UP WITH DRIVER AND JENNINGS?

THE PACK MAY DRAFT A VERY GOOD TE WR TO SOLVE BOTH PROBLEMS. FINALLY, JOHNSON AND JARRETT, MAYBE GINN, WILL LIKELY BE GONE BY OUR 16TH. THE DETAILED INFO ABOUT SOME WRS ARE IN THE TT POLL/F/A AND DRAFT WATCH & BELOW.

WHO DO YOU THINK THE PACK WILL DRAFT AND COMMENT AT WHAT ROUND? SCOUTS WOULD NOT AGREE WITH SCOUT'S RANKINGS. HOWEVER YOU CAN USE IT FOR YOUR CHOICES ADDING OTHER FOR ALTERNATIVES AND SLEEPERS. PLEASE VOTE AND COMMENT.

TOP WRS LISTINGS:

Rank Name School Pos HT WT 40 Type Grade Draft Range

1 Calvin Johnson Georgia Tech WR 6044e 230e 4.50e A 0.75 Draft # 1

2 Ted Ginn Ohio State WR 5114e 185e 4.35e G 1.16 Draft # 1

3 Dwayne Jarrett USC WR 6044e 210e 4.55e F 1.16 Draft # 1

4 Sidney Rice South Carolina WR 6034e 205e 4.50e I 1.19 Draft # 1 - 2

5 Robert Meachem Tennessee WR 6024e 210e 4.50e I 1.20 Draft # 1 - 2

6 Craig Davis LSU WR 6011v 203v 4.40v I 1.21 Draft # 1 - 2

7 Anthony Gonzalez Ohio State WR 6000e 190e 4.45e I 1.28 Draft # 2 - 3

8 Johnnie Lee Higgins UTEP WR 5114v 184v 4.38v G 1.29 Draft # 2 - 3

9 Dwayne Bowe LSU WR 6016v 223v 4.50e I 1.30 Draft # 2 - 3

__________________________________________________ ______________________________________________

FF TOP 13 PROFILES:

1. Calvin Johnson 6-4 235 Georgia Tech JR

No player at his position has come into the league with his combination of size, strength, speed and ability after the catch. This kid is about as can't miss as they come.

2. Dwayne Jarrett 6-5 215 USC JR

A very fluid receiver with great size and more than enough speed to be a number one at the next level. Jarrett will make the spectacular grab in traffic and as a red zone threat he has the ideal skills. I see so much in this kid that I like. I compare Jarrett to former Wisconsin Badger and New York Jet Al Toon and that is saying a whole bunch. As of now Jarrett appears to be a top fifteen selection in the 2007 draft.

3. Ted Ginn JR. 6-0 180 Ohio St. JR

Ginn doesn't run the most precise routes and as a whole he is certainly an unfinished product but he will stretch the field like Randy Moss has done in the past and his return skills are game breaking. Did I forget to mention that he will instantly become one of the NFL's fastest players with his 4.3 speed?

4. Robert Meacham 6-2 220 Tennessee SR

Most people have Dwayne Bowe in this spot but I like Meacham a bit more. Meacham has nice size and outstanding speed to go along with solid hands [improving] and the knack for making the big play. He reminds me a bit of the Colts Reggie Wayne.

5. Dwayne Bowe 6-3 220 LSU SR

If Meacham is Reggie Wayne then Bowe is Anquan Boldin with more speed. A big target with the strength and speed to cause havoc over the middle and in the red zone. A fast riser that wouldn't shock to be the second or third wideout taken.

6. Sidney Rice 6-4 195 South Carolina JR

One of the most interesting players in this draft. He could be this drafts Chad Johnson. A tall wideout with a slender build and unpolished game. He will make a big play on a regular basis and there is no denying he has some real productivity. The question with Rice will be his speed. If he can run 4.5 or less he will be a first rounder and a possible top 15-20 selection.

7. Anthony Gonzalez 6-0 200 Ohio State JR

A very nice player that has the skills to become a top notch player at the next level. Gonzalez has great hands and top tier speed to compliment his solid route running technique. This kid is a real sleeper.

8. Johnnie Lee Higgins 6-0 185 UTEP SR

Here is another sleeper prospect [bad combine] at the wide receiver position. Higgins had a very productive career for the Miners. This kid has the whole package which includes seperation speed, solid route technique and very good hands. A huge plus for this kid will be his ability in the return game.

9. Craig Davis 6-1 210 LSU

Another Reggie Wayne type player with nice strength and very good speed. Davis has a knack for coming up big and his ability to run those crossing routes will be attractive to teams in the NFL. Another of those 2nd or 3rd round players that has a chance to be a real contributor for the team that selects him in the draft. This kid has starter skills.

10. Andrae Allison 6-1 190 East Carolina SR

Allison was a dominant force for the Pirates and his big play ability won't be ignored when draft day comes. Exactly how fast is Allison because he does everything else with great ease. I will say it again, another in a long line of this years receiving prospects with solid starting skills if not more.

11. Steve Smith 6-0 200 USC SR

12. Chansi Stuckey 6-0 190 Clemson SR

13. Jason Hill 6-2 210 Washington St. SR

Hill hasn't been utilized enough this season but has still put together some things to pay attention to. His yards per catch is impressive at over 16 yards per reception and his TD total is outstanding when you consider he doesn't even lead his team in receptions. Hill has great size and some real gitty up and go when he has the ball in his hands. Hill's TD to Reception totals are very good. A real big time deep threat with some real run after the catch skills.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __

KEY PROFILES FROM MCGINN ON JSONLINE:

1. Ted Ginn Jr., WR, Ohio State: 6-0, 180. One of the fastest players in the draft. "He's not going to be that guy that goes across the middle," one scout said. "He is your down-the-field vertical guy. Joey Galloway. Terry Glenn." Dropped too many passes in '06. Averaged 11.1 yards per punt return and 24.4 per kickoff return. "What's wrong with him?" another scout said. "I can live with timid. I think he just jumps out at you."

2. Robert Meachem*, WR, Tennessee: 6-2, 214. After a disappointing '05 season came back as a junior to catch 71 passes for 1,298 yards (18.3) and 11 TDs. "A lot of his yards are after the catch," one scout said. "Very strong runner. Very consistent player." Compared by another scout to Michael Irvin. "And he has speed," the scout said. "He's a really good kid. I'd take him after Johnson."

3. Anthony Gonzalez*, WR, Ohio State: 6-0, 193. Ran most of the inside patterns opposite Ginn and surprised some people by coming out early. "Not quite as fast as Ginn but he's fast," one scout said. "Very bright kid. And he isn't small." Always looking to improve. Sleeps in an oxygen-deprivation tent. Also could be a returner.

4. Sidney Rice*, WR, South Carolina: 6-3 1/2, 200. Had 72 catches for 1,178 yards (15.1) and 10 TDs as a third-year sophomore and came out. "He's silky smooth," one scout said. "Played on an awful, awful team. The quarterback was terrible. He's a tall, slender guy with a lot of talent." Often, coach Steve Spurrier just told his quarterbacks to put the ball up to Rice. Regarded as somewhat hard to coach. "He's not a real polished route runner," another scout. "But I don't think his character stuff is too bad."

5. Dwayne Bowe, WR, LSU: 6-2, 221. Best senior wideout. "He's more of a possession tough guy," one scout said. "Does the dirty work. Really good body control. You love the competitor. He has his drops, too." Underwent corrective eye surgery before the '06 season and caught the ball much better. "He always will have to monitor his weight," another scout said. "He knows his limitation, which is his lack of speed. Great route runner. Strong hands. He'd be fun to coach."

[ND72]

I'm going to be one of the only ones who votes for Ted Ginn...BUT, here is my reason.

He won't be a big time #1 WR, I know that...BUT

He will be a very good #2, or slot WR in the NFL.
He will be a KR/PR specialist. And he is faster than most people think. I think the fact he would come in as our #3 WR, and be a KR/PR guy for us. He's worthy of the #1 pick by us. I think he's a lot better than most think though.

[RashanGary]

Interesting ND, I'm not in love with him but he certainly looks like a game breaker when healthy.

[oregonpackfan]

Ted Ginn is fast but he has only medium height and size. We already have medium sized WRs in Driver, Jennings, and Ferguson.

The Packers need a big receiver who can go up and outjump the defenders for the floaters and underthrown balls Favre tends to throw.

I am more for a Dwayne Jarrett type of receiver. Cal Johnson would be ideal but he will be gone by the time the Packers choose their first.

[packers11]

I think when your dealing with receivers its impossible to tell... Chad Jackson and Santonio Holmes were supposed to go in the teens... That did not happen, they both went in the second round, but if any of the WR's you say are in the second round when the packers pick, i'm up for any of them...

[TopHat]

40-yard dash - Wide Receivers Unofficial 40-yard dash times from today's combine workouts.

Aundrae Allison - 4.39
Dwayne Bowe - 4.51
Steve Breaston- 4.41
David Clowney - 4.36
Craig Davis - 4.46
Yamon Figurs - 4.30
Anthony Gonzalez - 4.44
Johnnie Lee Higgins - 4.48
Jason Hill - 4.32
Calvin Johnson - 4.35
Marquay McDaniel - 4.51
Robert Meachem - 4.36
Ryan Moore - 4.59
Ryne Robinson - 4.51
Steve Smith - 4.44
Chansi Stuckey - 4.60
Jayson Swain - 4.67
Paul Williams - 4.41

[red]

meachem, after today

jarrett is ungodly slow if he can only run in the 4.7's

just like i came away today with negative thoughts about russell, i also have negative feelings now for ginn. there he stood right next to russell, with a cell phone hanging around is neck, and giant ear phones on the whole time.

this is the combine, even if you aren't doing anything, you should still listen and learn something, and leave your god damn phone in your room for a couple hours.

[ND72]

Bowe running a 4.51 is kind of surprisingly slow to me (haha...slow, i run like a 6.5...)

[TopHat]

Going for the best of the rest. Quality, not quantity might be draft focus BY McGINN JOnline.com

Having brought the Green Bay Packers back to respectability in two years on the job mainly by amassing draft picks, general manager Ted Thompson could very well be thinking about hitting a home run this time. The Packers enter the off-season with more players under contract than any team in the National Football League. They were the youngest team in the NFL a year ago, the residue of Thompson's drafting philosophy of trading down almost whenever possible. In 2005, Thompson turned seven selections into 11 by trading down three times. Last year, he turned seven choices into 12 by trading down four times and dealing Javon Walker. From the Packers' league-leading haul of 23 players, a total of 17 players remain on the roster, including six starters. As Mike Holmgren's top personnel man in Seattle from 2000-'04, Thompson traded down six times without even once trading up. The Packers desperately needed bodies in recent years because Mike Sherman traded up eight times in his last three drafts and then didn't use the picks wisely. Now, however, the Packers have ample manpower across the board with an abundance of developing players and 12 veterans due back from injured reserve. So it might be time for Thompson to emphasize quality over quantity when the draft arrives nine weeks from now. "That's a valid point," Thompson said. "We did add a lot of core players and people we think are going to be contributors. We haven't worked all that out yet, (but) there's maybe a little less need for more picks. But you'd always like to have a bunch of picks." Green Bay will have its own selection in all seven rounds plus a seventh-round choice from the New York Jets in the September 2005 trade for tackle Steve Morley. The club is unlikely to receive any compensatory picks for free-agent losses. Thompson and his scouts put in 12-hour days for 16 consecutive days before leaving for the scouting combine at the RCA Dome. The Packers talked about hundreds and hundreds of players, but in the back of everyone's mind was what would be available when it's their turn to exercise the No. 16 pick. "Some years it's really strong maybe 1 through 8 or 9 and then it peters down," Thompson said. "But this year it looks like it's going to be strong enough. I think we'll get a good player if we know what we're doing." Ron Wolf commissioned a study in the mid- to late 1990s, according to Thompson, that revealed players selected 1 to 17 turned out to be remarkably similar in longevity and production. To a lesser degree, picks 18 to 42 were about the same, too. But based on the last decade of selections, the Packers better keep their fingers crossed if they sit tight at 16. Five of the last 10 players taken in that position already have made the Pro Bowl, including defensive end Jevon Kearse, linebacker Julian Peterson, wide receiver Santana Moss, safety Troy Polamalu and guard Shawn Andrews. On the opposite end of the spectrum were wide receiver Reidel Anthony and running back William Green, who were busts; wide receiver Kevin Dyson, a keen disappointment; and the last two No. 16 picks, defensive tackle Travis Johnson and defensive back Jason Allen, who have done next to nothing. The last time the Packers had the 16th pick was 1994, when they wound up with guard Aaron Taylor. If Thompson had his druthers, he'd probably like to find at No. 16 a pass-receiving tight end; a franchise running back; a big, speedy wide receiver with return ability; a dynamic safety, a shut-down cornerback; or a dominating defensive lineman. Whatever you do, say those who associate with Thompson, don't typecast the man. "Who's the best player?" he said. "If it's an offensive lineman, we'll take an offensive lineman. I've done it before. We draft based on long-term." The Packers come off a season in which they ranked 31st in red-zone efficiency, by far their poorest finish in more than a decade. The problem is that no tight end appears worthy of even the 25th to 30th pick, let alone the 16th, and the running back pool has almost no depth after Oklahoma's Adrian Peterson and California's Marshawn Lynch. Perhaps Thompson would entertain thoughts of trading up for Peterson, projected as a top-eight pick, or even Lynch, who figures to be taken in the middle of the round if some character issues are resolved. Green Bay still needs a running back even if Ahman Green is re-signed before the start Friday of the unrestricted signing period. "We're having good conversations with Ahman," Thompson said. "Whether anything gets done or not, I don't know. But that's free agency. It brings a little angst to your off-season." Thompson said there were "a couple of players" that he would like to select at No. 16. Several could be wide receivers, a position that ranks with safety and defensive end as the best in the draft. After Georgia Tech's Calvin Johnson, wide receivers such as Southern California's Dwayne Jarrett, Ohio State's tandem of Ted Ginn Jr. and Anthony Gonzalez, Tennessee's Robert Meachem and South Carolina's Sidney Rice all could warrant the 16th pick. Asked if he needed a player to fill one of the top three wide receiver berths, Thompson replied, "Not necessarily. But if it works out that way, that would be OK, too." The top three safeties appear to be Louisiana State's LaRon Landry, Florida's Reggie Nelson and Miami's Brandon Meriweather. It's unlikely more than one will be gone by No. 16, but all have first-round ability. "I think you can always use skill people, and I think all things would say we could use some more playmakers," Thompson said. "But it's way too early to start predicting that. I didn't even think about that fifth pick last year until we got through al the medicals and things like that. Some guys can fall off the world with a bad physical."

[Bretsky]

I'm going to be one of the only ones who votes for Ted Ginn...BUT, here is my reason.

He won't be a big time #1 WR, I know that...BUT

He will be a very good #2, or slot WR in the NFL.
He will be a KR/PR specialist. And he is faster than most people think. I think the fact he would come in as our #3 WR, and be a KR/PR guy for us. He's worthy of the #1 pick by us. I think he's a lot better than most think though.

At pick 16 I'm more than fine with Ginn.

[ND72]

I really am ok with taking Ginn...I think he can do a lot of things for the team that aren't just at WR. I can really see the plus to doing a lot of things with our #16 pick...and I wouldn't cry if any of my picks happen (Lynch, Ginn, or DB, just not a 5'8" thug DB).

[MJZiggy]

My gut tells me Williams. TT seems to like the small-school kids.

[ny10804]

I'm gonna go with Meachem. Great height (6'2 even) and size (214 pounds) (both numbers courtesy of the combine) for the west coast offense. Has great speed, 4.36. Can catch, didn't drop a ball in the all star challenge that aired today. And still has room to improve, being that he came out as a junior.

Dwayne Bowe would be next on my list, followed by Ginn, Rice, and Jarrett.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

All I see is people talking about is Wrs and Rbs, but if am TT I thinking about Amobi Okoye. He would complete our d-line and would be a force for at least the next ten years. Am actually older than this guy and I just turn 20 a couple months ago. Okoye can only get better with age and that is scary considering he's only 19. I want him over Lynch, Bowe, or even Landry in the first.

I'm hoping he's there when we pick, and I hope TT would take him.

[Lurker64]

All I see is people talking about is Wrs and Rbs, but if am TT I thinking about Amobi Okoye. He would complete our d-line and would be a force for at least the next ten years. Am actually older than this guy and I just turn 20 a couple months ago. Okoye can only get better with age and that is scary considering he's only 19. I want him over Lynch, Bowe, or even Landry in the first.

I'm hoping he's there when we pick, and I hope TT would take him.

Agreed 100%. He's the only player in this draft I'd trade up for.

[ND72]

All I see is people talking about is Wrs and Rbs, but if am TT I thinking about Amobi Okoye. He would complete our d-line and would be a force for at least the next ten years. Am actually older than this guy and I just turn 20 a couple months ago. Okoye can only get better with age and that is scary considering he's only 19. I want him over Lynch, Bowe, or even Landry in the first.

I'm hoping he's there when we pick, and I hope TT would take him.

I've loved this kid for a while now....just didn't know what TT's thoughts would be towards him.

[ND72]

Let me rephrase....If we go offense, I like Ginn and Lynch...if we go Defense, I think I'd prefer a DB, but I love Okoye...have all season long. He can play DE or DT.

[TopHat]

40-yard dash - Tight Ends Combine workouts:

Michael Allan - 4.67
Kevin Boss - 4.74
Scott Chandler - 4.81
Jonny Harline - 4.87
Clark Harris - 4.85
Zach Miller - 4.84
Joe Newton - 4.89
Greg Olsen - 4.47
Ben Patrick - 4.78
Anthony Pudewell - 5.07
Gijon Robinson - 4.83
Derek Schouman - 4.77

[Charles Woodson]

40-yard dash - Tight Ends Combine workouts:

Michael Allan - 4.67
Kevin Boss - 4.74
Scott Chandler - 4.81
Jonny Harline - 4.87
Clark Harris - 4.85
Zach Miller - 4.84
Joe Newton - 4.89
Greg Olsen - 4.47
Ben Patrick - 4.78
Anthony Pudewell - 5.07
Gijon Robinson - 4.83
Derek Schouman - 4.77


wtf Greg Olsen runs a faster time then Bowe...

[Bretsky]

Olson is separating himself as the only first round worthy selection.

I watched him on the college football all star competition.

Displayed great hands and caught the fast balls with ease.

Meecham was the only receiver who beat him in that category.

[Charles Woodson]

Also Top hat did sidney rice work out?

[Bretsky]

40-yard dash - Tight Ends Combine workouts:

Michael Allan - 4.67
Kevin Boss - 4.74
Scott Chandler - 4.81
Jonny Harline - 4.87
Clark Harris - 4.85
Zach Miller - 4.84
Joe Newton - 4.89
Greg Olsen - 4.47
Ben Patrick - 4.78
Anthony Pudewell - 5.07
Gijon Robinson - 4.83
Derek Schouman - 4.77


Thanks for posting the info

[Joemailman]

TT will take this guy in the 2nd round.

Aundrae Allison
WR, East Carolina

War Room analysis
Hands: Catches nearly every pass thrown his way, but tends to use his body to catch passes within his frame. Will jump to body catch slightly high throws. Shows the hands, coordination and body control to catch off-target passes. Grade: 8.0

Patterns: Is deceivingly good. Doesn't explode off the snap, but is quick in routes. Is smooth and fluid; gets in and out of breaks quickly to separate. Is nonchalant at times, but still gets open. Grade: 8.0

Run after catch: Is elusive and productive. Makes would-be tacklers miss in the open field. Shows the strength and balance to absorb a hard hit and keep on going. Runs through arm tackles. Grade: 7.5

Release: Gets moving quickly when unchallenged. Gets into his route quickly, reaches full speed and is on top of a cornerback in a flash. Does not use his hands well to escape jams; can be jolted and slowed. Must be much more aggressive with hands to gain a quicker release against physical cornerbacks. Grade: 6.5

Blocking: Gives a good effort, usually eliminating his man. Is not aggressive, but gets in the way on crack-back blocks. Grade: 6.5

Bottom line: Allison is faster than he appears and rarely gets chased down. He will move way up draft boards because he will run a great 40-yard dash in pre-draft workouts. However, he is not an elite receiver or a first-round pick. He fits best in the second round. In time, Allison should develop into a good No. 2 receiver who stretches the field.



Career statistics

Receiving Rushing
Team Rec. Yds. Avg. TD Rec./TD Att. Yds. Avg. TD
'05 E. Carolina 83 1024 12.3 7 11.9 7 67 9.6 0
'06 E. Carolina 62 708 11.4 4 15.5 5 8 1.6 0
Totals 145 17

[red]

Also Top hat did sidney rice work out?

yes he did, i had him running a 4.52 on his first run, and missed the second run. that was the unofficial time they gave on tv

[Partial]

I'm gonna go with Meachem. Great height (6'2 even) and size (214 pounds) (both numbers courtesy of the combine) for the west coast offense. Has great speed, 4.36. Can catch, didn't drop a ball in the all star challenge that aired today. And still has room to improve, being that he came out as a junior.

Dwayne Bowe would be next on my list, followed by Ginn, Rice, and Jarrett.

He is gonna be like Jwalk. Very, very good player.

[Joemailman]

meachem, after today

jarrett is ungodly slow if he can only run in the 4.7's

just like i came away today with negative thoughts about russell, i also have negative feelings now for ginn. there he stood right next to russell, with a cell phone hanging around is neck, and giant ear phones on the whole time.

this is the combine, even if you aren't doing anything, you should still listen and learn something, and leave your god damn phone in your room for a couple hours.


When did Jarrett run a 4.7? I thought he wasn't going to run because of a groin injury.

[red]

meachem, after today

jarrett is ungodly slow if he can only run in the 4.7's

just like i came away today with negative thoughts about russell, i also have negative feelings now for ginn. there he stood right next to russell, with a cell phone hanging around is neck, and giant ear phones on the whole time.

this is the combine, even if you aren't doing anything, you should still listen and learn something, and leave your god damn phone in your room for a couple hours.


When did Jarrett run a 4.7? I thought he wasn't going to run because of a groin injury.

i think they said during the telecast today that he was going to run and was getting ready to do it by working out at a camp, but was only able to get down into the mid 4.7's. so he decided not to run at the combine

i'm pretty sure they were talking about him, about 90% sure. they talked about a lot of guys today lol

[Partial]

Ouch, 4.7 is bad when you know the guy has been working on his speed, jumping and agility for the past two months. Damn.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Jarrett said in an interview on the NFL Channel today that he isn't running until USC's Pro Day.

[TopHat]

Jarrett said in an interview on the NFL Channel today that he isn't running until USC's Pro Day.

FF NEWS FROM COMBINE:

Jarret skips 40, would have posted over 4.7?

Dwayne Jarrett skipped the 40-yard dash at the combine today. Rumors are swirling that he was running the 40-yard dash in over 4.7 seconds at pre-combine workouts and that was the reason he didn't run today. If true, it would be a blow to Jarrett's stock. No one expected him to have one of the faster 40-times, but a 4.7 would be slower than any receiver at the combine. A slow 40-time would worry NFL scouts that he'll have difficulty getting separation in the NFL. He'll workout at USC's Pro Day, but the numbers he puts up there will be discounted by scouts. Pro Day workouts, especially USC's, are notorious for improving 40-yard dash times. They typically have faster tracks, and more favorable conditions then the combine.


FF SCOUT'S REVIEW OF RM:

Robert Meachem WR 6'3 210 Tennessee Jr. Meachem was a big time recruit in 2003 that injured his knee and redshirted his first season in Knoxville. His first season on the field in 2004 showed his big play ability. He caught 35 passes for 459 yards and four touchdowns. His numbers were similar as a sophomore, where he caught 29 balls for 388 yards and two touchdowns. Meachem broke out as a junior, finally living up to the hype he had coming to Tennessee. He was named to various All American teams after hauling in 71 passes for 1,298 yards and 11 touchdowns. Robert Meachem is the total package at wide receiver. He has an excellent frame. He is tall, but has a solid build and the strength to overpower corners. He has shown the ability to be an intermediate and red zone threat with his combination of size, strength, and athleticism. What makes him stand out though is his ability to move and make plays with the ball in his hands. Meachem has very good speed, and has the quickness to change direction and make defenders miss.
Meachem has had only one year where he did what was expected. He’s had issues dropping passes in the past, and has had problems believing in his own ability. He appeared to mature as a junior, and the result was an excellent season. He still will need to show that he’s ready to work and can sustain his confidence at the next level. This is turning out to be a very deep draft for wide receivers, and Meachem is a part of that. With his combination of talent, he could be taken anywhere in the draft. It may be tough to overtake guys like Dwayne Jarrett and Calvin Johnson, but once workouts come around, do not be surprised to see Meachem land somewhere in the first round.

[TopHat]

Also Top hat did sidney rice work out?


COMBINE REPORT DOES NOT LIST HIM FOR WRS.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Rice ran around 4.53... from what I can remember. Looked really fluid catching the ball though. I think he's fast enough and he has great hands and body control.

[Joemailman]

Here's another guy people may not have heard much of. Clowney is projected to go in 3rd round by Sporting News. He ran a 4.36 40 today which could move him up. TT surprised with Jennings last year, and may be looking for a speedster in rounds 2-3 this year.

David Clowney
WR, Virginia Tech

War Room analysis
Strengths: Is a good athlete with the hands to make difficult catches. Is aggressive going after the ball. Changes directions swiftly to avoid jams. Bursts past cornerbacks and separates quickly. Accelerates well after the catch, and can elude would-be tacklers. Shows the speed to turn short passes into long touchdowns. Doesn't get caught from behind. Runs routes with good bend and flexibility to make quick cuts. As a blocker, consistently works hard. Is tough and a fast healer, returning from appendectomy surgery quickly during '06 season.

Weaknesses: Is thin, raising long-term durability issues. Shows an adequate first step. Struggles to stay on his route against physical cornerbacks. Is inconsistent fighting for jump balls. Has trouble on deep routes; struggles to come back and fight through cornerbacks on underthrown passes. Occasionally runs upright, struggling to separate when he does.

Bottom line: Clowney was not as productive as the other top prospects because he played with bad quarterbacks his entire career. Clowney had a great week at the Senior Bowl and moved up draft boards. He should become a good NFL starter who can change games with big plays.

[The Shadow]

I'd rather have TT make the rumored deal for Moss, personally.
Driver, Moss, Jennings, Robinsin - what's not to like?

[Charles Woodson]

I'd rather have TT make the rumored deal for Moss, personally.
Driver, Moss, Jennings, Robinsin - what's not to like?

If we get moss i think we should cut robinson

[ND72]

I'd rather have TT make the rumored deal for Moss, personally.
Driver, Moss, Jennings, Robinsin - what's not to like?

I would personally kill TT myself.

[b bulldog]

I still can't believe that Breaston ran a 4.41/40. I never thought he had much speed.

[Bretsky]

I watched Meecham hall in passes today in a college all star competition that was taped a bit back. Very fluid hands that brought the fast balls in with ease. I'd love to see him in green n gold.

[Charles Woodson]

I still can't believe that Breaston ran a 4.41/40. I never thought he had much speed.

i have said that i like Breaston alot before... Nobody talks about him but ive watched a decent amount of Michigan games and hes been all over the feild. I think he could be a sleeper.

[Packnut]

I don't get caught up in 40 times for WR's. Speed in and out of the breaks are what count. What good is 40 speed for a WR if he can't break a jam? There are several factors that make a great WR.

If you've watched enough LSU games, after CJ, Bowe is the next best WR. He gets off the jam very well cause he's so strong. Also, more times than not, he will out-jump DB's for the ball. He would fit in very well as the #3 WR. Driver, Jennings and Bowe will at least give Favre some ammo.

[HarveyWallbangers]

After watching the combine a little bit, I'm leaning this way on my positional rankings:

QB
1) JaMarcus Russell
2) Brady Quinn
3) Drew Stanton
4) Kevin Kolb
5) Trent Edwards
6) Troy Smith

I'm only enamored with the top 3.

RB
1) Adrian Peterson
2) Marshawn Lynch

Not sure there's anyone special after these two. Irons, Hunt, and Jackson probably in the next group.

3) Kenny Irons
4) Tony Hunt
5) Brandon Jackson

WR
1) Calvin Johnson
2) Robert Meachem
3) Ted Ginn
4a) Dwayne Bowe
4b) Sidney Rice
6) Dwayne Jarrett

Bowe and Rice look very similar to me.

TE
1) Greg Olsen

Nobody stands out after Olsen.

2a) Zach Miller
2b) Scott Chandler
2c) Matt Spaeth

Hard to evaluate OL. I know Thomas is the real deal.

Guys I like defensively include Adam Carriker, Patrick Willis, Laron Landry, Reggie Nelson, Michael Griffin, and Eric Weddle (later in the draft). Marcus McCauley stands out athletically at CB. Except at S, the draft seems kind of weak defensively. Guys I'd avoid are Alan Branch, Leon Hall, Jarvis Moss, and Brandon Siler.

[red]

I don't get caught up in 40 times for WR's. Speed in and out of the breaks are what count. What good is 40 speed for a WR if he can't break a jam? There are several factors that make a great WR.

If you've watched enough LSU games, after CJ, Bowe is the next best WR. He gets off the jam very well cause he's so strong. Also, more times than not, he will out-jump DB's for the ball. He would fit in very well as the #3 WR. Driver, Jennings and Bowe will at least give Favre some ammo.

yeah, but if you can take two WRs, that can both break a jam. one runs a 4.3 and one runs a 5.0. the quicker one will get to the db or LB faster, and get away from him faster.

and this is a game of split seconds

when you see a qb, overthrow a wr on a deep route by a yard or two, if that WR was .05 seconds faster , he would have gotten to that ball

speed matters, not all the time, and not for all positions (does it really matter is a guard can run a good 40 time?)

if you take two guys with the same amount of talent, but run different times, i'm not taking the slower of the two

a difference of .3 = a half yard of difference every second. thats a huge difference in a game of inches

[woodbuck27]

meachem, after today

just like i came away today with negative thoughts about russell, i also have negative feelings now for ginn. there he stood right next to russell, with a cell phone hanging around is neck, and giant ear phones on the whole time.

this is the combine, even if you aren't doing anything, you should still listen and learn something, and leave your god damn phone in your room for a couple hours. . . . red

meachem, after today. . .red

That is fast and I like his size,talent and atitude.

just like i came away today with negative thoughts about russell, i also have negative feelings now for ginn. there he stood right next to russell, with a cell phone hanging around is neck, and giant ear phones on the whole time.

this is the combine, even if you aren't doing anything, you should still listen and learn something, and leave your god damn phone in your room for a couple hours.[/quote] . . . red

That is just the cultural,chillin' thing in process. :)

Never, give up your cool.

[Partial]

I don't get caught up in 40 times for WR's. Speed in and out of the breaks are what count. What good is 40 speed for a WR if he can't break a jam? There are several factors that make a great WR.

If you've watched enough LSU games, after CJ, Bowe is the next best WR. He gets off the jam very well cause he's so strong. Also, more times than not, he will out-jump DB's for the ball. He would fit in very well as the #3 WR. Driver, Jennings and Bowe will at least give Favre some ammo.

yeah, but if you can take two WRs, that can both break a jam. one runs a 4.3 and one runs a 5.0. the quicker one will get to the db or LB faster, and get away from him faster.

and this is a game of split seconds

when you see a qb, overthrow a wr on a deep route by a yard or two, if that WR was .05 seconds faster , he would have gotten to that ball

speed matters, not all the time, and not for all positions (does it really matter is a guard can run a good 40 time?)

if you take two guys with the same amount of talent, but run different times, i'm not taking the slower of the two

a difference of .3 = a half yard of difference every second. thats a huge difference in a game of inches

I would have no qualms with trading down in the first and landing Bowe or Meachem. If we can land an extra second I would think they could add another DE at the bottom of that round, and maybe have a shot at Merriweather with their original second?

[Partial]

I don't get caught up in 40 times for WR's. Speed in and out of the breaks are what count. What good is 40 speed for a WR if he can't break a jam? There are several factors that make a great WR.

If you've watched enough LSU games, after CJ, Bowe is the next best WR. He gets off the jam very well cause he's so strong. Also, more times than not, he will out-jump DB's for the ball. He would fit in very well as the #3 WR. Driver, Jennings and Bowe will at least give Favre some ammo.

yeah, but if you can take two WRs, that can both break a jam. one runs a 4.3 and one runs a 5.0. the quicker one will get to the db or LB faster, and get away from him faster.

and this is a game of split seconds

when you see a qb, overthrow a wr on a deep route by a yard or two, if that WR was .05 seconds faster , he would have gotten to that ball

speed matters, not all the time, and not for all positions (does it really matter is a guard can run a good 40 time?)

if you take two guys with the same amount of talent, but run different times, i'm not taking the slower of the two

a difference of .3 = a half yard of difference every second. thats a huge difference in a game of inches

If someone runs in full pads a 4.3 and the other runs a 5.0 in pads then yes the difference in huge. But, you do realize these guys are sprinting full speed straight ahead for the 40, and that is not at all remisicient of running a route (even a streak) and beating a DB.

That is quite the exagerration there with the times, also. This isn't an exact science and i'd argue someone might be a yard or two faster, and ultimately it will likely come down to who can beat his man for the ball, not who can outrun who.

Ahmad Carroll ran like lightning and look where he is. So does Ferguson. So did Justin Fargas two year ago. So did Mike Mamula.

40 time is the absolute most overrated element of the equation of a football player. By far and away.

The three things I would look at are college production, interview/tenacity, cone drill/agility drils.

The players that truly want the ball the most will get the ball more than the biggest, fastest, most athletic guy every day of the week. Lets not forget these are all freakish athletes. Some moreso than others, but give me an Aaron Kampman over a Mike Mamula every day of the week.

[red]

i'm not saying to draft a guy just because he's fast, he has to have talent too, which carroll lack any of

but if you have two evenly matched WR's like meachem an bowe, i'm taking the faster of the two

[Packnut]

I don't get caught up in 40 times for WR's. Speed in and out of the breaks are what count. What good is 40 speed for a WR if he can't break a jam? There are several factors that make a great WR.

If you've watched enough LSU games, after CJ, Bowe is the next best WR. He gets off the jam very well cause he's so strong. Also, more times than not, he will out-jump DB's for the ball. He would fit in very well as the #3 WR. Driver, Jennings and Bowe will at least give Favre some ammo.

yeah, but if you can take two WRs, that can both break a jam. one runs a 4.3 and one runs a 5.0. the quicker one will get to the db or LB faster, and get away from him faster.

and this is a game of split seconds

when you see a qb, overthrow a wr on a deep route by a yard or two, if that WR was .05 seconds faster , he would have gotten to that ball

speed matters, not all the time, and not for all positions (does it really matter is a guard can run a good 40 time?)

if you take two guys with the same amount of talent, but run different times, i'm not taking the slower of the two

a difference of .3 = a half yard of difference every second. thats a huge difference in a game of inches


My point is that the best WR's are not always the fastest. I've seen a lot of "speed" guys come out and struggle. Initial burst off the line and the ability to make your cuts are what matters to me. Walker is'nt a speed guy, but he makes more big plays than any burner in the NFL does. I'm just saying that 40 times for a WR does not define him and are over-rated.

[red]

walkers probably not the best example of a non speed guy

he ran in the 4.3-4.4 range

i think you can have so-so 40 speed at wr (4.5ish), and still be good if you're an exceptional route runner, like driver. but a guy that runs 4.7's is going to have a hard time doing much of anything in the pro's imo

if you have blazing speed you have an advantage, and you can get away with not being as crisp as some slower guys

[Charles Woodson]

I don't get caught up in 40 times for WR's. Speed in and out of the breaks are what count. What good is 40 speed for a WR if he can't break a jam? There are several factors that make a great WR.

If you've watched enough LSU games, after CJ, Bowe is the next best WR. He gets off the jam very well cause he's so strong. Also, more times than not, he will out-jump DB's for the ball. He would fit in very well as the #3 WR. Driver, Jennings and Bowe will at least give Favre some ammo.

yeah, but if you can take two WRs, that can both break a jam. one runs a 4.3 and one runs a 5.0. the quicker one will get to the db or LB faster, and get away from him faster.

and this is a game of split seconds

when you see a qb, overthrow a wr on a deep route by a yard or two, if that WR was .05 seconds faster , he would have gotten to that ball

speed matters, not all the time, and not for all positions (does it really matter is a guard can run a good 40 time?)

if you take two guys with the same amount of talent, but run different times, i'm not taking the slower of the two

a difference of .3 = a half yard of difference every second. thats a huge difference in a game of inches

If someone runs in full pads a 4.3 and the other runs a 5.0 in pads then yes the difference in huge. But, you do realize these guys are sprinting full speed straight ahead for the 40, and that is not at all remisicient of running a route (even a streak) and beating a DB.

That is quite the exagerration there with the times, also. This isn't an exact science and i'd argue someone might be a yard or two faster, and ultimately it will likely come down to who can beat his man for the ball, not who can outrun who.

Ahmad Carroll ran like lightning and look where he is. So does Ferguson. So did Justin Fargas two year ago. So did Mike Mamula.

40 time is the absolute most overrated element of the equation of a football player. By far and away.

The three things I would look at are college production, interview/tenacity, cone drill/agility drils.

The players that truly want the ball the most will get the ball more than the biggest, fastest, most athletic guy every day of the week. Lets not forget these are all freakish athletes. Some moreso than others, but give me an Aaron Kampman over a Mike Mamula every day of the week.

Yes the only speed that should matter is there football speed. Do they, or why dont they have a 40 time with pads on? And Partial in your previous post u asked if we could get merriweather.. I thought you hated this kid. :D

[red]

If someone runs in full pads a 4.3 and the other runs a 5.0 in pads then yes the difference in huge. But, you do realize these guys are sprinting full speed straight ahead for the 40, and that is not at all remisicient of running a route (even a streak) and beating a DB.



you do realise that even though we might look at a 40 time and obsess over it, coaches actually get a lot more out of a 40. they talked about this a lot yesterday on the coverage. they have marks at 10 yards, 20 yards, and 30 yards. every team has guys stationed at those spots with a watch. they can figure acceleration, they can see how fast you get up to top speed, and they can probable figure out your top speed from all that too

so even though us hacks might just focus on a 40 times, coaches and scouts actually do get a good amount of info out of it. so its not completely worthless like some think

lets get a list of all the guys we think are the top WR's in the game, and see if we can track down their 40 times. i know theres a lot of good receivers that run in the 4.5 range, but i'd like to see if any run in the 4.7-4.8 range like jarrett was suppose to have run in private workouts

[Partial]

If someone runs in full pads a 4.3 and the other runs a 5.0 in pads then yes the difference in huge. But, you do realize these guys are sprinting full speed straight ahead for the 40, and that is not at all remisicient of running a route (even a streak) and beating a DB.



you do realise that even though we might look at a 40 time and obsess over it, coaches actually get a lot more out of a 40. they talked about this a lot yesterday on the coverage. they have marks at 10 yards, 20 yards, and 30 yards. every team has guys stationed at those spots with a watch. they can figure acceleration, they can see how fast you get up to top speed, and they can probable figure out your top speed from all that too

so even though us hacks might just focus on a 40 times, coaches and scouts actually do get a good amount of info out of it. so its not completely worthless like some think

lets get a list of all the guys we think are the top WR's in the game, and see if we can track down their 40 times. i know theres a lot of good receivers that run in the 4.5 range, but i'd like to see if any run in the 4.7-4.8 range like jarrett was suppose to have run in private workouts

I would argue that if you clocked TO, Javon, Steve Smith, etc midseason, maybe one or two would clock in the 4.4s.

[Partial]

I don't get caught up in 40 times for WR's. Speed in and out of the breaks are what count. What good is 40 speed for a WR if he can't break a jam? There are several factors that make a great WR.

If you've watched enough LSU games, after CJ, Bowe is the next best WR. He gets off the jam very well cause he's so strong. Also, more times than not, he will out-jump DB's for the ball. He would fit in very well as the #3 WR. Driver, Jennings and Bowe will at least give Favre some ammo.

yeah, but if you can take two WRs, that can both break a jam. one runs a 4.3 and one runs a 5.0. the quicker one will get to the db or LB faster, and get away from him faster.

and this is a game of split seconds

when you see a qb, overthrow a wr on a deep route by a yard or two, if that WR was .05 seconds faster , he would have gotten to that ball

speed matters, not all the time, and not for all positions (does it really matter is a guard can run a good 40 time?)

if you take two guys with the same amount of talent, but run different times, i'm not taking the slower of the two

a difference of .3 = a half yard of difference every second. thats a huge difference in a game of inches

If someone runs in full pads a 4.3 and the other runs a 5.0 in pads then yes the difference in huge. But, you do realize these guys are sprinting full speed straight ahead for the 40, and that is not at all remisicient of running a route (even a streak) and beating a DB.

That is quite the exagerration there with the times, also. This isn't an exact science and i'd argue someone might be a yard or two faster, and ultimately it will likely come down to who can beat his man for the ball, not who can outrun who.

Ahmad Carroll ran like lightning and look where he is. So does Ferguson. So did Justin Fargas two year ago. So did Mike Mamula.

40 time is the absolute most overrated element of the equation of a football player. By far and away.

The three things I would look at are college production, interview/tenacity, cone drill/agility drils.

The players that truly want the ball the most will get the ball more than the biggest, fastest, most athletic guy every day of the week. Lets not forget these are all freakish athletes. Some moreso than others, but give me an Aaron Kampman over a Mike Mamula every day of the week.

Yes the only speed that should matter is there football speed. Do they, or why dont they have a 40 time with pads on? And Partial in your previous post u asked if we could get merriweather.. I thought you hated this kid. :D

He's a bad person but a steal in the second at our pick.

[Packnut]

walkers probably not the best example of a non speed guy

he ran in the 4.3-4.4 range

i think you can have so-so 40 speed at wr (4.5ish), and still be good if you're an exceptional route runner, like driver. but a guy that runs 4.7's is going to have a hard time doing much of anything in the pro's imo

if you have blazing speed you have an advantage, and you can get away with not being as crisp as some slower guys

My point about Walker is that he is not a speed WR. Yes, he ran a 4.3 but as the 2002 usa today scouting report states, he has no second gear so that 40 time is a bit mis-leading.

Negatives: Fast, but lacks that second gear to consistently escape on deep routes…Not that aggressive as a blocker, making passive attempts to seal off…Needs to develop a nastier nature, as he tends to back down from the physical battles…Seems to hesitate, taking time to regain his speed after making the catch…More effective in deep routes as he is not as quick to get into his short routes like the little receivers do.

[Partial]

walkers probably not the best example of a non speed guy

he ran in the 4.3-4.4 range

i think you can have so-so 40 speed at wr (4.5ish), and still be good if you're an exceptional route runner, like driver. but a guy that runs 4.7's is going to have a hard time doing much of anything in the pro's imo

if you have blazing speed you have an advantage, and you can get away with not being as crisp as some slower guys

Plaxico Burress runs about a 4.7-4.9 I would think. Most Tight Ends including Tony Gonzalez and Tony Gates run probably about 4.8 and they have had a great deal of success in catching the ball.

It all comes down to playing the game to take advantage of what the player has to offer. If you have speed and can beat a jam, throw the deep ball and let the receiver catch it. If you have power and strength to break tackles, throw a button hook. If you are quick as a cat, throw a slant and shake and bake your way for some yardage. Every one of these guys are phenominal athletes with the rare one like Johnson who seems to have it all. You've simply got to take the player that you have and maximize them in a scheme.

Herman Moore was very, very successful and he was very slow. People thought Jerome Bettis was too slow but he is a sure-fire hall of famer.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think Burress is faster than that. He's not a speed demon, but I'd think he'd run at least 4.6.

[red]

plaxico jumped into my mind too right away as a guy who could be that slow

i'm trying to find a time for him

[Packnut]

I guess I should be more specific cause my posts are in relation to Bowe. Him running a 4.5 is not suprising or a negative. First off, he's a HUGE WR. He gets off the jam and has adequate acceleration and imo, runs very good routes. He will out-jump 90% of DB's and once he learns to really use his body, will have a big advantage over the smaller DB's in the league. A case in point is the bowl game against ND where he has 2 defenders on him and still comes down with a jump ball. I'd rather have a WR who runs a 4.5 and can do that rather than a guy who runs a 4.3. Most CB's in the league can match speed with WR's.

Please don't mis-understand me, the 40 time is one measuring stick. I'm just saying that for me, it's not the most important part of a WR.

[Partial]

more important than anything is the amount of fight they have. Give me a guy who wants to be the best and wants every ball more than the cornerback. He'll get it 9/10.

[Packnut]

If TT goes WR at 16, it look's to me like it's either Bowe or Meachem assuming both are there. I'd hate to be the one to decide this choice.

Meachem may have more up-side but how can you judge him on just 1 season? I guess Bowe is the safer pick, but Meachem might be the more explosive pick. I went back and looked at a few Tenn games that I had recorded and no doubt he is very impressive........

[Partial]

Maybe he could trade down to 22 and get Meachem then trade up in the second to get Bowe while still having a second 2nd rounder from trading down in the first, and use that on a DL?

Skeet.

[red]

i'm seeing a range of 4.5 to 4.65 for plax

i don't know if any of those are official though

[Packnut]

Maybe he could trade down to 22 and get Meachem then trade up in the second to get Bowe while still having a second 2nd rounder from trading down in the first, and use that on a DL?

Skeet.


After reading what everyone is saying, I have a gut feeling there will be a run on WR's in the middle of the 1st round. It's very possible that Bowe and Meachem will not last past 20. Damn, I wish this thing was tomorrow and not over a month from now! :lol:

[red]

i'm with you packnut

we might have a shot at meachem at #16 at this point. but i also think him and bowe would be gone by #22

[Packnut]

i'm with you packnut

we might have a shot at meachem at #16 at this point. but i also think him and bowe would be gone by #22


Hell, may-be we're way off and TT goes D! :lol: :lol:

[Joemailman]

Maybe he could trade down to 22 and get Meachem then trade up in the second to get Bowe while still having a second 2nd rounder from trading down in the first, and use that on a DL?

Skeet.


After reading what everyone is saying, I have a gut feeling there will be a run on WR's in the middle of the 1st round. It's very possible that Bowe and Meachem will not last past 20. Damn, I wish this thing was tomorrow and not over a month from now! :lol:


I think that's probably right. With the WR field being so weak last year, (I think only one picked in 1st round), a lot of teams will be looking for a WR this year. The post-CJ run will probably start at about #12 with Buffalo. That's why I've started to focus on some of the "second-tier" guys like Jason Hill.

[Zool]

I am firmly entrenched in the Anthony Gonzales camp. He might turn out to be nothing, but he sure looks and plays like a football player and not a track athlete.

[Packnut]

My sleeper WR of the draft- Jacoby Jones from Lane. May-be a project but can return kicks now.