Question about zbs...

[packers11]

Why does ATL want to go to the "power system" so bad... I know a new coach and all, but still, have people found out the weakness of ZBS??

Also I know zbs works well for the running game, but does undersized lineman effect the passing game, especially when the other team starts blitzing???

[b bulldog]

New coach with his philosophy.

[packers11]

how about the pass protection part...??

[b bulldog]

The pass protection is a weakness in the ZBS philosophy from what I've read.

[packers11]

The pass protection is a weakness in the ZBS philosophy from what I've read.

then why won't teams just all do the big o-lineman and screw the zbs... I mean... LT doesn't run behind ZBS, neither Jamal Lewis getting 2000+ yards, or ahman green getting 1800...

I dont get the big deal about this overrated system (in my opinion)...

[b bulldog]

denver Broncos

[HarveyWallbangers]

Actually, there are tons of teams that use a ZBS at times, so it's kind of a misnomer. I don't think the teams that use the ZBS consider pass protection to be poor with the ZBS. ND might know more, but most teams use combination blocking in pass protection.

I'd say the biggest thing in the ZBS is the run blocking. You need agile OL that can get to DL and combo block. It's really an effective scheme in that you don't see a lot of negative rushing plays and big plays can be had in the scheme. I think the big drawback is that it's not a great short yardage scheme--just because your OL tend to be smaller and can get overpowered.

[ND72]

The pass protection is a weakness in the ZBS philosophy from what I've read.

then why won't teams just all do the big o-lineman and screw the zbs... I mean... LT doesn't run behind ZBS, neither Jamal Lewis getting 2000+ yards, or ahman green getting 1800...

I dont get the big deal about this overrated system (in my opinion)...


Um...I gotta disagree with something here. according to Marty Schottenheimer, 85% of all their running plays, are Zone plays. all 32 teams run a zone system. we all make way too big of a deal of the fact McCarthy calls it "the system"...towards the end of the year, I think you saw us running different plays other than just the Zone. The Fact is, we were even running zones when Sherman was here. We make too big of a deal of it.

[ND72]

Actually, there are tons of teams that use a ZBS at times, so it's kind of a misnomer. I don't think the teams that use the ZBS consider pass protection to be poor with the ZBS. ND might know more, but most teams use combination blocking in pass protection.

I'd say the biggest thing in the ZBS is the run blocking. You need agile OL that can get to DL and combo block. It's really an effective scheme in that you don't see a lot of negative rushing plays and big plays can be had in the scheme. I think the big drawback is that it's not a great short yardage scheme--just because your OL tend to be smaller and can get overpowered.


GB's pass protection was a lot different from what Atlanta was running when Mora was there. With Mora, they were running a lot of zone fake blocks with Vick rolling out...and a lot of slide protection. If you ever watch HS football, you'll see a ton of slide protection...it's retarded. (that's when all 5 lineman will slide as a unit in a certain direction, then the RB will take the "weakside" player)

[billy_oliver880]

Actually, there are tons of teams that use a ZBS at times, so it's kind of a misnomer. I don't think the teams that use the ZBS consider pass protection to be poor with the ZBS. ND might know more, but most teams use combination blocking in pass protection.

I'd say the biggest thing in the ZBS is the run blocking. You need agile OL that can get to DL and combo block. It's really an effective scheme in that you don't see a lot of negative rushing plays and big plays can be had in the scheme. I think the big drawback is that it's not a great short yardage scheme--just because your OL tend to be smaller and can get overpowered.


GB's pass protection was a lot different from what Atlanta was running when Mora was there. With Mora, they were running a lot of zone fake blocks with Vick rolling out...and a lot of slide protection. If you ever watch HS football, you'll see a ton of slide protection...it's retarded. (that's when all 5 lineman will slide as a unit in a certain direction, then the RB will take the "weakside" player)

Explain why it is "retarded"? Because it worked well or because it didn't?

[ND72]

Actually, there are tons of teams that use a ZBS at times, so it's kind of a misnomer. I don't think the teams that use the ZBS consider pass protection to be poor with the ZBS. ND might know more, but most teams use combination blocking in pass protection.

I'd say the biggest thing in the ZBS is the run blocking. You need agile OL that can get to DL and combo block. It's really an effective scheme in that you don't see a lot of negative rushing plays and big plays can be had in the scheme. I think the big drawback is that it's not a great short yardage scheme--just because your OL tend to be smaller and can get overpowered.


GB's pass protection was a lot different from what Atlanta was running when Mora was there. With Mora, they were running a lot of zone fake blocks with Vick rolling out...and a lot of slide protection. If you ever watch HS football, you'll see a ton of slide protection...it's retarded. (that's when all 5 lineman will slide as a unit in a certain direction, then the RB will take the "weakside" player)

Explain why it is "retarded"? Because it worked well or because it didn't?

it's "retarded" cause it doesn't work. In the Falcons/Giants game when Vick got BATTERED, that is what they were doing. And the Giants countered perfectly. When the Falcons "slid right"...the LT and the RB would be responsible for the Backside DE and LB....so the Giants would bring the backside LB, and the MLB on a stunt, and outnumber the protection. In a normal protection that GB would do, or a "man" protection...Guards woudl have DT, Tackles woudl have DE's, C would chip on a DT but watch for stunts by the LB's, and the RB's would be sent to a designated spot. All of those can be change to account for blitz's or tendancy. If you slide protect, you're giving yourself to "over" protect the side you are sliding to, but giving up the backside.

[ND72]

there are also zone pass plays that both Atlanta and GB ran. What that is, is you're running your zone, but faking it (obviously)....in this instance, probably ran 3rd/4th quarter, you expect the backside DE to completely buy the fake, and you leave him un blocked, because he basically blocks himself. GB ran that a few times with Driver cutting across the middle and a quick hit fake. GB also ran a few screens to the HB off of this look. Just all different ways to play games with the idiot DL guys. :lol:

[billy_oliver880]

Actually, there are tons of teams that use a ZBS at times, so it's kind of a misnomer. I don't think the teams that use the ZBS consider pass protection to be poor with the ZBS. ND might know more, but most teams use combination blocking in pass protection.

I'd say the biggest thing in the ZBS is the run blocking. You need agile OL that can get to DL and combo block. It's really an effective scheme in that you don't see a lot of negative rushing plays and big plays can be had in the scheme. I think the big drawback is that it's not a great short yardage scheme--just because your OL tend to be smaller and can get overpowered.


GB's pass protection was a lot different from what Atlanta was running when Mora was there. With Mora, they were running a lot of zone fake blocks with Vick rolling out...and a lot of slide protection. If you ever watch HS football, you'll see a ton of slide protection...it's retarded. (that's when all 5 lineman will slide as a unit in a certain direction, then the RB will take the "weakside" player)

Explain why it is "retarded"? Because it worked well or because it didn't?

it's "retarded" cause it doesn't work. In the Falcons/Giants game when Vick got BATTERED, that is what they were doing. And the Giants countered perfectly. When the Falcons "slid right"...the LT and the RB would be responsible for the Backside DE and LB....so the Giants would bring the backside LB, and the MLB on a stunt, and outnumber the protection. In a normal protection that GB would do, or a "man" protection...Guards woudl have DT, Tackles woudl have DE's, C would chip on a DT but watch for stunts by the LB's, and the RB's would be sent to a designated spot. All of those can be change to account for blitz's or tendancy. If you slide protect, you're giving yourself to "over" protect the side you are sliding to, but giving up the backside.

I see so something that could work at the highschool and maybe even the college level isn't going to cut it at the pro level. Sounds like something where the qb would have to get rid of the ball in a hurry.

[b bulldog]

As was said above and also as Larry McCarren has stated numerous times, every team will run some ZBS schemes and also some staight man schemes.

[pbmax]

Jags has said that there is a difference between zone blocking on a run play and their system. In the Gibbs/Shanahan system, they had four run plays that were the run game. Stretch right/left and Inside right/left.

But I agree, after the putrid output of the running game during the losing streak, we started to see guards pull again. It will be interesting to see if they go back to the four this year, with the young Oline one year older.

[KYPack]

Jags has said that there is a difference between zone blocking on a run play and their system. In the Gibbs/Shanahan system, they had four run plays that were the run game. Stretch right/left and Inside right/left.

But I agree, after the putrid output of the running game during the losing streak, we started to see guards pull again. It will be interesting to see if they go back to the four this year, with the young Oline one year older.

The new systems make it tough to communicate. The ZBS is the Alex Gibbs system and is the "Zone" of which we speak. The more traditional zone blocking system goes way back. The Lombardi Packers ran traditional Zone.

The Gibbs system is based on the four plays, but just as important are the 8 - 10 counters, which keep the D honest.

The NFL teams are incorporating the ZBS style in various forms. Haven't seen Baltimore run any of it yet, but most other teams do.

ND, have you seen the "Hybred ZBS" that KC runs?
The entire line slide steps, while facing the DL line.
I kinda liked it

[ND72]

Jags has said that there is a difference between zone blocking on a run play and their system. In the Gibbs/Shanahan system, they had four run plays that were the run game. Stretch right/left and Inside right/left.

But I agree, after the putrid output of the running game during the losing streak, we started to see guards pull again. It will be interesting to see if they go back to the four this year, with the young Oline one year older.

The new systems make it tough to communicate. The ZBS is the Alex Gibbs system and is the "Zone" of which we speak. The more traditional zone blocking system goes way back. The Lombardi Packers ran traditional Zone.

The Gibbs system is based on the four plays, but just as important are the 8 - 10 counters, which keep the D honest.

The NFL teams are incorporating the ZBS style in various forms. Haven't seen Baltimore run any of it yet, but most other teams do.

ND, have you seen the "Hybred ZBS" that KC runs?
The entire line slide steps, while facing the DL line.
I kinda liked it


Yeah, technically, it's not any different than the stretch that Indy runs, just a different technique of doing it. we tried it in college, but we were all to slow and stupid to do it right.

I saw someoen said that the "slide protection" thing "works at HS and college but not in the pros'....I would never run a slide protection in high school, or college. If you run a slide protection you need to loose the ball quickly, I'd rather have my lineman fire out and cut the DL guys down instead of slide protect. I did that very successfully at Winona Cotter for 4 years (cutting hte DL) and have the QB do a 3 step drop...always worked.

[prsnfoto]

Wasn't part of the reason to save money on linemen 6'4" 330 pound guys that can move are rare and the prices for guards were getting to be close to Tackles ala Hutch in Minnesota and now Lenard Davis(though he may play tackle)? Denver and Atlanta have taken scrap heap guys and made them into players.