So who thinks TT is actually doing a good job now?

[Tony Oday]

I do not see a lot of detractors of TT anymore. I see some disagreements but not the red hate that I saw at about this time last year :)

think he is going about it the right way now or if not how would you change what he is doing?

[Partial]

Well, I will give him credit for keeping his guys and front loading their deals. I won't give him credit for keeping us so far below the cap, and for his drafts just yet.

I hope he has a great draft this year, then i'll be a believer.

[red]

we're out of cap hell, and he seems to be doing a good job of keeping it that way. and this team is young and seems to be on the upswing. so i gotta give him credit for that

there are things from time to time that really piss me off about him though. like us losing our top 3 or 4 rb's or wr's and instead of signing someone who has a little talent to fill in, he goes for some guy thats never been drafted and only spent 2 days in someones camp.

that ticks me off

i'll hold off on calling him a genius until we win a big game against a good team, and make it back to the playoffs

[Packnut]

I think we'll have a very good indication of the answer to question with-in the coming weeks.

[mmmdk]

TT has done ok but he needs to draft better - too many misses and not enough playmakers. Third time (draft) lucky?

[Brando19]

Well I think the opposite. I think TT drafts really well...I just think the man sucks in Free Agency. We need to land a big un in the next couple weeks.

[gbpackfan]

TT has done ok but he needs to draft better - too many misses and not enough playmakers. Third time (draft) lucky?


What? TT's last draft was excellent. Along with Hawk and Jennings, it looks like TT fixed our O-line and we have some decent, not great, depth at the position.

The draft before that is so hard to read. A-Rod was the right choice but his grade is incomplete. Collins was a good pick and Underwood was playing lights out before his injury.

I think TT has drafted very well. He needs a PLAYMAKER on O this offseason I agree.

[pbmax]

Free Agency equals fools gold. Just ask the Redskins or Cowboys. Build from the ground up. Sign a big FA to fill one hole after we are playoff ready.


Well I think the opposite. I think TT drafts really well...I just think the man sucks in Free Agency. We need to land a big un in the next couple weeks.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Free Agency equals fools gold. Just ask the Redskins or Cowboys. Build from the ground up. Sign a big FA to fill one hole after we are playoff ready.


Well I think the opposite. I think TT drafts really well...I just think the man sucks in Free Agency. We need to land a big un in the next couple weeks.

Agree, plus theres are no big ones this year. TT needs have a big draft.

[mraynrand]

TT has done ok but he needs to draft better - too many misses and not enough playmakers. Third time (draft) lucky?


What? TT's last draft was excellent.

The jury is still out on his drafts. But the last draft had better be excellent, considering the draft position (#5 in every round) and giving away Walker for a #2. With an 8-8 record and an improving team, the Packers may not have a #5 pick for the forseeable future (that's good), so they have to get a lot from that draft, including a game-changer (hopefully Hawk).

[swede]

The first success we need in FA is to keep our own guys. Check Jenkins off that list. (yessss!)

Next sign Ahman to a realistic deal after he's had a chance to shop, but this is where TT will drive us crazy. He is way more likely to let AG be overpaid somewhere else than pay too much to keep him here. I think AG and TT are going to play a little game of chicken and I expect AG will test the waters and get offers. It would not shock me to see us lose AG because of the business end of the game.

Also, I'm hoping for a good TE in FA. That would probably be better than a drafted TE because there'd a better chance for good production in the first year with the Packers.

Sooo...

Jenkins = check

Ahman = probably check

Good FA TE = I'm hoping

[Chester Marcol]

I like what I see so far, but the jury is still deliberating for at least one more season. The first test I wanted to see passed was to raise the average talent level of the team. I think he did well with that. We were a pretty good mediocre team, maybe one of the best. :D

Now, the next test is 2 tiered. Continue upgrading the core through our young players improving and drafting some more diamonds in the rough. Secondly, I think it's time to start adding play makers. Like others have said, it didn't make alot of sense to spend a ton of many on super stars without the core being solid. Those type of players could have actaully harmed our development before things started to click last year. I feel we are close enough to find players with more short term benefits. Someone who can help this year and next. Just the fact of signing a playmaker won't be considered a success. We don't want a Owens situation. If TT lands a "Packer Person" or 2 thats a difference maker, I'll bump myself up to the 75 percentile in the satisfaction pie chart.

[MJZiggy]

I'm with you there, Chester, but didn't TT say in one of the articles (or at least it was implied) that this was the case. It will be very interesting to see what he does over he next couple of weeks. I have always thought TT was moving in the right direction. It's interesting to look back at FA and see some of the moves that everyone wanted but didn't work out and look at what the end result would have been. I, for one, wanted Arrington here. :oops:

[GBRulz]

I agree with alot of what Red said. I'm tired of signing Taco Wallace type players to fill our roster. I'm not saying break the bank, but I would like to see us a little more agressive with FA. Last year TT got involved too late. While I agree that the key to a good team is building through the draft, I think you need to compliment that as well with FA. Ron Wolf was a genius with that.

Sure we are out of cap hell, but we have 24 million to spend, let's get at least one playmaker for our offense this year!

[BooHoo]

Yes, let's spend some of the cap money and get a FA TE.

[Scott Campbell]

I don't know how to judge him yet. He's been busy getting out of the hole Sherman dug. I think he's done that pretty effectively. But now it's time to take that next step.

[Patler]

I agree with alot of what Red said. I'm tired of signing Taco Wallace type players to fill our roster. I'm not saying break the bank, but I would like to see us a little more agressive with FA. Last year TT got involved too late. While I agree that the key to a good team is building through the draft, I think you need to compliment that as well with FA. Ron Wolf was a genius with that.

Last year TT got involved too late? Manual was signed the first day of free agency and Picket was signed 4 days later. He tried to sign Vinatieri and a few others. How is that "too late?" Just because his most expensive deal, Woodson, was late?

I also think you have to separate the in season signings for injury replacements, as Taco Wallace was, from the off-season FA signings. During the season you are stuck with what happens to be on the street. In 2005 it was Taco Wallace and others. In 2006 it was Robinson and Holliday.

[Bretsky]

I agree with alot of what Red said. I'm tired of signing Taco Wallace type players to fill our roster. I'm not saying break the bank, but I would like to see us a little more agressive with FA. Last year TT got involved too late. While I agree that the key to a good team is building through the draft, I think you need to compliment that as well with FA. Ron Wolf was a genius with that.

Last year TT got involved too late? Manual was signed the first day of free agency and Picket was signed 4 days later. He tried to sign Vinatieri and a few others. How is that "too late?" Just because his most expensive deal, Woodson, was late?

I also think you have to separate the in season signings for injury replacements, as Taco Wallace was, from the off-season FA signings. During the season you are stuck with what happens to be on the street. In 2005 it was Taco Wallace and others. In 2006 it was Robinson and Holliday.


Does Manuel even count ? :wink:

[LL2]

I always felt too many were judging TT too soon. It's his first time being a GM. You need to give him at least 3-4 years. Wolf built a championship team in 5 years, and it looks like TT has some type of 5 year plan. This is evident in that half the roster last year was made of of rookies and 2nd year players. If the Pack finish 9-7 or 10-6 many will start to think he's a genius.

[b bulldog]

I love to see a team that is built via the draft and makes the ascension up the NFL ladder.

[GBRulz]

I agree with alot of what Red said. I'm tired of signing Taco Wallace type players to fill our roster. I'm not saying break the bank, but I would like to see us a little more agressive with FA. Last year TT got involved too late. While I agree that the key to a good team is building through the draft, I think you need to compliment that as well with FA. Ron Wolf was a genius with that.

Last year TT got involved too late? Manual was signed the first day of free agency and Picket was signed 4 days later. He tried to sign Vinatieri and a few others. How is that "too late?" Just because his most expensive deal, Woodson, was late?

I also think you have to separate the in season signings for injury replacements, as Taco Wallace was, from the off-season FA signings. During the season you are stuck with what happens to be on the street. In 2005 it was Taco Wallace and others. In 2006 it was Robinson and Holliday.

How easily one can forget about Manual. I guess he isn't exactly what I had in mind. However, if I remember correctly, TT was out of town or something for the first week of FA. that is what I mean by acting too late.

I don't care if it's injury replacements or FA, I'm just saying that about the only gripe I have about him is his inability to fill a void with known talent. I don't like to wait !!! 8)

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'd be cool with the same success in FA this offseason as last. Thompson plucked out two solid starters without hurting the cap down the line. Too bad he missed on Manuel. I'd love to get 2-3 solid starters out of FA this year. Maybe Ken Hamlin and Daniel Graham. In case people haven't noticed, the FA list was weak and there's been a shitload of players resigned and franchised. I can't say there's more than about 15 players that I'd be real happy to sign.

[The Shadow]

After TT took over, for the first time since Ron Wolf left, I am confident in the Packer's direction toward a championship.

[Bretsky]

I'd be cool with the same success in FA this offseason as last. Thompson plucked out two solid starters without hurting the cap down the line. Too bad he missed on Manuel. I'd love to get 2-3 solid starters out of FA this year. Maybe Ken Hamlin and Daniel Graham. In case people haven't noticed, the FA list was weak and there's been a shitload of players resigned and franchised. I can't say there's more than about 15 players that I'd be real happy to sign.


I was thinking the same thing; last year their was a number of players I'd have been elated to have.

The year the pickings are slim and the available money is plentiful. With the demand being high and supply thin, some of these guys will not be bargains.

[ny10804]

One thing I love about Ted, he knows how to manage the cap. Nearly every big contract he's made has been frontloaded, so each year we gain cap relief despite not losing any players through FA. For example, out of 15 million dollars over 4 years, Jenkins will be paid 6.8, meaning the last three years will average out to 2.73 million dollars, much less than the 4 year average of 3.75. For so many years, contracts were backloaded, but I sense that will begin to change, and more GMs will give TT-like contracts.

[Patler]

One thing I love about Ted, he knows how to manage the cap. Nearly every big contract he's made has been frontloaded, so each year we gain cap relief despite not losing any players through FA. For example, out of 15 million dollars over 4 years, Jenkins will be paid 6.8, meaning the last three years will average out to 2.73 million dollars, much less than the 4 year average of 3.75. For so many years, contracts were backloaded, but I sense that will begin to change, and more GMs will give TT-like contracts.

Just because he will be paid $6.8 million this year doesn't mean his cap number for this year will be $6.8 million. In fact, it appears clear that the cap impact in 2007 will be less than that. Some of what he will receive, about $6 million, is said to be a "roster and signing bonus". The roster bonus portion will count agaiinst the 2007 cap. The signing bonus portion will be counted against all four years equally.

[wist43]

Overall, I give him a passing grade...

On the plus side:

He's straightened out the cap mess he inherited from Sherman; he fired Sherman; he recognized that the defense was soft and weak, and brought in some tougher players; he's had one good draft; and he's had a modicum of success signing FA's (Woodson and Pickett).

On the negative side:

His first draft was less than inspiring (Rodgers can't play); he bolloxed up the Walker situation; he should have kept Wahle (and, yes, the money was there); he brought in MM who installed the philosophically flawed ZBS, which in conjunction with the tenants of the WCO all but ensures that the team has no chance at a SB until they find another Favre; and, instead of changing over to an aggressive/power type of defense, he stayed with the passive philosophy the Packers have had for the past 7-8 years.

Overall:

He righted a sinking ship, but in the end, he set the team up for long term medicrity with the philosophies he's installed on both sides of the ball.

[GBRulz]

Have there really been any teams in cap trouble over the past 2 years?

[cheesner]

Overall, I give him a passing grade...

On the plus side:

He's straightened out the cap mess he inherited from Sherman; he fired Sherman; he recognized that the defense was soft and weak, and brought in some tougher players; he's had one good draft; and he's had a modicum of success signing FA's (Woodson and Pickett).

On the negative side:

His first draft was less than inspiring (Rodgers can't play); he bolloxed up the Walker situation; he should have kept Wahle (and, yes, the money was there); he brought in MM who installed the philosophically flawed ZBS, which in conjunction with the tenants of the WCO all but ensures that the team has no chance at a SB until they find another Favre; and, instead of changing over to an aggressive/power type of defense, he stayed with the passive philosophy the Packers have had for the past 7-8 years.

Overall:

He righted a sinking ship, but in the end, he set the team up for long term medicrity with the philosophies he's installed on both sides of the ball.
Rodgers can't play - How do you know? He has spent very little time on the field. WHen he was on the field he looked okay. Not great - but none of the great players looked great early. Favre, Elway, Montana, Bradshaw, etc. all struggled early.

Bolloxed up Walker situation - How do you know what he had to work with here? He may have had no choice.

He should have kept Wahle - Okay, at $6M per year, we would not have carried over the salary cap by reworking contracts. We would right now have $7M in salary cap instead of $25M. Would we be better off now with Wahle? Talk about dooming us to mediocrity.

ZBS philosophically flawed - Denver and Atlanta seem to have success with it.

Finding another Favre - 31 teams have been looking for another Favre over the last 10 years or so. No one has found one yet.
Aggressive/Power Defense - matter of opinion on which is best

[BooHoo]

Sorry but I am not a Rodgers fan either. I know he hasn't had the opportunity to shine and has not gained any real experience sitting on the bench and holding a chart all game but I really don't think he was a good choice as first rounder. I believe time will tell his true value.

[wist43]

I am trying to take a more optimistic view...

If Favre plays next year, and TT has two solid offseasons... maybe.

After that, the post-Favre era - that's where my pessimism really kicks in... you, and everyone else for that matter, cite the Falcons and Broncos as successes - but I point to them as failures.

Denver won two SB's but they had Elway at QB; and, Atlanta's only shot at ever getting to a SB with their current system is to buy tickets.

Denver, Atlanta, and Green Bay can all be quasi-playoff teams with their current systems, but sans a HOF QB, they really have no shot to win it all.

Denver might be on the right track with Cutler though - not that he's a HOF QB, but he's got a lot of intangibles, and has a big arm.

Post-Favre era, the Packers can't play shut down defense, and given their smallish OL, and no QB to respect... looks bleak.

[retailguy]

Have there really been any teams in cap trouble over the past 2 years?

DING DING DING!!!! We have a winner.

Other than Tennessee, Washington & Oakland, things have been fairly straightforward for the past couple of years with the massive amount of new money coming into play.

Everyone credits TT for "straightening out a mess" that he inherited, however, he did it in ONE year by releasing or allowing the contracts to expire of THREE PLAYERS (Wahle, Sharper & Rivera).

Yes, massive trouble. :roll: Tennessee has been struggling for FIVE SEASONS, and have released OVER 20 PLAYERS in cost related moves, inclueding McNair, Samari Rolle, and Derrick Mason... (I'm sure I've left off a bunch of names...) One can hardly compare the "cap purge" that you had in Tennessee with the "hang nail" removal in Green Bay.

Give me a break. I'm so tired of the bullshit, uninformed opinions of IDIOTS I can hardly stand it any longer.... :wink:

[red]

great, now you guys got the old geezer all riled up

i warned you guys

[MadtownPacker]

Aggressive/Power Defense - matter of opinion on which is bestThats what I think is gonna be the best route to go also. If TT gets Moss he can then get a RB in rd 1 or 2 and spend of the picks on D.

[wist43]

Aggressive/Power Defense - matter of opinion on which is bestThats what I think is gonna be the best route to go also. If TT gets Moss he can then get a RB in rd 1 or 2 and spend of the picks on D.

Some people actually like the "prevent defense" too... some opinion, huh???

As for Moss, he'd be $9 mil against the cap - I think (not for sure though)... besides all of the behavioral baggage.

Want no part of Moss.

[Chester Marcol]

Aggressive/Power Defense - matter of opinion on which is bestThats what I think is gonna be the best route to go also. If TT gets Moss he can then get a RB in rd 1 or 2 and spend of the picks on D.

Some people actually like the "prevent defense" too... some opinion, huh???

As for Moss, he'd be $9 mil against the cap - I think (not for sure though)... besides all of the behavioral baggage.

Want no part of Moss.

A Moss trade would most definately include a rework in his contract. Not that he would make less, but would probably be reworked with an extension and turn salary into bonus money or better yet do like they did with Woodsen. That way if he does act up in a year or 2, no cap issue in cutting him. I say if they can work the contract to where it won't hurt us to cut him next year or 2, then let the moon set in Green Bay.

[cheesner]

Aggressive/Power Defense - matter of opinion on which is bestThats what I think is gonna be the best route to go also. If TT gets Moss he can then get a RB in rd 1 or 2 and spend of the picks on D.

Some people actually like the "prevent defense" too... some opinion, huh???

As for Moss, he'd be $9 mil against the cap - I think (not for sure though)... besides all of the behavioral baggage.

Want no part of Moss.
A finess defensive team (Indy) won the SB and the Power/Agressive defensive team (Bears) lost.

What was your point?

Every team has a prevent defense. It is very effective when used at the right time.

Again, What is your point?

[wist43]

Peyton Manning won the SB... the finesse D did just enough to not screw it up.

The power D that Manning beat, was the only reason the Bears were even in the game - although I did not, and do not, consider them a SB team.

My point is - if you don't have a franchise QB, you better have a power D/power running game that can carry you, ala Baltimore, SD, etc...


Again, GB has set themselves up on both sides of the ball, as to be dependent on having a HOF/franchise QB under center to have a chance at a SB. I think that's a long shot.

Would the Colts have won with Trent Dilfer, Jeff Hostetler, Doug Williams, Brad Johnson, Ben Rothliesberger, et al under center??? Of course not. Yet, all of those slugs won SB's on power teams.

[Merlin]

Peyton Manning won the SB... the finesse D did just enough to not screw it up.

The power D that Manning beat, was the only reason the Bears were even in the game - although I did not, and do not, consider them a SB team.

My point is - if you don't have a franchise QB, you better have a power D/power running game that can carry you, ala Baltimore, SD, etc...


Again, GB has set themselves up on both sides of the ball, as to be dependent on having a HOF/franchise QB under center to have a chance at a SB. I think that's a long shot.

Would the Colts have won with Trent Dilfer, Jeff Hostetler, Doug Williams, Brad Johnson, Ben Rothliesberger, et al under center??? Of course not. Yet, all of those slugs won SB's on power teams.

The Colts could have won with Joey Harrington with all of the talent they have on the OL, TE, WR and RB. Manning got the MVP for throwing a costly INT, causing a fumble and running away from it, almost under throwing a wide open Reggie Wayne and throwing check down passes. Seems below average for an MVP if you ask me. The main reason the Colts won the Super Bowl was Sexy Rexy. Manning = Over rated. "It's like having a coach on the field" my ass. A coach would never throw deep with a safety lurking over the top. A coach would never run AWAY from a fumble. A coach wouldn't be so scared shitless that he hit his check downs before even looking down field. Face it, the Manning is not the Colts, he is part of the team. If he would have lost, I wonder who he would have blamed? He sure as hell didn't play like an MVP and he all by himself almost cost them the game.

Give the Bears D some credit, they had Manning running around like a scared little boy. He can't handle the pressure, even when it's non-existent.

[wist43]

What, did Peyton sock ya in the eye when you were a kid???

Get a grip... Indy's whole team is about building around Manning. He makes the whole show go.

Even their defense is built with him in mind, e.g. speed rush/coverage guys b/c they know they're almost always going to be ahead, and teams will have to play catch up.

He and Brady are the two best QB's in the game right now.

[Partial]

Peyton Manning won the SB... the finesse D did just enough to not screw it up.

The power D that Manning beat, was the only reason the Bears were even in the game - although I did not, and do not, consider them a SB team.

My point is - if you don't have a franchise QB, you better have a power D/power running game that can carry you, ala Baltimore, SD, etc...


Again, GB has set themselves up on both sides of the ball, as to be dependent on having a HOF/franchise QB under center to have a chance at a SB. I think that's a long shot.

Would the Colts have won with Trent Dilfer, Jeff Hostetler, Doug Williams, Brad Johnson, Ben Rothliesberger, et al under center??? Of course not. Yet, all of those slugs won SB's on power teams.

The Colts could have won with Joey Harrington with all of the talent they have on the OL, TE, WR and RB. Manning got the MVP for throwing a costly INT, causing a fumble and running away from it, almost under throwing a wide open Reggie Wayne and throwing check down passes. Seems below average for an MVP if you ask me. The main reason the Colts won the Super Bowl was Sexy Rexy. Manning = Over rated. "It's like having a coach on the field" my ass. A coach would never throw deep with a safety lurking over the top. A coach would never run AWAY from a fumble. A coach wouldn't be so scared shitless that he hit his check downs before even looking down field. Face it, the Manning is not the Colts, he is part of the team. If he would have lost, I wonder who he would have blamed? He sure as hell didn't play like an MVP and he all by himself almost cost them the game.

Give the Bears D some credit, they had Manning running around like a scared little boy. He can't handle the pressure, even when it's non-existent.

Ok you are officially a moron. Joey Harrington could have won a super bowl with that talent. Laughable man, Ha!

[Partial]

Wist is right.

My god, Joey Harrington, I cannot get over it. I literally chuckled aloud in the comp. lab :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[KYPack]

.[/b]

The Colts could have won with Joey Harrington with all of the talent they have on the OL, TE, WR and RB. Manning got the MVP for throwing a costly INT, causing a fumble and running away from it, almost under throwing a wide open Reggie Wayne and throwing check down passes. Seems below average for an MVP if you ask me. The main reason the Colts won the Super Bowl was Sexy Rexy. Manning = Over rated. "It's like having a coach on the field" my ass. A coach would never throw deep with a safety lurking over the top. A coach would never run AWAY from a fumble. A coach wouldn't be so scared shitless that he hit his check downs before even looking down field. Face it, the Manning is not the Colts, he is part of the team. If he would have lost, I wonder who he would have blamed? He sure as hell didn't play like an MVP and he all by himself almost cost them the game.

Give the Bears D some credit, they had Manning running around like a scared little boy. He can't handle the pressure, even when it's non-existent.


Ah, No.

You did post this after the SB, & I thought it was post-game angst.

Peyton Manning played like a tough, experienced Pro QB in that game. you don't like the guy, OK. But that doesn't mean he didn't make the difference


Remember that play where he read the hot read and threw a TD pass in the SUPER BOWL!

Evidently not.

That's how it works, you get in position to play in the big game & your QB takes you home.

Peyton's play was the same as Brett's in our SB victory.

A hot read that made the team be in a position to win.

Your anti-Manning rap is total bullshit.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Manning was a part of the win. To say he's the reason they won, I don't know. Indy ran the ball very well with their finesse blocking schemes. Indy's finess, small, Tampa Cover-2 defense shut down the Bears offense. If you have the players, it doesn't matter what scheme you play.

[Charles Woodson]

[quote="HarveyWallbangers"]. Indy's finess, small, Tampa Cover-2 defense shut down the Bears offense. quote]


Wait were still talking about rex grossman right? I mean i gave all the credit to indys D but i mean we all know Rex is far from a good QB

[Tony Oday]

:jack:

[KYPack]

Manning was a part of the win. To say he's the reason they won, I don't know. Indy ran the ball very well with their finesse blocking schemes. Indy's finess, small, Tampa Cover-2 defense shut down the Bears offense. If you have the players, it doesn't matter what scheme you play.

Tony, I did participate in the Jack.

HW...

Was Peyton Manning the difference in that game?

Probably not the difference, but to say he played poorly or some kinda overrated is ridiculous.

He played well and his team were champs. Without Manning would the Colties have won the ballgame? I think they might have, but Manning had a solid ballgame.

Any anti peyton manning rhetoric is foolish, but i know, I hate all then commericals myself.

[MadtownPacker]

The SB came down to which QB could close the deal. When the bears where only down 16-22 in the 4th wrex had his chance to find glory but instead found another turnover. Similiar to Mcnugget having his chance to win his SB on the last drive. They both failed and I for one am thrilled.

[RashanGary]

Sexy Rexy unleashed the deep ball and Manning played it safe.

That was the difference.

[HarveyWallbangers]

The Super Bowl was a complete team victory.

[b bulldog]

Rex grossman and the Bears D were awful.

[Tony Oday]

BS Favre threw for 3 TDs and ran for one....oh wait thats in the next one ;)

[wist43]

In systems like the Colts and Packers run, the QB is everything... including the run game.

The Bears had to respect Manning, which in turn opened up the running game... in that sense, Manning is the difference merely by his presence.