Most Disgusting offseason/draft in recent memory

[Packers4Glory]

moss goes for a 4.....Packers pass On Michael Bush who has 1st round talent and go w/ a Brandon Jackson..blah. They made no improvement in FA..Really one could go on and on on how disappointing this yr has been. I don't feel too bad about the 1st pick, but the rest of the draft is questionable at best thus far and the offseason signings and trades that were there has been a huge bust...and thats an understatement.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Michael Bush blows, and Moss is apparently only willing to renegotiate his contract with New England because he wants to win a Super Bowl.

[BallHawk]

Am I at Packerrats or JSO?

[TennesseePackerBacker]

Or Packerchatters, I just can't believe how everyone is ready to jump off a bridge and we haven't even played 1 game yet.

[GoPackGo]

Michael Bush blows, and Moss is apparently only willing to renegotiate his contract with New England because he wants to win a Super Bowl.

agree, Bush is a straight runner who can't cutback. Moss was a nice pipedream for fAVRE'S sake but he would not have agreed on a trade to the Packers. This isn't TT's fault. Noone should have assumed Randy Moss would want to be a Packer in the fiorst place.

[Lurker64]

moss goes for a 4.....Packers pass On Michael Bush who has 1st round talent and go w/ a Brandon Jackson..blah. They made no improvement in FA..Really one could go on and on on how disappointing this yr has been. I don't feel too bad about the 1st pick, but the rest of the draft is questionable at best thus far and the offseason signings and trades that were there has been a huge bust...and thats an understatement.

1) Moss hasn't been traded yet. Word out of Boston is that the deal fell through, so Moss's status is uncertain. Hell, what I'm hearing is that Moss desperately wanted to win a superbowl ASAP and was only willing to rework his deal if he was traded to a legit superbowl favorite. That's not us. So even if we don't get him, you can't fault TT for not paying the price.

2) Every team in the NFL passed on Michael Bush, several times. We shouldn't have drafted him in the 2nd round because we had two shots at him in the third round. Hell, we might have another shot at him in the fourth round. Bush is still there. You can't get mad at your GM for not drafting a guy in the 2nd if he's still there in the 4th.

3) Free Agency isn't over yet. It's just that the high priced guys are already signed. There were never exactly a lot of guys who are really worth getting worked up over in FA this year in the first place.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Actually, it appears it has. The Boston Globe article is dated at 8AM central, and Schefter's report has come out since then. The trade will indeed happen. If it doesn't, Moss will still not be a Packer.

[GBRulz]

Well, to be honest, I wasn't too thrilled about last years draft, either. Other than Hawk. Yet it seemed to turn out pretty good...and you can't compare what you get at #5 to #16. We are due to get a sleeper in a later round, let's hope that this is the year! Just have to wait and see how it pans out.

[mmmdk]

Michael Bush blows, and Moss is apparently only willing to renegotiate his contract with New England because he wants to win a Super Bowl.

Packers should want to win a Super Bowl or die trying. Packers are administering long-term artificial respiration to prevent death.

[cpk1994]

moss goes for a 4.....Packers pass On Michael Bush who has 1st round talent and go w/ a Brandon Jackson..blah. They made no improvement in FA..Really one could go on and on on how disappointing this yr has been. I don't feel too bad about the 1st pick, but the rest of the draft is questionable at best thus far and the offseason signings and trades that were there has been a huge bust...and thats an understatement.

1) Moss hasn't been traded yet. Word out of Boston is that the deal fell through, so Moss's status is uncertain. Hell, what I'm hearing is that Moss desperately wanted to win a superbowl ASAP and was only willing to rework his deal if he was traded to a legit superbowl favorite. That's not us. So even if we don't get him, you can't fault TT for not paying the price.

2) Every team in the NFL passed on Michael Bush, several times. We shouldn't have drafted him in the 2nd round because we had two shots at him in the third round. Hell, we might have another shot at him in the fourth round. Bush is still there. You can't get mad at your GM for not drafting a guy in the 2nd if he's still there in the 4th.

3) Free Agency isn't over yet. It's just that the high priced guys are already signed. There were never exactly a lot of guys who are really worth getting worked up over in FA this year in the first place.

Word out of ESPN as their draft coverage came on the air is He is in Boston as is a patriot. And that was at the same time as your post.

[Packers4Glory]

someone tell me how this team improved talent wise? we have no #3 WR and questionable #2 who disappeared in the 2nd half....yeah, the WR corps is in some bad bad shape. hey, maybe fergy will step it up.....lol

Apparently most of you have never seen the healthy Michael Bush. He sucks? haha ok. Teams were scared by the injury not his skills.

we have seen nothing of Morency that says he can handle the starting role. We have no TE who can get open and catch the football. I think we'll be just fine defensively if we can find a safety...but offensively this team is in sorry sorry shape.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Michael Bush = Da Poop

He doesn't fit a one cut scheme

[mraynrand]

Am I at Packerrats or JSO?

You're at Rats. JSO = "BEAR DOWN PISS AND MOLD CLOWNS." And LJ is still there, but his favorite target is a guy called "Sheepshead." That entire place is dead.

[Kiwon]

I thought LJ died or was dying of cancer and repented of his sins. Is this LJ Sr., LJ Jr., or LJ III? Oh boy, male soap operas. I can't keep the plot lines straight.

I guess people need something to do when wrestling isn't on.

Anyway, he isn't here and that's why I'm here. Thanks PR Security Team!

[BooHoo]

I do not know any of the guys we picked. But so what. I am no judge of talent and give TT some room. He pulled off a fairly good (at least it appears) last year. It will take a few years to properly judge how this draft went.

The other issue is our lack of work in FA. For most of us we judge the success or failure of FA on how active we have been or the number of signings. Thus, if we have a lot of signings we did well and if we did not have any we did poorly. It appears that more signings doesn't always equal improving your team. Just ask Washington. However, that said, I wonder why TT hasn't been a little more agressive in FA given our cap space and the need to fill some holes. As I posted in another thread, couldn't TT find at least one FA out there who would improve our team and still keep us finacially solvent.

IMHO. Okay, you are free to disagree.

[retailguy]

As I posted in another thread, couldn't TT find at least one FA out there who would improve our team and still keep us finacially solvent.



No, he couldn't.

[motife]

Michael Bush blows, and Moss is apparently only willing to renegotiate his contract with New England because he wants to win a Super Bowl.

Brandon Jackson is a STUD. A good receiver out of the backfield, fits the zone blocking system to a T with his north/south, instant decision making, and ability to instinctively change direction, and knowledge of the West Coast offense.

Justin Harrell is a STUD. You can NEVER go wrong drafting for the trenches. Or drafting defense.

Moss's agent said yesterday he would ONLY re-negotiate his contract with the Patriots. And.. the Patriots relented on their 4th round pick being conditional.

put me down as a HAPPY CAMPER...

[Bretsky]

Michael Bush blows, and Moss is apparently only willing to renegotiate his contract with New England because he wants to win a Super Bowl.

Brandon Jackson is a STUD. A good receiver out of the backfield, fits the zone blocking system to a T with his north/south, instant decision making, and ability to instinctively change direction, and knowledge of the West Coast offense.

Justin Harrell is a STUD. You can NEVER go wrong drafting for the trenches. Or drafting defense.

Moss's agent said yesterday he would ONLY re-negotiate his contract with the Patriots. And.. the Patriots relented on their 4th round pick being conditional.

put me down as a HAPPY CAMPER...

Jackson could be good; I'm Pessimistically optomistic on our first and third round picks. I'm not sure if we've improved any more than the rest of the division we compete against next year.

[retailguy]

I'm kind of intrigued with Jackson myself... That wasn't a bad pick. Harrell was risky but not a bad pick either.

Expecting too much out of them for 07 is a mistake, though....

we need to rely on Morency and Williams, for at least the 1st half of the season.

[oregonpackfan]

" I'm Pessimistically optomistic?"

Wow, I have never heard that phrase before, Bretsky. It sounds like someone with a split personality! :)

[GrnBay007]

" I'm Pessimistically optomistic?"

Wow, I have never heard that phrase before, Bretsky. It sounds like someone with a split personality! :)

That could be B! :P :wink:

[Bretsky]

" I'm Pessimistically optomistic?"

Wow, I have never heard that phrase before, Bretsky. It sounds like someone with a split personality! :)


lol; yes I made that up.

One one hand I want to believe if TT hits on these he's making us much better in 2009 or so.

On the other hand I want to throw him on a frying pan for not addressing our immediate needs for 2007 via the draft and free agency well enough.

Is this team as is better prepared to be a contender than the 8-8 squad on paper we just saw win the last four ?

I'm Pessimistically optomistic.

[red]

I'm kind of intrigued with Jackson myself... That wasn't a bad pick. Harrell was risky but not a bad pick either.

Expecting too much out of them for 07 is a mistake, though....

we need to rely on Morency and Williams, for at least the 1st half of the season.

jackson looks good when you read about his strengths, but what scares me is the fact that he's never been "THE GUY". he's never been the feature back, and thats exactly what we need him to be

i'm not sure if morency is good enough to make this a decent 1-2 punch. seems to me more like a 2-2 punch

harrell bothers me for two reasons. one is the injury bug. he was hurt most of last year with a pretty serious injury, plus he was also injured his original freshman year, and was red shirted, then broke his ankle and missed time his redshirt year. so the guy des have the injury bug. the second thing that worries me is that he is not considered a pass rusher, but a run stuffer, but he's only 300 pounds. that seems light to me for a run stuffer. i'm worried he doesn't have the talent to rush, and he'll be too small to hold up the middle

the wr we got in the 3rd bothers me because he sounds like another driver jennings type WR which we already had two of. he was not the play maker deep theat we need so bad.

then rouse, you gotta ask, is he really better the underwood or culver? reading up on him he sounded just like roman or manuel

just not happy, we needed a lot out of this draft because of our inactivity in FA, but to me it looks like we didn't try to hard to seriously fill the holes we failed to fill earlier this offseason

[retailguy]

just not happy, we needed a lot out of this draft because of our inactivity in FA, but to me it looks like we didn't try to hard to seriously fill the holes we failed to fill earlier this offseason


We're filling holes for 2009, and PERHAPS, 2008. There was no goal to fill them for 2007.

You know that, and now, so does everyone else...

This team could be good in a couple of seasons. I like that. I just don't like where we're headed in 2007.

[run pMc]

I won't call it the most disgusting ever.

Some of the picks were big head-scratchers, but I agree TT is drafting for about the 2009-10 season. 3 years is usually enough time to see how a draft class works out. That said, I think some of these guys are gonna be thrown in the fire. If Jones is a DD clone, that's OK with me...in 2009-10 DD will probably be gone. As for Harrell, drafting for a strong D will the post-Favre years (and sadly, they aren't faraway) in mind is a good idea. This team is not good enough to win without him right now, but in 2-3 years it might be. The in-between will be interesting to watch.

IMO drafting is part art, part science, and part luck. If you have more draft choices (by trading down), you're more likely to hit on one of them, right? Call it the "even a blind squirrel will find a nut" theory. We got a few extra choices this year, so who knows? Let's get these guys into camp and see if they're any good at the pro level before we jump off the bridge.

[Deputy Nutz]

How easily we forget about the 2003 draft.

Carroll
Thomas
Washington
Sander

Do those names ring a bell?

This draft doesn't even come close.

[Partial]

How easily we forget about the 2003 draft.

Carroll
Thomas
Washington
Sander

Do those names ring a bell?

This draft doesn't even come close.

So what do you think of this draft Deputy?

[esoxx]

How easily we forget about the 2003 draft.

Carroll
Thomas
Washington
Sander

Do those names ring a bell?

This draft doesn't even come close.

---------------------------------------------------------------



It could, we don't know yet. It could also turn out to an '00 draft. Guess we'll see.

[Joemailman]

I'm kind of intrigued with Jackson myself... That wasn't a bad pick. Harrell was risky but not a bad pick either.

Expecting too much out of them for 07 is a mistake, though....

we need to rely on Morency and Williams, for at least the 1st half of the season.

Who is Williams? :cnf:

[RashanGary]

How easily we forget about the 2003 draft.

Carroll
Thomas
Washington
Sander

Do those names ring a bell?

This draft doesn't even come close.]

Hey, those guys are a good part of the core of thsi team. Oh wait...

[Deputy Nutz]

How easily we forget about the 2003 draft.

Carroll
Thomas
Washington
Sander

Do those names ring a bell?

This draft doesn't even come close.

So what do you think of this draft Deputy?

I didn't much care for the 6th round of this draft, but Thompson waited until the 7th round to address some late needs.

[Noodle]

Random thoughts follow, with the first riff playing off the Deputy:

Didn't the Pack also pick up Corey Williams and Scotty Wells in that draft? Wells is going to be the starting center for years to come, and I thought Williams played well last year, though he can't be feeling all that great after this weekend.

Now on to some picks:

I'm a Nebraska guy, and I like Jackson, but he's no Ahman Green. At best, he'll get you 15 on a big run, maybe 20, but Jackson doesn't have the gear to hit the home run, and he's not a bruiser who can pick up 2 yards when there's nothing there. I've seen him play -- quick wiggle, but no explosion and no burners. But he can move chains and catch the ball.

I'm going to go on record, such as it is -- we should have bit the bullet and taken Olsen at 16 instead of Harrell. Not enough junk in his trunk to stuff the run, and he's cursed. Sure a 16 was too high for Olsen, but it was too high for Harrell, and I want a seam buster at TE fer cripes sake.

Finally, I'm saying that Clowney, though burdened with an unfortunate name, will be the PR/KR we've been needing. This guy will make us love this draft. Mark my words. (Of course, I also predicted that gold would spill out of my hinder, but the night's still young).

[Packers4Glory]

NFC is there for the taking and we stood pat and probably took a step back.

One area where we had a big need for improvement was special teams, and maybe some of these picks bumped us up a bit, but I still don't know how we are going to score.

WR depth and talent looks really weak as does the RB corps. TE Bubba is only a threat in the red zone, and that is questionable at this stage.


This is the only place I've seen any mention that Moss agent said he'd only renegotiate w/ that Pats...plus Jackson was available and ten times better than any of our #4 picks will likely every be.

TT picks seem to be of someone who reaches a lot in his picks hoping to hit a big one so he can have some sort of bragging rights on how much smarter he is. than everyone else. He continues to trade down and "stockpile" these late round picks which he did last yr. To me you can't keep doing that every yr, at some point you have to draft BPA at your top needs and quit trading down. Hell he could have traded down and still got his 1st rounder later. If they were sitting there and set on Harrell, that was the time to trade down.

This team has severe weaknesses on offense, and I can't believe anyone can really believe we addressed those.

[the_idle_threat]

http://www.myplanet.net/donberg/bookdraft/img/11926.jpg

[HarveyWallbangers]

NFC is there for the taking and we stood pat and probably took a step back.

One area where we had a big need for improvement was special teams, and maybe some of these picks bumped us up a bit, but I still don't know how we are going to score.

WR depth and talent looks really weak as does the RB corps. TE Bubba is only a threat in the red zone, and that is questionable at this stage.


This is the only place I've seen any mention that Moss agent said he'd only renegotiate w/ that Pats...plus Jackson was available and ten times better than any of our #4 picks will likely every be.

TT picks seem to be of someone who reaches a lot in his picks hoping to hit a big one so he can have some sort of bragging rights on how much smarter he is. than everyone else. He continues to trade down and "stockpile" these late round picks which he did last yr. To me you can't keep doing that every yr, at some point you have to draft BPA at your top needs and quit trading down. Hell he could have traded down and still got his 1st rounder later. If they were sitting there and set on Harrell, that was the time to trade down.

This team has severe weaknesses on offense, and I can't believe anyone can really believe we addressed those.

I'm disappointed in FA--more than this draft. I don't think TT is trying to look smart. According to Mike Shanahan, Denver had targeted Harrell, so we likely wouldn't have been able to move down far to get him.

[Packers4Glory]

NFC is there for the taking and we stood pat and probably took a step back.

One area where we had a big need for improvement was special teams, and maybe some of these picks bumped us up a bit, but I still don't know how we are going to score.

WR depth and talent looks really weak as does the RB corps. TE Bubba is only a threat in the red zone, and that is questionable at this stage.


This is the only place I've seen any mention that Moss agent said he'd only renegotiate w/ that Pats...plus Jackson was available and ten times better than any of our #4 picks will likely every be.

TT picks seem to be of someone who reaches a lot in his picks hoping to hit a big one so he can have some sort of bragging rights on how much smarter he is. than everyone else. He continues to trade down and "stockpile" these late round picks which he did last yr. To me you can't keep doing that every yr, at some point you have to draft BPA at your top needs and quit trading down. Hell he could have traded down and still got his 1st rounder later. If they were sitting there and set on Harrell, that was the time to trade down.

This team has severe weaknesses on offense, and I can't believe anyone can really believe we addressed those.

I'm disappointed in FA--more than this draft. I don't think TT is trying to look smart. According to Mike Shanahan, Denver had targeted Harrell, so we likely wouldn't have been able to move down far to get him.

is there a quote somewhere that shows Shanahan talking about that?

[packrulz]

Every year we look our mocks and are disappointed when TT doesn't take guys we know. TT went to the combine, talked to the players, and watched all the film, I think he feels he picked the best athletes availiable. I think Miami reached, so did Houston and a couple others, at least he didn't trade up to get a punter. ST will be better this year, I think he improved overall depth and competition for jobs. The other NFC North teams had good drafts too though. We'll see, the roster is pretty big right now, we'll see who makes the final cut.

[BallHawk]

I'm kind of intrigued with Jackson myself... That wasn't a bad pick. Harrell was risky but not a bad pick either.

Expecting too much out of them for 07 is a mistake, though....

we need to rely on Morency and Williams, for at least the 1st half of the season.

Who is Williams? :cnf:

I think he means we have to rely on Morency before we go to Jackson and we have to rely on Corey Williams until we can rely on Harrell.

[SudsMcBucky]

Hell he could have traded down and still got his 1st rounder later. If they were sitting there and set on Harrell, that was the time to trade down.



They could be wrong, but there were numerous reports during the draft, especially Mort, that stated TT WAS trying to trade down, but that everyone was trying to and couldn't find any takers without coming out on the short-end in a big way.

[retailguy]

I'm kind of intrigued with Jackson myself... That wasn't a bad pick. Harrell was risky but not a bad pick either.

Expecting too much out of them for 07 is a mistake, though....

we need to rely on Morency and Williams, for at least the 1st half of the season.

Who is Williams? :cnf:

I think he means we have to rely on Morency before we go to Jackson and we have to rely on Corey Williams until we can rely on Harrell.

Yes, correct. Thank you.

[Rastak]

NFC is there for the taking and we stood pat and probably took a step back.

One area where we had a big need for improvement was special teams, and maybe some of these picks bumped us up a bit, but I still don't know how we are going to score.

WR depth and talent looks really weak as does the RB corps. TE Bubba is only a threat in the red zone, and that is questionable at this stage.


This is the only place I've seen any mention that Moss agent said he'd only renegotiate w/ that Pats...plus Jackson was available and ten times better than any of our #4 picks will likely every be.

TT picks seem to be of someone who reaches a lot in his picks hoping to hit a big one so he can have some sort of bragging rights on how much smarter he is. than everyone else. He continues to trade down and "stockpile" these late round picks which he did last yr. To me you can't keep doing that every yr, at some point you have to draft BPA at your top needs and quit trading down. Hell he could have traded down and still got his 1st rounder later. If they were sitting there and set on Harrell, that was the time to trade down.

This team has severe weaknesses on offense, and I can't believe anyone can really believe we addressed those.

I'm disappointed in FA--more than this draft. I don't think TT is trying to look smart. According to Mike Shanahan, Denver had targeted Harrell, so we likely wouldn't have been able to move down far to get him.

is there a quote somewhere that shows Shanahan talking about that?


I heard him say that on an interview on the NFLN yesterday. He did say that.

[Partial]

[quote=retailguy]
he second thing that worries me is that he is not considered a pass rusher, but a run stuffer, but he's only 300 pounds. that seems light to me for a run stuffer. i'm worried he doesn't have the talent to rush, and he'll be too small to hold up the middle

He's going to be a passrusher. One of his strengths is his ability to disengage and make a play in the backfield. He did not have a lot of sacks, but he did have many tackles for a loss. He has a similiar body to Tommy Harris, but an inch taller with longer arms. Hopefully he can disengage as well and be as disruptive. If he can be, you can completely forgive TT for making this choice.

[Zool]

If he plays up to his draft status, Hawk, Barnett and whomever will look that much better.

[Cheesehead Craig]

We love to "grade" drafts instantly too much. Yes, I'll agree the picks are headscratchers, but we just have to wait and see how they perform on the field before we can see how they are.

As for Jackson, he was not meant to the THE GUY. TT is building a RB-by-committee approach to avoid paying the big bucks for one big back and to also make finding another back easier should one go down. There are plenty of above avg backs that can go 12-15 carries/game and be fairly effective that can then give you fresh legs throughout the game. TT is looking at that and putting his eggs in the ZBS basket to make this gamble pay off.

[MasonCrosby]

there is still a chance that TT could work a trade or sign someone cut by another team that has depth at say, the WR position. i don't think it's likely we'll see a big trade, but there is still plenty of time to make some moves...

[gureski]

Here's what I have to say after this weekend:

1. I was listening to draft coverage on multiple radio stations while doing yard work this weekend and kept hearing over and over how Harrell wasn't on the short list of the people commentating. I kept hearing how the hosts and the people calling the shows saying how Thompson reached and paniced and reacted because THEY didn't know Harrell. One host actually called the pick one of the biggest reaches of all-time saying, "nobody amongst us or here at NAME OF BAR had Harrell on their short-list. Harrell wasn't on anyone's short-list here. It's absolutely a reach."

I heard that and just shook my head. I guess Thompson's real mistake was not knowing that all the REAL experts were at this crappy sports bar, huh? Give me a damn break. Because a player isn't on the short list of a radio show host or the fans, then that means that player was a reach? That's just ridiculous and it shows the assenine fanaticism that some people portray in their mentality. Sure, Thompson and all the scouts are bumbling idiots because the player they picked wasn't on the short-list of a bunch of idiot radio show hosts and their no-life fans that followed them to a dingy bar to play pretend-expert for a few hours on a Saturday afternoon. And I do not rip all people who may have gone to a sports bar to take in a draft day party. Just the people that followed this particular moronic group of idiots.

2. Trading requires two sides. I love the guys that complain that Thompson should've made a trade. Up, down, both....he should've tried to trade the pick or he should've traded the pick. HOW DO YOU KNOW HE DIDN'T TRY? All comments I've heard is that he tried to trade up AND he tried to trade down but didn't get anyone that was willing to be the other side of a deal! Word is, from multiple sources, that Thompson made the push for Moss but that Moss ended up screwing that up. Thompson did what he could. You don't give picks away. His trading down in the 2nd round and picking up an extra 3d was fantastic.

[ahaha]

I think Thompson drafted for need a little more than some realize.

- What are the keys to our Bates-like defense? Good fast linebackers and having big beefy DT's to clog up the middle.
- Jackson's strengths are classic for a ZBS runner: quick decisive cuts, runs well in traffic, and great at the cutback.
-And, the OT we got is super-athletic. ZBS guy all the way. Fast enough to be a gunner in college.
-We got two recievers. They're is going to be some heated competition for the 3rd, 4th, and 5th recievers spot. Competition is good here, look what happened for New Orleans last year.
-The LB/FB projects to be a special teams demon.
-Kicker could help us immmediately.

[RIPackerFan]

Great Post - ahaha.

I think you are completely right. When they drafted the DT - I thought the very thought you mentioned. Also, the RB is perfect for the ZBS.

I even think that even if Lynch was available, we would not have taken him - prefering this guy in the later run (more of a proto-typical ZBS back).

I am pissed that we didn't get Moss and I know Favre is too. I am hoping he uses his anger on the field.

[Lurker64]

The encouraging thing about the fact that Denver was targetting Harrell is the fact that we're still running a Bates defense, and Jim Bates was brought in to be the architect of the Denver defense in the offseason. So the guy is almost certainly a good fit for the scheme, and if Bates wanted him I probably want him too.

(I'd also like Jim Bates back)

[swede]

Here's what I have to say after this weekend:

1. I was listening to draft coverage on multiple radio stations while doing yard work this weekend and kept hearing over and over how Harrell wasn't on the short list of the people commentating. I kept hearing how the hosts and the people calling the shows saying how Thompson reached and paniced and reacted because THEY didn't know Harrell. One host actually called the pick one of the biggest reaches of all-time saying, "nobody amongst us or here at NAME OF BAR had Harrell on their short-list. Harrell wasn't on anyone's short-list here. It's absolutely a reach."

I heard that and just shook my head. I guess Thompson's real mistake was not knowing that all the REAL experts were at this crappy sports bar, huh? Give me a damn break. Because a player isn't on the short list of a radio show host or the fans, then that means that player was a reach? That's just ridiculous and it shows the assenine fanaticism that some people portray in their mentality. Sure, Thompson and all the scouts are bumbling idiots because the player they picked wasn't on the short-list of a bunch of idiot radio show hosts and their no-life fans that followed them to a dingy bar to play pretend-expert for a few hours on a Saturday afternoon. And I do not rip all people who may have gone to a sports bar to take in a draft day party. Just the people that followed this particular moronic group of idiots.

2. Trading requires two sides. I love the guys that complain that Thompson should've made a trade. Up, down, both....he should've tried to trade the pick or he should've traded the pick. HOW DO YOU KNOW HE DIDN'T TRY? All comments I've heard is that he tried to trade up AND he tried to trade down but didn't get anyone that was willing to be the other side of a deal! Word is, from multiple sources, that Thompson made the push for Moss but that Moss ended up screwing that up. Thompson did what he could. You don't give picks away. His trading down in the 2nd round and picking up an extra 3d was fantastic.

You see, Gureski, this post is why I am one of your biggest fans. Well spoken, sir. I felt the same way about some of the critics. I scratched my head and said WTF a number of times myself, but I don't know more than TT.

[MasonCrosby]

i agree with those that have the wait and see mentality. i remember a huge fuss last year over the whole vernon davis vs. aj hawk selection with the 5th pick. people said that TT was trying to push favre out by not taking davis. well then davis got hurt and hawk certainly showed us why TT picked him for defense. so i guess that debate is pretty much closed at this point...

[gureski]

Another thing that I forgot to mention to those that are eyeing up the windows on the higher floors in their office.....

Do you realize that Thompson has four all-rookie selections to his credit after only 2 drafts?

Nick Collins, A.J. Hawk, Daryn Colledge, and Greg Jennings.

For those that need help with the math, 11 players are on offense and 11 players are on defense for every team. That means that position-wise, only 22 players a year can make the All-Rookie team. In two years at the helm, Thompson has been recognized as having 4 of the top 44 players picked over the past two years (at their positions).

Why is that impressive?

First, there are 32 teams in the NFL. As stated already, there are 22 All-Rookie spots open every year for position players. Your draft picks have to perform at a level of which they'll be noticed in order to make the All-Rookie team. Four times in two years, Thompson's draft picks have panned out to the tune of All-Rookie.

Second, even Ron Wolf never had three All-Rookie selections. Wolf maxed out with two in 1993 with George Teague and Wayne Simmons. Thompson just had 3 selected to the All-Rookie team last year.

And finally, Thompson's draft picks have proven to be contributing factors. Last year, according to a Bob McGinn article that can be found at:
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=553299
The Packers led the league with rookie every game starters and rookie starts overall.

Thompson and his advisors know how to draft. They've earned your trust when it comes to the draft. It's been sickening to listen to radio show hosts and other misinformed or otherwise free-agent induced angry fans rip Thompson's draft because he didn't run out and draft players in positions where they felt Thompson should've. Are any of those people really basing their opinion on the actual talent of the players they wanted/Thompson passed on, or was this what I believe it to be, a case of fans who merely wanted need picks because common sense tells them things like, we need a TE and the top TE is there so......go get him. Shouldn't it matter what the talent of that player was before you get pissed that the team didn't pick him? Shouldn't it matter what the depth was in the draft at that position before you start ripping Thompson?


I know from my own research on this years players that there is a common thread to almost all of Thompson's picks and that common theme is each of these guys were under the radar a little. You read about their production and their athletic ability and every scout I've read has made some form of comment that states the player has real upside and was pushed down the board a bit due to various circumstances. These guys are talented players that Thompson just picked up but some people don't want to hear that because they don't know the players. These guys weren't media favorites. To that, I say go back and re-live the Jennings pick from last year. How many people were furious over losing out on Jackson to NE and how many said, Jennings who? No reason to think some of this years picks can't turn out the same way. No reason not to believe that a couple of the guys people are pissed about right now wont turn those frowns upside down come the regular season. Bet on it.

[Patler]

Gureski;

I agree with the gist of your post about the all-rookie teams, but some of it also has to do with how bad the team has been . To make the all-rookie team a player has to play. On good teams very few rookies play. They come on their second, third or fourth years to really start contributing. For the Packers the last couple years there are many opportunities for rookies to play right away. Ideally you would hope one of your rookies at most would have to play enough to be considered as a rookie.

The key for TT's success as a drafter will be how many of these "all rookie" guys or others of the starters remain starters 5 years later, or if they have been replaced by yet newer "all rookie" players.

It would be more interesting actually to see an "all sophmore" team, or an "all third-year" team. Those would better indicate true drafting prowess.

[Packnut]

Another thing that I forgot to mention to those that are eyeing up the windows on the higher floors in their office.....

Do you realize that Thompson has four all-rookie selections to his credit after only 2 drafts?

Nick Collins, A.J. Hawk, Daryn Colledge, and Greg Jennings.

For those that need help with the math, 11 players are on offense and 11 players are on defense for every team. That means that position-wise, only 22 players a year can make the All-Rookie team. In two years at the helm, Thompson has been recognized as having 4 of the top 44 players picked over the past two years (at their positions).

Why is that impressive?


Since there are quite a lot of teams who don't start rookies, your post makes no sense. Also, bad teams get better picks and have to start rookies. Since they get better picks, if the scouting dept and GM do their home work the rookies should be good.

It's hilarious here. First the TT backers say you can't judge yesterdays draft for a few years yet they also brag about last years draft and how it was so great. All-rookie team means nothing. Collins was a total disaster for 3/4 of last season. Jennings was MIA after the first 8 or 9 games. Spitz and Colledge showed promise but everyone agrees they need to get stronger in order to be effective. Drinking kool-aid is all fine and dandy and so is having a postive attitude about the team, but let's get the facts and reasons straight........

First, there are 32 teams in the NFL. As stated already, there are 22 All-Rookie spots open every year for position players. Your draft picks have to perform at a level of which they'll be noticed in order to make the All-Rookie team. Four times in two years, Thompson's draft picks have panned out to the tune of All-Rookie.

Second, even Ron Wolf never had three All-Rookie selections. Wolf maxed out with two in 1993 with George Teague and Wayne Simmons. Thompson just had 3 selected to the All-Rookie team last year.

And finally, Thompson's draft picks have proven to be contributing factors. Last year, according to a Bob McGinn article that can be found at:
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=553299
The Packers led the league with rookie every game starters and rookie starts overall.

Thompson and his advisors know how to draft. They've earned your trust when it comes to the draft. It's been sickening to listen to radio show hosts and other misinformed or otherwise free-agent induced angry fans rip Thompson's draft because he didn't run out and draft players in positions where they felt Thompson should've. Are any of those people really basing their opinion on the actual talent of the players they wanted/Thompson passed on, or was this what I believe it to be, a case of fans who merely wanted need picks because common sense tells them things like, we need a TE and the top TE is there so......go get him. Shouldn't it matter what the talent of that player was before you get pissed that the team didn't pick him? Shouldn't it matter what the depth was in the draft at that position before you start ripping Thompson?


I know from my own research on this years players that there is a common thread to almost all of Thompson's picks and that common theme is each of these guys were under the radar a little. You read about their production and their athletic ability and every scout I've read has made some form of comment that states the player has real upside and was pushed down the board a bit due to various circumstances. These guys are talented players that Thompson just picked up but some people don't want to hear that because they don't know the players. These guys weren't media favorites. To that, I say go back and re-live the Jennings pick from last year. How many people were furious over losing out on Jackson to NE and how many said, Jennings who? No reason to think some of this years picks can't turn out the same way. No reason not to believe that a couple of the guys people are pissed about right now wont turn those frowns upside down come the regular season. Bet on it.

[green_bowl_packer]

The encouraging thing about the fact that Denver was targetting Harrell is the fact that we're still running a Bates defense, and Jim Bates was brought in to be the architect of the Denver defense in the offseason. So the guy is almost certainly a good fit for the scheme, and if Bates wanted him I probably want him too.

(I'd also like Jim Bates back)


Evidently not the only one, I have no idea why this was on there at the end of day two. But nice shot of Clowney smoking Leon Hall at the Senior Bowl.

http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=349&videoID=1801&type=broncosTV&year=&month=

[gureski]

Gureski;

I agree with the gist of your post about the all-rookie teams, but some of it also has to do with how bad the team has been . To make the all-rookie team a player has to play. On good teams very few rookies play. They come on their second, third or fourth years to really start contributing. For the Packers the last couple years there are many opportunities for rookies to play right away. Ideally you would hope one of your rookies at most would have to play enough to be considered as a rookie.

The key for TT's success as a drafter will be how many of these "all rookie" guys or others of the starters remain starters 5 years later, or if they have been replaced by yet newer "all rookie" players.

It would be more interesting actually to see an "all sophmore" team, or an "all third-year" team. Those would better indicate true drafting prowess.

The two things that are worth mentioning are:

1. During Sherman's tenure, we had needs and Sherman drafted for needs yet the players he drafted were never able to step in and help the way Thompson's picks are helping. I used to always say to the Sherman-GM supporters that it made no sense why Sherman and his coaching staff could get the Wolf picks ready to play and contribute right away but not many to any of Sherman's picks. Seeing Thompson's picks step up rather quickly and contribute only enforces the point I used to make that it was the calibur of the player drafted, not the coaching that made all the difference. Sure, there are more opportunities because of the state of the team but Sherman's picks, in many instances, didn't even get on the field except for special teams. Thompson's picks are not only good enough to hit the field, they are capable of contributing in the NFL during their rookie years. That reminds me of the kinds of players Ron Wolf used to draft. That's the positive to keep in mind. Yeah, the situation creates openings but not every rookie can step in and fill that bill, even when handed the job.

2. The 4 All Rookie picks are still impressive in that Thompson started with more then what Wolf had to work with and Wolf never had 3 All-Rookie picks in one year. If you go back to the first Wolf-Holmgren years, they turned that roster over like crazy. All spots were open and there were more opportunities for young guys to play and contribute. Thompson's situation, thanks to Wolf's drafting years earlier, was not nearly as bad as Wolf's was so Wolf actually would've had even more spots open for rookies to compete because the teams he took over were worse. That impresses me. Maybe it shouldn't but to top anything Ron Wolf did is one hell of an accomplishment, in my eyes. I don't care if it's eating hot dogs....If Wolf did something impressive and Thompson can top it, that says something to me.

[Patler]

Not sure I agree with your second point. TT has turned over this roster pretty agressively, and the Packers had a few fairly decent drafts before Wolf came on the scene. Bennett, Butler, Jackie Harris, Paup, Jacke, Sharpe, Chuck Cecil, Johnnie Holland, Noble, Ruttgers, Moran and others were there to build on. TT inherited a few younger guys like Wells, Kampman, Barnett and Walker and a few older guys like Driver, Harris Clifton and Tauscher, and a few who's careers were winding down and needed to be replaced soon like Favre, Green, etc. Wolf inherited quite a few ascending players, TT inherited only a couple.

[swede]

Evidently not the only one, I have no idea why this was on there at the end of day two. But nice shot of Clowney smoking Leon Hall at the Senior Bowl.

http://www.denverbroncos.com?page.php?id=349&videoID=1801&type=broncosTV&year=&month=
Check out that vid! Clowney has an intriguing ability to shake his hips and turn around defenders. Wow.

[Charles Woodson]

Another thing that I forgot to mention to those that are eyeing up the windows on the higher floors in their office.....

Do you realize that Thompson has four all-rookie selections to his credit after only 2 drafts?

Nick Collins, A.J. Hawk, Daryn Colledge, and Greg Jennings.

For those that need help with the math, 11 players are on offense and 11 players are on defense for every team. That means that position-wise, only 22 players a year can make the All-Rookie team. In two years at the helm, Thompson has been recognized as having 4 of the top 44 players picked over the past two years (at their positions).

.


Okay so im not neccesarily complaning but if memory serves me correct then between those 2 drafts we had a total of 23 picks. now 23 divided by 4 is .20% thats not that well, yes a few others but idk. how many all rookies do you think we will have this year?

[HarveyWallbangers]

Okay so im not neccesarily complaning but if memory serves me correct then between those 2 drafts we had a total of 23 picks. now 23 divided by 4 is .20% thats not that well, yes a few others but idk. how many all rookies do you think we will have this year?

Teams are alloted 7 picks though. So, in that respect he hit on 4/14--which is 28%. He turned those 14 picks into 23--compensatory picks (which you can't trade) notwithstanding.

[MJZiggy]

Evidently not the only one, I have no idea why this was on there at the end of day two. But nice shot of Clowney smoking Leon Hall at the Senior Bowl.

http://www.denverbroncos.com?page.php?id=349&videoID=1801&type=broncosTV&year=&month=
Check out that vid! Clowney has an intriguing ability to shake his hips and turn around defenders. Wow.

But good lord, who was the high school kid doing the reporting??? Ugh.