IS IT TT TURTLE TIME OR EXCITING FREE AGENCY TIME ?

[Bretsky]

Out for market value
Packers to be low key in free agency
By BOB McGINN
bmcginn@journalsentinel.com
Posted: March 1, 2007

Green Bay - The unrestricted free-agent signing period swings into high gear today but the Green Bay Packers in all likelihood won't be swinging any major deals.

Ted Thompson, who enters his third off-season as the club's general manager, chuckled when it was facetiously mentioned that he loves jumping into free agency with both feet during the first weekend.

"I always do that," Thompson said with tongue planted firmly in cheek. "Make a splash."

As usual, the Packers figure to let the market declare itself for several days if not a week before they start making some moves.

Until the past two days, when almost 40 veteran players were waived throughout the league, the pool of free agents was tepid at best. The cuts certainly helped but this still looks like one of the most diluted groups in the 15 years of unfettered free agency.

"There's some guys that will be able to play roles," Thompson said. "Because of the new CBA, there's a lot of teams that are flush with cash, too. It will be an interesting time."

Before the release of 25 players Thursday could be calculated on the salary cap, the average amount of cap room for the 32 teams was $13.656 million. Only six teams had more room than the Packers, who were $21.2 million beneath their adjusted cap of $109.519 million.

The Packers certainly could join other teams in the bidding wars that are sure to unfold starting today. There are good players fitting some of their biggest needs, but Thompson would sooner lose a good player than pay what he regards as an exorbitant price.

New England's Daniel Graham, the No. 1 tight end, would be a major upgrade over Bubba Franks and David Martin. A ferocious blocker and solid receiver, Graham is on the move because the Patriots also have Benjamin Watson and David Thomas.

Seven or eight teams will be hot after Graham, but the Packers didn't even phone his agent.

Tight end Jerramy Stevens, who was drafted by Thompson in the first round for Seattle in 2002, also is unrestricted and could draw interest from Green Bay. But San Francisco's Eric Johnson, who had 82 receptions in '04 before running into injuries, isn't on Green Bay's radar screen.

Thompson also drafted safety Ken Hamlin in the second round in '03. He's a much better player than Marquand Manuel but the Packers never called on him, either.

Running back Kevan Barlow, who rushed for 581 yards in '05 for San Francisco when Mike McCarthy was the 49ers' offensive coordinator, has been on the street for 10 days but hasn't heard from Green Bay.

A source also said the Packers had expressed interest in Baltimore's Ovie Mughelli, the best blocking fullback. If, as expected, Mughelli lands a big contract from another team, the Packers might well turn to Justin Griffith, Atlanta's starter from 2003-'06.

In the meantime, 36-year-old William Henderson's future in Green Bay remains in limbo. Agent Butch Williams said the Packers had given him no indication if they want another year from Henderson.

[Cheesehead Craig]

It's a fairly underwhelming FA class. I'm fine with TT not going nuts with the cash.

[red]

yay

looks like another year for camp bodies filling our starter roles

would it really kill him to pick up the fucking phone and call some of these guys to see whats going on?

[Packnut]

yay

looks like another year for camp bodies filling our starter roles

would it really kill him to pick up the fucking phone and call some of these guys to see whats going on?

Not his style red. He's gotta build through the draft so he can tell everyone how smart he is. As long as he's around though, we'll have plenty of cap space EVERY year............ :lol:

[red]

i have a bad feeling we're going to be the youngest team in the nfl again next year, and the year after

[ND72]

I think Teddy did a nice job last off season with the free agents, and I'm ok with him taking a wait and see approach. I think if there is someone they really want, he'll be in talks with them. there's probably a lot more going on than some people think. Plus, I would NOT be surprised if Ted uses Fan Fest as a reason to bring some free agents in...show them all the idiots (yes, i'm on included) that pay for nothing.

[Bretsky]

yay

looks like another year for camp bodies filling our starter roles

would it really kill him to pick up the fucking phone and call some of these guys to see whats going on?


LMAO; as I was reading this I knew you'd be thinking the same thing as I was.

Would it have killed TT to pick up the dam phone last year to invite Will Weatherspoon to visit and/or Chris Hope to visit.

Anyways, my guess is we'll need to be patient again this year

[ND72]

You know there proably were some phone calls ted made, that'll we'll never know about, where the guys agent just said, we're not interested....and that's where it ended.

[red]

i mean honestly, we HAVE to upgrade some spots

going into next year with the same TE's and manuel at safety are not acceptable in my book. thos spots HAVE to be upgraded.


and there are very few guys available that would be an upgrade, and they will be in demand. he sits out the first week, he could loss those options. then we're up shit creek, because a rookie isn't going to come in his first year and do much

and now that it looks like we've let ahman go, we really have problems at RB. we need some talent there, even if we do draft a rb high, we'll still need more

[HarveyWallbangers]

It's a fairly underwhelming FA class. I'm fine with TT not going nuts with the cash.

It is, but would a few phone calls hurt?

[MadtownPacker]

Man you guys probably get impatient waiting in the drive-thru at McDonalds. I just checked ESPN and no moves have been made by any team so far. With all the extra cap room maybe GMs are just waiting to see who is gonna set it off.

[Joemailman]

Yeah, sure wish TT had signed LaCharles Bentley and Lavar Arrington on the 1st day last year. Charles Woodson and Ryan Pickett sucked. :roll:

[Fritz]

Yeah, sure wish TT had signed LaCharles Bentley and Lavar Arrington on the 1st day last year. Charles Woodson and Ryan Pickett sucked. :roll:

My thoughts exactly. Geez, if people crave giant free-agent splashes, they can always go over to a Washington Redskins board. Or maybe go back into the JSO archives and re-read about the big Joe Johnson signing.

[RashanGary]

That fullback sounds nice. Other than that, Bubba's play is really exaggerated and for us to accuse Manuel of all of those breakdowns is unreasonable. Woodson never made it in to an off season workout or practice that wasn't manditory and Harris was the same way. Collins was a second year guy and the only one at camp who played and Manuel was injured.

I'm not making excuses for the guy but the amount we pay for these FA's is not going to porportionate to how much they improve our team.

If a guy is there and he comes at a reasonable price, GREAT. If not, I'd say just filling our major holes is most important. It's interesting nobody mentioned full back. That might be the only position that we don't have a starting caliber player. If we just fill that one position, I'd be happy. Camp fodder like Jenkins and Ruvell Martin are just fine with me.

[RashanGary]

The Queens will probably dive in and get worse for it.

[Zool]

I want an aging superstar and I want him now!!!!

Oh wait...maybe I don't. I love that its assumed that Thompson and his staff never make calls to these guys.

So if he doesnt overspend to get the "name" FA everyone is pissed. But man, if he overspent and got the name FA, and that guy sucks (Joe Johnson, Hardy Nickerson) well then he's still a moron.

You cant really have it all.

[b bulldog]

I like building via the draft

[woodbuck27]

yay

looks like another year for camp bodies filling our starter roles

would it really kill him to pick up the fucking phone and call some of these guys to see whats going on?

Not his style red. He's gotta build through the draft so he can tell everyone how smart he is. As long as he's around though, we'll have plenty of cap space EVERY year............ :lol:

What in 'H' is he?

A banker or the General Manager of the Green Bay Packers?

He'd better get his hands out from beneath his ass. It's very :(

[retailguy]

i have a bad feeling we're going to be the youngest team in the nfl again next year, and the year after

I'm SO HAPPY we got Ted. He is just wonderful....and SO VERY truthful.

[woodbuck27]

i have a bad feeling we're going to be the youngest team in the nfl again next year, and the year after

I'm SO HAPPY we got Ted. He is just wonderful....and SO VERY truthful.

I'm recognizing that I'm a grumpy old man :) at this time of the Packer year. :oops:

I know. In Ted we all must TRUST. :?

[MadtownPacker]

You lil crybabys need back up off TT or we are gonna have to run paternity test to check if one of you is Tank's daddy. 4-12 to 8-8 with a chance at more wins this season is fine by me.

[pbmax]

Does everyone think that phoning an agent automatically gets you a visit? PFT had Steinbach's agent asking for an offer near $7 mil before he would schedule the visit.

Thomas I can see because of his position, his specialty and the premium money that demands.

But Daniel Graham? Don't we have a slow, blocking TE already sucking up cap space? C'mon.

Look at the teams chasing guys. They almost all stink (I include Denver in this list as all their free agent chasing, cap cheating ways has got them bupkus in the postseason).

I'd prefer no premium Free Agents, don't sign your own mediocre players to inflated, cap and tender mismanaged offers (see the usual suspects and Na'il Diggs) and draft well.

The Steelers have been doing this since 1992 and have one down year out of four, otherwise make the postseason.

Premium Free Agency is for suckers. The Reggie Whites of this day and age do not make it to FA. There was a recent article that recounted the Eagles TRYING to franchise tag Reggie before FA. They went to court and the court held that the CBA and the previous court ruling invloving Reggie and several other players were legitimate and tagging Reggie was prohibited.

Not happening anymore my friends.

[mmmdk]

I think TT is looking for a new couch; as in a piece of new furniture for seating :lol: Free agents to Green Bay? Nah, not as we speak but later I guess.

[imscott72]

TT is known for waiting a week or so to see how the market it. Can't blame him for that at all. Look at all the $$$ the Queens spent last year and what did it do for them? How bout the Skins? The only surprise for me so far is that we didn't get Ahman signed. I thought for sure we'd strike a deal before the FA period started. Now I'm a little worried about that position.

[mmmdk]

I think TT is looking for a new couch; as in a piece of new furniture for seating :lol: Free agents to Green Bay? Nah, not as we speak but later I guess.

I might add that TT probably is doing the right thing (in waiting) as TT picked up Pickett & Woodson in free agency late. Manuel he got quickly and got burned.

[pbmax]

Marvin Miller and, I think, Charlie Finley, recognized the effect that LIMITED free agency would have on negotiations. It would drives prices UP.

Miller while negotiating and having an Arbirator's ruling that the reserve clause could only be invoked ONCE, knew he did not want every player a FA at the same time. He used this as a bargaining chip.

Finley, I think it was him, suggested (some thought he was just being ornery) making them all Free Agents every year. He knew that would help to keep prices down.

For those Packer fans who are suffering heart palpatations during the opening of FA, I suggest repeating the following definition:

Free Agency is limited and gives leverage to the player. Players who hit the FA market have been cast aside from one team, and except for a few grievous errors, are not likely worth anywhere near the money that will be thrown at them, especially in the era of increasing cap numbers.

Free Agency is crack for General Managers and fans.

[woodbuck27]

Does everyone think that phoning an agent automatically gets you a visit? PFT had Steinbach's agent asking for an offer near $7 mil before he would schedule the visit.

Thomas I can see because of his position, his specialty and the premium money that demands.

But Daniel Graham? Don't we have a slow, blocking TE already sucking up cap space? C'mon.

Look at the teams chasing guys. They almost all stink (I include Denver in this list as all their free agent chasing, cap cheating ways has got them bupkus in the postseason).

I'd prefer no premium Free Agents, don't sign your own mediocre players to inflated, cap and tender mismanaged offers (see the usual suspects and Na'il Diggs) and draft well.

The Steelers have been doing this since 1992 and have one down year out of four, otherwise make the postseason.

Premium Free Agency is for suckers. The Reggie Whites of this day and age do not make it to FA. There was a recent article that recounted the Eagles TRYING to franchise tag Reggie before FA. They went to court and the court held that the CBA and the previous court ruling invloving Reggie and several other players were legitimate and tagging Reggie was prohibited.

Not happening anymore my friends.

Basically, you've nailed it.

TT went out and got Ryan Pickett relatively soon last season (who came around as the season progressed) and we all knew he liked Marquand Manual before free agency, even if we don't now.

He waited a long time on Charles Woodson for his ego to cool and now he seems a bargain for us.

Ted Thompson isn't going to change and that may prove a good thing. He certainly doesn't inspire the impatient Packer fan. :)

Still I really hoped he'd not test the market and Ahman Green. Re-signing Ahman Green is obvious to me.

[MJZiggy]

What if NOBODY jumps into the FA bidding pool? What if no one signs anyone?

[Zool]

What if a bear s**t's in the woods and no agents are around to make it the best one ever?

[red]

What if a bear s**t's in the woods and no agents are around to make it the best one ever?

LOLOLOLOL

[Packnut]

I really don't see the harm in picking up the phone and inquiring. I see no harm in scheduling visits with players and talking to them. Silly me, I thought that was part of a GM's job?

For those of you who think it's better to go into next season with "get burned deep" Manuel and a guy coming back from a serious injury with little playing experience as our saftey plan, GET REAL!

Thompson should have had meetings set up with at least 3 or 4 of the top safteys to at least to find out what the market is. It's his damn job people.

EFFORT- That's all anyone can ask for and as fans we have the right to demand it.

[MJZiggy]

I so remember typing this last year: how do you know he didn't?

[Packnut]

I so remember typing this last year: how do you know he didn't?


MCGINN stated TT has not contacted Hamlin's agent. This is'nt cloak and dagger stuff. It's usually in the press when players set up visits with teams.

[MadtownPacker]

TT is known for waiting a week or so to see how the market it. Can't blame him for that at all. Look at all the $$$ the Queens spent last year and what did it do for them? How bout the Skins?Whass up man?? Long time no post!

Agreed about the purple perps and the redsnyders. FA has done zero for them and they have been laying down major cash the last couple of years.

[Packnut]

TT is known for waiting a week or so to see how the market it. Can't blame him for that at all. Look at all the $$$ the Queens spent last year and what did it do for them? How bout the Skins?Whass up man?? Long time no post!

Agreed about the purple perps and the redsnyders. FA has done zero for them and they have been laying down major cash the last couple of years.

Yeah, but they made questionable moves. Almost 99% of the guys they signed had question marks about them. I don't think anyone is asking TT to blow cash just cause it's there. My approach is to go after ONE big name guy who can fix a position of need, in our case saftey. Then try to shore up some depth with a mid-tier guy who can add experience.

I think it's important to set parameters also. Signing 30+ year old guys is foolish. When you spend huge money, ya gotta make sure the player is focused and dedicated.

[imscott72]

TT is known for waiting a week or so to see how the market it. Can't blame him for that at all. Look at all the $$$ the Queens spent last year and what did it do for them? How bout the Skins?Whass up man?? Long time no post!

Agreed about the purple perps and the redsnyders. FA has done zero for them and they have been laying down major cash the last couple of years.

I've been around. Haven't had a lot of time to post. Busy with classes, work, kids, etc. This is my favorite time of the year, so I had to make time to make some posts.
I have faith in TT. He's cleaned up the Sherman mess nicely and if the price is right, he'll help us out in FA. No reason overpaying for expensive FA's that may lose their motivation once signed. (see Hunt and Johnson signings)

[imscott72]

TT is known for waiting a week or so to see how the market it. Can't blame him for that at all. Look at all the $$$ the Queens spent last year and what did it do for them? How bout the Skins?Whass up man?? Long time no post!

Agreed about the purple perps and the redsnyders. FA has done zero for them and they have been laying down major cash the last couple of years.

Yeah, but they made questionable moves. Almost 99% of the guys they signed had question marks about them. I don't think anyone is asking TT to blow cash just cause it's there. My approach is to go after ONE big name guy who can fix a position of need, in our case saftey. Then try to shore up some depth with a mid-tier guy who can add experience.

I think it's important to set parameters also. Signing 30+ year old guys is foolish. When you spend huge money, ya gotta make sure the player is focused and dedicated.

The FA period is a whole 12 hours old. Lets not blow our wad thinking TT should have made a major signing by now. No other team has either, which may mean more teams are being cautious this year to not drive up the market. I like it, and its about time.

[woodbuck27]

What if NOBODY jumps into the FA bidding pool? What if no one signs anyone?

Then we'll need more Burger Kings.

[HarveyWallbangers]

MCGINN stated TT has not contacted Hamlin's agent. This is'nt cloak and dagger stuff. It's usually in the press when players set up visits with teams.

Where was this? His latest articles don't mention anything about whether Thompson has contacted Hamlin's agent or not. There was a Press Gazette article that mentioned other players the Packers had not contacted, but Hamlin wasn't included in the list.

[pbmax]

Packnut, you claim there has been no effort. Evidence? Do you have TT's phone records?

Lack of visits might equal lack of reasonable demands. PFT has Thomas going to San Fran on Sat (then to NE) and getting offered $8+ million per.

I would love to see the pass rush bolstered. But at what price?


I really don't see the harm in picking up the phone and inquiring. I see no harm in scheduling visits with players and talking to them. Silly me, I thought that was part of a GM's job?

For those of you who think it's better to go into next season with "get burned deep" Manuel and a guy coming back from a serious injury with little playing experience as our saftey plan, GET REAL!

Thompson should have had meetings set up with at least 3 or 4 of the top safteys to at least to find out what the market is. It's his damn job people.

EFFORT- That's all anyone can ask for and as fans we have the right to demand it.

[pbmax]

To setup a meeting now means the market is what the player is asking. For that number to fall, it will take time.

A GM wouldn't last if he lied to the agents, said, "Oh sure we'll discuss a contract in that neighborhood" to get a meeting and then lowballed him or didn't put an offer on the table.

Use your common sense.


Thompson should have had meetings set up with at least 3 or 4 of the top safteys to at least to find out what the market is. It's his damn job people.

[pbmax]

McGinn/JSO had the following this morning (posted last night):


Thompson also drafted safety Ken Hamlin in the second round in '03. He's a much better player than Marquand Manuel but the Packers never called on him, either.

Doesn't explain why. My guess is he likes Underwood.

His three big signings last season were at positions were there wasn't talent and there wasn't anything on the bench (CB, LB, DT-NG(4-technique?)).

If he likes the youth at safety, then Hamlin isn't coming in unless the price drops.

[Packnut]

Look, this is'nt as complicated as some would make it. Instead of following blindly, keep an open mind.

Manuel was an easy mistake to recognize and TT made a mistake thinking wise. Even after the first season with Collins, we could see his value was a Butler type player. Put him in the box and let him blow up the run. As we've seen coverage is not his strength. Well hello, it's not Manuels either. So what was the sense in targeting a player that does'nt fit your need? Go back and read what was written about Manuel. No one mentioned coverage skills as his strength.

Now riddle me this, those of you who act like Thompson is all knowing. If you have a saftey who is not strong in coverage and you know you are going to start 2 rookie LB's and their weakness naturally is gonna be pass coverage, then would'nt it just be common sense to find a saftey who's best attribute is pass coverage? This is'nt rocket science my friends.

Now on to the present. Some claim it's early and why should TT be doing anything right? BULLSHIT! He should have had Hamlin here this morning and not let him leave without a contract. Offer Woodson type money.

Why Hamlin? First off, read his resume. Main strength is coverage and knows how to drop deep. Can cover a TE over the middle. Main negative? The off field injury. However, not a risk in my mind do to his coming back and playing this past season. Therefore, the risk is low. Bonus here is other teams may shy away.

Now, tell me that IF Jenkins is for real and Hawk and Popp improve as is only natural, that having Hamlin back there does'nt make us a top 5 or 6 D. The guy knows how to play deep and does'nt bite on PA like Manuel does. This one signing upgrades an area of weakness and Hamlin is young enough that along with Collins, your set up the middle for years to come.

I'm sorry guys, but this is'nt monopoly where the one who has the most cash in the end wins. Being prudent does'nt make sense in this market. You've got to spend and that's ok IF you target the right guy......

[Packnut]

Here's the scouting report on Hamlin from ESPN insider. Now tell me he's not a perfect fit for our needs.

Hamlin is a hard-hitting tough safety who is one of the best in the NFL in his skill set. He shows good football instincts and has a knack for playing the ball in the air. Hamlin also shows good range and recovery speed off the hash. He is also a smart player who is able to make the calls in the secondary and line up players in position to make plays. He is very good with run support and will step up and make contact on running backs. He is not afraid to lay a hit on receivers coming across the middle. Hamlin is a solid athlete who shows quickness, body control, and outstanding range. He has the ability to play both a traditional free safety and strong safety, but he is better suited as a free safety. Hamlin does a good job of getting in the box and is productive in his pass rush and blitzing. He is a very aggressive player who brings a lot of energy to his play. He is a solid cover guy who can roll up and play effectively over the slot receiver. He plays well in the Cover 2 package showing good turn and transition coupled with smoothness that allows him to turn and run with ease. Sometimes he stutters in his backpedal, but not enough to be overly concerned about. He is an impact player who will help any team upgrade and solidify its secondary. With his leadership and play, he will be a highly sought after player in free agency.

[HarveyWallbangers]

So, where's the link to the article that stated Thompson hadn't contacted Hamlin's agent?

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Offer Woodson type money.

He's good, but he's not that good. Do really think we should give a saftey coner money?!?!

[BallHawk]

Here's the scouting report on Hamlin from ESPN insider. Now tell me he's not a perfect fit for our needs.

Hamlin is a hard-hitting tough safety who is one of the best in the NFL in his skill set. He shows good football instincts and has a knack for playing the ball in the air. Hamlin also shows good range and recovery speed off the hash. He is also a smart player who is able to make the calls in the secondary and line up players in position to make plays. He is very good with run support and will step up and make contact on running backs. He is not afraid to lay a hit on receivers coming across the middle. Hamlin is a solid athlete who shows quickness, body control, and outstanding range. He has the ability to play both a traditional free safety and strong safety, but he is better suited as a free safety. Hamlin does a good job of getting in the box and is productive in his pass rush and blitzing. He is a very aggressive player who brings a lot of energy to his play. He is a solid cover guy who can roll up and play effectively over the slot receiver. He plays well in the Cover 2 package showing good turn and transition coupled with smoothness that allows him to turn and run with ease. Sometimes he stutters in his backpedal, but not enough to be overly concerned about. He is an impact player who will help any team upgrade and solidify its secondary. With his leadership and play, he will be a highly sought after player in free agency.

*drools*

[Packnut]

So, where's the link to the article that stated Thompson hadn't contacted Hamlin's agent?


Thompson also drafted safety Ken Hamlin in the second round in '03. He's a much better player than Marquand Manuel but the Packers never called on him, either.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=572372

[BallHawk]

Offer Woodson type money.

He's good, but he's not that good. Do really think we should give a saftey coner money?!?!

If it means avoiding seeing Manuel starting on Sundays, you bets.

[Packnut]

Offer Woodson type money.

He's good, but he's not that good. Do really think we should give a saftey coner money?!?!

No,I think we should watch blown coverages and WR's running free in our secondary like we did for the great majority of last season.

Sorry for the sarcasm, but I do not wanna go through ANOTHER season of that.

[Packnut]

I just don't understand for the life of me, why any sane logical thinking person would believe that Manuel is gonna get better. He's SLOW. Than ain't gonna change. As far as Underwood goes, this is even more perplexing. The guy had a serious injury. He's in-experienced. Coverage was not a skill in his rookie year. I can remember a few times cursing him out for getting beat.

Now, may-be he is or will recover from the injury. May-be he is very talented and can play saftey. Why count on may-be? Let's not also forget that injuries happen. What's wrong with having 3 solid guys at that position?

Ok, that's it for me. I'm getting all worked up over this. Time to kick back and relax..............

[imscott72]

So, where's the link to the article that stated Thompson hadn't contacted Hamlin's agent?


Thompson also drafted safety Ken Hamlin in the second round in '03. He's a much better player than Marquand Manuel but the Packers never called on him, either.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=572372

That article is dated March 1st. FA didn't start until the 2nd. Contacting agents prior to the FA period is tampering. You expect him to come out and say he called him?

[pbmax]

Everyone gets called prior to March 1st. Players have even made errors, talking about the contract before the FA period starts. The rules are supposed to prevent teams from speaking to players and agents about players under contract. But nothing practical cn prevent a team from calling the agent, discussing unrelated business (creating an alibi) and then discussing the player who is under contract. Tampering? Yes. But it been happening for years.

[imscott72]

Everyone gets called prior to March 1st. Players have even made errors, talking about the contract before the FA period starts. The rules are supposed to prevent teams from speaking to players and agents about players under contract. But nothing practical cn prevent a team from calling the agent, discussing unrelated business (creating an alibi) and then discussing the player who is under contract. Tampering? Yes. But it been happening for years.

I'm not saying it didn't happen. But don't expect TT to come out with a press conference telling us he contacted Hamlin's agent prior to the start of FA..

[pbmax]

Packnut, your logic on Hamlin.Manuel is fine. But the fact that he is one of the few players who meets the criteria you setup is the problem.

A very limited numbers of players that meet your need, and a lot of cash, and a lot of dumb front offices, means the player has all the leverage.

Now if Hamlin was a QB, pass rushing DE or shut down CB, then guess what, you might not have a choice.

But as TT and Wolf before him have shown, they aren't going to pay top dollar for a guard, LB or a safety. Unless you are LeRoy Butler. Hamlin's injury history doesn't help here.

Does that mean the Packers are going to miss on some good players? Yes.

Does that mean the Packers won't go to the playoffs? No.

Is Hamlin the difference between 8 and 11 wins? No.

If we were one or three players away, then why not.

But we are a year away at least, and we have a shortage of talent elsewhere more important than safety. WR, RB, next QB, backup CB.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Thompson also drafted safety Ken Hamlin in the second round in '03. He's a much better player than Marquand Manuel but the Packers never called on him, either.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=572372

I stand corrected. Like somebody pointed out. The article came out before FA began. We have no idea if Thompson contacted Hamlin's agent at 11PM last night. I'd be a little more worried if I knew he hadn't contracted anybody today.

[pbmax]

McGinn didn't even say he had an unamed source for this tip, so its REALLY unclear. And unusual.

But TT has been pretty consistently silent on these matters. Much more likely the agent or player were talking.



Everyone gets called prior to March 1st. Players have even made errors, talking about the contract before the FA period starts. The rules are supposed to prevent teams from speaking to players and agents about players under contract. But nothing practical cn prevent a team from calling the agent, discussing unrelated business (creating an alibi) and then discussing the player who is under contract. Tampering? Yes. But it been happening for years.

I'm not saying it didn't happen. But don't expect TT to come out with a press conference telling us he contacted Hamlin's agent prior to the start of FA..

[prsnfoto]

Packnut, your logic on Hamlin.Manuel is fine. But the fact that he is one of the few players who meets the criteria you setup is the problem.

A very limited numbers of players that meet your need, and a lot of cash, and a lot of dumb front offices, means the player has all the leverage.

Now if Hamlin was a QB, pass rushing DE or shut down CB, then guess what, you might not have a choice.

But as TT and Wolf before him have shown, they aren't going to pay top dollar for a guard, LB or a safety. Unless you are LeRoy Butler. Hamlin's injury history doesn't help here.

Does that mean the Packers are going to miss on some good players? Yes.

Does that mean the Packers won't go to the playoffs? No.

Is Hamlin the difference between 8 and 11 wins? No.

If we were one or three players away, then why not.

But we are a year away at least, and we have a shortage of talent elsewhere more important than safety. WR, RB, next QB, backup CB.

I respect your opinion on this and I agree with both you and Packnut to some extent. The two most glaring needs on this team are safety and TE or redzone WR if you spend a bunch of money on one and upgrade the other this team has a shot at the playoffs. I disagree we would have won the N.O.,Buffalo, and Rams games with Elmer Fudd at safety as opposed to MM. Granted other factors like a blindside fumble and dropped interceptions also were factors, but each of those games contained sveral huge plays over 40 yards without Manuel we win them all. I like what TT is doing but I think any GM who is OK with the status quo is not a good GM you always have to look for upgrades and you don't have to break the bank. Personally Graham is no better than Bubba but Johnson at a reasonable price makes sense. There are unbias guys who breakdown film every year I think McGinn wrote about it a month ago and Manuel and Barnett gave up the most plays over 2o yards on the team, I am willing to cut Nick a little slack for his bad wing and the fact this team virtually never played dime last year they left Barnett and AJ out to cover but that is MM trade he should be able to cover a WR or TE for christ's sake.

[Bretsky]

What if NOBODY jumps into the FA bidding pool? What if no one signs anyone?


Only way that happens is if the NFL shuts down.

Owners want to win; GM's want to win.

For many of them this is their Xmas

Sounds like TT is wating til after the new year; the best toys might be gone, but at least he'll get them at a discount.

I buy my Chritmas toys before Xmas because I want the best ones.

[MJZiggy]

Oh B! You can get Skinemax anytime. :roll:

[red]

Sounds like TT is wating til after the new year; the best toys might be gone, but at least he'll get them at a discount.

sorry kids i know you've been waiting all year for this day, but santa won't be here for another week

[Bretsky]

Sounds like TT is wating til after the new year; the best toys might be gone, but at least he'll get them at a discount.

sorry kids i know you've been waiting all year for this day, but santa won't be here for another week

For GB fans

Anybody ever hear the song


SANTA GOT RUN OVER BY A REINDEER

[Fritz]

"For many of them this is their Xmas"

Bretsky, it's their Christmas cuz they suck and have nothing else to look forward to. It's like Lions' fans who see the draft as the biggest day of the year - they certainly have little hope about the actual games, so they turn their attention to free agency and the draft as the actually, truly "important" parts of the year. I prefer to let them go crazy, then kick their butts come fall.