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the_idle_threat
03-20-2007, 01:06 PM
Good stuff posted today on Cliffy's blog at JSO:

TUESDAY, March 20, 2007, 12:38 p.m.

The truth about free agency

There was one quality cornerback available in this year’s free agent market: Nate Clements, who signed an astronomical $80 million contract with more than $20 million of it guaranteed to jump from Buffalo to San Francisco.

The best of the rest available corners probably started with Roderick Hood, the nickel back in Philadelphia the past two years; Nick Harper, a starter in Indianapolis for the past four years; Fred Smoot, who had signed a $36 million deal with Minnesota before the 2005 season; and Phillip Buchanon, a former No. 1 draft pick with Oakland who joined Tampa Bay at mid-season last year.

But Hood has started only 13 games in four years; Harper is 32 and was going to be phased out by the Colts; Smoot was benched by the Vikings in each of the last two seasons and cut March 1; and Buchanon was cut outright by the Houston Texans last October before signing with the Bucs.

How good are any of the four?

Before last season, Pro Football Weekly, based on feedback from NFL scouts, didn’t have any of them ranked among the game’s top 25 corners or 17 up-and-coming, veteran prospects.

The War Room scouts who evaluate players for the Sporting News – the magazine claims they all formerly worked for college or pro teams – ranked Smoot 54th; Harper, 60th, one spot behind Ahmad Carroll; Hood, 73rd, one spot behind another former Packer, Mike Hawkins; and Buchanon, 93rd. Only Hood figures to have much chance of making a big jump on the list in this year’s pre-season ratings. And even then, Hood probably won’t be ranked among the top 50.

Nevertheless, the reported signing bonuses for those four free agent corners were Smoot, $7 million; Harper, $3 million; Hood, $2.5 million; and Buchanon, $2 million. Smoot went back to Washington; Harper signed with Tennessee and Hood with Arizona; and Buchanon re-signed with Tampa Bay.

The Packers signed cornerback Frank Walker, formerly of the New York Giants, for one year and a reported $150,000 signing bonus. Walker was ranked 153rd by the Sporting News.

But he could easily have the best year of the bunch in 2007. He’s only 26. He has played in the NFL for four years. He has started eight games. If Green Bay and its defensive scheme prove to be a good fit for Walker, there’s no reason why he couldn’t play to the same level or even at a higher level than the other four free agents.

Walker also could get cut. But the other four might all be disappointments, as well.

That’s free agency. When you start trying to separate the 54th best corner from the 153rd, you’re splitting hairs. When you compare Champ Bailey, the best corner in the game, to Hood, maybe the best of those previously mentioned four free agents, you’re talking about a huge difference. When you’re talking about the difference between Hood and Walker, you’re talking about a microscopic difference.

If you compared it to a beauty contest, Bailey would be a Sports Illustrated swimsuit model. Hood, Harper, Smoot, Buchanon and Walker would all fall into the category of what you usually see at bar closing time.







TUESDAY, March 20, 2007, 11:08 a.m.

Graybeards, free agency & the Packers

I remember sitting in Martin's Tavern, a landmark in the Georgetown neighborhood of Washington, D.C., during a trip east in the summer of 2000. My wife and I were talking to two young Redskins fans who were expecting big things of their team that season; their hopes fueled, at least in part, by the equally large expectations that the national media had for the Redskins.

The Redskins were coming off a 10-6 season, their best record in eight years or since their last Super Bowl triumph, and were reigning NFC Eastern Division champions. That off-season, they had signed as free agents cornerback Deion Sanders, who was just a year removed from playing in his seventh Pro Bowl; defensive end Bruce Smith, who ranked second in the NFL at the time in career sacks; safety Mark Carrier, a three-time Pro Bowl starter and a Pro Bowl alternate as recently as the previous year; and quarterback Jeff George, who had ranked third in the league in passing the previous season with Minnesota.

And it wasn't as though the Redskins didn't have some good young players. They had drafted Champ Bailey in the first round in the previous year and he had already showed signs of emerging as one of the premier cornerbacks in the league. Stephen Davis was a 26-year old, up-and-coming running back who had rushed for 1,405 yards the previous season. Michael Westbrook, a first-round draft pick five years earlier, had a breakout season in 1999 with 65 catches for 1,191 yards and nine TDs. The Redskins also had two anchors in their offensive line: Guard Tre' Johnson, who was coming off a Pro Bowl season; and tackle Jon Jansen, a second-round draft pick the previous year who had started all 16 games as a rookie. And just that past April, the Redskins had owned the second and third picks in the NFL draft and used them on linebacker LaVar Arrington and tackle Chris Samuels.

But most everyone seemed to be picking the Redskins to win the Super Bowl based more on their free agent haul. And I remember telling those two young men that I hated to burst their bubble, but that the NFL was a young man's game and that it wouldn't surprise me if the Redskins were the biggest disappointment in the league.

Sure enough, the 2000 Redskins finished 8-8 and missed the playoffs.

At the time, Sanders was 33; Smith, 37; and Carrier and George, 32. The Redskins also had dipped heavily into free agency the previous year, signing Larry Centers, a two-time starter at fullback in the Pro Bowl; pass rush specialist Marco Coleman; Andy Heck, a 10-year starter at tackle; and quarterback. Brad Johnson. Those four players also were back, but also 30 or older.

The 2000 Redskins should serve as a warning sign to those of you who think that acquiring Randy Moss might elevate the Packers into the favorite's role to win the NFC title next year.

Moss is 30 years old. Brett Favre will turn 38 in October. Donald Driver is 32. Al Harris will turn 33 next season and Charles Woodson, 31. Tackles Chad Clifton and Mark Tauscher are no longer youngsters, either. Clifton will turn 31 and Tauscher, 30, before the start of training camp. Pass rush specialist Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila also will hit the 30 mark early next season.

Except for maybe KGB, those are the Packers' best players. Aaron Kampman, Nick Barnett and A.J. Hawk also belong in that category. But if seven of a team's 10 best players are 30 or older, it's almost destined to meet the same fate as the 2000 Redskins.

woodbuck27
03-20-2007, 01:43 PM
''The 2000 Redskins should serve as a warning sign to those of you who think that acquiring Randy Moss might elevate the Packers into the favorite's role to win the NFC title next year.

Moss is 30 years old. Brett Favre will turn 38 in October. Donald Driver is 32. Al Harris will turn 33 next season and Charles Woodson, 31. Tackles Chad Clifton and Mark Tauscher are no longer youngsters, either. Clifton will turn 31 and Tauscher, 30, before the start of training camp. Pass rush specialist Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila also will hit the 30 mark early next season.

Except for maybe KGB, those are the Packers' best players. Aaron Kampman, Nick Barnett and A.J. Hawk also belong in that category. But if seven of a team's 10 best players are 30 or older, it's almost destined to meet the same fate as the 2000 Redskins.'' the_idle_threat

That is what I deem a sobering fact.

Yet overall the Packers are a young team and may develop.

Cleft Crusty
03-20-2007, 02:37 PM
It's much more likely that either Bush or one of the other corners the Packers have on the roster (Blackmon) will improve enough to suffice as competent backups for the upcoming season. Given the age of the corners, you probably need some depth there, but you don't have to go nuts spending millions for other people's garbage. Paying out big bucks for Fred Smoot is no better than spending 10,000 dollars on eBay for an old Driver's licence from Anna Nicole Smith.

LL2
03-20-2007, 03:02 PM
''The 2000 Redskins should serve as a warning sign to those of you who think that acquiring Randy Moss might elevate the Packers into the favorite's role to win the NFC title next year.

Moss is 30 years old. Brett Favre will turn 38 in October. Donald Driver is 32. Al Harris will turn 33 next season and Charles Woodson, 31. Tackles Chad Clifton and Mark Tauscher are no longer youngsters, either. Clifton will turn 31 and Tauscher, 30, before the start of training camp. Pass rush specialist Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila also will hit the 30 mark early next season.

Except for maybe KGB, those are the Packers' best players. Aaron Kampman, Nick Barnett and A.J. Hawk also belong in that category. But if seven of a team's 10 best players are 30 or older, it's almost destined to meet the same fate as the 2000 Redskins.'' the_idle_threat

That is what I deem a sobering fact.

Yet overall the Packers are a young team and may develop.

I guess we want to see TT do something for the sake of doing something, but that is foolish based on Cliff’s blog. It makes sense for TT to stockpile on draft picks and keep infiltrating young talent onto the team. Hopefully some of the players from the last couple of drafts start to come of age in the 2nd and 3rd years in the league, and hit a homerun with 1 or 2 players this year. I think that is what TT is banking on.

red
03-20-2007, 03:10 PM
did anyone on here even bring up the idea that we had to get a stud cb?

sure both our corners are getting old, but at this point their both playing at pro bowl levels, and we have blackmon. we have much greater needs on this team

why doesn't cliff talk about something usefull, like how we don't have anyone to line up behind brett except nfle caliber players

has anyone even been bitching about getting our CB over someone like smoot?

MJZiggy
03-20-2007, 03:15 PM
I think it's the easiest way for him to make his point. Our corners are the oldest position on the team, and the FA market was weak in that area. Therefore, to his logic, it stands to reason that the whole team will suck because these guys are older regardless of how they played last year. I find it interesting that he compares us to 2000 Washington when this is the year we only pick up ONE FA and have one of the youngest teams in the league.

red
03-20-2007, 03:19 PM
i like how he thinks us getting one older player in moss (30), is the same as the redskins bringing in a whole new team of washed up over the hill players

packrulz
03-20-2007, 03:24 PM
Harris is 33 and Woodson is 31, yea, that worries me. Wolf would draft CB's every year, and you really can't find any in the later rounds. McKenzie was a 3rd round pick. CB has to be on TT's list headed into the draft, the FA's are too old to shell out a lot of cash.

HarveyWallbangers
03-20-2007, 03:31 PM
Technically, Harris is 32 and Woodson is 30. Harris won't turn 33 until December. Woodson turns 31 in October.

packrulz
03-20-2007, 03:49 PM
Technically, Harris is 32 and Woodson is 30. Harris won't turn 33 until December. Woodson turns 31 in October.

I still think that's pretty old for a starting CB in the NFL. They never participate in the offseason conditioning program and it looks like they won't this year either. Favre don't participate either but he doesn't have to run with WR's all day. Don't get me wrong, I like both Woodson and Harris but I feel the Pack will only get a couple more quality years out of them. Time to start drafting some CB's.

HarveyWallbangers
03-20-2007, 04:01 PM
I still think that's pretty old for a starting CB in the NFL.

I agree. We need some young blood. Hopefully, Blackmon stays healthy and Walker shows something.


They never participate in the offseason conditioning program and it looks like they won't this year either.

Don't care. It's not like they sit at home... doing nothing. A lot of players workout down south, and are better for it. Javon Walker always worked out in Arizona. Harris always comes into camp in fantastic shape. He's a true professional. Nothing leads me to believe Woodson won't be in good shape. Hopefully, he's not traveling to Europe this offseason.

oregonpackfan
03-20-2007, 05:43 PM
''The 2000 Redskins should serve as a warning sign to those of you who think that acquiring Randy Moss might elevate the Packers into the favorite's role to win the NFC title next year.

This is a remarkable quote that just concerns Randy Moss' age. It says nothing about his character, not taking of his body, moodiness, playing hard only when the ball comes to him, etc.

I hope those Packer fans who desperately want Moss to join the team read this article completely.

CaliforniaCheez
03-20-2007, 06:59 PM
''The 2000 Redskins should serve as a warning sign to those of you who think that acquiring Randy Moss might elevate the Packers into the favorite's role to win the NFC title next year.

Moss is 30 years old. Brett Favre will turn 38 in October. Donald Driver is 32. Al Harris will turn 33 next season and Charles Woodson, 31. Tackles Chad Clifton and Mark Tauscher are no longer youngsters, either. Clifton will turn 31 and Tauscher, 30, before the start of training camp. Pass rush specialist Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila also will hit the 30 mark early next season.

Except for maybe KGB, those are the Packers' best players. Aaron Kampman, Nick Barnett and A.J. Hawk also belong in that category. But if seven of a team's 10 best players are 30 or older, it's almost destined to meet the same fate as the 2000 Redskins.'' the_idle_threat

That is what I deem a sobering fact.

Yet overall the Packers are a young team and may develop.

Last year OT was addressed with Colledge and Moll. The Packers will have to address CB with quality draft picks. This is the second year of Woodson's contract which ballons in cost in year 4. I expect him to be cut before the fourth year. That gives 2 drafts and 2 seasons to find his replacement. First round CB this season would not be a suprise.

KGB still has a couple of years before that signing bouns amount against the cap gets worked down enough. There will be an aquisition that will force a decision on Montgomery first.

red
03-20-2007, 08:05 PM
''The 2000 Redskins should serve as a warning sign to those of you who think that acquiring Randy Moss might elevate the Packers into the favorite's role to win the NFC title next year.

Moss is 30 years old. Brett Favre will turn 38 in October. Donald Driver is 32. Al Harris will turn 33 next season and Charles Woodson, 31. Tackles Chad Clifton and Mark Tauscher are no longer youngsters, either. Clifton will turn 31 and Tauscher, 30, before the start of training camp. Pass rush specialist Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila also will hit the 30 mark early next season.

Except for maybe KGB, those are the Packers' best players. Aaron Kampman, Nick Barnett and A.J. Hawk also belong in that category. But if seven of a team's 10 best players are 30 or older, it's almost destined to meet the same fate as the 2000 Redskins.'' the_idle_threat

That is what I deem a sobering fact.

Yet overall the Packers are a young team and may develop.

Last year OT was addressed with Colledge and Moll. The Packers will have to address CB with quality draft picks. This is the second year of Woodson's contract which ballons in cost in year 4. I expect him to be cut before the fourth year. That gives 2 drafts and 2 seasons to find his replacement. First round CB this season would not be a suprise.

KGB still has a couple of years before that signing bouns amount against the cap gets worked down enough. There will be an aquisition that will force a decision on Montgomery first.

kgb's cap hit is low enough now, it was low enough last year

we save good money if we get rid of him

his cap number this year is around 6.57 million thats the smallest he will count, he might have some other bonuses in there

his remaining signing bonus is 4.7 million

if we cut him we can use the june 1st rule at any time

he would count 1.57 million against this years cap, equaling a 5 million dollar cap savings this year

and he would count about 3.15 or so against next years cap. he is suppose to count 7.72 million or so next year (at least). meaning we would save over 4.5 million next year

so we would save almost 10 million over the next 2 years by getting rid of kgb

we could and should do that

RashanGary
03-20-2007, 08:07 PM
I think we should keep KGB around for one more year. This is a pretty good year for DE's so maybe we'll get one of those.

As far as CB's go, we have 2 years to replace Woodson and 3 years to replace Harris. We need to find 2 good young CB's and we need to do it pretty quickly.

Guiness
03-20-2007, 08:26 PM
CB was a particularly bad position to pick on - this year or any year. Granted though, it did make his point.

Buchanon and Hood are rated lower than Hawkins, eh? Ouch. Although I wouldn't have minded Hood - he could still be a player. Wasn't Harris primarily a nickel back when we got him?