Dear God...

[LL2]

Dear God: Why didn't you save the school children at…

Virgina Tech

Amish Country, PA

Wisconsin

Columbine High School

Moses Lake, Washington 2/2/96

Bethel, Alaska 2/19/97!

Pearl, Mississippi 10/1/97

West Paducah, Kentucky 12/1/97

Stam P, Arkansas 12/15/97

Jonesboro, Arkansas 3/24/98

Edinboro, Pennsylvania 4/24/98

Fayetteville, Tennessee 5/19/98

Springfield, Oregon 5/21/98

Richmond, Virginia 6/15/98

Littleton, Colorado 4/20/99

Taber, Alberta, Canada 5/28/99

Conyers, Georgia 5/20/99

Deming, New Mexico 11/19/99

Fort Gibson, Oklahoma 12/6/99

Santee, California 3/ 5/01 and

El Cajon, California 3/22/01

Sincerely,

Concerned Student
-----------------------------------------------------
Reply:

Dear Concerned Student: I am not allowed in schools.

Sincerely,
God
----------------------------------------------------------

How did this get started?...

-----------------

Let's see,

I think it started when Madeline Murray O'Hare
complained she didn't want any prayer in our schools.

And we said, OK..
------------------
Then ,

Someone said you better not read the Bible in school . The Bible that says "thou shalt! Not kill,
Thou shalt not steal, And love your neighbors as yourself,"

And we said, OK...
-----------------
Dr. Benjamin Spock said We shouldn't spank our children When they misbehaved Because their little personalities
Would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem.

And we said,
An expert should know what he's talking about So we won't spank them anymore..
------------------
Then someone said

Teachers and principals better not Discipline our children when they misbehave.
And the school administrators said No faculty member in this school
Better touch a student when they misbehave Because we don't want any bad publicity,
And we surely don't want to be sued.
And we accepted their Reasoning...
------------------
And the entertainment industry said, let's make TV shows and movies that promote
Profanity, violence and illicit sex... And let's record music that encourages
Rape, drugs, murder, suicide, and satanic themes...

And we said,
it's just entertainment And it has no adverse effect And nobody takes it seriously anyway,
So go right ahead.
------------------
Now we're asking ourselves

Why our children have no conscience, Why they don't know right from wrong, And why it doesn't bother them to
Kill strangers, classmates or even themselves.
------------------
Undoubtedly, If we thought about it long and hard enough, We could figure it out.
I'm sure it has a great deal to do with... "WE REAP WHAT WE SOW,"

[GrnBay007]

PARENTS WHO DRUG THEIR KIDS
author unknown

The other day, someone at a store in our town read that a
Methamphetamine lab had been found in an old farmhouse in the adjoining
county, and he asked me a rhetorical question. "Why didn't we have a drug
problem when you and I were growing up?" I replied: "I had a drug problem
when I was young.

I was drug to church on Sunday morning. I was drug to church for weddings
and funerals. I was drug to family reunions and community socials no matter the weather.
I was drug by my ears when I was disrespectful to adults.

I was also drug to the woodshed when I disobeyed my parents, told a lie,
brought home a bad report card, did not speak with respect, spoke ill of
the teacher or the preacher, or if I didn't put forth my best effort in
everything asked of me.

I was drug to the kitchen sink to have my mouth washed out with soap if I
uttered a profanity. I was drug out to pull weeds in mom's garden and
flower beds and cockleburs out of dad's fields.

I was drug to the homes of family, friends and neighbors to help out some
poor soul who had no one to mow the yard, repair the clothesline, or chop
some firewood; and if my mother had ever known that I took a single dime as a tip for this kindness, she would have drug me back to the woodshed!

Those drugs are still in my veins, and they affect my behavior in
everything I do, say or think. They are stronger than cocaine, crack or heroine. And if today's children had this kind of drug problem, America would be a better place.

God bless the parents who drug us!

[LL2]

PARENTS WHO DRUG THEIR KIDS
author unknown

I was also drug to the woodshed when I disobeyed my parents, told a lie,
brought home a bad report card, did not speak with respect, spoke ill of
the teacher or the preacher, or if I didn't put forth my best effort in
everything asked of me.

I was drug to the kitchen sink to have my mouth washed out with soap if I
uttered a profanity. I was drug out to pull weeds in mom's garden and
flower beds and cockleburs out of dad's fields.

Now that is what many call child abuse. I personally was spanked by a piece of wood by the woodpile when I was a kid when my family lived in northern Wisconsin! That stung like hell and never did it again.

[b bulldog]

Great post,LL2

[retailguy]

PARENTS WHO DRUG THEIR KIDS
author unknown

I was also drug to the woodshed when I disobeyed my parents, told a lie,
brought home a bad report card, did not speak with respect, spoke ill of
the teacher or the preacher, or if I didn't put forth my best effort in
everything asked of me.

I was drug to the kitchen sink to have my mouth washed out with soap if I
uttered a profanity. I was drug out to pull weeds in mom's garden and
flower beds and cockleburs out of dad's fields.

Now that is what many call child abuse. I personally was spanked by a piece of wood by the woodpile when I was a kid when my family lived in northern Wisconsin! That stung like hell and never did it again.

and in spite of that, you still have a "love" for playboy bunnies. Yep, that seals the deal, you were "irreparably" harmed as a child. You should SUE your father for preventing you from becoming the "man" you could have been. :wink:

[ahaha]

What the hell is this crap?

So this little speal wants to lay some blame for the Virginia Tech massacre on:

-Madeline Murray O-Hare for defending us from zealots who want to force their religion on others

-Dr. Spock for his theories on child rearing

-Those responsible for making it illegal for teachers to BEAT our children

-And, of course, the entertainment industry for making shows we want to see and music we want to hear.



These Dear God e-mails are always so corny and ridiculous.

[mraynrand]

-Madeline Murray O-Hare for defending us from zealots who want to force their religion on others


What is this crap? Why do people go to such extremes, somehow extrapolating the desire to allow school prayer into 'zealots forcing their religion on others.' Try reading the history of Islam. There are countless examples of zealots forcing their religion on others - either you convert or you are beheaded. That's zealotry. Separation of church and state was only meant to prevent the state from establishing an official state religion. Prayer in school doesn't necessarily make any religious claims whatsoever and has nothing to do with separation of church and state. For GOD'S sake, you could call it 'personal reflection time' and thus allow kids to think about whatever they want. The funny thing is that our culture has swung so far that the nuts on the left don't even realize how they've corrupted original intent.

[GrnBay007]

Prayer in school doesn't necessarily make any religious claims whatsoever and has nothing to do with separation of church and state. For GOD'S sake, you could call it 'personal reflection time' and thus allow kids to think about whatever they want.

Amen!! :P

What took the cake for me was when I heard the Boy Scouts couldn't meet at the public school because they would be reciting their Oath.....which includes the word God. Unreal!!

[Joemailman]

I am inclined to believe that whether children are brought up in a religious atmosphere at home is more important than whether or not there is prayer in schools. I went to a Catholic grade school for 8 years followed by 4 years at a public high school. My faith and values did not change when going to a public school, because what I learned at home had a much greater impact on me than whether or not the school I was attending had prayer or not. The values a child learns at home is what matters, and setting aside a few moments for prayer, or "personal reflection" in school isn't going to change that.

[Zool]

I am inclined to believe that whether children are brought up in a religious atmosphere at home is more important than whether or not there is prayer in schools. I went to a Catholic grade school for 8 years followed by 4 years at a public high school. My faith and values did not change when going to a public school, because what I learned at home had a much greater impact on me than whether or not the school I was attending had prayer or not. The values a child learns at home is what matters, and setting aside a few moments for prayer, or "personal reflection" in school isn't going to change that.Thank you Joe Mailman. Blaming the public school systems lack of a religious time out is ridiculous. Children with parents that take the time to talk with their kids and interact with them tend to be the best kids.

Why are people always looking outward to figure out whats wrong with society?

[mraynrand]

Why are people always looking outward to figure out whats wrong with society?

By definition, you cannot do otherwise.

At issue is not whether trying to promote school prayer at this point is a good thing, but whether it was a good thing for the supreme court to incorrectly rule that school prayer was unconstitutional, based on the establishment clause. I argue that not only was it a bad ruling, as the reasoning was flawed, but it's also a bad ruling because the will of the majority was usurped, ostensibly because some people felt uncomfortable or 'left out' by school prayer. I argue that this is nonsense because it's easy to make such school prayer optional and/or call it something else to allow for individual choice. If school prayer can be banned, why not ban any display of religious belief in public, based on the establishment clause and/or because it makes some among the vast minority 'uncomfortable?'

[Zool]

Kids have a huge need to feel accepted and fit in with the crowd. If a child is in a class where 75% students are doing something then they will want to do it too just to fit in and not be the outcast.

I'm all for doing whatever you want assuming it doesnt bother others. If you feel prayer during school is best for your child, then by all means, talk to the teacher and let them know that your kid will need a minute out of every day to pray. I would be willing to bet that kid would not sit off by himself or herself to pray because they would feel self conscious.

What about the agnostics? Do their rights mean less than the religious?

[MJZiggy]

What took the cake for me was when I heard the Boy Scouts couldn't meet at the public school because they would be reciting their Oath.....which includes the word God. Unreal!!

Well, that's just stupid.

[ahaha]

-Madeline Murray O-Hare for defending us from zealots who want to force their religion on others


What is this crap? Why do people go to such extremes, somehow extrapolating the desire to allow school prayer into 'zealots forcing their religion on others.' Try reading the history of Islam. There are countless examples of zealots forcing their religion on others - either you convert or you are beheaded. That's zealotry. Separation of church and state was only meant to prevent the state from establishing an official state religion. Prayer in school doesn't necessarily make any religious claims whatsoever and has nothing to do with separation of church and state. For GOD'S sake, you could call it 'personal reflection time' and thus allow kids to think about whatever they want. The funny thing is that our culture has swung so far that the nuts on the left don't even realize how they've corrupted original intent.

Maybe 'zealot' doesn't accrurately represent all who supported this, but there were definately some in the crowd. Your muslim example doesn't set the definition. It still doesn't justify saying this had anything to do with the VT massacre.
And you and I disagree with the reason for seperation of church and state. Religion should be for the home, not public education. If a kid wants to pray, let him do it at recess. Don't force a "personal reflection time" on everybody so the non-religious can feel inferior because their not praying.

[mraynrand]

-Madeline Murray O-Hare for defending us from zealots who want to force their religion on others


What is this crap? Why do people go to such extremes, somehow extrapolating the desire to allow school prayer into 'zealots forcing their religion on others.' Try reading the history of Islam. There are countless examples of zealots forcing their religion on others - either you convert or you are beheaded. That's zealotry. Separation of church and state was only meant to prevent the state from establishing an official state religion. Prayer in school doesn't necessarily make any religious claims whatsoever and has nothing to do with separation of church and state. For GOD'S sake, you could call it 'personal reflection time' and thus allow kids to think about whatever they want. The funny thing is that our culture has swung so far that the nuts on the left don't even realize how they've corrupted original intent.

Maybe 'zealot' doesn't accrurately represent all who supported this, but there were definately some in the crowd. Your muslim example doesn't set the definition. It still doesn't justify saying this had anything to do with the VT massacre.
And you and I disagree with the reason for seperation of church and state. Religion should be for the home, not public education. If a kid wants to pray, let him do it at recess. Don't force a "personal reflection time" on everybody so the non-religious can feel inferior because their not praying.

Two points: I don't think banning of school prayer necessarily led to the massacre and I am not in favor of school prayer (though I think a time for silent reflection would be a reasonable compromise). I think that the degradation of the culture may be a contributing factor to the massacre, but I think that would be very hard to prove. I am a strong advocate of original intent and the proper role of the judiciary, and many of the Supreme Court rulings I think are unconstitutional. I think the Supreme Court is by design a conservative body, so that broad trends and changes in our society can be brought about through legislation and amendment where necessary, and therefore will likely reflect the attitudes of the overwhelming majority of the populace.

As far as agnostics and atheists, I feel for them being in the minority, but that's part of life. In my work and community, I am surrounded by a vast liberal majority, but I'm not running to the Supreme Court to 'remedy' the situation.

[MJZiggy]

When I was growing up, I had a friend who came from India. They prayed, but they prayed differently than the majority of people in our school, so when issues of prayer in school came up, she was always excused from the class and made to wait in the hall. I can tell you with absolute certainty that every time it happened, she was absolutely mortified for the attention and felt completely excluded. And not just for the 10 minutes or so she was out of the classroom.

As to the other stuff, I don't believe it necessary to physically punish my kid to get him to learn what's right and wrong in life. We tried it once when he was little, and the kid dug in his heels and dared us to try it again. So instead we started using our imaginations and ended up with a great kid that is not aggressive, thinks of others first, and is quite often complimented by servers and little old ladies on his wonderful manners--because he knows he's not gonna get what he wants if a please doesn't come with the request. He has been taught to treat everyone from his "elders" to his "subordinates" with respect. The reason is that he has no subordinates as there is no such thing.

And if his teacher or principal ever decided that beating my kid was a good idea, they would be reminded by his mother what it feels like to be hit. Last week, my son had a small behavior issue in class. His teacher mentioned it to me and by yesterday afternoon, his behavior was perfect. I never laid a hand on him, but his actions were corrected. That is my job. Not his teacher's. The problem is not school people not being able to hit the children. The problem is parents not doing what they should to correct behavior when problems come to their attention.

And yes, I am an agnostic. Religion doesn't offend me, because by definition, agnostics are unsure. The athiests might have a different view.

By the logic of the original post, God should have protected the VT students because it is a college, not a high school where you can take things like comparative religion and theology, and the students in the dorm should surely have been protected because prayer is certainly allowed in the dorms.

Also using that model, NONE of these things ever should have happened, because God should have been there to heal the sick minds that came up with these horrific plans in the first place. The world does not work that way. The only part of that post I partially agree with is the entertainment, but that also can be pointed back at parents who are supposed to be responsible for monitoring what their kids are using for entertainment. I've known far too many little kids using first person shooter games that I wouldn't let my kid near until he was an adult. I think I'm done now. Have at it.

[pacfan]

Zig, an amazing, simply amazing post.

[Zool]

Seconded

Instead of looking for why something happened, why not look to see how it could be prevented in the future.

[K-town]

Seconded

Instead of looking for why something happened, why not look to see how it could be prevented in the future.

Because in hindsight, everyone's vision is 20-20.
Looking forward, it's a lot of myopic, one eyed people leading the blind.
Except for me.
:roll:

[packinpatland]

When I was growing up, I had a friend who came from India. They prayed, but they prayed differently than the majority of people in our school, so when issues of prayer in school came up, she was always excused from the class and made to wait in the hall. I can tell you with absolute certainty that every time it happened, she was absolutely mortified for the attention and felt completely excluded. And not just for the 10 minutes or so she was out of the classroom.

As to the other stuff, I don't believe it necessary to physically punish my kid to get him to learn what's right and wrong in life. We tried it once when he was little, and the kid dug in his heels and dared us to try it again. So instead we started using our imaginations and ended up with a great kid that is not aggressive, thinks of others first, and is quite often complimented by servers and little old ladies on his wonderful manners--because he knows he's not gonna get what he wants if a please doesn't come with the request. He has been taught to treat everyone from his "elders" to his "subordinates" with respect. The reason is that he has no subordinates as there is no such thing.

And if his teacher or principal ever decided that beating my kid was a good idea, they would be reminded by his mother what it feels like to be hit. Last week, my son had a small behavior issue in class. His teacher mentioned it to me and by yesterday afternoon, his behavior was perfect. I never laid a hand on him, but his actions were corrected. That is my job. Not his teacher's. The problem is not school people not being able to hit the children. The problem is parents not doing what they should to correct behavior when problems come to their attention.

And yes, I am an agnostic. Religion doesn't offend me, because by definition, agnostics are unsure. The athiests might have a different view.

By the logic of the original post, God should have protected the VT students because it is a college, not a high school where you can take things like comparative religion and theology, and the students in the dorm should surely have been protected because prayer is certainly allowed in the dorms.

Also using that model, NONE of these things ever should have happened, because God should have been there to heal the sick minds that came up with these horrific plans in the first place. The world does not work that way. The only part of that post I partially agree with is the entertainment, but that also can be pointed back at parents who are supposed to be responsible for monitoring what their kids are using for entertainment. I've known far too many little kids using first person shooter games that I wouldn't let my kid near until he was an adult. I think I'm done now. Have at it.

Wow.
Seriously, do you teach parenting classes? Your son is a lucky little guy.

[Merlin]

The sad part about society is that somewhere someone came up with the great idea to allow the government to dictate how a child should be raised. Public schools and the rules (or lack thereof) are a byproduct of this decision.

People truly believe that it takes a village to raise a child and that is sad.

[Partial]

The sad part about society is that somewhere someone came up with the great idea to allow the government to dictate how a child should be raised. Public schools and the rules (or lack thereof) are a byproduct of this decision.

People truly believe that it takes a village to raise a child and that is sad.

Yes but what good are private schools? They don't have quality teachers because they don't pay well-enough(unless we're talking the upscale ones). Also, they don't have government funding to get textbooks, school supplies, etc.

American school system is crap until you get to university. Then we are leaps and bounds ahead of the rest of the world.

[Merlin]

The sad part about society is that somewhere someone came up with the great idea to allow the government to dictate how a child should be raised. Public schools and the rules (or lack thereof) are a byproduct of this decision.

People truly believe that it takes a village to raise a child and that is sad.

Yes but what good are private schools? They don't have quality teachers because they don't pay well-enough(unless we're talking the upscale ones). Also, they don't have government funding to get textbooks, school supplies, etc.

American school system is crap until you get to university. Then we are leaps and bounds ahead of the rest of the world.

1) Private schools have as qualified teachers as any public school. Money isn't everything to everyone. Some people actually enjoy teaching. At the local private school there are more teachers with masters degrees in a student population of 600 then the whole public school system in the city combined with a student population of 3,000. They make on average $30,000 a year less then the public school teachers. Many of them have been there for over 10 years. Both public and private in my city have very good educations but the private school students score better and a larger percentage complete college and get better paying jobs. If the teachers are so bad because the money is so bad, how do you explain this?

2) Private schools continually out score public schools in all standardized testing nation wide. (do a Google search and be careful to match apples to apples and not apples to oranges like the teachers union does).

3) Private schools do not get government funding (although they do receive some for hot lunch programs), they are also not bound to the same rules as the public school system. This has a good effect on the overall private system in many ways (too many to list) because the government is NOT involved.

4) Although private schools don't get new text books every year, new computers and whatever, that doesn't mean that they don't make do very well with what they do have. The local private school has a computer lab and it is a hogpoge of computers, all work and do what the student needs them to do. The public school system spend millions every year replacing and upgrading computers for no reason other then to say they have the latest and greatest. In the end, both work the same for their intended purpose. The last word on computers from first hand experience is that at the private school, you cannot use a computer or calculator in ANY math class until you have proven you can do it long hand. At the public school, you learn what buttons to push to give you the answer.

As far as universities, that's your personal opinion. I think most public universities are nothing more then liberal trash that grade people not based on their work but based on an agenda. And that is from first hand experience and my opinion. As fas as being better then the rest of the world, I disagree. There are many schools worldwide that are better then a lot of our universities. Not all western cultures are educated in the US and yet they have no problem kicking our ass in many areas.

[LL2]

The sad part about society is that somewhere someone came up with the great idea to allow the government to dictate how a child should be raised. Public schools and the rules (or lack thereof) are a byproduct of this decision.

People truly believe that it takes a village to raise a child and that is sad.

Yes but what good are private schools? They don't have quality teachers because they don't pay well-enough(unless we're talking the upscale ones). Also, they don't have government funding to get textbooks, school supplies, etc.

American school system is crap until you get to university. Then we are leaps and bounds ahead of the rest of the world.

1) Private schools have as qualified teachers as any public school. Money isn't everything to everyone. Some people actually enjoy teaching. At the local private school there are more teachers with masters degrees in a student population of 600 then the whole public school system in the city combined with a student population of 3,000. They make on average $30,000 a year less then the public school teachers. Many of them have been there for over 10 years. Both public and private in my city have very good educations but the private school students score better and a larger percentage complete college and get better paying jobs. If the teachers are so bad because the money is so bad, how do you explain this?

2) Private schools continually out score public schools in all standardized testing nation wide. (do a Google search and be careful to match apples to apples and not apples to oranges like the teachers union does).

3) Private schools do not get government funding (although they do receive some for hot lunch programs), they are also not bound to the same rules as the public school system. This has a good effect on the overall private system in many ways (too many to list) because the government is NOT involved.

4) Although private schools don't get new text books every year, new computers and whatever, that doesn't mean that they don't make do very well with what they do have. The local private school has a computer lab and it is a hogpoge of computers, all work and do what the student needs them to do. The public school system spend millions every year replacing and upgrading computers for no reason other then to say they have the latest and greatest. In the end, both work the same for their intended purpose. The last word on computers from first hand experience is that at the private school, you cannot use a computer or calculator in ANY math class until you have proven you can do it long hand. At the public school, you learn what buttons to push to give you the answer.

As far as universities, that's your personal opinion. I think most public universities are nothing more then liberal trash that grade people not based on their work but based on an agenda. And that is from first hand experience and my opinion. As fas as being better then the rest of the world, I disagree. There are many schools worldwide that are better then a lot of our universities. Not all western cultures are educated in the US and yet they have no problem kicking our ass in many areas.

A very strong argument Merlin, and I agree with what you say. My family moved a lot. I went to public schools, a Catholic school, a Christian school, and public univeristy (got my bachelors degree). I experienced them all, and I struggled in the Catholic and Christian schools (the Christian school I went to was non-denominational) with getting good grades and always had a couple hours of homework. Where my public school friends never had homework. Looking back I was glad I was sent to those schools, but not sure now that as a parent i will send my kids to a private school. The reasons are part financial and partly because in the Chicago suburb we live in the schools are small compared to the majority and have a really high rate of sending kids to college (we pay high taxes :( ). If my wife and I can afford it though I would like to send our kids to a private school for their elementary years, but a friend said they would do the opposite and send the kids to private school during the HS years if it came down to a choice. Parenting comes with a lot of decisions, but even the small private schools do not lack in education compared with public schools. The only area they might lack is extra-curricular activities, where public schools get a lot of funding for that.

[Merlin]

We are lucky up here. Our Catholic school system has what they call "fair share" tuition. You pledge how much you can afford and if it isn't the full tuition, you sit down with a financial adviser and they go over your finances and make sure you are being honest. Over half of the students that attend our schools do not pay full tuition. The parish subsidy makes up about 25% of the tuition, private donations make up about 15% and you pay about 60% or what you can afford to pay. Try moving up here :).