Wolf and Urlacher Sitting In A Tree

[pbmax]

Every year, there is another 'what if' story from Wolf. For a while it was the hope to grab Ray Lewis, now its Urlacher. I hadn't heard this story before, last paragrraph has the money line:

JSOline: Silverstein


Of the 13 draft-day trades he has been involved in the past seven years, all have been to the rear with Thompson giving up his pick for multiple picks later in the draft. Wolf, his mentor, also mostly traded down - 10 of his 16 trades moved that way during his 10 years in charge of the Packers draft room - but he took his shots, too.

"I don't think it hurts to have volume, especially today," Wolf said in a phone interview Thursday. "Those guys have to make your team. If you have two chances to be right rather than one, then volume helps you. But I don't think there's any risk in trying to move up."

Such was the case in 2000, when Wolf desperately tried to move ahead of the Chicago Bears in the first round so he could select linebacker Brian Urlacher. Nobody would play ball with him and so he was stuck at No. 14, where he took tight end Bubba Franks.

[retailguy]

There is a legacy that is being protected... At any cost.

I am very grateful for Ron Wolf, and what he did for the Packers. But there is an ego there, and a big one at that.

I don't get it. At all

[MacCool606]

I had heard that story once before, and I thought they talked about the trading partner that backed out (I think it was Arizona at pick #7 - the Bears picked Urlacher at #9).

But what I remember about that draft was that we were going to take a TE and the question was if we were going with Bubba, or Anthony Becht. Out of the two, I think Wolf picked the right one.

[Fritz]

There is a legacy that is being protected... At any cost.

I am very grateful for Ron Wolf, and what he did for the Packers. But there is an ego there, and a big one at that.

I don't get it. At all

Retail Guy, you and I sit on opposite sides of the fence most times, but on this we are in agreement.

[Scott Campbell]

There is a legacy that is being protected... At any cost.

I am very grateful for Ron Wolf, and what he did for the Packers. But there is an ego there, and a big one at that.

I don't get it. At all

Retail Guy, you and I sit on opposite sides of the fence most times, but on this we are in agreement.


I wouldn't make too much out of this. I'm sure there were also times that he was desperately tyring to trade up to grab a guy that ultimately flopped. Reporters ask questions. Ron answers them.

This is no different than the fisherman who spins the tale about the one that got away.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I've heard the story plenty of times before. I wouldn't make it out to be much more than what is. Wolf has blamed himself for his misses too (e.g. John Michels). I see it as a straight shooter just being honest.

[mraynrand]

There is a legacy that is being protected... At any cost.

I am very grateful for Ron Wolf, and what he did for the Packers. But there is an ego there, and a big one at that.

I don't get it. At all

Retail Guy, you and I sit on opposite sides of the fence most times, but on this we are in agreement.

I think I have to agree as well. Wolf tried to push the 2001 draft off onto Shermy after it started looking crappy, but if you read the articles before the draft, it was clear that Sherman had input (as does any coach), but that he was 'learning on the job.' Wolf has a very unusual history in GB. he really was old school with trades and what not. I think there was a lot of respect for the guy. If I recall, when Rison was let go, and Wolf picked him up off waivers, I think a lot of other teams had to let Rison slide and that appeared to me to be a courtesy.

Still, look at Wolf's legacy - his #1 picks mostly sucked or were very average. He had a few good to very good drafts, but had some pretty average drafts, often netting only 1-2 starters 1996-1999, 2001 . Guy could really draft in the lower rounds and find quality players - e.g. Driver, Levens, KGB, Tauscher. But really, bringing in Holmgren, White, Favre, and Green define his tenure in GB.

[mraynrand]

I just re-looked a the 1999 draft. I thought that only McKenzie and Driver ended up contributing at a high level. Hunt, Bidwell, Edwards were also starters, but they were pretty marginal. Vinson was traded for Green, but that still doesn't make it a good pick, just a good trade.


1 (25, 25) - Antwan Edwards, Clemson
2 (16, 47) - Fred Vinson, Vanderbilt
3 (26, 87) - Mike McKenzie, Memphis
3 (33, 94) - Cletidus Hunt, Kentucky State
4 (36, 131) - Aaron Brooks, Virginia
4 (38, 133) - Josh Bidwell, Oregon
5 (26, 159) - DeMond Parker, Oklahoma
5 (30, 163) - Craig Heimburger, Missouri
6 (27, 196) - Dee Miller, Ohio State
6 (34, 203) - Scott Curry, Montana
7 (6, 212) - Chris Akins, Arkansas-Pine Bluff
7 (7, 213) - Donald Driver, Alcorn State

[pbmax]

The story doesn't change my opinion of the man, I just hadn't heard he had pursued selecting Urlacher before. And every once in a while we get another "how close we came" story. I like the inside scoop, but you would think after a while they would all be covered. If Harvey has heard this one, then I must have missed it.

And to be fair to Wolf, he has owned up to several mistakes so its not a protect the legacy at all costs drive. Favre, White, Holmgren and Super Bowl accomplishments have tended to wipe clean the slate of his missteps among fans and commentators.

And because of those accomplishments, I really have no complaint with him. Just an ocassional flinch when we revisit what might have been.

Its like re-editing a Star Wars movie, OK, I understand, but was it necessary?

[HarveyWallbangers]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/2000/nfldraft/news/2000/04/15/balt_draft_banks/

Brian Billick has said that Wolf offered him the #14, their 2nd, and their 4th to trade up to #5 that year. There have been reports that Wolf tried to trade up to get either Brian Urlacher, Shaun Ellis, or Corey Simon.

[mraynrand]

Its like re-editing a Star Wars movie, OK, I understand, but was it necessary?

If it's Episode I-III, then yes, extensive editing would be most welcome.

[Fritz]

I'm not suggesting Wolf was an awful G.M. And he has admitted to some mistakes. But he seems to have tried to pawn off the 2001 class on Sherman, and though I'm not a huge fand of Sherman-the-GM, Wolf was the guy with the title in 2001. And that was one of the all-time worst Packer draft classes ever. Who has contributed from that class? Torrance Marshall? Robert Ferguson? Boh Jue? Jamaal Reynolds? Bill Ferrario?

Man, that was an ugly one.

[RashanGary]

There is a legacy that is being protected... At any cost.

I am very grateful for Ron Wolf, and what he did for the Packers. But there is an ego there, and a big one at that.

I don't get it. At all

I agree.

Wolf knew that Sherman had never been a GM and never really was involved in pro player personel. I'm sure he spoke with Sherman and fully understood Shermans goals to continually fill holes and make the team better with every pick, every trade and every FA signing. Sherman basically took it one year at a time and forgot about the future. He took a shot and I think Wolf fully knew that was coming. To their credit they got pretty close but I think Wolf wanted the collapse to come after Favre retired so everyone would be reminded how much of a genius Wolf was.

Wolf used to say "Wait till Favre retires and you'll all appreciate him more" AKA "then you'll appreciate me more", now he's just out hyping himself up in other ways because his vision of the team collapsing after Favre retired is gone wiht the hiring of Thompson and the replacement of the guy Wolf appointed to protect his legacy.

I think Sherman was a hard worker and pretty damn successfull in everything that he did but Wolf knew what he was doing when he endorsed Sherman and I have a feeling that Wolf told Sherman it was a good idea to go after it now with full understanding of the long term reprocussions.

[Patler]

Wolf was the guy with the title in 2001. And that was one of the all-time worst Packer draft classes ever.

Not exactly true. I believe Sherman took over as GM on Feb 1, 2001. Wolf stayed on as a consultant until just after the draft. He was gone by the start of summer.

Everyone is willing to acknowledge that Sherman is the one who made the decision to trade Hasselbeck on March 5 to Seattle while at the same time Wolf was working on a deal with Miami. Why is it so hard to accept that Sherman had a very strong influence on the 2001 draft that was almost two months later?

I remember an article about the relationship at the time. Sherman said he spent most everyday getting up to speed on the draft, and Wolf discussed meeting daily with Sherman about it. He said at the time that it wouldn't be fair to Sherman to saddle him with picks he didn't want, since he was taking over as GM. So Wolf took it upon himself to educate Sherman about the 2001 draft and the players available. These were in articles at the time of the draft.

I think the Hasselbeck trade alone shows that Sherman had taken control. He is an acknowledged control freak as it is, so I doubt that being GM already he would have had no influence on the 2001 draft.

[RashanGary]

This is a little OT but it has to do with Sherman, Wolf and Ted..I jsut threw it here.

I think the 5 years preceeding each NFL season are largely responsible for the success that season, personel wise.

The 2006 season was a byproduct of the collective personel moves of 2000 - 2005, the 2007 season will be 2001-2006, the 2003 season was 1998-2002, so on and so forth.

As far as judging Sherman I think we can look at these last few years, 2004, 2005, 2006, ect, that Shermans years of GM reign had the most influence. Shermans years as GM built the core of these teams and they were awfull.

Conversely; the 5 years leading up to Shermans reign were run by Wolf, Thompson and company. They built the core of the team that Sherman inherrited as GM. I think you credit Wolf's personel team for the players that were on the field during the Sherman years.

As far as Thompson; we'll just start seeing what he has done this year and over the next 2 or 3 years. We can't really judge him just yet.

The core of;

Hawk, Jennings, Colledge, Spitz, Moll, Collins, Poppinga, Underwood, Rodgers, Jolly, Ingle Martin, Hodge and company are yet to be decided as far as effectiveness. IMO Thompson has 3 more drafts before his influence as GM can really be judged fully. I see a young core that is very promising and a financial flexibility that is going to allow us to keep getting better.

As far as rating Thompson now, I really can't do that but when rating Sherman during the years that his decision had the most influence we see a pretty bad GM. He did a good job plugging one hole only to find another one open but eventually he couldn't buy anymore time and he got fired, rightfully so.

[esoxx]

I've seen articles and stuff discussing Wolf's push to trade up for Urlacher in the past. I don't see him as trying to distort facts or protect a legacy (was he elected to public office?). Wolf has always been a codgy straight shooting type. He doesn't offer much fluff, whether it's good, bad or in-between.

He acknowledged mistakes which is more than can be said of a lot of GM's, including the guy who replaced him. On Buckley, not only did he acknowledge it and get rid of it, he actually applied what he learned and made a personal vow to not draft undersized CB's. If Mike Sherman had been paying attention he would avoided the Carroll mistake.

But most of you already know this.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I just re-looked a the 1999 draft. I thought that only McKenzie and Driver ended up contributing at a high level. Hunt, Bidwell, Edwards were also starters, but they were pretty marginal. Vinson was traded for Green, but that still doesn't make it a good pick, just a good trade.

1 (25, 25) - Antwan Edwards, Clemson
2 (16, 47) - Fred Vinson, Vanderbilt
3 (26, 87) - Mike McKenzie, Memphis
3 (33, 94) - Cletidus Hunt, Kentucky State
4 (36, 131) - Aaron Brooks, Virginia
4 (38, 133) - Josh Bidwell, Oregon
5 (26, 159) - DeMond Parker, Oklahoma
5 (30, 163) - Craig Heimburger, Missouri
6 (27, 196) - Dee Miller, Ohio State
6 (34, 203) - Scott Curry, Montana
7 (6, 212) - Chris Akins, Arkansas-Pine Bluff
7 (7, 213) - Donald Driver, Alcorn State

That draft isn't that bad. McKenzie, Driver, and Bidwell turned into good starters. Hunt and Brooks were solid starters for a couple of years (Brooks with another team) and below average starters for a couple of years. Edwards was a below average starter. Vinson turned into Ahman. And, yes, you can credit him on this draft for that because his draft pick brought a good return. This isn't a bad draft at all. In fact, considering that he turned Vinson into Ahman, that's a good draft. Three good starters and two average starters. One player traded for a Pro Bowl starter. One player that was traded who turned into a decent starter. Not sure who we drafted with the pick that was acquired for Brooks. Most GMs would take that every year.