Grow from Within

[Farley Face]

We have much riding on the development of a number of 'unknown' young players currently on our roster. In particular the bottom third of of roster. Guys like:

WR: Holiday, Bodiford
TE: Alcorn, Humprhey
RB: Pope, Beach
OL: Palmer, Bourke
QB: Martin

DL: Hunter, Jolly, Scandrett
LB: Randall, Goodwell
Secondary: Peprah, Bush

There are numerous others who we are all more familiar with: Blackmon, Rayner, Ryan, Underwood, Dendy, Blackmon, Moll, Hodge, Jennings, Spitz, Moll, Rodgers, etc. I'm sure there are more I've omitted.

So much is unknown right now it is an anxious time for Packer fans. I guess this is what it is like to watch a roster being rebuilt from the inside out.

I'm not lobbying for support one way or the other, but when TT and M3 speak of developing what we already have I can see their point. I hope they are putting their faith and future employment in the right group of guys.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Every team has young players like this. They don't rely on so many having to step up though. Thompson has to fill some of these holes from outside the organization. I'm trying to be patient, but I have to believe he makes 2-3 moves before the draft.

[Charles Woodson]

Is jolly still on the team? last i heard he was in oakland. I thought Hunter got cut a while ago too

Never mind wrong person.

[Joemailman]

Jolly and Hunter are still on the roster. I think you may be thinking of Dave Tollefson.

[gbgary]

growing from within is fine and good but letting cap space go to waste either by not signing help or resigning our own is stupid. get used to 8-8.

[Farley Face]

Every team has young players like this. They don't rely on so many having to step up though. Thompson has to fill some of these holes from outside the organization. I'm trying to be patient, but I have to believe he makes 2-3 moves before the draft.

Exactly. Bottom thirds of rosters turnover quickly as pro personnel types sift through the potential players. In our case we can't afford to miss on more than we hit if our only source of added talent is through organic growth. I'm a fan, so I'll maintain patience and guarded optimism, but they are betting on a group of players they better hope develops like they think it will.

[Patler]

... letting cap space go to waste either by not signing help or resigning our own is stupid. get used to 8-8.

When did the Packers let cap space go to waste?
They haven't the last two seasons and won't in 2007 either.

Some of you write as if the Packers get to the end of the season and have millions of dollars left that just goes to waste. That of course is absolutely false.

In 2005, by the end of the season they had used up all but about 1.7 million of their cap. That was pushed into 2006 via Nall's bonus. In 2006 by the end of the season they had used all but less than a million of their cap. Since their cap was 1.7 million higher than the standard cap because of the money from 2005, the Packers actually used more than the standard cap in 2006, since the surplus went down by about a million from 2005. The 2006 reamaining cap was pushed into 2007 reportedly via a bonus to Herron.

Not only has it not gone to waste, both of the last two seasons they have actually used up most of what was available.

[Patler]

Its not the bottom one-third that needs to improve, its the middle one third that needs to improve. That includes some of the starters and the principal back-ups. The bottom one-third just comes and goes. Its the top 36 players or so that really matter, not #37 thru #53. They are mostly irrelevant.

On defense the game is played with 6 d-line, 3 lbs and 6 dbs.
On offense, 6-7 O-line, 2 QBs, 4 RB/FBs, 2 TEs and 4 WRs.
A long snapper, a punter and a kicker.
The rest don't matter much. If you get down that deep at too many positions your season is toast anyway.

[Farley Face]

Its not the bottom one-third that needs to improve, its the middle one third that needs to improve. That includes some of the starters and the principal back-ups. The bottom one-third just comes and goes. Its the top 36 players or so that really matter, not #37 thru #53. They are mostly irrelevant.

On defense the game is played with 6 d-line, 3 lbs and 6 dbs.
On offense, 6-7 O-line, 2 QBs, 4 RB/FBs, 2 TEs and 4 WRs.
A long snapper, a punter and a kicker.
The rest don't matter much. If you get down that deep at too many positions your season is toast anyway.

My point is they seem to be relying on 37-53 to participate in the top 36 and make a meaninful contribution. Do you see a clear cut difference between the Packers 23-36 and 37-53? It all seems based on youth and potential (not necessarily a bad thing, but definitley our current reality)

[Patler]

Its not the bottom one-third that needs to improve, its the middle one third that needs to improve. That includes some of the starters and the principal back-ups. The bottom one-third just comes and goes. Its the top 36 players or so that really matter, not #37 thru #53. They are mostly irrelevant.

On defense the game is played with 6 d-line, 3 lbs and 6 dbs.
On offense, 6-7 O-line, 2 QBs, 4 RB/FBs, 2 TEs and 4 WRs.
A long snapper, a punter and a kicker.
The rest don't matter much. If you get down that deep at too many positions your season is toast anyway.

My point is they seem to be relying on 37-53 to participate in the top 36 and make a meaninful contribution. Do you see a clear cut difference between the Packers 23-36 and 37-53? It all seems based on youth and potential (not necessarily a bad thing, but definitley our current reality)

Well, I guess I do see a difference between your position and mine. For example, from your list:

Holiday and Bodiford are irrelevant. Improvement in Jennings and a draft pick, FA signing or (dare I say it) a healthy Ferguson are needed. Holiday, Bodiford or Martin should be 5th receivers, nothing more.

Palmer and Bourke are irrlevant. Improvement in Colledge, Spitz and Moll is much more important. Bourke (or someone) just needs to win a back-up position, not challenge to play.

Randall and Goodwell are irrelevant, neither will be around. Improvement in Poppinga and Hawk is needed.

Hunter and Scandrett(?) are irrelevant. I doubt either will make the final roster. Jolly is one that needs to improve, as you listed, along with Jenkins as a DE.

I agree that one of Alcorn or Humphrey needs to step up, along with Donald Lee or a draft pick. Bubba needs to return to the Bubba of the past.

Hopefully Peprah and Bush won't be around, or will be deep on the depth chart. Blackmon, Dendy, Underwood and a draft pick or picks are the important ones.

Pope, Beach or more likely a draft pick do need to step up. Or a summer pick-up (identity unknown) needs to re-establish himself as a capabale back.

Both kickers need to progress.

The Packers are not relying on the nobodies, except for a few. The team will improve from the development of the recent draft picks, and that is how it should be. There should be a natural and regular turnover of the roster.

[Farley Face]

Its not the bottom one-third that needs to improve, its the middle one third that needs to improve. That includes some of the starters and the principal back-ups. The bottom one-third just comes and goes. Its the top 36 players or so that really matter, not #37 thru #53. They are mostly irrelevant.

On defense the game is played with 6 d-line, 3 lbs and 6 dbs.
On offense, 6-7 O-line, 2 QBs, 4 RB/FBs, 2 TEs and 4 WRs.
A long snapper, a punter and a kicker.
The rest don't matter much. If you get down that deep at too many positions your season is toast anyway.

My point is they seem to be relying on 37-53 to participate in the top 36 and make a meaninful contribution. Do you see a clear cut difference between the Packers 23-36 and 37-53? It all seems based on youth and potential (not necessarily a bad thing, but definitley our current reality)

Well, I guess I do see a difference between your position and mine. For example, from your list:

Holiday and Bodiford are irrelevant. Improvement in Jennings and a draft pick, FA signing or (dare I say it) a healthy Ferguson are needed. Holiday, Bodiford or Martin should be 5th receivers, nothing more.

Palmer and Bourke are irrlevant. Improvement in Colledge, Spitz and Moll is much more important. Bourke (or someone) just needs to win a back-up position, not challenge to play.

Randall and Goodwell are irrelevant, neither will be around. Improvement in Poppinga and Hawk is needed.

Hunter and Scandrett(?) are irrelevant. I doubt either will make the final roster. Jolly is one that needs to improve, as you listed, along with Jenkins as a DE.

I agree that one of Alcorn or Humphrey needs to step up, along with Donald Lee or a draft pick. Bubba needs to return to the Bubba of the past.

Hopefully Peprah and Bush won't be around, or will be deep on the depth chart. Blackmon, Dendy, Underwood and a draft pick or picks are the important ones.

Pope, Beach or more likely a draft pick do need to step up. Or a summer pick-up (identity unknown) needs to re-establish himself as a capabale back.

Both kickers need to progress.

The Packers are not relying on the nobodies, except for a few. The team will improve from the development of the recent draft picks, and that is how it should be. There should be a natural and regular turnover of the roster.

All due respect, you just named improvement is needed from Hawk, Colledge, Jennings, Poppinga, Spitz, Jenkins. They, by your definition, are all already top 22 guys. I'm more focued on the others listed that will need to contribute as primary backups. Holiday, Bodiford, Palmer, Bourke are not irrelavant until and unless others are signed to replace them in key roles.

[prsnfoto]

Wow FF arguing with the great Patler careful you may be struck by lightning. It does seem this is the theme MM and TT are taking that they want to improve within either they see something we don't or they will both be unemployed because if they rely only on the draft odds are this team will not improve much unless these core players do improve ALOT! I am not saying they need to go after huge money FA but they have holes that need to be filled TT has said that there will be cuts by other teams where very good players will get cut for cap reasons that seems to be the only hope we have. With this new cap and teams spending un believable cash on FA's TT might be right I think it looks more and more each year that one third get big money one third get no money and some good vets get cut to make way for younger guys who get middle money(one third).

[Patler]

All due respect, you just named improvement is needed from Hawk, Colledge, Jennings, Poppinga, Spitz, Jenkins. They, by your definition, are all already top 22 guys. I'm more focued on the others listed that will need to contribute as primary backups. Holiday, Bodiford, Palmer, Bourke are not irrelavant until and unless others are signed to replace them in key roles.

Of course I named starters, I even said my list would include starters because it is the middle third of the roster, essentially spots 18-36. I even gave the breakdown of how the game really includes mostly just the top 36, and I applied numbers to the position groups.

The bottom third of the roster includes the game day inactives, the third QB, the 5th and 6th LB, the 5th WR, maybe even the 4th, the 3rd TE, the 4th safety, the 5th CB, the 4th guard, the 2nd center, etc. Most of these are at best just ST guys, some of whom make the team based on ST play even if they are not as good as someone else at their position. These guys change from year to year, and are not really counted on for the future of the team. Absent injury, they don't even play from scrimmage all that much.

The top 18 are mostly veterans who are what they are. You can't expect much improvement, and as they age you need to expect decline. The middle 18 includes the young guys, some of whom start, who are the building blocks of the long term future.

The rest come and go. Occassionally one emerges from seemingly no where, but the improvement of the team comes from improved play of the middle of the roster. The rest don't see the field enough to have that big of an impact.

[Patler]

Wow FF arguing with the great Patler careful you may be struck by lightning.

I guess I don't understand that comment. I haven't noticed a reluctance of people to argue with me. Heck, if they weren't disagreeing with me I wouldn't post nearly as much! :D :D

[Packnut]

Hey guys, try RECORDING a game once in a while and then go back and study it. Mentioning Dendy as a player to possibly count on is ludicrous. How many times does a guy need to get burned before the light bulbs go on? Sure he does'nt get holding calls like Carroll did but then again Dendy was never close enough! :lol:

[Patler]

Hey guys, try RECORDING a game once in a while and then go back and study it. Mentioning Dendy as a player to possibly count on is ludicrous. How many times does a guy need to get burned before the light bulbs go on? Sure he does'nt get holding calls like Carroll did but then again Dendy was never close enough! :lol:

I'm not suggesting you CAN count on him, but he is within the group that MUST improve for the team to be better. Either that, or he must be replaced, which is actually what I expect will happen this year. As the 3rd CB, he is within the middle third of the roster that in my opinion is the key. If he does not improve, or isn't replaced, team improvement is held back. If he does improve, the team will be better because he plays enough as the 3rd CB for it to make a difference.

[wist43]

Wow FF arguing with the great Patler careful you may be struck by lightning.

I guess I don't understand that comment. I haven't noticed a reluctance of people to argue with me. Heck, if they weren't disagreeing with me I wouldn't post nearly as much! :D :D

I'll argue with ya Patler... what do ya want to argue about???

Global warming... that's always a good one!!! :)

[wist43]

As for the topic...

Hunter and Jolly both have upside. I expect Jolly will be a regular part of the DT rotation.

At Safety, Underwood and Culver need to step up... I wouldn't be surprised if TT ignores the Safety position altogether in the draft. Both of those guys, when healthy, have shown flashes especially Underwood. Prior to getting hurt last preseason he all but had the safety spot opposite Collins locked up.

The rest??? Most of them are just a bunch guys... If one or two them steps up to be an occasional contributor from scrimmage - that's just gravy. 37-53 need to produce on ST.

[Patler]

I'll argue with ya Patler... what do ya want to argue about???

Global warming... that's always a good one!!! :)

Did you see the article circulating on the internet over the weekend, about a new video documentary addressing the gobal warming hoax? Apparently the points made are:

1. Scientific evidence does not support CO2 as a driving force for climate change.
2. CO2 has never driven climate change in the past.
3. Climate scientists advocate the "problem" simply to get research funding.
4. Jobs depend on there being global warming.
5. The paranoia over CO2 emissions harms third-world development, causing poverty and disease.

That should be enough to start a battle with someone,shouldn't it? :lol:

I think I will slink off to the side and duck!

[MJZiggy]

Yikes! House cleaning is suddenly looking appealing!!

[Patler]

As for the topic...

Hunter and Jolly both have upside. I expect Jolly will be a regular part of the DT rotation.

At Safety, Underwood and Culver need to step up... I wouldn't be surprised if TT ignores the Safety position altogether in the draft. Both of those guys, when healthy, have shown flashes especially Underwood. Prior to getting hurt last preseason he all but had the safety spot opposite Collins locked up.

The rest??? Most of them are just a bunch guys... If one or two them steps up to be an occasional contributor from scrimmage - that's just gravy. 37-53 need to produce on ST.

I think we pretty much agree. I look for Jolly and Underwood to contribute. I almost expect it, providing Underwood's recovery went well. I didn't see that much out of Hunter to think he will be a factor. I look for him to be replaced. Culver I'm just not sure about, and I expect him to get another year to show something.

Underwood could be a key to TT's approach to FAs and the draft regarding safeties. People forget that at the draft two years ago, Underwood was thought to be a more NFL-ready player than Collins. It turned out that he wasn't, but if he were to come on as a solid, if unspectacular, starter it would not be a surprise.

The other bottom third of the roster players are just "temps" for the most part as far as play from scrimmage.

[the_idle_threat]

I'll argue with ya Patler... what do ya want to argue about???

Global warming... that's always a good one!!! :)

Did you see the article circulating on the internet over the weekend, about a new video documentary addressing the gobal warming hoax? Apparently the points made are:

1. Scientific evidence does not support CO2 as a driving force for climate change.
2. CO2 has never driven climate change in the past.
3. Climate scientists advocate the "problem" simply to get research funding.
4. Jobs depend on there being global warming.
5. The paranoia over CO2 emissions harms third-world development, causing poverty and disease.

That should be enough to start a battle with someone,shouldn't it? :lol:

I think I will slink off to the side and duck!

Oh crap, here we go! :lol:

[pittstang5]

Underwood could be a key to TT's approach to FAs and the draft regarding safeties. People forget that at the draft two years ago, Underwood was thought to be a more NFL-ready player than Collins. It turned out that he wasn't, but if he were to come on as a solid, if unspectacular, starter it would not be a surprise.

Good Point Patler and I agree 100%. I too remember the hype when Underwood was drafted and was confused when he didn't play all that well in pre-season and the limited amount of times he played during his first season. I even remember a game he came in for Collins (Collins had to sit out for a play or two) and Underwood got roasted - gave up a touchdown if I'm not mistaken. THEN, this past training camp and pre-season he was playing for the injured Manuel and was doing great! I hope his rehap is going good because I'm expecting very positive things from him this year.

[wist43]

I'll argue with ya Patler... what do ya want to argue about???

Global warming... that's always a good one!!! :)

Did you see the article circulating on the internet over the weekend, about a new video documentary addressing the gobal warming hoax? Apparently the points made are:

1. Scientific evidence does not support CO2 as a driving force for climate change.
2. CO2 has never driven climate change in the past.
3. Climate scientists advocate the "problem" simply to get research funding.
4. Jobs depend on there being global warming.
5. The paranoia over CO2 emissions harms third-world development, causing poverty and disease.

That should be enough to start a battle with someone,shouldn't it? :lol:

I think I will slink off to the side and duck!

Oh crap, here we go! :lol:

Nothing to "here we go" about... Patler is exactly right in the points he makes. Global warming is a dead issue. The only people who believe in man caused GW, are the ignorant masses.

Being a chemist, I know plenty of people in the scientific field... I have yet to meet one in person that believes in "man caused" global warming. We actually get a good laugh about it - to bad the joke is on us.

Al Gore is an ignorant media whore, and the "scientists" (I use the term loosely) who prattle on endlessly about GW, do so strictly for financial reasons... lots of grant money out there.

Scientists in the know, know beyond all doubt that there is no such thing as "man caused" global warming...

The middle ages were considerably warmer than today... too bad Al and his green buddies weren't around to make those selfish bastards ride bikes instead of blazing thru the countryside in their SUV's.

End of discussion... just setting the record straight - back to football!!!!

:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

[Chester Marcol]

I'll argue with ya Patler... what do ya want to argue about???

Global warming... that's always a good one!!! :)

Did you see the article circulating on the internet over the weekend, about a new video documentary addressing the gobal warming hoax? Apparently the points made are:

1. Scientific evidence does not support CO2 as a driving force for climate change.
2. CO2 has never driven climate change in the past.
3. Climate scientists advocate the "problem" simply to get research funding.
4. Jobs depend on there being global warming.
5. The paranoia over CO2 emissions harms third-world development, causing poverty and disease.

That should be enough to start a battle with someone,shouldn't it? :lol:

I think I will slink off to the side and duck!

Oh crap, here we go! :lol:

Nothing to "here we go" about... Patler is exactly right in the points he makes. Global warming is a dead issue. The only people who believe in man caused GW, are the ignorant masses.

Being a chemist, I know plenty of people in the scientific field... I have yet to meet one in person that believes in "man caused" global warming. We actually get a good laugh about it - to bad the joke is on us.

Al Gore is an ignorant media whore, and the "scientists" (I use the term loosely) who prattle on endlessly about GW, do so strictly for financial reasons... lots of grant money out there.

Scientists in the know, know beyond all doubt that there is no such thing as "man caused" global warming...

The middle ages were considerably warmer than today... too bad Al and his green buddies weren't around to make those selfish bastards ride bikes instead of blazing thru the countryside in their SUV's.

End of discussion... just setting the record straight - back to football!!!!

:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

The proof that there is money to be made from global warming has to go no further than Bush finally coming around and jumping on board. His financial advisors must have clued him in.

[woodbuck27]

I'll argue with ya Patler... what do ya want to argue about???

Global warming... that's always a good one!!! :)

Did you see the article circulating on the internet over the weekend, about a new video documentary addressing the gobal warming hoax? Apparently the points made are:

1. Scientific evidence does not support CO2 as a driving force for climate change.
2. CO2 has never driven climate change in the past.
3. Climate scientists advocate the "problem" simply to get research funding.
4. Jobs depend on there being global warming.
5. The paranoia over CO2 emissions harms third-world development, causing poverty and disease.

That should be enough to start a battle with someone,shouldn't it? :lol:

I think I will slink off to the side and duck!

Oh crap, here we go! :lol:

Nothing to "here we go" about... Patler is exactly right in the points he makes. Global warming is a dead issue. The only people who believe in man caused GW, are the ignorant masses.

Being a chemist, I know plenty of people in the scientific field... I have yet to meet one in person that believes in "man caused" global warming. We actually get a good laugh about it - to bad the joke is on us.

Al Gore is an ignorant media whore, and the "scientists" (I use the term loosely) who prattle on endlessly about GW, do so strictly for financial reasons... lots of grant money out there.

Scientists in the know, know beyond all doubt that there is no such thing as "man caused" global warming...

The middle ages were considerably warmer than today... too bad Al and his green buddies weren't around to make those selfish bastards ride bikes instead of blazing thru the countryside in their SUV's.

End of discussion... just setting the record straight - back to football!!!!

:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Some polar bears might argue with you. If they could.

I wouldn't with all the DAM snow here in Montreal. :)

[MJZiggy]

It was a nice try at getting the last word in, Wist...Besides Barnett, what young players have contracts coming due? I want to see Barnett resigned and believe it'll get done. TT does seem to learn from his mistakes and though I don't know enough details about Green's situation to know how he ended up on the FA market (yes I've heard your ideas on the topic), I have a feeling he may not let it happen twice in a row.

[Patler]

Besides Barnett, what young players have contracts coming due?

Corry Williams
Rayner
Morency
Dendy
Miree

A bunch of others like
Hunter
Bourke
Kevin Barry
Bodiford
Martin
Alcorn
etc. who may not even be here during 2007.

[MJZiggy]

Well, that creates an interesting situation...Green leaves via free agency this year and Morency is a free agent next offseason. I wonder what kind of contract numbers they'll be throwing at him...?

[HarveyWallbangers]

Corry Williams
Rayner
Morency
Dendy
Miree

A bunch of others like
Hunter
Bourke
Kevin Barry
Bodiford
Martin
Alcorn
etc. who may not even be here during 2007.

Not many that are all that important. It's a nice situation. I still don't know why we can't frontload some of these contracts and get a couple of guys signed. It's not going to affect the cap enough that we won't be able to sign Barnett and Williams. I'm not sure even Thompson believes Morency is the long-term solution.

[Patler]

And looking ahead to post-2008 season, the FA class of the current roster is also small:

Tauscher
Poppinga
Underwood
Ryan
Ferguson

I doubt that Ferguson will matter at that point.
Who knows about Ryan? He may or may not matter.
Underwood, Poppinga? Still a lot to prove. May or may not be starters by then.
Tauscher - hard to say. Could be nearing the end. Could have another 2 or 3 productive years to give. He would be starting his 10th year under a new contract in 2009. Hard to believe!

[wist43]

It was a nice try at getting the last word in, Wist...Besides Barnett, what young players have contracts coming due? I want to see Barnett resigned and believe it'll get done. TT does seem to learn from his mistakes and though I don't know enough details about Green's situation to know how he ended up on the FA market (yes I've heard your ideas on the topic), I have a feeling he may not let it happen twice in a row.

I've made a comparison to what TT did with the OL two years and what he's doing with the RB position this year... there are similarities there - although we're still very early in the offseason, and other than Green, there really isn't anyone else available out there that I think addresses the position. He can't possibly go into the season with what he has there.

As for the young guys, I do believe that TT will make an effort to resign "his guys"... and, maybe even preemptively ala Jenkins - something I am a huge advocate of. But, as has been pointed out, there really aren't too many "core" young guys coming due w/in the next couple of years.

As for Barnett - everyone knows I'm not a fan. That said, he did play slightly above average last year, and I'm not necessarily against resigning him at a reasonable number. As much as that pains me to say; however, I'm sure they're going to pay a lot more for him than I think he's worth.

[pbmax]

A lot could depend on his own coaches evaluation of him in the scheme.

Wolf/Thompson have not spent large dollars on Mikes (other than coaches :wink: ), so it would be down to the coaching staff to lobby for his resigning.

[mraynrand]

I like some of the young guys the Packers have on the roster. I especially likd what I saw from Bush on teams. He was unblockable by the end of the year. Tons of sped and strength. Will be interesting to see if he has any coverage skills, because he's got the knack for teams. I also thought Hunter was good on teams - very agressive. Again, are these guys career backups and teams players or do they have skills is the question. I 'll be optimistic and guess that they do.

-----------
BTW, the Bush administration has spent 5 billion (that's BILLION with a B) on climate reseach every year of his presidency for a running total of 30 BILLION DOLLARS - just on research. Much of that research is into climate change - global warming research is a huge business, and if you don't agree with the dogma that humans are causing global climate change, you won't get a single research dime from the government.

[Farley Face]

Wow FF arguing with the great Patler careful you may be struck by lightning.

I guess I don't understand that comment. I haven't noticed a reluctance of people to argue with me. Heck, if they weren't disagreeing with me I wouldn't post nearly as much! :D :D

No argument intended, just a level headed, objective debate. My concern is with the current roster there seems to be little difference between or primary backups and or bottom of the roster guys. That is worrisome to me.

[Farley Face]

Wow FF arguing with the great Patler careful you may be struck by lightning.

I guess I don't understand that comment. I haven't noticed a reluctance of people to argue with me. Heck, if they weren't disagreeing with me I wouldn't post nearly as much! :D :D

No argument intended, just a level headed, objective debate. My concern is with the current roster there seems to be little difference between or primary backups and or bottom of the roster guys. That is worrisome to me.

substitute 'our' for 'or' twice. Sorry, too many Labatts.

[BF4MVP]

I think it's a good idea to build primarily through the draft. That way, the players come cheap for their first few years, and it's always easier to sign your own guys than to sign other teams' guys..The question is, how many of these young players will be worth anything in the future? Can they be good players? The early results of the 2006 draft are extremely promising..I guess we'll see what happens..TT's ability to draft could make the rebuilding process a lot easier, or it could prolong it for a loooong time..We'll see what happens I guess..I also think the fate of this team could be determined by whether Aaron Rodgers turns out to be a good quarterback. Like Lombardi said, if you miss on a quarterback, it could set your team back a decade..Or something like that..