TURTLE ARTICLE- "DEEP POCKETS, SHALLOW PLANS"

[Bretsky]

Packers: Deep pockets, shallow plans
JASON WILDE
608-252-6176
jwilde@madison.com

GREEN BAY - With more than $20 million to work with under the NFL's $109 million salary cap when free agency began at 11:01 p.m. Thursday night, so much cash might have been burning a hole in the pockets of some general managers.

But not Green Bay Packers GM Ted Thompson.

"It's not in my pocket," Thompson said Thursday evening. "It's not my money."

Maybe not, but he does control how it'll be used. And while it's reasonable to think Thompson will continue to be prudent with his free-agent spending, don't assume he's the Ebenezer Scrooge of the NFL, either.

In 2005, his first year as GM, Thompson developed a reputation for disliking free agency, and the title has stuck with him, even though he signed cornerback Charles Woodson (seven years, $39 million), defensive tackle Ryan Pickett (four years, $14 million) and safety Marquand Manuel (five years, $10 million) last year. He also re-signed defensive end Aaron Kampman to a four-year, $21 million deal.

So is his anti-free agency rep accurate?

"No. It never was accurate. I've never operated that way," Thompson said. "People take what I say (about), 'The best route to building a team is through the draft,' as me not wanting to be involved in free agency. We spend an inordinate amount of time studying it and trying to figure out what to do in free agency.

"I just think sometimes we can all have the attitude that the grass is greener, when in fact it might just be painted grass."

That said, it would be stunning if the Packers got into the high-stakes bidding for top-tier names in what is considered a relatively weak free-agent class - Baltimore linebacker Adalius Thomas or Buffalo cornerback Nate Clements - though Pittsburgh linebacker Joey Porter, Minnesota cornerback Fred Smoot and tight end Jermaine Wiggins, San Diego wide receiver Keenan McCardell and New Orleans wide receiver Joe Horn were among those released Thursday.

Thompson seems more likely to let the initial flurry of expensive signings pass, then see what remains available.

"This first wave, you're kind of going off faith because you don't get any real contact (with them) before you might have to commit to something," Thompson said. "Clearly with the raised cap, there are more teams with more money to spend. So obviously that means - because of supply and demand - that guys will likely get elevated contracts.

"Obviously, money is a factor in this, but this is still a football team. You have to decide if a player is going to help your team and if he's going to fit into your locker room. It doesn't do you any good to spend money for the sake of spending money."

Thompson also believes in the keep-your-own approach of his mentor, Ron Wolf, which he demonstrated by re-signing defensive lineman Cullen Jenkins to a four-year, $16 million deal Monday.

The Packers have two priority free agents of their own - running back Ahman Green and tight end David Martin.

A league source at the NFL scouting combine last week said Green is seeking a three- year, $15 million deal. Given how much Green likes it in Green Bay - he's scheduled to appear at the annual Fan Fest next weekend, even though he's a free agent - one would think he'd give the Packers a chance to match any offer he received.

Asked if he was any more optimistic about Green's return, Thompson replied, "I couldn't tell you. I know that we are continually having positive conversations with his people, but you never know."

Green never has been a free agent, having signed a one- year, incentive-laden deal just before the market opened last year. His agent, Joby Branion, did not return a message Thursday night.

Gathering Moss Thompson kept with his policy of not commenting on the persistent rumors of the team's interest in Oakland wide receiver Randy Moss, but he didn't deny the team has talked to the Raiders about a possible deal.

However, Thompson did say the team wasn't actively shopping backup quarterback Aaron Rodgers. Profootballtalk.com reported the Raiders asked for a first-round pick for Moss, and the Packers countered with offering Rodgers. Rodgers, reached Thursday, said he had not been told he was on the trading block.

"All I can say is," Thompson said, "you shouldn't believe everything you read on the Internet."

[red]

that article buys TT another day

[GBRulz]

"It's not in my pocket," Thompson said Thursday evening. "It's not my money."

What a dumb fricken comment. I mean, seriously. We KNOW it's not your effin money, but it's your job to keep your best players here. SIGN GREEN

[falco]

TT is doing it right; you can see the amount of overpayment going on; by keeping his cap room Thompson can continue to lock up his key FA and add solid, if not game changing players. It all boils down to how he strikes in the draft.

That being said, I don't understand not giving Green what he wants. If Thompson didn't lock him up at 5 mil a year, he must plan on adding someone else for less money.

[Bretsky]

TT is doing it right; you can see the amount of overpayment going on; by keeping his cap room Thompson can continue to lock up his key FA and add solid, if not game changing players. It all boils down to how he strikes in the draft.

That being said, I don't understand not giving Green what he wants. If Thompson didn't lock him up at 5 mil a year, he must plan on adding someone else for less money.

I kind of agree

Keeping the cap room to lock up your own players is fine; if you are already there in terms of having enough talent to contend. The draft is most important; but TT can get us there a heck of a lot quicker if he effectively utilizes free agency.

How much better would we have been last year had TT signed Will Weatherspoon and Chris Hope rather than Manuel ?

I'd like to see more early aggressiveness this year.

B

[b bulldog]

mORE AGGRESSIVENESS??Who the hell should we overpay to put on the green and gold?? This crop of UFA's is very weak. Green is an iffy player to me, if he goes I wish him luck, if he stays, that will be fine.

[RashanGary]

Looking at what some of these guys are getting makes me realize how important it is to sign Barnett.

We do have the franchise tag which will keep him off the market but at the same time, he's a bargain at 6 years 40 mil when you look at this crap going on today.

I'd dump a bunch of money into Barnett up front and then see what I could do about FB and RB without going overboard. Just a patch untill the draft brings us long term fixes.

Leonard would be a great fit for this team.

[Bretsky]

mORE AGGRESSIVENESS??Who the hell should we overpay to put on the green and gold?? This crop of UFA's is very weak. Green is an iffy player to me, if he goes I wish him luck, if he stays, that will be fine.


OK, let's just stay put while the players come off the board

[b bulldog]

I'm fine with it. Most of these players are good and are way overpaid. TT was called every name in the book last year at this time and look how much we improved.

[RashanGary]

Pay Barnett now before he gets to the open market. He will get a shit load if we wait.

[Bretsky]

I'm fine with it. Most of these players are good and are way overpaid. TT was called every name in the book last year at this time and look how much we improved.


Breaking down last year, TT came out at the start and signed a chump and a champ.


Then he sat on his ass while many young players we could have been pursuing to add to our win total came off the board.

Then, when we had a ridiculous amount of cap money left, TT made another great signing....but frontloaded it to use up a strong % of cap space last year.

I did not and still don't like that strategy.

TT is a great drafter and as a GM I like him overall for that; but last year he didn't have the foresight to see how fast free agency was going to work r he chose not to see the pattern.

There is a ton of cap money out there this year and players will get what you consider to be overpaid. Some will work and some will not. But you don't improve by not joining in and playing by the new rules.

[b bulldog]

We improved last season by waiting for the rush to conclude and than jumping in and signing some solid players. The same will happen this season.

[Bretsky]

We improved last season by waiting for the rush to conclude and than jumping in and signing some solid players. The same will happen this season.


Can you reiterate on this ? We singed Manuel and Pickett very early in March.

I'm confused as to who we signed after waiting for the rush to conclude.


Later in free agency we grabbed Ben Taylor, who did nothing for us
and Charles Woodson, who we grossly frontloaded to use up cap space

Am I missing a bunch ?

[b bulldog]

The rush imo is the first few days of signings. Who did we sign last year within the first three or four days of signings, can you please tell me who?

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'm with both of you guys in a way. If it works out, I'm on bulldog's side. I also understand the angst from Bretsky right now.

[RashanGary]

We improved last season by waiting for the rush to conclude and than jumping in and signing some solid players. The same will happen this season.

Very true adn we still had 25 million to spend this season. Thompson is getting alot of bang for his buck and if he contineus to draft well, we'll have a hard time just keeping our own even at teh RFA discounts. There is no reason to risk the future for very slight improvement now.

[Bretsky]

The rush imo is the first few days of signings. Who did we sign last year within the first three or four days of signings, can you please tell me who?


Manuel was signed almost immediately; Pickett a few days later.

Who were the late signings you are referring to ?

[b bulldog]

I agree and I hope people aren't wanting the team to go crazy in UFA just because Brett is back. This team is still not there but they are getting closer.

[Charles Woodson]

We improved last season by waiting for the rush to conclude and than jumping in and signing some solid players. The same will happen this season.


Can you reiterate on this ? We singed Manuel and Pickett very early in March.

I'm confused as to who we signed after waiting for the rush to conclude.


Later in free agency we grabbed Ben Taylor, who did nothing for us
and Charles Woodson, who we grossly frontloaded to use up cap space

Am I missing a bunch ?

Im with you B i really hate this whole approach of barely touching FA's

What i dont understand is people are going to get overpaid anyways, its just gana happen and Bull who do you want us to put our 20 million on, i mean i really would have liked some of the people. Idk i just i get to excited

[b bulldog]

I think all but Manual were signed after the crazy period ended. I remember everyone thought Pickett was going to reup with the Rams, than he came to GB, TT let him leave without a contract and we all thought he was gone. After a day or two after he left GB he signed. Woodson was late and the Arrington dweal was also late.

[Bretsky]

I think all but Manual were signed after the crazy period ended. I remember everyone thought Pickett was going to reup with the Rams, than he came to GB, TT let him leave without a contract and we all thought he was gone. After a day or two after he left GB he signed. Woodson was late and the Arrington dweal was also late.


Patler looked up this info last week and Pickett signed around a week after Manuel; he was hardly in the bargain range of time.

You are right in that Pickett had the Rams and another team (I believe the Bills) biding on his services. He left GB and I thought we'd lost him and then he signed. It would not be fair for you to say GB had a great bargain deal since they let FA cool down with that deal on Pickett.


Again, after GB won the price war for Pickett, they only added Taylor and Woodson.

TT found no bargains after the rush.

Many of us were up on TT after the Pickett signing and had faith he'd continue to try with all the cap space he had. But he didn't do that.

Then we were up in arms because he took a long period off and then signed Ben flippin Taylor and frontloaded the Woodson deal. .

[red]

pickett was actually in for an interview a day or two after FA began, but didn't sign until like a week later

lets not forget that the woodson signing only came after favre announced he was coming back. and many people think that TT made that move to make brett happy. it was a highly suspect signing at the time, and completely out of character for TT. big contract with a lot of money up front, to a guy who had barely played in 2 years and had question marks all over the place about his health and attitude. and he's an older guy.

i think TT might have gotten forced into that one

[HarveyWallbangers]

Pickett interviewed early in the FA period. He also interviewed with other teams. He made his decision later. Manuel signed immediately. Woodson is the guy we waited on--after trying to go after Arrington first.

[HarveyWallbangers]

pickett was actually in for an interview a day or two after FA began, but didn't sign until like a week later

Exactly.

[Zool]

Again, ask the Skins about signing FA's.

[Fritz]

Bretsky, why the anger over frontloading Woodson's deal? Do you want to wait three years and when Woodson's an aging, slow, useless corner owe him ten mil for the year? That's more of a Sherman strategy.

I still don't get the whole "TT doesn't spend enough money" thing. Woodson and Pickett played well, Manuel sucked. Who exactly do you want TT to overpay? Thomas is suited to a 3-4 defense, Nate Clements got a freakin' 80 million dollar contract, Stallworth gets hurt and has already played for how many teams, and Green is good but he gets hurt, can not handle a workhorse load, and is thirty years old. I hope they re-sign him but not for a deal that will have everybody bitching in three years when he's toast but will be owed five million for the year.

So who exactly should TT race out and sign that's going to put the Pack in the Super Bowl this year?

[MJZiggy]

Again, ask the Skins about signing FA's.

Their fans just love the FA first philosophy. They absolutely adore all the "important" signings and money that gets spent on them. [/sarcasm]

[Patler]

Manual signed on the first day of free agency.
Pickett signed four days later.

[Packnut]

Yep, every one of those GM's from all those teams signing free agents are all idiots. What the hell is wrong with them? Don't they know signing high priced free agents is wrong? How dare they spend millions of dollars in order to help their teams improve.

It's ok guys, like TT has stated, Manuel just needed a year to adapt. Coming to a strange city was hard on him, plus he was recovering from the injury thing. The problems in the secondary were not all his fault per TT.

Remember next season the first time ANOTHER WR runs free in our secondary or ANOTHER QB makes Manuel bite on PA, that your beloved GM did'nt waste on money on Hamlin or Grant.

Shame on the Saints for bringing Hamlin in for a visit today. What on earth is Payton thinking?

[b bulldog]

Nobody said that UFA signings were foolish just that the market as it is now is plain crazy and teams are spending much more than the players worth. Yep, lets sign players who haven't even made the probowl to contacts that make them the highest paid players at their positions, great idea!!!!! Maybe we can sign Hamlin for $8mil per season, I bet we could land him for that.

[b bulldog]

One more thing, we already reuped with Driver,Harris and Jenkins this offseason. I know DD was during the season but one could say that was a move that would have been done this offseason anyway. Those are three good moves and I bet that when it is done, we will again get at least one new starter from this crop of free agents.

[Packnut]

Nobody said that UFA signings were foolish just that the market as it is now is plain crazy and teams are spending much more than the players worth. Yep, lets sign players who haven't even made the probowl to contacts that make them the highest paid players at their positions, great idea!!!!! Maybe we can sign Hamlin for $8mil per season, I bet we could land him for that.

No, let's keep Manuel and have the same shit happen again. Let's keep all that money so every season we can be among the top 5 in cap money. Let's sit back and pray TT makes the right draft choices and wait another 3 years for them to develope. Let's just sit back and waste ANOTHER Brett Favre year. Oh wait, sorry I forgot that means nothing to you since before the season started you were one of Brett's biggest critics. How many "debates did you and I have over that?

Still, you were a real class act when you admitted to being wrong about Favre and admitted that I was right about him. Oops, my bad, you still hav'nt done that.............

[Packnut]

Oh yeah, let's see what else have I been wrong about? Back when the hiring process was going on, I was one of the most vocal about Payton being the guy TT should hire and how about that, after his rookie season Payton is HC of the year.

How many "debates" did I have about the my point of view that Walker would come back from injury in the amount of time that it took for him to do so and still be effective.

Now I'm advocating giving Woodson type money to Hamlin. What some of you fail to realize is that the importance of the saftey position has changed.
Why you ask? Because EVERY team wants to find a Brian Westbrook type back. EVERY team is looking for that TE who will stretch the middle. EVERY team wants that one deep threat WR. If you don't have a saftey who can cover, your dead in the water. THAT's why paying Hamlin is well worth it.

It's not that complicated. Most thought TT over-paid for Woodson and he did, but there was no other choice and in hind-sight, Charles was worth the money. Hamlin would also be worth the cash cause saftey is a need RIGHT NOW. NO matter how much Hawk and Popp improve. No matter how well Jenkins plays. It's all for NOTHING if we don't upgrade the saftey position NOW!

The money is there and the player is there. There are no excuses for doing NOTHING. Are the Saints in a position to offer Hamlin a HUGE shit-load of cash? I don't think so, yet he's going there for a visit. Why is'nt he coming to us for a visit???????????????????

[Fritz]

"Oh yeah, let's see what else have I been wrong about? Back when the hiring process was going on, I was one of the most vocal about Payton being the guy TT should hire and how about that, after his rookie season Payton is HC of the year.

How many "debates" did I have about the my point of view that Walker would come back from injury in the amount of time that it took for him to do so and still be effective."

All bow down to the mighty Packnut. Sees all, knows all.

Hail Packnut!

[ahaha]

I agree with some on here about the changing importance of the safety position. If I had my choice, I'd rather have a Dawkins, Reed, or Polamao, than a shutdown corner. I was big on Huff last year, and would love it if the Pack got Landrey. But, what's up with the boner for Hamlin? He seems like a desperate choice to fill a weakness. I watched a number of Seahawk games last year, and that secondary looked awful. Hamlin wasn't exactly standing out. Plus, there's the concussion concerns. Is there something I don't see? Is this guy worth a big-money contract?

[b bulldog]

One more thing, Payton had much,much more talent in NO than Mc had in GB. MC did a fine job and so did Payton. I don't think Payton wouldd have done any better than MM in GB. :lol:

[Charles Woodson]

My thing is that were we in the playoffs? No, so that means we werent doing something right. Im not saying to go out there and sign everyone but im saying to at least bring people in, i mean positions like TE and Saftey, to name a few, could definetely use some challenging for the starting postion

[b bulldog]

wHAT WAS i WRONG ABOUT IN REGARDS TO bRETT???

[b bulldog]

hAMLIN HAS BEEN TO HOW MANY PROBOWLS AND HOW MANY GAMES TO INJURY HAS HE MISSED :lol: :cry:

[b bulldog]

yOU WANT TO MAKE A SPLASH, MOVE UP IN THE DRAFT TO PUT YOURSELF IN a position to draft CJ or Peterson.

[Charles Woodson]

yOU WANT TO MAKE A SPLASH, MOVE UP IN THE DRAFT TO PUT YOURSELF IN a position to draft CJ or Peterson.


But we know TT isnt going to do that

[Bretsky]

Bretsky, why the anger over frontloading Woodson's deal? Do you want to wait three years and when Woodson's an aging, slow, useless corner owe him ten mil for the year? That's more of a Sherman strategy.

I still don't get the whole "TT doesn't spend enough money" thing. Woodson and Pickett played well, Manuel sucked. Who exactly do you want TT to overpay? Thomas is suited to a 3-4 defense, Nate Clements got a freakin' 80 million dollar contract, Stallworth gets hurt and has already played for how many teams, and Green is good but he gets hurt, can not handle a workhorse load, and is thirty years old. I hope they re-sign him but not for a deal that will have everybody bitching in three years when he's toast but will be owed five million for the year.

So who exactly should TT race out and sign that's going to put the Pack in the Super Bowl this year?

Regarding Woodsen, I'm not angry. I just choose to consider the situation before I to glorify the signing. TT could have done a lot more. I've listed players several times that signed what I considered to be fair deals that TT made no efforts for. Weatherspoon and Chris Hope for starters. Again I like TT; I think he's an outstanding drafter. But I will probably never like him as a FA recruiter.

Would it really hurt for TT to make some efforts right off the bat ? Bring some guys in ? Who do I want them to sign ?

For starters
Ahman Green ASAP, and I don't care if they overpay a bit anymore
One of Drew Bennett, Joe Horn, Stallworth, or Curtis.....all direly needed
Grant or Hamlin; again just make an effort to compete with other GM's
Hood; a player with upside like Al Harris when he came to Green Bay

these are just a few; I'd also suggest TT should be signing a starting caliber OG/OL such as Pettigoat or Coleman.........but I'm in the minority on that one.


Cheeers,
B

[Bretsky]

Manual signed on the first day of free agency.
Pickett signed four days later.


Thank You Patler

[MJZiggy]

I thought Green's agent said they were in constant communication and Horn's agent said yesterday that they had had contact.

[Bretsky]

One more thing, Payton had much,much more talent in NO than Mc had in GB. MC did a fine job and so did Payton. I don't think Payton wouldd have done any better than MM in GB. :lol:


Agree there; but NO had a better draft wise and also used free agency quite well last year.

[Bretsky]

My thing is that were we in the playoffs? No, so that means we werent doing something right. Im not saying to go out there and sign everyone but im saying to at least bring people in, i mean positions like TE and Saftey, to name a few, could definetely use some challenging for the starting postion


AMEN

[Bretsky]

hAMLIN HAS BEEN TO HOW MANY PROBOWLS AND HOW MANY GAMES TO INJURY HAS HE MISSED :lol: :cry:

GRANT

[falco]

It is sad when you search KFFL for the packers and all you find is a reference to Ahman Green heading to denver....

[imscott72]

I'm sticking to my story that I'm perfectly happy with the way TT is waiting this out. Let the market calm down instead of spending rediculous money on aging players. We will make some moves and fill some holes. I'd like to see the Moss deal done, pick up a safety, sign Green, and a solid guard. Just because we have the $$$ doesn't mean we have to spaz out and sign someone to a Clements type deal. I've always had faith in TT, and I still do.

[imscott72]

My thing is that were we in the playoffs? No, so that means we werent doing something right. Im not saying to go out there and sign everyone but im saying to at least bring people in, i mean positions like TE and Saftey, to name a few, could definetely use some challenging for the starting postion


AMEN

Thats not fair. We missed the playoffs on the last weekend of the year cause the Skins choked it off to the Giants. Give is the Rams, Saints, or the Bills game back we should of won and we're in. We were that close. Not only that but we we're playing as good as any team in the conference was at that time.

[red]

One more thing, Payton had much,much more talent in NO than Mc had in GB. MC did a fine job and so did Payton. I don't think Payton wouldd have done any better than MM in GB. :lol:

and what high priced big named free agent helped them the most?

drew brees

[Patler]

Yep, every one of those GM's from all those teams signing free agents are all idiots. What the hell is wrong with them? Don't they know signing high priced free agents is wrong? How dare they spend millions of dollars in order to help their teams improve.

It's ok guys, like TT has stated, Manuel just needed a year to adapt. Coming to a strange city was hard on him, plus he was recovering from the injury thing. The problems in the secondary were not all his fault per TT.

Remember next season the first time ANOTHER WR runs free in our secondary or ANOTHER QB makes Manuel bite on PA, that your beloved GM did'nt waste on money on Hamlin or Grant.

Shame on the Saints for bringing Hamlin in for a visit today. What on earth is Payton thinking?

I know you are trying to be sarcastic, but your statement is probably accurate. Time will probably show that many of the GM's are not very good. Professional sports is plagued with bad management. The NFL has been lucky. Their popularity has grown so much, and the league has done so much for the financial stability of the weakest teams that the truly incompetant just continue to blunder along, accomplishing nothing and being ecstatic with a winning season.

[Partial]

Sheesh, what an outrageous day of football.

[Charles Woodson]

For starters
Ahman Green ASAP, and I don't care if they overpay a bit anymore
One of Drew Bennett, Joe Horn, Stallworth, or Curtis.....all direly needed
Grant or Hamlin; again just make an effort to compete with other GM's
Hood; a player with upside like Al Harris when he came to Green Bay



Cheeers,
B

Browns | Team to meet with Hood
Sat, 3 Mar 2007 08:31:47 -0800

Mary Kay Cabot, of the Cleveland Plain Dealer, reports the Cleveland Browns will meet with free agent CB Roderick Hood (Eagles) Saturday, March 3.

[imscott72]

One more thing, Payton had much,much more talent in NO than Mc had in GB. MC did a fine job and so did Payton. I don't think Payton wouldd have done any better than MM in GB. :lol:

and what high priced big named free agent helped them the most?

drew brees

Colston being a monster rookie, Mr Bush, and Terrence Copper didn't hurt their cause...

[red]

yOU WANT TO MAKE A SPLASH, MOVE UP IN THE DRAFT TO PUT YOURSELF IN a position to draft CJ or Peterson.

that would mean moving up to at least the #3 spot

#3 spot = 2,200 points

our entire draft= 1,743.2

nest years number one draft pick is worth about half of what it would be this year

so for the 15th time in a week. it would take our entire draft this year and our #1 next year to move up to #3 to take CJ or AP. and theres no promise they'll be there at #3

we will not be trading up to take cj or ap. we don't even have any players with enough trade value to use to move up

[Bretsky]

My thing is that were we in the playoffs? No, so that means we werent doing something right. Im not saying to go out there and sign everyone but im saying to at least bring people in, i mean positions like TE and Saftey, to name a few, could definetely use some challenging for the starting postion


AMEN

Thats not fair. We missed the playoffs on the last weekend of the year cause the Skins choked it off to the Giants. Give is the Rams, Saints, or the Bills game back we should of won and we're in. We were that close. Not only that but we we're playing as good as any team in the conference was at that time.

We missed the playoffs because we were not good enough to beat the Rams or Bills or anybody with over a .500 record until the last game when the Bears didn't give their all out effort.

Not saying you are wrong; but bottom line is we were NOT good enough to be a contender and we need help at several positions.

[Bretsky]

One more thing, Payton had much,much more talent in NO than Mc had in GB. MC did a fine job and so did Payton. I don't think Payton wouldd have done any better than MM in GB. :lol:

and what high priced big named free agent helped them the most?

drew brees


GOSH THEY OVERPAID THAT GUY !! lol

[Charles Woodson]

My thing is that were we in the playoffs? No, so that means we werent doing something right. Im not saying to go out there and sign everyone but im saying to at least bring people in, i mean positions like TE and Saftey, to name a few, could definetely use some challenging for the starting postion


AMEN

Thats not fair. We missed the playoffs on the last weekend of the year cause the Skins choked it off to the Giants. Give is the Rams, Saints, or the Bills game back we should of won and we're in. We were that close. Not only that but we we're playing as good as any team in the conference was at that time.

Im not one to put down our play and yes we were "almost" in but if you look at the teams we beat and the teams we lost to, it really isnt impressive

-Wins: Detroit Miami Arizona, Minnesota San Fransisco Detroit Minnesota Chicago.

-Loses: Chicago, New Orleans, Phili, Saint Louis, Buffalo New England Seattle, New York.

Times we blew someone out (more than 10 points): 4 times, Detroit, Miami, Arizona, Chicago

Times we got blown out by someone (more than 10 points): 6 times, Chicago, Phili, Buffalo, New England, New york.

Its just that we had the secound easiest schedule and we won most of the easy games. But theres deffinetley a problem when you get blown out 6 times. Chicago was the only team that we beat that was over .500. I think that stat alone sums up our need for more talent. Yes i recognize that we are a building team, we werent suppose to win that many games last year and we deffinetly exceded my expectations for this team last year but as a building team we still need to add players that didnt perform well last year. TE and Saftey are the largest ones.

[esoxx]

One more thing, Payton had much,much more talent in NO than Mc had in GB. MC did a fine job and so did Payton. I don't think Payton wouldd have done any better than MM in GB. :lol:

and what high priced big named free agent helped them the most?

drew brees

Colston being a monster rookie, Mr Bush, and Terrence Copper didn't hurt their cause...

Yeah, but if Aaron Brooks was still pulling the trigger instead of Drew Brees they'd have finished maybe 8-8, probably worse.

[Charles Woodson]

One more thing, Payton had much,much more talent in NO than Mc had in GB. MC did a fine job and so did Payton. I don't think Payton wouldd have done any better than MM in GB. :lol:

and what high priced big named free agent helped them the most?

drew brees

Colston being a monster rookie, Mr Bush, and Terrence Copper didn't hurt their cause...

Yeah, but if Aaron Brooks was still pulling the trigger instead of Drew Brees they'd have finished maybe 8-8, probably worse.

People dont give enough credit to teams with good QB's and good supporting casts. People tried to say that the colts could have one with any other QB. The matter of fact is that the saints have Brees, they took a chance and it paid off greatly.

[imscott72]

My thing is that were we in the playoffs? No, so that means we werent doing something right. Im not saying to go out there and sign everyone but im saying to at least bring people in, i mean positions like TE and Saftey, to name a few, could definetely use some challenging for the starting postion


AMEN

Thats not fair. We missed the playoffs on the last weekend of the year cause the Skins choked it off to the Giants. Give is the Rams, Saints, or the Bills game back we should of won and we're in. We were that close. Not only that but we we're playing as good as any team in the conference was at that time.

We missed the playoffs because we were not good enough to beat the Rams or Bills or anybody with over a .500 record until the last game when the Bears didn't give their all out effort.

Not saying you are wrong; but bottom line is we were NOT good enough to be a contender and we need help at several positions.

Thats just it though. We weren't suppose to be any good last year. I remember we were all talking about another 4 win season when it started. We definitely exceeded expectations. We're not that far away.

Ok enough for now. Go Badgers!!!!

[imscott72]

One more thing, Payton had much,much more talent in NO than Mc had in GB. MC did a fine job and so did Payton. I don't think Payton wouldd have done any better than MM in GB. :lol:

and what high priced big named free agent helped them the most?

drew brees

Colston being a monster rookie, Mr Bush, and Terrence Copper didn't hurt their cause...

Yeah, but if Aaron Brooks was still pulling the trigger instead of Drew Brees they'd have finished maybe 8-8, probably worse.

People dont give enough credit to teams with good QB's and good supporting casts. People tried to say that the colts could have one with any other QB. The matter of fact is that the saints have Brees, they took a chance and it paid off greatly.

Brees was a gamble cause of the shoulder. If Brees was a lock to have a monster year, don't ya think the Chargers would have kept him? The Saints gambled with a lot of money and it worked out. Sometimes it doesn't.

[pbmax]

Its all about the choices you make. Sign Witherspoon and Hope as Bretsky is suggesting last year and there is no Woodson. Now Bretsky's defense has no AJ Hawk and Ahmad Carrol is your starter. Unless you think TT, M3 and Sanders wanted three Wills at LB.

Bretsky is right that those two players would have helped and were better at their position than what we have (assume Spoon takes Poppinga's starter spot for argument's sake). But there is no consideration of what happens after that.

Spoon and Hope make us, what?, maybe 9-7 or 10-6? First round playoff loss? And less cap room. Now you are a not so young team, barely playoff material, and have cap issues. Not insurmountable ones, but you're close.

Spoon and Hope are big cap numbers for a number of years. Pickett, Manual and Woodson can be replaced without much cap hit. Major flexibility when the team is ready.

The Pack are two years away, one at a minimum. Don't blow the wad until you NEED the difference maker at one or two positions to run the playoff table. After Sherman demonstated the perils of short term thinking and sign your own mediocrities, we shouldn't be so foolish to think the answers to a mediocre team are in FA.

[BallHawk]

Antwaan Randle El, Brandon Llyod, Adam Archuleta, Christian Fauria, Shaun Springs, Marcus Washington, Cornelius Griffin, Brad Johnson, Deion Sanders, Bruce Smith, Leveranues Coles, John Hall, Chad Morton, Santana Moss, Clinton Portis,

What do they all have in common? They are all players acquired by the Redskins through trade and FA since 2000.

0.

What does it have in common with the Redskins? It's the number of Super Bowls they won since 2000.

Look at the Patriots, look at the Colts, Look at the Steelers. They build through the draft

Free Agency doesn't win championships.

[Bretsky]

Its all about the choices you make. Sign Witherspoon and Hope as Bretsky is suggesting last year and there is no Woodson. Now Bretsky's defense has no AJ Hawk and Ahmad Carrol is your starter. Unless you think TT, M3 and Sanders wanted three Wills at LB.

Bretsky is right that those two players would have helped and were better at their position than what we have (assume Spoon takes Poppinga's starter spot for argument's sake). But there is no consideration of what happens after that.

Spoon and Hope make us, what?, maybe 9-7 or 10-6? First round playoff loss? And less cap room. Now you are a not so young team, barely playoff material, and have cap issues. Not insurmountable ones, but you're close.

Spoon and Hope are big cap numbers for a number of years. Pickett, Manual and Woodson can be replaced without much cap hit. Major flexibility when the team is ready.

The Pack are two years away, one at a minimum. Don't blow the wad until you NEED the difference maker at one or two positions to run the playoff table. After Sherman demonstated the perils of short term thinking and sign your own mediocrities, we shouldn't be so foolish to think the answers to a mediocre team are in FA.

IMO we could have signed Hope, Weathersppon, and Woodsen. We just would not have frontloaded Woodsen as much.

Not sure how many wins that would have led to; but going into next year we'd have fewer weaknesses to fill.

[Charles Woodson]

Free Agency doesn't win championships.

No but it sure does help

[BallHawk]

Free Agency doesn't win championships.

No but it sure does help

That's what Dan Synder keeps telling himself.

[Bretsky]

Free Agency doesn't win championships.

No but it sure does help

That's what Dan Synder keeps telling himself.

Easy to pick out the worst FA judge in the NFL for a comparison

It's about making the RIGHT choices as well as playing

[MJZiggy]

So who does it right, B?

[Bretsky]

So who does it right, B?


There is no exact right way to do it; it's silly to think there is. It's also silly to say getting involved in free agency aggressively is the wrong way to do it.

You garner success by

1. Drafting effectively (this is the most important)

2. Using trades and free agency to supplement the weakensses you can't fill in the draft.

[falco]

Drew Bennet to the rams...

[imscott72]

Drew Bennet to the rams...

The Rams have reportedly signed Drew Bennett to a deal that will pay him $4.5 million-per-season.

The 6-5 Bennett is exactly what coach Scott Linehan has been looking for in a slot receiver. He easily could've gotten a "starting" job elsewhere, but St. Louis will use more three-receiver sets to keep its best weapons on the field. Bennett, Isaac Bruce, and Torry Holt give the Rams arguably the best top three receivers in the NFL, and should help Marc Bulger solidify himself as a top-five, possibly top-two fantasy QB.
Source: Profootballtalk.com

Wow, if he's getting 4.5 mill, we won't sign Moss for less than 6+mill....

[HarveyWallbangers]

I actually thought he'd get more. I actually like him as a #2 receiver with a #2 receiver that can spread the field. Holt and Bennett could be nice--after Bruce retires.

[motife]

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B000270RCW.01-A25UEPKZCB0F3D._SS500_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i16LwOU-EKk&mode=related&search=

[Bretsky]

Drew Bennet to the rams...

The Rams have reportedly signed Drew Bennett to a deal that will pay him $4.5 million-per-season.

The 6-5 Bennett is exactly what coach Scott Linehan has been looking for in a slot receiver. He easily could've gotten a "starting" job elsewhere, but St. Louis will use more three-receiver sets to keep its best weapons on the field. Bennett, Isaac Bruce, and Torry Holt give the Rams arguably the best top three receivers in the NFL, and should help Marc Bulger solidify himself as a top-five, possibly top-two fantasy QB.
Source: Profootballtalk.com

Wow, if he's getting 4.5 mill, we won't sign Moss for less than 6+mill....


NOT a BAD signing at all.

[b bulldog]

A perfect redzone threat to compliment the other two Rams WR's.

[b bulldog]

My typing skills are verY suspect, hence the Caps and also the small cased letters in my posts. tRY TO DO BETTER BUT i'M ALREADY GIVING 110% :oops:

[Rastak]

More FA rumors....


From PFT.com

KERNEY VISITING THE 'HAWKS

Adam Caplan of Scout.com reports that defensive end Patrick Kerney will visit the Seahawks. Per Caplan, the 'Hawks are expected to make Kerney a lucrative offer.

The starting defensive ends in Seattle currently are Grant Wistrom and Bryce Fisher. Wistrom was ridiculously overpaid several years ago, and it looks like the Seahawks are ready to do the same for Kerney.

It had been reported that the Broncos were intent on signing Kerney before he headed to Seattle, but their efforts were unsuccessful.

[Joemailman]

We improved last season by waiting for the rush to conclude and than jumping in and signing some solid players. The same will happen this season.


Can you reiterate on this ? We singed Manuel and Pickett very early in March.

I'm confused as to who we signed after waiting for the rush to conclude.


Later in free agency we grabbed Ben Taylor, who did nothing for us
and Charles Woodson, who we grossly frontloaded to use up cap space

Am I missing a bunch ?

Manuel was signed on March 13, which I believe was either the 1st or 2nd day of free agency. Pickett was signed 4 days later on March 17. Don't know if you would consider Pickett part of the rush, or after the rush.

[Rastak]

We improved last season by waiting for the rush to conclude and than jumping in and signing some solid players. The same will happen this season.


Can you reiterate on this ? We singed Manuel and Pickett very early in March.

I'm confused as to who we signed after waiting for the rush to conclude.


Later in free agency we grabbed Ben Taylor, who did nothing for us
and Charles Woodson, who we grossly frontloaded to use up cap space

Am I missing a bunch ?

Manuel was signed on March 13, which I believe was either the 1st or 2nd day of free agency. Pickett was signed 4 days later on March 17. Don't know if you would consider Pickett part of the rush, or after the rush.


Joe, that's an ugly avatar you have there.....

:wink: :wink: