Do or die year for TT

[b bulldog]

I am not a TT basher although I can see some of his misgivings and how they have cost the team. After this past weekends draft, many local media are questioning TT and now some of the national media are starting to do the same. This is TT's third draft and this draft will be a very important draft in regards to the Packers future. At years end, Brett will most likely retire and the team will need to rely on TT's QB to lead the team and also the D will be needed to carry a big load. TT has invested greatly on the D and will be the core of the team once Brett is gone. This will be a direct sign of TT's drafting qualities. If the team goes 6-10 at best, brett retires and the fans keep getting more angry, TT may be let go. If the team goes 8-8 or better, the youth movement starts to show promise and looks like a future contender, TT will be praised. I don't have any idea at the moment which way they will go but maybe we should all watch as many college football games this next season as we can because I'm afraid that we may be in the top 10 of the draft next year again. The turning down of the browns deal is crazy to me and if he only was willing to give a fifth for Moss, he got what he deserved. Come next season when the Browns are again in the top 12 of the draft, remember that we could have had that pick along with our picks. :cry: :x

[HarveyWallbangers]

There's truth to this--although I will say you could say the opposite. From what I understand from the offer is that they would have given us 2008 1st and swapping of picks in some rounds for our 2007 1st. If Harrell turns into a John Henderson-type beast, then he will have made the right move. He will have also gotten one more year of value of that beast also.

[b bulldog]

2,3,and 4 th rounders would have been swapped is what Savage himself said. We also would have had their number one next seaon.

[retailguy]

I do not believe this is a "do or die year" for Ted. I think he's got another season, AT LEAST, and may have a "moratorium" on that decision until one season after Favre retires.

There is ZERO heat on Ted Thompson from management for the 2007 season.

[Lurker64]

In my eyes, we can't lay Ted's first season on his shoulders alone, since a lot of what he did was dealing with the situation that Sherman left him, and we can't really evaluate the quality of his draft until Favre retires (since so much hinges on the Rodgers pick.) Only last season did Ted get to actually manage the team the way he wanted to (instead of dealing with pre-existing conditions). So IMO, it's next year not this one that's the really telling year for Thompson, and we're really going to see how well he's prepared this team for after Favre before we can really laud or condemn the guy.

I'm also not aware of any heat on Thompson from the management, only from a small but vocal part of the fanbase.

[ND72]

I love all these posts, mostly on JSO about this has to be a winning season or Thompson will be gone. it's beyond idiotic to even read it, much less write it. The Packers organization has complete belief in Thompson. And going 8-8 last year got him to at least 2010 if not longer. Harlan & Company know that GM Sherman screwed our talent, which gave us a 4-12 season. Thompson got us a 8-8 season. Next year, we're going to be bad, sorry to tell everyone, but our schedule is just screaming for a 6-10 type season. But Thompson won't be fired...but we'll have to sit through all those dumb posts next year with people not knowing why he isn't fired. And now I've wasted a short portion of my life responding to this dumb topic.

[Charles Woodson]

I love all these posts, mostly on JSO about this has to be a winning season or Thompson will be gone. it's beyond idiotic to even read it, much less write it. The Packers organization has complete belief in Thompson. And going 8-8 last year got him to at least 2010 if not longer. Harlan & Company know that GM Sherman screwed our talent, which gave us a 4-12 season. Thompson got us a 8-8 season. Next year, we're going to be bad, sorry to tell everyone, but our schedule is just screaming for a 6-10 type season. But Thompson won't be fired...but we'll have to sit through all those dumb posts next year with people not knowing why he isn't fired. And now I've wasted a short portion of my life responding to this dumb topic.

ugh, people need to realize we are were not an 8-8 team last year. i mean besides that last game against the bears, WE DIDNT BEAT a single team witha record over .500. Unfortunately bashing TT isnt gana change how long hes here (although i wish it did) basically what would be a good situation is if we demote TT so he basically handles only the draft and bring someone else in that will actually sign a Effing free agent

[ND72]

Iknow we weren't an 8-8 team, but to the organization they were 8-8...good luck telling any of those guys "eh, you weren't really an 8-8 team"...pretty sure you'd be dead.

and who did you want Ted to go out and sign and kill any money we have for nothing? signing any free agents this offseason would have been as dumb as this topic.

[RashanGary]

The Packers weren't going to go from 4-12 to SB competitors in one night. The base has to be built from the ground up, the right way. It takes a little time. Thompson had 1 below average draft and one really good one that could be great. We'll see how this one goes. I think Thompson has untill after his 5 year deal. If we're not showing signs of a young, potentially dominate team then they'll strongly consider firing him or I would think anyway.

[b bulldog]

I guess this was as dumb as your stupid predictions on Bush,Quinn and

[b bulldog]

Walker was the other and I always love your know it all tude. Bush will be opicked no later than round two! Quinn will go in the top 6 or seven! Walker will be a player! he still may but by the looks of things, most teams thought he was good for sh!t!

[b bulldog]

One more tghing, this was a question that was on the local sports radio show. The third year of a GM is very important, they now have their finger print on the team and you can evaluate all the moves the team has done under their GM. You are very foolish to think they are tied to him till at least 2010 for simply going 8-8

[Kiwon]

What's interesting to note is the lack of Sherman bashing this year (TT inherited a crappy team, etc., etc.) and the focus solely on Ted Thompson's job as GM. It's Ted's team now and he's being held responsible for the decisions he has made.

My prediction: If the Packers win only 2-4 games then TT will be gone. But if they win 5 or more (minus a seasoning ending losing streak) then I think he makes it for another season.

One thing TT has been consistent with is his draft philosophy and approach toward building a team. People may disagree with that philosophy but they at least have to gave him his props for being consistent.

Don't forget...hardly anyone thought the Packers would go 8-8 last year. We don't know what might happen.

[3irty1]

In my eyes, we can't lay Ted's first season on his shoulders alone, since a lot of what he did was dealing with the situation that Sherman left him, and we can't really evaluate the quality of his draft until Favre retires (since so much hinges on the Rodgers pick.)

BINGO The addition by subtraction of Ahmad Carrol was HUGE.


Iknow we weren't an 8-8 team, but to the organization they were 8-8

I absolutely think we were an 8-8 team! Ya we got some games handed to us at the end but we had some heart breakers in the middle too. It's undeniable that the pack got waaaaayyyyyyyy better during the season. Our defense finally started playing together!!! I expect them to know what they are doing this season. Our schedule was much easier last year but our division still sucks and I think it's very realistic to break .500.

[RashanGary]

Good topic bulldog. I think he has to start showing signs. The can't regress IMO.

I think it's important that the defense either be top 10 or damn near. He's put a lot of recourses on that side of the ball. I think if the defense is healhty and struggles Thompson will start getting critics from above.

I don't hink it's do or die yet though. I think he's got his contract and by then the team has to be much better.

[Joemailman]

Things would have to get pretty bad for TT to get the ax, and I think he's put together a very good defense, so It's not likely to happen. He will get at least 1 year post-Favre. TT has stuck his neck out with the drafting of Rodgers, and the hiring of McCarthy. The level of success of those 2 guys will likely determine TT's future.

[Lurker64]

I do think that this is a key year for Thompson in the following sense. There's no pressure from management on Thompson now, but this is the year that determines if there will be. If the Packers regress to 4-12 and look bad this year, there will be pressure on Ted Thompson to turn around the team NOW. If the Packers improve from last year, or even tread water considering that this year's schedule is a lot harder than last year's, then the first 3 years of the TT administration will get a pass.

But now Ted basically gets to do his job without pressure from his bosses, because they trust him. If he doesn't repay that trust this year, he might have a few more folks looking over his shoulder. Then again, he did do more last year than anybody expected him to, so that has to count for something.

[RashanGary]

He took over the worste situtation possible. Aging talent and bad contracts.

You're better off starting from scratch than starting as it falls. Like Lurker said, they just have to do better than 6-10. If they completely flop, I don't think there is endless support.

[Lurker64]

McGinn in his JSO chat did make an important point. Both Ron Wolf and Ted Thompson came into a situation where they inherited very little. Wolf got a decade to build a superbowl team, why are we expecting Thompson to turn the team around in three years?

If the team regresses this year, Thompson gets a shorter leash maybe, but he doesn't get fired. He's new at GMing and he's still above average, after all.

[Packnut]

Iknow we weren't an 8-8 team, but to the organization they were 8-8...good luck telling any of those guys "eh, you weren't really an 8-8 team"...pretty sure you'd be dead.

and who did you want Ted to go out and sign and kill any money we have for nothing? signing any free agents this offseason would have been as dumb as this topic.


You just don't get it and I really don't think you ever will. Did you ever stop to think that a great majority of fans are not content with 8-8 seasons and not making ANY attempt to fix known problems? May-be 5 and 6 years of sucking don't matter to you, but they matter to a lot of us. Players get paid to produce, if they don't they are shown the door. It should be no different for Teddy. Up until now, he has not produced shit. Yes that may change. He may turn out to be the genious you claim.

Last season all I read from you and the others was how to give TT a chance and that as long as the team shows improvment, we'll be all right. Well we were 8-8 and now your saying expect 6-10 and that's ok? Screw the freaking schedule and all the BS excuses. If Teddy is right and those of us who question him are so wrong, then this team should improve from season to season. Going 6-10 may be acceptable to you, but it's not to the majority of fans.

Last point, we suck in the red zone. We have for 3 straight seasons. This is not a national secret. I believe 3 years should be enough to fix a damn weakness. He has done NOTHING to fix it. I don't want hope and may-be. If we suck in the red zone again, then Teddy has to be held accountable.

Just because YOU say there was'nt any worth-while FA's does'nt make it so cause there were. Eric Johnson had 1 helluva year a few seasons back. He's better than Bubba and was signed for 2 mill for 1 season. No risk at all. Now, my memory is faulty at times but did'nt you and a few others here tell me you can't risk signing an injury guy? Yet now when the story fits, it's ok. TT just signed a guy who is just as injury prone as Johnson. I'm not debating his talent. He may be Gilbert Brown x 10, but the point is he had 1 good year and has a history of being injured.

Look, it's great we see things differently. It would be a boring world if we all agreed. Hell, I have no problem saying that I might turn out wrong and Teddy is a genious. I don't believe it but I know it's possible, but you and the the other Thompson backers believe your word is final. Bulldog had every right to start this thread. He brings up good points and no one has the right to insinuate that's he stupid for bringing it up.

[Packnut]

He took over the worste situtation possible. Aging talent and bad contracts.

You're better off starting from scratch than starting as it falls. Like Lurker said, they just have to do better than 6-10. If they completely flop, I don't think there is endless support.


Sooner or later the "Sherman card" you guys keep playing is gonna wear out. Sherman did'nt trade away our best WR for a 2 rd pick.

[RashanGary]

I think Thompson needs to show signs this year packnut. I think the defense needs to be very good. If they are no better than last year then I have problems.

I think 7-9 is the mark of progress with this schedule. I think they need to meet that or the ?? will start to rise.

[b bulldog]

Didn't Wolf arrive late 92 season and he took the Pack to the Suoer Bowl in the 96 season. One thing Ron had was a young HOF'er at QB but hye stuck his neck out to get that QB,i don't know if TT would do that. I am not saying he needs to go but with the fan base not real happy with TT and if we have a down year followed by another sub par year in 08, he will be gone imo. Joe you made an interesting point about the one year post Favre, I agree with you and I think that year will be next year.

[MJZiggy]

Eric Johnson had 1 helluva year a few seasons back. He's better than Bubba and was signed for 2 mill for 1 season.


Not to be nitpicky or anything, but might this have been one of the seasons when Bubba had a helluva year? Bubba stunk up the red zone last year, but before that he was impressive. Why is Johnson worthy for years-old production when Bubba isn't?

[b bulldog]

Nick I agree that a legit 7-9 is better than this past seasons 8-8.

[BallHawk]

Bulldog.....

If TT is fired after next year I will go to a forest, shoot down a crow, bake into a pie, video myself eating that pie, and post that video on YouTube.

[b bulldog]

It was just a question, I actually think his rope is long enough to get him through the 08 season if we underperform. The Browns deal that was offered really upsets me. If we go 7-9 next season and if we made the deal with the Browns, we could have had two picks in the top 14 and with our second rounder, we may have been still able to get Harrell although Denver,Chicago,Indy and the Chiefs liked him.

[RashanGary]

That bothers me a little too bulldog. He said he would never really do that because he doesnt' knwo how to rate the value.

I expect him to get together with his mathmaticians, scouts and closest confidants and get that thing ironed out. You can get some good value by taking future things away from desperate teams.

[Bretsky]

First off there is no need to call a topic/poster..etc...idiotic or stupid. Lets please be respectful whether we agree or disagree

I've also heard this topic on the Packer flagship station being debated. TT kind of got a free pass in year one by most fans; in year two he's shown improvement, but there are some red flags with that 8-8 record because of the end of the season powder puffs.

He's had two drafts in a row with double digit potential draft additions. After another bad showing of red zone offense, he still went against some of the glaring needs and chose a position that was showing a lot of strength at the end of last year.

I don't think this year is do or die, but those that are judging him should be carefully watching how this turned out.


Cheers,
B

[bbbffl66]

Iknow we weren't an 8-8 team, but to the organization they were 8-8...good luck telling any of those guys "eh, you weren't really an 8-8 team"...pretty sure you'd be dead.

and who did you want Ted to go out and sign and kill any money we have for nothing? signing any free agents this offseason would have been as dumb as this topic.
But wasting the cap space provided is equally as dumb.

[Bretsky]

Another Madtown guy; I wish I were back in school there; miss the keggers.

I wonder how many we have from Madison in here; I'm only a half hour away.
We should have a Visions Party :lol:

[Charles Woodson]

Iknow we weren't an 8-8 team, but to the organization they were 8-8...good luck telling any of those guys "eh, you weren't really an 8-8 team"...pretty sure you'd be dead.

and who did you want Ted to go out and sign and kill any money we have for nothing? signing any free agents this offseason would have been as dumb as this topic.
But wasting the cap space provided is equally as dumb.

im not defending TT but patler didnt TT in fact use all the cap?

[esoxx]

Just have to do better than 6-10??? Is that what it's gotten to now for the TT cheerleaders? Those are some lofty goals there. :lol:

[retailguy]

Just have to do better than 6-10??? Is that what it's gotten to now for the TT cheerleaders? Those are some lofty goals there. :lol:


Well, it's either that, or admit they were wrong, or are potentially wrong. Most of them would rather die on that sword.... 6-10 would be a GREAT season. Oh to dream.... :P

[woodbuck27]

I do not believe this is a "do or die year" for Ted. I think he's got another season, AT LEAST, and may have a "moratorium" on that decision until one season after Favre retires.

There is ZERO heat on Ted Thompson from management for the 2007 season.

I agree with this.

TT is just the fall guy. Doing what he"s told to do. He has his boss's.

Does he act as a sensable GM should? NO !!

Why?

See above.

The consequences will fall on his ass. Before that, it"s on our team (players and coach's) and Packer fans that must endure this mockery.

[RashanGary]

You don't usually strike venom in my direction as differetn as our views may be at times so I"m assuming that you are not intending this "unable to admit" thing for me.

I am very open to the possiblity that Thompson fails. This is a year where he has to show something. We need to have a good defense and the Oline needs to play better. Those are my expectations for now. If Favre comes back next year I'll expect playoffs.

[RashanGary]

I think we all should be open to the possiblity that anything happen. That includes you guys too :)

[HarveyWallbangers]

Just have to do better than 6-10??? Is that what it's gotten to now for the TT cheerleaders? Those are some lofty goals there. :lol:

Kind of a reach here. The thread is not what record you'd be happy with, but how well the Packers would have to do for Thompson to keep his job. I think he has this year and next (end of 2008) for it all to come together--regardless of how well he does this year. He was given a pathetic situation with an aging roster, no salary cap room, and little depth. He's far from perfect (FA signings this offseason, for one), but he'll get a little more rope to hang himself with the situation he was handed.

[retailguy]

You don't usually strike venom in my direction as differetn as our views may be at times so I"m assuming that you are not intending this "unable to admit" thing for me.

I am very open to the possiblity that Thompson fails. This is a year where he has to show something. We need to have a good defense and the Oline needs to play better. Those are my expectations for now. If Favre comes back next year I'll expect playoffs.

:shock: You talkin to me? I was responding to essoxx about 6-10 represents progress? I thought you were thinking 7-9?

I'm just laughing at all the "excuses" and "explanations". Guerski's got a damn hard-on for ol' Ted and is defending everything in sight, even quoting statistics about recognized rookies..... (As if that proves anything other than they had to play because ol' Ted waived all the veterans, or let 'em leave in free agency).... but whatever.

It's just laughable. It really is. NO ONE knows how yesterday's draft would go, but the ardent supporters are on their heels, duckin dodging and defending. Quite a switch from the past few months and I'm enjoying every damn minute of it...

(Wait 'till they see the line play week 1 against Philadelphia. I'm going to enjoy that too.)

It's really very funny. And, no, I certainly was not attacking you.... :P

[RashanGary]

I'm kind of looking forward to that opening game. I think this team is going to have you eating some crow. I see a good young team with dedicated football palyers who stand a good chance of improving by leaps and bounds. They were the youngest team in the league after all.

[RashanGary]

I agree harv. Cap problems is one thing. MOstly aging talent is another but both is just darn right impossible to deal with. He came in with some rope but this is year marks the end of his free period. The team has to show promise at the very least. I think they already do but they need to continue to show it and get better.

[Bretsky]

I'm kind of looking forward to that opening game. I think this team is going to have you eating some crow. I see a good young team with dedicated football palyers who stand a good chance of improving by leaps and bounds. They were the youngest team in the league after all.


It is going to be a challenging start of the season; if they can start off alright then it might be a fun ride

[Lurker64]

Realistically, it doesn't matter so much the record they have next year as an indicator of progress, it matters more for the long term how they look while they're earning that record.

If they go 6-10 but lose 10 overtime games against teams that make the playoffs, that's probably okay. If they go 6-10 and look bad doing it, then Thompson's going to have some hard questions to answer.

On the other hand, when they win it doesn't matter how ugly it looks, I'm hoping for 12 ugly wins, personally.

[retailguy]

I'm kind of looking forward to that opening game. I think this team is going to have you eating some crow. I see a good young team with dedicated football palyers who stand a good chance of improving by leaps and bounds. They were the youngest team in the league after all.

Nobody would be happier than me to have to say "I was wrong" as the Packers fight for a playoff spot.

Sadly, that's NOT likely to happen, and that kind of bums me out...

[Joemailman]

RG,

It almost sounds like you'll be disappointed if the Packers OL plays well against Philly.

[retailguy]

Realistically, it doesn't matter so much the record they have next year as an indicator of progress, it matters more for the long term how they look while they're earning that record.

If they go 6-10 but lose 10 overtime games against teams that make the playoffs, that's probably okay. If they go 6-10 and look bad doing it, then Thompson's going to have some hard questions to answer.

On the other hand, when they win it doesn't matter how ugly it looks, I'm hoping for 12 ugly wins, personally.

The record matters. A LOT. Last year they were 8-8 but only beat ONE team with a winning record.

People are trumping up how "good" we were and how much "improvement" we had.

In 2005 they were 4-12 but were in EVERY game except the Baltimore game. Yet that was "bad", and this is "good".

Can't you see the hypocrisy? It's funny, it really is...

[retailguy]

RG,

It almost sounds like you'll be disappointed if the Packers OL plays well against Philly.

Disappointed? No. Stunned? Yes.


I have a lot of respect for Jim Johnson, and he's got MONTHS to prepare for that game. He sadly doesn't need MONTHS.

I am very, very concerned about the line. Look at the schedule before the bye week, and match our OL to the opponents DL. I am VERY concerned about that.

[wist43]

Late to chime in on this... surprising thread.

The reason I think it's a surprising thread is b/c I can't really believe that the majority of posters in here would think that TT was on thin ice whatsoever. He's got a very long leash.

I expect the team to finish somewhere around 8-8, and after a tough start with the tough schedule, I would think the team should continue to show some improvement. That being the case, I believe everyone will settle down.

There's quite a bit of hot blood out there, based on some of the reactions I've heard on the radio and people I've talked to (casual fans).

Even if they finish with a losing record, I can't foresee a scenario in which TT could be in trouble.

[BallHawk]

I'm kind of looking forward to that opening game. I think this team is going to have you eating some crow. I see a good young team with dedicated football palyers who stand a good chance of improving by leaps and bounds. They were the youngest team in the league after all.

I'm on the same boat as you and it's sailing in a sea of kool-aid :D

[KYPack]

Iknow we weren't an 8-8 team, but to the organization they were 8-8...good luck telling any of those guys "eh, you weren't really an 8-8 team"...pretty sure you'd be dead.

and who did you want Ted to go out and sign and kill any money we have for nothing? signing any free agents this offseason would have been as dumb as this topic.
But wasting the cap space provided is equally as dumb.

This is an "Urban Myth".

Thompson has never WASTED A NICKLE OF CAP SPACE.

He has gone down to the end of the year with a small amount of cap and carried it forward to the next year.

The myth is perpetrated by the Anti-Thompson contingent on the net, Blogs and talk radio.

TT does a great job of managing the cap. I'd like to see him improve in some areas, but cap management ain't one of his failings.

[falco]

Its hard to say that the team is going to suck this year. They very well might, but in all reality how many contributors can you expect from one draft?

Most of the improvement has to come from within; if TT drafted solidly, then many of his second and third year players should start showing something this year.

McGinn made a good point; the only real loss was AG. Every other position should have a returning starter, and many of those positions should show improvement over last year.

[esoxx]

Just have to do better than 6-10??? Is that what it's gotten to now for the TT cheerleaders? Those are some lofty goals there. :lol:

Kind of a reach here. The thread is not what record you'd be happy with, but how well the Packers would have to do for Thompson to keep his job. I think he has this year and next (end of 2008) for it all to come together--regardless of how well he does this year. He was given a pathetic situation with an aging roster, no salary cap room, and little depth. He's far from perfect (FA signings this offseason, for one), but he'll get a little more rope to hang himself with the situation he was handed.

As for Ted and his job security, I don't see him being fired after this season under just about any scenario. GB organization is very patient, almost to a fault. I'm also not calling for TT's head. I'm just a bit underwhelmed with his offseason to date, but that's just my opinion. I realize others hold a different view.

I don't care for blind cheerleading though. "8-8 buys him to the 2010 season or later". That's pretty funny.

[Scott Campbell]

He took over the worste situtation possible. Aging talent and bad contracts.

You're better off starting from scratch than starting as it falls. Like Lurker said, they just have to do better than 6-10. If they completely flop, I don't think there is endless support.


Sooner or later the "Sherman card" you guys keep playing is gonna wear out. Sherman did'nt trade away our best WR for a 2 rd pick.

Well Sherman did trade our best corner away for a 2nd round pick in nearly identical circumstances. And sooner or later the "Walker card" you keep playing is going to wear out.

[Partial]

I love all these posts, mostly on JSO about this has to be a winning season or Thompson will be gone. it's beyond idiotic to even read it, much less write it. The Packers organization has complete belief in Thompson. And going 8-8 last year got him to at least 2010 if not longer. Harlan & Company know that GM Sherman screwed our talent, which gave us a 4-12 season. Thompson got us a 8-8 season. Next year, we're going to be bad, sorry to tell everyone, but our schedule is just screaming for a 6-10 type season. But Thompson won't be fired...but we'll have to sit through all those dumb posts next year with people not knowing why he isn't fired. And now I've wasted a short portion of my life responding to this dumb topic.

I highly disagree. If this guy sucks this year, and sucks in 2008, TT will be gone before the 2009 draft.

He has one more draft to prove himself. I think you're assuming he's on a much longer leash than he is.

Winning record in 2008 or he is out the door.

[Partial]

Things would have to get pretty bad for TT to get the ax, and I think he's put together a very good defense, so It's not likely to happen. He will get at least 1 year post-Favre. TT has stuck his neck out with the drafting of Rodgers, and the hiring of McCarthy. The level of success of those 2 guys will likely determine TT's future.

I think if Favre sticks around next year they deal Arod before he gets disgruntled. You don't draft a guy and let him sit on the bench for 4 years. Period. He will absolutely be gone after this season if Favre returns again.

[Scott Campbell]

Did you ever stop to think that a great majority of fans are not content with 8-8 seasons and not making ANY attempt to fix known problems?


Any attempts???

I think your posts would be more credible if you stopped exaggerating.

[Partial]

McGinn in his JSO chat did make an important point. Both Ron Wolf and Ted Thompson came into a situation where they inherited very little. Wolf got a decade to build a superbowl team, why are we expecting Thompson to turn the team around in three years?

If the team regresses this year, Thompson gets a shorter leash maybe, but he doesn't get fired. He's new at GMing and he's still above average, after all.

By Ron Wolfe's 4th year we knew they were going to be something special, though. We don't see that out of this team. Will we this year? I know not. Will we next year? It's very possible, but there will certainly be a setback when Favre retires, which kinda puts a different perspective on the whole thing.

[Partial]

Didn't Wolf arrive late 92 season and he took the Pack to the Suoer Bowl in the 96 season. One thing Ron had was a young HOF'er at QB but hye stuck his neck out to get that QB,i don't know if TT would do that. I am not saying he needs to go but with the fan base not real happy with TT and if we have a down year followed by another sub par year in 08, he will be gone imo. Joe you made an interesting point about the one year post Favre, I agree with you and I think that year will be next year.

My guess is he will not. He had a chance to move up, "stick his neck out", and take a shot on a very good receiver in Dwayne Jarrett. Someone with pro-bowl potential. He decided to take comfort in additional draft picks by moving down, though.

[Partial]

That bothers me a little too bulldog. He said he would never really do that because he doesnt' knwo how to rate the value.

I expect him to get together with his mathmaticians, scouts and closest confidants and get that thing ironed out. You can get some good value by taking future things away from desperate teams.

You can have all the geeks in the world grinding out their calculators. If Joe Thomas and Quinn turn out to be studs, the team is in the playoffs and will lose value on those picks. They are going to be able to run the ball with any team in the league to the left side of the field.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Jarrett? Could be great. Could be another Mike Williams. You're starting to sound like tank with your infatuation with the likes of Jarrett and Branch.
:D

Jarrett is far from a sure thing. I'm not losing sleep that Thompson didn't trade up to get him. Sidney Rice was intriguing. Until I see the two guys he drafted, I'll trust the organizations's instincts for finding WRs--after the last 2 drafts.

[Rastak]

Jarrett? Could be great. Could be another Mike Williams. You're starting to sound like tank with your infatuation with the likes of Jarrett and Branch.
:D

Jarrett is far from a sure thing. I'm not losing sleep that Thompson didn't trade up to get him. Sidney Rice was intriguing. Until I see the two guys he drafted, I'll trust the organizations's instincts for finding WRs--after the last 2 drafts.


Yea, I watched a bunch of Rice highlights and although the guy is really young, he sure had some nice catches. I know you slid in the little "Rice is always covered in his highlights" comment a little while back but when he was covered he still came down with the ball, and he had his share of open catches. Since I'm in pessimistic mode I'll have to wait and see but he's a tall dude that seems to catch the ball, unlike his buddy Troy.

[mraynrand]

He took over the worste situtation possible. Aging talent and bad contracts.

You're better off starting from scratch than starting as it falls. Like Lurker said, they just have to do better than 6-10. If they completely flop, I don't think there is endless support.


Sooner or later the "Sherman card" you guys keep playing is gonna wear out. Sherman did'nt trade away our best WR for a 2 rd pick.

Well Sherman did trade our best corner away for a 2nd round pick in nearly identical circumstances. And sooner or later the "Walker card" you keep playing is going to wear out.

I don't think the McKenzie and Walker situations were nearly identical. But I agree with your central point. A lot of teams have had to deal with malignant players. You get the best draft pick that you can and move on. It's a waste of time to lord it over the GM.

[Partial]

My thoughts are this:

TT turned over the roster almost entirely. It is going to take some time to see if the players he brought in turn out to be better than the players he sent away at the time he let them go.

That would be progress if he does that. Right now, I don't think they're at that point.

I think Rodgers is going to look like a stupid pick in retrospect, but it was impossible to predict that Favre would play this long. If Favre returns next year they certainly will trade Rodgers. This team would look a heck of a lot stronger imo if they had added another defender in the first instead of Rodgers, but I see why they did draft him. Also, you've got to consider one of the guys that should be reaching his prime(if he worked out) was forced into retirement through injury. These facts alone by him one more year.

Ultimately, since 2006 was really the year where he began choosing players that would be on the field and playing (rodgers, murphy weren't, both were early picks), I think that is the first draft he can really be judged upon.

I think TT has one more draft to prove himself, and two more season. If there isn't some sense of improvement or we don't see a true playmaker step up, its possible he could be gone. I would guess he has at least one year post Favre to land a playmaker, simply because we don't have any right now.

Hopefully, the first day picks from 05 (underwood, collins) take it to the next level and are the two starters at safety. Hopefully, Boston College corner becomes the best nickelback in the league and a great return man. Hopefully, Spitz, Colledge, and Moll each add ten pounds of muscle and all grow into their physiques more while keeping their speed. Hopefully, AJ Hawk takes another step towards superstardom and becomes a true three-down defender. Hopefully, Jennings and Harrell become good players with the potential to become great players.

IF all those things happen, then TT may have the makings of a championship team a few years down the road. Right now, they are not even close and have far too many things that have to go right.

If half of those things happen and TT continues to stockpile players, the team will be alright just by virtue of strength in numbers and lots of players in their physical prime by 2008-2009.

[Partial]

Jarrett? Could be great. Could be another Mike Williams. You're starting to sound like tank with your infatuation with the likes of Jarrett and Branch.
:D

Jarrett is far from a sure thing. I'm not losing sleep that Thompson didn't trade up to get him. Sidney Rice was intriguing. Until I see the two guys he drafted, I'll trust the organizations's instincts for finding WRs--after the last 2 drafts.

Dude Branch is going to be good. He is huge. I thought he was getting knocked badly for conditioning, etc. Lots of players are poorly conditioned in college. Why is this? Because their is a lot more to college than football. I am sure he was out their drinking, partying, eating late night pizza, etc. I can't fault the man for having a good time. I think he'll become a stud. He just has too much physical talent(and I agree you cannot rely on this solely) to be average.

[mraynrand]

About the central point of this thread. This is by no means a do or die year for TT. The guy has a five year contract. He's building for next year and the year after. I'm certain that he's not counting on Favre to be his QB on his remade tam. In fact, he's probably very grateful that Favre is staying on, because Favre ensures that the Packers remain a prominent team and, as long as Favre plays close to his best football, he's good for a couple of extra wins. This season all hinges on emerging playmakers . If the Packers get big years from 2-3 guys (like Jennings a RB and perhaps Collins, Hawk and/Harrell on D), they might be able to surprise some people. The difficult downside may be some of their aging guys (Favre, Harris, Clifton). But Thompson has plenty of time. Even if their record is poor, I predict he'll get an extra year or two just because Favre will retire and you have to allow some fall out from that. I do think it's interesting that the Packes did nothing pretty much at the QB postion. They have to be confident about Rodgers. and if they're right, that could make all the difference. If ARod follows Favre and plays more like Hasselbeck, the Packers could be in good shape for a long time.

[Brainerd]

Why should he get an extra year because Favre retires? Isn't it his job to plan for a player's retirement by having someone ready to take over?

He turned over the roster of the Packers to build his own team. Fine. It was his call. Getting an extra year to continue a possible failed plan simply because Favre retires is silly.

[Lurker64]

Why should he get an extra year because Favre retires? Isn't it his job to plan for a player's retirement by having someone ready to take over?

He turned over the roster of the Packers to build his own team. Fine. It was his call. Getting an extra year to continue a possible failed plan simply because Favre retires is silly.

But if it takes Rodgers a year to really settle into being the starting QB, but handles the role well the year after, you can't really blame Thompson for that initial year. I think that's the logic.

[Joemailman]

Why should he get an extra year because Favre retires? Isn't it his job to plan for a player's retirement by having someone ready to take over?

He turned over the roster of the Packers to build his own team. Fine. It was his call. Getting an extra year to continue a possible failed plan simply because Favre retires is silly.

The idea is that you need a year after Favre retires to judge whether or not TT has built a team that can be successful without Favre.

[bbbffl66]

Why should he get an extra year because Favre retires? Isn't it his job to plan for a player's retirement by having someone ready to take over?

He turned over the roster of the Packers to build his own team. Fine. It was his call. Getting an extra year to continue a possible failed plan simply because Favre retires is silly.

The idea is that you need a year after Favre retires to judge whether or not TT has built a team that can be successful without Favre.

So then we're on the 5 year rebuilding project. Great. It took the Saints 1 year with the right people in place. But I'm sure all the Packer fans will be patient for 2 or 3 more years of 6-10 records. Right?

[HarveyWallbangers]

Well, we were 8-8 last year. Personally, I'm not ready to write in 6-10 for this year.

[BradStrand]

TT shouldnt get an 'extra' year after Favre retires. He has made no illusions about the fact that this team will be built with defense. After Favre goes it will be readily apparent whether or not he has suceeded.

[Joemailman]

Why should he get an extra year because Favre retires? Isn't it his job to plan for a player's retirement by having someone ready to take over?

He turned over the roster of the Packers to build his own team. Fine. It was his call. Getting an extra year to continue a possible failed plan simply because Favre retires is silly.

The idea is that you need a year after Favre retires to judge whether or not TT has built a team that can be successful without Favre.

So then we're on the 5 year rebuilding project. Great. It took the Saints 1 year with the right people in place. But I'm sure all the Packer fans will be patient for 2 or 3 more years of 6-10 records. Right?

Tell it to the people who are predicting 6-10. It wasn't me.

[wist43]

Even I don't think they'll go 6-10... I've got them in the 8-8 range.

I think they'll be improved with everyone being a year older... that said, I don't know that this draft did much to improve the overall team, even though I think Harrell can be one hell of a player if he stays healthy (IF).

I really don't know where you guys are getting the idea that TT is on a short leash... he's on the 10 year plan (he can turn the roster over 6 times in that span!!!)

2011 is the earliest I can see him being fired... then we'll have to start over - again.

TT is a good enough talent evaluator that he'll bring in some good players and the Packers won't be a complete disaster during most of his tenure; but, he has no intention of ever working to fill out the roster enough to win a championship.

TT is on a very, very, very, very long leash... no way do they even consider firing him.