Packers offered 5th for Moss and did negoitiate a new deal

[Partial]

Rob Demovsky for the GB press gazette says he has insider knowledge that they had a contract in place with Moss, but TT didn't offer a 4th, instead he offered a 5th.

If that is the case, this is 100% on TT.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I see a conspiracy theory. Could be true, but then you have Adam Schefter of NFL.com say that Moss would only redo his deal for New England, so what do you make of it? If Moss wouldn't redo his deal for Green Bay, then would offering more than a 5th have been prudent. There were also earlier reports (that I don't have the time to look up right now) that Davis and Thompson had a deal for a 4th in place, but Moss only wanted to redo his deal for New England. This could be like Watergate or the JFK assassination.

[Lurker64]

"Insider knowledge" eh? What exactly does that mean?

Didn't a lot of folks have "insider knowledge" that Moss was going to be traded for Aaron Rodgers back in March?

Realistically, none of this will ever be provable so believe what you want.

[Rastak]

I think Randy kind of chuckled in his press teleconference when asked if he would only negotiate with NE and then said that wasn't quite how it was...or something like that. I wonder if there's a transcript of his call out there somewhere, because I'm not 100% sure what exactly what was said, that's just my recollection.

[pbmax]

Mortensen of ESPN has said Moss told the Raiders he was only renegotiating with NE. There are also reports that the Packers had offered a fourth, but it was higher than the pick NE sent (110 vs 112 I think).

[Partial]

Mortensen of ESPN has said Moss told the Raiders he was only renegotiating with NE. There are also reports that the Packers had offered a fourth, but it was higher than the pick NE sent (110 vs 112 I think).

This guy said he has first hand knowledge from the Packer organization.

[Freak Out]

I heard on a few different shows that Moss would not redo his deal for GB. The only reason he did it with NE was because they are SB contenders and gave him the best shot at winning one. Its over...TT could not get the deal done.

[Partial]

http://greenbaypressgazette.packersnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070430/PKR01/704300516/1989

[MJZiggy]

What's your point?

[packers11]

Just heard it on WSSP... Ted wouldn't budge after a 5th round offer...

Its simple... T.T. only offered a 5th... Pats offered a 4th...

HMMM... If I were the raiders I would take the deal from the Pats... I guess T.T. didn't want to offer up more...

[HarveyWallbangers]

Did they say anything about Moss not willing to redo his deal with the Packers? If it's $10M/year for Moss and you aren't sure if he'll be happy and redo it, then why go higher? Seems like an apples to oranges comparison. We don't know how it went down. Maybe NE went a 4th when Moss said he'd play for $3.5-5/year and the reason Thompson didn't go higher is because Moss didn't give him the say assurances. Could be as you say. Could be totally false like numerous other "insider reports" we've heard this offseason. Probably somewhere in between.

[3irty1]

Did they say anything about Moss not willing to redo his deal with the Packers?

If I remember they said on ESPN Randy said that he wouldn't restructure for the Packers.

[retailguy]

What's your point?

Seems to me that his point is VERY clear. Good or bad, this ones on Ted IF that story is true.

(I've been against Moss all the time, so I think it's good, BUT all the Ted apologists are screaming "He did all he could". Maybe not.

It's possible that he "stuck to his estimate" and LOST again. Funny, how there might be a consistent theme here. If you continually "LOSE" in your free agent dealings, could it be possible, that maybe, just maybe, Ted is UNDERVALUING the market?

Something to ponder... :wink:

[Bretsky]

Just heard it on WSSP... Ted wouldn't budge after a 5th round offer...

Its simple... T.T. only offered a 5th... Pats offered a 4th...

HMMM... If I were the raiders I would take the deal from the Pats... I guess T.T. didn't want to offer up more...


Mute point as to whether Moss would restructure or not if TT was not willing to meet the asking price. I think all of these sources are equally credible; they are right sometimes and just trying to make themselve popular at times as well.

It would not surprise me if TT would only offer round 5.

[Bretsky]

What's your point?

Probably that he has a credible source ?

[retailguy]

Did they say anything about Moss not willing to redo his deal with the Packers?

If I remember they said on ESPN Randy said that he wouldn't restructure for the Packers.

Welcome to the forum! Good to have you here.

If I recall correctly, ESPN, and many other news outlets including the Wisconsin State Journal and the Boston Herald had this trade "done" multiple times.

From my side of the fence, the Green Bay Press Gazette is just as credible as ESPN, and in terms of the Packers, maybe more credible.

[Kiwon]

What the Packers did or did not do is irrelevant until Moss answers a straight-forward question regarding his willingness to restructure his contract in order to become a Packer.

Moss ultimately held all the cards here. The teams can talk until they're blue in the face but at the end of the day Randy Moss was going to make the best choice for himself.

Some press reports have him saying that he would only restructure for the Pats. This needs to be confirmed in an on camera interview to remove the ambiguity. The print journalists are unreliable at this point.

[RashanGary]

Drew Smith is fanline hosts between 9:00AM and 11:00 AM.

He spoke with REggie McKenzie and they said they were in the Moss sweepstakes to the end and it fell apart becuase "Randy wanted to play in New England" Reggie McKenzie is as high up after TT as you can get so that is very reliable info. Drew Smiht is alos a very reliable media memeber IMO.

It makes sense.

[retailguy]

Drew Smith is fanline hosts between 9:00AM and 11:00 AM.

He spoke with REggie McKenzie and they said they were in the Moss sweepstakes to the end and it fell apart becuase "Randy wanted to play in New England" Reggie McKenzie is as high up after TT as you can get so that is very reliable info. Drew Smiht is alos a very reliable media memeber IMO.

It makes sense.

Well, that's about as high up as you can get, but if your boss says "Here is the story", don't you think you'd say it that way?

Point is, we'll never know FOR SURE. But, the press gazette story matches what we see of Ted's personality. The supposition that he "held firm" with a 5th matches other things we know about him... You can't stop people from drawing inferences, especially when they are reasonable inferences.

[Bretsky]

Drew Smith is fanline hosts between 9:00AM and 11:00 AM.

He spoke with REggie McKenzie and they said they were in the Moss sweepstakes to the end and it fell apart becuase "Randy wanted to play in New England" Reggie McKenzie is as high up after TT as you can get so that is very reliable info. Drew Smiht is alos a very reliable media memeber IMO.

It makes sense.

It'd be cool as a fan to hear TT say I offered the 4th or I was only willing to offer the 5th; but it's not practical

It'd be great to hear from Moss that the only team he was willing to restructure for was the Pats.

It'd be cool to know why the deal feel apart weeks ago or if there was ever anything in place at all.

It sounded like Bellichek called Moss and did a bit of recruting and feeling out; that might have helped as well.

Bottom line is we'll never know; if I was a Packer I'd use the company line that Moss wanted to play in New England.

[RashanGary]

I'll go with a Reggie McKenzie quote before I go with an unnamed Gazette story.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Bottom line is we'll never know; if I was a Packer I'd use the company line that Moss wanted to play in New England.

Why would he need to make something up if the majority of Packer fans (this board notwithstanding) didn't want Moss anyways?

[Bretsky]

Bottom line is we'll never know; if I was a Packer I'd use the company line that Moss wanted to play in New England.

Why would he need to make something up if the majority of Packer fans (this board notwithstanding) didn't want Moss anyways?


Putting it on Moss is the most politically correct thing to do; it completely washes their hands regardless of what occured. I'd do the same thing.

[MJZiggy]

What's your point?

Probably that he has a credible source ?

The source may be credible, but read the article again. It says that it doesn't APPEAR like the Packers were willing to offer the 110 pick. It also never says that the pay cut he was willing to take according to the BOSTON GLOBE was a cut he WOULD have taken for the Packers. It was the cut he DID take for the Pats. The article also states flat out that they didn't know how far talks would have progressed with the Packers.

Sounds like hints and rumors to sell newspapers to me...

[RashanGary]

Yup,

Reggie McKenzie told Drew Smith flat out "Randy wanted to play in NE"

Either McKenzie is a liar or all the rumors that came out about Moss wantint to play for a SB competitor were true.

[3irty1]

Well I don't think he would have held out if we traded for him. And as long as he's not going to hold out then I don't really care how much he wanted to play here. It doesn't bother me if TT was worried about Randy's affect on our young players. Brett would have just broken three of his fingers in practice and he'd be all squared away.

It's pretty absurd to me that he went for a 4th round pick and TT could only offer a 5th? He should have made that deal, no excuses. I was really looking forward to a JS headline that read "RANDY MAKES FAVRE RANDY"

[Bretsky]

Yup,

Reggie McKenzie told Drew Smith flat out "Randy wanted to play in NE"

Either McKenzie is a liar or all the rumors that came out about Moss wantint to play for a SB competitor were true.

Does him wanting to play in Green Bay mean he was unwilling to play for Green Bay last weekend........five weeks ago ?

Believe what you want to believe; bottom line is we don't know.

Could TT have made a bold move to close this deal four weeks ago ? We don't know.

[motife]

Bob McGinn today :


Bob McGinn - Columnists and bloggers and many with microphones took TT to task. One thing. Moss is not a sure thing. Get that picture out of your mind right now of Moss killing teams inthe late 1990s and early 2000s. I did not see a second of tape or TV of Moss's play the last two years in Oak. But I hvae talked to many personnel people who have studied him. Not the same guy. Hasn't taken care of his body. Even more timid. Lost a step. If he was a sure thing the Raiders would have obtained a D1, a D2 or a D3. He is not the same player, and the Patriots will soon discover that. Plus, he is a jerk. A big-time jerk. He pouts. He had 12 on the Wonderlic. He's selfish. He's weird. He won't work out at your facility. Some teams would not want that around.

[Rastak]

Bob McGinn today :


Bob McGinn - Columnists and bloggers and many with microphones took TT to task. One thing. Moss is not a sure thing. Get that picture out of your mind right now of Moss killing teams inthe late 1990s and early 2000s. I did not see a second of tape or TV of Moss's play the last two years in Oak. But I hvae talked to many personnel people who have studied him. Not the same guy. Hasn't taken care of his body. Even more timid. Lost a step. If he was a sure thing the Raiders would have obtained a D1, a D2 or a D3. He is not the same player, and the Patriots will soon discover that. Plus, he is a jerk. A big-time jerk. He pouts. He had 12 on the Wonderlic. He's selfish. He's weird. He won't work out at your facility. Some teams would not want that around.



When I said that, I got called a troll!


I was just giving my honest opinion.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

No one will ever know.

I wanted Moss, but it's time to move on.

[Lurker64]

Bob McGinn today :


Bob McGinn - Columnists and bloggers and many with microphones took TT to task. One thing. Moss is not a sure thing. Get that picture out of your mind right now of Moss killing teams inthe late 1990s and early 2000s. I did not see a second of tape or TV of Moss's play the last two years in Oak. But I hvae talked to many personnel people who have studied him. Not the same guy. Hasn't taken care of his body. Even more timid. Lost a step. If he was a sure thing the Raiders would have obtained a D1, a D2 or a D3. He is not the same player, and the Patriots will soon discover that. Plus, he is a jerk. A big-time jerk. He pouts. He had 12 on the Wonderlic. He's selfish. He's weird. He won't work out at your facility. Some teams would not want that around.



When I said that, I got called a troll!


I was just giving my honest opinion.

McGinn's not a troll, he has a column. Do you have a column? ;)

[BobDobbs]

We can only go with our judgement as biased as it may be. It seems to me that Moss had a lot of say over this deal. He gets to play for a ring, be a featured receiver with a stacked team, and maybe get one more giant contract next year. I mean if he shows up and plays partially up to his capability and is credited with getting New England over the hump to win a championship he will be very expensive on next year's free agent market.
It is a gamble on his part, but I don't think that the Packers could offer him a better situation unless they took his contract without renegotiating. In my judgement he would have rather played for the Packers than the Raiders, but rather played for the Patriots than the Packers. This deal was not going to happen before the draft so the Patsies may have just sat back until the end so as not to start a bidding war. When they saw that the price wasn't all that high they made a strong sell to Randy.

I was ambivalent, but I did want him. I think some of this was desperation. The upside is that I have another reason to cheer against the Patriots, who I respect but dislike. That and we don't paly them next year.

[Rastak]

Bob McGinn today :


Bob McGinn - Columnists and bloggers and many with microphones took TT to task. One thing. Moss is not a sure thing. Get that picture out of your mind right now of Moss killing teams inthe late 1990s and early 2000s. I did not see a second of tape or TV of Moss's play the last two years in Oak. But I hvae talked to many personnel people who have studied him. Not the same guy. Hasn't taken care of his body. Even more timid. Lost a step. If he was a sure thing the Raiders would have obtained a D1, a D2 or a D3. He is not the same player, and the Patriots will soon discover that. Plus, he is a jerk. A big-time jerk. He pouts. He had 12 on the Wonderlic. He's selfish. He's weird. He won't work out at your facility. Some teams would not want that around.



When I said that, I got called a troll!


I was just giving my honest opinion.

McGinn's not a troll, he has a column. Do you have a column? ;)

Yea, I had one here! (for a short while albeit) :wink:

[MJZiggy]

Bob McGinn today :


Bob McGinn - Columnists and bloggers and many with microphones took TT to task. One thing. Moss is not a sure thing. Get that picture out of your mind right now of Moss killing teams inthe late 1990s and early 2000s. I did not see a second of tape or TV of Moss's play the last two years in Oak. But I hvae talked to many personnel people who have studied him. Not the same guy. Hasn't taken care of his body. Even more timid. Lost a step. If he was a sure thing the Raiders would have obtained a D1, a D2 or a D3. He is not the same player, and the Patriots will soon discover that. Plus, he is a jerk. A big-time jerk. He pouts. He had 12 on the Wonderlic. He's selfish. He's weird. He won't work out at your facility. Some teams would not want that around.



When I said that, I got called a troll!


I was just giving my honest opinion.

You are not a troll; you are troll lite. Keep your title straight there... :mrgreen:

[VermontPackFan]

Yeah, lets solve the big conspiracy right here on this forum...While were at lets figure out who actually shot JFK.

The bottom line is this: We are better off without Moss. We are a young team and now that Henderson is gone, a team without locker room leadership, sorry Brett. NE has a legitimate shot at playing in February next year and they have the veteran coach and strong leaders on the field that will force Moss to conform. NE, unlike Green Bay will have the stones to cut him if he continues to act like he has been acting for the past 8 years.

Moss is a cancer we could not afford to bring in, he is not the same player he once was. TT is doing it right by building this team from the ground up. Its unfortunate that Brett, unless he plays 2 more years will not get to see the benefit of that type of thinking. And those on this forum, who require instant gratification, certainly do not appreciate the long term vision TT has brought to this team.

[Bretsky]

If TT wins us a Super Bowl I'll worship his long term vision :lol:

[mission2]

i was as disappointed yesterday as anyone but come on!

no offensive individually but some of you guys are ridiculous clowns...

you are a football player, it's in your blood. that means that you thirst to win.

hmm, "i like brett favre" or "the patriots have a ridiculous team where if we dont win the super bowl it's probably all my fault"

tough choice there.

east coast: boston?

canada: green bay?

hmm.

who cares about all this TT garbage. it doesn't matter. the only thing that made this even a conversation is brett favre.

[VermontPackFan]

If TT wins us a Super Bowl I'll worship his long term vision :lol:


I think we all will...

[woodbuck27]

Just heard it on WSSP... Ted wouldn't budge after a 5th round offer...

Its simple... T.T. only offered a 5th... Pats offered a 4th...

HMMM... If I were the raiders I would take the deal from the Pats... I guess T.T. didn't want to offer up more...

The NE Pat's used their 4th rd. pick here:

28 127 New England Brown, Kareem DT 6-4 290 Miami (Fla.)

Their 5th Rd. pick went to Oakland:

28 165 Oakland (from New England) Frampton, Eric SS 5-11 205 Washington State

[packers11]

Just heard it on WSSP... Ted wouldn't budge after a 5th round offer...

Its simple... T.T. only offered a 5th... Pats offered a 4th...

HMMM... If I were the raiders I would take the deal from the Pats... I guess T.T. didn't want to offer up more...

The NE Pat's used their 4th rd. pick here:

28 127 New England Brown, Kareem DT 6-4 290 Miami (Fla.)

Their 5th Rd. pick went to Oakland:

28 165 Oakland (from New England) Frampton, Eric SS 5-11 205
Washington State

11 110 Oakland (from San Francisco through New England) Bowie, John CB 5-11 188 Cincinnati

That was the Randy Moss pick ^

[esoxx]

Wouldn't surprise me at all if Ted offered a 5th. Actually, I'd be surprised if he offered a 5th at all.

[woodbuck27]

Just heard it on WSSP... Ted wouldn't budge after a 5th round offer...

Its simple... T.T. only offered a 5th... Pats offered a 4th...

HMMM... If I were the raiders I would take the deal from the Pats... I guess T.T. didn't want to offer up more...

The NE Pat's used their 4th rd. pick here:

28 127 New England Brown, Kareem DT 6-4 290 Miami (Fla.)

Their 5th Rd. pick went to Oakland:

28 165 Oakland (from New England) Frampton, Eric SS 5-11 205
Washington State

11 110 Oakland (from San Francisco through New England) Bowie, John CB 5-11 188 Cincinnati

That was the Randy Moss pick ^

OK thanks. :)

I missed that.

[Bretsky]

Wouldn't surprise me at all if Ted offered a 5th. Actually, I'd be surprised if he offered a 5th at all.


It sounds like he's broken your spirits; short term that'd make two of us

[retailguy]

Wouldn't surprise me at all if Ted offered a 5th. Actually, I'd be surprised if he offered a 5th at all.


It sounds like he's broken your spirits; short term that'd make two of us


Three over here! Three! Three! Three!...

2007 is screwed. Course I've known that since a certain wife beater headed for Houston, and took my hope and dreams for 07 with him...

[packers11]

Wouldn't surprise me at all if Ted offered a 5th. Actually, I'd be surprised if he offered a 5th at all.


It sounds like he's broken your spirits; short term that'd make two of us


Three over here! Three! Three! Three!...

2007 is screwed. Course I've known that since a certain wife beater headed for Houston, and took my hope and dreams for 07 with him...

Four down here... :(

[MJZiggy]

Barkeep! Screw the kool-aid. Tequila straight up and follow it with a little Johnny Walker.

[retailguy]

Barkeep! Screw the kool-aid. Tequila straight up and follow it with a little Johnny Walker.

Can I beat my wife after I'm drunk just for ole' times sake? :shock:

[KYPack]

Just heard it on WSSP... Ted wouldn't budge after a 5th round offer...

Its simple... T.T. only offered a 5th... Pats offered a 4th...

HMMM... If I were the raiders I would take the deal from the Pats... I guess T.T. didn't want to offer up more...

The NE Pat's used their 4th rd. pick here:

28 127 New England Brown, Kareem DT 6-4 290 Miami (Fla.)

Their 5th Rd. pick went to Oakland:

28 165 Oakland (from New England) Frampton, Eric SS 5-11 205
Washington State

11 110 Oakland (from San Francisco through New England) Bowie, John CB 5-11 188 Cincinnati

That was the Randy Moss pick ^

OK thanks. :)

I missed that.

I've seen Bowie play a couple times, A good hustling kid. He'll have to bear down to make the league.

There a real cute article in the local paper about the kid. He felt he would be drafted, but at his size, ya never know. Next thing he knows, he's basically traded to Oakland for Randy Moss. The kid is baffled!

[MJZiggy]

Barkeep! Screw the kool-aid. Tequila straight up and follow it with a little Johnny Walker.

Can I beat my wife after I'm drunk just for ole' times sake? :shock:

She'll kick your ass...(they offer kickboxing in the gyms these days)

[Partial]

What's your point?

That it was 100% TT and NOT Moss. I didn't read the article, but I heard the interview. He said he talked to guys all the way to the top, and said that they were working on a deal with Moss in the range of 3.5-4, about what NE offered him. In the end, he says TT wouldn't offer more than a 5th and wouldn't beat the offer NE put on the table for Moss' services.

[MJZiggy]

What's your point?

That it was 100% TT and NOT Moss. I didn't read the article, but I heard the interview. He said he talked to guys all the way to the top, and said that they were working on a deal with Moss in the range of 3.5-4, about what NE offered him. In the end, he says TT wouldn't offer more than a 5th and wouldn't beat the offer NE put on the table for Moss' services.

Well, that's not what was in the article you cited.

[Partial]

What's your point?

That it was 100% TT and NOT Moss. I didn't read the article, but I heard the interview. He said he talked to guys all the way to the top, and said that they were working on a deal with Moss in the range of 3.5-4, about what NE offered him. In the end, he says TT wouldn't offer more than a 5th and wouldn't beat the offer NE put on the table for Moss' services.

Well, that's not what was in the article you cited.

Well, it is in the GB press gazette. He said it on Gary and Cliff today.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Do you know if Moss agreed to redo his deal if he was traded to GB?

[MJZiggy]

The article that Partial was kind enough to link, says that they don't know.

[HarveyWallbangers]

From Randy's website (via my fav, PFT):

from profootballtalk.com

POSTED 10:37 p.m. EDT, April 30, 2007

NEW ENGLAND WAS RANDY'S FIRST TARGET

In a release posted on his official web site, former Raiders receiver Randy Moss makes clear that his first choice for a new home was the place where he eventually landed -- the New England Patriots..

“Several weeks ago, when the Raiders first gave Randy permission to talk to other teams about a possible trade, the first team contacted was New England," said agent Tim DiPiero in a release. "Randy wanted to find a team with an established quarterback and coach, a team with a need at wide receiver and most importantly a team with a good chance of going to the Super Bowl. When you consider the genius of Coach Belichick, the brilliance of Tom Brady, a first class organization with the record of the Patriots which arguably had a need at wide receiver, New England was the natural spot."

As we reported on Sunday, it was an unexpected move by Moss to slash his 2007 salary by more than $6 million that finally got New England's attention on Saturday night.

The remarks from DiPiero also reveal that Moss had been on the market for weeks, and the release calls into question reports from Wisconsin suggesting that the Packers spurned Moss and not the other way around.

The Wisconsin State Journal suggests that Moss would have been willing to cut his pay to the same amount that he'll receive in 2007 from the Patriots, and that the deal fell apart only because Green Bay G.M. Ted Thompson would not give up more than a fifth-rounder, even though it's now confirmed that the Packers initially offered (as we had heard) a fourth-rounder for Moss.

The key difference, in our view, is the concession by the WSJ that the Packers wanted a two-year deal. All other things equal, a one-year contract is far better for Moss, since it gives him a chance to rehab his image and hit the cap-crazy free-agent market in March 2008.

So we're not buying -- for a nanosecond -- the notion that the Packers left Moss at the alter. In reality, the guy who once gave a fake moon to the Lambeau Field faithful finally showed his bare butt to the front office.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Not sure I blame Thompson for wanting Moss to sign a two year deal. Who wants to trade a 4th round pick for a guy who will likely play one year for you?

[Bretsky]

Not sure I blame Thompson for wanting Moss to sign a two year deal. Who wants to trade a 4th round pick for a guy who will likely play one year for you?


completely agree with that

we're not winning a Super Bowl in 07 so no need to give up a pick for a guy for a year.

[Packers4Glory]

I want to hear a logical reason why a 4th round pick for an established WR like Moss would be "too much"...really. that is the dumbest bunch of BS I've ever heard.

[BradStrand]

I want to hear a logical reason why a 4th round pick for an established WR like Moss would be "too much"...really. that is the dumbest bunch of BS I've ever heard.

Pretty sure you can find many logical arguments against Moss in any Moss thread...

I say who gives an eff. It's over now and Im glad I can go back to hating Moss without impunity.