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digitaldean
04-07-2007, 02:33 PM
Found this article from espn's Scouts Inc. Pretty accurate on Hawk's first season. Let's just hope that he stays healthy to fulfill Packer fans expectations.
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As older players begin to fade, youngsters must be ready to emerge. It's the circle of life in the NFL. With that in mind, we went looking for some young defensive players who seem poised to step up.

Thanks in large part to last year's impressive rookie class, a number of players could have made this list. But we settled on five guys on the cusp of becoming perennial Pro Bowl defenders.

One player who truly deserves a spot on this list for his play is Adam "Pacman" Jones. With the exception of Champ Bailey, who is in a class by himself, Jones is as good a cover corner as there is in the league, and is just scratching the surface of his abilities. He also plays the game with a nasty edge.

Jones is extremely fast and explosive out of his breaks. He is very fluid in transition and has exceptional ball skills. Once he gets his hands on the ball, few defensive players in the league can compete with his run-after-catch ability. He is a superb return man, but an even better cornerback. Given his tenuous status due to his off-field issues, we left him off this list. I wouldn't necessarily want Jones on my team, but I certainly wouldn't want to play against him, either.

Players such as Haloti Ngata, Kerry Rhodes and many others also could have made this list, but these five have distinguished themselves:

LB Bart Scott, Baltimore Ravens
Scott is surrounded by a fantastic group of defensive players, but he brings great qualities to the unit. Scott can do it all. He is already a very good pass-rusher and will only improve with time. He is also an excellent run stuffer who is quick to fill, aggressive in pursuit and nasty when he arrives.

In coverage, he has the athleticism and speed to run with just about any tight end or running back in the league. He has smooth hips and is quick to close. Scott gets deep drops into his zones and excels in space. He is very explosive in all areas of his game, and is a punishing finisher who generates turnovers.

He is one of the rare linebackers in this league who can play and excel at just about any linebacker position in any defense. There will be a lot of Pro Bowl trips in his future.

LB A.J. Hawk, Green Bay Packers
Hawk is also an extremely versatile linebacker. He is a shade behind Scott in his development. He does not have the same talent around him in Green Bay, but Hawk is going to be a very good linebacker in this league for a long time. He is incredibly fast, and maybe more impressively for a rookie linebacker, takes very few false steps. He also takes good angles to the ball carrier and reads plays very quickly.

Hawk had some growing pains in his rookie year, but got better each week and became a real playmaker by the end of the season. He is a good blitzer, a force against the run and has fantastic ball skills for a linebacker. Hawk is going to cause a lot of turnovers throughout his career and has already become a difference maker for the Packers. In a bigger media market, Hawk's play would have been more noticed.

DE Luis Castillo, San Diego Chargers
Defensive ends often go unnoticed in a 3-4 scheme, but Castillo has quickly emerged as one of the very best in the business. Teams that run this scheme will often fill this position with cheap, veteran linemen who are tough, but limited athletes.

Castillo is a fantastic athlete for his size (290 pounds). He is quick off the ball, and can penetrate or lock out an offensive tackle. He is the type of player who makes everyone around him a better and more productive football player. Castillo may never get the acclaim he deserves, but is already one of the top players in the league at his position.

LB DeMarcus Ware, Dallas Cowboys
Ware is a difference maker who is just beginning to realize his full potential. He entered the league in the same draft as Shawne Merriman and also plays outside linebacker in a 3-4 defense. This could be one of the reasons why Ware doesn't get his due. He is already a great player, but the sky is the limit for this young player out of Troy State. Even coming from a very small program, Ware was quick to assert himself as a dangerous edge pass rusher.

The rest of his linebacking skills are coming along well, but his edge rush ability is what puts him on this list. He explodes off the snap, gets his hands on his blocker very quickly and eats up space with long, fluid strides. He uses his long arms very well, and is athletic enough to bend the edge without losing any speed. Ware is the type of guy offenses game plan against when they throw the football.

LB Ernie Sims, Detroit Lions
Rod Marinelli took over a mess in Detroit last season. The Lions not only lacked talent, but also the belief in themselves. One of Marinelli's first moves was drafting Sims in the first round of the 2006 draft.

An explosive, nasty weakside linebacker in Detroit's Cover 2 scheme, Sims is emerging as the next Derrick Brooks. Much like Brooks, Sims is a natural playmaker who not only strives to be great, but has the competitiveness and leadership qualities to change the attitude in Detroit. This is a giant endeavor and Sims certainly will not be able to do it alone, but he is doing everything possible to get the job done.

Patler
04-07-2007, 02:59 PM
LB Bart Scott, Baltimore Ravens
Scott is surrounded by a fantastic group of defensive players, but he brings great qualities to the unit. Scott can do it all. He is already a very good pass-rusher and will only improve with time. He is also an excellent run stuffer who is quick to fill, aggressive in pursuit and nasty when he arrives.

In coverage, he has the athleticism and speed to run with just about any tight end or running back in the league. He has smooth hips and is quick to close. Scott gets deep drops into his zones and excels in space. He is very explosive in all areas of his game, and is a punishing finisher who generates turnovers.

He is one of the rare linebackers in this league who can play and excel at just about any linebacker position in any defense. There will be a lot of Pro Bowl trips in his future.

Where do they come up with these ideas. Bart Scott the #1 up and coming player???

First he is already going into his 6th year. Hardly a newcomer.
Generates turnovers? In 5 years (26 games as a starter) he has 3 interceptions (2 last season, the other was 5 years ago) and 2 forced fumbles (none last season).

Hawk has generated 3 turnovers in just 16 games.

motife
04-07-2007, 03:35 PM
Just as perspective with the draft coming up and the Lance Briggs talk...

Would you trade A.J. Hawk for Lance Briggs? Who do you think would have more impact on a defense?

Do you think the holder of the 5th pick in the draft this year would feel cheated trading it for Hawk today?

LL2
04-07-2007, 03:45 PM
Just as perspective with the draft coming up and the Lance Briggs talk...

Would you trade A.J. Hawk for Lance Briggs?

Do you think the holder of the 5th pick in the draft this year would feel cheated trading it for Hawk today?

NO to both.

Patler
04-07-2007, 03:48 PM
Would you trade A.J. Hawk for Lance Briggs? Who do you think would have more impact on a defense?


Interesting question. I don't think I would make that trade. I don't know if Briggs is much of an upgrade even now. When Hawk has another year or two of experience, he might be the better player.

Briggs was a very good linebacker on a very good defense.
Hawk was a good linebacker on a so-so defense.
If you reversed them, I wonder what the result would be?

When in doubt, I will gladly take the player that is 3 or 4 years younger. NFL careers are so short, by the time most players reach 30 their best years are behind them. A 10 year vet is pretty old. Briggs is about half-way there.

motife
04-07-2007, 04:04 PM
Interesting question. I don't think I would make that trade. I don't know if Briggs is much of an upgrade even now. When Hawk has another year or two of experience, he might be the better player.

Briggs was a very good linebacker on a very good defense.
Hawk was a good linebacker on a so-so defense.
If you reversed them, I wonder what the result would be?

When in doubt, I will gladly take the player that is 3 or 4 years younger. NFL careers are so short, by the time most players reach 30 their best years are behind them. A 10 year vet is pretty old. Briggs is about half-way there.

very good points..

My own opinion is A.J. Hawk could be a mini-Urlacher. His closing speed and ball presence are reminiscent of the Bear's linebacker. Glimpses of this were evident to me anyway, last season. Particularly as the defense solidified after the New England 38-0 pasting.

b bulldog
04-07-2007, 04:34 PM
Great articler and I think Hawk,Sims and Ware all have big upsides but Ware in the CXowboys 3/4 should develop into a Merriman type of player.

Bretsky
04-07-2007, 04:41 PM
Yes, a very good article

A couple wise men wannabe's in here noted pre-draft Hawk was very NFL ready.

He took a bit of time to adjust, but those words ended up being spot on.

b bulldog
04-07-2007, 04:45 PM
Some also noted that the difference between Hawk and a few other LB's wasn't real great .

RashanGary
04-07-2007, 05:45 PM
I don't think Sims is close to Hawk. You said Carpenter was almost as good bulldog.

Bretsky
04-07-2007, 05:51 PM
I don't think Sims is close to Hawk. You said Carpenter was almost as good bulldog.

Good Memory

I think Hawk is a step ahead of Sims and am glad we did not trade down to get Sims or Carpenter.

b bulldog
04-07-2007, 05:51 PM
I did but I also said that the difference between Hawk and the other top lb's was slim. I DEAD WRONG on Carp but Ryans and Sims were very close and Ryans won ROY. Now we can all say that Hawk is way better but nationally, Hawk,Ryans and Sims are looked at to be close as was noted in this column and the rookie of the year voting. I may have been dead wrong on Mario but we will see after this year. I did say also that Bush wouldn't be the player he was in college in the NFL. Win some, you lose some. I will say that there were many in here that liked Hawk more than me so kudos to you all. I do think he would be better in the middle though. Not that he bad at the will but he brings more to th table than 56 does.

b bulldog
04-07-2007, 05:52 PM
I think we could have taken Sims after a trade down and picked up another second rounder.

Bretsky
04-07-2007, 05:53 PM
Well, I liked Odell Thurman and wanted Green Bay to draft him in round one......so it looks like my mistakes are greater :lol:

Bretsky
04-07-2007, 05:54 PM
I think we could have taken Sims after a trade down and picked up another second rounder.

I don't think we'd pick up a 2nd to go from 5 to 9; my guess is it would be a third, but I don't know where that point thingy is.

And I'm not sure I'd do that for a second even with what I know now.

b bulldog
04-07-2007, 06:06 PM
It only matters how much the team that wants to move up is in love with the player thy covet. I remembver a few years back, one team gave their second to move up two or three spots.

RashanGary
04-07-2007, 06:10 PM
I think Hawk is alot better than Sims. Sims can make big plays but he's so inconsistant and brittle. I think there is a big difference and it showed up in the Lions game.

I think Ryans is pretty close as far as just making tackles and doing the right thing but I think Hawk is going to show a higher playmaking ceiling with sacks, int's and forced fumbles. I think Hawk is an impact, top level talent and Ryans is a very solid, not spectacular Barnett.

I like Willis almost as much as Hawk. If you want to find a LB that is close to Hawk, I don't think you can find him in the 06 draft, but there is one in the 07 draft IMO.

I completely disagree that the other LBs are almost as good as Hawk. We'll find out after year 2.

b bulldog
04-07-2007, 06:11 PM
I was looking back at the posts and I did lthink that Carp, Sims, Ryans and Greenway were just a tick behind Hawk. I also thought Young was the best QB in the draft and I noted many times that the best players in the draft were Bush,Mario and Ferguson. I stated numerous times that I thought it would take Mario a year and a half to play at the level I expected him to play and Nick said that it would take two seasons. :)

b bulldog
04-07-2007, 06:12 PM
wELL THE VOTERS THOUGHT rYANS WAS BETTER THIS YEAR.

RashanGary
04-07-2007, 06:17 PM
I think we were one of the few that really like Ryans too bulldog. I had a whole thread on it and I think everyone laughed me out of town when I said he was a top 20 player.

Sims = big plays, inconsistant
Ryans = very consistant, no big plays
Hawk = big plays, consistant

As similar as he is to Ryans in consistancy and Sims in playmaking, it is rare that a player brings it all together. Hawk is a rare palyer and the other two have different but major holes.

I think Willis is close though. He might be better than Hawk as far as making big plays but a little less consistant. He's no Simms though; Sims is a gambler and a weak link on many plays.

RashanGary
04-07-2007, 06:20 PM
They mentioned in that artical that Hawk lost alot of attn by playing in footballs smallest town on a team that was deemed from the beginning "irrelivant"

We'll find out after year 2. I think Hawk proves to be the better player. I think Willis proves to be one of this years top 5 too. He is a great player IMO.

Bretsky
04-07-2007, 06:20 PM
I think we were one of the few that really like Ryans too bulldog. I had a whole thread on it and I think everyone laughed me out of town when I said he was a top 20 player.

Sims = big plays, inconsistant
Ryans = very consistant, no big plays
Hawk = big plays, consistant

As similar as he is to Ryans in consistancy and Sims in playmaking, it is rare that a player brings it all together. Hawk is a rare palyer and the other two have different but major holes.

I think Willis is close though. He might be better than Hawk as far as making big plays but a little less consistant. He's no Simms though; Sims is a gambler and a weak link on many plays.


IF Willis would somehow fall to GB at 16 I'd have no problem with them taking him. That wouldl give them three outstanding LB's for many years to come, assuming TT signs Barnett.

Now if he'd take Willis and let Barnett go, I'm forumulating a bonfire and throwing TT in it :lol:

RashanGary
04-07-2007, 06:23 PM
I wouldn't mind if we got soemthing good for Barnett Bretsky. If we could get a high 2nd for him, it mgiht work out. Poppinga has consistantly gotten better. Barnett has made like 5 big plays in 4 years it's not like we're losing a gamechanger.

I agree though, having Hawk and Barnett on the outside and Willis in the middle would be a dream come true. I like Willis alot but I'm certain he will not be there. I would not be at all suprised if he goes in the top 10.

RashanGary
04-07-2007, 06:32 PM
http://www2.jsonline.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=26135&pageNo=1&num=&catID=7&sessionID={9F32C7E7-3531-4E8D-B4D4-985770DCF2D3}

LMAO..I can't believe how much I though I knew back then. God, I've changed in a year....

I had to edit it a little. I changed the hip fluidity thing but then I noticed Nutz quoted it and I'm screwed...LOL...

Regardless, I thought alot of Ryans going in. I was one of the few not to toot my own horn or anything :)

The Leaper
04-08-2007, 08:25 PM
Ryans has more chances to make plays...he's on a team that is behind by 10+ points most of the time. Teams RUN and RUN and RUN and RUN...get my point? He also didn't have a tackler like Barnett on his team either...taking away 100+ chances.

Hawk's long term upside is better IMO.

RashanGary
04-08-2007, 09:33 PM
Ryans has more chances to make plays...he's on a team that is behind by 10+ points most of the time. Teams RUN and RUN and RUN and RUN...get my point? He also didn't have a tackler like Barnett on his team either...taking away 100+ chances.

Hawk's long term upside is better IMO.

Well said, I agree. I watched some DeMeco Ryans and he was very unspectacular from what I saw. Hawk seems to have more playmaking upside. I think Ryans is just as good of a tackler though and got more chances in his rookie year. I think Hawk will prove to be a much better player, long term.

Guiness
04-09-2007, 07:26 AM
Would you trade A.J. Hawk for Lance Briggs? Who do you think would have more impact on a defense?


Interesting question. I don't think I would make that trade. I don't know if Briggs is much of an upgrade even now. When Hawk has another year or two of experience, he might be the better player.

Briggs was a very good linebacker on a very good defense.
Hawk was a good linebacker on a so-so defense.
If you reversed them, I wonder what the result would be?

When in doubt, I will gladly take the player that is 3 or 4 years younger. NFL careers are so short, by the time most players reach 30 their best years are behind them. A 10 year vet is pretty old. Briggs is about half-way there.

I like Hawk a lot, but I have to disagree with this. Briggs is a Pro-Bowler. Hawk is a potential Pro-Bowler. Briggs didn't go to the pro-bowl because he's a veteran who got voted in on a popularity contest - he well deserved to be there. Also, Briggs is by no means near the end of his career - if you were to sign him to a 4 or 5 year contract, you could expect him to play it out at his current level.

HarveyWallbangers
04-09-2007, 07:06 PM
Long-term, I'll take Hawk over Ryans. I don't care who got what awards.

As far as saying you could find similar LBs later in the draft, what position couldn't you say that for?

Young went #1 at QB. I'd take Cutler and possibly Leinart over him long-term.
Bush went #1 at RB. I might take MJD over him.
Ferguson went #1 at OT, but there were other OTs that were nearly as good.
Mario Williams went #1 at DE, and there were better rookie DEs.

The only top guy that was clearly better than other prospects at a position was Vernon Davis at TE, and he wasn't really that good last year.

BallHawk
04-09-2007, 07:48 PM
Hey, that was me who started that thread! Back when I was known as OneMoreYear.

b bulldog
04-09-2007, 08:49 PM
The thing was last years draft was loaded with solid LB's as this years draft is with WR's. When a draft is super in one position, you can find very good p-layers in that position after round one.

b bulldog
04-09-2007, 08:51 PM
Young is a winner and you can keep blowing smoke about him but all he does is win, even with crappy talent around him as in Tennessee. He should have been the Texans pick last year.

HarveyWallbangers
04-09-2007, 08:58 PM
I don't buy it. You can always find good players at every position. You take the top guy.

Ryans wouldn't have been available with our round 2 pick. Jackson, McIntosh, and Howard would have also been gone. The next 5 LBs that went in rounds 2 and 3 that we would have had a shot at were Abdul Hodge, Chris Gocong, Anthony Schlegel, Jon Alston, and Clint Ingram. That should end the argument supporting your theory. Really, the guys that did well last year (Hawk, Ryans, Sims, Wimbley, Lawson, Howard) were guys we wouldn't have had a shot at in round 2. Most of the other rookie LBs had very minimal impact.

b bulldog
04-09-2007, 09:09 PM
I agree to a point in regards to last year even though I posted two things at nauseum last offseason, one was that I liked Mario and two was that we could trade down in round one and still get a very talented LB. I may be dead wrong on the first but I think the second may be correct. This year, even with a solid WR class, any team that passes on CJ is crazy. Hawk was never viewed the way CJ is but imo, Hawk will be a 3 to 5 year probowler who doesn't make mistakes but doesn't make eye popping plays either. I don't think he will ever be an Urlacher but hopefully I am dead wrong.